NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently, an awful lot of people seem to think that's the case.
The reason for this thread is an article I just read in Spiegel online (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,594094,00.html) - unfortunately it's in German, so I'll give a quick summary.

A prison inmate sued the prison for treating men and women differently. Specifically, the prison in question allowed women to spend 25 Euros on cosmetics and 30 Euros on phonecards each month (their own money, mind you!), while not allowing the male inmates the same.
The prisoner went through all the instances of German justice, and finally got the case decided in his favour in front of the Supreme Court.
All the courts below that had claimed that women have naturally a tendency to use more cosmetics, and a higher need for communication - to quote the article : If it stinks and is silent it's got to be a man.

I have to admit that I find this a very strange argument indeed... so, how many of you think that women have an inate need to talk more and to use more cosmetics than men?

I think that's quite silly.

What's this odd thing you speak of... cos...me...tics?? Never heard of it; never used it.

Good for him. I wonder what his buddy prison mates will say when he can finally wear lipstick and smell like flowers. :tongue:

Good for him. I wonder what his buddy prison mates will say when he can finally wear lipstick and smell like flowers. :tongue:

Bend over.

Good for him. I wonder what his buddy prison mates will say when he can finally wear lipstick and smell like flowers. :tongue:

*lol

In fairness, 25 Euros a month isn't much, considering that normally things like deodorant are counted as cosmetics. ;)

Prisoner#1: "We have basketball at 3:00"
Prisoner#2: "Can't do mate, I have to meet my manicure"

*lol

In fairness, 25 Euros a month isn't much, considering that normally things like deodorant are counted as cosmetics. ;)

All the more reason why men should be allowed to buy deodorant. As for phone calls that is quite funny not allowing them to phone people at all.

All right which post was it that made "Gay chubby dating" the selective advertisement?

I think women, in general (I know there are many exceptions to the rule) do have a stronger need to communicate. We're not, however, parrots with a constant need to talk. But we do tend to be more communicative.

As for the cosmetics. No. We do not have a tendecy to use more make-up. I, for example, only use cosmetics when the need for them arise. My everyday is without make-up (not to mention that I hate putting on mascara, eye-shadow and lipstick), unless there's something important happening.

make up can make you feel better. i have no problem with it.

but the money limits should be the same for men and women. if a man wants to wear make up he should have the same access to it as women do.

As an archaeologist I can tell you that there is evidence ochre being used to decorate objects and people from very early sites in our evolution. Human decoration is a natural desire concurrent throughout almost all civilisations and for both sexes.

http://www.conchsoc.org/interests/shell-decorations.php - shells and beads

search ochre human decoration and click on the link why wear make up for an essay on the subject which outlines the basics.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/503923/ more basic info on human decoration

in many past societies men adorned themselves in make up in much the same way as women, and in many subcultures of modern society men still do.

http://members.tripod.com/~ancient_egypt/dema.html

I would add that men shave, dye hair, use skin lotions, style hair, choose clothing based on appearance, while most do not apply make-up men also do a large amount of working on there appearance.

As for women talking more in my personal experience I find men and women to talk an equal amount. I don't find that in my circle of friends women or men talk more than each other but talk equally.

It is my belief that these residual conceptions of male and female are due mainly to years of anti woman dogma from male dominated society, in Europe's case stemming from religious bodies such as the catholic church, it's effect on the status of women in early medieval and medieval Europe, not due to the actual natural state of genders

*lol

In fairness, 25 Euros a month isn't much, considering that normally things like deodorant are counted as cosmetics. ;)

Are tampons also considered "cosmetics"? If so, then yes women would innately spend more on things like that then men.

I don't think the phone card thing is fair at all.

Bend over.
Who is this Ben Dover you're talking about?
*lol

In fairness, 25 Euros a month isn't much, considering that normally things like deodorant are counted as cosmetics. ;)
Then what about those disposable razors (those build-in ones, not the old razor blades)? Or are you forced to use an electrical one?
I think women, in general (I know there are many exceptions to the rule) do have a stronger need to communicate. We're not, however, parrots with a constant need to talk. But we do tend to be more communicative.
Right... "We're not gossiping, we're simply analyzing the situation."
As for women talking more in my personal experience I find men and women to talk an equal amount. I don't find that in my circle of friends women or men talk more than each other but talk equally.
I find that women talk more and say less.

Right... "We're not gossiping, we're simply analyzing the situation."

What are you implying, that we're mere chatter-boxes?

Are tampons also considered "cosmetics"? If so, then yes women would innately spend more on things like that then men.

Sexist.

Sexist.

Yep. But just to show goodwill, here's a box of tampons for you too. Please remember to use them all because you'll get another box next month.

What are you implying, that we're mere chatter-boxes?
I'm not implying anything. I'm just quoting what I've heard women say about their chit-chat.

I'm not implying anything. I'm just quoting what I've heard women say about their chit-chat.

Men do the same, darling.:wink:

That's.....silly.

Yep. But just to show goodwill, here's a box of tampons for you too. Please remember to use them all because you'll get another box next month.

Thanks! Do I serve them as a side dish or as part of the main course?

Men do the same, darling.:wink:
Do not! :p (At least our topics are waaay different!!!)

Do not! :p (At least our topics are waaay different!!!)

Do too!
You're even more gossipy than women.:tongue:

Apparently, an awful lot of people seem to think that's the case.
The reason for this thread is an article I just read in Spiegel online (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,594094,00.html) - unfortunately it's in German, so I'll give a quick summary.

A prison inmate sued the prison for treating men and women differently. Specifically, the prison in question allowed women to spend 25 Euros on cosmetics and 30 Euros on phonecards each month (their own money, mind you!), while not allowing the male inmates the same.
The prisoner went through all the instances of German justice, and finally got the case decided in his favour in front of the Supreme Court.
All the courts below that had claimed that women have naturally a tendency to use more cosmetics, and a higher need for communication - to quote the article : If it stinks and is silent it's got to be a man.

I have to admit that I find this a very strange argument indeed... so, how many of you think that women have an inate need to talk more and to use more cosmetics than men?

Same old sexist shit, it's the 21st century already!

Thanks! Do I serve them as a side dish or as part of the main course?

No, dear. You have to use them for their intended purpose.

Do too!
You're even more gossipy than women.:tongue:
Not!
That's a blatant lie!!! :)

Are tampons also considered "cosmetics"? If so, then yes women would innately spend more on things like that then men.

I don't think the phone card thing is fair at all.

Arent tampons considered like medical thingies?

Men and Women don't share prisons.

All right which post was it that made "Gay chubby dating" the selective advertisement?

don't google ads also work by what you've been searching? :tongue:

As an archaeologist

thats not an valid occupation (those pay the bills)

Yep. But just to show goodwill, here's a box of tampons for you too. Please remember to use them all because you'll get another box next month.

yay (http://www.tamponcrafts.com/)! (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vdXQQfX_i_0&feature=related)

edit: oh dear time to send the kids to bed (http://www.tamponcrafts.com/heart.html)

Not!
That's a blatant lie!!! :)

It is not. You men love to gossip and brag about your sexual conquests and what-not.

don't google ads also work by what you've been searching? :tongue:

lol, but as I type this it is advertising a X-ray scanner for my phone, those three things (X-ray, scanner and phone) I have never searched for.

Are tampons also considered "cosmetics"? If so, then yes women would innately spend more on things like that then men.

I don't think the phone card thing is fair at all.

I imagine that's considered Hygiene though no idea how the German prison system divides those things up though.

I imagine that's considered Hygiene though no idea how the German prison system divides those things up though.

I would have assumed that deodorant would have been hygiene as well. Cabra says it's cosmetic though.

No, that is incredibly sexist.

For one, my girlfriend looks terrific without cosmetics (in fact, one of the only times she did wear make up, I didn't realize it and told her that she looked "weird").

And for two, cosmetics are beautifying items. They have nothing to do with hygiene (deodorant, soap, tampons), which should be provided by prisons anyway. Cosmetics make you look, smell and feel pretty, which is not a necessity, and maybe shouldn't even be a privilege in prisons, therefore it is completely sexist for women to receive cosmetics but not men. Hygiene is necessary, cosmetics aren't.

As for talking, that is extremely sexist. Women ARE chatterboxes, but so ARE men. Girls "gossip", guys "shoot the bs". Really, its the same thing, and if I was a prisoner, I'd DAMN well want to call my family too.

cosmetics is one of those things like drug addiction: the more its used the more there is a perceived need for it, a need that would be much lower, in nearly all cases, had they never been used to begin with.

that goes for both women AND men.

might i suggest, rather then face paint and deoderant, taking a bath?

Hopefully men get 55 Euros for manly stuff like err guns or something.

Maybe the make-up is to cover up tattoos that the she-hulks are afraid to show?... Still, very stupid money splittin'!

on a side note i tend to date girls who don't wear makeup.

cosmetics is one of those things like drug addiction: the more its used the more there is a perceived need for it, a need that would be much lower, in nearly all cases, had they never been used to begin with.

that goes for both women AND men.

might i suggest, rather then face paint and deoderant, taking a bath?

I'll keep my deoderant, thanks.

To add on to the "addiction" point, I think that because I use moisturiser and because I use lip balm, I always seem to need it. Your skin becomes accustomed to it.

on a side note i tend to date girls who don't wear makeup.

Yeah, girls who wear a lot of make up aren't really attractive, are they? No make up or very little make up always looks healthier and more natural than full-blown face paint.

I'll keep my deoderant, thanks.

To add on to the "addiction" point, I think that because I use moisturiser and because I use lip balm, I always seem to need it. Your skin becomes accustomed to it.



Yeah, girls who wear a lot of make up aren't really attractive, are they? No make up or very little make up always looks healthier and more natural than full-blown face paint.

AGREED. Everything in moderation, it seems.

Idk if its an innate need for cosmetics....as much an innate need to look good...

Most Men i dont think care as much about their looks...some do, but not most...

And, it is generally regarded that cosmetics make women look better, or more attractive, so it eventually gets down to that...

Not to mention, that Cosmetics as a rule arent marketed towards men and generally arent designed to enhance male features...

What are you implying, that we're mere chatter-boxes?

IMS, studies have shown that women, on average, use more words per day than men.

As for cosmetics, I imagine that women use more than men, but I don't see how that translates to an innate need for cosmetics.

Thanks! Do I serve them as a side dish or as part of the main course?
You put them up your roommates nose every time they snore.
No, dear. You have to use them for their intended purpose.

Where's the fun in that? :confused:

I don't see why they can't give them both the phone cards. Cosmetics are not necessary -- for pete's sake, unless I am going to a wedding, on a date, or to open school night, I don't put makeup on. But hey, if an allowance for cosmetics is given to the girls, give the same to the guys -- they may not use it, but it'll be there for them if they want it.

The men should be able to spend their money on cosmetics as well, obviously.

That said, for the people who say "of course women don't need cosmetics!" - physically, sure, I agree with you. I can tell you, though, that if I were forced to be seen by others every day without any makeup at all, I would quite literally have a nervous breakdown, because it's been so thoroughly conditioned into me that I look like a hideous monster without at least a little concealer - and while I'm a fairly extreme case, I have no doubt that there are other women who feel similarly (especially since I've personally met several of them). I don't dispute that it's a stupid and irrational feeling, but denying those women whatever cosmetic it is they need would be pretty much akin to deliberately screwing with the organization of an inmate with severe OCD - it's just unnecessarily vicious.

Where's the fun in that? :confused:

It's not fun.

My ladyfriend doesn't wear any makeup at all. She looks just fine. Actually, that's incorrect. She looks beautiful.

I think thats ridiculous. Either men can spend money on things, or women can't. Its unfair treatment otherwise.

I've always hated make-up (not counting deodorant and perfume - I love smelling good). It takes too much time and trouble to put it on, it never looks right and by the end of the day it's all worn off anyway.

Smelling good, however, is different.

You know, I actually like no makeup. Something more natural about it that's intensely attractive...plus, as an added benefit, I know for a fact that it's not just makeup, alcohol and bad lighting that makes someone attractive.

I know for a fact that it's not just makeup, alcohol and bad lighting that makes someone attractive.

But they do their part!

Idk if its an innate need for cosmetics....as much an innate need to look good...

Most Men i dont think care as much about their looks...some do, but not most...

And, it is generally regarded that cosmetics make women look better, or more attractive, so it eventually gets down to that...

Not to mention, that Cosmetics as a rule arent marketed towards men and generally arent designed to enhance male features...

It's regarded that cosmetics make women look better because the media and advertising tells us it makes women look better.

The men should be able to spend their money on cosmetics as well, obviously.

That said, for the people who say "of course women don't need cosmetics!" - physically, sure, I agree with you. I can tell you, though, that if I were forced to be seen by others every day without any makeup at all, I would quite literally have a nervous breakdown, because it's been so thoroughly conditioned into me that I look like a hideous monster without at least a little concealer - and while I'm a fairly extreme case, I have no doubt that there are other women who feel similarly (especially since I've personally met several of them). I don't dispute that it's a stupid and irrational feeling, but denying those women whatever cosmetic it is they need would be pretty much akin to deliberately screwing with the organization of an inmate with severe OCD - it's just unnecessarily vicious.

Cosmetics are not a neccesity. If you are in jail, you are supposed to be punished. A criminal doesn't have the right to "look pretty" in jail. If a woman killed someone, what difference is mascara going to make? Make-up is a luxury. If an inmate had an irrational need for make-up, she'd just have to get over it. If an inmate has a skin condition that requires special moisturiser, for example, that is a medical concern rather than a cosmetic one.

Cosmetics are not a neccesity. If you are in jail, you are supposed to be punished. A criminal doesn't have the right to "look pretty" in jail. If a woman killed someone, what difference is mascara going to make? Make-up is a luxury. If an inmate had an irrational need for make-up, she'd just have to get over it. If an inmate has a skin condition that requires special moisturiser, for example, that is a medical concern rather than a cosmetic one.

Thats a more eloquent way of saying what I meant.

Yeah, girls who wear a lot of make up aren't really attractive, are they? No make up or very little make up always looks healthier and more natural than full-blown face paint.

that and women who don't wear make up tend to be less bitchy.

It's regarded that cosmetics make women look better because the media and advertising tells us it makes women look better.


True, but People Bought it just the same...In this day and age, the Media dictates your Culture...for better or worse ;)

It's regarded that cosmetics make women look better because the media and advertising tells us it makes women look better.



Cosmetics are not a neccesity. If you are in jail, you are supposed to be punished. A criminal doesn't have the right to "look pretty" in jail. If a woman killed someone, what difference is mascara going to make? Make-up is a luxury. If an inmate had an irrational need for make-up, she'd just have to get over it. If an inmate has a skin condition that requires special moisturiser, for example, that is a medical concern rather than a cosmetic one.

mascara could help her flirt with the parole board and secure an earlier parole.

mascara could help her flirt with the parole board and secure an earlier parole.

No. Opening her legs might help though. Make up doesn't make an ugly person pretty.

No. Opening her legs might help though. Make up doesn't make an ugly person pretty.

yeah thats more the job of Tequila

"Wenn es müffelt und nicht spricht, ist es ein Mann."
I love it.
I mean, of course, it is terrible and sexist and I'm utterly outraged at the policy and blah, blah, blah. I still love that sentence.

Yep. But just to show goodwill, here's a box of tampons for you too. Please remember to use them all because you'll get another box next month.
I understand that, under extreme circumstances, tampons can be used for reducing bleeding from bullet and stab wounds.

Cosmetics are not a neccesity. If you are in jail, you are supposed to be punished. A criminal doesn't have the right to "look pretty" in jail. If a woman killed someone, what difference is mascara going to make? Make-up is a luxury. If an inmate had an irrational need for make-up, she'd just have to get over it. If an inmate has a skin condition that requires special moisturiser, for example, that is a medical concern rather than a cosmetic one.

I don't believe I was talking about "looking pretty," but hey, why bother responding to what I actually said?

I don't believe I was talking about "looking pretty," but hey, why bother responding to what I actually said?
It is a matter of looking pretty. You've so internalized standards of appearance that you get twitchy when you can't conform to them.

Ah, yes, because there is no difference between "twitchy" and "nervous breakdown."

SNIP SNIP
I don't dispute that it's a stupid and irrational feeling, but denying those women whatever cosmetic it is they need would be pretty much akin to deliberately screwing with the organization of an inmate with severe OCD - it's just unnecessarily vicious.

Prison must be hell for an OCD sufferer. Prison's aren't especially clean.

Cosmetics for gov't personnel, like military, sure, because it's a matter of morale. Prisoners in a prison? WTF, hell no.

Cosmetics for gov't personnel, like military, sure, because it's a matter of morale. Prisoners in a prison? WTF, hell no.

What exactly is the point of barring prisoners from spending their own money on cosmetics if they so choose?

What exactly is the point of barring prisoners from spending their own money on cosmetics if they so choose?

Heck, what's the point of prison, just let them stay at a resort to serve their time. With their own money, of course; no need to get crazy. :salute:

And the male prisoners, well only the smiley ones are going to want cosmetics, if you know what I mean. But cell phones should be equal. I mean, it's very cruel to disallow male inmates from threatening witnesses or calling in hits on them. If not that then they should be allowed beer, hbo, or whatever else a man needs.

No. Opening her legs might help though. Make up doesn't make an ugly person pretty.

So only ugly women go to prison?

Heck, what's the point of prison, just let them stay at a resort to serve their time. With their own money, of course; no need to get crazy. :salute:

And the male prisoners, well only the smiley ones are going to want cosmetics, if you know what I mean. But cell phones should be equal. I mean, it's very cruel to disallow male inmates from threatening witnesses or calling in hits on them. If not that then they should be allowed beer, hbo, or whatever else a man needs.

That is one heck of a strawman there. Going straight from a stated position of "I don't see the harm in letting prisoners buy themselves lipstick" to "I don't see the harm in letting prisoners hire hit men" may just have earned you your own special place in the Nonsensical Argument Hall of Fame! Congratulations! :rolleyes:

As an archaeologist I can tell you that there is evidence ochre being used to decorate objects and people from very early sites in our evolution. Human decoration is a natural desire concurrent throughout almost all civilisations and for both sexes.


That's a fact. I used to have lipstick plants growing along the path in front of my house - the stuff was impossible to remove from anything it touched. Anyway, I was told that the local indians used those for cosmetics hundreds, if not a thousand years ago, as did the mesopotamians. Neat stuff.

As to allowing it in prison, I'm in favor. The more you give a prisoner, the more you can take away. The more you can take away, the more leverage you have over them. I've seen kids (wards) inform on their fellow inmates for as little as a Snickers bar, or a can of Orange Crush. I'm not saying they ought to be given 60-inch plasma screen t.v.s, but little luxuries are great for keeping inmates compliant.

I don't believe I was talking about "looking pretty," but hey, why bother responding to what I actually said?

It is a matter of "looking pretty". If someone's insecure and needs make up to make them feel better about themselves, that's fine, but if you're in jail, who cares about your insecurities?

It's like giving someone who has an eating disorder extra money to let them buy organic celery instead of just making them eat what everyone else is having. Either she can suck it up and eat the food, or starve.

If the person has extreme mental problems, perhaps they should be in a mental institution rather than a prison.

Prison must be hell for an OCD sufferer. Prison's aren't especially clean.

Of course it would be.
But if that OCD sufferer kills a guy, then they reap what they sow.

So only ugly women go to prison?

Because THAT'S what I said. :rolleyes:

What exactly is the point of barring prisoners from spending their own money on cosmetics if they so choose?

It shouldn't be barred, but they shouldn't be given extra money for it.

Cosmetics for gov't personnel, like military, sure, because it's a matter of morale. Prisoners in a prison? WTF, hell no.

Do you think female personnel should be allowed more money for cosmetics than men?

I don't think so.

That is one heck of a strawman there. Going straight from a stated position of "I don't see the harm in letting prisoners buy themselves lipstick" to "I don't see the harm in letting prisoners hire hit men" may just have earned you your own special place in the Nonsensical Argument Hall of Fame! Congratulations! :rolleyes:

Either way the point stands that prison isn't supposed to be a vacation. If lack of fancy cosmetics bothers inmates, good, I don't see the problem. We're not talking about depriving them of good hygiene or anything like that.

Do you think female personnel should be allowed more money for cosmetics than men?

I don't think so.

No, I don't either. I don't see how they would have to. How the heck expensive are cosmetics?? I mean, are we talking about fancy perfume, or what? They obviously offer supplies to the men like shaving cream, etc, right? I doubt that cost wise it has to be much different for women.

Either way the point stands that prison isn't supposed to be a vacation. If lack of fancy cosmetics bothers inmates, good, I don't see the problem. We're not talking about depriving them of good hygiene or anything like that.

Given that the OP already mentioned that deodorant is considered a cosmetic, we are in fact talking about depriving them of good hygiene. We are not, however, talking about "fancy cosmetics" by any stretch of the imagination. We are simply talking about whether inmates should be able to buy themselves small quantities of cheap cosmetic products with their own money. Again, I see no particular reason why they shouldn't, and a few good reasons why they should, one of them being that, as I mentioned, more than a few people get deeply miserable when they are not allowed what they consider basic needs, even if those needs are not ones you personally share.


No, I don't either. I don't see how they would have to. How the heck expensive are cosmetics?? I mean, are we talking about fancy perfume, or what? They obviously offer supplies to the men like shaving cream, etc, right? I doubt that cost wise it has to be much different for women.

We are most definitely not talking about "fancy perfume" at 25 euros per month. :rolleyes:

It shouldn't be barred, but they shouldn't be given extra money for it.

Did you read the OP? Just curious.

Given that the OP already mentioned that deodorant is considered a cosmetic, we are in fact talking about depriving them of good hygiene.

The OP was vague, and given the fact that they had to gall to include cell phones in those perks, I saw the whole thing in a different light. The cell phones are over the top for sure.

We are simply talking about whether inmates should be able to buy themselves small quantities of cheap cosmetic products with their own money. Again, I see no particular reason why they shouldn't,

I thought it was about whether just women should be allowed it, or more so, that is what the article is about, right?

and a few good reasons why they should, one of them being that, as I mentioned, more than a few people get deeply miserable when they are not allowed what they consider basic needs, even if those needs are not ones you personally share.

If it's not avoiding something life threatening, it's not a need, not in prison. If it was up to me I wouldn't allow it. As long as they're clean and bug free, that's all they need to get. These cosmetics (which you try to imply was merely deodorants, so whatever, I don't know) and cell phones are a ridiculous permission. The real point here is why should women be allowed it over men? Why can't the male rapists and murderers get their own perks? I can think of plenty of reasons as to why not.

What If I murder 10 people then demand as much chocolate cake as I can afford to be a "need" in prison? I'm not a woman? Well, I'm special me, I need this. I couldn't have it? Then nobody's getting a thing except the basics, and that's the way it should be. But it's not up to me, obviously.

The OP was vague, and given the fact that they had to gall to include cell phones in those perks, I saw the whole thing in a different light. The cell phones are over the top for sure.



I thought it was about whether just women should be allowed it, or more so, that is what the article is about, right?



If it's not avoiding something life threatening, it's not a need, not in prison. If it was up to me I wouldn't allow it. As long as they're clean and bug free, that's all they need to get. These cosmetics (which you try to imply was merely deodorants, so whatever, I don't know) and cell phones are a ridiculous permission. The real point here is why should women be allowed it over men? Why can't the male rapists and murderers get their own perks? I can think of plenty of reasons as to why not.

What If I murder 10 people then demand as much chocolate cake as I can afford to be a "need" in prison? I'm not a woman? Well, I'm special me, I need this. I couldn't have it? Then nobody's getting a thing except the basics, and that's the way it should be. But it's not up to me, obviously.

Honestly, it's one thing in a thread that's 50 pages long, but this thread has all of five pages. Surely it would be possible for you to read what people have posted instead of just complaining about arguments no one has made. For example, it wouldn't be terribly tricky to go back two whole pages and read the very first sentence I posted in this thread before whining at me about how I support female prisoners getting special privileges.

But then, seeing as you're still talking about cell phones despite no one but you mentioning anything of the sort, I suppose it might be asking a lot of you to read before you rant.

Honestly, it's one thing in a thread that's 50 pages long, but this thread has all of five pages. Surely it would be possible for you to read what people have posted instead of just complaining about arguments no one has made. For example, it wouldn't be terribly tricky to go back two whole pages and read the very first sentence I posted in this thread before whining at me about how I support female prisoners getting special privileges.

But then, seeing as you're still talking about cell phones despite no one but you mentioning anything of the sort, I suppose it might be asking a lot of you to read before you rant.

I wasn't initially replying to any argument in the middle of the thread, hence why no one was quoted. I think your post is far more flawed than mine for entering a discussion assuming that I had. My initial comment was about the OP.

But we do agree that the circumstances in the actual story are ridiculous; that's all I was ever talking about.

Cosmetics are not a neccesity. If you are in jail, you are supposed to be punished. A criminal doesn't have the right to "look pretty" in jail. If a woman killed someone, what difference is mascara going to make? Make-up is a luxury. If an inmate had an irrational need for make-up, she'd just have to get over it. If an inmate has a skin condition that requires special moisturiser, for example, that is a medical concern rather than a cosmetic one.

I certainly wouldn't say there's a right to own cosmetics that cannot be violated.

However, if the prison is going to allow inmates to spend their money on personal items, I don't see why cosmetics in particular should not be allowed.

I certainly wouldn't say there's a right to own cosmetics that cannot be violated.

However, if the prison is going to allow inmates to spend their money on personal items, I don't see why cosmetics in particular should not be allowed.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed but they certainly shouldn't be given extra money because "women have an inherent need for cosmetics".