NationStates Jolt Archive

A small vignette in the epic that is our current financial situation:
Mr Madoff founded Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities in 1960, but also ran a separate hedge fund business.

Investors have withdrawn from hedge funds amid market volatility
According to the US Attorney's criminal complaint filed in court, Mr Madoff told at least three employees on Wednesday that the hedge fund business - which served up to 25 clients and had $17.1bn under management - was a fraud and had been insolvent for years, losing at least $50bn.

He said he was "finished", that he had "absolutely nothing" and that "it's all just one big lie", and that it was "basically, a giant Ponzi scheme", the complaint said.

He told them that he planned to surrender to the authorities but not before he used his last $200m-$300m to pay "selected employees, family and friends".

Under a Ponzi scheme, which is similar to pyramid schemes, investors are promised very high returns on their investment, while in reality early investors are paid with money collected from later investors.

If found guilty, US prosecutors say he could face up to 20 years in prison and a fine of up to $5m.
Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7781086.stm)
This isn't really a part of the financial crisis, it just happens to involve finance. Still, it inspires at least two questions: one, how do you scam $50 billion over a span of decades and two, will this discovery lead to more investigations in similar investment plans? Thoughts?

Whoa. A whopping $5 million fine, huh? That'll sting. :p

Why do Drug Lords and corrupted official get rich beyond their wildest dreams and the worse they get is either shot, or a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile those of us who are trying to make an honest living are either doing good, or struggling to pay the bills?

Why do Drug Lords and corrupted official get rich beyond their wildest dreams and the worse they get is either shot, or a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile those of us who are trying to make an honest living are either doing good, or struggling to pay the bills?

I think the world is trying to tell us to sell drugs.

Mr. Ponzi is smiling somewhere in the next world. As bad as this is, you gotta give him the points for it. $50 billion. Holy shit. :D That's success, baby.

Mr. Ponzi is smiling somewhere in the next world. As bad as this is, you gotta give him the points for it. $50 billion. Holy shit. :D That's success, baby.

He's worth about as much as Bill Gates, so lets see create a company simlar to the popularity of Microsoft, or sell drugs.....


hmm...

He's worth about as much as Bill Gates, so lets see create a company simlar to the popularity of Microsoft, or sell drugs.....


hmm...

I'll make the stuff, you sell them.

I'll make the stuff, you sell them.

Sounds like a plan, in the meantime we need to come up with a fake company to run the money through so it comes out clean.

Sounds like a plan, in the meantime we need to come up with a fake company to run the money through so it comes out clean.

Hmm...We could open up a Mom and Pop store, and let our grandparents run it. I mean who would ever suspect the elderly? Oh I know! A mom and pop store with a kitten/puppies section! We'll be unstoppable!

Hmm...We could open up a Mom and Pop store, and let our grandparents run it. I mean who would ever suspect the elderly? Oh I know! A mom and pop store with a kitten/puppies section! We'll be unstoppable!

FTW! Let's do it.

now all we need is a name for said company....

FTW! Let's do it.

now all we need is a name for said company....
Walmart?

Walmart?

lol! /thread

Walmart?

LMAO!!!!

lol! /thread


Agreed.

Why do Drug Lords and corrupted official get rich beyond their wildest dreams and the worse they get is either shot, or a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile those of us who are trying to make an honest living are either doing good, or struggling to pay the bills?

Cause god's an asshole like that.

Whoa. A whopping $5 million fine, huh? That'll sting. :p

Why do Drug Lords and corrupted official get rich beyond their wildest dreams and the worse they get is either shot, or a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile those of us who are trying to make an honest living are either doing good, or struggling to pay the bills?

Just to clarify:

The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged Bernard L. Madoff and his investment firm, Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, with securities fraud for a multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme that he perpetrated on advisory clients of his firm. The SEC is seeking emergency relief for investors, including an asset freeze and the appointment of a receiver for the firm.

...

In addition to emergency and interim relief, the SEC seeks a final judgment permanently enjoining the defendants from future violations of the antifraud provisions of the federal securities laws and ordering them to pay financial penalties and disgorgement of ill-gotten gains with prejudgment interest. linky (http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2008/2008-293.htm)

So the 20 years in prison and a fine of up to $5m would be in addition to repaying all illegal profits. Hardly a slap on the wrist.

Why do Drug Lords and corrupted official get rich beyond their wildest dreams and the worse they get is either shot, or a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile those of us who are trying to make an honest living are either doing good, or struggling to pay the bills?

So what does this tell you Wilgrove?

It tells me there's no free lunch, unless you inherit it. If you think drug runners make easy money you're ignoring the 'getting shot' part, they're cannon fodder in drug feuds. And corrupted officials were usually already wealthy when they went into politics, they just use it as a tool to get richer, so it takes us back to inheritance.

So what does this tell you Wilgrove?

That playing by the rules is for suckas?

It tells me there's no free lunch, unless you inherit it. If you think drug runners make easy money you're ignoring the 'getting shot' part, they're cannon fodder in drug feuds. And corrupted officials were usually already wealthy when they went into politics, they just use it as a tool to get richer, so it takes us back to inheritance.

I said Drug Lords, not drug runners.

I said Drug Lords, not drug runners.

It amounts to the same thing. You think drug lords just pop in out of nowhere or that they are actual immortal Lords with invulnerability powers? They can get canned at any time and they know it. Either busted or killed by rivals or backstabbers.

He's worth about as much as Bill Gates, so lets see create a company simlar to the popularity of Microsoft, or sell drugs.....


hmm...

Why not both?

NarcoSoft!

Why not both?

NarcoSoft!

Download the crack and the song for Guitar Hero, so you can play like your favorite rock star and party like them too! :D

Download the crack and the song for Guitar Hero, so you can play like your favorite rock star and party like them too! :D

It's the complete Rock n' Roll experience! :p

Why do Drug Lords and corrupted official get rich beyond their wildest dreams and the worse they get is either shot, or a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile those of us who are trying to make an honest living are either doing good, or struggling to pay the bills?
I'd rather be content and LMC than paranoid.

That playing by the rules is for suckas?

Well done Wilgrove. The only way to get ahead in life is to cheat, rip people off and ensure your network is as large and tight as you can make it.

So what are you waiting for?

If it makes it any better for anyone, the people he ripped off were all rich themselves. You're legally prevented from investing in hedge funds until you meet certain criteria as an investor, because they are by definition extremely complicated and risky products. I don't know the details of this guy's trading strategies or whether he disclosed information properly (the charges certainly suggest that he didn't) - but in general, when a hedge fund goes bust or makes big losses, no one can really claim to have been a victim.

For the record, I myself am enjoying the finance industry enormously, and I've never been around as many incredibly smart and inspiring people as I am now. They're the rich people I've always wanted to meet but never did in suburban Brisbane - the ones who actually earn their money using the best they have to offer. They have a board on the wall at the office where they collect all the really nasty newspaper reports about the firm I'm with, and we make jokes about them. If being hated by everyone else is the price for it all, I'd happily pay it.

For the record, I myself am enjoying the finance industry enormously, and I've never been around as many incredibly smart and inspiring people as I am now. They're the rich people I've always wanted to meet but never did in suburban Brisbane - the ones who actually earn their money using the best they have to offer. They have a board on the wall at the office where they collect all the really nasty newspaper reports about the firm I'm with, and we make jokes about them. If being hated by everyone else is the price for it all, I'd happily pay it.

lol, reminds me what we did when the company (and the same department) I worked for got the newspapers making crap up about how we wreck the environment.

How is the job going for you Leon?

Though there hasn't been any posts towards the hatred of rich people on this thread much is there? Something which I never understood why people do hate other people for working and earning more but whatever, if it makes them feel good.

Why do Drug Lords and corrupted official get rich beyond their wildest dreams and the worse they get is either shot, or a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile those of us who are trying to make an honest living are either doing good, or struggling to pay the bills?

because the world is inherently set up to benefit those with the initiative to cheat. For instance I have been skimming 10% off the jolt forum's gross advertisement income. and another 10% off Max Berry's book sales for years. and even if this gets me caught i will only have to give back .1% of the profits i have made.

Why not both?

NarcoSoft!

:eek:

Download cocaine at speeds up to Kilo per minute!


That playing by the rules is for suckas?

Indeed that is the way of life, so ladies and gentlemen, start breaking the rules!

Indeed that is the way of life, so ladies and gentlemen, start breaking the rules!

But if everyone breaks the rules, won't that become the rule?

:eek2:

But if everyone breaks the rules, won't that become the rule?

:eek2:

Shit, you're right. How's about I break the rules all the time and everyone else just break the rules every once in a while, to keep standards.

But if everyone breaks the rules, won't that become the rule?

:eek2:

no 99% of the world is too stupid to break the rules.