NationStates Jolt Archive

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/deadlineusa/2008/dec/03/obama-grandfather-maumau-torture)

Hussein Onyango Obama, the president-elect's paternal grandfather, had served with the British army in Burma during the second world war and later found work back in Kenya as a military cook.

Like many army veterans, he returned to Africa hoping to win greater freedoms. But his aspirations soon turned to resentment of the occupying British.

He became involved in the Mau Mau independence movement and was arrested as early as 1949, probably on charges of membership of a banned organisation.

During two years' detention he was subjected to horrific violence, according to the story's authors, Ben Macintyre and Paul Orengoh. Tortures inflicted on Kenyan prisoners sometimes involved such barbaric implements as "castration pliers".

"The African warders were instructed by the white soldiers to whip him every morning and evening till he confessed," Sarah Onyango, 87, tells the Times.

The behaviour of British soldiers is the subject of continuing legal action in the UK courts from victims seeking reparations for torture and mistreatment suffered more than 50 years ago. The Kenyan Human Rights Commission is still gathering evidence.

The alleged torture of Onyango reportedly left him permanently scarred and bitterly anti-British. Barack Obama's memoirs, the paper observes, show that he too is no admirer of British colonialism.

Obama's family connection to the Mau Mau was already known – some US commentators have even used the label to smear him as a "Mau Mau insurgent".

We still have a special relationship though eh? Past is the past and all that old chap, water under the bridge?

A question...

...amm..., umm..., how do you pronounce Kenya?

1. Keen-ya
2. Ken-ya

Answer on a postcard please with any thoughts you might have

Well...Answer Number Two, lol...


And, Im sure the US wouldn'tve been much friendlier too him at the time, so its kind of a Moot Point...

What's a little torture amongst friends?

Ok, who IS an admirer of British colonialism in this day and age?

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/deadlineusa/2008/dec/03/obama-grandfather-maumau-torture)



We still have a special relationship though eh? Past is the past and all that old chap, water under the bridge?
He joined the Maumau. They're like the Kenyan version of the Taliban for fuck's sakes.
A question...

...amm..., umm..., how do you pronounce Kenya?

1. Keen-ya
2. Ken-ya

Answer on a postcard please with any thoughts you might have
1) if you're rich and old enough to have lived there when it was still a part of the empire, 2) if you're a normal chap.

Ok, who IS an admirer of British colonialism in this day and age?

Aside from the general torture and repression, a couple of concentration camps here and there, wars based on opium addiction...

...what's your point?

Were they the Oompapa Mau Mau?

Ok, who IS an admirer of British colonialism in this day and age?

Yeah, this. I dont see why Obama being anti-British colonialism is proof of anything.


Sucks about his grandpa though.

Ok, who IS an admirer of British colonialism in this day and age?

Some US commentators who have used the label to smear him as a "Mau Mau insurgent".

I say "Ken-ya." That is, if I've ever said it aloud, which is doubtful.

Some US commentators who have used the label to smear him as a "Mau Mau insurgent".
Yeah I wouldn't hold it against Barack Obama, but the Mau Mau were a nasty piece of work to say the least.

Ok, who IS an admirer of British colonialism in this day and age?

To a point...Im a bit of an Anglophile though...

Yeah I wouldn't hold it against Barack Obama, but the Mau Mau were a nasty piece of work to say the least.

They were the result of something. That same thing resulted in Obama's grandfather loathing the British.

Something pretty irrelevant, seeing as Obama bears no resemblance whatsoever to Uryu Ishida. :p

The Mau-Mau Uprising did kill a lot of civilians and devastated significant portions of Kenya. I don't think anyone tied to that movement is entirely innocent considering the violent atrocities committed on both sides.

They were the result of something.
Aye, purest impatience.
That same thing resulted in Obama's grandfather loathing the British.
Aye well it's a damned shame that so many people had to get killed for something which would have been solved by giving it ten years until the British would have given in anyway.

The Mau-Mau Uprising did kill a lot of civilians and devastated significant portions of Kenya. I don't think anyone tied to that movement is entirely innocent considering the violent atrocities committed on both sides.

Hussein Onyango Obama tried to kill my daddy *nod*

Hussein Onyango Obama tried to kill my daddy *nod*

Who knows? He might've just been an insurgent or he might have been one of the ones involved in torturing and brutally killing innocent people for all we know. Just because's he's Obama's grandfather doesn't mean he's automatically innocent...

Most awkward position I've ever been in, some Kenyan kids asked me how I felt about British Imperialism and some of the really nasty things we did in Kenya, I tried to explain I didn't agree with them and that Britain was different now. Then he brought up Iraq. It made me sad :(

Who knows? He might've just been an insurgent or he might have been one of the ones involved in torturing and brutally killing innocent people for all we know. Just because's he's Obama's grandfather doesn't mean he's automatically innocent...

Does his innocence or guilt change whether or not he was tortured or whether or not such torture was wrong? His crimes or atrocities committed if any should speak for themselves as should those committed against him or anyone else.

He's one of many on both sides or no side at all who suffered at the hands of violent men. The fact that he's Obama's grandfather makes no more or less difference than if he was a violent man or not.

This is a bit bullshit to be honest. My great-grandad on my mother's side got gassed by the Germans in the First World War, but there's no way in Hell I'd hold anything against Germany. It's just a bit of reporting for shits and giggles, really.

Were they the Oompapa Mau Mau?

AHHH!! Now I have that song in my head you bastard!

I am happy I wasn't drinking anything or I would be cleaning my display!

:D

Both pronunciations are acceptable, although /ˈkiːnjə/ is the original according to the OED, and the one used by most Kenyans I've come accross.

AHHH!! Now I have that song in my head you bastard!

I am happy I wasn't drinking anything or I would be cleaning my display!

:D

Well go and replace it with this (http://deaddodo.org/ugugu/song_%22Feast_of_the_Mau_Mau%22_(Jalacy_J._Hawkins)#1969_Screamin.27_Jay_Hawkins_..:.._.22Feast_of_t he_Mau_Mau.22_Studio_recording) then. :)

There you have it:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/postcard.jpg

However, this will only endear Obama to the Irish...