NationStates Jolt Archive

There are about 4000 religions on this planet. So who's right?
How will we measure which god is the right god? By the numbers of fans?

In sources as http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html they say that christianity is counting 2.1 billion people and the islam about 1.5 billion.

But both those religions are not homogenous groups. Both are divided in several subgroups which even like to kill each other for their own subbelief.

Each subgroup is significant smaller has the whole unit, while they are not united.

And even then, it's not because a significant portion likes something that it is good. Look at the TV world. Significant groups of people are watching the most silly trash everyday. But that doesn't make the trash, quality TV. It stays trash.

"Candle In The Wind" from the fag Elton John is considered as the best sold single since ever. But it's an awfull song.

So numbers do not work.

Btw, the biggest group christians are the catholics, counting 1.05 billion people. For islam it are the sunni, counting 940 million people. The atheists, agnost and look a like are counting 1.1 billion fans.

What about age? Zoroastrianism is sometimes named as the oldest one around. But present times, it doesn't count that much numbers anymore.

Should we accept a religion as the one and only if few people are still practicing it. I don't think so.

It seems that age doesn't work either.

So how will we detect the real god from the rest?

HK, hun, what's with the God threads?

they are all the real god.

god is infinite we are not. we only see a glimpse of god and make it into a religion.

kinda like that whole blind guys and elephants story...


or, more likely, there IS no god so everyone is free to make up their own version.

HK, hun, what's with the God threads?

Exactly what I was wondering.

HK, hun, what's with the God threads?

I have to do it. It's ordered by my god ;)

*stands up* its me I am god.

Hullo!

*stands up* its me I am god.
Na-uh, it's me! I'M GOD!

There are about 4000 religions on this planet. So who's right?

The strong agnosts probably.

Na-uh, it's me! I'M GOD!
And so is your wife ?

Be careful, pretending being a god is a kind of a mental disorder.

Na-uh, it's me! I'M GOD!

*stands up* its me I am god.

I'm Spartac... I mean I'm God

The strong agnosts probably.


And so is your wife ?

I'm hearing voices as: "God! Go clean the dishes"

That's an insensitive question. The real god can not stand up because he is paralyzed from the waist down, don't mix binge drinking with driving people.

I'm Spartac... I mean I'm God

Na-uh, it's me! I'M GOD!

shall we form a polytheist religion then? I am sure there is enough donat errr good we can do for all of us.

shall we form a polytheist religion then? I am sure there is enough donat errr good we can do for all of us.

Nah. Let us just all agree that we are puny humans unable to answer this question at our current stage of development, due to being unable to even define "god", let alone the "true god" as well as insufficient knowledge about the universe.

Let us strive towards improving ourselves and our knowledge, for instance by giving all that money to me. I promise I will spend some on studies.

And so is your wife ?
Yeah, funny story about that. You see, at the end of time I'm going to change my gender and travel back to the beginning to take another swing at things. I meet myself, fall instantly in love, and we're married on a lovely little planet that you haven't heard of yet. Which is a real shame, because it is such a nice planet. There's this species of tree that tastes like chocolate, a snake that turns itself into something very much like bratwurst when it dies, and the beaches are made of pure cocaine instead of sand.

I have the boobs. Clearly, I am God.

Nah. Let us just all agree that we are puny humans unable to answer this question at our current stage of development, due to being unable to even define "god", let alone the "true god" as well as insufficient knowledge about the universe.

Let us strive towards improving ourselves and our knowledge, for instance by giving all that money to me. I promise I will spend some on studies.

you are a mortal meant to donat err worship and revere us gods.
For the heresy of calling me a non god my Brainwas errrr devoted followers are in route to murd errr enact divine retribution.

I have the boobs. Clearly, I am God.

you got to marry one of us three gods to do that. unless your a virgin and like to hunt. then we can make you a goddess in that respect.

I have the boobs. Clearly, I am God.

Having the vaj, that mysterious place that transports men to worlds unknown like a stargate between your legs, may make you worthy of worship - but not God yet ;)

Having the vaj, that mysterious place that transports men to worlds unknown like a stargate between your legs, may make you worthy of worship - but not God yet ;)

Heathen!

Having the vaj, that mysterious place that transports men to worlds unknown like a stargate between your legs, may make you worthy of worship - but not God yet ;)

You ripped that off from some webcomic.

I am terribly sorry for all the confusion, but none of you are the real god. It is me, I am dog.

You ripped that off from some webcomic.

Correct. Which I also posted in the first date topic (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14268868&postcount=2695) ;)

I have the boobs. Clearly, I am God.

*Opens the church of Nanatsu* :)

Judging by the title....

Im gonna say its Eminem...

No. The real God can't stand up. He wondered if he could create a beer so strong that drinking it would make him seriously ill. He's currently in the middle of an epic 1,376 year hangover, and can't get out of bed.

So how will we detect the real god from the rest?

Ask Him.

Ask Him.

I did. And the people are looking silly at me.

Do you really hear voices of god?

4 letters, folks.

Listed Below

Beer

4 letters, folks.

Listed Below

Beer


But I don't like Beer I am more a champagne type.

And here started another holy war.

But I don't like Beer, I am more a champagne type.

And here started another holy war.

In the name of beer!

*charges with sword*

Ask Him.

I did, but it got ugly when Buddha and Jesus started brawling. The everyone joined in. Poor Poseidon's trident will never be straight again.

*Opens the church of Nanatsu* :)

:hail:

Kneel before the Spanish inquisition! :D

I thought this was going to be about God doing a comedy routine.

What about the Children of Atom?

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Children_of_the_Atom

What about the Children of Atom?

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Children_of_the_Atom

Or the Jedi Church...

http://www.jedichurch.org/

Or the Jedi Church...

http://www.jedichurch.org/

A cult, that worships A-bombs makes much more sense than some Jedi Church! :p

A cult, that worships A-bombs makes much more sense than some Jedi Church! :p

I saw that movie. Didn't it end with the entire world blowing up?

A cult, that worships A-bombs makes much more sense than some Jedi Church! :p

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I saw that movie. Didn't it end with the entire world blowing up?

Well, I know this thing only from Fallout 3 and Megaton.

Well, I know this thing only from Fallout 3 and Megaton.

The sad thing is that they stole that from "beneath the planet of the apes".

The sad thing is that they stole that from "beneath the planet of the apes".

Or it's a homage to that movie.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I have faith in Bethesda and good games.

If it can be said that there is a deity, then we are all manifestations of that deity. This means we are all God and we've been doing a damned poor job.

I am slightly surprised by the lack of Christians explaining in great detail why their specific subset of Christianity is the only correct one.

"Candle In The Wind" from the fag Elton John is considered as the best sold single since ever. But it's an awfull song.


And there was need to use this word WHY?

There are about 4000 religions on this planet. So who's right?
How will we measure which god is the right god? By the numbers of fans?

In sources as http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html they say that christianity is counting 2.1 billion people and the islam about 1.5 billion.

But both those religions are not homogenous groups. Both are divided in several subgroups which even like to kill each other for their own subbelief.

Each subgroup is significant smaller has the whole unit, while they are not united.

And even then, it's not because a significant portion likes something that it is good. Look at the TV world. Significant groups of people are watching the most silly trash everyday. But that doesn't make the trash, quality TV. It stays trash.

"Candle In The Wind" from the fag Elton John is considered as the best sold single since ever. But it's an awfull song.

So numbers do not work.

Btw, the biggest group christians are the catholics, counting 1.05 billion people. For islam it are the sunni, counting 940 million people. The atheists, agnost and look a like are counting 1.1 billion fans.

What about age? Zoroastrianism is sometimes named as the oldest one around. But present times, it doesn't count that much numbers anymore.

Should we accept a religion as the one and only if few people are still practicing it. I don't think so.

It seems that age doesn't work either.

So how will we detect the real god from the rest?

Seriously? You Can't. A Preacher friend of mine a few years ago lamented that Jesus could walk into a newsroom (his example being Fox News), blazing glory, halo, Angels on guard and all, and the first reaction would be "Nice costume, what'd you pay for it?"

It's because almost certainly, whatever "The Real God" is, it/he/she isn't what you or I would expect-or even what we Can expect.

Oscar Wilde noted that "God created man in his own image, and Man, being a Gentleman, Returned the Favour."

So how will we detect the real god from the rest?
The real God walks with the marginalized and outcasts of society. If you're doing it right, the real God is the only one you'll know; the false ones won't want you anyway.

"Candle In The Wind" from the fag Elton John is considered as the best sold single since ever. But it's an awfull song.

Was that entirely necessary? Did you think there would be confusion as to which "Elton John" you were refering to?

why that's easy, Azaroth is the true god, the Blind Idiot radioactive god
If he wakes up we're screwed

I have the boobs. Clearly, I am God.

Well, this makes about enough sense.

*Opens the church of Nanatsu* :)

*converts*

I thought this was going to be about God doing a comedy routine.

Or a rap song.

WHo has it right? None of the above. No organized religion on Earth has it right.

The closest to 'right' about the nature of God is probably Frisbeetarianism.

I have the boobs. Clearly, I am God.

Bah. Those do not make you god.

Having the vaj, that mysterious place that transports men to worlds unknown like a stargate between your legs, may make you worthy of worship - but not God yet ;)

While worthy of worship, let us not forget the power of the phallus, that mysterious device that transports women to worlds unknown like a rocket mounted between a man's legs, which makes a man worthy of worship - to the point of godhood. ;)

you got to marry one of us three gods to do that. unless your a virgin and like to hunt. then we can make you a goddess in that respect.

Bah. That whole virgin huntress bit is way overrated and over-used. You want real hunting, you've got to be the god hero that hunts and destroys impressive monsters or performs amazing acts of strength that saves entire peoples or drops entire mountains on demons nearly equivalent in power to yourself.

Turning some luckless woodsman/hunter into a herbivore is one thing. Hunting massive poisonous serpents that can either regrow its heads or is so massive that it circles the world is another thing entirely.

Besides, you want a real god to step forward, please forward your request to Chuck Norris. He's the one that Thor and Heracles worship.

The point here is that over the centuries religion has always given the masses hope. Then the masses leave it to the scholars to decide. It just goes on and on. God is not something any one man or any number of men can describe. It's something you have to find for yourself, and in yourself.

Was that entirely necessary? Did you think there would be confusion as to which "Elton John" you were refering to?

I believe the heterosexual lumberjack Elton John also wrote a song called "Candle In The Wind" but it wasn't anywhere near as well known. *nod*

The point here is that over the centuries religion has always given the masses hope. Then the masses leave it to the scholars to decide. It just goes on and on. God is not something any one man or any number of men can describe. It's something you have to find for yourself, and in yourself.

I hope not to find god in myself. As I said, Chuck Norris is the One True God, and if he's in my heart, then it's his fist that's entering my thoracic cavity. I'd prefer that not happen. As for finding him myself, we all know that you don't find Chuck Norris, Chuck Norris finds you.

Or around 85% of Earth's population is retarded.

What about the Children of Atom?

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Children_of_the_Atom

Didnt they die at the end of Beneath the Planet of the Apes, lol...

Although i find it hard to believe one ICBM could destroy a whole planet...

I hope not to find god in myself. As I said, Chuck Norris is the One True God, and if he's in my heart, then it's his fist that's entering my thoracic cavity. I'd prefer that not happen. As for finding him myself, we all know that you don't find Chuck Norris, Chuck Norris finds you.

Chuck Norris isn't a god, he's just so good he can run around the world and punch himself in the back of the head. See they took out of the bible, but when god wanted to make the perfect man, he asked Chuck Norris for a picture.

I believe the heterosexual lumberjack Elton John also wrote a song called "Candle In The Wind" but it wasn't anywhere near as well known. *nod*

Is it anything like this little ditty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg)?

And there was need to use this word WHY?

Some fags do not know Elton is on their side.

What's wrong by serving deep trough information?

Was that entirely necessary? Did you think there would be confusion as to which "Elton John" you were refering to?

You would be amazed about the numbers of "Elton Johns" around.

The real God walks with the marginalized and outcasts of society. If you're doing it right, the real God is the only one you'll know; the false ones won't want you anyway.

If there's a god, he would be here for everyone. I don't believe that he or she's only interested in the poor, the marginal ones and the hillbillies.

I believe the heterosexual lumberjack Elton John also wrote a song called "Candle In The Wind" but it wasn't anywhere near as well known. *nod*

You're mistaken. In the gay subculture it was a massive hit.

I said it before, if there is a god he's pissed off at religions.

Chuck Norris isn't a god, he's just so good he can run around the world and punch himself in the back of the head. See they took out of the bible, but when god wanted to make the perfect man, he asked Chuck Norris for a picture.

I don't know but most women I know consider Chuck Norris as ugly. And he's a lousy actor too.

of course the "real god" can stand up. you just can't see it doing it cause its invisible and bigger then galaxies. but it does give great huggs. and all the major organized beliefs were started by hooomans IT chose to be channelled by. which is why, if you study them in their own context, not in that of the comentary of one about another, or written by another, they really are, very very closely the same. social principals vary from time to time and place to place, but core spiritual principals of all of them are nearly universal.

and don't forget, little furry invisible somethings give great huggs too.

if you want to know WHAT god is, ask a taoist. (who'se answer is basically: whatever you think it is, it isn't!)

people like to think they know what isn't known because of their ego, or sometimes our collective ego as a species, but if you really study religeous writings, at least the ones i have, including primarilty the sacred texts of each belief, you'll find most of what people think they know, isn't in there. its in a kind of 'urban legends' fanatics hold dear about beleifs they claim but don't really know.

I said it before, if there is a god he's pissed off at religions.

So why is that god not changing something about it?

If you can create universes, then you can change the religion state of humans too.

So why is that god not changing something about it?

If you can create universes, then you can change the religion state of humans too.

actually not. because little furry creatures weren't fun enough to play with, it had to go and give us indipendence. well that's the price. if you want someone you can relate to and discuss with on an intellectual level, you've just got to give them the ability to talk back. and there you go.

So why is that god not changing something about it?

If you can create universes, then you can change the religion state of humans too.

Because of this stupid free will thing. I think it has God confused, too.

actually not. because little furry creatures weren't fun enough to play with, it had to go and give us indipendence. well that's the price. if you want someone you can relate to and discuss with on an intellectual level, you've just got to give them the ability to talk back. and there you go.

So you think that a god created all, including humans and then left us?

Isn't that some religion? I forgot the name, please help me out.

Dolphins are considered as very intelligent. In their environment they are superior to us, humans. While they are highly intelligent, we can barely communicate with them.

Maybe something similar is happening with god/gods and us humans?

So why is that god not changing something about it?

If you can create universes, then you can change the religion state of humans too.

As Sir Ralph Richardson eloquently put it when he portrayed God in the movie Time Bandits: "Ah. . .I think it's something to do with free will."

Because of this stupid free will thing. I think it has God confused, too.

But is there something as free will?

Benjamin Libet discovered in an experiment that each time we think that we are taking a conscious decision that we are just following the orders of our brain which formulated, unconscious, this one 250 milliseconds earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet

But is there something as free will?

Benjamin Libet discovered in an experiment that each time we think that we are taking a conscious decision that we are just following the orders of our brain which formulated, unconscious, this one 250 milliseconds earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet

We are our brains. Our brain gives us consciousness, it regulates everything our body does. It could be argued that the rest of our body is designed to do nothing but support the brain. When our brain makes a decision, WE make the decision.. free will.

We are our brains. Our brain gives us consciousness, it regulates everything our body does. It could be argued that the rest of our body is designed to do nothing but support the brain. When our brain makes a decision, WE make the decision.. free will.

Free will doesn't exist in my opinion. By instance, everything we do is completely depended on what happened previously.

Free will doesn't exist in my opinion. By instance, everything we do is completely depended on what happened previously.

I decide things on what i think best benefits me at the place and time and what effects it will have in the future, nothing about the past. I have the option to go through with something or no go through with it, and any hundreds or thousands of possibilities in between. How can you argue that free will doesn't exist? We can override our instinctual behaviors and do as we please.

Free will doesn't exist in my opinion. By instance, everything we do is completely depended on what happened previously.

the real universe cares a whole lot about any of our opinions?
you speak as if we lived in a linear universe rather then a statistical one.

we don't.

So why is that god not changing something about it?

If you can create universes, then you can change the religion state of humans too.

I don't think it's that at all. If there is a god out there, the moment a religious person see's him, he will reject god.

God is a personification, an ideal of the conscious mind if you will, clothed in imagined flesh. And as an ideal, the moment it is seen in reality, it will cease to be an ideal, simply because ideals can change, and sometimes at a whim. A hundred thousand ideals, even those formed by a single religious organization can never, will never, mesh together to form a single entity.

But because there is the ideal, there will be a god. So long as that god never manifests itself. It's a catch 22. If there is a god, man will kill it. If there is no god, man will make one.

[/ramble]

We are our brains. Our brain gives us consciousness, it regulates everything our body does. It could be argued that the rest of our body is designed to do nothing but support the brain. When our brain makes a decision, WE make the decision.. free will.

Yes, but you have to separate it in conscious and unconscious parts. You're not responsible for the unconscious deeds (not necessarily from a legal viewpoint, however most countries have something as involuntary manslaughter, but that's off topic).

In easy words Libet discovered that our brain already said 'reach your arm' before you were aware about the wish to reach your arm.

Yes, but you have to separate it in conscious and unconscious parts. You're not responsible for the unconscious deeds (not necessarily from a legal viewpoint, however most countries have something as involuntary manslaughter, but that's off topic).

In easy words Libet discovered that our brain already said 'reach your arm' before you were aware about the wish to reach your arm.

Thats not enough for me to prove free will does not exist. Millions of conscious and subconscious impulses are being sent through the body at any given second. Subconsciously you may already have made a decision, but it is still you making that decision. His findings don't prove anything other then we have extremely fast translation between the conscious and subconscious.

And involuntary manslaughter is when you killed someone through circumstances outside of your control to my understanding.

the real universe cares a whole lot about any of our opinions?
you speak as if we lived in a linear universe rather then a statistical one.

we don't.

The universe isn't caring about our opinions but it certainly reacts on our deeds.

I don't think we live in a statistical world. Everything is changing, always and it will always do.

Thats not enough for me to prove free will does not exist. Millions of conscious and subconscious impulses are being sent through the body at any given second. Subconsciously you may already have made a decision, but it is still you making that decision. His findings don't prove anything other then we have extremely fast translation between the conscious and subconscious.

And involuntary manslaughter is when you killed someone through circumstances outside of your control to my understanding.

Is it? Before you think "I want to sit down”, your brain was already preparing the sit down order.

IMHO, it's weird we act like this, and we certainly do not understand completely how it is actually working. In the meantime it's sometimes freaking me out (at a certain degree :p)


An example of involuntary manslaughter is: throwing a brick from a bridge, it hits a car and the people inside died.

An example of involuntary manslaughter is: throwing a brick from a bridge, it hits a car and the people inside died.

Killing someone through circumstances outside of your control.

Is it? Before you think "I want to sit down”, your brain was already preparing the sit down order.

IMHO, it's weird we act like this, and we certainly do not understand completely how it is actually working. In the meantime it's sometimes freaking me out (at a certain degree :p)


Your subconscious mind is your mind. Most decisions are made subconsciously before conscious thought is applied. Its no argument against free will. Its not like some cosmic being is holding a cosmic gun filled with cosmic bullets to you consciousness and saying "Sit down!"

Killing someone through circumstances outside of your control.

The brick story is a legal example of involuntary manslaughter.

For my own morals it's not. If you throw a brick from a bridge, not by accident, then you're aware you're doing it. Sane people just know that it could happen that someone could be hit by the brick and die.

For me, it's not that involuntary. But hey, I'm not the law.

Your subconscious mind is your mind. Most decisions are made subconsciously before conscious thought is applied. Its no argument against free will. Its not like some cosmic being is holding a cosmic gun filled with cosmic bullets to you consciousness and saying "Sit down!"

You have more or less the same opinion as Daniel Dennet. He called it Cartesian theater.

He accepted determinism, but wanted to keep free will too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_theater

The universe isn't caring about our opinions but it certainly reacts on our deeds.

I don't think we live in a statistical world. Everything is changing, always and it will always do.

and this makes causalities that happen in reality, the majority of them linear rather then statistical? how?

i'm guessing from your statement that you don't entirely understand the concept statistical causality. it certainly is NOT randomness.

if you take a large enough body of instances, there is a bell curve distribution of their consiquences arround the highest probability of consiquence, tapering off to the sides.

i know a lot of people seem to have a hard time getting the mind arround such a concept but that IS how a lot of things, both in the sciences and socially, actually work.

take kharma for example. you see a few people seeming to get away with things all the time, and yet statistically, the odds are, you/i, are almost inevitable to get caught. why? because more people actually do then "get away with it".

that's one example. but its typical.

its another way of saying there are no (or few) guarantees in real life, but we can blessed well improve or worsen the odds.

(and no one, not even a god, 'beats the odds' forever)

Actually, I think the Pinocchio Argument is better in this situation...

Damnit I can't find the fucking clip from the cartoon in English, but its in every other fucking language... so this will have to suffice:

I've got no strings
To hold me down
To make me fret, or make me frown
I had strings
But now I'm free
There are no strings on me
Hi-ho the me-ri-o
That's the only way to go
I want the world to know
Nothing ever worries me
Hi-ho the me-ri-o
I'm as happy as can be
I want the world to know
Nothing ever worries me
I've got no strings
So I have fun
I'm not tied up to anyone
They've got strings
But you can see
There are no strings on me

As the great Pinocchio once said "There are no strings on me!"

and this makes causalities that happen in reality, the majority of them linear rather then statistical? how?

i'm guessing from your statement that you don't entirely understand the concept statistical causality. it certainly is NOT randomness.

if you take a large enough body of instances, there is a bell curve distribution of their consiquences arround the highest probability of consiquence, tapering off to the sides.

i know a lot of people seem to have a hard time getting the mind arround such a concept but that IS how a lot of things, both in the sciences and socially, actually work.

take kharma for example. you see a few people seeming to get away with things all the time, and yet statistically, the odds are, you/i, are almost inevitable to get caught. why? because more people actually do then "get away with it".

that's one example. but its typical.

its another way of saying there are no (or few) guarantees in real life, but we can blessed well improve or worsen the odds.

(and no one, not even a god, 'beats the odds' forever)

I don't believe in karma.

I know that what you see is not what you see. It's a simplification of all. A human brain can't process all information it sees and hears. It's like that you're brain is getting a start and end shot and afterwards filling up the gaps. That's why we easily can mislead our brain.

More info at:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/923864/Mind-Tricks

I don't believe in karma.

I know that what you see is not what you see. It's a simplification of all. A human brain can't process all information it sees and hears. It's like that you're brain is getting a start and end shot and afterwards filling up the gaps. That's why we easily can mislead our brain.

More info at:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/923864/Mind-Tricks

we can mislead our brain, but not the statistical causalities that occur in a very big and very VERY diverse universe. one TOO diverse to prevent 'free will', or care about doing so. and you don't have to believe in "kharma", that's really just another way of talking about the same kind of statistical probability; another name for it.

as is the reality behind the more strictly defined rewards and punishments of some beliefs, or interpretations of them.

@Cameroi,

If you don't know this one then try it out, very fun:

http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

Looks like I posted something so ludicrous nobody is going to touch it. Does that mean I got my point across?

Actually, I think the Pinocchio Argument is better in this situation...

Damnit I can't find the fucking clip from the cartoon in English, but its in every other fucking language... so this will have to suffice:



As the great Pinocchio once said "There are no strings on me!"

I never heard about the Pinocchio Argument, I'm sorry.

Maybe it's my poor knowledge of English, but I don't understand the point of the story.

Looks like I posted something so ludicrous nobody is going to touch it. Does that mean I got my point across?

i think it means it went completely over everyone's heads. that or like me, they were too focused on other aspects of the argument.

i might question the point slightly, but not the 'strings' of interconnectedness of all things.

free will ISN'T a COMPLETE either or. at any given instant the percentage of what is choice and what is factors beyond direct and imediate choice is constantly fluctuating, wildly and seemingly randomly.

at one instant it might be 70% choice, 30% 'fate' (which is just another way of saying everything we don't have complete and immidiate control over), and the next 55/45 or 87/13.

my point being we always have SOME choice and SOME not choice.
as for god or gods, which i think was also your point, even complete omnipotence combined with complete omniscience does not add up to anything near complete infallability.

a god not able to stand up because of no strings on it, while an interesting concept, is perhapse a bit of a nonsequiter to the concept of whatever a god might be, what makes a god a god.

on the other hand, the point of everything that CAN stand up having to have strings on it of SOME kind, i find the 'having to' part not so compelling as the almost inevitable likelyhood of doing so.

a god would be the only thing that could stand up without strings, but how do we know it can't or doesn't? we don't. we know, or can reasonably surmise, its being that much greater then ourselves, whatever strings are on it are not at all likely ours, or at least not individually nor even of individual perspectives intrests among US. but that doesn't entirely mean there can't be.

what if god had/has a bigger 'daddy god', who gave it this at first empty universe as a place to stay out of trouble and play, but forgot to throw any of its favorite toys in there for it to play with, so in its lonelyness and bordom, created us and our universe for something to do.

but i think another thing we need to understand, it ISN'T just OUR universe, its far too big and diverse for that. sooner or latter we're going to have to grow up and realize, like good brothers and sisters, we HAVE TO shaire it with other sentient spiritual 'people' just like ourselves, (without happening to LOOK anything like us) on other worlds in it.

(as well as shairing each of our worlds we live on, with the other life forms on these worlds, their interacting web of life, and thus our own existence, also utterly depends upon)

i think it means it went completely over everyone's heads. that or like me, they were too focused on other aspects of the argument.

i might question the point slightly, but not the 'strings' of interconnectedness of all things.

free will ISN'T a COMPLETE either or. at any given instant the percentage of what is choice and what is factors beyond direct and imediate choice is constantly fluctuating, wildly and seemingly randomly.

at one instant it might be 70% choice, 30% 'fate' (which is just another way of saying everything we don't have complete and immidiate control over), and the next 55/45 or 87/13.

my point being we always have SOME choice and SOME not choice.
as for god or gods, which i think was also your point, even complete omnipotence combined with complete omniscience does not add up to anything near complete infallability.

a god not able to stand up because of no strings on it, while an interesting concept, is perhapse a bit of a nonsequiter to the concept of whatever a god might be, what makes a god a god.

on the other hand, the point of everything that CAN stand up having to have strings on it of SOME kind, i find the 'having to' part not so compelling as the almost inevitable likelyhood of doing so.

a god would be the only thing that could stand up without strings, but how do we know it can't or doesn't? we don't. we know, or can reasonably surmise, its being that much greater then ourselves, whatever strings are on it are not at all likely ours, or at least not individually nor even of individual perspectives intrests among US. but that doesn't entirely mean there can't be.

what if god had/has a bigger 'daddy god', who gave it this at first empty universe as a place to stay out of trouble and play, but forgot to throw any of its favorite toys in there for it to play with, so in its lonelyness and bordom, created us and our universe for something to do.

but i think another thing we need to understand, it ISN'T just OUR universe, its far too big and diverse for that. sooner or latter we're going to have to grow up and realize, like good brothers and sisters, we HAVE TO shaire it with other sentient spiritual 'people' just like ourselves, (without happening to LOOK anything like us) on other worlds in it.

(as well as shairing each of our worlds we live on, with the other life forms on these worlds, their interacting web of life, and thus our own existence, also utterly depends upon)



I share your opinion in big lines. I certainly agree that the universe is too big to be created for us and us alone. We, humans, will probably never visit 99,9999999999% of the universe. So if it was created for us, why wasting so much energy and matter?

Actually, I think the Pinocchio Argument is better in this situation...

Damnit I can't find the fucking clip from the cartoon in English, but its in every other fucking language... so this will have to suffice:



As the great Pinocchio once said "There are no strings on me!"

So Pinocchio is god!

You would be amazed about the numbers of "Elton Johns" around.

That wrote a popular single called "Candle in the Wind", yet are not gay?

I believe the heterosexual lumberjack Elton John also wrote a song called "Candle In The Wind" but it wasn't anywhere near as well known. *nod*

Actually, his name was John Elton and he wrote a song called "Candle in the Wand."

The solution to the problem lies here:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJpZOljjG8

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-11/happy-holidays-card-flying-spaghetti-monster.gif

Actually, his name was John Elton and he wrote a song called "Candle in the Wand."

And I fear he preferred sheep over females.

Or maybe we get to find out who's right after we die.

I have faith that I am following the right. I'll not proselytize here, although I am sure my religious leaders would rather I did, as there is some slim chance I could save another soul that way.

I have the boobs. Clearly, I am God.pics. I want to see the divine boobs!

you got to marry one of us three gods to do that. unless your a virgin and like to hunt. then we can make you a goddess in that respect. hmmm... I can't see the Goddess of Fertility being a virgin.

You ripped that off from some webcomic.

Gee... I wonder... (http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3011) :p

I never heard about the Pinocchio Argument, I'm sorry.

Maybe it's my poor knowledge of English, but I don't understand the point of the story.

It was meant as a joke, but I think it got my point across. In the Disney Cartoon Pinocchio sings the song I posted earlier. There are no Strings on Me, meaning nothing was controlling his decisions. I was being a dumbass...

There are about 4000 religions on this planet. So who's right?
How will we measure which god is the right god? By the numbers of fans?

I don't think we'll ever know who is "right".

And even then, it's not because a significant portion likes something that it is good. Look at the TV world. Significant groups of people are watching the most silly trash everyday. But that doesn't make the trash, quality TV. It stays trash.

Likening Islam to trash TV is a rather unusual analogy, but to quote "religion is the opiate of the masses". People say the same thing about television too.

"Candle In The Wind" from the fag Elton John is considered as the best sold single since ever.

Actually, last time I checked, it was Sir Elton John.

Gee... I wonder... (http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3011) :p

Alright fine, I had a Captain Obvious moment there! Happy?

So who's right?

I am!

*Wages non-holy war on the believers*

Well, I know this thing only from Fallout 3 and Megaton.

Fallout 1 had a church being blown up with an atomic bomb and a (former) military research being blown up and Fallout 2 had an oil platform blown up with a reactor meltdown.

And I fear he preferred sheep over females.

Yes but, to be fair, they were female sheep. So, at least he wasn't one a them thar faygets what makes da baybee Jeezuz cry!!1!!1:D

Or maybe we get to find out who's right after we die.

I have faith that I am following the right. I'll not proselytize here, although I am sure my religious leaders would rather I did, as there is some slim chance I could save another soul that way.
unless you belong to some obscure sect the chances that anyone reading this thread doesnt already know about your belief is slim.

slim X slim is damned slim.

its far more likely that you will piss off everyone else.

i think we have around 6 billion gods they are all inside us everyone has a god it just depends on how you deal with him

i think we have around 6 billion gods they are all inside us everyone has a god it just depends on how you deal with him

My god is much bigger than yours.

thats what we call ego god

Alright fine, I had a Captain Obvious moment there! Happy?
no. I'm irritated that you got to use that quote before I did. :( ;) :D

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b220/DStudios1/zoid0il.jpg

Or around 85% of Earth's population is retarded.

Certainly a possibility...

The real god is Stephen Hawking, so no.

There are about 4000 religions on this planet. So who's right?

...

So how will we detect the real god from the rest?You're assuming that there is, in fact, such a thing as a non-contextual "true" religion. Just looking at what people do in fact believe and (more importantly) how they believe it shows that the things you mentioned in your first post aren't important - number of believers, age of religion, etc.

How do people learn to be religious? Live religiously? Learn to trust in God? Learn to use the word God? Those are good questions to ask. I think if you can answer them, you'll have answered your original problem.