NationStates Jolt Archive

I have loved others and others have loved me (not in the romantic way, mind you); I must say that the feeling might be positive, but it is hardly as pleasant as it is portrayed in popular culture. I find coffee, reading, cigars, wargames, fencing, along with many other activities far more enjoyable than love. Is love overrated?

I tend to end up starting to fall in love, and have only actually succeeded once. Always with the wrong people. Yeah, I am prone to agree.

I tend to end up starting to fall in love, and have only actually succeeded once. Always with the wrong people. Yeah, I am prone to agree.

I am not referring merely to romantic love, but to any type of love for any human in general, be they friends, family, or lovers.

No. When you are actually head-over-heels in love with someone who loves you back, it's a great deal more amazing than anything pop culture says on the subject.

no its not overrated.

but you have to be very careful with it.

I am not referring merely to romantic love, but to any type of love for any human in general, be they friends, family, or lovers.

Non romantic love has always been the most rewarding thing in my life. Romantic love has been like getting my toenails pulled.

Best I can do...

I don't know. I gotta say, skiing is way more enjoyable when I'm doing it with somebody I love. As is sky diving. And that doesn't even count the time I made love while skydiving...

No. When you are actually head-over-heels in love with someone who loves you back, it's a great deal more amazing than anything pop culture says on the subject.

What if sex is not involved?

Love hurts, but it is worth it with the right person, but the sad fact is many don't end up with the right one

I don't know. I gotta say, skiing is way more enjoyable when I'm doing it with somebody I love.

Fencing is more enjoyable for me when I am engaging someone whom I dislike.

no its not overrated.

but you have to be very careful with it.

Why?

Why?
because it clouds your judgement.

because it clouds your judgement.

So it's like power, except it requires false pretenses to acquire?

Scratch that: So it's like power?

I've never fallen in love but I do love my family and friends. Most of the time it's just in the background and I will find other activities more enjoyable. I don't actively think "I love this person", I just do and it means I care. So no, it's not overrated.

Love is not overrated, and even if it was, you're just asking an opinion. My opinion to that question is open ended, I see no right answer. What I will say is that romantic-love definitely is misrepresented by most of pop culture, or even culture itself. It's not magical, noble nor transcendental, esp. how it's often viewed in comparison to lust. It is essentially the same sort of thing as sexual response, just in another form. It's a chemical response just like a sexual response is. A simple and natural biological phenomenon. The circumstances may be often more nuanced from a social perspective, but it still is essentially a biochemical reaction just like the other one. I do not respect this romantic-love thing in the same way most overindulged emos do.

Love hurts, when you bang the cervix.

Wow. Im shocked you made this thread TPE.

Shocked I say. No, really, shocked. This is my shocked face.

No, provided you really are in love, and are loved back, its not overrated. Its not portrayed accuratly in popular culture. They tend to leave out the best part. That source of constant, reliable companionship that is unlike anything else you'll ever experiance with someone else.

Why is everybody bringing-up "romantic love" when I made it clear in my OP that it is not mainly what I am referring to?

Why is everybody bringing-up "romantic love" when I made it clear in my OP that it is not mainly what I am referring to?

Im talking about all love.

What if sex is not involved?

I don't believe I said anything about sex.

Wow. Im shocked you made this thread TPE.

Shocked I say. No, really, shocked. This is my shocked face.

Does that mean your opinion of me is hitting new lows faster than the stock-market, or that you believe I have a mental disorder?

No, provided you really are in love, and are loved back, its not overrated. Its portrayed accuratly in popular culture. They tend to leave out the best part. That source of constant, reliable companionship that is unlike anything else you'll ever experiance with someone else.

Is anything truly reliable or constant?

So it's like power, except it requires false pretenses to acquire?

Scratch that: So it's like power?
i dont know that id call it power.

but love is a consideration in your life that can lead you to make bad decisions by over-valuing it.

hiding your murderous son in the attic to keep him from the police, closing out your IRA account to give the money to your deatbeat boyfriend for a new car, spending the holidays with your mother even though you know she will spend the entire time putting you down.

that kind of thing.

Fencing is more enjoyable for me when I am engaging someone whom I dislike.

I say the same for fighting. But remember, unless you're throwing your ski-pole between the legs of the guy next to you on the Black Diamond runs, skiing doesn't really involve trying to actively injure somebody. Of course, dealing with guys cutting you off does often prompt some sort of retaliatory behavior.

Does that mean your opinion of me is hitting new lows faster than the stock-market, or that you believe I have a mental disorder?


I said neither. I implied your predictability. If you want to take that as a flame, be my guest, I wont be able to stop you.


Is anything truly reliable or constant?

Yes.

is it really love or is it just a deep dark fear we all have of growing old and alone and being unable to get laid with out paying for it.

I don't believe I said anything about sex.

"Head-over-heels" is generally confined to sexual love, unless I am greatly mistaken.

"Head-over-heels" is generally confined to sexual love, unless I am greatly mistaken.

One can be romantically in love with someone without fucking their brains out.


Devout Christians do it all the time.

No. When you are actually head-over-heels in love with someone who loves you back, it's a great deal more amazing than anything pop culture says on the subject.

/thread.

I fully agree with Poli on the subject. When you're in love with someone and they're in love with you, in can be more painful and yet more wonderful than anything that could be depicted in pop culture.

I said neither. I implied your predictability.

Sarcasm; probably the former assumption on my part was correct.


If you want to take that as a flame, be my guest, I wont be able to stop you.

Not at all.

Yes.

Not love, surely?

Is love overrated?

Depends somewhat on what you mean by love, how you think it is rated, and how you think it should be rated, but the short answer is "NO."

is it really love or is it just a deep dark fear we all have of growing old and alone and being unable to get laid with out paying for it.
theres the problem, eh?

its damned hard to tell sometimes.

Is anything truly reliable or constant?

Yes.

"Head-over-heels" is generally confined to sexual love, unless I am greatly mistaken.

No, if anything, it is confined to romantic love. One can be in love with someone and never fuck them, and I was not talking about what fucking someone is like, but what loving someone is like.

However, one can remove all references to romantic love from my previous statement, and it still stands. Genuine love, whether romantic, platonic, familial, whatever, is an amazing thing, and could not be overrated.

Of course love is overrated; look at the ratings. "Love conquers all." No it doesn't, that's false advertising. In fact, love doesn't even make all that effective a melee weapon.

"head over heels" generally refers to romantic love. However, "heels over head" is a fun way to do the other kind.

Not love, surely?

Yes, love. Surely.

theres the problem, eh?

its damned hard to tell sometimes.

that's true. though i suspect their isn't a difference. every time i fall in love it seems different and better then last time. but in reality i know its the same feeling i am just trying to downplay the lass failure and get my hopes up for this time.

I think our minds create the environment most conducive to what we want. And we want to not be alone. and we call this fear love.

Not love, surely?

Ive found it to be so.

No, if anything, it is confined to romantic love. One can be in love with someone and never fuck them, and I was not talking about what fucking someone is like, but what loving someone is like.
Indeed, you can be in love with someone and never even kiss them and only hug them very rarely.

However, one can remove all references to romantic love from my previous statement, and it still stands. Genuine love, whether romantic, platonic, familial, whatever, is an amazing thing, and could not be overrated.

Yes. This kind of "above everything else" mentality isn't confined to romantic love.

"head over heels" generally refers to romantic love. However, "heels over head" is a fun way to do the other kind.

I thought head over heels was just the love where you knocked the girl down and drug her to your cave by her heals.

that's true. though i suspect their isn't a difference. every time i fall in love it seems different and better then last time. but in reality i know its the same feeling i am just trying to downplay the lass failure and get my hopes up for this time.

I think our minds create the environment most conducive to what we want. And we want to not be alone. and we call this fear love.
its certainly part of human nature to want companionship--lets call it love.


and i would not dispute that "desperation love" is love. but it may not last long and it may not lead to the best decisions. many women take up with men who are bad for them and keep in the relationship long after they know its bad for them. but they are in LUUUUUUV and give that far more weight in their decision making than it deserves.

No. When you are actually head-over-heels in love with someone who loves you back, it's a great deal more amazing than anything pop culture says on the subject.

Ok, I have freinds I love. The closest and dearest person in the world to me right now is my "Sister" Ebbonie. She is closer to me than my own little sister is and we don't keep anything secret from each other; lots of people think that the two of us are an odd couple; I am about 7 years older than she is and have been her mentor since she was in Junior High School. We care totally about one another, and since my depression she has returned every bit of mentorship and caring I have showed her. There are no hidden feelings, no attractions, and nothing sexual involved in our relationship at all; its the truest love I have ever known. Its also the most rewarding experience of my entire life.

Haha, even familial love is really just an evolutionary survival bond/trait, just like romantic-love and the urge to have sex.

"head over heels" generally refers to romantic love. However, "heels over head" is a fun way to do the other kind.

Haha, true enough! :tongue:

its certainly part of human nature to want companionship--lets call it love.


and i would not dispute that "desperation love" is love. but it may not last long and it may not lead to the best decisions. many women take up with men who are bad for them and keep in the relationship long after they know its bad for them. but they are in LUUUUUUV and give that far more weight in their decision making than it deserves.

guys are poor decision makers too. keep taking back the girl who sleeps with your friend. keeps trying to save the girl who doesn't want to be saved.
keeps giving food too and otherwise helping that girl after she is on the streets.

Ok, I have freinds I love. The closest and dearest person in the world to me right now is my "Sister" Ebbonie. She is closer to me than my own little sister is and we don't keep anything secret from each other; lots of people think that the two of us are an odd couple; I am about 7 years older than she is and have been her mentor since she was in Junior High School. We care totally about one another, and since my depression she has returned every bit of mentorship and caring I have showed her. There are no hidden feelings, no attractions, and nothing sexual involved in our relationship at all; its the truest love I have ever known. Its also the most rewarding experience of my entire life.

Sounds wonderful. :)

guys are poor decision makers too.

I do love your consistant blanket statements about gender. I really do.

Sounds wonderful. :)

It is, but a tthe same time I look for something similar in a romantic relationship and so it might actually be hurting me there.

It is, but a tthe same time I look for something similar in a romantic relationship and so it might actually be hurting me there.

Well, the problem would be expecting the same thing from a romantic relationship right off the bat - as you said, you've known your best friend for years, so it would indeed be unrealistic to expect the same level of comfort and rapport with someone you've just met. However, there's nothing wrong with wanting your romantic relationships to get there in time. :)

I do love your consistant blanket statements about gender. I really do.

No need to fight about it, both genders are stupid.

I do love your consistant blanket statements about gender. I really do.

Guys are poor decisions makers too.... except for KoL who has never made a singular mistake in romance.

People fear the truth and when they're at odds with it do much to avoid it. Truth is one thing that is not overrated.

Well, the problem would be expecting the same thing from a romantic relationship right off the bat - as you said, you've known your best friend for years, so it would indeed be unrealistic to expect the same level of comfort and rapport with someone you've just met. However, there's nothing wrong with wanting your romantic relationships to get there in time. :)

I don't expect anything coming into a relationship, or in fact, anything I willingly enter into period.

I do love your consistant blanket statements about gender. I really do.

They are almost as endearing as greed and death's consistent blanket statements about race, ethnicity, etc.

guys are poor decision makers too. keep taking back the girl who sleeps with your friend. keeps trying to save the girl who doesn't want to be saved.
keeps giving food too and otherwise helping that girl after she is on the streets.
that sounds familiar....

yeah. and that is the danger of love.

Guys are poor decisions makers too.... except for KoL who has never made a singular mistake in romance.

Ive made just as many mistakes as women have.

But apperantly, youre the new hivemind, so whatever you say goes man.

*goes and fucks up his relationship cause the hivemind said its his gender roll*

Ive made just as many mistakes as women have.

But apperantly, youre the new hivemind, so whatever you say goes man.

*goes and fucks up his relationship cause the hivemind said its his gender roll*
you know you could take a generalization as a generalization. if the shoe doesnt fit, you dont have to wear it.

They are almost as endearing as greed and death's consistent blanket statements about race, ethnicity, etc.

sense i am target of of a rant. in all fairness the incorporation of the word 'too' at the end of my first statement would mean as well. And since with few exceptions one is either male or female. I technically made a blanket statement about humanity.

Ive made just as many mistakes as women have.

But apperantly, youre the new hivemind, so whatever you say goes man.

*goes and fucks up his relationship cause the hivemind said its his gender roll*

in the context of the conversation i was in, as well as use the modifier 'too' at the end of the sentence I made a generalization about both genders.
I mean if your going to be a nitpicky asshole at least be a correct nitpicky ass hole.

sense i am target of of a rant.

If you were the target of a "rant," I would have said more than one vague, humorous, general observation about your posting history. :eek:

in all fairness the incorporation of the word 'too' at the end of my first statement would mean as well. And since with few exceptions one is either male or female. I technically made a blanket statement about humanity.

In all fairness, this is true. :wink:

that sounds familiar....

yeah. and that is the danger of love.

Id prefer never to get so weak. but i always end up as such. i so would live with out emotions if given the chance.

Id prefer never to get so weak. but i always end up as such. i so would live with out emotions if given the chance.
and be a robot?

no thanks.

the pains of failed love teach us to be more careful in the future. its hard to get it right but if you look around you youll see hundreds of couples in good loving relationships.

Love is only overrated when you are not getting loved on by someone, in a romantic way. I know this, because I have been there before. But when you get loved on, and love someone back, its the best feeling ever. :)

If you haven't experienced love, you can't say something's better than it.

and be a robot?

no thanks.

the pains of failed love teach us to be more careful in the future. its hard to get it right but if you look around you youll see hundreds of couples in good loving relationships.

then failing when i am not looking. part of the issue is people and couples focus on appearance. They hide from the public their failings and secret misery.

Love has never really worked out for me or any other kind of attachment if I think about it. Usually I am far more successful when I detach myself to the people I am interacting with. This does include people I am closer to (best friends, family, etc).

However, I have been known to give in to emotion at times and have had good karma because of it. It really depends on the who, the what, the when, and the where.

then failing when i am not looking. part of the issue is people and couples focus on appearance. They hide from the public their failings and secret misery.
its true that you cant judge from the outside. but in today's world few people remain in painful relationships for long. hence the high divorce rate.

and few of those who have failed at love never try it again.

its true that you cant judge from the outside. but in today's world few people remain in painful relationships for long. hence the high divorce rate.

and few of those who have failed at love never try it again.

love appears to be nothing but a cycle of failure. outlaw monogamy and the world would be more interesting at least.

love appears to be nothing but a cycle of failure. outlaw monogamy and the world would be more interesting at least.
if you dont break up, one of you dies eh?

you dont "win" the game of love. you love today and work on tomorrow

love appears to be nothing but a cycle of failure. outlaw monogamy and the world would be more interesting at least.

No, I think just your attempts are a cycle of failure.

if you dont break up, one of you dies eh?

you dont "win" the game of love. you love today and work on tomorrow

imgine if everyone could just get sex when they wanted. and this whole possessiveness BS know as love were outlawed. life would be better.

imgine if everyone could just get sex when they wanted. and this whole possessiveness BS know as love were outlawed. life would be better.

We get it. Youre bitter. You and TPE should make a facebook group or something.

We get it. Youre drunk . You and TPE should make a facebook group or something.

fixed. dont worry i will sleep it off soon enough.

imgine if everyone could just get sex when they wanted. and this whole possessiveness BS know as love were outlawed. life would be better.

Population control would be a bitch though...

On a more serious note humans are pack animals. We don't feel right unless we are in a group that we can relate to. While it is true that what you say will make life better for a lot of people there just as many people who prefer to be called his [man/women] or her [man/women]. People also enjoy the ability to call their love ones similar things. It is a matter of belonging not of sexual tension.

This also means family. I would rather have a permanent father/mother type of family then a daddy/mommy-for-the-day-atron! type of family.

However; I am generalizing so I could be wrong, but so are you for that matter. Love, because of its open ended definition, is a very confusing subject.

One of these days you're finally going to make a thread asking, "Am I a misanthrope/schizoid?" And on that day, I will say, "Yes. Now go on about your life."

One of these days you're finally going to make a thread asking, "Am I a misanthrope/schizoid?" And on that day, I will say, "Yes. Now go on about your life."

It will somehow be tied in with the implication that love is irrational, Im sure.

Why yes, it is.

Why yes, it is.

Speaking of predictable...

It will somehow be tied in with the implication that love is irrational, Im sure.

Love is irrational. So are favorite colors.

I don't see how this is a problem.

Love is irrational. So are favorite colors.

I don't see how this is a problem.

I missused the word. My point about how predicatable TPE stands.

Perhaps I should have said "He'll tell us how far superior his logic is to ours"

Love 'tis not over rated.

It just kind of hurts. Sometimes.

Is love overrated?
Never.

One can be romantically in love with someone without fucking their brains out.


Devout Christians do it all the time.

Romantic love still requires sexuality as the base.

I missused the word. My point about how predicatable TPE stands.

Perhaps I should have said "He'll tell us how far superior his logic is to ours"

I am sure you are happier than myself; what better test of logic is there than that?

Romantic love still requires sexuality as the base.

Says who?

I missused the word. My point about how predicatable TPE stands.

Perhaps I should have said "He'll tell us how far superior his logic is to ours"

Oh yes, I know. I'm simply giving my response to such an assertion. If love is illogical, then I don't want to be logical. But I'm probably one of NSG's most irrational posters already, anyway.

Says who?

Freud has been born again.

Romantic love still requires sexuality as the base.

According to what manual?

Says who?

Myself. For instance, I highly doubt a heterosexual could "fall in love", using common phrasing, with someone of his/her own sex. There could certainly exist love, but persons one has sexual intercourse will have more value.

Hmm... maybe.

We do seem to overromanticize love somewhat--and maybe have a bit of a tendency to glorify irrational, uncontrolled love more than we should.

Myself. For instance, I highly doubt a heterosexual could "fall in love", using common phrasing, with someone of his/her own sex. There could certainly exist love, but persons one has sexual intercourse will have more value.

Meethinks you shouldn't opine on a subject about which you know little.

(Although I recognize everyone heeding such advice would virtually eliminate NSG.)

According to what manual?

What I mean is that without a desire for intercourse, consciously or unconsciously, this type of love could not be born. It might exist via multiple facets, but its "glue" will always be sexuality, due to hormones or social upbringing.

Agree or disagree with this, but not forget that this thread is, I say again, not about romantic love.

There could certainly exist love, but persons one has sexual intercourse will have more value.

You don't think "platonic" friendships can have as much "value" as romantic/sexual relationships? Why not?

Myself. For instance, I highly doubt a heterosexual could "fall in love", using common phrasing, with someone of his/her own sex. There could certainly exist love, but persons one has sexual intercourse will have more value.

Really? So, for example, elderly people who no longer desire or are physically capable of intercourse suddenly stop loving each other? :rolleyes:

Really? So, for example, elderly people who no longer desire or are physically capable of intercourse suddenly stop loving each other? :rolleyes:

The handicapped can't love. They can't get stiffys. :wink:

Then there are also animals of a different species. Many people have a very strong bond with a pet that they would never think about having intercourse with, but love just as much as their human lover.



Ten bucks says someone is going to make a smart ass remark.

It will somehow be tied in with the implication that love is irrational, Im sure.

Nether is life!

Is anything truly reliable or constant?
Yes. Death.

Also taxes, I hear.

Depends somewhat on what you mean by love, how you think it is rated, and how you think it should be rated, but the short answer is "NO."
^^This. Love is not overrated. Love consistently lives up to or exceeds its hype. Love is always the most spectacular of whatever it is at any given moment -- pleasure, pain, comfort, anxiety, fulfillment, disappointment, companionship, loneliness, etc, etc, etc. Few things pack as much of an experiential wallop as love does.

Haha, even familial love is really just an evolutionary survival bond/trait, just like romantic-love and the urge to have sex.

Eating food is "just" an evolutionary survival trait, too, yet it affords some of the most intense, memorable, and pleasurable or displeasurable experiences known to humankind. It has spawned its own form of art which binds whole societies together, even helps define cultural identities. It is a driving factor in economies, politics, and history. And it inspires other artforms as well, including visual arts and poetry and literature. Not bad for a simple drive to digest nutrients to stay alive.

I venture to suggest love (of all kinds) is just as engaging as eating.

So I fail to see why a thing being an evolutionary survival trait earns it the downgrading qualifier of "just."

Meethinks you shouldn't opine on a subject about which you know little.

^^Also this. These periodic threads about how worthless love is smack of someone trying to justify his own ignorance of the subject by suggesting it's not worth finding out about.

Love isn't overrated, it just means different things to different people. It's not an all-conquering force of amazingness that everyone will enjoy if they find the right people, but it is certainly extremely rewarding to those who do enjoy it.

I, for one, am both a romantic, an avid fencer, and enjoy smoking clove cigarettes. If I had to choose one, I would definitely say love, but that is just because it happens to be the most rewarding in my mind. As there is no need to choose one, I do all of them separately, in whatever ratio I feel brings me the most pleasure. (I also do them all separately because fencing, loving, and Djarum Blacks do not make a good combination...)

If love does not feel like the greatest thing in the world to you, it doesn't mean you should stop trying to love, or think it's overrated, it's just not your favorite thing. Doesn't mean it isn't mind-blowing for others. Some people hate your cigars/my cigarettes, doesn't make them overrated to those who enjoy them.

Myself. For instance, I highly doubt a heterosexual could "fall in love", using common phrasing, with someone of his/her own sex. There could certainly exist love, but persons one has sexual intercourse will have more value.

Ah, well then. Discussion over. TPE has spoken:rolleyes:

Myself. For instance, I highly doubt a heterosexual could "fall in love", using common phrasing, with someone of his/her own sex. There could certainly exist love, but persons one has sexual intercourse will have more value.

I personally love my best friends more than most anyone I engage in sexual activity with.

Myself. For instance, I highly doubt a heterosexual could "fall in love", using common phrasing, with someone of his/her own sex. There could certainly exist love, but persons one has sexual intercourse will have more value.

um...well, being a heterosexual, no, they probably wouldn't have romantic love (though, look to strong homosocial bonds, and you will find them to be highly similar, if not identical to romantic heterosexual bonds...there just isn't sex.)

I can be in love with a member of the opposite sex, and never even touch them. I can be in love with a member of the same sex, and still never touch them. Love in an emotion and has no requirement of physicality.

For example, I have been in love with a girl before. The feeling I had towards them was identical to that between my best friend and I. The only difference? I didn't want to fuck my best friend. Neither relationship had "more value", and that value sure as hell didn't come from the fact that she was a good lay.

imgine if everyone could just get sex when they wanted. and this whole possessiveness BS know as love were outlawed. life would be better.
darlin' you can have sex whenever you want. its called masturbation.

darlin' you can have sex whenever you want. its called masturbation.

That's not sex. After all it's called masturbation.

That's not sex. After all it's called masturbation.
of course its sex.

and there is a reason why we want more that just the sort of sexual release we get from it and that is implied by G&D's notion of having sex whenever we want without a relationship being involved.

That's not sex. After all it's called masturbation.
People who belittle masturbation aren't doing it right.

of course its sex.

If masturbation is sex, then talking to yourself is public speaking.

If masturbation is sex, then talking to yourself is public speaking.
talking to yourself is speaking.

talking to yourself is speaking.

You missed the "public" part.

People who belittle masturbation aren't doing it right.

LOL!

thats a damn near siggable quote.

You missed the "public" part.
its a bad analogy with the public in it.

I'd say, generally speaking, it is overrated.

1. Romantic love - you fall head over heels in love and walk around in a rosy fog. Then one day you wake up, he's gone, so's your grandmother's antique gold watch and your diamond engagement ring.
2. Love between friends (no - not with benefits) - You grow up together, BFFs, then she steals your boyfriend, drops him and comes back wanting to be friends again. This becomes a pattern in your friendship (which doesn't last too much longer).
3. Family love - you can't choose your family. Sometimes, you wish you could. In spite of the ups and downs, it's probably the only love worth the effort.

Hey, I think I just discovered my theme song! *wanders over to the theme song thread.*

its a bad analogy with the public in it.

It would work if he said "if jerking off at the community pool is sex...".

its a bad analogy with the public in it.

Not at all. With the public part it just destroys your arguement.


I agree with Ssek. If masterbation is sex, talking to yourself is public speaking.


Both require other parties involved, and when those other parties are removed, its something totally different. See?

its a bad analogy with the public in it.

No actually it was kind of the point. Sigh. Nevermind, Bill Clinton. Masturbation is now sex. STDs can be gotten from yourself, since they are transmitted through sex.

hahaha now thats a bad image!

Not at all. With the public part it just destroys your arguement.


I agree with Ssek. If masterbation is sex, talking to yourself is public speaking.


Both require other parties involved, and when those other parties are removed, its something totally different. See?
perhaps you arent making a differentiation between sex and sexual intercourse.

No actually it was kind of the point. Sigh. Nevermind, Bill Clinton. Masturbation is now sex. STDs can be gotten from yourself, since they are transmitted through sex.
that must make kissing sex since it can transmit certain stds.

that must make kissing sex since it can transmit certain stds.

Why not? The more the merrier. Everything can be sex!

*sexes the thread*

Why not? The more the merrier. Everything can be sex!

*sexes the thread*

is it legal to sex a thread?

or is it illegal like dp'ing a midget....

Why not? The more the merrier. Everything can be sex!

*sexes the thread*
you should probably think through the definition of sex on your own for a while.

If you haven't experienced love, you can't say something's better than it.

How do you define love anyway? Everyone talks about it as if it's a known factor, but so far as I've seen, there aren't any defining attributes.

that must make kissing sex since it can transmit certain stds.

Your semantic nitpicking aside, theyre essentially the same in the context we're discussing.

is it legal to sex a thread?

or is it illegal like dp'ing a midget....

"I swear, officer - I thought she was just a midget!"

you should probably think through the definition of sex on your own for a while.

Yeah OK. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sex)

sex
   /sɛks/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [seks] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. either the male or female division of a species, esp. as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
2. the sum of the structural and functional differences by which the male and female are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.
3. the instinct or attraction drawing one sex toward another, or its manifestation in life and conduct.
4. coitus.
5. genitalia.
–verb (used with object)
6. to ascertain the sex of, esp. of newly-hatched chicks.
—Verb phrase
7. sex up, Informal.
a. to arouse sexually: The only intent of that show was to sex up the audience.
b. to increase the appeal of; to make more interesting, attractive, or exciting: We've decided to sex up the movie with some battle scenes.
—Idiom
8. to have sex, to engage in sexual intercourse.

For the record, the definition of coitus is "sexual intercourse, esp. between a man and a woman."

I have loved others and others have loved me (not in the romantic way, mind you); I must say that the feeling might be positive, but it is hardly as pleasant as it is portrayed in popular culture. I find coffee, reading, cigars, wargames, fencing, along with many other activities far more enjoyable than love. Is love overrated?

Frankly, I feel like my life would be pretty meaningless without love. It's important to love myself, but also to feel as though people love me. My children's love, the love of my family and friends, romantic love...without it, food tastes like ashes, books bore me, and music is empty.

"I swear, officer - I thought she was just a midget!"




they day i take part in DP'ing a midget is the day I go to jail.

and the day i get out i'll double-fist a midget.

Your semantic nitpicking aside, theyre essentially the same in the context we're discussing.
because you can kiss yourself and that would still be kissing?

it is in any case not on topic.

"I swear, officer - I thought she was just a midget!"



Yeah OK. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sex)



For the record, the definition of coitus is "sexual intercourse, esp. between a man and a woman."
now that you have consulted the dictionary, think it through on your own to figure out just what it means in real life.

since you have no ideas of your own, and i can read the dictionary on my own, AND its off topic, maybe you can start a thread on it later when you have done some thinking about it.

now that you have consulted the dictionary, think it through on your own to figure out just what it means in real life.


In real life, people do not take the term "sex" to include masturbation. In real life the question "Did you have sex?" is not correctly answerable by the reply "Yes, I put on Debbie Does Dallas and jerked off."

since you have no ideas of your own, and i can read the dictionary on my own

Apparently you can't.

, AND its off topic, maybe you can start a thread on it later when you have done some thinking about it.

This pretense you're doing where I don't know about "real life" or haven't "thought about it" is pure nonsense, and it's condescending.

If you want to start a thread on it, you go ahead and do that. "Why I think masturbation is sex." But you're going to have to do better than this if so.

In real life, people do not take the term "sex" to include masturbation. In real life the question "Did you have sex?" is not correctly answerable by the reply "Yes, I put on Debbie Does Dallas and jerked off."



Apparently not.



This pretense you're doing where I don't know about "real life" or haven't "thought about it" is pure nonsense, and it's condescending.

If you want to start a thread on it, you go ahead and do that. "Why I think masturbation is sex." But you're going to have to do better than this if so.
what part of it being off topic dont you understand?

what part of it being off topic dont you understand?

I understand that you were fine with it until right about the time your argument got shot down.

If it was off topic, you shouldn't have made your absurd claim about masturbation to begin with.

I understand that you were fine with it until right about the time your argument got shot down.

If it was off topic, you shouldn't have made your absurd claim about masturbation to begin with.
it fit with the back-and-forth i was having with G&D but was never meant to start a discussion of what is and is not sex.

and that is still off topic. if you want to discuss it. start a new thread. im really not interested.

it fit with the back-and-forth i was having with G&D but was never meant to start a discussion of what is and is not sex.

and that is still off topic. if you want to discuss it. start a new thread. im really not interested.
I would like to add a supporting vote to the "not interested" motion on the grounds that sex/not sex discussions fail because nobody wants to talk about half of their topic. However, I would like to point out that talking to yourself in public is public speaking. ;)

Now, back to the thread.

Love to me is both the best and worst thing on earth....


its the best because when you are in love, and it is going well. You feel on top of the world. But when shit hits the fan, it is the single worst thing you could ever go through in your life.

Love is the most complex yet the greatest thing in life to achieve.


..that is my opinion at least

I would like to add a supporting vote to the "not interested" motion on the grounds that sex/not sex discussions fail because nobody wants to talk about half of their topic. However, I would like to point out that talking to yourself in public is public speaking. ;)

Now, back to the thread.
especially if you stand on a box!

ya ya, not the topic. i be dood.

In real life, people do not take the term "sex" to include masturbation.

As always when this argument arises, I link you to the best essay I've found so far on the subject: Are We Having Sex Now Or What? (http://www.gretachristina.com/arewe.html) Take from it what you will, but it's a worthwhile read.

Why is everybody bringing-up "romantic love" when I made it clear in my OP that it is not mainly what I am referring to?

If you really love your family, for example, you wouldn't find fencing more "enjoyable". It's not love.

Does that mean your opinion of me is hitting new lows faster than the stock-market, or that you believe I have a mental disorder?

You and I have already discussed how you most definitely are disordered.

But, that doesn't really make a difference.

is it really love or is it just a deep dark fear we all have of growing old and alone and being unable to get laid with out paying for it.

I'm going to address some of this, even though it's pointless because it's greed and death.

...I think a deep dark fear of growing old and being alone (or a fear of THEM growing old and being alone) makes us fool ourselves into loving someone even though we have no reason to any more.

Indeed, you can be in love with someone and never even kiss them and only hug them very rarely.

I know. And it sucks. And she's just so gorgeous. ;)

You don't think "platonic" friendships can have as much "value" as romantic/sexual relationships? Why not?

I think it has just as much value, and I wish I had more platonic friendships. That love can be as powerful as a romantic or family relationship.

People who belittle masturbation aren't doing it right.

I'd say, generally speaking, it is overrated.

I just worked out why you can be so bitter. ;)

...Talking to yourself is public speaking...

I'm such a good public speaker. :p

Love to me is both the best and worst thing on earth....*snip*
Love is the most complex yet the greatest thing in life to achieve.

Indeed. It is wonderful and awful; happy and sad... it's so complicated and difficult to express or explain...

no its not overrated.

but you have to be very careful with it.

This ^
As always. :)

And to give a bleedin-heart hippie perspective on it, there's not a lot else like love, really. Not even close.
I do *not* mean infatuation
I do *not* mean lust
I do *not* mean obsession
Just to be sure.

Real, shared, love (be it romantic love, love for a child or a parent or other forms of love) is the most beautiful thing and feeling. But it should not be confused with crush, sexual lust, and is not directly related to sexual intercourse. Those are way overrated, to me, compared to real, deep, love.

I have loved others and others have loved me (not in the romantic way, mind you); I must say that the feeling might be positive, but it is hardly as pleasant as it is portrayed in popular culture. I find coffee, reading, cigars, wargames, fencing, along with many other activities far more enjoyable than love. Is love overrated?

It may have been pointed out before, but if so I'll just repeat it:

Love in itself isn't overrated.
However, people underestimate the effort required to make love work, and expect it to "just happen" and then to just go on unchanged. As a result, people get severely disappointed.

It may have been pointed out before, but if so I'll just repeat it:

Love in itself isn't overrated.
However, people underestimate the effort required to make love work, and expect it to "just happen" and then to just go on unchanged. As a result, people get severely disappointed.

Indeed. It takes an enormous amount of time and energy. But if the people involved are willing to spend that time and energy, they can remain in love for a very very long time.

people like the idea of panacea. so that they can, or so they dream, wish, pretend to believe, they can look/pretend to be, responsible, without having to actually pay attention to what the're doing, to the real causalities, often at odds with prevailing beliefs, and because of this would take the work of honestly studying them.

so people throw arround this word "love" like it was some kind of majic wand. "all you need is love". well not exactly ALL you need. it IS something we'd be better off being motivated by then say for example hatred or prejudice. (which was the point of "all you need is love", NOT that by pretending to "be loving" everything would automatically get all better, though of course, for above mentioned reasons, a lot of people chose to take it that way. and then of course, religeous leaders took up that latter as an obvious opportunity to exploit and further their cause of stranglehold on popular psychie)

so no we get to where we are with a lot of phoney pretentions of "love" having brought us back to where we were, with the word having been corrupted into something resembling window dressing.

love, as in concern for others, don't get me wrong, is a very very good thing, unless it is used as an excuse for nonthought, as all too often happens.

the heart, really, of what is overrated about it, is this whole nonsense, that if you care enough about someone or something, you don't have to worry or thing about what you're actually doing, and everything will all turn out just fine because you do.

what a pretty fantasy. not love, which again there's nothing wrong with, but the expectation of it sufficing as a substitute for responsible comprehension and self dicipline.

I love my family and friends. They provide me with a support network that I simply couldn't survive without. I don't think its possible to overrate that. Romantic love...well I've never really gone there, too many other issues in my life I'm trying to deal with to get involved in that realm. From looking at other people, though, it seems to make them happy. I don't think lust can be the sole foundation for a long-term relationship, as its rare that it remains at the same strength over many years. It has to be something deeper than that.

No, I don't think love is overrated. But it does hurt.

Love in itself isn't overrated.

That statement doesn't make sense to me. Being "overrated" or "underrated" isn't an inherent property of something. It's related to the perception or assessment of it. "Love" is overrated because it's commonly perceived as the single most important component of everyone's life. Emotional connection with others is necessary, unless you're a sociopath, but those connections don't have to be "love," which is just a buzzword for popular music and Hallmark cards.

That statement doesn't make sense to me. Being "overrated" or "underrated" isn't an inherent property of something. It's related to the perception or assessment of it. "Love" is overrated because it's commonly perceived as the single most important component of everyone's life. Emotional connection with others is necessary, unless you're a sociopath, but those connections don't have to be "love," which is just a buzzword for popular music and Hallmark cards.

I don't know about you, but my love for my BF is the single most important emotional connection I have ever had. So no, I wouldn't call that overrated.

Indeed. It takes an enormous amount of time and energy. But if the people involved are willing to spend that time and energy, they can remain in love for a very very long time.

I think one of the problems of most relationships is that one of the partners will give up as soon as it starts looking a bit like work or effort. The expectation is that it will just sort of fall into place all by itself.
And once one has decided to opt out, it's not exactly a relationship any more...

I don't know about you, but my love for my BF is the single most important emotional connection I have ever had. So no, I wouldn't call that overrated.

Well, in the interest of full disclosure, my girlfriend recently broke up with me and said that I am "borderline autistic." I avoided mentioning that I hadn't realized that she was my girlfriend, but I did ask how she had seen my medical records.

I think one of the problems of most relationships is that one of the partners will give up as soon as it starts looking a bit like work or effort. The expectation is that it will just sort of fall into place all by itself.
And once one has decided to opt out, it's not exactly a relationship any more...

Indeed. It's just not going to work if one or both people are unwilling to put in the effort.

This ^
As always. :)

And to give a bleedin-heart hippie perspective on it, there's not a lot else like love, really. Not even close.
I do *not* mean infatuation
I do *not* mean lust
I do *not* mean obsession
Just to be sure.
oh come on.

even infatuation and lust are kinda cool.

its not like we start out in "true love". it has to start somewhere. that place is usually infatuation and lust. (obsession is not a good thing, however. no matter that it is an intense experience)

the first blush of love is emotionally amazing. and its so powerful that its not unusual to risk losing the deeper longer lasting love that you already have to pursue a new person (even if it never goes over the line physically) its stupid to do it, but its not unusual.

its not over rated. its very dangerous.

Well, in the interest of full disclosure, my girlfriend recently broke up with me and said that I am "borderline autistic." I avoided mentioning that I hadn't realized that she was my girlfriend, but I did ask how she had seen my medical records.
oh lord that belongs on the one sentence story webpage (even if it is 2 sentences)

is it true?

I think one of the problems of most relationships is that one of the partners will give up as soon as it starts looking a bit like work or effort. The expectation is that it will just sort of fall into place all by itself.
And once one has decided to opt out, it's not exactly a relationship any more...
its equally problematical to keep working on a relationship that should be ended. some people dont know when they should walk away and find someone more suitable.

its equally problematical to keep working on a relationship that should be ended. some people dont know when they should walk away and find someone more suitable.

Good point.
Although the only situations like that I've ever seen where when one part had essentially lost interest and stayed on just for convenience.

oh lord that belongs on the one sentence story webpage (even if it is 2 sentences)

is it true?

Yes, although it was part of a much longer argument. Which, now that I think of it, was precipitated by a disagreement over whether Buffy is post-feminist.

Yes, although it was part of a much longer argument. Which, now that I think of it, was precipitated by a disagreement over whether Buffy is post-feminist.
you should put it in as your sig. its brilliant.

No, I don't think love is overrated. But it does hurt.


Only when you want it to, dear.

Only when you want it to, dear.

Sometimes it hurts when you don't want it to. That's the beauty and the crux of it.

oh come on.

even infatuation and lust are kinda cool.Never said they wasn't. Sheesh, look at my posting history. :p
Just that they ain't what i was angling at.

its not like we start out in "true love". it has to start somewhere. that place is usually infatuation and lust. (obsession is not a good thing, however. no matter that it is an intense experience)There is, also, immense admiration and respect that can do it too.

the first blush of love is emotionally amazing. and its so powerful that its not unusual to risk losing the deeper longer lasting love that you already have to pursue a new person (even if it never goes over the line physically) its stupid to do it, but its not unusual.

its not over rated. its very dangerous.In most peoples' experience, 'tis quite true.

Sometimes it hurts when you don't want it to. That's the beauty and the crux of it.

Yes. Sometimes it hurts so bad, rather than the hurts so good feeling.

Yes. Sometimes it hurts so bad, rather than the hurts so good feeling.
Something like the inbox and outbox both being stuffed at the same time, past capacity?

Both love and casual sex are great.

Yes. Sometimes it hurts so bad, rather than the hurts so good feeling.

Indeed it is.

Actually, most people don't love properly, I think. You love, which is really a hope that the person will spoil you. When they fail to spoil you, you feel betrayed. At least, most of the time.

You love someone, so you spoil them so they'll stay because it feels good with them there. Then you hope they'll make you feel good so you'll stay because they want you near. The key thing here is if they're not making you feel good so you stay, then you will eventually be hurt by them, so there's no point in staying. In which case, the hardest thing to do in love is to recognize that they don't love you and walk away.

Actually, most people don't love properly, I think. You love, which is really a hope that the person will spoil you. When they fail to spoil you, you feel betrayed. At least, most of the time.

You love someone, so you spoil them so they'll stay because it feels good with them there. Then you hope they'll make you feel good so you'll stay because they want you near. The key thing here is if they're not making you feel good so you stay, then you will eventually be hurt by them, so there's no point in staying. In which case, the hardest thing to do in love is to recognize that they don't love you and walk away.

You have an odd concept about what and how people love.:confused: