NationStates Jolt Archive

I think every culture has a solstice celebration or festival. At the time of year when the daylight hours short and night is long, something is needed to break the dreariness. The further north you go (in the Northern Hemisphere) the longer, louder, brighter and rowdier the celebrations become (at least in Europe and Asia). Christians even appropriated aspects of the Pagan celebrations in order to commemorate the Birth of Christ (whose real birthday was probably in early Spring) and make it easier for Pagans to convert.

We put up a tree and lights (both Pagan symbols), feast and exchange small gifts - pretty standard fare, but, because of my Wiccan associations, I tend to include a lot of Pagan symbols in the foods and decorations. And, because I like to be eclectic (or maybe ecumenical is a better term), I try to include some Jewish symbols as well - latkes and dreidls come to mind.

How do you celebrate the solstice?

By killing Raiders, Slavers and Super Mutants.

My family celebrates Christmas, but we don't usually decorate for it. I want to celebrate the Solstice too but don't know anyone who does; can't afford to hold a celebration myself.

By killing Raiders, Slavers and Super Mutants.

That's how you should celebrate any occasion.

With a feast at Christmas and pastry at New Years'. I don't let the silliness of the religious origins of those days spoil the fun - that'd be a shame. :p

That's how you should celebrate any occasion.

Fat chance on the Super Mutants. I've killed two of them. Gotta get to D.C.

Get wasted, and then blow all those gift cards on oodles of drugs and tattoos.

Fat chance on the Super Mutants. I've killed two of them. Gotta get to D.C.

Don't let them surround you.

Get wasted, and then blow all those gift cards on oodles of drugs and tattoos.

Giftcards for drugs and tattoos? :tongue:

Giftcards for drugs and tattoos? :tongue:

And hookers. Can't forget about the hookers. You must have missed the giftcard thread.

I opted for a nice secular winter solstice tree this year, compliments of my better half

Deck the halls and fal-la-la and presents. That sort of thing. The midwinter turning of the year is "wish fulfillment" time, so for me the whole period from solstice to new year is all about gift-giving and hospitality and partying and fortunetelling and clearing the slate of the old year for a fresh start in the new.

My mom has holiday control issues, so I just let her dictate how Christmas goes at her house, and I don't know enough people I like in Boston to throw the kind of party I'd like, so it stays pretty quiet. At my house, there will be a wreath on the door. I might try another potted tree this year, and see if I can keep it alive. The longest I ever kept one going was two years. There will be food put out for the jays and squirrels, even though that pisses off my landlady, who has no soul. On New Year's there will be cocktails and Chinese food (weird Boston thing), and plans made for the future.

I celebrate the solstice by burning a wooden statue of a catholic priest...im hoping this year i can just burn a real one instead.

The Summer solstice for myself isn't anything special it occurs on the 21st and I don't do anything and neither do most Australians as far as I am aware. Though it does give me an idea.

I would like there to be some celebration something about the changing of the seasons but alas we don't. But then we can celebrate anything for any reason at any time.

Something I didn't understand with the combination of the old pagan festivals with Christmas, why not just have two separate days? Why not just celebrate at different times of the year? Wouldn't people love to have two holidays (celebrations) instead of just one?

The Summer solstice for myself isn't anything special it occurs on the 21st and I don't do anything and neither do most Australians as far as I am aware. Though it does give me an idea.

I would like there to be some celebration something about the changing of the seasons but alas we don't. But then we can celebrate anything for any reason at any time.

Something I didn't understand with the combination of the old pagan festivals with Christmas, why not just have two separate days? Why not just celebrate at different times of the year? Wouldn't people love to have two holidays (celebrations) instead of just one?
You don't get it, do you? You just don't.

Not all holidays are just random days to go shopping, BE. Everyone on the planet who lives where there is a winter has midwinter holidays that have to be at midwinter because...wait for it... they're about MIDWINTER.

Solstices and equinoxes aren't just funny words tv weathermen like to say. They are astronomical events that affect the planet's seasons. So if you're going to have a holiday that marks that, you sort of have to have it when it happens.

As for the Christmas/Yule overlap, take that up with the Catholics. It wasn't the pagans' idea, trust me. By the way, it wasn't the Protestants' idea, either. If they'd had their way in my part of the US, we wouldn't celebrate Christmas at all. So as both a New Englander and a polytheist, don't complain to me, I had nothing to do with it. EDIT: Also, I think their reason for not having two separate days was because the Catholics were trying to wipe out the pagans and their culture. Also, we do have two separate days now. The winters solstice is not on December 25.

EDIT2: By the way, both the summer and winter solstices, as well as the spring and autumn equinoxes move a bit. They're not always precisely on the 21st of their months. Sometimes they come a day earlier or later. Just fyi.

You don't get it, do you? You just don't.

Not all holidays are just random days to go shopping, BE. Everyone on the planet who lives where there is a winter has midwinter holidays that have to be at midwinter because...wait for it... they're about MIDWINTER.

Solstices and equinoxes aren't just funny words tv weathermen like to say. They are astronomical events that affect the planet's seasons. So if you're going to have a holiday that marks that, you sort of have to have it when it happens.

Woah blow up at me next time.

Yes I know they may have midwinter holidays because it is midwinter, and I know what the solstice and the two equinoxes are I am aware that they must have a holiday when it happens, I was asking why can't they have two holidays. One for the solstice and one for Christmas. Nothing to do with having it in Spring. I don't understand why you were telling me this. Though I sense it may be a sensitive issue.

As for the Christmas/Yule overlap, take that up with the Catholics. It wasn't the pagans' idea, trust me. By the way, it wasn't the Protestants' idea, either. If they'd had their way in my part of the US, we wouldn't celebrate Christmas at all. So as both a New Englander and a polytheist, don't complain to me, I had nothing to do with it. EDIT: Also, I think their reason for not having two separate days was because the Catholics were trying to wipe out the pagans and their culture. Also, we do have two separate days now. The winters solstice is not on December 25.

Now can I get more info on why the Protestants didn't want to celebrate Christmas at all? And I wasn't complaining to you it was just a general question.

And I know it is on two separate days it is just that someone mentioned that the pagan celebrations were merged with Christmas and I was just asking a general question, "I wonder why they didn't want to celebrate both?"

Now as for midwinter, why are the season different in the North now when I say that I mean Winter beginning in November rather than December (which is when our Summer starts). Not only that I was always lead to believe that the solstices signified the start of the seasons. Or was that just the two equinoxes? The Vernal equinox signifying the start of spring and the autumnal equinox signifying the start of autumn?

EDIT2: By the way, both the summer and winter solstices, as well as the spring and autumn equinoxes move a bit. They're not always precisely on the 21st of their months. Sometimes they come a day earlier or later. Just fyi.

Yes I was aware of that.

I got a few books on celebrations around the world and in my classroom we're learning about/"celebrating" (like, celebrating diversity, not observing religiously) all different kinds of winter/new year festivals. I have a very diverse class, so it's fun for them to talk about how they celebrate--many of my kids celebrate Christmas along with Diwali/Divali, Ramadan, etc.

Woah blow up at me next time.
Okay, if you insist. *makes note to blow up at BE next time*

Yes I know they may have midwinter holidays because it is midwinter, and I know what the solstice and the two equinoxes are I am aware that they must have a holiday when it happens, I was asking why can't they have two holidays. One for the solstice and one for Christmas. Nothing to do with having it in Spring. I don't understand why you were telling me this. Though I sense it may be a sensitive issue.
It's not sensitive. It's obvious. I'm telling it to you because it's so obvious, yet you still asked about it. An obvious question demands the obvious answer.

Now can I get more info on why the Protestants didn't want to celebrate Christmas at all?
By all means: http://masstraveljournal.com/features/1101chrisban.html

The Puritans and their descendants considered the holiday "superstitious," by which they meant too Catholic. It was always looked down upon. As indicated in the above tourism article, it was even banned by law for a brief time in the 1600s. To this very day, Christmas in the parts of New England originally dominated by the Puritans (such as here in Massachusetts) is a lackluster affair compared to what it is in NYC and more Catholic-influenced parts of the region.

And I wasn't complaining to you it was just a general question.
You are too literal-minded. "Don't complain to me" is a joking remark. Again, isn't it obvious that (a) I personally would have had nothing to do with the holiday overlap, (b) my comment was extreme to the point of being ridiculous, and (c) being a polytheist and living in New England have nothing to do with each other? I was kidding, BE. *sigh*

And I know it is on two separate days it is just that someone mentioned that the pagan celebrations were merged with Christmas and I was just asking a general question, "I wonder why they didn't want to celebrate both?"
Like I said, they were combined by the Catholics for the express purpose of overwriting the pagan culture as expediently as possible -- mostly by just changing the labels and packaging of everything people did. If it used to be pagan because you were a pagan, hey-presto, it suddenly became Christian and so did you.

Now as for midwinter, why are the season different in the North now when I say that I mean Winter beginning in November rather than December (which is when our Summer starts). Not only that I was always lead to believe that the solstices signified the start of the seasons. Or was that just the two equinoxes? The Vernal equinox signifying the start of spring and the autumnal equinox signifying the start of autumn?



Yes I was aware of that.
Ask a meteorologist. I don't keep track of that myself. I've heard it variously that they are all the start of a new season, that they are all the mid-point of their season, and that some are starts and some are mid-points, but I don't know which.

Okay, if you insist. *makes note to blow up at BE next time*

lol

It's not sensitive. It's obvious. I'm telling it to you because it's so obvious, yet you still asked about it. An obvious question demands the obvious answer.

But that's not what I asked at all.

By all means: http://masstraveljournal.com/features/1101chrisban.html

The Puritans and their descendants considered the holiday "superstitious," by which they meant too Catholic. It was always looked down upon. As indicated in the above tourism article, it was even banned by law for a brief time in the 1600s. To this very day, Christmas in the parts of New England originally dominated by the Puritans (such as here in Massachusetts) is a lackluster affair compared to what it is in NYC and more Catholic-influenced parts of the region.

Thanks.

You are too literal-minded. "Don't complain to me" is a joking remark. Again, isn't it obvious that (a) I personally would have had nothing to do with the holiday overlap, (b) my comment was extreme to the point of being ridiculous, and (c) being a polytheist and living in New England have nothing to do with each other? I was kidding, BE. *sigh*

Oh ok

Like I said, they were combined by the Catholics for the express purpose of overwriting the pagan culture as expediently as possible -- mostly by just changing the labels and packaging of everything people did. If it used to be pagan because you were a pagan, hey-presto, it suddenly became Christian and so did you.

Yeah ok.

Ask a meteorologist. I don't keep track of that myself. I've heard it variously that they are all the start of a new season, that they are all the mid-point of their season, and that some are starts and some are mid-points, but I don't know which.

I think I will have to, thanks anyway.

The solstices just aren't celebrated in Japan. Now, the EQUINOXES, THOSE have special importance to Shinto and are actual holidays.

So, in Japan, I celebrate Christmas, desperately trying to have an American one as opposed to a Japanese one and I celebrate the New Year, which is the BIG holiday in Japan.

Christmas is hangin' at home with the folks, but New Years is at a festival with music, young people, drugs and booze.

Winter solstice is often on my birthday. It (solstice) is not something we often celebrate. The kids celebrate Christmas and advent (or vice versa) and stuff. I don't really celebrate anything, I observe, but I wouldn't say I'm jubilant about it.

I wanna know, who hear celebtrates the solstice and in what manner? I don't, but I have always been interested in doing so, not for any type of religious reason but because it is something I always wanted to do.

I wanna know, who hear celebtrates the solstice and in what manner? I don't, but I have always been interested in doing so, not for any type of religious reason but because it is something I always wanted to do.

Just have a party mate and call it a solstice party.

Christians even appropriated aspects of the Pagan celebrations in order to commemorate the Birth of Christ (whose real birthday was probably in early Spring)...
Aye, shepherds dinnie watch their flocks by night in the middle of fucking December.

How do you celebrate the solstice?
My family, being mostly Christian, celebrates Christmas, but it's really just a big family get-together. It's the only time of the year I get to see certain siblings, aunts, uncles, etc., so for me it's a nice time.

Occasionally I'll go to Winter Solstice celebrations in (or outside) Edinburgh or Glasgow. Lot's of fire and booze.

Luverly.



The Puritans and their descendants considered the holiday "superstitious," by which they meant too Catholic.
Or, at leat, not referenced in Scripture, and thus superstitious Catholic nonsense.

Or, at leat, not referenced in Scripture, and thus superstitious Catholic nonsense.
Yep, and it was "idolatry" too, because of all the fawning on Baby Jesus, according to some of the more dour New England types who apparently didn't even like babies. I'll bet they kicked puppies, too. "Idolatry" was one of the big swipes the Puritans liked to take at the older churches.

I wanna know, who hear celebtrates the solstice and in what manner? I don't, but I have always been interested in doing so, not for any type of religious reason but because it is something I always wanted to do.
Well, I have some Wiccan friends who invite me to some of their open sabbat/esbat nights, but they are big ritual types and I'm not terribly immense at fancy rituals with recitatives and whatnot. Also they tend to overschedule themselves, so it's often a pain to get together with them. Otherwise, I'm the only non-Christian or Jewish believer I know in Boston, so I don't do much. But when I did do stuff for solstice, back in NY, it was, like I said earlier, partying with feasts, bright lights and tree trimming, gift exchanging (because there's a symbolism to that), and fortunetelling games for the new year.

Yep, and it was "idolatry" too, because of all the fawning on Baby Jesus, according to some of the more dour New England types who apparently didn't even like babies. I'll bet they kicked puppies, too.
Damn those Catholics with their tinsel and fun!

"Idolatry" was one of the big swipes the Puritans liked to take at the older churches.
Being brought up in a dour, Presbyterian church, I can still attest to the anti-idolatry stance of Protestant fun-bags; albeit at a level far less than 1600's Puritans.

I remember some older members of the congregation raising grumbles when the new minister brought a nativity scene into the kirk...

Damn those Catholics with their tinsel and fun!


Being brought up in a dour, Presbyterian church, I can still attest to the anti-idolatry stance of Protestant fun-bags; albeit at a level far less than 1600's Puritans.

I remember some older members of the congregation raising grumbles when the new minister brought a nativity scene into the kirk...
Damn them to the everlasting fires of HECK!!! :D

I swear, these people just crack me up. I lol. I can't help it. :D

EDIT: Someone -- I can't remember who -- once defined a "Puritan" as someone who is oppressed by the haunting suspicion that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

I swear, these people just crack me up. I lol. I can't help it.
Och, the weird thing is they're mostly wee old women who always have a boiled sweet and a kind smile waiting for you. They've just very clear ideas about what's acceptable, and what's not, within the kirk. And when the minister has gone too far.

And you don't get that many hardcore ant-'idolators' any more.

Someone -- I can't remember who -- once defined a "Puritan" as someone who is oppressed by the haunting suspicion that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.
I lol'd.

Och, the weird thing is they're mostly wee old women who always have a boiled sweet and a kind smile waiting for you. They've just very clear ideas about what's acceptable, and what's not, within the kirk. And when the minister has gone too far.

And you don't get that many hardcore ant-'idolators' any more.


I lol'd.
You don't get much anti-idolatry haranguing in New England anymore, either. Not since all those millions of Irish, Italian, and Portuguese Catholics moved in. But even so, in Massachusetts, which was Puritan Central, complete with witch trials and everything, you still don't get as much of a deal made over Christmas and Easter as we did in NYC. All the galas/festivals/events/etc. are for the saints' feasts here, rather than those two big holidays. It was the exact opposite in NYC. Though I've been here for years, and out of NYC for more years, the contrast is still very jarring to me (and even though I'm not Christian!).

EDIT: In fact, as I think of it, Christmas in NYC felt more like what I would imagine an old-timey solstice festival season would have felt like. The whole city was transformed by it, and it was very inclusive, with public displays big and small for every conceivable winter holiday being celebrated. The same household would both send and receive cards for Christmas, Hannukah, Eid, Diwali, and Yule, depending on what their friends were celebrating. Everyone went to everyone else's parties -- the party rounds would last weeks. Every store, public building and private house was decorated. In many residential neighborhoods, there was a weird kind of modern NY wassail-wandering tradition, where you'd tour the streets to admire the different houses' decorations, which could be quite an eyeful, let me tell you. I am not exagerrating when I say there were some neighborhoods that could be identified from airplanes at Christmas time. Some homeowners would even be out on their lawns, handing out hot chocolate and cookies to passersby. And the driving force behind it all was a general mood. New Yorkers tend to be in a better mood during the midwinter holiday season than at any other time of year or for any other reason. Hell, there's a whole Christmas carol about it.

Compare that with Boston, where house decorations are subdued when they exist at all, except for a few "holiday houses" dotted here and there, owned by people who seem desperate to make up for the lack of involvement among their neighbors, and where hardly any businesses put up decorations visible to the streets. The cities put lights in trees and wreaths on lamp posts, but they're often not very successful, cheer-wise (like the bizarre strings of blue lights in a small park by Harvard that make the trees at night like like giant deep sea creatures). Holiday events are all relatively expensive, ticketed, events that you have to travel to and which happen indoors where they can be kept nice and quiet. Really the only thing that really screams "Holiday!" in Boston are the retail sales, which only underscore that classic American downer of the over-commercialization of the season. It's kind of depressing.

But even so, in Massachusetts, which was Puritan Central, complete with witch trials and everything, you still don't get as much of a deal made over Christmas and Easter as we did in NYC.
It's only in the past few decades that Christmas in Scotland has become anything more than a nice meal with the family and a few presents for the kids.

Up until 1958, Christmas wasn't a public holiday here; indeed, it was technically banned for 400 years prior to the 1950s. Once again, we've got John Knox and his dour Protestants to thank for that.

Instead Hogmany (New Years) was the big celebration, the time when everyone got a holiday and drank/ate to excess. So, if you want a traditional Scottish Christmas, get up and work! All the Christmassy 'traditions' we celebrate here are either English or American.

New Yorkers tend to be in a better mood during the midwinter holiday season than at any other time of year or for any other reason. Hell, there's a whole Christmas carol about it.
It always amuses me that The Pogues have become a Christmas standard.

It's only in the past few decades that Christmas in Scotland has become anything more than a nice meal with the family and a few presents for the kids.

Up until 1958, Christmas wasn't a public holiday here; indeed, it was technically banned for 400 years prior to the 1950s. Once again, we've got John Knox and his dour Protestants to thank for that.

Instead Hogmany (New Years) was the big celebration, the time when everyone got a holiday and drank/ate to excess. So, if you want a traditional Scottish Christmas, get up and work! All the Christmassy 'traditions' we celebrate here are either English or American.


It always amuses me that The Pogues have become a Christmas standard.
That wasn't actually the song I was thinking of, but yeah, they're good too. :D

I was thinking of the 1950s song "Silver Bells":

City sidewalk, busy sidewalks
Dressed in holiday style.
In the air there's
A feeling of Christmas.

Children laughing, people passing,
Meeting smile after smile,
And on every street corner you'll hear:

Silver bells, silver bells,
It's Christmas time in the city.
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring,
Soon it will be Christmas day.

City street lights,
Even stop lights,
Blink a bright red and green,
As the shoppers rush home
With their treasures.

Hear the snow crunch,
See the kids bunch,
This is Santa's big scene,
And above all this bustle you'll hear:

Silver bells, silver bells,
It's Christmas time in the city.
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring,
Soon it will be Christmas day.

The "silver bells" in question are the bellringers of the Salvation Army, collecting change outside department stores. To me, growing up, the sound of their bells and the smell of roasting chestnuts sold by street vendors were distinctive parts of the holiday experience.

Ah, I'm all nostalgic now. Thinking fondly about the past is another fine old midwinter tradition that people have been doing since before Christianity, too. *feels all misty*