NationStates Jolt Archive

Death is terrifying to lots of people, yet others are not phased. How do y'all feel?

Personally I'm not too worried. I'm not entirely sure about what's going to happen when I do die, but it's going to happen whether I think one thing or another.

Poll coming.

I'm scared of dying in a painful way, not so much Of Old Age.

I'm scared of dying in a painful way, not so much Of Old Age.

I didn't even think of that.. Just had death on my mind. Oh well.

I agree though. A painful death wouldn't be ideal.

I don't think I'm afraid of dying. I just don't want to any time soon.

On an instinctual level yes, on an intellectual level no. Death is inevitable, might even be interesting.

Death is the last great adventure....... aw crap. I think that was said in Hook. :(

I'm not afraid of dying, old age or painful. What I am afraid of is dying alone, with nobody to care.

nope. i'm scared of pain, but death to me is just not scary

Yes, ridiculously so. Which is why I won't take part in any activity that involves any significant degree of risk whatsover. Just one of the things that makes me such an awesome and fun person to be around :p

i'm not scared either if i die all my problems are gone nothing to worry about

A nurse once told me that it was funny people were afraid of death when so much worse could happen.

There's paralysis, loss of limbs, slow, painful, miserable cancer, a host of opportunities for your life to completely suck.

Death should be the least of your worries.

No. I do like the idea of reincarnation, though.

A nurse once told me that it was funny people were afraid of death when so much worse could happen.

There's paralysis, loss of limbs, slow, painful, miserable cancer.

Death should be the least of your worries.



that nurse is totally right

A nurse once told me that it was funny people were afraid of death when so much worse could happen.

There's paralysis, loss of limbs, slow, painful, miserable cancer, a host of opportunities for your life to completely suck.

Death should be the least of your worries.

I dunno. I can understand people who are more afraid of eternal nothingness. To some people clinging to life, no matter how unbearable, is more pleasant than nothing.

i can live with eternal nothingness

i can live with eternal nothingness

Strange irony that..

I'm not really scared of my own death. It will happen eventually. But I am terrified of the death of my loved ones. I don't know how I will react when my mum is gone or my grandparents.

i can live with eternal nothingness cause you cant have problems when there is nothing

I'm not really scared of my own death. It will happen eventually. But I am terrified of the death of my loved ones. I don't know how I will react when my mum is gone or my grandparents.

Hmm good point. Losing loved ones is always hard.

On a lighter note -- well done on 10k posts! :hail:

thats true its hard

I dunno. I can understand people who are more afraid of eternal nothingness. To some people clinging to life, no matter how unbearable, is more pleasant than nothing.

Yes, I'm not sure I've actually ever met one though, it does seem an iconic image in my mind however, perhaps from war movies or something.

I remember my grandma being quite content to pop her clogs, I've known/know terminal cancer patients who'd quite happily pull the plug but none who really 'clung to life' out of anything other than an odd tenacious habit, that dying is undignified in some way.

The fear of dying for me is that I'd miss so much of what's going on, like getting to exciting parts of a book only to find the ending ripped out, not so much fear as opposed to 'aww, really, now?'

Not looking forward to it, but since it's inevitable, I don't think I'm that scared. I do, however, want to postpone it! After all, I just received my university diploma today and the real life is about to begin soon. :D

Yes, I'm not sure I've actually ever met one though, it does seem an iconic image in my mind however, perhaps from war movies or something.

No, neither have I. There have been people who do fight off death for much longer than everyone expects though -- quite like my granddad. He got put in a hospice and we, and the doctors, thought he would be done in a few days, but he lasted a good week.. Then again I also think he would be the last person to be afraid of death!

I remember my grandma being quite content to pop her clogs, I've known/know terminal cancer patients who'd quite happily pull the plug but none who really 'clung to life' out of anything other than an odd tenacious habit, that dying is undignified in some way.

The fear of dying for me is that I'd miss so much of what's going on, like getting to exciting parts of a book only to find the ending ripped out, not so much fear as opposed to 'aww, really, now?'

True.. Especially dying at a young age. So much fun to be had living!

Not looking forward to it, but since it's inevitable, I don't think I'm that scared. I do, however, want to postpone it! After all, I just received my university diploma today and the real life is about to begin soon. :D

Ahh well done. I noticed lots of people today all decked out in their graduation gear as well! They always look so happy, heh.

That'll be me in 5-6years, hope I get through to then..

Not looking forward to it, but since it's inevitable, I don't think I'm that scared. I do, however, want to postpone it! After all, I just received my university diploma today and the real life is about to begin soon. :D

Welcome to real life, may whatever god you fear have mercy on your immortal soul.

I mean, congratulations mate! I hope you do better than I have... I mean I sincerely hope that you don't get f... I mean... May life be long and fulfilling.

I'm not afraid of the actual act of dying. I'm afraid of having it happen anytime soon, though.

It scares the heck out of me. But I'll tell you what's worse: watching all the older members of your family go before you.

Yes, I'm not sure I've actually ever met one though, it does seem an iconic image in my mind however, perhaps from war movies or something.

I remember my grandma being quite content to pop her clogs, I've known/know terminal cancer patients who'd quite happily pull the plug but none who really 'clung to life' out of anything other than an odd tenacious habit, that dying is undignified in some way.

The fear of dying for me is that I'd miss so much of what's going on, like getting to exciting parts of a book only to find the ending ripped out, not so much fear as opposed to 'aww, really, now?'
quite often children cling to the life of their dying parent. keeping one alive well past any hope of recovery. they get afraid that if they "let" mama die that they are terrible children who never loved her.

its more common with children who never paid any attention to mama before she was on death's door.

my nephew's 92 year old grandmother (no relation to me whatsoever) is fond of asking why god makes her keep on living when she is ready to go any time.

Death is one of the few things that scares me.

I dunno. I can understand people who are more afraid of eternal nothingness. To some people clinging to life, no matter how unbearable, is more pleasant than nothing.

I believe in eternal nothingness after death. And that is far more compelling to me than any idea of heaven I've encountered.

I believe in reincarnation, so no. It would, however, be a hassle to have to relearn everything I picked up over the past 29 years, so it's something I'd rather avoid.

I'd be more disappointed than scared when my time comes, methinks.

Death is terrifying to lots of people, yet others are not phased. How do y'all feel?


I'm not scared by death itself. I'm scared by old age and by pain.
I'd merely wish I could live longer, with my mind and body fully working etc: but this cannot be forever, death will take me someday, so amen.

The only time I'm scared of death is when it comes to breathing. I have an acute fear of stopping breathing, and knowing it. Anything else I could care less. There's just something about knowing you can't breathe and you're going to die...

Nope, death is nothing but gain for me.

No I'm not scared because I believe in Jesus Christ! :hail:

No, there are two instances I can think of where I thought I was about to die, and I took it calmly.

I've almost drowned once. But, death doesn't scare me. Nor, am I suicidal. And, 1000 posts!

No I'm not scared because I believe in Jesus Christ! :hail:

http://www.emofaces.com/en/smilies/t/thumbs-up-smile.gif hehe

I'd rather feel something, even if it was suffering than feel nothing at all.

Nope, death is nothing but gain for me.
Unless you end up in Hell for that terrible thread title of yours :tongue:

Well, to make a very vicious joke, intellectually I'm not afraid of dying at all, but practically, for some reason I keep calling Poison Control just in time.

While the above is not true, it in some sense reflects my own sense of mortality. I don't have many friends or family or a validating job, and I've lost faith that I can really make much of a difference in the world or that any of the above will change. So there's not much reason abstractly for me to keep living, since I don't have a lot to live for. That being said, I strongly suspect that if someone pulled a knife on me and tried to actively end my life, I'd fight tooth and nail to preserve it.

Got Jesus?

Got Jesus?

No.

No.

If you ever decide you want him. All you need to do is ask him to save you from the death that many here are afraid of!:);)

If you ever decide you want him. All you need to do is ask him to save you from the death that many here are afraid of!:);)

I dont want him. Im also not afraid of death.

If you ever decide you want him. All you need to do is ask him to save you from the death that many here are afraid of!:);)

I would like to point out, and I don't mean to sidetrack the thread, that being a follower of Christ is more than the avoidance of an eternal death. Its about starting new life new. Its not cheap faith. Its a disciplined, hard lifestyle.

I'm not entirely scared of death. There are much worse things than dying. However, I am scared of what happens afterward -- because the only people who know can't tell us.

no Iam not scared about going home

If you ever decide you want him. All you need to do is ask him to save you from the death that many here are afraid of!:);)

Ok, I've just asked him, but he's not replied yet. Is he playing hard to get?

I don't think I'm scared of death. I've nearly been there and all I did was crack jokes they say.

I would be rather pissed off though if I went because of old age in my sleep or something. How fun is that? Going quietly in the night? What if I had a list of shit to do the next day but instead I wake up dead? At least if I was shot/maimed/horribly burned I could go, "well, from the looks of things I'm fucked so screw that list of shit I have to do." But then, I don't like to think I won't die on my own terms. So if I fall and break my neck again, it will probably be because I fell on purpose.

I'm not scared of death, but I am scared of the pain associated with some ways of dying.

Very very slightly.

{{{hugs}}} for Peisandros.

I would be rather pissed off though if I went because of old age in my sleep or something. How fun is that? Going quietly in the night? What if I had a list of shit to do the next day but instead I wake up dead? At least if I was shot/maimed/horribly burned I could go, "well, from the looks of things I'm fucked so screw that list of shit I have to do." But then, I don't like to think I won't die on my own terms. So if I fall and break my neck again, it will probably be because I fell on purpose.What if you die and realize you aren't wearing clean underwear?

I mean, like everybody I'm pretty much planning on living indefinitely, but if I die it doesn't bother me at all. Way I figure it, things can't get much worse unless I wind up in Hell, and that seems like a remote possibility. I just want to make sure I'm dead in as painless a manner as possible...that's the part that really sucks, but even it doesn't scare me.

I would like to point out, and I don't mean to sidetrack the thread, that being a follower of Christ is more than the avoidance of an eternal death. Its about starting new life new. Its not cheap faith. Its a disciplined, hard lifestyle.

It is for you, but not for everyone--not for a lot of people.

{{{hugs}}} for Peisandros.

What if you die and realize you aren't wearing clean underwear?

I don't think clean underwear has much bearing on ones death. Especially if it was a messy death.

I don't think clean underwear has much bearing on ones death. Especially if it was a messy death.I dunno, I think the people that handle the bodies and whatnot like to laugh at dead people with dirty underwear. Or boners. Don't get a boner after you die.

I dunno, I think the people that handle the bodies and whatnot like to laugh at dead people with dirty underwear. Or boners. Don't get a boner after you die.

If you can't laugh at yourself first, what can you laugh at? I'm going to have a massive boner when I die. Not out of spite, but because it would be hilarious.

Of course it scares me. Like anyone else, we don't know what happens to us when we die. Us being our mind, spirit, 'soul', etc. However, its a fact of life, and when it comes, I will face it as I face life.

{{{hugs}}} for Peisandros.

:fluffle:

But why!?

"Become accustomed to the idea that death is nothing to us. For all good and evil consists in sensation, but death is deprivation of sensation. And therefore a right understanding that death is nothing to us makes the mortality of life enjoyable, not because it adds to it an infinite span of time, but because it takes away the craving for immortality. For there is nothing terrible in life for the man who has truly comprehended that there is nothing terrible in not living. Death does not then concern either the living or the dead, since for the former it is not, and the latter are no more."

:fluffle:

But why!?Mostly connecting this to something you said a couple weeks ago about cancer.

Mostly connecting this to something you said a couple weeks ago about cancer.

Oh true. Yeah, thanks. But no. I'm 100% fine now.

Although this is kinda based on that :).

Oh true. Yeah, thanks. But no. I'm 100% fine now.

Although this is kinda based on that :).I figured you'd have questioned your mortality at some point. It's good to hear you've recovered, though.

I figured you'd have questioned your mortality at some point. It's good to hear you've recovered, though.

Indeed.. My survival rates were above 90%, but the thought was "what about the other 10%, what if it's me".. Once I started chemo though, it was above 95% and I started thinking more about getting on with life rather than dying.

I guess any near-death experience (or sickness) leads to one thinking about stuff a bit more.

Ok, I've just asked him, but he's not replied yet. Is he playing hard to get?

http://broccolicity.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/6a00e5517e1cba883300e55225bba68834-800wi.jpg

I'm not looking forward to death or aging particularly, but I don't fear it.

Indeed.. My survival rates were above 90%, but the thought was "what about the other 10%, what if it's me".. Once I started chemo though, it was above 95% and I started thinking more about getting on with life rather than dying.

I guess any near-death experience (or sickness) leads to one thinking about stuff a bit more.

"[Cancer patients] are lucky. We have two lives: our life before we had cancer, and our life after, when we finally understand life with the correct perspective."
Paraphrased from something I forget, but I think it was a TV show...

As long as I believe what I believe, then there is no need to fear death. It wasn't always like that.

"[Cancer patients] are lucky. We have two lives: our life before we had cancer, and our life after, when we finally understand life with the correct perspective."
Paraphrased from something I forget, but I think it was a TV show...

Yeah, sounds about right. Good quote/paraphrashing, that.

Yeah, sounds about right. Good quote/paraphrashing, that.

It was that or the first sentence from "Living Time", "So this is how I die"...but that seems morbid ;)

The event? No.

The process? Yes.

How can I dare understand death,when I yet cannot grasp the meaning/point of life?


Neverless I suppose dying is not something I want to think about yet,I young enough to think 30 is old for god sakes.

Death is inevitable so why be afraid? I'd even like it if i died for a noble and great cause.

"All men die, but few men really live"

-Braveheart (just a movie and historically innacurate but i totally agree)

No way. In many ways I'm looking forward to it.

Not to start anything, but it's not the dying that scares me.
It's what's beyond that. What's after it? If there is no afterlife, then there's no way for me to exist, since my brain is dead, but if I'm dead, than I can't think, and I wouldn't know I don't exist. I just don't like that there isn't any gurantee...

No way. In many ways I'm looking forward to it.

If you don't mind me asking, what ways do you mean?

When you realize just how expendable, how insigificant you are, how the world will still go on without you, death is no big deal. It's just the end of one journey and probably the beginning of another.

I'd probably prefer dying alone. I wouldn't want to die feeling bad for making everyone else cry all because I had to die then and there like some selfish asshole.

We do not know what happens after death so it is illogical to fear it.

We do not know what happens after death so it is illogical to fear it.
I think that's actually a very good reason to fear it.

Some days yes, some days no. I'm by no means dwelling on it eternally, but neither am I convinced that I could accept, let alone welcome, death.

I think that's actually a very good reason to fear it.
they have E courses to fix your irrational fear now.
http://www.phobia-fear-release.com/fear-of-the-unknown.html

If you don't mind me asking, what ways do you mean?

I suppose the calmness of it. The eternal peace if you like.

I'm only worried that I'll die before I get things prepared. I need to draw up papers to will my kids to someone should my husband and I both meet our demise.

I'm only worried that I'll die before I get things prepared. I need to draw up papers to will my kids to someone should my husband and I both meet our demise.

my parents have a full file on their computer that lists, step by step, everything that needs to be done for one or both of their funerals...every number, every relative, where all the paperwork is...


It's kinda creepy.

I have no fear of death, but I really really don't want it to happen - much less, any time soon.

If I can get to a point where I'm happy that my family will be okay if I go, I'll have no worries about dying. I still won't be in any rush, though. :)

No I'm not scared because I believe in Jesus Christ! :hail:

That's why it was invented.

I have no fear of death, but I really really don't want it to happen - much less, any time soon.

If I can get to a point where I'm happy that my family will be okay if I go, I'll have no worries about dying. I still won't be in any rush, though. :)

well not fearing death doesn't mean seeking it out.

no one knows if death is good or bad. So why worry about it. does it really matter we will all be there soon enough.

now living a healthy lifestyle is also not fear of death as being healthy can make your life that much more enjoyable.

I fear dying, but not death.

Well, sometimes I'll start wondering things like "What if mainstream religion is right? I don't believe in their God, so I'd be going to Hell."
And while, of course, I do not find it likely to be the case(otherwise I'd be a theist), the slightest possibility of such a thing is horrifying. The thought of eternal torment... I don't think most people really think about the full implications of it, of how horrible it really is.

But other than that occasional thought, I really don't fear death itself much. Just the process of dying.

well not fearing death doesn't mean seeking it out.

no one knows if death is good or bad. So why worry about it. does it really matter we will all be there soon enough.

now living a healthy lifestyle is also not fear of death as being healthy can make your life that much more enjoyable.

I'm not worried about it. :) I'm worried about leaving my family in who-knows-what situation if it comes sooner rather than later.

But, when I say I really don't want it to happen... there's so much stuff I want to do - and there's just not enough time to do it all. Not even if I live 200 years.:(

But, when I say I really don't want it to happen... there's so much stuff I want to do - and there's just not enough time to do it all. Not even if I live 200 years.:(

This is too true. Even just as far as formal education goes, almost whenever some friend is talking about whatever it is they study, I feel a flash of jealousy that I can't major in that as well. If only I could, I'd probably have a good dozen unrelated majors.

And that's just formal education, there is so much out there outside of that....

Nope.

i'm less scared of dying in a faschist death camp then i would be if mccain/palin had won.

slightly less so for that matter, then i have been for most of the past three decades.

Yep

Although perversely this encourages me to do risk-taking activities in an attempt to conquer my fear (yet to work though)

The one situation I have been in where there was a high likelihood of me dying in 24-48 hours, my mind was too busy trying to work out how to stay alive rather than be afraid of death. Even though I was pretty powerless at the time to really affect the outcome, I don't think that's surprising. It was an interesting insight into how my mind worked (as I had always wondered how I would react if faced with it)

One thing that dents my fear of death, is that I really don't truly understand what constitutes consciousness. It's full of contradictions if intensively examined (but I won't as it's a bit OT)

:confused:

I believe in eternal nothingness after death. And that is far more compelling to me than any idea of heaven I've encountered.

Compelling yes. I personally believe that you stop existing. It's actually a surprisingly hard concept to grasp for some people, nothing. When your brain stops functioning, sending no signals, and receiving no stimulus, and no electrical waves being sent or synaptic connections being made, you are dead. For people who believe in anything else, its a kind of "get over" attitude I assume.

The only time I'm scared of death is when it comes to breathing. I have an acute fear of stopping breathing, and knowing it. Anything else I could care less. There's just something about knowing you can't breathe and you're going to die...

There is a pain to dying by not being able to breath, because your body detects a build-up of CO2 in your bloodstream, and sends pain signals to your brain. Helium or Nitrogen, however don't give the same response, so it's quite a peaceful way to go.

I would like to point out, and I don't mean to sidetrack the thread, that being a follower of Christ is more than the avoidance of an eternal death. Its about starting new life new. Its not cheap faith. Its a disciplined, hard lifestyle.

Ha. Haha. Hahahahahahahaha.

[/trolling]

Zilam I feel ya buddy. As I catholic myself I understand how you're feeling!

We do not know what happens after death so it is illogical to fear it.Why is it illogical to fear the unknown?

Why is it illogical to fear the unknown?

Indeed, I would have said it is perfectly logical to fear the unknown.

Nope.

You're probably immune given Leeds have been dying for years.

You're probably immune given Leeds have been dying for years.

Grrrr

It's a change of scenery, why would it be scary?

That's why it was invented.

Power (and by extension, money) is why it was created. Afterlife is what made the loss of power palatable to the people that believed in it.

You're probably immune given Leeds have been dying for years.

Ooh. Snap.

I'm not worried about it. :) I'm worried about leaving my family in who-knows-what situation if it comes sooner rather than later.

But, when I say I really don't want it to happen... there's so much stuff I want to do - and there's just not enough time to do it all. Not even if I live 200 years.:(

you will be dead it wont be your responsibility. stop being such a control freak and let your family make those decisions for themselves after your dead.

It's a change of scenery, why would it be scary?Some changes are scary.

you will be dead it wont be your responsibility. stop being such a control freak and let your family make those decisions for themselves after your dead.

Silly bunny. I'm not talking about making any decisions for them, I'm talking about being able to leave some kind of legacy.

In my book, there are two kinds of people - there are those who enter this world, move through it, and try to leave it in some way better than when they arrived... and there are those who wander along haphazardly and are marked by either a crater or a silence.

To my mind, the latter are a class of parasites, which means I prefer to identify with the former group.

A little of dying itself.

More of dying before I get a chance to do some things.

Power (and by extension, money) is why it was created. Afterlife is what made the loss of power palatable to the people that believed in it.

Other way round, I think.

People are easier to handle, and MUCH easier to foist of stupid ideas and destructive ideology - if you can convince them that everything is going to somehow get better.

One only has to look around to see that, THAT 'miraculous' something better is probably not arriving any time soon. Hence all the prophecy of better times to come, and all the promises of a better life that follows this one.

The power and the money are pleasant bonuses. The intent is to make people keep slaving away at some shitty life, by promising something they can never hold you accountable for.

Silly bunny. I'm not talking about making any decisions for them, I'm talking about being able to leave some kind of legacy.

In my book, there are two kinds of people - there are those who enter this world, move through it, and try to leave it in some way better than when they arrived... and there are those who wander along haphazardly and are marked by either a crater or a silence.

To my mind, the latter are a class of parasites, which means I prefer to identify with the former group.

Can any mark you leave truly be good? good and evil are merely matter of reference.

Silly bunny. I'm not talking about making any decisions for them, I'm talking about being able to leave some kind of legacy.

In my book, there are two kinds of people - there are those who enter this world, move through it, and try to leave it in some way better than when they arrived... and there are those who wander along haphazardly and are marked by either a crater or a silence.

To my mind, the latter are a class of parasites, which means I prefer to identify with the former group.

Hold it right there! Are you saying that if you do not try to change the world for the better, then you are a parasite?

What if you try and fail? What if you see it as none of your business how the world works? What if you are too busy providing for yourself and your own dependanices?

Naaaa mate I think you are wrong on this one.

Ultimatly all that you do, any mark you leave, any legasy you leave, will be forgotten any way so then we are all parasites?

Ahh well done. I noticed lots of people today all decked out in their graduation gear as well! They always look so happy, heh.
I know I am. Hell, took me more than twice as long as the university's "regular study" time-frame.
That'll be me in 5-6years, hope I get through to then..
Good luck - when I graduated I was in my 21st semester.
Welcome to real life, may whatever god you fear have mercy on your immortal soul.
I believe He does. ;)
I mean, congratulations mate! I hope you do better than I have... I mean I sincerely hope that you don't get f... I mean... May life be long and fulfilling.
The last years have been very challenging, to say the least - what with overcoming PTSD and a major depression (there is hope, just so you know!), facing the final exams and passing them (something I didn't dare imagine a year ago), and now finishing this year with the goals achieved that I had set for myself last Christmas and New Year's.

This dragon slain, I'm ready to face new challenges now! :)

Can any mark you leave truly be good? good and evil are merely matter of reference.

I think that's your wording. I think I said something about leaving the world better than when I found it.

Yes, we can quibble over the word 'better', but what would be the point?

Hold it right there! Are you saying that if you do not try to change the world for the better, then you are a parasite?


Yes.


What if you try and fail?


Trying and failing... is still trying.


What if you see it as none of your business how the world works?


Then you're a parasite. Apathy is not an excuse.


What if you are too busy providing for yourself and your own dependanices?


What if you are?

Couldn't that be construed as trying to make the world better than you found it?


Naaaa mate I think you are wrong on this one.


Okay.


Ultimatly all that you do, any mark you leave, any legasy you leave, will be forgotten any way so then we are all parasites?

An anonymous good work is still a good work. Being forgotten is irrelevent.

If everyone tried to leave the world better than we found it, the world would be a better place... no?

But why waste effort in improving something that will be annihilated by entropy eventually? It's a nice sentiment though, I agree.


If everyone tried to leave the world better than we found it, the world would be a better place... no?

I think it would inevitably lead to more conflict. Not everyone has the same idea of 'better', and they never will.

Whereas if you're apathetic you promote harmony and peace! :D

We all go sooner or later
Meanwhile, how are you going to live?

If anyone wants to read a good book about about death/the meaning of life, read "Tuesdays with Morrie", or "The Five People You Meet in Heaven." Both by Mitch Albom

If anyone wants to read a good book about about death/the meaning of life, read "Tuesdays with Morrie", or "The Five People You Meet in Heaven." Both by Mitch Albom

Just have a sick-bag handy, and prepare to be patronised :p

*tries to reign in cynicism*

*fails*

Death is terrifying to lots of people, yet others are not phased. How do y'all feel?

Personally I'm not too worried. I'm not entirely sure about what's going to happen when I do die, but it's going to happen whether I think one thing or another.

Poll coming.

I'm honestly rather afraid of dying, whether it be soon or far off. (And don't tell it's cause I got too much time on my hands, I've heard that before)

But why waste effort in improving something that will be annihilated by entropy eventually? It's a nice sentiment though, I agree.


Entropy is inevitable... but if you're going to argue that eventual entropy is a reason for doing/not doing things - we might as well cancel the human race now.


I think it would inevitably lead to more conflict. Not everyone has the same idea of 'better', and they never will.


Conflict isn't necessarily bad. Overall though, if everyone considered making the world better as a goal, I can't see how the balance would be bad. (After all, I tend to think most forms of 'evil' are selfishness triumphing over the greater good).


Whereas if you're apathetic you promote harmony and peace! :D

But you also allow those 'evil' influences that exist to thrive, no?

Entropy is inevitable... but if you're going to argue that eventual entropy is a reason for doing/not doing things - we might as well cancel the human race now.

It arrived late, and then messed up the place. I demand a refund!

Conflict isn't necessarily bad. Overall though, if everyone considered making the world better as a goal, I can't see how the balance would be bad. (After all, I tend to think most forms of 'evil' are selfishness triumphing over the greater good).

But my point is not everyone has the same ideas about what that means. You'll never get a consensus. So there will be competition, conflict and violence. After all, to make the world a better place might mean making everyone a Christian, or making everyone a Muslim. People of either persuasion would consider it selfless and for the greater good. Or Socialist versus communist, nuclear versus renewable, vegetarian... I don't think I have the time to list all the possible ideological differences 6 billion people could come up with. Just because you believe you are being selfless, doesn't mean someone else agrees.

But you also allow those 'evil' influences that exist to thrive, no?

That really depends on whose point of view it is. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Who am I to judge?

It arrived late, and then messed up the place. I demand a refund!


Entropy is a bitch. :)


But my point is not everyone has the same ideas about what that means. You'll never get a consensus. So there will be competition, conflict and violence. After all, to make the world a better place might mean making everyone a Christian, or making everyone a Muslim. People of either persuasion would consider it selfless and for the greater good. Or Socialist versus communist, nuclear versus renewable, vegetarian... I don't think I have the time to list all the possible ideological differences 6 billion people could come up with. Just because you believe you are being selfless, doesn't mean someone else agrees.


I totally agree that people have different ideas... and I'm okay with ideas. I'm thinking that if EVERYONE tried to make the world better, certain amounts of ideology would balance each other out. If Muslims and Christians both agree that ONE of the things that would make the world better is an end to hunger, they'd conflict over their religious ideas, but everyone would get fed.


That really depends on whose point of view it is. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Who am I to judge?

Indeed. The US was born in blood, founded on terrorism - and now it's the proudest part of the nation's history. Are we arguing that there would be a large proportion of people arguing that people SHOULD be homeless and hungry, though?

I'm quite scared of dying, i'm scared of people not being afraid of dying.
It's probably one of the strongest influences in humanity to get things done, if you have no fear of death why bother living?
That's not to say death is illogical, but i certainly think it has to be feared or at the least respected.

Perhaps another reason i'm afraid to die is, i shudder to think what my family would have to go through in order to deal with it, seeing a relative in a wooden box is very saddening for me.
Besides do you know how much funerals cost nowadays? fucking rip offs, almost as bad as weddings.

If everyone tried to leave the world better than we found it, the world would be a better place... no?

What if half of everyone tries to make it better the wrong way?

What if half of everyone tries to make it better the wrong way?

very good question, i second this view.

Entropy is a bitch. :)

She's a cold, cold bitch :D

I totally agree that people have different ideas... and I'm okay with ideas. I'm thinking that if EVERYONE tried to make the world better, certain amounts of ideology would balance each other out. If Muslims and Christians both agree that ONE of the things that would make the world better is an end to hunger, they'd conflict over their religious ideas, but everyone would get fed.

I may be a cynic, but I have trouble believing they would even get that far. After all, it's probably better to starve to death but go to heaven than the other way around....


Indeed. The US was born in blood, founded on terrorism - and now it's the proudest part of the nation's history. Are we arguing that there would be a large proportion of people arguing that people SHOULD be homeless and hungry, though?

*I* wouldn't, but a free marketeer, a person who believes they are infidels, a person who believes in the superiority of their race, in population control, or someone else who is hungry and wants their food - might. If a large proportion of people could agree on something so simple, then they're wouldn't be any famine today.

What if half of everyone tries to make it better the wrong way?

Unless they absolutely cancelled each other out (which seems unlikely - one would assume that most would - for example - want everyone fed, even if they follwoed different gods, etc), at least trying would be good.

She's a cold, cold bitch :D


Overall, yes... but she might be warmer in some places. :)


I may be a cynic, but I have trouble believing they would even get that far. After all, it's probably better to starve to death but go to heaven than the other way around....


If it were an either/or case, maybe. I'm not convinced that it has to come down to Jesus OR food, though.


*I* wouldn't, but a free marketeer, a person who believes they are infidels, a person who believes in the superiority of their race, in population control, or someone else who is hungry and wants their food - might. If a large proportion of people could agree on something so simple, then they're wouldn't be any famine today.

'Free-market' supporters ARGUE that the free market will cure all those same ills, like hunger, etc. Are you saying they lie?

A large proportion of people agree - in theory - that world hunger is 'a bad thing' - but most of them do nothing about it. It isn't a lack of agreement - it's a lack of application.

Unless they absolutely cancelled each other out (which seems unlikely - one would assume that most would - for example - want everyone fed, even if they follwoed different gods, etc), at least trying would be good.
But it wouldn't help the rest of us out, would it? I may think John Doe was a swell guy for trying to end world hunger, but if he was unsuccessful I'm still going to be hungry.

But it wouldn't help the rest of us out, would it? I may think John Doe was a swell guy for trying to end world hunger, but if he was unsuccessful I'm still going to be hungry.

Why would you be waiting to see how it turned out for John Doe?

Why would you be waiting to see how it turned out for John Doe?

I'm a little confused about what the question is.
As I understand it, you said everyone trying to make the world a better place would, well, make the world a better place. I asked whether that would be true if many people were unsuccessful (like poor Mr. Doe) or just dead wrong about how to go about it. You then said trying itself would be good, and I understand how it would be unfair to determine the virtue of a single person based on the results and not motivation of their actions. But I still think it would be possible to have a world of well-meaning and very moral people who don't improve life for the rest of us.
John Doe was just an example, if that answers the question.

Overall, yes... but she might be warmer in some places. :)

I'm not willing to go into a black hole. Not without the proper protection.

If it were an either/or case, maybe. I'm not convinced that it has to come down to Jesus OR food, though.
Luckily, through transubstantiation - he's both!
Again it's going to depend on whose decision it is - to the starving man - food. To the well-fed priest preaching at them - heaven? But what if the only food is pork and you are forbidden from eating it? I still think you'll see a whole host of opinion across a huge spectrum.

'Free-market' supporters ARGUE that the free market will cure all those same ills, like hunger, etc. Are you saying they lie?
;)
Some seem to believe market corrections are justified, even if people starve. (Don't worry, hopefully they might be saved by rich tax-free philanthropists. ... Hopefully.)

A large proportion of people agree - in theory - that world hunger is 'a bad thing' - but most of them do nothing about it. It isn't a lack of agreement - it's a lack of application.
But if they REALLY agreed, and agreed it was important, why wouldn't they do it? Talking about how the world would be better and agreeing with each other, achieves as much as sitting around doing bugger through apathy.

Also I think they also can't agree how to do it, how much sacrifice they are willing to make for it, who gets helped first, etc. That's the second tier of conflict, if you will.

I'm a little confused about what the question is.
As I understand it, you said everyone trying to make the world a better place would, well, make the world a better place. I asked whether that would be true if many people were unsuccessful (like poor Mr. Doe) or just dead wrong about how to go about it. You then said trying itself would be good, and I understand how it would be unfair to determine the virtue of a single person based on the results and not motivation of their actions. But I still think it would be possible to have a world of well-meaning and very moral people who don't improve life for the rest of us.
John Doe was just an example, if that answers the question.

The point I'm making there is - why are we judging this on John Doe... were you not ALSO trying to feed the hungry?

The point I'm making there is - why are we judging this on John Doe... were you not ALSO trying to feed the hungry?
In other words, I shouldn't be worried about how others improve (or don't improve) the world, and focus on my own efforts?

I'm not willing to go into a black hole. Not without the proper protection.


That whole thing started off in a potentially bad place, and has continued downhill... :)


Luckily, through transubstantiation - he's both!


:D


Again it's going to depend on whose decision it is - to the starving man - food. To the well-fed priest preaching at them - heaven? But what if the only food is pork and you are forbidden from eating it? I still think you'll see a whole host of opinion across a huge spectrum.


There would be opinions, obviously. I'm not convinced the priest would be saying food wasn't important, though.


Some seem to believe market corrections are justified, even if people starve. (Don't worry, hopefully they might be saved by rich tax-free philanthropists. ... Hopefully.)


Those that really seem to hold the line that free markets are more important that people, seem fairly rare. The question then, is - are a lot of people lying about it?


But if they REALLY agreed, and agreed it was important, why wouldn't they do it?


No, because people are lazy, apathetic and selfish.


Also I think they also can't agree how to do it, how much sacrifice they are willing to make for it, who gets helped first, etc. That's the second tier of conflict, if you will.

I think about the christians I know. I think about how many of them have a 'god' that is nothing but a cute convenience they tip their hats to... how many of them have a 'god' that watches over them for their belief, even while they live earthly lives... and how FEW actually live lives that are REALLY 'christlike'.

Most people are half-hearted at best. A day on which there was REAL effort to do something good - christians could move mountains with faith.

In other words, I shouldn't be worried about how others improve (or don't improve) the world, and focus on my own efforts?

Yes.

Really. I mean - there's no reason why you shouldn't coordinate efforts, and help one another towards that goal. You don't literally have to ignore John Doe. But yes - at heart, you're talking about what I'm talking about.

Yes.

Really. I mean - there's no reason why you shouldn't coordinate efforts, and help one another towards that goal. You don't literally have to ignore John Doe. But yes - at heart, you're talking about what I'm talking about.
That makes sense. If half the world is trying to do good the wrong way and I know this, it's not enough for me to do good the right way; I have to help others do good.

I'm quite scared of dying, i'm scared of people not being afraid of dying.
It's probably one of the strongest influences in humanity to get things done, if you have no fear of death why bother living?
That's not to say death is illogical, but i certainly think it has to be feared or at the least respected.

Perhaps another reason i'm afraid to die is, i shudder to think what my family would have to go through in order to deal with it, seeing a relative in a wooden box is very saddening for me.
Besides do you know how much funerals cost nowadays? fucking rip offs, almost as bad as weddings.
its a good idea to "pre shop" for your own funeral. if you family has your permission or orders to go cheap, then they can hold their heads high when the rest of the realatives tsk tsks over the ritz and velveeta hors d'oeuvres served at your wake.

I've had cancer. I think my perspective on death is a little bit different now.

I've had cancer. I think my perspective on death is a little bit different now.

Cancer is one of the scarier things I know. Specifically, how has it affected your perspective?

Cancer is one of the scarier things I know. Specifically, how has it affected your perspective?

Indeed it is, and those who are able to overcome it are truly admirable.

Cancer is one of the scarier things I know. Specifically, how has it affected your perspective?

I feel a greater need to appreciate life and not take stuff nearly as seriously as I used to.

I also feel like if it's my time to go, I'll go gently into that good night. I'm not afraid of it the way I used to be.

How do y'all feel?I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Death is the most prolific businesswoman in the history of the world. Everything buys her product. Except for things that aren't, you know, alive. :D

That whole thing started off in a potentially bad place, and has continued downhill... :)
No comment. I can't deal with any more awful physics puns..... Not in a thread of such gravity.

There would be opinions, obviously. I'm not convinced the priest would be saying food wasn't important, though.

Those that really seem to hold the line that free markets are more important that people, seem fairly rare. The question then, is - are a lot of people lying about it?

It doesn't have to be just them, they were an example. My point is there are people that would still disagree, no matter how simple the idea might be. If they all strive to make the world a better place, there's at best an impasse and at worst violent conflict.

I think about the christians I know. I think about how many of them have a 'god' that is nothing but a cute convenience they tip their hats to... how many of them have a 'god' that watches over them for their belief, even while they live earthly lives... and how FEW actually live lives that are REALLY 'christlike'.

Most people are half-hearted at best. A day on which there was REAL effort to do something good - christians could move mountains with faith.
But what if the mountain has already come to Mohammed? There is just as great a capacity for vehement disagreement as amazing achievement using faith. At least if some people are apathetic, then other people can get things done because not everyone is disagreeing with them all the time.

Cancer is one of the scarier things I know. Specifically, how has it affected your perspective?

Why do you find it scary?

I fear more for my grandparents. Being without them scares me to death.:D

I, personally, am rather excited to see what's beyond this life, if there is anything.

No comment. I can't deal with any more awful physics puns..... Not in a thread of such gravity.


That's heavy, man.


It doesn't have to be just them, they were an example. My point is there are people that would still disagree, no matter how simple the idea might be. If they all strive to make the world a better place, there's at best an impasse and at worst violent conflict.


That's not true - at ebst you could get miracles, and at worst, conflict. Impasse would be somewhere in the middle, if somehow - as unlikely as it seems - everyone balanced out everyone else's view on every issue.


But what if the mountain has already come to Mohammed? There is just as great a capacity for vehement disagreement as amazing achievement using faith. At least if some people are apathetic, then other people can get things done because not everyone is disagreeing with them all the time.

Apathy is the status quo. That's what we've got now. So - where are all these good works?

That's heavy, man.
Nice to see you maintaining the momentum

That's not true - at ebst you could get miracles, and at worst, conflict. Impasse would be somewhere in the middle, if somehow - as unlikely as it seems - everyone balanced out everyone else's view on every issue.

Matter of opinion I suppose, and how likely how many people are to agree to what extent (as is the nub of this argument). I suppose I am more cynical than you.

Apathy is the status quo. That's what we've got now. So - where are all these good works?

We need more apathy - that's why! I will actively campaign for it :tongue:

GnI, if you're in the same timezone as me, you're an insomniac. It makes a thorough debate really difficult when I have to go to work in 4 hours. (and go to bed in-between)

So i'm off for some shut-eye, to dream about the paradise of apathy this world could be (if I can be bothered)

I fear more for my grandparents. Being without them scares me to death.:D

I, personally, am rather excited to see what's beyond this life, if there is anything.
how old are your grandparents?

An anonymous good work is still a good work. Being forgotten is irrelevent.

If everyone tried to leave the world better than we found it, the world would be a better place... no?

Don't worry about the world it will worry about itself. Only concern yourself with living a good life. just live a good life and don't worry about others.

then when you die you have lived a good life as you've seen it.

I feel a greater need to appreciate life and not take stuff nearly as seriously as I used to.

I also feel like if it's my time to go, I'll go gently into that good night. I'm not afraid of it the way I used to be.

I know the original question wasn't directed at me, but, this.

Don't worry about the world it will worry about itself. Only concern yourself with living a good life. just live a good life and don't worry about others.

then when you die you have lived a good life as you've seen it.

This 'don't worry about the world and it will worry about itself' crap is why we have mass deforestation, rising oceans and drying land, and mass hunger.

Make whatever excuses you like to make yourself feel good, but don't pretend that you're absolved of culpability.

It's funny. I was actually more terrified of dying when I believed absolutely in an afterlife than I am now that I question it's existence. I'm still pretty damn scared now though.