NationStates Jolt Archive

Well thats what one senator tried to do...

Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe


AP CHICAGO – Federal authorities arrested Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich Tuesday on charges that he brazenly conspired to sell or trade the Senate seat left vacant by President-elect Barack Obama to the highest bidder.

Blagojevich also was charged with illegally threatening to withhold state assistance to Tribune Co., the owner of the Chicago Tribune, in the sale of Wrigley Field, according to a federal criminal complaint. In return for state assistance, Blagojevich allegedly wanted members of the paper's editorial board who had been critical of him fired.

A 76-page FBI affidavit said the 51-year-old Democratic governor was intercepted on court-authorized wiretaps over the last month conspiring to sell or trade the vacant Senate seat for personal benefits for himself and his wife, Patti.

Otherwise, Blagojevich considered appointing himself. The affidavit said that as late as Nov. 3, he told his deputy governor that if "they're not going to offer me anything of value I might as well take it."

"I'm going to keep this Senate option for me a real possibility, you know, and therefore I can drive a hard bargain," Blagojevich allegedly said later that day, according to the affidavit, which also quoted him as saying in a remark punctuated by profanity that the seat was "a valuable thing — you just don't give it away for nothing."

The affidavit said Blagojevich also discussed getting a substantial salary for himself at a nonprofit foundation or an organization affiliated with labor unions.

full article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081209/ap_on_re_us/blagojevich_corruption_probe
_____________________________________



Can't we go one day in the US without corruption?

I guess not.

If even half of that is true, then good riddance.

Can't we go one day in the US without corruption?

I guess not.

nope corruption is bread and butter for all states, offices and parties.

Take that Yootopia!


Anyways, I think I might have prophetic powers. You see, about 3 am this morning I was typing up a paper for a class when I started to space. Well, when I spaced off, I started thinking about Rod Blagojevich and how corrupt his administration was, and I had an image of him behind bars. Well, it seems that I predicted right, because as of this morning at around dawn, he was arrested by Federal officials. What was his charge? Corruption charges. Imagine that...An Chicago politician that is corrupt.

Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich is in federal custody on corruption charges, a law enforcement official said Tuesday.
Rod Blagojevich is currently serving his second term as governor of Illinois.
.

Blagojevich and his chief of staff, John Harris, are charged with conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud and solicitation of bribery, according to a statement from the U.S. Attorney's office for the Northern District of Illinois.

Both men are expected in U.S. District Court in Chicago later Tuesday.

A news conference is expected at noon ET.

Federal prosecutors say Blagojevich, Harris and others conspired to gain financial benefits in appointing President-elect Barack Obama's Senate replacement, according to the statement.

"The breadth of corruption laid out in these charges is staggering," U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said in a statement. "They allege that Blagojevich put a 'for sale' sign on the naming of a United States Senator; involved himself personally in pay-to-play schemes with the urgency of a salesman meeting his annual sales target; and corruptly used his office in an effort to trample editorial voices of criticism."

According to the statement, Blagojevich is alleged to have discussed obtaining:

# a substantial salary for himself at either a non-profit foundation or an organization affiliated with labor unions;

# a spot for his wife on paid corporate boards, where he speculated she might garner as much as $150,000 a year;

# promises of campaign funds -- including cash up front;

# a Cabinet post or ambassadorship for himself.
(big dreams, eh)
The Obama transition team is aware that Blagojevich is in federal custody, but has no comment, according to a senior Democratic source.

The statement also alleges that Blagojevich and others tried to illegally obtain campaign contributions.

Blagojevich, Harris and others are also alleged to have withheld state assistance to the Tribune Company in connection with the sale of Wrigley Field. The statement says this was done to induce the firing of Chicago Tribune editorial board members who were critical of Blagojevich.

Blagojevich, who turns 52 on Wednesday, (happy birthday!!)
is in his second four-year term as Illinois governor. His term ends in January 2011.

Before being elected governor, he served as a U.S. congressman for Illinois' 5th district from 1997 until 2003, according to his online biography. He and his wife, Patti, have two daughters.

Blagojevich announced last month that he was forming a panel to review candidates to fill Obama's Senate seat.

Several Illinois Democrats -- including Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. and Iraq war veteran Tammy Duckworth, a former congressional candidate who now serves in Blagojevich's administration -- have been mentioned as possible Senate replacements for Obama.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/illinois.govenor/index.html


I just don't hope this screws with Obama's presidency. Furthermore, I REALLY hope that if Blaggo is to face time that Mr. Obama won't pardon him.

On a separate note, evidently Illinois is known for having corrupt governors:

-William Stratton 1953-1961 Tax Evasion
-Otto Kerner 1961-1968 was convicted on 17 counts of bribery, conspiracy, perjury, and related charges. He was sentenced to three years in federal prison and fined $50,000.
-Dan Walker 1973-1977 - Thought a bank was his own personal piggy bank to bail you out whenever he wanted. And was sentenced to seven years in federal prison. This was post governorship though.
-George Ryan 1999-2003 (still in jail)

I, for one, blame Chicago. ;)

nope corruption is bread and butter for all states, offices and parties.

I mean let the guy get in office before his people start going apeshit with corruption.

It was revealed yesterday that one of his close political friends had been covertly recording conversations for Federal officials investigating him. Here is something that was recorded:


Later on November 3, 2008, ROD BLAGOJEVICH spoke with Advisor A.
By this time, media reports indicated that Senate Candidate 1, an advisor to the President-elect, was interested in the Senate seat if it became vacant, and was likely to be supported by the President-elect. During the call, ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated, "unless I get something real good for [Senate Candidate 1], ****, I'll just send myself, you know what I'm saying."

ROD BLAGOJEVICH later stated, "I'm going to keep this Senate option for me a real possibility, you know, and therefore I can drive a hard bargain. You hear what I'm saying. And if I don't get what I want and I'm not satisfied with it, then I'll just take the Senate seat myself." Later, ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated that the Senate seat "is a f-ing valuable thing, you just don't give it away for nothing."



Stay classy Rod.

If even half of that is true, then good riddance.

its worse actually. he cut off state dealings with bank of America because they refused to make a bad loan. (considering the times of default loans I dont blame them)

He refuses to live in the Governor's mansion so needs a 6,000 dollar flight round trip to work every day.

has a 25,000 dollar club that those who donated to his campaign in excess of 25,000 dollars get special priority in contracts etc.

Typical Chicago politics.

You're too late, Zilam (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14288894).

He refuses to live in the Governor's mansion so needs a 6,000 dollar flight round trip to work every day.


Our tax dollars hard at work.

I mean let the guy get in office before his people start going apeshit with corruption.

its not the person who is filling the seat that is corrupt. it is the governor who is offering to sell the seat that is corrupt and he has been in office sense 2003.

You're too late, Zilam (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14288894).

I win! :tongue:

You're too late, Zilam (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14288894).

Ahh that jerk face!!


Thanks :p

its not the person who is filling the seat that is corrupt. it is the governor who is offering to sell the seat that is corrupt and he has been in office sense 2003.

as long as he's in the same party as Obama, the ever fabulous right wingers will find some way to connect it to him.

You're too late, Zilam (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14288894).

i beat both, but put it in the "who will fill the senate seats?" thread.

Good.


If it wasnt for this, it would have been something else sooner or later. I also want to comment on something Zilam said in his thread:


I just don't hope this screws with Obama's presidency.


It shouldnt to anyone who is rational (ie not just looking for reasons to attack Obama). Obama was never that close to Blaggo, hes always been closer to the other faction of the democratic party in IL, the one "led" by the Madigans.


Furthermore, I REALLY hope that if Blaggo is to face time that Mr. Obama won't pardon him.


I doubt he will.

Does the Illinois constitution have any provisions about removing a governor from office for something like this?

Good thing his ancestors ended up over there instead of here, or he'd be one of those old NSL wankers complaining about how new football is the devil.

Good.


If it wasnt for this, it would have been something else sooner or later. I also want to comment on something Zilam said in his thread:



It shouldnt to anyone who is rational (ie not just looking for reasons to attack Obama). Obama was never that close to Blaggo, hes always been closer to the other faction of the democratic party in IL, the one "led" by the Madigans.



I doubt he will.

So, if Blagojevich will face time, do you think the Madigans will seize the opportunity to take the Governor's mansion? Or might there be a better candidate? I would personally like to see someone from my side of the state be in office. I am just having a bit of a hard time thinking of who might be progressive enough to do well in that office.

Does the Illinois constitution have any provisions about removing a governor from office for something like this?

Nope, there is no recall function. The Illinois constitution could have been redone this year. Many of those in favor of wasting the money to do that mostly wanted to do it for that function.

If even half of that is true, then good riddance.

They have it on tape. The only problem is finding a judge that isn't corrupt.

3 words is not enough, Zilam. Not enough at all. "Life's a Bitch for Blagojevic". Now there, my friend, is a title.

i beat both, but put it in the "who will fill the senate seats?" thread.Doesn't count in this sense because it's not a thread on its own.

He refuses to live in the Governor's mansion so needs a 6,000 dollar flight round trip to work every day.

as bad as this was, it wasn't continuous and he certainly didn't work everyday

3 words is not enough, Zilam. Not enough at all. "Life's a Bitch for Blagojevic". Now there, my friend, is a title.


Damn you. Damn you straight to Detroit!

as bad as this was, it wasn't continuous and he certainly didn't work everyday

Which makes me wonder why people of Chicago even voted him in for a second term. He didn't do much work at all for this state.

They have it on tape. The only problem is finding a judge that isn't corrupt.

Not that hard. You are under no obligation to believe me, but my family is tight with many judges.

Just saying. Its not a "source", just a point.

So, if Blagojevich will face time, do you think the Madigans will seize the opportunity to take the Governor's mansion? Or might there be a better candidate? I would personally like to see someone from my side of the state be in office. I am just having a bit of a hard time thinking of who might be progressive enough to do well in that office.

I wont be suprised to see Lisa go for it next time around.

Until then, we're stuck with Pat Quinn (his Lt. Governor). Who will probably pardon him.

Which makes me wonder why people of Chicago even voted him in for a second term. He didn't do much work at all for this state.

Because Judy Barr Topinka was...insane. It should be noted that the third party candidate for Governor recieved a record number of votes last election :p

Directly from the FBI's affidavit:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/images/Blotter/Blagojevich_Affidavit.pdf

87. By law, after the President-elect’s resignation of his position as a U.S. Senator, which was effective on November 16, 2008, ROD BLAGOJEVICH has sole authority to appoint his replacement for the two years remaining of the President-elect’s Senate term. See 10 ILCS 5/25-8. During the course of this investigation, agents have intercepted a series of communications regarding the efforts of ROD BLAGOJEVICH, JOHN HARRIS, and others to misuse this power to obtain personal gain, including financial gain, for ROD BLAGOJEVICH and his family. In particular, ROD BLAGOJEVICH has been intercepted conspiring to trade thesenate seat for particular positions that the President-elect has the power to appoint (e.g. the Secretary of Health and Human Services). ROD BLAGOJEVICH has also been intercepted conspiring to sell the Senate seat in exchange for his wife’s placement on paid corporate boards or ROD BLAGOJEVICH’s placement at a private foundation in a significant position with a substantial salary. ROD BLAGOJEVICH has also been intercepted conspiring to sell the Senate seat in exchange for millions of dollars in funding for a non-profit organization that he would start and that would employ him at a substantial salary after he left the governorship.
88. Set out below are summaries of certain of the conversations referenced above.

He's in a shitload of trouble.

I wont be suprised to see Lisa go for it next time around.

Until then, we're stuck with Pat Quinn (his Lt. Governor). Who will probably pardon him.

Yeah, Pat Quinn always came off as a weak sauce to me. Definitely the governor's lapdog.

Wow..

Until then, we're stuck with Pat Quinn (his Lt. Governor). Who will probably pardon him.Just wondering: Since its the FBI that arrested him, would that mean it's going to be judged at a Federal level, and if this were the case, would an Illinois Governor have the authority to pardon him?

Just wondering: Since its the FBI that arrested him, would that mean it's going to be judged at a Federal level, and if this were the case, would an Illinois Governor have the authority to pardon him?

I suppose that Blago will call Obama, and threaten to say nasty things about Obama if he doesn't get a Presidential pardon.

They don't have to be true - Blago can just make it up, just to be an ass.

Just wondering: Since its the FBI that arrested him, would that mean it's going to be judged at a Federal level,

I think so.

and if this were the case, would an Illinois Governor have the authority to pardon him?

This is a good point. Honostly, I dont know, but if I had to guess, I dont think so.

Lets be honost with ourselves though. He probably wont do time.

I suppose that Blago will call Obama, and threaten to say nasty things about Obama if he doesn't get a Presidential pardon.

They don't have to be true - Blago can just make it up, just to be an ass.

Considering no one believed anything he said even when he wasnt a suspected felon (ok, he always has been a suspected felon, but never charged), I cant see Obama caving.

And even if Obama did pardon him, he wouldnt do it anytime soon, or hed risk the wrath of the people. Hed have to wait at least a year, most likely two.

Because Judy Barr Topinka was...insane. It should be noted that the third party candidate for Governor recieved a record number of votes last election :p

Oh yeah! I remember that election now. It was my first one, I believe. I didn't mark a vote for governor. I am not sure if that disqualified my ballot, but at least I left with a clean conscience, which I needed. Especially after the fact that I worked on Blagojevich's first campaign. I was so young, and naive back then.

I wont be suprised to see Lisa go for it next time around.

Until then, we're stuck with Pat Quinn (his Lt. Governor). Who will probably pardon him.


Governors cannot pardon people for federal crimes, which is what you're looking at here.

Just wondering: Since its the FBI that arrested him, would that mean it's going to be judged at a Federal level, and if this were the case, would an Illinois Governor have the authority to pardon him?

No he wouldn't. ;)

I think so.



This is a good point. Honostly, I dont know, but if I had to guess, I dont think so.

Lets be honost with ourselves though. He probably wont do time.

Well, as I pointed out in the thread I started, there have been other famous governors to serve time. In fact, George Ryan, our last governor is serving time right now, IIRC.

Considering no one believed anything he said even when he wasnt a suspected felon (ok, he always has been a suspected felon, but never charged), I cant see Obama caving.

And even if Obama did pardon him, he wouldnt do it anytime soon, or hed risk the wrath of the people. Hed have to wait at least a year, most likely two.

I don't think Obama would cave, nor would he pardon Blago.

That said, Blago will raise a stink that will last for some time in the minds of conspiracy nutjobs.

Which makes me wonder why people of Chicago even voted him in for a second term. He didn't do much work at all for this state.

because chicago votes democrat even if the republican party in illinois wasn't dead.

Illinois is something truly special in American politics. In all honesty, it would be more accurate to call both the Democratic and Republican organizations in the state by what they are--two different faces of the same criminal enterprise.

You could spend the next sixty years trying to plumb the depths of Illinois corruption, and you'd still be trying to find the bottom. The fact that Obama quietly moved the Democratic Party national headquarters to Illinois is quite telling.

I have a feeling that this next administration is going to have a very hard time getting things done, as they're going to spend a lot of time just trying to do damage control from all the BS that the Illinois machine is going to take to Washington.

I may be wrong--initial indications are that Blagojevich was telling a crony that "about all those people" (Obama's, presumably) were offering him was "appreciation", in return for Valerie Jarrett getting Obama's old Senate seat. Apparently, Obama's camp didn't want to play ball. Which may either indicate a lack of corruptability, or them being smarter than Blagojevich. For God's sake, he knew he was being investigated...

Well, as I pointed out in the thread I started, there have been other famous governors to serve time. In fact, George Ryan, our last governor is serving time right now, IIRC.

Yeah, but Ryan's serving time because his corruption got someone killed.

I don't think Obama would cave, nor would he pardon Blago.

That said, Blago will raise a stink that will last for some time in the minds of conspiracy nutjobs.Which will be laughed at by just about everyone else and discredited by reasonables like Colin Powell just like the bits about Obama being a muslim, madrassa raised Briton.

because chicago votes democrat even if the republican party in illinois wasn't dead.

Yes, I know this is true. The would vote in Satan himself, if he were running on the Democratic ticket. But its a good thing that Satan only runs on the Republican ticket anymore. :p

Which may either indicate a lack of corruptability, or them being smarter than Blagojevich. For God's sake, he knew he was being investigated...

Id say both. Even if he is corruptable (which all indication says hes not), hes definitally smarter than Blaggo.

Then again, thats like being faster than a guy in a coma.

Id say both. Even if he is corruptable (which all indication says hes not), hes definitally smarter than Blaggo.

Then again, thats like being faster than a guy in a coma.

What boggles my mind is that Blaggo was making fun of the idea that he was being taped.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Illinois is something truly special in American politics. In all honesty, it would be more accurate to call both the Democratic and Republican organizations in the state by what they are--two different faces of the same criminal enterprise.

You could spend the next sixty years trying to plumb the depths of Illinois corruption, and you'd still be trying to find the bottom. The fact that Obama quietly moved the Democratic Party national headquarters to Illinois is quite telling.

I have a feeling that this next administration is going to have a very hard time getting things done, as they're going to spend a lot of time just trying to do damage control from all the BS that the Illinois machine is going to take to Washington.

I may be wrong--initial indications are that Blagojevich was telling a crony that "about all those people" (Obama's, presumably) were offering him was "appreciation", in return for Valerie Jarrett getting Obama's old Senate seat. Apparently, Obama's camp didn't want to play ball. Which may either indicate a lack of corruptability, or them being smarter than Blagojevich. For God's sake, he knew he was being investigated...

You are so right about Illinois politics. Its dirty from top to bottom. I know this for a fact as I have been raised around these political figures. My dad was a Democratic chairman for our county, and ran several time for office. Anyways, even in a small town like mine(it has between 17,000 and 20,000 people), there has been a long history of corruption. One of our past mayors was involved with the killing of a prostitute. While that in itself is not political, the situation leading up to it, and the cover up of it. I don't remember all the details, but that is one small example.

Since it is so corrupt top to bottom, I would be comfortable with assuming that Illinois has the most corrupt politicians per capita. Of course, DC is a near second :p

Governors cannot pardon people for federal crimes, which is what you're looking at here.



No he wouldn't. ;)

but since bribery and racketeering are federal crimes when involved in the appointment of a US senator however is a federal offense and will be beyond ole' LT gov to pardon.

You are so right about Illinois politics. Its dirty from top to bottom. I know this for a fact as I have been raised around these political figures. My dad was a Democratic chairman for our county, and ran several time for office. Anyways, even in a small town like mine(it has between 17,000 and 20,000 people), there has been a long history of corruption. One of our past mayors was involved with the killing of a prostitute. While that in itself is not political, the situation leading up to it, and the cover up of it. I don't remember all the details, but that is one small example.

Since it is so corrupt top to bottom, I would be comfortable with assuming that Illinois has the most corrupt politicians per capita. Of course, DC is a near second :p


And lets not forget Chicago's Mayor "I AM INVINCIBLE!" Daley:p

You are so right about Illinois politics. Its dirty from top to bottom. I know this for a fact as I have been raised around these political figures. My dad was a Democratic chairman for our county, and ran several time for office. Anyways, even in a small town like mine(it has between 17,000 and 20,000 people), there has been a long history of corruption. One of our past mayors was involved with the killing of a prostitute. While that in itself is not political, the situation leading up to it, and the cover up of it. I don't remember all the details, but that is one small example.

Since it is so corrupt top to bottom, I would be comfortable with assuming that Illinois has the most corrupt politicians per capita. Of course, DC is a near second :p

You might consider that Chicago is only a microcosm of American politics.

holy fuck, what an idiot.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/rod.blagojevich.charged.2.883170.html
Throughout the intercepted conversations, Blagojevich also allegedly spent significant time weighing the option of appointing himself to the open Senate seat and expressed a variety of reasons for doing so, including: frustration at being "stuck" as governor; a belief that he will be able to obtain greater resources if he is indicted as a sitting Senator as opposed to a sitting governor; a desire to remake his image in consideration of a possible run for President in 2016; avoiding impeachment by the Illinois legislature; making corporate contacts that would be of value to him after leaving public office; facilitating his wife's employment as a lobbyist; and generating speaking fees should he decide to leave public office."

he wanted to make himself a senator because it would help him avoid being impeached as governor and offer better resources for when he got indicted and to set himself up to run for the presidency.

the stupid, it fucking burns!

And lets not forget Chicago's Mayor "I AM INVINCIBLE!" Daley:p

I think the Daley's are really the start of much of the corruption we see today. I mean the Chicago political machine has always been corrupt, but the first Daley really got those gears greased and going.

Yes, I know this is true. The would vote in Satan himself, if he were running on the Democratic ticket. But its a good thing that Satan only runs on the Republican ticket anymore. :p

i thought it was Jesus who ran republican...or is it Satan in disguise?

holy fuck, what an idiot.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/rod.blagojevich.charged.2.883170.html


he wanted to make himself a senator because it would help him avoid being impeached as governor and offer better resources for when he got indicted and to set himself up to run for the presidency.

the stupid, it fucking burns!

How delusional does Blaggo have to be to think he would have even made it past the first month of the primaries in a presidential run? I mean, we're approaching Bush delusional here

How delusional does Blaggo have to be to think he would have even made it past the first month of the primaries in a presidential run? I mean, we're approaching Bush delusional here

Worked for Bush

How delusional does Blaggo have to be to think he would have even made it past the first month of the primaries in a presidential run? I mean, we're approaching Bush delusional hereExcept that Bush's delusions about making it past the first month of the primaries weren't delusions...

Worked for Bush

But...seriously....Blaggo was a much worse and much less popular Governor than Bush.


Blaggo probably wouldnt even carry his own state.

holy fuck, what an idiot.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/rod.blagojevich.charged.2.883170.html


he wanted to make himself a senator because it would help him avoid being impeached as governor and offer better resources for when he got indicted and to set himself up to run for the presidency.

the stupid, it fucking burns!


Wow. I wonder what he was smoking while in office. Must be some good stuff if it makes him trip THAT much.

Worked for Bush

Bush wasn't selling senate seats. just running businesses into the ground, except the Texas Rangers they did well under bush.
and he wasn't that bad of a governor.

Worked for Bush

For all of Bush's incompetencies as president, he wasn't an awful governor. Blago is now, as governor, where Bush has gone in eight years as president. Imagine Bush as president for 8 more years; that's how bad Blago would be as president.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/us/politics/10Illinois.html?_r=1&hp
“The complaint makes no allegations about the President-elect whatsoever,” he added.

Good.
According to the indictment, while talking on the telephone about the Senate seat replacement with his chief of staff and an adviser, Mr. Blagojevich said he needed to consider his family and their financial struggles. “I want to make money,” he said, according to prosecutors. He then added, they allege, that he wanted to make $250,000 to $300,000 a year.

Mr. Blagojevich even contemplated stepping into the Senate himself, prosecutors said.

“I’m going to keep this Senate option for me a real possibility, you know, and therefore I can drive a hard bargain,” Mr. Blagojevich said in a recorded conversation with an adviser, according to the affidavit.

The authorities also say Mr. Blagojevich threatened to withhold state assistance from the Tribune Company, the publisher of the Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times, which filed for bankruptcy on Monday. According to the authorities, Mr. Blagojevich wanted members of the Tribune’s editorial board, who had criticized him, to be fired before he extended any state assistance.
What a fuck.

For all of Bush's incompetencies as president, he wasn't an awful governor. Blago is now, as governor, where Bush has gone in eight years as president. Imagine Bush as president for 8 more years; that's how bad Blago would be as president.

I hate Blaggo more than I hate Bush. When the other side is an incompetent fuckwit, it makes you angry, sure, but theyre not on your side, so it kind of vindicates your beliefs.

When they guy on your team is a goon, however...

I hate Blaggo more than I hate Bush. When the other side is an incompetent fuckwit, it makes you angry, sure, but theyre not on your side, so it kind of vindicates your beliefs.

When they guy on your team is a goon, however...

I think you raise another good point. For all of Bush's misdeeds, I still believe the best word to describe him would be incompetent. It's always seemed like he's done the things he's done by way of stupidity rather than malice.

Blago, on the other hand, seems chillingly competent at being corrupt.

Does the Illinois constitution have any provisions about removing a governor from office for something like this?

I think if he is convicted and sent to jail, they'd have to replace him.

so when blago goes to prison, does he become ryan's 'bitch'?

so when blago goes to prison, does he become ryan's 'bitch'?

Ohhh..The mental images!!!!!

I think you raise another good point. For all of Bush's misdeeds, I still believe the best word to describe him would be incompetent. It's always seemed like he's done the things he's done by way of stupidity rather than malice

i don't know, they seem to have had a good run of getting away with the shit they actually cared about. they got involved in a couple wars, brought torture into common use, and were even pulling off a blatant transfer of wealth to their backers and cronies until reality smacked them around.

it only looks like incompetence if you assume they have good intentions.

i don't know, they seem to have had a good run of getting away with the shit they actually cared about. they got involved in a couple wars, brought torture into common use, and were even pulling off a blatant transfer of wealth to their backers and cronies until reality smacked them around.

it only looks like incompetence if you assume they have good intentions.

So you're saying that Bush is smarter than Blago?

For Bush haters, I can't seem to get them to decide whether Bush is amazingly intelligent, cunning, crafty, and all that - or whether he's a fucking idiot.

It's got to be one or the other.

So you're saying that Bush is smarter than Blago?

For Bush haters, I can't seem to get them to decide whether Bush is amazingly intelligent, cunning, crafty, and all that - or whether he's a fucking idiot.

It's got to be one or the other.

I think theyre both dim. Its awfully close and I cant figure out who is smarter than who.

Its irrelevent however, because its like trying to see which is smarter, a rock or a brick.

You can be evil, however, and still be an idiot.

So you're saying that Bush is smarter than Blago?

For Bush haters, I can't seem to get them to decide whether Bush is amazingly intelligent, cunning, crafty, and all that - or whether he's a fucking idiot.

It's got to be one or the other.

bush is dumb as a post - ignorant, intellectually incurious, and arrogantly so - but has political cunning and smart, evil people around him to help get shit done.

So you're saying that Bush is smarter than Blago?

For Bush haters, I can't seem to get them to decide whether Bush is amazingly intelligent, cunning, crafty, and all that - or whether he's a fucking idiot.

It's got to be one or the other.

They're both imbeciles. Blago is clearly the much, much bigger imbecile. If idiocy were bodies of water, Bush would be Lake Superior, and Blago would be the Hudon Bay. Bush is not intelligent, cunning, or crafty, but he has surrounded himself with people who possess those qualities in spades.

Looking at this page of Blago headlines (http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-blagojevich-arrested-newsgroup,0,5218002.story) in the Chicago Tribune, I was amused by this combination of Top Stories and then the ad beneath ...

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1954/blagoadfw7.png (http://imageshack.us)

I guess if you can't sell influence, you can always raffle it off.

because chicago votes democrat even if the republican party in illinois wasn't dead.So true. How the fuck did Cook County elect Todd Stroger. He is almost as bad as fucking Blago.

Ohhh..The mental images!!!!!And I thought after Ryan that Blago would've been an improvement. Guess I was wrong.

And I thought after Ryan that Blago would've been an improvement. Guess I was wrong.

I would bet that most, if not all, Chicago politicians are at least half as dirty as Blago.

Since the 1970s, you've had three governors in prison.

I would bet that most, if not all, Chicago politicians are at least half as dirty as Blago.

Since the 1970s, you've had three governors in prison.

the thing that worries me is that somehow it all seems to work. chicago, cook county, and illinois as a whole are much more functional than loads of other places around the country. what if it only all holds together because of the rampant corruption?

the thing that worries me is that somehow it all seems to work. chicago, cook county, and illinois as a whole are much more functional than loads of other places around the country. what if it only all holds together because of the rampant corruption?

likely because if your bribing someone to get the job done you actually expect the job done. Perhaps we should embrace this model. and make politics much more capitalistic.

the thing that worries me is that somehow it all seems to work. chicago, cook county, and illinois as a whole are much more functional than loads of other places around the country. what if it only all holds together because of the rampant corruption?

That *is* what makes it all work. But some forms of corruption are less acceptable than others - bribery, for example, is almost always okay, but extortion is a bit less so. $500 to get you building permit approved in 6 weeks rather than 6 months is generally harmless, but 'give me $40m or I'll bankrupt your company" is a bit much. The line is somewhere in between.

Chicago: Best politicians money can buy!

That *is* what makes it all work. But some forms of corruption are less acceptable than others - bribery, for example, is almost always okay, but extortion is a bit less so. $500 to get you building permit approved in 6 weeks rather than 6 months is generally harmless, but 'give me $40m or I'll bankrupt your company" is a bit much. The line is somewhere in between.

also selling seats in the US senate is also a bit much.

That *is* what makes it all work. But some forms of corruption are less acceptable than others - bribery, for example, is almost always okay, but extortion is a bit less so. $500 to get you building permit approved in 6 weeks rather than 6 months is generally harmless, but 'give me $40m or I'll bankrupt your company" is a bit much. The line is somewhere in between.

the bribe-seeking perhaps isn't necessarily utterly detrimental to it all working somehow. but there is also rampant nepotism, money laundering, and direct payouts to favored individuals, etc., and those sorts of things should be horrifically inefficient.

the bribe-seeking perhaps isn't necessarily utterly detrimental to it all working somehow. but there is also rampant nepotism, money laundering, and direct payouts to favored individuals, etc., and those sorts of things should be horrifically inefficient.

but then the book keepers get paid off to make it look legit and efficient.

but then the book keepers get paid off to make it look legit and efficient.

it isn't about the books. it's about the actual experience of living there vs living in, for example, idaho or michigan.

it isn't about the books. it's about the actual experience of living there vs living in, for example, idaho or michigan.

that's your problem your comparing Illinois to shit holes. try California or New york.

it runs better than wisconsin too, though that one i blame on the crazed republicans fucking up an otherwise lovely place.

the bribe-seeking perhaps isn't necessarily utterly detrimental to it all working somehow. but there is also rampant nepotism, money laundering, and direct payouts to favored individuals, etc., and those sorts of things should be horrifically inefficient.

That's possible, but imagine what it would cost to investigate every nickel-and-dime crook in the city (ignoring for a moment that the authorities may be party to the corruption themselves). There has to be room for some of that stuff, even if blatant instances ought to be investigated. Most of it will occur regardless.

the bribe-seeking perhaps isn't necessarily utterly detrimental to it all working somehow. but there is also rampant nepotism, money laundering, and direct payouts to favored individuals, etc., and those sorts of things should be horrifically inefficient.

What, like Ted Kennedy insisting that Caroline Kennedy would make a good Senator?

Can't we go one day in the US without corruption?

I guess not.

Are you kidding? It is what you would expect to hear coming out of the US. Well third world countries as well but the US as well.

What, like Ted Kennedy insisting that Caroline Kennedy would make a good Senator?

political dynasties are a slightly different animal than the rampant nepotism i'm talking about, but yeah, that's not exactly a good thing. i'm not seeing the direct relevance - did you think i thought it was?

That's possible, but imagine what it would cost to investigate every nickel-and-dime crook in the city (ignoring for a moment that the authorities may be party to the corruption themselves). There has to be room for some of that stuff, even if blatant instances ought to be investigated. Most of it will occur regardless.

my point is that this stuff is totally pervasive, and yet chicago and illinois at large work.

*looks around the house*

I have $1.85 in couch change, a slightly worn jockstrap, some leftover chicken parmigiana, ten oreo cookies and half-eaten waffle. Can I be a senator please? :)

Are you kidding? It is what you would expect to hear coming out of the US. Well third world countries as well but the US as well.


Or New South Wales. Or Victoria. Or West Australia. Or Queensland. Fair go, BE, the Yanks don't have a monopoly on corruption.

Or New South Wales. Or Victoria. Or West Australia. Or Queensland. Fair go, BE, the Yanks don't have a monopoly on corruption.

Ssssh. Youre ruining the ant-Americanism.

Or New South Wales. Or Victoria. Or West Australia. Or Queensland. Fair go, BE, the Yanks don't have a monopoly on corruption.

Yeah true but we don't have it to the extent as the US, maybe WA being the exception. :tongue:

Bah, we've had it since the Rum Corps. We're as corrupt as anyone! I will not see my country denigrated! :tongue:

Bah, we've had it since the Rum Corps. We're as corrupt as anyone! I will not see my country denigrated! :tongue:

lol, ok ok we do have corruption, but I would still maintain that is not to the extent as the US, how often do we see Premiers* being charged with corruption? Or even our PM's?

*With the exception of Joh Bejike-Peterson of course and Brian Burke.

Yes, but we're a smaller country. Don't be so defeatist, BE. Go for Gold!

Staggering back to the topic, how do you guys see the role of the Chicago Trib in this?

Yes, but we're a smaller country. Don't be so defeatist, BE. Go for Gold!

Staggering back to the topic, how do you guys see the role of the Chicago Trib in this?

Well I am willing to accept that we do have some corruption within our politics. But I don't think we have both as much or corruption at the same scale as America. We have never had a PM go down due to corruption, whereas the US has seen a President go down. Even taking size into account we don't have the same proportion of corruption as the US, and very rarely see our government leaders or even ministers be hit. We might see one or two backbenchers and we do see it in the local councils.

Let's carry this one on elsewhere -- maybe in the "Australians whinge about their government" thread? It'd be cruel to wander away from a topic as juicy as the Blagojevich thing.

(Besides, I don't want to upset KoL. He's already told me to stop.)

(Besides, I don't want to upset KoL. He's already told me to stop.)

Reread what I read Your Modness, I was being snarky;)
EDIT: Or maybe you did get it and Im a retard? :p

MODEDIT: Never! :D

Yeah fair enough in fact I have been meaning to ask you about something in your thread. And KoL it wasn't really an anti-american thing I was making out there I'm not trying to be cool.

What is everyone complaining about? He's just saying out loud what every other senate appointer is thinking. His honesty about his dishonesty is to be commended.

wait a minute, that didn't sound right. *goes to load rifle* Time to seriously consider rebooting this system.