NationStates Jolt Archive

Some of you know the latest Tory accusations. Besides being very hypocritical (since they themselves negotiated w/ BQ), dont u think it's also silly?

I love Canada but I also think Québec should be independent if they choose to do so (tho I'd rather have them stay). Does this make me a traitor now?

Id say no.....but, then again...We said that in 1860, lol......Quebec better think about this hard, lol...

Some of you know the latest Tory accusations. Besides being very hypocritical (since they themselves negotiated w/ BQ), dont u think it's also silly?

I love Canada but I also think Québec should be independent if they choose to do so (tho I'd rather have them stay). Does this make me a traitor now?

Yep your a traitor. :mad: Quebec *has* to stay in Canada - if we let Quebec go then What about BC, Alberta... Galiano island... and what about Greenland, that just should be ours. ...we could probably buy Iceland.

Force the peasoupeaters to stay and force anglos to speak french. That way no ones happy ... thats the way Canada should be.

Not as long as they pursue separation through legal means.

Uh, no.

It's treason to allow Harper to continue being PM however, he's just not the man for the job-- not that, perhaps, Dion is, but he's still better then Harper.

Also, Harper has cooperated with the Bloc before, so his point, however bullshity it is, is moot.

Yep your a traitor. :mad: Quebec *has* to stay in Canada - if we let Quebec go then What about BC, Alberta...
If letting one province go will cause other provinces to leave, let them go. If that's how easily Canada will fall apart, perhaps Canada isn't that meaningful to begin with. National boundaries are arguably arbitrary anyway.

What the hell is it with you notheners and "treason"? By all gods in the multiverse, we don't play the "treason" card a tenth as often as you do!

Canada is on of the many examples of the idiocy that results when borders are decided by foreign entities. Almost all of Africa comes to mind as well. As an Albertan libertarian I'd say we'd be much better off without the socialist influence of most of the rest of the country, in fact, culture aside Quebec seems much more integrated within the Canadian status quo.

I say, let whichever province which wishes to secede from Canada. More related to the spirit of the article, I can only guess that the voters are going to give the conservatives a majority next election, what with the liberals and ndp siding with a regionalist, secessionist part to form the federal government.

What the hell is it with you notheners and "treason"? By all gods in the multiverse, we don't play the "treason" card a tenth as often as you do!

That's because Hugo Chavez keeps hogging all the Treason cards.

What the hell is it with you notheners and "treason"? By all gods in the multiverse, we don't play the "treason" card a tenth as often as you do!

Its cool word, and it makes for great drama to get up and point saying "THAT SIR! is TREASON!" lol

Uh, no.

It's treason to allow Harper to continue being PM however, he's just not the man for the job-- not that, perhaps, Dion is, but he's still better then Harper.

Also, Harper has cooperated with the Bloc before, so his point, however bullshity it is, is moot.

No hes not Dions a retard. No offence ment at you, just Dion.

No.

Read s46 of the Canadian Criminal Code (full title is something else, but it's 1985 I think?)

What the hell is it with you notheners and "treason"? By all gods in the multiverse, we don't play the "treason" card a tenth as often as you do!
Maybe it's because they're all uncomfortable with how they feel towards their own country, so they've got to spread the accusation around a lot.

Shit knows I thought it used to be the sort of thing done only in war when someone was undoubtedly show to be helping the enemy side, but it appears to be bandied about a lot these days for basically no reason, especially by the more right-wing inclinded of people.

I love Canada but I also think Québec should be independent if they choose to do so (tho I'd rather have them stay). Does this make me a traitor now?

This is going to get very ugly, and very inflammatory (not the thread, the reality). Canadians feel very strongly about Quebec separatism...outside of Quebec, that strength of feeling is mostly against it. However, let us not forget that it was Harper who recently declared Quebec to be a nation within a nation. Is THAT treasonous?

I absolutely support self-determination...of the Quebecois, of aboriginal people and so on. Let's reinvent this nation if we need to...let's renegotiate Confederation if it's really not working for us. Why not? Why NOT have that continuous political dialogue? I welcome it.

Yep your a traitor. :mad: Quebec *has* to stay in Canada - if we let Quebec go then What about BC, Alberta... Galiano island... and what about Greenland, that just should be ours. ...we could probably buy Iceland.

Force the peasoupeaters to stay and force anglos to speak french. That way no ones happy ... thats the way Canada should be. Why does Quebec HAVE to stay in Canada? Is your only argument that other provinces might pull out as well? What exactly is problematic about that?

Also, what's with the Galiano island reference? It's a part of BC. The whole Greenland/Iceland thing is too stupid to address.



Not as long as they pursue separation through legal means. We have a constitutionally mandated process to pursue separation, which came out of the Succession Reference (http://csc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1998/1998rcs2-217/1998rcs2-217.html) (if you're interested). But this isn't about actual separation, this is about a silly threat that the coalition will lead to separation...which makes absolutely no sense. Was Harper's proposed coalition with the Bloc something that would have led to separation? No. This is politicking at it's worst...pandering to the fears of the ignorant.

Uh, no.

It's treason to allow Harper to continue being PM however, he's just not the man for the job-- not that, perhaps, Dion is, but he's still better then Harper.

Also, Harper has cooperated with the Bloc before, so his point, however bullshity it is, is moot.
Treason? Please people...this is a foolish word to be using.

Canada is on of the many examples of the idiocy that results when borders are decided by foreign entities. Almost all of Africa comes to mind as well. As an Albertan libertarian I'd say we'd be much better off without the socialist influence of most of the rest of the country, in fact, culture aside Quebec seems much more integrated within the Canadian status quo. You western separatists absolutely slay me. This, coming from someone who is from Alberta, btw.

Go ahead and separate, Alberta. Then watch the Métis Settlements and Métis historical communities (Lac Ste. Anne, Lac La Biche, Smoky Lake etc etc) Treaty Six, Treaty Seven and Treaty 8 up and separate on YOUR ass, taking you most valued resources with them. Watch the francophone communities within Alberta decide they want no part of you as well. Perhaps the Hutterite and Mennonites will agitate for self-determination?

Western alienation is hilarious.

I say, let whichever province which wishes to secede from Canada. More related to the spirit of the article, I can only guess that the voters are going to give the conservatives a majority next election, what with the liberals and ndp siding with a regionalist, secessionist part to form the federal government.
I agree...let's rethink Confederation, if it's really bothering us. As I've pointed out in other threads, Newfounland has bitterly resented being roped into Confederation in 1949, and has wanted out ever since...and now they've got oil and are making transfer payments instead of receiving them...if I were them, I'd gtfo while the going is good.

Harper is a fucking moron. All he had to do was work with the Libs and the NDPs, or the Bloc...whomever...to get those extra 11 votes he needed to make the government work. Minority goverments don't get to avoid compromise...they depend on it. He ran his goverment as though it were a majority and that is utterly foolish.

Conservative or Liberal, minority goverments have relied on the Bloc many, many times, and there were no fucking accusations of 'treason' then. It was simply a political reality.

If rednecked, inbred Prairie hicks want to buy into this new spin, so be it. This is one time I'm heartily glad that Ontario and Quebec essentially define Canadian politics.
No.

Read s46 of the Canadian Criminal Code (full title is something else, but it's 1985 I think?)No, that's right...we're fans of the short title movement here.

I think 'treason' in this sense is more of a term of art than an actual legally defined offence.

No, that's right...we're fans of the short title movement here.

Oh dear, such an Americanism. At least our short titles are pretty much constitutionally (via convention) mandated to make sense.

I think 'treason' in this sense is more of a term of art than an actual legally defined offence.

Screw loose terms, the least people can do is talk in legally defined specifics. With some judicial interpretation thrown in to provide at least a bit of debate.

I say, let whichever province which wishes to secede from Canada. More related to the spirit of the article, I can only guess that the voters are going to give the conservatives a majority next election, what with the liberals and ndp siding with a regionalist, secessionist part to form the federal government.

It's unlikely we're going to have an election. Although the PM can ask the Governor general to dissolve government, this soon after an election, she's likely to ask if anyone else holds the conference of the house, which of course would be Dion given this coalition the Liberals and NDPs and Bloc have formed.

Further more, no one is 'siding' with the Bloc, the Bloc is siding with the opposition, IE the Liberals.

Finally, I doubt that we're going to find ourselves with a Conservative majority, Harper is far too much hated, and so long as this coalition can hang onto the government long enough to go through a leadership race, the Liberals will be fine.

Oh dear, such an Americanism. At least our short titles are pretty much constitutionally (via convention) mandated to make sense.
No no no...'Americanism' is creating legislation with ridiculously long, pointlessly descriptive names....our short title movement is also a plain language movement.


Screw loose terms, the least people can do is talk in legally defined specifics. With some judicial interpretation thrown in to provide at least a bit of debate.
This is politics, not reality...you think Harper is going to engage in a debate about what is, and what is not, legally defined treason?

Canadian politics is absolutely adorable to watch. :)

Canadian politics is absolutely adorable to watch. :)
Especially since its implications for the world are so small :D

Go ahead and separate, Alberta. Then watch the Métis Settlements and Métis historical communities (Lac Ste. Anne, Lac La Biche, Smoky Lake etc etc) Treaty Six, Treaty Seven and Treaty 8 up and separate on YOUR ass, taking you most valued resources with them. Watch the francophone communities within Alberta decide they want no part of you as well. Perhaps the Hutterite and Mennonites will agitate for self-determination?


It's really no different in Quebec ether.

I agree...let's rethink Confederation, if it's really bothering us. As I've pointed out in other threads, Newfounland has bitterly resented being roped into Confederation in 1949, and has wanted out ever since...and now they've got oil and are making transfer payments instead of receiving them...if I were them, I'd gtfo while the going is good.
Nova Scotia is home to the original secession movement really :D we've all wanted to go at some point or another.

Nova Scotia is home to the original secession movement really :D we've all wanted to go at some point or another.
There's no doot aboot it.

Canadian politics is absolutely adorable to watch. :)

Especially since its implications for the world are so small :D
Don't make me violate you with a moose antler.
It's really no different in Quebec ether. Ayup.


Nova Scotia is home to the original secession movement really :D we've all wanted to go at some point or another.
Let it be, let it be...

Don't make me violate you with a moose antler.

:eek: I'm still sore from the last time!

No no no...'Americanism' is creating legislation with ridiculously long, pointlessly descriptive names....our short title movement is also a plain language movement.

Ah, thank the gods for that.


This is politics, not reality...you think Harper is going to engage in a debate about what is, and what is not, legally defined treason?

Well...I like to think I have a fairly good handle on politics (as in I can judge British politics to a tee, and from my general interest in politics I can have enough of a grasp of what's going on in other places) so, no, I don't expect him to do that all. I never even considered for a second he would do so. But I also love the law, especially constitutional and administrative, so I really wish he does.

Don't make me violate you with a moose antler
It'd be like being buttsexed by a lamppost :(

Canadian politics is absolutely adorable to watch. :)
Did you bring popcorn? :D

Did you bring popcorn? :D

Yep. And Raisinets. :)

Yep. And Raisinets. :)
mmmmmm raisinets :-)

Welcome to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest Part Deux

Is it time for Washington, Oregon, Northern California and Idaho to join with BC and Alberta to form the independent nation of Cascadia? I am of the opinion that the people have the right to form nations and redefine borders if they so choose, and government ought to mind its own business and stay away from where it isn't wanted.

Is it time for Washington, Oregon, Northern California and Idaho to join with BC and Alberta to form the independent nation of Cascadia? I am of the opinion that the people have the right to form nations and redefine borders if they so choose, and government ought to mind its own business and stay away from where it isn't wanted.

Bad idea. Alberta and British Columbia are conservative, while Washington, Oregon and California are liberal.

To be honest, with Quebec gone, so to would the Bloc, and that would make it that little bit easier for Canada to have perpetual Conservative rule.

I love these assumptions that people have that what people think of Harper actually means something. This isn't the US, how many of you Canadians have actually voted? Unless you're unfortunate enough to live in his riding, you don't vote for Harper. In our system the party gets elected through the seats its members take, and the members themselves are individuals who are voted for. You vote for the person running in your riding, not the person who will be PM. People won't change their vote based on party if they like the person in their riding regardless of party, this is why it's so hard to shift governments into majority settings, or why the Liberals were in so long. Most people who vote tend to follow this, especially those who vote fervently, they know it's not about the party Leader, it's about who you want to best represent you in parliament. So it's laughable to bring up the thoughts of Harper, we didn't vote him in, we voted the members of his party in, he just happens to be their leader. You want real change, encourage the Conservatives to replace him as party leader, they can do that easier then this country can directly vote for the PM.

As to whether or not this is treason. It isn't. Although it is an excuse to start saying bourgeoisie, which I am very happy to throw around in everyday conversation, it easily describes everyone involved in government except maybe the GG.

And finally, the BQ abandoned separation long ago. For a long time now they have been pushing for sovereignty, in the guise of being an autonomous element within Canada, like the Kurds in Iraq. They're not stupid, they know they would never survive as their own separate country having to create their own currency (Or get ability to use another's), fund healthcare, and all that. The problem with them is that they want to be unanimously recognized as a unique element in Canada, the only one. They fail to recognize that every area is unique. As one comedian put it: as every english-speaking Canadian knows, Saskatchewan is the exact same culture as Newfoundland. The sovereigntists in Quebec don't get that they're unique but so is everyone else. They need to get their heads out of their asses and smarten up, they just want attention. I really have no respect for their movement based solely on their own ignorance and idiotic claims they have made. Only Francophone population in Canada? Well, there's the Metis, they've been around just as long, and then there's the Acadians, who last I checked were here longer then any other permanent European settlement in Canada. And that ignores the regional Francophone communities all across Canada.

Of course, I always loved Cretian's slight at Quebec during an Acadian National Congress in NB, where he openly announced to the Quebec reporters in French "I am speaking to a Francophone population outside of Quebec."

The entire Canadian political system is full of traitors. hmm execute the lot of your ruling parties.
revive the Rhinoceros party and put them in charge.
If they cant be revived have the US annex Canada.

... the Métis Settlements and Métis historical communities (Lac Ste. Anne, Lac La Biche, Smoky Lake etc etc) Treaty Six, Treaty Seven and Treaty 8 up and separate on YOUR ass, taking you most valued resources with them. Watch the francophone communities within Alberta decide they want no part of you as well. Perhaps the Hutterite and Mennonites will agitate for self-determination?


Exact my point earlier. There are separatists everywhere ... if Quebec leaves then everyone will abandon ship. Personally I hate my government - I don't hate Canada. Besides do you really want more international boarders? I like being able to drive across the country without getting an anal probing every province.

And I'm from BC, do we really want Gordon Campbell to be the leader of a country? And what about our Army? The Americans already laugh at our army for being small - do you think anyone will be afraid of the British Columbian Army? Well at least we already have a Navy, the BC fairies :p The one plus side, we could make Weed the official currency - then money really would grow on trees!

Is it time for Washington, Oregon, Northern California and Idaho to join with BC and Alberta to form the independent nation of Cascadia? I am of the opinion that the people have the right to form nations and redefine borders if they so choose, and government ought to mind its own business and stay away from where it isn't wanted.

What and have to share our weed with you? Seriously I like Washington, Oregon & Northern California but you guys should separate from the states first and see how that goes. Considering what happened the last time a couple of states tried to secede I'd rather stay on the fence for a while.

No.

Read s46 of the Canadian Criminal Code (full title is something else, but it's 1985 I think?)

The long title is: An Act Respecting Criminal Law.

s.46 has 3 parts. None of those parts prohibit the support of peaceful separation. It speaks of violence or force s.46(2)(a), that is used to overthrow the government. The Bloc is a legal entity and is seeking to leave the federation through legal means. Supporting this would not lead to treason.

*holds up her Martin's Pocket Criminal Code 2009*

Some of you know the latest Tory accusations. Besides being very hypocritical (since they themselves negotiated w/ BQ), dont u think it's also silly?

I love Canada but I also think Québec should be independent if they choose to do so (tho I'd rather have them stay). Does this make me a traitor now?

No. You're not a traitor. But anyone who thinks sepperation is a good idea is an idiot.

Bad idea. Alberta and British Columbia are conservative, while Washington, Oregon and California are liberal.

Not quite... the BC interior is conservative, but the coast is about as left as it gets. California has big areas that are right leaning too. However, all that considered, what ties the whole region together, and where the left and right seem to meet is a strong connection to libertarian politics.

To be honest, with Quebec gone, so to would the Bloc, and that would make it that little bit easier for Canada to have perpetual Conservative rule.

That's not even funny.

Some of you know the latest Tory accusations. Besides being very hypocritical (since they themselves negotiated w/ BQ), dont u think it's also silly?

I love Canada but I also think Québec should be independent if they choose to do so (tho I'd rather have them stay). Does this make me a traitor now?

No NMG, this feeling does not make you a traitor. I would like to see the Basque Country be granted independence from both Spain and France. I love Spain, but I think the Basque have a right to be free from us and from the French.

No. You're not a traitor. But anyone who thinks sepperation is a good idea is an idiot.

Why is that those who considered separation are idiots? Have you considered the cultural and idiosincratic differences that there are between Quebec and the rest of Canada? For starters, language. What is so wrong about a region that seems to have all the right in the world, the very right to separate from a country that has no similarities to it?

Why is that those who considered separation are idiots? Have you considered the cultural and idiosincratic differences that there are between Quebec and the rest of Canada? For starters, language. What is so wrong about a region that seems to have all the right in the world, the very right to separate from a country that has no similarities to it?

I hope they choose to stay tho. Have you ever been to Montréal? It's one of the best cities ever...

This is the first time I've heard of the Bloc Quebecois or whatever it's called.

I hope they choose to stay tho. Have you ever been to Montréal? It's one of the best cities ever...

It is not. I've been there, and I still say San Diego is 100 times better.

It is not. I've been there, and I still say San Diego is 100 times better.

Isnt that in California where my basic human rights are restricted?

Anyway, you have to go to Montréal in summer.

I hope they choose to stay tho. Have you ever been to Montréal? It's one of the best cities ever...

I was in Canada last week, actually. But I only visited Toronto, Ontario and almost (but thankfully not) Vancouver. Unfortunately I didn't have the chance to visit Quebec.

Isnt that in California where my basic human rights are restricted?

Anyway, you have to go to Montréal in summer.

Yeah, you're right about the human rights thing. I can't carry a firearm in San Diego.

Other than that, none of my human rights are restricted.

I was in Canada last week, actually. But I only visited Toronto, Ontario and almost (but thankfully not) Vancouver. Unfortunately I didn't have the chance to visit Quebec.

If you do, do it in summer, it's very cold in winter, even for Canadian standards.

If you do, do it in summer, it's very cold in winter, even for Canadian standards.

Will do. I've heard good things about Canada, even if Canucks give me the hibbie-jibbies.:tongue:

Montreal is full of Muslims. Very multicultural.

On l'aime bien.

Yeah, you're right about the human rights thing. I can't carry a firearm in San Diego.

Other than that, none of my human rights are restricted.

Good for you.

Montreal is full of Muslims. Very multicultural.

On l'aime bien.

Vraiment? J'ai un problème avec le français québécois. Essayez de mai comme je l'ai, je ne le comprends pas ainsi que je devrais.:(

Will do. I've heard good things about Canada, even if Canucks give me the hibbie-jibbies.:tongue:

LOL, thats not good.

LOL, thats not good.

I know, right. I was there for 4 days or so and I was always on edge. Canadians are... just... I don't want to say odd because that's not the word I'm looking for, but they're just... strange in a way. I blame Southpark for this aprehension, plus having a bad impass with a Canuck sometime ago.:tongue:

Vraiment? J'ai un problème avec le français québécois. Essayez de mai comme je l'ai, je ne le comprends pas ainsi que je devrais.:(

The average montrealer can communicate in french and english. Not very well, sometimes but you can still have answers to your questions easilly.

If you do, do it in summer, it's very cold in winter, even for Canadian standards.

Montreal is not cold in winter by Canadian standards. If you want cold, try Saskatoon.

The average montrealer can communicate in french and english. Not very well, sometimes but you can still have answers to your questions easilly.

Well, I'll give it a try if and when I visit Montréal.

Montreal is not cold in winter by Canadian standards. If you want cold, try Saskatoon.

Well, it's colder than Maritimes, most parts of ON and BC.

Well, it's colder than Maritimes, most parts of ON and BC.

Ontario was indeed cold, but Madrid gets colder so it was no biggie. For some reason I found Toronto to be unbearably cold, but I think tha was due to the fact that I didn't wanted to be there.

I know, right. I was there for 4 days or so and I was always on edge. Canadians are... just... I don't want to say odd because that's not the word I'm looking for, but they're just... strange in a way. I blame Southpark for this aprehension, plus having a bad impass with a Canuck sometime ago.:tongue:

Hmm, a bad impass? :p

Well, it's colder than Maritimes, most parts of ON and BC.

Still, as far as Quebec goes, it's the warmest part of the province. It's usually the humidity that gets ya.

Hmm, a bad impass? :p

Yes, a very bad one. It changed my perspective towards Canadians. But that's slowly changing. You're not all evil, beady eyed, French speaking, U adoring people.:tongue:

Ontario was indeed cold, but Madrid gets colder so it was no biggie. For some reason I found Toronto to be unbearably cold, but I think tha was due to the fact that I didn't wanted to be there.

that, and Torontonians are cold as a people. Come to montreal, feel the latin blood, enjoy the friendliness. Also, our bars are open afer midnight...

that, and Torontonians are cold as a people. Come to montreal, feel the latin blood, enjoy the friendliness. Also, our bars are open afer midnight...

Gods, Canadian beer is sooooo good!:eek2:

Montreal is not cold in winter by Canadian standards. If you want cold, try Saskatoon.

its cold by the standards of the civilized world.

its cold by the standards of the civilized world.

What? Canada isn't civilized?

Montreal is not cold in winter by Canadian standards. If you want cold, try Saskatoon.

It's a wet cold as opposed to the dry cold of Toontown. So it creeps into your bones.

Yes, a very bad one. It changed my perspective towards Canadians. But that's slowly changing. You're not all evil, beady eyed, French speaking, U adoring people.:tongue:

U was good.

I am neither evil nor beady eyed.

Montreal has awesome microbreweries.

Yeah, you're right about the human rights thing. I can't carry a firearm in San Diego.

Other than that, none of my human rights are restricted.

Just because that's the only one you've noticed doesn't mean there isn't a more important one being restricted.

PS: No, Canada is not civilized. We're a frozen land of noble savages.

U was good.

I am neither evil nor beady eyed.

Montreal has awesome microbreweries.

I know that, Goggy-sama. I was trying to jest.:wink:

its cold by the standards of the civilized world.

Bah! The civilized world has become too soft, then.

It's a wet cold as opposed to the dry cold of Toontown. So it creeps into your bones.

Amen to that. And I have to work in this cold.

U was good.
Indeed.

I am neither evil nor beady eyed.
Evil is such a subjective word. :p

Montreal has awesome microbreweries.

Indeed

*le sigh* I'm so disappointed in Michaelle.

What? Canada isn't civilized?

no they are not. They are Canadians. The lowest most cold blooded form of life know to man.

no they are not. They are Canadians. The lowest most cold blooded form of life know to man.

On the other hand, we'll survive when hell freezes over AND the next ice age.

no they are not. They are Canadians. The lowest most cold blooded form of life know to man.

They surely didn't went Ooga Shacka Ooga Ooga when I saw them.:confused:

They surely didn't went Ooga Shacka Ooga Ooga when I saw them.:confused:

We will if you want us to.

We will if you want us to.

If it's in bed, yeah. If it's to meet me, heck no.:eek2:

If it's in bed, yeah.

:)
Our beer is truly excellent. Even a week after tasting it, it still lowers inhibition to such a degree as making women who never met me want to sleep with me.

If it's to meet me, heck no.:eek2:

Duly noted.

Vraiment? J'ai un problème avec le français québécois. Essayez de mai comme je l'ai, je ne le comprends pas ainsi que je devrais.:(

Le français québécois n'est pas trop difficile, il faut simplement s'habituer à l'accent et apprendre la vocabulaire qui est different. Moi, j'ecoute la musique québécoise souvent, et beaucoup des DVDs aux US ont l'audio en français québécois et ne pas le français standard.

As to the topic, no that's silly.

As for Québec, I've always had a minor fascination with them. I've always had a fascination with separatist movements, and am very much a francophile. Someday I'd like to spend some time there, and I'm including several universities in Québec in my search for a school to do my graduate studies in.

Le français québécois n'est pas trop difficile, il faut simplement s'habituer à l'accent et apprendre la vocabulaire qui est different. Moi, j'ecoute la musique québécoise souvent, et beaucoup des DVDs aux US ont l'audio en français québécois et ne pas le français standard.

Non, je sais que c'est sur tous les s'habituer à l'accent. Mais le québécois est très similaire à l'accent parisien, qui est aussi difficile pour moi de suivre, et c'est le français standard.

Je tarif moyen de mieux lorsque le français est du sud de la France ou les îles Vierges français.

They surely didn't went Ooga Shacka Ooga Ooga when I saw them.:confused:

worse yet some of them speak french.

worse yet some of them speak french.

but that's not the worst part... most of them speak *gasp* english. *shudders*

worse yet some of them speak french.

Mais ça ce n'est pas terrible. Je parle français.:wink:

I don't think it's wrong to negotiate with the BQ, particularly since the BQ doesn't pass legislation on separation, the provincial PQ does. The BQ will simply use their leverage to gain Quebec the best position it can get. In our electoral system, they're simply using that leverage to their best advanatage, and frankly, I'm beginning to think so-called 'national parties' are becoming a thing of the past.

I'm thinking re-negotiating confederation may be the best for all involved. We can keep many of the Canadian institutions and ideals we all cherish without a need for an overarching federal government. What Quebec wants, 'sovereignty association', would probably be good for every region of the country. Why should matters in one region be so heavily influenced by politics in another? We've shown that regionalisation is a problem in Canadian politics that isn't going to just disapear.

I would propose a Canadian Commonwealth, of Five nations, with the territories governed directly by the Commonwealth. (The five nations being British Columbia, Western Canada (consisting of Manitoba, Alberta and Saskatchewan), Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada (Obviously Newfoundland, and the maritime provinces.) Let each nation decide its own internal politics, but remain true to the principles and legalities of the Canadian Commonwealth; i.e. the constitutional protections, some gaurantee of universal healthcare, protection of First Nations rights (unless they would prefer to renegotiate within their respective nation), gaurantees on freedom of movement and trade within the commonwealth. End the notion of transfer payments, etc, and let each region decide its own destiny... with a shared currency, central bank and common history. Let the Canadian Flag fly beside each nations flag in their individual Parliaments, and let's be done with the age old problem of regionalism trumping federal politics.

Just a thought.

I can see the First Nations liking that.

Some of you know the latest Tory accusations. Besides being very hypocritical (since they themselves negotiated w/ BQ), dont u think it's also silly?

I love Canada but I also think Québec should be independent if they choose to do so (tho I'd rather have them stay). Does this make me a traitor now?

A few things to ask about Quebecois Separation:

1. Can they?
2. SHOULD they?

IIRC, there was actually a referendum over secession back in the eighties-and it failed. Presumably another referendum may succeed at a later date. Cooperating with the Bloc Quebecois doesn't strike me as being actively treasonous-anymore than, say, allowing the Alaska Independence Party to run candidates in Alaska's elections (and permitting the rare ones that win to actually take their seat). Bloc Quebecois isn't, after all, advocating violence, they want to (iirc) do it Legally.

None of this speaks either to the sense/intelligence of Quebec secession, nor to the sense/intelligence of letting Quebec make a try for it. However, it might be meet to note that the Canadian industrial base is largely located in the southern provinces, (Quebec included), and that the U.S. would likely have some irritation from having to alter or change border-crossing policies and write new treaties, because the new Country of Quebec has no trade agreements, no border agreements, and no extradition treaties by simple fact of being "No Longer Canada"...so the question of how self-sufficient Quebec is might be an issue to consider.

I love these assumptions that people have that what people think of Harper actually means something. This isn't the US, how many of you Canadians have actually voted? Unless you're unfortunate enough to live in his riding, you don't vote for Harper. In our system the party gets elected through the seats its members take, and the members themselves are individuals who are voted for. You vote for the person running in your riding, not the person who will be PM. People won't change their vote based on party if they like the person in their riding regardless of party, this is why it's so hard to shift governments into majority settings, or why the Liberals were in so long. Most people who vote tend to follow this, especially those who vote fervently, they know it's not about the party Leader, it's about who you want to best represent you in parliament. So it's laughable to bring up the thoughts of Harper, we didn't vote him in, we voted the members of his party in, he just happens to be their leader. You want real change, encourage the Conservatives to replace him as party leader, they can do that easier then this country can directly vote for the PM.

As to whether or not this is treason. It isn't. Although it is an excuse to start saying bourgeoisie, which I am very happy to throw around in everyday conversation, it easily describes everyone involved in government except maybe the GG.

And finally, the BQ abandoned separation long ago. For a long time now they have been pushing for sovereignty, in the guise of being an autonomous element within Canada, like the Kurds in Iraq. They're not stupid, they know they would never survive as their own separate country having to create their own currency (Or get ability to use another's), fund healthcare, and all that. The problem with them is that they want to be unanimously recognized as a unique element in Canada, the only one. They fail to recognize that every area is unique. As one comedian put it: as every english-speaking Canadian knows, Saskatchewan is the exact same culture as Newfoundland. The sovereigntists in Quebec don't get that they're unique but so is everyone else. They need to get their heads out of their asses and smarten up, they just want attention. I really have no respect for their movement based solely on their own ignorance and idiotic claims they have made. Only Francophone population in Canada? Well, there's the Metis, they've been around just as long, and then there's the Acadians, who last I checked were here longer then any other permanent European settlement in Canada. And that ignores the regional Francophone communities all across Canada.

Of course, I always loved Cretian's slight at Quebec during an Acadian National Congress in NB, where he openly announced to the Quebec reporters in French "I am speaking to a Francophone population outside of Quebec."

You know, when Quebec got it's little "nation within a nation" title, this is exactly what I thought. Sure, they're unique, but so is the REST of the country! It's an issue of national pride how diverse we are. If nothing else, it's one of the things that defines us as Canadians... kind of a double edged sword uniting and seperating us at the same time.

But anyway, not throwing a stab at the Bloc for this new coalition. I like it, actually. It's nice to see that some people are willing to cooperate, even if, in the end, it's all just a power grab.

You know, when Quebec got it's little "nation within a nation" title, this is exactly what I thought. Sure, they're unique, but so is the REST of the country! It's an issue of national pride how diverse we are. If nothing else, it's one of the things that defines us as Canadians... kind of a double edged sword uniting and seperating us at the same time.

But anyway, not throwing a stab at the Bloc for this new coalition. I like it, actually. It's nice to see that some people are willing to cooperate, even if, in the end, it's all just a power grab.

Cooperation is a funny thing- Here in the States (to y'alls south), we only have two major parties (Sad, isn't it?), but there's an old cliche about something called "Bipartisanship".

"Party A (The Right) and Party B (The Left) agree to compromise in order to rip off and otherwise harm Party C (The Voters and Taxpayers)."