NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7771937.stm

This is rather interesting.


Basically, as Obama's father is Kenyan, and at the time of his birth, the British ruled Kenya, he is half British legally. Some aspects of the US government are saying that as he is this, he cannot be president, of course, this pathetic notion imo has been rejected.

Still, it is rather cool that the future leader of the US is part British =P

Opinions please.

British in the sense Gandhi was British.

so a large percentage of the world is British? shit. *wonders how many will claim benefits*

British in the sense Gandhi was British.

I agree, everything that has ever been great has had British input :D

people really will do anything to keep him out of office.

You can be legally half-British? I didnt know they split citizenship like that..

Supreme Court rejected to hear this. Its just some Bushevik who is shitting himself over his loss, and cant just be a good looser and get the fuck over it.

My god this guy is an idiot:
"Since Barack Obama's father was a citizen of Kenya, and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama's birth, then Senator Obama was a British citizen 'at birth', just like the framers of the Constitution, and therefore, even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on US soil, he still wouldn't be eligible to be president."

By his own admission, his construal of the 'natural-born citizen' clause would have precluded the framers of the Constitution from being president. Does he want to retroactively impeach Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Adams?

It's a shame that this will go nowhere because I'm still furious that I wasn't picked for a cabinet position.

people really will do anything to keep him out of office.

well really all he needs to do now is come out of the closet and the American flag will be able to physically burn him :p

By his own admission, his construal of the 'natural-born citizen' clause would have precluded the framers of the Constitution from being president. Does he want to retroactively impeach Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Adams?

I can see the future crowning of King Schwarzenegger already...

It's a shame that this will go nowhere because I'm still furious that I wasn't picked for a cabinet position.
me too, i was hoping to be named ambassador to internet forums

people really will do anything to keep him out of office.

I'm waiting for them to change the White House Locks on him... :D

Look, the guy who tried to get this into court spent his money, and his time. He is now widely acknowledged as a moron, and he suffered.

IMHO, perfect.

there are still a few "faked birth certificate" suits floating around. they wont go anywhere but it sure does get some people worked up.

Obama was born in the United States, therefore, per the 14th amendment, he is a natural born citizen of the United States.

Obama was born in the United States, therefore, per the 14th amendment, he is a natural born citizen of the United States.

But...hes black!

Obama was born in the United States, therefore, per the 14th amendment, he is a natural born citizen of the United States.
nooooo NA. he was born in kenya then his mom got his birth certificate faked when she flew to hawaii with him as a newborn. she knew he was going to run for president, dontcha know.

Supreme Court rejected to hear this. Its just some Bushevik who is shitting himself over his loss, and cant just be a good looser and get the fuck over it.

and it only got to be publicly rejected because a different bushevik (who happens to sit on the court) didn't reject it privately, like real justices had

My god this guy is an idiot:


By his own admission, his construal of the 'natural-born citizen' clause would have precluded the framers of the Constitution from being president. Does he want to retroactively impeach Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Adams?

the framers, I fear, were a LITTLE smarter than that:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

But...hes black!

That's actually what it boils down to.

nooooo NA. he was born in kenya then his mom got his birth certificate faked when she flew to hawaii with him as a newborn. she knew he was going to run for president, dontcha know.

and those pesky people in Hawaii who have publicly stated that they are in possession of the official birth certificate are in on it!

and those pesky people in Hawaii who have publicly stated that they are in possession of the official birth certificate are in on it!
exactly.

because you know how those hawaiians love to set up immigrants as potential future presidents!

Whats more laughable is that some nobody like his mom at the time would have the connections to get his birth certificate forged.

I find this quite funny. A legally half-British president.

Personally, I'm holding out for my third-generation Irish right-of-return citizenship.

I find this quite funny. A legally half-British president.

Personally, I'm holding out for my third-generation Irish right-of-return citizenship.
bill clinton is eligible to run for president of france.

I find this quite funny. A legally half-British president.

Personally, I'm holding out for my third-generation Irish right-of-return citizenship.

the thing is, he's not half british anymore.

Under the law at the time, he would have had to actively take on british citizenship at the time he turned 18, the british law that his father's citizenship was extended to him specifically stated that it lapsed automatically at the age of 18 unless he specifically acted to take it on.

He did not.

More to point, under US law, the constitution of the united states is supreme over all other law. Regardless of what various treaties, or the laws of other nations, might have said, the 14th amendment states, anyone born in the United States is a citizen of the United States, and Obama was born in the United States

End of story.

Whats more laughable is that some nobody like his mom at the time would have the connections to get his birth certificate forged.
yeah she was.....18 or 19 years old....new baby, failed marriage, and her first thought is "i have to get my baby's birth certificate forged" even though there is no benefit to doing so until 48 years later when he runs for president.

no wonder he's so smart, his mother was brilliant!

bill clinton is eligible to run for president of france.

And I'm not eligible to run for prime-minister of Brazil. *Waits for someone to guess why.*

Aren't a lot of the Americans today from British ancestory?

And I'm not eligible to run for prime-minister of Brazil. *Waits for someone to guess why.*
oh how sad for you.

good thing you make good money as a translator!

the framers, I fear, were a LITTLE smarter than that:

Huh, I've always heard that it excluded Hamilton. He was a citizen in 1787, wasn't he?

Anyway, Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen, which makes him a U.S. citizen at birth regardless of where he was born or what nationality his father was. If McCain is a natural-born citizen despite being born in Panama, then Obama is a natural-born citizen even his pregnant mother was smuggled into Kenya and then he was smuggled back to Hawaii and had his birth certificate forged afterward.

Bullshit. Born on US soil= US citizen, or are we forgetting all the folks bitching about kids of illegal aliens born here being citizens?

He was born in Hawaii. He's a citizen. Get over it.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

Bullshit. Born on US soil= US citizen, or are we forgetting all the folks bitching about kids of illegal aliens born here being citizens?

He was born in Hawaii. He's a citizen. Get over it.He may be a U.S. citizen--but is he a natural-born citizen? What if he was supernaturally born?

He may be a U.S. citizen--but is he a natural-born citizen? What if he was supernaturally born?

Then he'd REALLY be the Messiah, and that has been the line of the Right for a while now, that we treat him as the Messiah. So... Mmm...

I give up.

oh how sad for you.

good thing you make good money as a translator!

I HOPE I do...

so a large percentage of the world is British? shit. *wonders how many will claim benefits*

-snip-

Ancestry Visa FTW

Huh, I've always heard that it excluded Hamilton.

you know, i remember hearing the same thing at some point.

But...hes half-black!

Fixed.

Fixed.

*gets out shiny cromatograph*

He would appear to be a light brown. :p

you know, i remember hearing the same thing at some point.

It did exclude Hamilton. He was born in the British West Indies.

Fixed.

This is relevent how? My joke stands.

It did exclude Hamilton. He was born in the British West Indies.

so hamilton wasn't a citizen?

Huh, I've always heard that it excluded Hamilton. He was a citizen in 1787, wasn't he?

Anyway, Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen, which makes him a U.S. citizen at birth regardless of where he was born or what nationality his father was. If McCain is a natural-born citizen despite being born in Panama, then Obama is a natural-born citizen even his pregnant mother was smuggled into Kenya and then he was smuggled back to Hawaii and had his birth certificate forged afterward.

it's slightly more complicated like that. Under the law as it stood when Obama was born if both parents were not US citizens, and only one is, the US citizen parent had to be older than Obama was at the time.

As for John McCain, he was born on a US MILITARY BASE in Panama at the time of his birth. It was sovereign US territory, and therefore he is a citizen.

It did exclude Hamilton. He was born in the British West Indies.

Yes but I presume he was covered by "or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution." Unless he wasn't technically a citizen? Which could be plausible since before the 14th amendment each state had their own naturalization laws?

Yes but I presume he was covered by "or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution." Unless he wasn't technically a citizen? Which could be plausible since before the 14th amendment each state had their own naturalization laws?

I believe so. Not exactly sure though.

it's slightly more complicated like that. Under the law as it stood when Obama was born if both parents were not US citizens, and only one is, the US citizen parent had to be older than Obama was at the time.

As for John McCain, he was born on a US MILITARY BASE in Panama at the time of his birth. It was sovereign US territory, and therefore he is a citizen.
didnt i read that the panama canal zone where mccain was born is NOT a military base or whatever other stated exceptions there are?

So, since all my grandparents were born in the British Raj, does that make me part British? How does Obama's dad's citizenship automatically extend over to him?

it's slightly more complicated like that. Under the law as it stood when Obama was born if both parents were not US citizens, and only one is, the US citizen parent had to be older than Obama was at the time.

As for John McCain, he was born on a US MILITARY BASE in Panama at the time of his birth. It was sovereign US territory, and therefore he is a citizen.

Well, McCain is undoubtedly a citizen. But if he's a natural-born citizen, then you don't need to be born inside the U.S. to be natural-born. I wasn't aware of the citizenship laws at the time, though. Regardless, this particular lawsuit doesn't allege a fake birth certificate.

It seems to me like the "rule of naturalization" part of Article II Section 8 should give Congress the power to make up a rule and settle this question.

How does Obama's dad's citizenship automatically extend over to him?

same way obama's mom's would have if he had in fact been born in kenya (under current law). lots of countries do this sort of thing with citizenship.

As for John McCain, he was born on a US MILITARY BASE in Panama at the time of his birth. It was sovereign US territory, and therefore he is a citizen.

he could have been born anywhere in the world to USian parents and been a natural born citizen. the only real issue is that the canal zone was arguably in some sort of legal limbo at the time of his birth.

didnt i read that the panama canal zone where mccain was born is NOT a military base or whatever other stated exceptions there are?

McCain's citizenship called into question: (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/)
Besides, many legal scholars say the Canal Zone never was sovereign U.S. territory. In a February 1978 speech to the nation on the Panama Canal Treaty, heavily vetted by government lawyers, President Carter said, "We have never had sovereignty over it. We have only had the right to use it. The US Supreme Court and previous American presidents have repeatedly acknowledged the sovereignty of Panama over the Canal Zone."My opinion is that it's a dumb requirement and should be interpreted as loosely as possible.
he could have been born anywhere in the world to USian parents and been a natural born citizen. the only real issue is that the canal zone was arguably in some sort of legal limbo at the time of his birth.No, he would have been a citizen. Whether he would have been "natural-born" is ambiguous. In 1964, the Supreme Court seemed to say, without deciding, that "natural born" meant born inside the United States. In an opinion on an unrelated issue, the court observed, "The rights of citizenship of the native born and of the naturalized person are of the same dignity and are coextensive. The only difference drawn by the Constitution is that only the 'natural born' citizen is eligible to be President." But that language is not legally binding, and the Supreme Court has never ruled on what "natural born" means.

Well, McCain is undoubtedly a citizen. But if he's a natural-born citizen, then you don't need to be born inside the U.S. to be natural-born. I wasn't aware of the citizenship laws at the time, though. Regardless, this particular lawsuit doesn't allege a fake birth certificate.

It seems to me like the "rule of naturalization" part of Article II Section 8 should give Congress the power to make up a rule and settle this question.

he was born "inside the U.S.". He was born on a US military base. An american military base is sovereign us territory, as much part of america as the land my apartment sits on in Massachusetts.

So, since all my grandparents were born in the British Raj, does that make me part British? How does Obama's dad's citizenship automatically extend over to him?

Obama could have claimed British citizenship once, as the child of a person from within the British empire at the time. This option is no longer open.

he was born "inside the U.S.". He was born on a US military base. An american military base is sovereign us territory, as much part of america as the land my apartment sits on in Massachusetts.

Not quite, I think. Overseas military bases, even if they sit on sovereign U.S. territory (apparently in question in the case of the Panama Canal Zone), are not exactly de jure "part" of America. That's why White House lawyers thought that Guantánamo could circumvent U.S. law.

the whole Obama was not a citizen was silly to begin with. Sadly someone in my Poli sci class wasted the professors time with the question. His mom was American therefore he is American by blood regardless of where he was born. He was born in the US as well making him a citizen by soil. Obama is a citizen by both blood and soil end of discussion.

birth in Hawaii http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

Not quite, I think. Overseas military bases, even if they sit on sovereign U.S. territory (apparently in question in the case of the Panama Canal Zone), are not exactly de jure "part" of America.

No, they are.

That's why White House lawyers thought that Guantánamo could circumvent U.S. law.

That was just Bush being a twat.

Bullshit. Born on US soil= US citizen, or are we forgetting all the folks bitching about kids of illegal aliens born here being citizens?

He was born in Hawaii. He's a citizen. Get over it.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
You know, I'm not quite sure what folks are aiming for with this right now. He was elected, so if he suddenly becomes ineligible, that does not automatically flip the election over to McCain, it would just make Binden president in his stead.

You know, I'm not quite sure what folks are aiming for with this right now. He was elected, so if he suddenly becomes ineligible, that does not automatically flip the election over to McCain, it would just make Binden president in his stead.

Pretty sure it would be Biden. Because McCain's conceeded.

But, theyd be ok with Biden. Because hes not black.

he was born "inside the U.S.". He was born on a US military base. An american military base is sovereign us territory, as much part of america as the land my apartment sits on in Massachusetts.

not according to the state dept.

"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

not according to the state dept.

"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

Then that changed this year. Because its been that way for...well...ever.

It's not as funny as it is pathetic and scary at the same time.

Go on other boards with a larger right wing crowd and it gets downright terrifying what they think about this though.

Lots of Sedition from them.

It's not as funny as it is pathetic and scary at the same time.

Go on other boards with a larger right wing crowd and it gets downright terrifying what they think about this though.

Lots of Sedition from them.

only sedition if they use their guns. voting using the courts is fine, if thats wht they want to waste their money on.

Then that changed this year. Because its been that way for...well...ever.

the document is from 1995...

You can be born outside the US and territories and still be a natural born US citizen. The parent must be a US citizen and the parent must register the birth at a US Consulate. The child is also a citizen/subject/whatever of the country of birth. At the legal majority age the child must declare which citizenship he/she desires. The default is that of the parent. You have to be careful as the country of birth can still claim the child as a citizen and subject to its laws (e.g. military service). I'm not sure but to overcome the latter problem I think the child must legally renounce the citizenship of the country of birth.

Got three kids, all born outside the US but without doubt, natural born US citizens.

Not quite, I think. Overseas military bases, even if they sit on sovereign U.S. territory (apparently in question in the case of the Panama Canal Zone), are not exactly de jure "part" of America. That's why White House lawyers thought that Guantánamo could circumvent U.S. law.

ahh GUANTANAMO is a slightly different animal. It's not sovereign US territory, it is actually cuban land, leased to the United States from Cuba.

The child is also a citizen/subject/whatever of the country of birth.
Well, no. That depends a great deal upon the country that the child is born in. The US grants citizenship by right of soil, meaning that if you are born in the US, regardless of the status (excepting diplomatic personnel), you are an American. There are a few other countries with the same system. A LOT of countries however grant citizenship by right of blood, meaning that you need at least one parent who is a citizen of that nation to claim citizenship. My son is Japanese because his mother is, not because he was born in Japan.

At the legal majority age the child must declare which citizenship he/she desires.
Not under US law. US law does not recognize nor prohibits dual citizenship. Pretty much the US ignores it and doesn't really care, just as long as you pay your taxes to the US, they're happy. :tongue:

Some countries do have that system though, my son will have to choose whether he is Japanese or American at age 22 (Or maybe not, no one actually bothers to check and the Diet might actually change the law).

Finally though, no one is sure if being born outside the US to US parents (or parent) qualifies one as a natural born citizen under the Constitution to hold the presidency. The question has not come up yet to SCOTUS.

Then that changed this year. Because its been that way for...well...ever.

Partly true.

The US bases in England, are still RAF bases, and are still called by the RAF base names, in other countries, the bases may well be US sovereign territory. But in the United Kingdom, US bases are property of the RAF and MOD (Ministry of Defence.)

Adding to this, the RAF base in Cyprus, I think this is British soil. And the one in German (near Bergen I think) Is as well.

What I am trying to say is that some US bases may be leased, instead of being owned, meaning they can stay there, but they do not have sovereign rights over it. Leases and ownerships, laws, would be down to the government in charge.

So, what you say may be true for the majority of US bases, but I'm sure that their are exceptions. Correct me if I am wrong.

nooooo NA. he was born in kenya then his mom got his birth certificate faked when she flew to hawaii with him as a newborn. she knew he was going to run for president, dontcha know.Irrelevant, considering she's American. All in all, I'm mildly surprised there's actually fuss about a potential dual citizen president. I can't think of any part of the constitution that expressly forbids it, unless you really stretch the definition of "natural born".
he was born "inside the U.S.". He was born on a US military base. An american military base is sovereign us territory, as much part of america as the land my apartment sits on in Massachusetts.Not necessarily true. It depends on the Status of Forces Agreement. I can't find the one on where McCain was born, though. Not that it matters, really. He's a natural born US citizen, having two American parents and having been issued US citizenship at birth.

Irrelevant, considering she's American. All in all, I'm mildly surprised there's actually fuss about a potential dual citizen president. I can't think of any part of the constitution that expressly forbids it, unless you really stretch the definition of "natural born".
Not necessarily true. It depends on the Status of Forces Agreement. I can't find the one on where McCain was born, though. Not that it matters, really. He's a natural born US citizen, having two American parents and having been issued US citizenship at birth.
thats my point of view. if you didnt have to be naturalized then you are a natural born citizen.

only sedition if they use their guns. voting using the courts is fine, if thats wht they want to waste their money on. Uh they were talking a whole lot about "The government has betrayed us", "Putting the 2nd Admendent to use", as well as listing their arsenals. If that's not implying something I don't know what is.

On a vaguely related note, the smartest thing the Republicans can do is try to make it so that foreign-born people can become President, and then run Schwarzenegger.

Irrelevant, considering she's American. All in all, I'm mildly surprised there's actually fuss about a potential dual citizen president. I can't think of any part of the constitution that expressly forbids it, unless you really stretch the definition of "natural born".
Not necessarily true. It depends on the Status of Forces Agreement. I can't find the one on where McCain was born, though. Not that it matters, really. He's a natural born US citizen, having two American parents and having been issued US citizenship at birth.

The part of the fuss that interests me is that even if Obama weren't a citizen then Biden would become President. It wouldn't reverse the election result.

The part of the fuss that interests me is that even if Obama weren't a citizen then Biden would become President. It wouldn't reverse the election result.

And even under that situation, likely Biden would take orders from Obama unofficially. It would be deemed as the honorable thing to do.

Uh they were talking a whole lot about "The government has betrayed us", "Putting the 2nd Admendent to use", as well as listing their arsenals. If that's not implying something I don't know what is.

I don't doubt you, but can you link this?

people really will do anything to keep him out of office.

Well, if he doesn't show at the inauguration, then it's either Biden or Pelosi, so it really shouldn't be a "glimmer of hope" or anything to Repubs.

This, though, is clearly something to freak out over...Obama uses a Zune. :rolleyes:

http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/clog/2008/12/02/cardio-with-obama/
http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/clog/2008/12/03/zunegate/

Especially look at some of the reader comments.

On a vaguely related note, the smartest thing the Republicans can do is try to make it so that foreign-born people can become President, and then run Schwarzenegger.You probably wouldn't like Schwarzenegger in the first place, unless your support for candidates is so shallow as to be limited to the label "conservative".

This, though, is clearly something to freak out over...Obama uses a Zune. :rolleyes:

http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/clog/2008/12/02/cardio-with-obama/
http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/clog/2008/12/03/zunegate/

Especially look at some of the reader comments.

Oh FUCK. I don't want him using a Zune, I USE A ZUNE.

The bastard IS smart.

You probably wouldn't like Schwarzenegger in the first place, unless your support for candidates is so shallow as to be limited to the label "conservative".

Why not? He sounds pretty solid.

Why not? He sounds pretty solid.Yes he does. And that I like him should send your alarm bells ringing.

Guys I believe that what is spoken of in the Revelation has started. Let those with eyes and ears sensitive to godly things see, hear and understand what is truely happening here.

Kor

Yes he does. And that I like him should send your alarm bells ringing.

Why? He's realistic, you liberals don't like that kinda thing.

Why? He's realistic, you liberals don't like that kinda thing.Two mistakes: I'm not a liberal, and Arnold Schwarzenegger is.

Two mistakes: I'm not a liberal, and Arnold Schwarzenegger is.

1) You're definitely a liberal.
2) He's really not. Did you see his policies on illegal immigration and crime? He's only really a liberal as far as healthcare and the environment go, and really, those aren't left-right issues anyway.

1) You're definitely a liberal.
2) He's really not. Did you see his policies on illegal immigration and crime? He's only really a liberal as far as healthcare and the environment go, and really, those aren't left-right issues anyway.Nope.

Still, it is rather cool that the future leader of the US is part British =P

Opinions please.

So. how far down on the list for the throne is he ?
*starts plotting to exterminate everyone above him*

Nope.

You're not a liberal, huh? Prove it.

You're not a liberal, huh? Prove it.

He said he's not. That's proof.

Prove you're not a pedophile and serial rapist.

I am wondering why there are 6 pages of debate about this...
The answer is simple.
In Most European states (including the UK) if you're parents are British then you have the right to claim British nationality.
I am Italian because my parents are Italian, but i hadn't born in Italy nor lived in Italy....
But then if i had born in the US what?

Then i would be able to be Italian and US citizen at the same time (if the law of these two countries allow double-citizenship, if not then i would have to choose)

The point is that Obama probably could ask for British citizenship instead of US one.....

You're not a liberal, huh? Prove it.I'm leftist. Pretty much proves I'm no money-grubbing liberal right there. Honestly, for someone who's conservative party calls themselves liberal, you should know better. Then again, maybe you do and you're just trolling again.

The bastard IS smart.

The more I see of the guy, the more I'm convinced he's briliant. His cabinet picks have been, almost to a tee, the best of the best. Not to mention he's built one heck of a transition infrastructure, and fostered comparatively good relations with the outbounders since the election.

He has the potential to be a really good President.

And sensible enough to own an mp3 player with significantly greater functionality than the Apple device, which relies on style and popularity. ;)

Guys I believe that what is spoken of in the Revelation has started. Let those with eyes and ears sensitive to godly things see, hear and understand what is truely happening here.

Kor

Oh God. Youre what Ive always wanted on this forum. Please please please post more.

I'm leftist. Pretty much proves I'm no money-grubbing liberal right there. Honestly, for someone who's conservative party calls themselves liberal, you should know better. Then again, maybe you do and you're just trolling again.

Leftist == liberal.

Leftist == liberal.

Really? I thought liberal was some sort of boogieman like the terrorist or the homosexual.

Leftist == liberal.

You forgot a / there. One can be a liberal and not be a leftist. Just like how one can be a conservative and not be a rightist.

Leftist == liberal.

Quite. Perhaps you would like to step this way and face reality, instead of your current very limited and narrow view of it ?

Leftist == liberal.Och (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Howard), no (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Westerwelle).

Quite. Perhaps you would like to step this way and face reality, instead of your current very limited and narrow view of it ?He's trolling. Trying to get the most riled comments for the minumum amount of effort.

He's trolling. Trying to get the most riled comments for the minumum amount of effort.

Oh, sinking as low as namecalling is simply not done. Afterall, a Brit is now president of the USA - so civilisation is returning.

Crumpet ?

Crumpet ?
I'll have some Lemon Curry. =D

As for John McCain, he was born on a US MILITARY BASE in Panama at the time of his birth. It was sovereign US territory, and therefore he is a citizen.
No, no, it was sovereign Panamanian territory under a "perpetual leasehold" (that is, the US could renew the lease as long as it wanted). Panamanians working in the Zone did not become US citizens, neither did their children if born there (same with Germans working on US airbases leased from Germany).
Congress passed a statute to clarify that children born to US citizens in the Zone, or on military bases, are US citizens from birth, but McCain was already 4 years old when that statute passed. That was the technicality about McCain: we had a thread about it once, ages ago, that I'm not going to look for since just about everybody on the thread agreed it was a really lame argument. Not as lame as the argument about Obama, however.

No, no, it was sovereign Panamanian territory under a "perpetual leasehold" (that is, the US could renew the lease as long as it wanted). Panamanians working in the Zone did not become US citizens, neither did their children if born there (same with Germans working on US airbases leased from Germany).
Congress passed a statute to clarify that children born to US citizens in the Zone, or on military bases, are US citizens from birth, but McCain was already 4 years old when that statute passed. That was the technicality about McCain: we had a thread about it once, ages ago, that I'm not going to look for since just about everybody on the thread agreed it was a really lame argument. Not as lame as the argument about Obama, however.
yeah thats where i got the story from.

but i think that this "dual citizenship" suit included disqualifying mccain (on those grounds) and one other candidate whom i cant remember.

yeah thats where i got the story from.

but i think that this "dual citizenship" suit included disqualifying mccain (on those grounds) and one other candidate whom i cant remember.

He was from the Socialist Party, had a Latino name.

Look, the guy who tried to get this into court spent his money, and his time. He is now widely acknowledged as a moron, and he suffered.

IMHO, perfect.

Yup. Let the people with more money than brains hang themselves with their own words in the public square of the marketplace of ideas.

exactly.

because you know how those hawaiians love to set up immigrants as potential future presidents!

Well, yeah. Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI) was considered a "shame-he-can't-run" candidate from Hawaii.

On a vaguely related note, the smartest thing the Republicans can do is try to make it so that foreign-born people can become President, and then run Schwarzenegger.

We'll trade you Article III for the 22nd Amendment. That way Schwarzenegger can run against Bill Clinton. The Terminator vs. the Sperminator. Conan vs. Onan. Alien vs. Predator.

Massive props to Bill Maher & his writers for that bit.

I'll have some Lemon Curry. =D

*cut to Thames announcer*

Lemon curry?

He was from the Socialist Party, had a Latino name.You thinking of Gloria LaRiva? She's female, but... sure sounds like a furrinner to me.

You thinking of Gloria LaRiva? She's female, but... sure sounds like a furrinner to me.

I think it was a male.

ok i looked it up. according to the washington post it was Socialist Workers Party candidate Roger Calero. but it didnt say why they thought he might not be a natural born citizen.

ok i looked it up. according to the washington post it was Socialist Workers Party candidate Roger Calero. but it didnt say why they thought he might not be a natural born citizen.

likely cause he was born in Nicaragua to Nicaraguan parents.

likely cause he was born in Nicaragua to Nicaraguan parents.
that would do it.

nothing says "we're not serious about running" like running an unqualified candidate.

that would do it.

nothing says "we're not serious about running" like running an unqualified candidate.

I'd like you to reconsider that statement... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party)

2) He's really not. Did you see his policies on illegal immigration and crime? He's only really a liberal as far as healthcare and the environment go, and really, those aren't left-right issues anyway.

No, immigration and crime divide by demographic, not by political ideology. Health care and the environment are fairly partisan in America. That's why Schwarznegger can govern a blue state like California. I would vote for him over most other Republicans.

Och (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Howard), no (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Westerwelle).

You're seriously calling John Howard a liberal?

You're seriously calling John Howard a liberal?

Yes, that is a ridiculous thing to call a former head of the Liberal Party.

Yes, that is a ridiculous thing to call a former head of the Liberal Party.

It's called the Liberal Party, but it's anything but. It's considered the conservative of the two major parties.

It's called the Liberal Party, but it's anything but. It's considered the conservative of the two major parties.

Which seems to indicate that one can be nominally "liberal" without being a political leftist.

Which seems to indicate that one can be nominally "liberal" without being a political leftist.

You can do that?

Alright, I am nominally a billionaire while not actually having any money.

You can do that?

Alright, I am nominally a billionaire while not actually having any money.
And if you get enough people to do that with you, "billionaire" will become as nebulous as "liberal" is.

You can do that?Only if you're intellectually honest.

Basically, as Obama's father is Kenyan, and at the time of his birth, the British ruled Kenya, he is half British legally.


Meh, I think that the legal status of colonials isn't equated to the legal status of metropolitan subjetcs. That is, being subject of a monarchy which has HBM as Head of State doesn't mean that you're British.

Anyway, Churchill was half-USian, so it's just a historical nemesis of sorts.

washington adams madison and jefferson were all born in the U.S. -- or, more accurately, were all born in the colonies that became the U.S.

washington adams madison and jefferson were all born in the U.S. -- or, more accurately, were all born in the colonies that became the U.S.Ergo not the U.S.

Ergo not the U.S.

Colonies / US; Same thing in my book. Just as we are the same person our entire lives from our birth to our death.

there are still a few "faked birth certificate" suits floating around. they wont go anywhere but it sure does get some people worked up.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/God_of_the_Bloody_Tongue/obamabirth.gif

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/God_of_the_Bloody_Tongue/obamabirth.gif

Roflmfao!!

Colonies / US; Same thing in my book. Just as we are the same person our entire lives from our birth to our death.

Debatable.

Anyone mention that one of Britians greatest leaders Churchill was half American and eligible for American citizenship? Anyway this is much to do about nothing.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7771937.stm

This is rather interesting.


Basically, as Obama's father is Kenyan, and at the time of his birth, the British ruled Kenya, he is half British legally. Some aspects of the US government are saying that as he is this, he cannot be president, of course, this pathetic notion imo has been rejected.

Still, it is rather cool that the future leader of the US is part British =P

Opinions please.

Not very shocking. Virtually every US president, with the exception of the two Roosevelts, Eisenhower, and Vanburen, trace their ancestry back to the British islands. We have been ruled by a series of Anglo Saxon/Celtic/ Scottish men since the dawn of the nation.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.

I know its just crazy. :tongue:

Edit: I wonder if we could count this as a thriving Muslim Democracy since our dear leader is a Muslim? What do you think Ann?

Old bullshit is old.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.

You're still trying to get over it because it's not there. It's difficult to hurdle something that you can't see because you're blinded by partisan asshattery.

Colonies / US; Same thing in my book. Just as we are the same person our entire lives from our birth to our death.

That might apply to some. I would hope that I am much different at 38 than I was at 18.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.

Excuse me. You're in my seat.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.I know, man. Wtf was the majority of America smokin'? :p
(I want some!)
You're still trying to get over it because it's not there. It's difficult to hurdle something that you can't see because you're blinded by partisan asshattery.Srs post is much too srs.

Excuse me. You're in my seat.

pwned

pwned

The fact is, "we" didn't elect anybody.

The so called "election" of Obama was orchestrated by Zionists, working through the Vatican, manipulating key members of the Presbytarians, in concert with Mormons, in order to advance the global aspirations of the New World Order.

Buy guns and ramen noodles, you won't be sorry.

Excuse me. You're in my seat.

Maybe Ann can sit in your lap? :eek:

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.
im still trying to get over our electing a piss-poor muslim who eats spam sushi, and celebrates christmas with ham at dinner.

dont we have enough troubles with jehova without bringing allah down on our asses?

You can be legally half-British? I didnt know they split citizenship like that..

*Looks at his UK and US passports*

Yep

So, since all my grandparents were born in the British Raj, does that make me part British? How does Obama's dad's citizenship automatically extend over to him?

Britain automatically extends citizenship to children of citizens, no matter your place of birth. That's why I have UK citizenship despite being born in Pakistan.

<snip>
Finally though, no one is sure if being born outside the US to US parents (or parent) qualifies one as a natural born citizen under the Constitution to hold the presidency. The question has not come up yet to SCOTUS.

Well, one can either be a natural-born citizen or a naturalised citizen. If you are not naturalised, then you must have been natural-born, no matter where in the world you were born.

This, incidentally, applies to me as well.

Excuse me. You're in my seat.

Baldwin for Christ++

The fact is, "we" didn't elect anybody.

The so called "election" of Obama was orchestrated by Zionists, working through the Vatican, manipulating key members of the Presbytarians, in concert with Mormons, in order to advance the global aspirations of the New World Order.

Buy guns and ramen noodles, you won't be sorry.

The plastic ends on shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.

The plastic ends on shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.

The eagle flies at midnight. Charlie has the bassoon at the shed. The Italian professor has landed his balloon in the New World.

The eagle flies at midnight. Charlie has the bassoon at the shed. The Italian professor has landed his balloon in the New World.

Colonel Mustard, with the gun, in the living room!

Its just the first step in our plan to set up the Anglophone Empire, and CONQUER THE WORLD!!! MWAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!...


Ahem...uh...sorry, lol...

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.

The fact is, "we" didn't elect anybody.

The so called "election" of Obama was orchestrated by Zionists, working through the Vatican, manipulating key members of the Presbytarians, in concert with Mormons, in order to advance the global aspirations of the New World Order.

Buy guns and ramen noodles, you won't be sorry.

Oh...please stay, pleeeeaaaassseeee stay and post some more.

This...this is just delicious!

The plastic ends on shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.

Anti-sinister in fact. Just ask the sinister people. Why are there no sinister anglets ? Oppression by Dexter, that is why !

Oh...please stay, pleeeeaaaassseeee stay and post some more.

This...this is just delicious!

Yeah, cordite-scented Ramen really is quite tasty.

The fact is, "we" didn't elect anybody.

The so called "election" of Obama was orchestrated by Zionists, working through the Vatican, manipulating key members of the Presbytarians, in concert with Mormons, in order to advance the global aspirations of the New World Order.

Buy guns and ramen noodles, you won't be sorry.

You forgot to mention the gray space aliens, Gnomes of Zurich, and the Vampire Cabal.

You forgot to mention the gray space aliens, Gnomes of Zurich, and the Vampire Cabal.

Please, the Gnomes backed McCain, it's the Faeries that was involved in this plot to steal the election for Obama!

Yeah, cordite-scented Ramen really is quite tasty.

Number one seller in Palestine!

I'm still trying to get over the fact that "we" elected a muslim.

I know its just crazy. :tongue:

Edit: I wonder if we could count this as a thriving Muslim Democracy since our dear leader is a Muslim? What do you think Ann?

Ann said "Kill 'em all and convert them to Christianity" and the United States ends up as a crown jewel of the Global Caliphate™. I wonder if that's coincidence or not...

Ann said "Kill 'em all and convert them to Christianity" and the United States ends up as a crown jewel of the Global Caliphate™. I wonder if that's coincidence or not...

How do we convert them if they're dead?

Oh right...the Mormons....

How do we convert them if they're dead?

Oh right...the Mormons....

Zing!

The eagle flies at midnight. Charlie has the bassoon at the shed. The Italian professor has landed his balloon in the New World.

In the Symphonic Olympics, I always bet against the double reeds.