NationStates Jolt Archive

So as most of you know, there are a number of commercially available products for monitoring the use of computers for kids, offices, etc. There are also ones out there that will block web browsers from sites with certain pre-defined criteria and so forth.

The problem I've had with those is that the software is either too draconian (One wouldn't let my son and me browse to the Ford website to look at the new Mustangs) or too easily defeated. These days, kids are becoming more and more savvy about getting around blocks and monitors, and while I've never been one to snoop or spy on my kids, the Internet is potentially as much a curse as it is a blessing. I therefore make an exception in this case.

In my case, the 3 kids I have who are old enough to operate a computer live with their mom in the next state. They each have their own computer and as far as I can tell, their mom doesn't bother monitoring what they do. The problem is actually potentially quite severe.

And so I, being a software developer, decided to take my skills and apply them to this problem. I have been developing monitoring software that has the following features:

-It will open and scan the browser history files and compile a list of all websites visited by that computer, grouped by user account.
-It will run silently in the background, and will not interfere with any other process
-It will compile a report of all sites and E-mail it to me on a daily or weekly basis.

This satisfies my goal of allowing my kids the freedom to do the right thing on their own, yet letting me see exactly how they're using that freedom. I don't care what sited they visit or how frequently, as long as there's no porn sites on that list. if, every so often, I find one or two, I'll probably say nothing. If, on the other hand, I see an addictive pattern forming, I will be able to take action.

I do not want my kids to know I'm doing this. Firstly, because if they know about it they may try, and eventually succeed, in defeating it. All 3 of my older kids are exceptionally bright (4.0 or close to it on every report card) and I do not doubt for an instant if they wanted to circumvent my process they'd find a way. Second, I need to know what's really going on. A person who knows they're being monitored may find some other means of getting their fix.

Todo:
-Right now this program only scans Internet Explorer files. I'll be adding functionality to handle Mozilla as well, and then go from there.
-I haven't built it yet as a Windows Service. It's still a Windows app that will scan the computer it's on. I'll convert it once all the individual components are in place.

Why am I posting this? 2 reasons:

1)Feedback. If you guys can think of anything I've missed, or have any suggestions, I'd welcome them.
2)If anyone would like to have a copy of this for themselves once it's done, I will give it away for free, including source code.

-It will open and scan the browser history files and compile a list of all websites visited by that computer, grouped by user account.
-It will run silently in the background, and will not interfere with any other process
-It will compile a report of all sites and E-mail it to me on a daily or weekly basis.
Why don't you just check their browsing history? Ctrl+H?

I imagine it's relatively simple to write a wee script that sends the history to you.

Why bother with fancy-pants blocking software if all you wish to do is moniter?

Why don't you just check their browsing history? Ctrl+H?

I imagine it's relatively simple to write a wee script that sends the history to you.

Why bother with fancy-pants blocking software if all you wish to do is moniter?

Can't do Ctrl+H on a computer that's 100 miles away. ;)

I could just have it send me the history files themselves, but they get pretty big because they hold a lot more than just browsing history, and I don't want to bog down the system trying to send the huge files back.

I don't want to block anything, just see if there's a problem. If there is, then I'll have to decide what to do from there.

this problem of which you speak illudes me. as long as they don't leave the house to meet (alone) people they only "know" from online.

Can't do Ctrl+H on a computer that's 100 miles away. ;)

I don't want to block anything, just see if there's a problem. If there is, then I'll have to decide what to do from there.
Could you not write a script/get you kid's mother to send you the history file?

Hello process checker and HijackThis. Goodbye NB's little tattle tale. :p

Can't do Ctrl+H on a computer that's 100 miles away. ;)
Is it your computer? As in, do you own it?

This sytem is in place at my old school, type in anything dodgy and its gets blocked. Got quite annoying when you are researching the Nazi's or BNP for example.

This sytem is in place at my old school, type in anything dodgy and its gets blocked. Got quite annoying when you are researching the Nazi's or BNP for example.
Back when I was in school, the web-blocking software (which was pretty primitive) was more a nightmare for art research.

Them artists love teh boobies.

this problem of which you speak illudes me. as long as they don't leave the house to meet (alone) people they only "know" from online.

That's not really my main concern. I'm more worried about porn addiction.

Could you not write a script/get you kid's mother to send you the history file?

In theory, but I don't trust her. She could very well tell the kids all about it then cast herself as the hero who will run interference for them. More than likely she'll simply dismiss the need for it at all, since it wasn't her idea.

Is it your computer? As in, do you own it?

Yes and no. I bought them and gave them to the kids.

That's not really my main concern. I'm more worried about porn addiction.

It's a myth. Concerns allayed.

I could go for the youth view of this: ''It's the adult oppression! They are trying to monitor us and control what we think!'' But I won't.

It's a myth. Concerns allayed.

THAT.

Khadgar is right. Porn addiction is a sham.

In theory, but I don't trust her. She could very well tell the kids all about it then cast herself as the hero who will run interference for them. More than likely she'll simply dismiss the need for it at all, since it wasn't her idea.

Trust issues much?


Yes and no. I bought them and gave them to the kids.

Then you don't own them, a gift is no longer owned by you once you gift it.

I don't monitor what my kids surf. I prefer to let them exercise their own judgment.

The computer they initially use is the "public" one in the living room, so unlikely to surf porn unless we're not around.

When they're 10, they get their own computer in their room. When my daughter got to high school, I gave her a laptop.

There's a bit of advice on personal privacy, child stalkers, etc - but I haven't felt the need to police everything they browse.

In theory, but I don't trust her. She could very well tell the kids all about it then cast herself as the hero who will run interference for them. More than likely she'll simply dismiss the need for it at all, since it wasn't her idea.
Then there's very little you can (legally) do.

Talk to your kids about your worries. Trying to covertly monitor them from 100 miles away through morally ambiguous means doesn't seem... sensible.

Spying on your kids is wrong. Very wrong.

If you don't trust your kids, then talk to them.
convey your fears and advise them of the dangers.
If they are as intelligent as you say, they will be okay with just that.
But do not spy on them.

You need to let go of some of the control,
let them learn on their own,
make their own mistakes.
Let them grow.

"the advice offered herein, is given with the information at hand,
and may not be entirely accurate, depending on the situation."

,)

Then there's very little you can (legally) do.

Talk to your kids about your worries. Trying to covertly monitor them from 100 miles away through morally ambiguous means doesn't seem... sensible.

Morally ambiguous? I'll wait for one our lawyers to get here but I have a suspicion that since the computer isn't his this would be a felony.

Morally ambiguous? I'll wait for one our lawyers to get here but I have a suspicion that since the computer isn't his this would be a felony.

I'm fairly certain it's a case of unlawful intrusion into a computer system. Not sure where that rates on the scale though.

Morally ambiguous? I'll wait for one our lawyers to get here but I have a suspicion that since the computer isn't his this would be a felony.
Nothing preventing it from both being illegal and immoral.

All morality and legal stuff aside, we had an incident recently where my sister-in-law found my daughter's Facebook page.

Now, I don't even go there, because I figure it's her presence on the Internet - we've already had the talk about guys who look for young girls, etc. So she's doing this on her own.

Well, it would appear that my sister-in-law didn't approve of her beliefs, friends, etc. And confronted her about it (that's my department, if it's to be done at all).

My daughter took it as an unwarranted intrusion, and it was. I had to school my sister-in-law.

1)Feedback. If you guys can think of anything I've missed, or have any suggestions, I'd welcome them.
2)If anyone would like to have a copy of this for themselves once it's done, I will give it away for free, including source code.

Will their mother know? Is this legal? And if yes, under which circumstances is it (il)legal? Be very careful here :)

All morality and legal stuff aside, we had an incident recently where my sister-in-law found my daughter's Facebook page.

Now, I don't even go there, because I figure it's her presence on the Internet - we've already had the talk about guys who look for young girls, etc. So she's doing this on her own.

Well, it would appear that my sister-in-law didn't approve of her beliefs, friends, etc. And confronted her about it (that's my department, if it's to be done at all).

My daughter took it as an unwarranted intrusion, and it was. I had to school my sister-in-law.
its a good lesson for both of them

your sister in law needs to leave well enough alone and your daughter learns that when you put yourself out there, you have no control over who sees it.

<sacrifices a Kentucky Fried Chicken and casts "Summon Neoart" and Summon Cat tribe so we can get an expert opinion on the legality of this.>

It's a myth. Concerns allayed.
THAT.

Khadgar is right. Porn addiction is a sham.

I disagree.


Trust issues much?

With her? Absolutely.


Then you don't own them, a gift is no longer owned by you once you gift it.
Then there's very little you can (legally) do.
I'm fairly certain it's a case of unlawful intrusion into a computer system. Not sure where that rates on the scale though.
Will their mother know? Is this legal? And if yes, under which circumstances is it (il)legal? Be very careful here :)

Although it does occur to me that if I clue their mom in on this, and agree to let her know if I find anything troubling, then that ought to clear things up in terms if potential legality. Really, the only reason that's in question is the fact that they don't live with me. If this were my home network, it would be very different.


Talk to your kids about your worries. Trying to covertly monitor them from 100 miles away through morally ambiguous means doesn't seem... sensible.

I do talk to them. For me to go into any further detail would be to violate the confidence of our private discussion, but suffice it to say the kids are aware that I reserve the right to inspect their computers (although I've only ever done it once) and my help with some of this stuff has been requested.

Spying on your kids is wrong. Very wrong.


No it isn't.


If you don't trust your kids, then talk to them.
convey your fears and advise them of the dangers.
If they are as intelligent as you say, they will be okay with just that.
But do not spy on them.

You need to let go of some of the control,
let them learn on their own,
make their own mistakes.
Let them grow.

I do all of those things, but I want a failsafe in place.

I disagree.

What are the symptoms of porn addiction?

No it isn't.


Resist temptation...

What are the symptoms of porn addiction?

Probably very similar to the symptoms of forum addiction :p

For me to go into any further detail would be to violate the confidence of our private discussion


In a conversation in which you are talking about violating the personal freedoms of these people, you are talking about not wanting to violate their trust?


...but suffice it to say the kids are aware that I reserve the right...

When they became 'aware that' you 'reserve the right'... did you clue them into the fact that you monitoring them may be illegal, and you installing this spy software on their computers almost certainly is?


Seriously... how old are these kids?

You say 'old enough to use the computer', but my 3 year old can log on, find youtube, and watch his favourite videos there... so that's no measure.

I'd say you need to be careful in what you are doing, and if they are... say, 14 or 15, (or older?) you probably need to butt out completely.

It's not illegal to google them, look for facebook or myspace pages, etc (although if you do it excesively, it might qualify as stalking), so maybe you should think about making sure they're playing safe THAT way.

Would your program be able to deal with "portable" browsers (which run from an USB stick) ?

Of course, all your kids would have to do to circumvent all this is booting from a windows or linux live cd and browsing from that live environment.

In a conversation in which you are talking about violating the personal freedoms of these people, you are talking about not wanting to violate their trust?

There's no personal freedom to break the law which, if they're viewing porn while underage, is exactly what they'd be doing.


When they became 'aware that' you 'reserve the right'... did you clue them into the fact that you monitoring them may be illegal, and you installing this spy software on their computers almost certainly is?

Unless and until there's something definitive on that, the point is moot.


Seriously... how old are these kids?

9, 13 and 15.


I'd say you need to be careful in what you are doing, and if they are... say, 14 or 15, (or older?) you probably need to butt out completely.

My kids have a very wide latitude of freedom. I make an exception here because I know the dangers involved. For you to tell me to butt out of this would be like telling me to butt out if I knew the next door neighbor was showing porn on a movie screen to them. Butt out? I think not.


It's not illegal to google them, look for facebook or myspace pages, etc (although if you do it excesively, it might qualify as stalking), so maybe you should think about making sure they're playing safe THAT way.

Covered.

Would your program be able to deal with "portable" browsers (which run from an USB stick) ?

Of course, all your kids would have to do to circumvent all this is booting from a windows or linux live cd and browsing from that live environment.

Not in its current state, no it can't handle portable browsers. Eventually I want to upgrade it so that it doesn't read history files, but does live, real-time data packet monitoring of what goes an and out of the network connection.

Not in its current state, no it can't handle portable browsers. Eventually I want to upgrade it so that it doesn't read history files, but does live, real-time data packet monitoring of what goes an and out of the network connection.

Why not directly program the router then ? A customised linux distro could do the job.

Probably very similar to the symptoms of forum addiction :p

I encountered my first porn when I was like 5. Older brother who was 13 explained the mechanics of what was going on to me. I watch porn occasionally still. I don't buy the porn addiction nonsense. Sex addiction yes, masturbation addiction sure, porn addiction, no.

What'll you do if a prankster friend links them to a porn site claiming that it's a PG site?

What'll you do if they voluntarily visit a porn site and claim it's the previous thing?

Why not directly program the router then ? A customised linux distro could do the job.

I could, except that's not my network, and I don't have access to anything other than the kids' computers themselves.

I encountered my first porn when I was like 5. Older brother who was 13 explained the mechanics of what was going on to me. I watch porn occasionally still. I don't buy the porn addiction nonsense. Sex addiction yes, masturbation addiction sure, porn addiction, no.

Call it what you will, but given that those items can be closely tied together, I'm not going to waste time parsing it.

What'll you do if a prankster friend links them to a porn site claiming that it's a PG site?

What'll you do if they voluntarily visit a porn site and claim it's the previous thing?

Well it's like I said... If I see the occasional URL to a porn site I'm not going to say anything. (Unless it's something inherently illegal like underage porn or bestiality or something.) I'm only going to get worried if I see a large amount, and neither of those two scenarios is likely to cover that.

There's no personal freedom to break the law which, if they're viewing porn while underage, is exactly what they'd be doing.
Unless you're the FBI and have a warrant I don't think you can reach across state lines into someone else's property to prevent crime. And if you were, then you'd never get a warrant on the basis that there is porn on the internet. There's alcohol in that state too, do you call up local liquor merchants and ask if your kids have been snooping around there?



Unless and until there's something definitive on that, the point is moot.
Isn't your concern about porn addiction equally moot, then? Unless a joke about forum addiction is something definitive.


My kids have a very wide latitude of freedom. I make an exception here because I know the dangers involved. For you to tell me to butt out of this would be like telling me to butt out if I knew the next door neighbor was showing porn on a movie screen to them. Butt out? I think not.
It wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be like hiring someone to follow your kids around town, just in case they go into the porno store.

Not in its current state, no it can't handle portable browsers. Eventually I want to upgrade it so that it doesn't read history files, but does live, real-time data packet monitoring of what goes an and out of the network connection.

You should hope that it doesn't occur to your kids to start deleting their history on a regular basis.

Unless you're the FBI and have a warrant I don't think you can reach across state lines into someone else's property to prevent crime. And if you were, then you'd never get a warrant on the basis that there is porn on the internet. There's alcohol in that state too, do you call up local liquor merchants and ask if your kids have been snooping around there?

Isn't your concern about porn addiction equally moot, then? Unless a joke about forum addiction is something definitive.

It wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be like hiring someone to follow your kids around town, just in case they go into the porno store.

You should hope that it doesn't occur to your kids to start deleting their history on a regular basis.

Although if they do I'll know about that too.

So just as a general question to everybody, what I'm hearing here is that most of those who have replied think that either it doesn't matter what they do on the computer, or it might matter but I don't have the right, as their father, to do anything about it. Is that correct?

Although if they do I'll know about that too.

So just as a general question to everybody, what I'm hearing here is that most of those who have replied think that either it doesn't matter what they do on the computer, or it might matter but I don't have the right, as their father, to do anything about it. Is that correct?

No, I think it's mostly that you're being incredibly paranoid about the wrong things. Your kids are far more likely to be harmed by a pedophile who talks them into giving out personal info than by seeing porn. Religious sensibilities aside.

Although if they do I'll know about that too.
And confronting them about it will lead to the whole violation of trust thing. Not to mention it could be a violation of trust over nothing.

So just as a general question to everybody, what I'm hearing here is that most of those who have replied think that either it doesn't matter what they do on the computer, or it might matter but I don't have the right, as their father, to do anything about it. Is that correct?

It does matter what they do online, but not so much so that you should risk running afoul of computer fraud laws. And your primary concern seems to be that they'd look at porn. It's certainly illegal for them to do so, but I doubt it would be terribly harmful. Far less so than internet predators or viruses, IMO.

Although if they do I'll know about that too.

So just as a general question to everybody, what I'm hearing here is that most of those who have replied think that either it doesn't matter what they do on the computer, or it might matter but I don't have the right, as their father, to do anything about it. Is that correct?

You left out the part where, while you have every right to install whatever software you wish on YOUR computer you have no right to reach across state lines and install software on you ex-wifes computer without permission.

Also spying on your children (especially if they have done NOTHING to arouse your suspicion) is a good way to destroy any trust they have in you.

You left out the part where, while you have every right to install whatever software you wish on YOUR computer you have no right to reach across state lines and install software on you ex-wifes computer without permission.

Also spying on your children (especially if they have done NOTHING to arouse your suspicion) is a good way to destroy any trust they have in you.

Yeah you can probably get the ex-wife in on this. Your ex might oppose it but it's better than having her flip out and accuse you of infecting her computer with a virus... After the fact all you pleading that it's not a virus and your not spying on *her* won't help. If your kids really are young it doesn't sound too invasive she might see the reason in it.

What you want to do is set it up so that it's running as a service under a different user ... and make sure that the whole family doesn't have administrator privileges. You can still set it up so that your kids can install software, you'll have to play around with users and groups. Don't ask me how to do it though... I use linux.

Yeah you can probably get the ex-wife in on this. Your ex might oppose it but it's better than having her flip out and accuse you of infecting her computer with a virus... After the fact all you pleading that it's not a virus and your not spying on *her* won't help. If your kids really are young it doesn't sound too invasive she might see the reason in it.

What you want to do is set it up so that it's running as a service under a different user ... and make sure that the whole family doesn't have administrator privileges. You can still set it up so that your kids can install software, you'll have to play around with users and groups. Don't ask me how to do it though... I use linux.

I strongly suspect he believes his ex won't agree with his views.

-snip-

Linux? Uhmh. Right.

Watch what your kids are doing. If they're too old for that, don't patronize them with stuff like this.

If you keep an eye on your kids, you're a bad parent, really.

Keeping kids from porn is like keeping steak from a dog. You're just not going to do it.

Although if they do I'll know about that too.

So just as a general question to everybody, what I'm hearing here is that most of those who have replied think that either it doesn't matter what they do on the computer, or it might matter but I don't have the right, as their father, to do anything about it. Is that correct?

I have to say that is the worst interpretation of what is being said here that could be imagined. You are being ignorant and defensive. Let's see what we can do to solve the ignorance part, shall we?

1. It is a crime to harvest data from computers that you do not own for ANY PURPOSE in the US without the consent of the owner or without being a direct result of something the owner does (ie. cookies). Since you claim not to be the owner, you would be violating a federal law.

2 On the issue of law "There's no personal freedom to break the law which, if they're viewing porn while underage, is exactly what they'd be doing." It is not illegal on the minor's part to view pornographic material. It is illegal to make it available to the minor and the "breaking the law" happens on the provider's side. If this is something you are worried about, then use an "air-gap firewall" (Google it if you don't understand).

3. There is something that hasn't been noted and I think is relevant. These kids do not live with you, therefore you do not have custody. The courts (or you both via mutual agreement) have decided that your ex-wife is to be the primary responsible party for these children. The rules that the kids live by gets to be determined by her. (*Simply, Not your roof, not your rules.*) It is WRONG to circumvent the hierarchy of power and try to exploit a GIFT you gave to these CHILDREN. If you want to change those rules, TALK TO THEIR MOTHER. If you could sleep with her for almost a decade, you can sort this out. Be a man and stop weaseling around the problem.

Hope that helps get the real issues to the surface here.

On a technical note, proxy's break your "program" completely and the "history files" are a horrible place to look for web history. Try canvasing for index.dat files and parsing them. You get better data about the nature of the visit (popup, load, click... tons of info) and could easily tell how long it takes for one of them to close a page (via timestamps). That assumes they aren't smart enough to use the livecd idea (there are facebook groups for that already) and that they never use alternative browsers (firefox anyone?). You may also be better able to grab this info based on a keylogger, if you really needed it. Look for one that can connect to both the keyboard and wifi so that it can connect back and ship you logs daily. :-) Hope that helps in both regards.

Yes and no. I bought them and gave them to the kids.
Hrm. Legally, the computer is theirs. The question is whether you are within your authorized access to modify their computers without their knowledge. I would suspect not. Consequently, receiving information across an interstate communication (they're unusually specific about that in the law) from them that they are unaware of probably constitutes an offense under article 1030.2.c. However, it's a gray, since although "authority" and "protected" are theoretically defined, it's a new law, so the definitions are up for debate.

Hrm. Legally, the computer is theirs. The question is whether you are within your authorized access to modify their computers without their knowledge. I would suspect not. Consequently, receiving information across an interstate communication (they're unusually specific about that in the law) from them that they are unaware of probably constitutes an offense under article 1030.2.c. However, it's a gray, since although "authority" and "protected" are theoretically defined, it's a new law, so the definitions are up for debate.

Any system that's not part of a public system is considered protected I believe. Unsecured HTTP and FTP, Telnet, stuff like that is fine.

My kids have a very wide latitude of freedom. I make an exception here because I know the dangers involved. For you to tell me to butt out of this would be like telling me to butt out if I knew the next door neighbor was showing porn on a movie screen to them.

The situation does not compare as being certain of a crime going on (in your analogy) is something you are not (in reality).

Who the fuck are you to dictate whether or not your kids view porn (or anything else)? It's their choice. You would've, given the chance.

I could go for the youth view of this: ''It's the adult oppression! They are trying to monitor us and control what we think!'' But I won't.

I agree, partially; adults can be controlling sometimes, but they have good intentions. They just want their children to end up like they did. Honestly, I think that they have a good reason, their just being too forward about it.

Any system that's not part of a public system is considered protected I believe. Unsecured HTTP and FTP, Telnet, stuff like that is fine.
Again, it's a gray. After all, public Email servers with webmail access are considered protected too.

The working definition that I've been directed to is for any computer used in interstate commerce (ie; essentially all online activity), regardless of actual security mechanisms or the protocol of communication. This reduces arguing most cases of violation to determining whether or not the person was authorized to do whatever it was they did (ie; something the lawyers know how to argue about and the judge/jury can understand). But there's some uncertainty on it as legislation fresh from the forge (and still a bit malleable).

Also spying on your children (especially if they have done NOTHING to arouse your suspicion) is a good way to destroy any trust they have in you.

Clearly you haven't been bothering to read closely.

I strongly suspect he believes his ex won't agree with his views.

She'd agree with my views, but has an annoying tendency to reject any idea she didn't come up with herself.

Watch what your kids are doing. If they're too old for that, don't patronize them with stuff like this.

If you keep an eye on your kids, you're a bad parent, really.

Keeping kids from porn is like keeping steak from a dog. You're just not going to do it.

I feel sorry for you for your silly fatalistic attitude.

I have to say that is the worst interpretation of what is being said here that could be imagined. You are being ignorant and defensive. Let's see what we can do to solve the ignorance part, shall we?


An ignorant or defensive person doesn't ask if he's correct in his understanding, sport.


1. It is a crime to harvest data from computers that you do not own for ANY PURPOSE in the US without the consent of the owner or without being a direct result of something the owner does (ie. cookies). Since you claim not to be the owner, you would be violating a federal law.

If it were that simple, then parents everywhere who check their kids' computers would be in violation of that law.


2 On the issue of law "There's no personal freedom to break the law which, if they're viewing porn while underage, is exactly what they'd be doing." It is not illegal on the minor's part to view pornographic material. It is illegal to make it available to the minor and the "breaking the law" happens on the provider's side. If this is something you are worried about, then use an "air-gap firewall" (Google it if you don't understand).

Duly noted.


3. There is something that hasn't been noted and I think is relevant. These kids do not live with you, therefore you do not have custody. The courts (or you both via mutual agreement) have decided that your ex-wife is to be the primary responsible party for these children. The rules that the kids live by gets to be determined by her. (*Simply, Not your roof, not your rules.*) It is WRONG to circumvent the hierarchy of power and try to exploit a GIFT you gave to these CHILDREN. If you want to change those rules, TALK TO THEIR MOTHER. If you could sleep with her for almost a decade, you can sort this out. Be a man and stop weaseling around the problem.


Hey thanks for the snotty lecture on issues you have no direct knowledge of.


Hope that helps get the real issues to the surface here.

On a technical note, proxy's break your "program" completely and the "history files" are a horrible place to look for web history. Try canvasing for index.dat files and parsing them.


One of those index.dat files IS the browser history file for IE, chief.


You get better data about the nature of the visit (popup, load, click... tons of info) and could easily tell how long it takes for one of them to close a page (via timestamps). That assumes they aren't smart enough to use the livecd idea (there are facebook groups for that already) and that they never use alternative browsers (firefox anyone?).


They do use Firefox, and its browsing history is stored in a sqllite database file which can be queried.


You may also be better able to grab this info based on a keylogger, if you really needed it. Look for one that can connect to both the keyboard and wifi so that it can connect back and ship you logs daily. :-) Hope that helps in both regards.

Who the fuck are you to dictate whether or not your kids view porn (or anything else)? It's their choice. You would've, given the chance.

I'm their fucking father. That gives me not only the right but the responsibility to keep porn away from them. It's not their choice and will not be until they're 18. How many kids have you got, sport?

These days, kids are becoming more and more savvy about getting around blocks and monitors, and while I've never been one to snoop or spy on my kids, the Internet is potentially as much a curse as it is a blessing. I therefore make an exception in this case.
I'd suspect that this will be your biggest obstacle. You have a bit of a head start by having the software dev background to keep you a step ahead but -- assuming that your kids are reasonably tech savvy -- it will only be a matter of time before one or more of them work out that they're being monitored and then trace it back to you. Your call, of course.

-Right now this program only scans Internet Explorer files. I'll be adding functionality to handle Mozilla as well, and then go from there.
-I haven't built it yet as a Windows Service. It's still a Windows app that will scan the computer it's on. I'll convert it once all the individual components are in place.
If it was me (**) I'd probably ignore individual browser apps, and concentrate on building logging functionality using the suite of command line options that Windows provides. Plenty of command switches (e.g. for the likes of netstat) could be combined to track all their network usage pretty simply. A raw log could be easily saved/encrypted , and the spy app configured to mail the raw data out to you at regular intervals. This approach would also have the advantage of tracking UDP streams such as videos that are actually being viewed (as opposed to links being clicked or small banner ads being loaded), and would continue to provide data regardless of the steps taken by the surveillee(?!) to avoid it by changing browser, etc.



(** This is purely a hypothetical. This sort of monitoring would, I suspect, be illegal to place on someone else's PC where I live and the nature of the secret surveillance goes against my gut feeling regarding right and wrong)

This strikes me as a really, really bad idea. I think you should consider whether violating their privacy, and potentially losing their trust should they find you out, is worth it. If they're as smart as you say it's only a matter of time before they do, and then it becomes stupidly easy to bypass it.

This strikes me as a really, really bad idea. I think you should consider whether violating their privacy, and potentially losing their trust should they find you out, is worth it. If they're as smart as you say it's only a matter of time before they do, and then it becomes stupidly easy to bypass it.

Not to mention, if they use half decent antivirus, heuristically it'll be picked up as a virus.

Even if you go ahead with this, your kids will get around it. It's what kids do. Probably a better solution is to talk to them about the elements of internet use you find to be a problem, and make sure that they know they can come to you if they come across a unsettling situtation.

Thanks very much to those of you with honest feedback and suggestions.

I just want to let everybody know that I have spoken with my kids about this sort of thing often, and they've been very honest about what's gone so far. They know I reserve the right to look in on their computers, for such is the agreement when I gave them the machines in the first place. They get their own computer, but agree to let mom and dad check them out. (I didn't supply these details earlier because I didn't think it would be relevant tot his discussion. Evidently I was mistaken.)

When I said that I didn't want them to know exactly how I'm doing it, it wasn't to hide the fact that I'm monitoring them. Just the method. I'll tell you why.

When I was their age, there was no Internet as we know it so getting my hands on porn was a lot more difficult... But I did find a way, (my dad didn't hide his stash well) and for a time it became a real habit. I honestly think that led to some of the problems I had later in my life, and no, I won't go into detail here on that but if anyone really feels they'd benefit from knowing, you can TG me. So I'm trying not to tip my hand on how I do it so that if they're gonna defeat it, they'll have to work hard on it and learn a few useful skills along the way. Not a bad deal, eh?

Ideally, their mom, as the resident parent, would be on top of this, but she's too wrapped up in her own little world to care much about what they're doing, so I cannot rely on her.

Anyway, I knew, when I was their age, that it was a bad idea, but nobody in my life really was t here to help me learn how to handle it or deal with it, so I had to figure out out myself. So I see some of the same elements in at least one of my sons, and he has asked me to help him. I won't go into detail on that, because it was a private conversation.

So to those of you accusing me of being a control freak, snooping or stalking my own kids: Blow it out your backside. You don't know what you're talking about.

The legal question is important, and I will not do anything illegal, even if it means I have to bring my ex in on this, which I'd rather not to but... it is what it is. I will consult the local laws first.

Finally, I thank you technical folks for your insights and suggestions. I think some of them will be very helpful if I'm able to proceed on this. If anybody would like to be kept in the loop as far ad the development is concerned, feel free to TG me.

I remember when my parents set the parental controls on AOL....unfortunately for them all their passwords were and are the same, lmao :wink:

Parting note: At this time, my research appears to indicate that proceeding with this plan will not violate the law, both because of local legislation and the reasoning for the software.

You're still a control freak. Let them have their porn (and their privacy).

Thanks very much to those of you with honest feedback and suggestions.

I just want to let everybody know that I have spoken with my kids about this sort of thing often, and they've been very honest about what's gone so far. They know I reserve the right to look in on their computers, for such is the agreement when I gave them the machines in the first place. They get their own computer, but agree to let mom and dad check them out. (I didn't supply these details earlier because I didn't think it would be relevant tot his discussion. Evidently I was mistaken.)

When I said that I didn't want them to know exactly how I'm doing it, it wasn't to hide the fact that I'm monitoring them. Just the method. I'll tell you why.

When I was their age, there was no Internet as we know it so getting my hands on porn was a lot more difficult... But I did find a way, (my dad didn't hide his stash well) and for a time it became a real habit. I honestly think that led to some of the problems I had later in my life, and no, I won't go into detail here on that but if anyone really feels they'd benefit from knowing, you can TG me. So I'm trying not to tip my hand on how I do it so that if they're gonna defeat it, they'll have to work hard on it and learn a few useful skills along the way. Not a bad deal, eh?

Ideally, their mom, as the resident parent, would be on top of this, but she's too wrapped up in her own little world to care much about what they're doing, so I cannot rely on her.

Anyway, I knew, when I was their age, that it was a bad idea, but nobody in my life really was t here to help me learn how to handle it or deal with it, so I had to figure out out myself. So I see some of the same elements in at least one of my sons, and he has asked me to help him. I won't go into detail on that, because it was a private conversation.

So to those of you accusing me of being a control freak, snooping or stalking my own kids: Blow it out your backside. You don't know what you're talking about.

The legal question is important, and I will not do anything illegal, even if it means I have to bring my ex in on this, which I'd rather not to but... it is what it is. I will consult the local laws first.

Finally, I thank you technical folks for your insights and suggestions. I think some of them will be very helpful if I'm able to proceed on this. If anybody would like to be kept in the loop as far ad the development is concerned, feel free to TG me.

All parents are control freaks. It's our freaking job.

All parents are control freaks. It's our freaking job.

Sounds like a shitty parental methodology to me.

Sounds like a shitty parental methodology to me.
its very hard to know when to control and when to let go.

you might want to try it before you criticize it too heavily.

Sounds like a shitty parental methodology to me.

What does? Being responsible for my own children?

you might want to try it before you criticize it too heavily.
Are you sure that's wise?

What does? Being responsible for my own children?
Being responsible =/= control freak.

Are you sure that's wise?
nope.

some people really shouldnt ever have kids.

You're still a control freak. Let them have their porn (and their privacy).
Sounds like a shitty parental methodology to me.

Blow it out your backside. You know not of what you speak. Obviously you're still a kid too and have absolutely no credibility in this matter whatsoever, and I think your parents need to wake up because obviously they've dropped the ball.

All parents are control freaks. It's our freaking job.

^This

Are you sure that's wise?
nope.

some people really shouldnt ever have kids.

^these too.

Being responsible =/= control freak.

^and this.

Taking responsibility for one's children and what they're doing is called being a good parent.

Being responsible =/= control freak.

It really is though.

I tell them what they can eat, and who they can hang out with and where they can go and when they can go and what websites they can go to and what kinds of activities they can do and such.

If someone tried to tell me all those things I would think they were pretty controlling.

It really is though.

I tell them what they can eat, and who they can hang out with and where they can go and when they can go and what websites they can go to and what kinds of activities they can do and such.

If someone tried to tell me all those things I would think they were pretty controlling.
yeah but if your kids were 10 years older than they are it would be a tad over-the-top.

yeah but if your kids were 10 years older than they are it would be a tad over-the-top.

Just a tad. ;)

Just a tad. ;)

How old were your kids?

and poor neoB has the added problem of not being his kid's day to day parent. that can make anyone crazy.

its very hard to keep on the right side of control freak when you fear for your child's safety.

How old were your kids?
They are 5 and 7.
and poor neoB has the added problem of not being his kid's day to day parent. that can make anyone crazy.

its very hard to keep on the right side of control freak when you fear for your child's safety.

That would drive me insane, especially if I had been separated from them in that way for a few years, it's hard to know where they will rebel and it's even harder when the person taking care of them doesn't share your values. Knowing that your kids aren't being supervised/guided in the way that you feel is best and being unable to fix it must be soul killing.

They are 5 and 7.


That would drive me insane, especially if I had been separated from them in that way for a few years, it's hard to know where they will rebel and it's even harder when the person taking care of them doesn't share your values. Knowing that your kids aren't being supervised/guided in the way that you feel is best and being unable to fix it must be soul killing.
you worry about your kids constantly when they are with you. it has to be so much worse when they arent.

Blow it out your backside. You know not of what you speak. Obviously you're still a kid too and have absolutely no credibility in this matter whatsoever, and I think your parents need to wake up because obviously they've dropped the ball.

So anyone who disagrees is obviously a kid? And that makes it OK for you to insult them and disregard anything they say? Well in that case, it seems just as obvious to me that you are a terrible parent. I feel sorry for your kids.

It really is though.

I tell them what they can eat, and who they can hang out with and where they can go and when they can go and what websites they can go to and what kinds of activities they can do and such.

If someone tried to tell me all those things I would think they were pretty controlling.

Aye, but when someone says 'control freak' that usually carries connotations of excessive and unreasonable desire to control, as opposed to simply making decisions on your kids' welfare/upbringing.

and poor neoB has the added problem of not being his kid's day to day parent. that can make anyone crazy.

its very hard to keep on the right side of control freak when you fear for your child's safety.

Amen.

So anyone who disagrees is obviously a kid? And that makes it OK for you to insult them and disregard anything they say? Well in that case, it seems just as obvious to me that you are a terrible parent. I feel sorry for your kids.

Actually, no but the tone of his/her posts suggests kid-ness.

And I don't give a wet fart what you think of my parenting or who you feel sorry for. Have a nice day. :)

It really is though.

I tell them what they can eat, and who they can hang out with and where they can go and when they can go and what websites they can go to and what kinds of activities they can do and such.
And not all parents do this, and their kids aren't fucked up.

You aren't the lone model of what a good parent can be.

And not all parents do this, and their kids aren't fucked up.

You aren't the lone model of what a good parent can be.

And some parents don't supervise their children at all. They let them eat junk for every meal, and build bombs in their room, and hang out with pedophiles and drug dealers and join gangs and let their 10 year olds watch rape fantasy porn and they aren't control freaks at all...and then when their kid gets into actual real trouble they want the government to censor the video games or to put a stop to the porn industry or to do away with basic right of privacy for all of the adults.......you know "for the children".

Either you want parents to mind their own children or you do not. I take care of my kids so their existence has little effect over your daily life.......

You people sure do want us to "control the children" when you're trying to watch a movie.....but to guide them in a way that will pretty much ensure they won't annoy the shit out of you as grown-ups is "too much". :rolleyes:

All parents are control freaks. It's our freaking job.

There is a fine line between being a control freak and taking care of your kids. Kids need freedom to grow, experiment and figure things out for themselves. They also need to learn to make decisions for themselves.

What NeoB is doing seems perfectly fine to me, especially since hes not really going to say anything to them about it unless it becomes a real problem. To me, it seems this thing is more about predator control then keeping kids off "pr0n".

And some parents don't supervise their children at all. They let them eat junk for every meal, and build bombs in their room, and hang out with pedophiles and drug dealers and join gangs and let their 10 year olds watch rape fantasy porn and they aren't control freaks at all...and then when their kid gets into actual real trouble they want the government to censor the video games or to put a stop to the porn industry or to do away with basic right of privacy for all of the adults.......you know "for the children".

Either you want parents to mind their own children or you do not. I take care of my kids so their existence has little effect over your daily life.......

You people sure do want us to "control the children" when you're trying to watch a movie.....but to guide them in a way that will pretty much ensure they won't annoy the shit out of you as grown-ups is "too much". :rolleyes:

Yep, again, there is a big difference between being a control freak and being a responsible parent. You can be a responsible parent who gives his kids freedom without controling their lives.

People who seek to control every aspect of their kids lives clearly have no confidence in their own ability to teach values and responibilies to their children, or lack confidence in those values themselves.

If youre a good parent, your kids will be able to make decisions on their own without getting into too much trouble.

There is a fine line between being a control freak and taking care of your kids. Kids need freedom to grow, experiment and figure things out for themselves. They also need to learn to make decisions for themselves.

What NeoB is doing seems perfectly fine to me, especially since hes not really going to say anything to them about it unless it becomes a real problem. To me, it seems this thing is more about predator control then keeping kids off "pr0n".

I agree.

Parting note: At this time, my research appears to indicate that proceeding with this plan will not violate the law, both because of local legislation and the reasoning for the software.

I could have told you that. People who thought this was illegal are special, to put it bluntly.

If youre a good parent, your kids will be able to make decisions on their own without getting into too much trouble.

oh if only that were true.

you can do everything right and still have kids get into enormous trouble.

free will, eh?

Anyway, I knew, when I was their age, that it was a bad idea, but nobody in my life really was t here to help me learn how to handle it or deal with it, so I had to figure out out myself. So I see some of the same elements in at least one of my sons, and he has asked me to help him. I won't go into detail on that, because it was a private conversation.

Then ask them about it, don't snoop. (If that's what you're doing, I don't understand correctly because you seem to be baselessly telling people to "blow out your backside" because they have no idea of what's going on, if they don't, please do help yourself out by explaining."

When I was their age, there was no Internet as we know it so getting my hands on porn was a lot more difficult... But I did find a way, (my dad didn't hide his stash well) and for a time it became a real habit. I honestly think that led to some of the problems I had later in my life...

You have had problems, you blame it on YOUR problems with porn, and you're going to punish the children for the sins of the father?

You have had problems, you blame it on YOUR problems with porn, and you're going to punish the children for the sins of the father?

To be fair, it isn't punishment. But, imho, it is crossing the line severely. If I had any software like is being proposed, I would be severely pissed off at my parents. However, them being technically proficient to even install a firewall has no chance at all, so it's all g.

To be fair, it isn't punishment. But, imho, it is crossing the line severely. If I had any software like is being proposed, I would be severely pissed off at my parents. However, them being technically proficient to even install a firewall has no chance at all, so it's all g.

'Punishing the children for the sins of the parents' is by way of a reference. It doesn't necessarily imply any actual punitive action, so to speak.

What I'm suggesting is - NeoB appears to be employing (or, is willing to employ) pretty draconian measures, because he had problems.

'Punishing the children for the sins of the parents' is by way of a reference. It doesn't necessarily imply any actual punitive action, so to speak.

What I'm suggesting is - NeoB appears to be employing (or, is willing to employ) pretty draconian measures, because he had problems.

I thoroughly agree.

'Punishing the children for the sins of the parents' is by way of a reference. It doesn't necessarily imply any actual punitive action, so to speak.

What I'm suggesting is - NeoB appears to be employing (or, is willing to employ) pretty draconian measures, because he had problems.

Not really, hes not even blocking sites. Hes making it possible for him to know what his kids are doing on the internet. Thats pretty standard for most parents. This system he seems to want to program is fairly liberal when it comes to implamentation. There are reasons to have such things aside from stopping your kids from seeing "teh pr0n".

Well this doesn't really apply since I doubt you're talking about unix type of setups, but I used to install this (http://dansguardian.org) for people and it seems to work well. Then again, it could perhaps be put into a router and any connections on it would be affected, but who knows.

Not really, hes not even blocking sites. Hes making it possible for him to know what his kids are doing on the internet. Thats pretty standard for most parents. This system he seems to want to program is fairly liberal when it comes to implamentation. There are reasons to have such things aside from stopping your kids from seeing "teh pr0n".

Evidentally is this exactly what he wants to know about. Unless he was installing a key logger, the sites visited would be all he knew.

Evidentally is this exactly what he wants to know about. Unless he was installing a key logger, the sites visited would be all he knew.

Thats what he wants to know, the sites visited. I dont really understand why thats a problem. He said he doesnt even plan on blocking them.

This is pretty standard these days. Dont know whats wrong here.

Yep, again, there is a big difference between being a control freak and being a responsible parent. You can be a responsible parent who gives his kids freedom without controling their lives.
Agreed.

People who seek to control every aspect of their kids lives clearly have no confidence in their own ability to teach values and responibilies to their children, or lack confidence in those values themselves.
I also agree with this. I get really annoyed with parents who over censor their children's options.

If youre a good parent, your kids will be able to make decisions on their own without getting into too much trouble.
I would add the corollary"most of the time" but otherwise I agree. Kids can get into serious trouble seemingly for no reason. (i.e. you did everything you were supposed to and they still fuck up)

Agreed.


I also agree with this. I get really annoyed with parents who over censor their children's options.


I would add the corollary"most of the time" but otherwise I agree. Kids can get into serious trouble seemingly for no reason. (i.e. you did everything you were supposed to and they still fuck up)



I figured most of the time was implied. Even parents still get in trouble:p

All parents are control freaks. It's our freaking job.

As others have said, it's one thing to try to be informed of what your kid is doing and another to go 1984 on him. If you want to know what friends your kid has, you can ask him and be alert when his friends are over at your place. You don't stalk the kid when he's out or install a tracking device under his skin.

If your kid tends to lock himself up in his room and you think that is a problem, you should probably talk to him about it and find another measure other than installing surveillance cameras in the room.

If you're really worried about what your kid is doing on the internet, you can use a system to block websites that doesn't report back to the parents, or even better, to remove internet access from his personal computer and let the family computer in the living room be the internet computer.

I could have told you that. People who thought this was illegal are special, to put it bluntly.
It is illegal in many places to snoop on people without their permission. This is why silently installed spyware is illegal. For this to be legal the mother would probably have to agree (assuming the father has no legal responsibility for the kids), and she'd have to be fully aware of what the software does. He did hint at not fully cluing her in, and this could very well be illegal.

And some parents don't supervise their children at all. They let them eat junk for every meal, and build bombs in their room, and hang out with pedophiles and drug dealers and join gangs and let their 10 year olds watch rape fantasy porn...
And there is a large range of happy medium.

Either you want parents to mind their own children or you do not. I take care of my kids so their existence has little effect over your daily
All I'm contending is that the choice isn't between 'control freak' and 'letting your kids hang out with paedophiles'.