NationStates Jolt Archive

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem has released graphic video footage showing settlers fighting with Palestinians in Hebron and shooting two men at close range in the hours after a settler house was evacuated by police yesterday.

The film, recorded by a Palestinian resident in Hebron, shows settlers attacking his house, which was in a valley close to the three-storey building where dozens of settlers were evicted by Israeli riot police. In the hours after the eviction, Jewish settlers rioted in Hebron, throwing stones at police and Palestinians and setting fire to Palestinian trees and attacking Palestinian homes. Most of the violence took place between the evicted house and the nearby hardline Jewish settlement of Kirya Arba.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/05/hebron-settlers-shooting-israel-palestinians

Interesting to see if theres arrests and proper charges brought, now that its on camera. Two fucken chances, I reckon....

Does anyone know if this has been on Israeli TV?

The minute I saw the title, I thought of Fallout.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03yt2jP0QA4Il/340x.jpg

Why can't we all just get along? :(

their just pissed off about being evicted and this is a tantrum (don't blame me I wanted Michael evicted)

Why can't we all just get along? :(

its an excuse to do some looting?

And they wonder why they get rockets shot at them on a near-daily basis?

Well, what do you expect? Both sides hate each other for such blind reasons of course neither side is going to be rational. The Israelis are not rational, and neither are the Palestinians. They...they're like an old man with a midget. (an irrational analogy for an irrational situation :-P)

Well, what do you expect? Both sides hate each other for such blind reasons of course neither side is going to be rational. The Israelis are not rational, and neither are the Palestinians. They...they're like an old man with a midget. (an irrational analogy for an irrational situation :-P)

This is one of the best descriptions of the conflict I've seen since LG's legendary "Different hats" theory! :tongue:

This is one of the best descriptions of the conflict I've seen since LG's legendary "Different hats" theory! :tongue:

*takes a bow* I strive only to please. :wink:

This is incredibly surprising. Perhaps the Palestinians will do something new and exciting like dropping a couple of Qassams on Sderot, I dunno if that's ever happened before either.

strange, the Jews of all people should understand what it means to be persecuted yet some of them go and do the same to the Palestinians as was done to them for many years in Europe.

Old man with a midget indeed

makes even less sense than that to me

This is incredibly surprising. Perhaps the Palestinians will do something new and exciting like dropping a couple of Qassams on Sderot, I dunno if that's ever happened before either.

They could surprise us even more. Maybe there's a complete role reversal going on, and the Palestinians won't fire rockets but will drop some laser-guided bombs from an aircraft they got their hands on (don't ask how, they may have built it out of lego or stolen it from the Swedes.)

It could be the beginning of a brave new world :)

Does anyone actually expect anything to come of this? This isn't the first time settlers have been filmed abusing Palestinians by bystanders or even victims and nothing productive has ever happened on the part of the Israeli police.

Well that's unsettling.

Uh, of course we heard about it... All the news are talking about the Israeli police clearing out that building taken by the settlers and how the settlers are reacting as usual.

I was referring to the specific incident, rather than the general rampage. I checked Ha'aretz earlier and it wasn't apparent.

I'll check the Jerusalem post under 'brave defender of settlment harrassed by rights group' and see what comes up

I'm not sure, though I don't see why it should get specific attention.

Edit: By this I mean that the news is reporting about the settlers reacting violently to the removal of the Jewish family from Beit Ha'meriva, using firearms against Palestinians, etc'... I don't see why this specific incident needs a special mention.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03yt2jP0QA4Il/340x.jpg

It looks like this dude is chucking some kind of pastry.

It looks like this dude is chucking some kind of pastry.

Israeli or Palestinian pastry?

Nuke 'em all. Peace in the Middle East.

Nuke 'em all. Peace in the Middle East.

That's my line. Another convert to thermonuclear genocide!

That's my line. Another convert to thermonuclear genocide!

I'm thinking just Israel and Palestine. One less thing for stupid fucking people to kill each other over.

I'm thinking just Israel and Palestine. One less thing for stupid fucking people to kill each other over.

It's a start.

Yep. The Israeli people really want peace.

I doubt charges will be brought.

Yep. The Israeli people really want peace.

I doubt charges will be brought.

:eek2:

Of course, it all makes sense now! They removed the settlers from Beit Ha'meriva to give them an excuse to shoot more Palestinians! How did I not see it before?!

:rolleyes:

:eek2:

Of course, it all makes sense now! They removed the settlers from Beit Ha'meriva to give them an excuse to shoot more Palestinians! How did I not see it before?!

:rolleyes:

Yep, thats not at all what I said. Or even implied. Try again.

Yep, thats not at all what I said. Or even implied. Try again.

Sorry, I just thought if you were omniscient and knew what the Israelis want, maybe I'm omniscient and know what you're trying to imply.

Don't judge all Israelis by these settlers - this is SHAS that ultra-right wing Brooklyn group who would quite happily commit genocide if it suited their purpose.

Their extreme actions may horrify moderate Israelis. These SHAS settlers are quite like the Mumbai terrorists in that they are hoping to provoke a backlash from the other side so that then they can play the victim and say why settlements in Palestinian land are essential for Israel's defence.
Also, beware of "Nuke 'em all" statements - even in jest lest you tempt fate. "One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day".... well think about tit-for-tat nuclear bombs.
Do we know who has the capacity for nuclear terrorism in the Middle East?

Nuke 'em all. Peace in the Middle East.

By the same logic, the rest of the world could have had a much happier post-war period if they'd clubbed together to nuke the US and USSR.

Stupid shit isn't reserved for certain specific nations.

Here's a bit more detail:

Hebron Settlers Forcibly Evicted from House of Dispute

Dec 4th, 2008 [Seattle Time] by Richard Silverstein

The Israeli government finally did what it should have done months ago and forcibly evicted 200 hardline settlers from the House of Dispute in Hebron after the Supreme Court ruled that the building had been ‘appropriated’ from the Palestinian owner based on fraud. Settlers had turned the building into a virtual headquarters of resistance to Israeli state authority and a showcase for violent opposition to a Palestinian presence.

What seems truly pathetic to me is that this nation based on democracy seemed so tied up in knots when it came to confronting the threat posed by the settlers’ defiance. Where firmness and resolve were required, vacillation ruled. This is to be expected when so much of the state apparatus has actually aided and abetted these same settlers. It’s almost as if one hand helps them while the other hand tries to undo what the first hand has done. A recipe for confusion and indecision.

We can only be thankful that Ehud Barak, who usually deserves no praise, finally put a stop to this ridiculousness. Now, however, the extremists are running rampant in Hebron itself attempting to make the entire city ungovernable. This puts even greater pressure on the military to confront them and end the anti-Palestinian pogrom.

Everything about this settler movement should revolt reasonable Jews. They’ve appropriate the sacred suffering of Jewish history and used it for their own partisan political purposes. This is simply appalling to me as a Jew:

As Palestinians watched from rooftops and windows, some settlers shouted at the troops, calling them Nazis. A few had sewn yellow stars on their shirts, like Jews had been obliged to under Hitler. On a wall near the confrontation, Hebrew graffiti declared, “There will be a war over the House of Peace.”

“House of Peace” my arse. Whose peace is it. The peace of the thief, the racist, the interloper, the hooligan, the hater. What kind of peace is that? Peace based on oppression, domination and forced submission of the Palestinians to their will?

I find the image sickening as well. Not because the settler is resisting. She has every right. But putting her 12 year old daughter in a situation in which SHE could be hurt. It’s appalling. A 12 year old should never be put in physical danger even for the sake of political principle. This is yet again an example of the ways in which settler extremist exploit their children in a feeble attempt at national emotional blackmail.

This is a battle designed to benefit the settlers. They feel they win by losing. And it’s only a single battle in a long war. So make no mistake that this is a major victory. It’s only a small one. The Hebronistas will make the state pay a price every step of the way in this process. And if the IDF is not more decisive than it was in this case, the Israeli nation and its greater interests will be dominated by a small band of hardline anti-Palestinian zealots. That’s hardly democracy.

And we in the American Jewish community are also at fault as J Street points out in this statement:

Groups like the Brooklyn-based Hebron Fund are actively working to undermine the possibility of a peaceful two-state solution to the conflict by continuing to financially underwrite the right-wing settler presence in Hebron. Elegant fundraisers in posh hotels…fuel the fires that the Israeli government must now extinguish before they consume the state of Israel itself.

The actions of settler extremists represent a grave threat to Israel’s democracy and its security. Americans who truly care about Israel and seek to secure its future as a democratic home for the Jewish people have for too long turned a blind eye to the damage being done with funds and support raised here that propel the settlers and their destructive agenda.

The Hebron Fund raises over $1-million every year to support this hooliganism and racial supremacism. Wealthy right wing Jews like Irving Moskowitz, with his California bingo empire, are instrumental in this work. Hotels like the Marriott chain welcome the aiders and abettors of lawlessness and violence into their banquet halls in return for cold hard cash. And the IRS gives these groups tax-exempt status in effect sanctioning their noxious agenda. We all better wise up if we ever want peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

I'm thinking just Israel and Palestine. One less thing for stupid fucking people to kill each other over.

So you're saying: people killing each other is stupid, so let's kill tens of millions of people?

So you're saying: people killing each other is stupid, so let's kill tens of millions of people?

Psst. I think it was in jest.:eek2:

Just nuke the whole damn place. Problem solved. :D

EDIT: Dang, Khadagar beat me. :tongue:

Sorry, I just thought if you were omniscient and knew what the Israelis want, maybe I'm omniscient and know what you're trying to imply.

Yeah, well, when your people consistantly vote in warhawks, and then do shit like this, claims that you "want peace" ring really fucking hallow.

Not that the Palastinians are any better. Israel just gets a free pass far too often.

Yeah, well, when your people consistantly vote in warhawks, and then do shit like this, claims that you "want peace" ring really fucking hallow.

Not that the Palastinians are any better. Israel just gets a free pass far too often.

Voting in warhawks doesn't mean we don't want peace, it means we don't think peace will arrive and want better security. And I didn't know Olmert was a warhawk.

Anyway, after the disillusionment with Kadima, I think we'll have to wait until the far-right really angers the moderates again before we get a non-right-wing PM again. But I'll see what happens next election, I'm not some political expert and can't predict these results with any kind of accuracy.

Thanks KOL and Benevulon for trying to raise the tone of the discussion.
I'm getting annoyed at jerk offs who think that "Nuke em all" slogans are in any way funny.

Lift your game you adolescents or go back to playing your Diablo games and leave the forum sites alone!!!!

Here's a bit more detail:

Hebron Settlers Forcibly Evicted from House of Dispute

Dec 4th, 2008 [Seattle Time] by Richard Silverstein

The Israeli government finally did what it should have done months ago and forcibly evicted 200 hardline settlers from the House of Dispute in Hebron after the Supreme Court ruled that the building had been ‘appropriated’ from the Palestinian owner based on fraud. Settlers had turned the building into a virtual headquarters of resistance to Israeli state authority and a showcase for violent opposition to a Palestinian presence.

What seems truly pathetic to me is that this nation based on democracy seemed so tied up in knots when it came to confronting the threat posed by the settlers’ defiance. Where firmness and resolve were required, vacillation ruled. This is to be expected when so much of the state apparatus has actually aided and abetted these same settlers. It’s almost as if one hand helps them while the other hand tries to undo what the first hand has done. A recipe for confusion and indecision.

We can only be thankful that Ehud Barak, who usually deserves no praise, finally put a stop to this ridiculousness. Now, however, the extremists are running rampant in Hebron itself attempting to make the entire city ungovernable. This puts even greater pressure on the military to confront them and end the anti-Palestinian pogrom.

Everything about this settler movement should revolt reasonable Jews. They’ve appropriate the sacred suffering of Jewish history and used it for their own partisan political purposes. This is simply appalling to me as a Jew:

As Palestinians watched from rooftops and windows, some settlers shouted at the troops, calling them Nazis. A few had sewn yellow stars on their shirts, like Jews had been obliged to under Hitler. On a wall near the confrontation, Hebrew graffiti declared, “There will be a war over the House of Peace.”

“House of Peace” my arse. Whose peace is it. The peace of the thief, the racist, the interloper, the hooligan, the hater. What kind of peace is that? Peace based on oppression, domination and forced submission of the Palestinians to their will?

I find the image sickening as well. Not because the settler is resisting. She has every right. But putting her 12 year old daughter in a situation in which SHE could be hurt. It’s appalling. A 12 year old should never be put in physical danger even for the sake of political principle. This is yet again an example of the ways in which settler extremist exploit their children in a feeble attempt at national emotional blackmail.

This is a battle designed to benefit the settlers. They feel they win by losing. And it’s only a single battle in a long war. So make no mistake that this is a major victory. It’s only a small one. The Hebronistas will make the state pay a price every step of the way in this process. And if the IDF is not more decisive than it was in this case, the Israeli nation and its greater interests will be dominated by a small band of hardline anti-Palestinian zealots. That’s hardly democracy.

And we in the American Jewish community are also at fault as J Street points out in this statement:

Groups like the Brooklyn-based Hebron Fund are actively working to undermine the possibility of a peaceful two-state solution to the conflict by continuing to financially underwrite the right-wing settler presence in Hebron. Elegant fundraisers in posh hotels…fuel the fires that the Israeli government must now extinguish before they consume the state of Israel itself.

The actions of settler extremists represent a grave threat to Israel’s democracy and its security. Americans who truly care about Israel and seek to secure its future as a democratic home for the Jewish people have for too long turned a blind eye to the damage being done with funds and support raised here that propel the settlers and their destructive agenda.

The Hebron Fund raises over $1-million every year to support this hooliganism and racial supremacism. Wealthy right wing Jews like Irving Moskowitz, with his California bingo empire, are instrumental in this work. Hotels like the Marriott chain welcome the aiders and abettors of lawlessness and violence into their banquet halls in return for cold hard cash. And the IRS gives these groups tax-exempt status in effect sanctioning their noxious agenda. We all better wise up if we ever want peace between Israelis and Palestinians.


Quoted For Its Vast Truthiness.

Nuke 'em all. Peace in the Middle East.

Nuke everyone, peace on Earth.

Actually, from what I've heard, there have been a number of incidents between Israeli settlers and Israeli soldiers. This could actually see a response.

And I wouldn't be so sure of a Likud victory. Kadima still has a shot, particularly if they ally with Labor. I for one hope to see Tzipi Livni in office.

Actually, from what I've heard, there have been a number of incidents between Israeli settlers and Israeli soldiers. This could actually see a response.

And I wouldn't be so sure of a Likud victory. Kadima still has a shot, particularly if they ally with Labor. I for one hope to see Tzipi Livni in office.

You, and anyone with sense. Netanyahu=dear o dear o dear.........

You, and anyone with sense. Netanyahu=dear o dear o dear.........

Yeah - Netanyahu in office = no peace process

Nuke 'em all. Peace in the Middle East.

A more peaceful solution would be the "amnesia gas". Gas the whole area with a drug that will make everyone forget who they are. It is even OK if they can remember the whole history of Israeli-Palestinian violence, as long as nobody can remember whether they are an Israeli or a Palestinian.

If Israel wants Peace they need to give Ground on Jerusalem...

Until theyre willing to compromise on that point, Im not seeing why we should support them...

A more peaceful solution would be the "amnesia gas". Gas the whole area with a drug that will make everyone forget who they are. It is even OK if they can remember the whole history of Israeli-Palestinian violence, as long as nobody can remember whether they are an Israeli or a Palestinian.

Not really. All it would do is just start it up all over again, except with the killing based on "They don't look like me".

Not really. All it would do is just start it up all over again, except with the killing based on "They don't look like me".

Really? Ive always thought they looked almost identical...

And I wouldn't be so sure of a Likud victory.

A Likud victory would be really, really unfortunate.

A Likud victory would be really, really unfortunate.

I'm not enough up on Israeli internal politics to even hazard a guess at an outcome (except that it'll be a coalition).

Even if the Likud isn't elected, there'll still be the problem of creating a coalition without Shas in it.

Nuke 'em all. Peace in the Middle East.
They'll nuke themselves sooner or later.

Even if the Likud isn't elected, there'll still be the problem of creating a coalition without Shas in it.

It depends on how the votes fall.

Actually, from what I've heard, there have been a number of incidents between Israeli settlers and Israeli soldiers. This could actually see a response.Olmert's gone ahead and called the actions of the Israeli settlers a pogrom.

If Israel wants Peace they need to give Ground on Jerusalem...

Until theyre willing to compromise on that point, Im not seeing why we should support them...

And what do you propose they do? Surrender Jerusalem to the Muslims?

There's a whole part of Jerusalem that's inhabited only by Jordanian Palestinians. Coincidentally, that's the part they want.

And what do you propose they do? Surrender Jerusalem to the Muslims?

Apart from anything else... sure, why not?

And what do you propose they do? Surrender Jerusalem to the Muslims?

Personally no...I dont think there is an easy solution to it...But the first step has to be to give ground on it...

I think the best option would be for it to be in its own jurisdiction like Vatican City...or maybe a DMZ under UN control...

And then the rest would be split between the two states...

There's a Myriad of problems associated with the plan, but there is with all others too...I just think thatd be the most fair way to do it...

And what do you propose they do? Surrender Jerusalem to the Muslims?

Ignoring that no one has said that, why not?

Ignoring that no one has said that, why not?

You know that's just Potato Boy emo-sturbating again with the added bit of The Brown Scare thrown in right?

You know that's just Potato Boy emo-sturbating again with the added bit of The Brown Scare thrown in right?

Probably, but I want to watch him try and argue this.

Ignoring that no one has said that, why not?

Actually, I suggest giving it to the Buddhists and kicking the Jews, Muslims, AND Christians out. If they can't share their toys they don't get to play with them.

Actually, I suggest giving it to the Buddhists and kicking the Jews, Muslims, AND Christians out. If they can's share their toys they don't get to play with them.

It Would be an interesting solution to the Tibetan Problem....

Actually, I suggest giving it to the Buddhists and kicking the Jews, Muslims, AND Christians out. If they can's share their toys they don't get to play with them.Give Jerusalem to Buddhists? That actually sounds like a good idea. That way, nobody can complain.

Other than the Buddhists who have to deal with the bitching from the Muslims, Jews, and Christians all day long, but who cares about them? :p

Olmert describes this incident as a 'pogrom'. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7770384.stm)

Strong words, I wonder what impact they'll have.

Olmert describes this incident as a 'pogrom'. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7770384.stm)

Strong words, I wonder what impact they'll have.

Now, I want to see the Israeli government use the same jack-booted thug techniques they use whenever the Palastinians do things like this.

If the Palastinians had done this, the military would have been in there within 10 minutes crushing the riots. A bunch of people would be jailed, and the water supply to the town would have been cut off.

Lets see that happen to these guys.

You know, given all the horrific atrocities Israel allegedly regularly engage in, it's strange that this whimsical confusing video is even thread worthy.

Give Jerusalem to Buddhists? That actually sounds like a good idea. That way, nobody can complain.

Other than the Buddhists who have to deal with the bitching from the Muslims, Jews, and Christians all day long, but who cares about them? :p

They're serene they can handle it. :p

Now, I want to see the Israeli government use the same jack-booted thug techniques they use whenever the Palastinians do things like this.

If the Palastinians had done this, the military would have been in there within 10 minutes crushing the riots. A bunch of people would be jailed, and the water supply to the town would have been cut off.

Lets see that happen to these guys.

Some homes would probably be bulldozed as well.

They're serene they can handle it. :p

Serenity is not of much help against guns, bombs and machetes, which you know the lunatic fringe on both ends would end up using to "reclaim" the place.

Now, I want to see the Israeli government use the same jack-booted thug techniques they use whenever the Palastinians do things like this.

If the Palastinians had done this, the military would have been in there within 10 minutes crushing the riots. A bunch of people would be jailed, and the water supply to the town would have been cut off.

Lets see that happen to these guys.They get free gifts of cake and pie.

They get free gifts of cake and pie.

And punch to wash down the pie.

Actually, I suggest giving it to the Buddhists and kicking the Jews, Muslims, AND Christians out. If they can't share their toys they don't get to play with them.

It Would be an interesting solution to the Tibetan Problem....

Give Jerusalem to Buddhists? That actually sounds like a good idea. That way, nobody can complain.

Other than the Buddhists who have to deal with the bitching from the Muslims, Jews, and Christians all day long, but who cares about them? :p

Plus, how do you terrorize a group that have been known to set themselves on fire in protest?

Now, I want to see the Israeli government use the same jack-booted thug techniques they use whenever the Palastinians do things like this.

If the Palastinians had done this, the military would have been in there within 10 minutes crushing the riots. A bunch of people would be jailed, and the water supply to the town would have been cut off.

QFT Amen.

Lets see that happen to these guys.

Like it's been mentioned, they'll be served Punch and Pie with a warning.

QFT Amen.



Like it's been mentioned, they'll be served Punch and Pie with a warning.

You think they'll get a warning?

You think they'll get a warning?

Silly me, they'll just get Punch and Pie.

I havent seen the Israeli apologist around this thread.

Looks like even they cant pretend this is justified.

I havent seen the Israeli apologist around this thread.

Looks like even they cant pretend this is justified.

Or they know the settlers are only going to get Punch and Pie so they don't bother trying.

I havent seen the Israeli apologist around this thread.

Looks like even they cant pretend this is justified.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Actually, Israeli Peace groups (and others) are denouncing these actions by the ultra-extremist settlers as a "pogrom":

[Middle East News Service comments: Daniel Levy, below is not alone in calling last weeks events a pogrom. He quotes Israel's Justice Minister, Daniel Friedman calling it a “shocking pogrom”. While Avi Issacharoff’s (second link) eyewitness account should convince anyone, no lesser an authority than Israeli PM Olmert has said that “The sight of Jews firing at innocent Palestinians has no other name than pogrom”
Levy’s item is aimed at a US audience but we have plenty of influential supporters of the settlement enterprise. The Australian media, while doing a better job than their US counterparts, was also somewhat reticent to call a pogrom a pogrom. Only SBS and the Australian Jewish News used the word. But as Levy points out what is important is not only telling the story but doing something about it as well. See Gush Shalom’s Adam Keller’s account of the Tel-Aviv demonstration below – Sol Salbe.]

[The independent Middle East News Service concentrates on providing alternative information chiefly from Israeli sources. It is sponsored by the Australian Jewish Democratic Society. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of the AJDS. These are expressed in its own statements








December 5, 2008
Israeli Settler Pogrom Against Palestinians; CFR/Brookings Report Suggests Linking U.S. Aid to Settlement Freeze
A week of Israeli settler outrages against Palestinians and against Israel's own security forces reached a crescendo over the last 24 hours with settlers opening fire on Palestinian civilians and unleashing violent disturbances across the West Bank. Israel's Justice Minister, Daniel Friedman, has just called the events a "shocking pogrom", journalists have described how their presence saved Palestinian residents of a home near Kiryat Arba from a lynching, and IDF sources described how the right wing activists "want to spark a religious war that would inflame the entire region." The belated IDF action in upholding a court order to evict settlers from a home that they illegally occupied in Hebron, led by Defense Minister Barak, was at least effective, although the same cannot be said of the limp-wristed measures taken in the face of settler rampages against Palestinians, and of the general approach to settler lawlessness.

While the Israeli press is full of graphic descriptions of the settler outrages, there has been remarkably little coverage in the American mainstream media, and as Jeff Goldberg points out on his Atlantic blog, there was no mention at all in the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organization's daily news digest (Daily Alert)--not surprising given that it is put together by the right-wing Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs led by Dore Gold. Settler extremism has become a strategic issue with implications for American policy, American private funding of settlements, and how to manage the security dynamic in the West Bank.

The litany of settler actions over this week makes for particularly bleak reading on a Friday night. On the walls of home and in mosques in the West Bank villages of Yatma, Sanjil, Turmus Ayya, and Isawiyya, graffiti has been scrawled reading "Mohammed the pig" and "Death to the Arabs", elsewhere cemeteries have been desecrated, Palestinian homes set on fire, olive trees uprooted, tires punctured, and yesterday two Palestinians were shot and seriously wounded by settler fire. Israeli security forces overseeing the evacuation of the Hebron house and sometimes trying to bring order were stoned and assaulted by settlers, along with the customary hurling of choice abuse, notably the word "Nazi". According to the Israeli Yedioth Ahronot newspaper, Ethiopian IDF soldiers "enjoyed" their own variation on the abuse theme, being told "niggers don't expel Jews".

All of this should not be described as madness. It was premeditated and there was a plan behind it that the Israeli establishment is calling a "price tag". In the immediate term, the settlers were hoping to prevent the evacuation of the Hebron house by setting off violence across the West Bank and by trying to provoke a Palestinian response that would in turn require the IDF to focus elsewhere and therefore be unable to carry out the Hebron mission. But the real goal was to send a signal that any future settler evacuation would carry a price far more bloody and devastating than the Gaza Disengagement of summer 2005--namely, to inflame the entire Occupied Territories, if not the region. The settlers (thus far at least) did not achieve that goal, but they have certainly caused great damage, and it would not be an exaggeration today to call settler extremism a potentially strategic destabilizing factor in the Middle East.

And yes I know, when I say settlers it is not all settlers, but let's not be naïve. Extremism is deeply entrenched in the settler movement. This does not apply to the economic settlers or what could be termed the "accidental settlers" close to the Green Line--their sin is one of indifference. But the settler movement has nurtured and produced this phenomenon of extremism, just read Akiva Eldar and Idith Zertal's "Lords of the Land", or Gershom Gorenberg's book "The Accidental Empire". The most noticeable aspect of the settler presence this week were the youths, often barely in their teens, and who might be described as Israel's child soldiers, high on the teachings of fanatical religious leaders. As Ben Caspit writes in today's Ma'ariv:

The hilltop youth...are not errant weeds, we are talking about a well-ordered organization with a hierarchy, with rabbis, with separate incitement, with a combat doctrine and with weaponry...they have messianic insanity in their eyes...This monster has to be stopped now. Afterwards, it will be too late.

In fact, this was the tone in much of the Israeli press (and not just in Haaretz) and from much of the Israeli establishment. Senior sources in the Israeli Prime Minister's office were quoted as saying "these Jewish terrorists are as bad and dangerous as Arab terrorists." The American mainstream media, which tends to get very excited at Arab violence, had precious little to say either in the print or electronic media.

Beyond the shock and condemnation, the lurch by hard-line settlers toward a more extreme and confrontational approach has implications for Israeli and American policies. On the Israeli side, the state long ago ceased to uphold its own laws when it comes to the coddled settler community. That community now poses a direct threat to Israel's survival as a democracy with a Jewish character, in which the rule of law is upheld. And as this week proved, the hard-line settlers have become a clear and present danger to Israel--only drastic measures will suffice.

But I want to focus for a moment on the consequences for American policy, and in particular for a new Administration. The U.S. is on paper opposed to settlement expansion. The U.S. narrative, though, has shifted. Initially settlements were characterized by the U.S. as "illegal"--that description was dropped by the Reagan Administration and never returned to. Settlements became no more than "unhelpful" and later on an "obstacle to peace"--a language which the Bush Administration has occasionally used. What the U.S. has not done is to take a firm, consistent, and unrelenting position that Israel uphold its commitment to a settlement freeze--and without such U.S. action, the Israeli cost-benefit calculation on settlement expansion vs. freeze is always skewed in favor of the former.

This week, the Council on Foreign Relations and the Saban Center at Brookings released a report in the form of a book, entitled "Restoring the Balance: A Middle East Strategy for the Next President", including a chapter addressing the Arab-Israeli conflict. One of its five key recommendations was for the U.S. to "press Israel to freeze settlement construction" (they also recommended bringing Hamas into the fold, but that's another story). The Report went on to suggest how this might be done: "Both public criticism of Israeli settlement policy as well as conditioning portions of aid to a settlement freeze can be effective in eliciting Israeli compliance." So that's Brookings and CFR--and it doesn't get much more establishment than them--linking U.S. aid to Israel to a settlement freeze. Interesting, methinks.

Many groups in the U.S. (including right-wing Christian Zionists) provide financial support to settlements and settler causes (see here and here), often to 501(c) 3s as tax-deductible, charitable contributions, and that is something into which an investigation is long overdue. Jewish groups in particular should be vocal in their opposition to settlements (see Bernard Avishai on J Street here at TPM). After the Shin Bet Chief spoke of certain settlers groups posing a security threat, my colleague Steve Clemons suggested on his blog that the U.S. investigate and place those in question on the Terror Watch List. U.S. efforts to support the Palestinian economy and ease the closure and checkpoints (for details see the U.N.'s OCHA website) are undermined most of all by the existence of settlements scattered throughout the West Bank, which are protected by the IDF, have their own access roads, whose residents demand freedom of movement, and whose existence largely dictates Israeli-imposed restrictions on Palestinian mobility.

American efforts at building up Palestinian security capacity are also compromised by the settler scourge. The Palestinian Security Forces (PSF) will be unable to stand by and watch for long as settler militants unleash their wrath on the Palestinian population--indeed their intention is to provoke a PSF response

And finally of course, the greatest threat to the entire two-state solution is the settlements enterprise. In short, there is no credible peace policy unless one is willing to get hard-assed about settlements--and that is true for both Israel and the U.S.

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Saturday 06/12/08
"Stop the settler pogrom" – 6/12 protesters demand immediate evacuation of army & settlers from Hebron

"No, we will absolutely not move aside. We have been demonstrating on this sidewalk, opposite the Defence Ministry gates, for more than twenty years – since the time of the First Lebanon War, You are not going to change the rules suddenly!" said activists of various peace groups in an angry exchange of words with the police, as the beginning of the protest against the settler pogrom in Hebron on Saturday night. The police tried to push demonstrators away from the sidewalk and move them to a plot of grass far from the street.

Within a few minutes after 7pm the debate was decided when hundreds of demonstrators streamed in. Peace-minded Israelis had been shocked and angered by the scenes of settlers indiscriminately attacking and burning Palestinian homes in "retaliation" for being evacuated under a court order by the army from a single house, and even shooting Palestinians at point blank range; news of the scheduled demonstration had spread quickly. The mass of arriving demonstrators ignored the police directives and spread along the sidewalk for a long distance on both sides of the Defence Ministry gates, with the police contenting itself in placing fences separating them from the road. A young woman, wearing a Peace Now t-shirt, was dragged by policemen and pushed by force onto the sidewalk, her fellows crying out "Police State! Police State!"

The demonstration had been organized in parallel by Peace Now and the (more radical) Peace Coalition, each one of which had mobilized several hundred participants. Demonstrators waved towards the ministry gates signs reading: "Hebron is burning on Barak's head", "The settler criminals and their rabbis – to prison!", "Evacuate Hebron Now!!!", "Stop settler terrorism", "Right wing violence is a dangerous plague", "Down with the occupation!", "Stop the Hebron pogrom!", "Army and Settlers out of Hebron", "No to Apartheid!", "Settler Council – criminal council", "Stop the lawlessness – evacuate Hebron", "Israel and Palestine, two states for two peoples", "Down with the occupation", "Get out of Hebron - Now!", "Dismantle the settlements, evacuate the settlers", "Hebron settlers – a bone stuck in the country's throat", "Your money pays for settler terror".

"Stop the settlerrorist gangs' pogrom in Hebron" read the sign held aloft by an older activist, each and every letter very neatly drawn – evidently, preparing it had taken hours. "Settlement is a war crime" read the sign of Gideon Spiro, who a few weeks ago went from Cyprus to Gaza in a siege-busting boat and was detained on his return.

Benny Gefen, a veteran activist whose soldier son had been killed in Lebanon, held a long sign which he had made himself: "The Yitzhar settlers have cut down or burned 10,000 olive trees in the village of Burin. The IDF's support for the settler pogromists is evil, a folly and a crime". At the corner of the sign appeared a photo of Gefen and another activist near the burned remnants of an olive tree with the caption: "Here stood an ancient olive tree for hundreds of years, until the Yitzhar settlers destroyed it".

A group of activists from Jaffa had the sign "No to settlement – in Hebron and in Jaffa", referring to the recent arrival of a group of West Bank settlers to establish a religious boarding school (Yeshiva) in the midst of Jaffa's last remaining Arab neighbourhood, with the proclaimed intention of "Juadaizing" Jaffa. Gush Shalom activists held aloft the "Two-Flags Flag", comprising the linked flags of Israel and Palestine, and ditsributed to by-passers stickers reading "I have no settler for a brother" and "There is no such thing as a legal settlement". A group of Italian and British activists stood with the European Peace Flag (Rainbow Colours and the word "Pace", Italian for "Peace".

Chanting was accompanied by the ceaseless rhythm of a dozen drums: "rat, tat, tat – Stop the Occupation! rat, tat, tat – Stop the Occupation! rat, tat, tat – Stop the Occupation!" with young activists jumping high in the air to the same rhythm. Every minute a new chant was added: "Dismantle/the evil settler council!", "Fight the racists/dismantle the outposts", "The Rampaging Rightists/Endanger all of us", "Finance the slums/Not the settlements", "Dismantle the settlements/Build up the health service", "Remove the settlers/Provide more wheel-chairs", "Jews and Arabs/Refuse to be enemies", "Jews and Arabs/Together fight the racists", "Extreme Right on the rise/ This is the time to organize!", "Occupation is the problem/Peace is the solution!", "No to settlement!/Yes to peace!", "No Occupation, no terror/remove the settler horror", "Mass struggle, pulverize/The settler enterprize", "From settlement chains/Liberate the Hebronites", "Racist settlement/Murderously violent", "Stop the shame/Don’t play the settler game", "Barak Barak hey hey hey/When will you block the settlers' way?", ""Barak Barak, hey hey hey/Hebron removal, on which day?", "Settler villas – No! Slum renovation – Yes!", "Settlement is a crime/Settler council is a Mafia", "Neither settlers not soldiers/Evacuate Hebron, no leftovers!", "One, Two, Three, Four/Settlements will be no more".

After nearly two hours of protest, former KM Mossi Raz took up the loud-speaker for a few concluding words: "Mr. Defence Minster Barak, you who will not be a defence minister for much longer – this is your last chance, and perhaps the country's last chance. The struggle is not about one house in Hebron, it is about pogromist gangs which have gone out of anybody's control – even the control of the parents, teachers and rabbis who brought them up. Mr. Barak, this is your last chance to break up the settler rebellion, the gravest threat to our future!"

At the conclusion, several activists managed to hang a "Down With the Occupation" sign on the back of police patrol car. The car started moving with the sign still hanging, when the policemen inside –apparently alerted by the other cars – stopped, rushed out of the car to threw away the sign.

Peace Coalition: Gush Shalom, Women's Coalition for Peace, ICAHD, Yesh Gvul, AIC, Student Coalition of TA University - acting together with Peace Now.

You know, given all the horrific atrocities Israel allegedly regularly engage in,

Nothing "allegedly" about it. It's just now we have video of it.

Nothing "allegedly" about it. It's just now we have video of it.

But since it's Jewish settlers committing them, the Israeli government will handle it with punch and pie.

Whereas if it had been Palestinian agitators, the same Israeli government would deal punches, kicks, gunshots, bulldozers and cutoffs instead.

Gauthier, I think the situation is starting to get beyond that.
We are looking at an Israel that is changing. It is clearly a very divided country. The Bush administration and the so-called "Christian Zionists" were encouraging the Right in Israel for years. That took its toll.
Bush winked at the wall and looked the other way as the settlers took more and more land.
The Palestinian response via Hamas, though an understandable reaction, played into the hands of the Right.
Remember that both sides have their "peace" faction and their "war" faction.
Hamas and the settles are two sides of the same coin. Both of them contain elements who would happily assassinate their own leaders if the leaders looked like making a genuine peace deal.

Gauthier, I think the situation is starting to get beyond that.
We are looking at an Israel that is changing. It is clearly a very divided country. The Bush administration and the so-called "Christian Zionists" were encouraging the Right in Israel for years. That took its toll.
Bush winked at the wall and looked the other way as the settlers took more and more land.
The Palestinian response via Hamas, though an understandable reaction, played into the hands of the Right.
Remember that both sides have their "peace" faction and their "war" faction.
Hamas and the settles are two sides of the same coin. Both of them contain elements who would happily assassinate their own leaders if the leaders looked like making a genuine peace deal.

And as the boilover in India and Pakistan proves, extremists know that the threat of violence is enough to throw off government attention from themselves. All it takes is the threat of another Goldstein, Amir or Hamasshole to get even the sensible non-Likud part of the Israeli government to ignore the settlers.

But since it's Jewish settlers committing them, the Israeli government will handle it with punch and pie.

Whereas if it had been Palestinian agitators, the same Israeli government would deal punches, kicks, gunshots, bulldozers and cutoffs instead.

....not to mention the US running round making sure the EU cut off aid to the evil Palestinians, who've gone and got themselves colonised and have the cheek not to like it......

I wouldn't be surprised if the government cracks down on the settlers. They're more trouble than they're worth, and it would go a long way towards getting the Palestinians to like them.

Actually, with the pogrom comment, I'm EXPECTING a crackdown. "Pogrom" isn't a word we Jews use lightly.

Kadima isn't exactly a party that gets along with the settlers. It was created when Sharon split with Likud over the Gaza pullout. The settlers would do well to restrain themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government cracks down on the settlers.

O and what a happy day that would be. And hopefully they wouldn't stop with Hebron. Of course thats upthere with other drug induced lunatic ideas like impartial policing and equality before the law in the OT, but there ye go....

The settlers would do well to restrain themselves.

What is the probability of that happening with and without crackdowns on the settlers?

What is the probability of that happening with and without crackdowns on the settlers?

Considering they think they have God on their side, not very high.

To me, this highlights the importance of Livni beating Netanyahu in February.

Whereas if it had been Palestinian agitators, the same Israeli government would deal punches, kicks, gunshots, bulldozers and cutoffs instead.

To the agitators, their family,their friends, their neighbors, everyone who has ever seen them in the local market....

I wouldn't be surprised if the government cracks down on the settlers. They're more trouble than they're worth, and it would go a long way towards getting the Palestinians to like them.


Nah.

As has been posted previously: Nuke them all.

That way, when they get to meet god, they can ask him who the hell was right.