NationStates Jolt Archive

Supposing you were the governor of California: how would you fix the discrepancies, in income and crime-rate, that separate blacks, whites, and other races?

Jail more white people.

One step would be to repeal Prop. 209 (http://vote96.sos.ca.gov/BP/209.htm).

(I'm unclear on why this topic is about California, other than you wanting to make an antithesis to the Prop. 8 threads)

Because it is only in California that the governor receives Superpowers and can solve all problems with a click of his heels.

Take off and nuke the entire site from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

:D

One step would be to repeal Prop. 209 (http://vote96.sos.ca.gov/BP/209.htm).

(I'm unclear on why this topic is about California, other than you wanting to make an antithesis to the Prop. 8 threads)

How is Prop 209 a bad thing? From what I've read, its something that needs to become nationwide...

How is Prop 209 a bad thing? From what I've read, its something that needs to become nationwide...

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061211/ocamp

But I'm not surprised that you oppose affirmative action.

I'd start by killing the wealthiest 1%, seizing their assets, and distributing their money among the surviving population. Then I'd probably go mad with power.

I'd start by killing the wealthiest 1%, seizing their assets, and distributing their money among the surviving population. Then I'd probably go mad with power.

It's fun, you'll like it. :)

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061211/ocamp

But I'm not surprised that you oppose affirmative action.

"The crisis at UCLA has sparked an angry outcry from alumni, community leaders and students. In May the African Student Union organized a walkout of about 300 students, who left their classes and marched to the chancellor's office to demand that something be done. According to Karume James, 21, a recent UCLA graduate, their message was simple: "Why are there no black people here?""

And the Chancellor responded "Because they all drop out, preferring protest over study."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061211/ocamp

But I'm not surprised that you oppose affirmative action.

The article never said why such a low amount of blacks enrolled. Did more apply for admission but weren't accepted because they didn't meet standards, were they accepted elsewhere, or maybe some of them didn't apply to any college at all?

The article never said why such a low amount of blacks enrolled. Did more apply for admission but weren't accepted because they didn't meet standards, were they accepted elsewhere, or maybe some of them didn't apply to any college at all?

They all decided, by pure coincidence, to attend Vo-Tech schools after Prop. 209 was passed or, as Maximus, suggests they all dropped out in protest. :rolleyes:

Regardless, what is your solution for the racial inequality mentioned in the OP?

EDIT: If you are truly interested in more info re the effects of Prop. 209, you may find such info here (http://www.law.berkeley.edu/centers/ewi/research_higherEdu.html).

But I'm not surprised that you oppose affirmative action. ...Is it an oxymoron to say that I oppose preferential treatment of minorities, just because they are minorities. But I support affirmative action? o_0;

...Is it an oxymoron to say that I oppose preferential treatment of minorities, just because they are minorities. But I support affirmative action? o_0;

Yes.

Yes.Actually, I don't think it is. (I was looking for a well reasoned response.)

I support affirmative action in the sense that it allows qualified applicants of disadvantaged race/ethnicity/gender entrance to predominately major-dominated categories. Like universities and career fields.

Note the word qualified, if you will.

Supposing you were the governor of California: how would you fix the discrepancies, in income and crime-rate, that separate blacks, whites, and other races?

Eliminate mandatory minimums for drug offenses, since they're disproportionately harsh on crack over powdered cocaine users (though I'm not sure the governor has this power). Reform welfare so that college credits count as work. Raise minimum wage and the poverty line. Reinstate HeadStart and broaded free lunch and breakfast programs. Spend some actual goddamn money on inner-city schools. Rent control on places that are being gentrified so that the current neighborhood isn't driven out. Vote for Barack Obama.

Well, at least one of those got done.

The article never said why such a low amount of blacks enrolled. Did more apply for admission but weren't accepted because they didn't meet standards, were they accepted elsewhere, or maybe some of them didn't apply to any college at all?

If you're a black kid from a bad neighborhood, college isn't even discussed most of the time as an option. At my high school (top ten in the state when I was there) we spent a month in AP Lit writing our application essays. In my ex's school (worst high school in Oakland, and that's saying something) recruiters didn't even set up booths. They gave them no information on how to apply, where to apply, how to pay, etc. When my ex asked his counselor about getting into an AP class because he was bored in regular English, his counselor asked him "how he knew about that."

Actually, I don't think it is. (I was looking for a well reasoned response.)

I support affirmative action in the sense that it allows qualified applicants of disadvantaged race/ethnicity/gender entrance to predominately major-dominated categories. Like universities and career fields.

Note the word qualified, if you will.

Ditto. Although the real action needs to take place in primary school, but that's another thing altogether.

I'd start by killing the wealthiest 1%, seizing their assets, and distributing their money among the surviving population. Then I'd probably go mad with power.

http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/15566000/ngbbs47bfb24a8891b.jpg

LOL :)

My cardboard nukes pwn all!

If you're a black kid from a bad neighborhood, college isn't even discussed most of the time as an option. At my high school (top ten in the state when I was there) we spent a month in AP Lit writing our application essays. In my ex's school (worst high school in Oakland, and that's saying something) recruiters didn't even set up booths. They gave them no information on how to apply, where to apply, how to pay, etc. When my ex asked his counselor about getting into an AP class because he was bored in regular English, his counselor asked him "how he knew about that."

Well that is what needs to be addressed the problem with the schools, none of this crap how people are discriminated against because of their skin colour. This schooling thing may be a reason why there weren't as many African American students at UCLA.

Well that is what needs to be addressed the problem with the schools, none of this crap how people are discriminated against because of their skin colour. This schooling thing may be a reason why there weren't as many African American students at UCLA.

This post would be funny if you werent serious. The issue is far more complicated than schools being under funded, but that is a big reason. There are also many reasons many schools, especially those in inner cities are underfunded, some of it having to do with race.

But for starters, look up "cycle of poverty".

Why in one State? Why California specifically?

Why in one State? Why California specifically?

I guess in Cali the governor has what amounts to near supreme power so its easier for him to get things done.

I guess in Cali the governor has what amounts to near supreme power so its easier for him to get things done.

I guess.

I guess.

No, seriously, he does. That was a real answer on my part:p

No, seriously, he does. That was a real answer on my part:p

And I was agreeing. However I'm about as sick of California as I am of Iraq so...

And I was agreeing. However I'm about as sick of California as I am of Iraq so...

Oh ok.

Oh ok.

Yeah, and the next person who IMs me about the Timetable in Iraq is going to find themselves crying...

Yeah, and the next person who IMs me about the Timetable in Iraq is going to find themselves crying...
um

this isnt an IM but

HUH? people IM you about a timetable for iraq?

um

this isnt an IM but

HUH? people IM you about a timetable for iraq?

The one for the withdrawal. I suddenly seem to know a lot of people who specifically seem to hate me for it. *shrugs*

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

The one for the withdrawal. I suddenly seem to know a lot of people who specifically seem to hate me for it. *shrugs*

*ignoring edit*...They hate you for something that you have only the most...tenuous connection to? o_0;

And I was agreeing. However I'm about as sick of California as I am of Iraq so...

Yeah, well we don't like wherever you're from, either. :p

The one for the withdrawal. I suddenly seem to know a lot of people who specifically seem to hate me for it. *shrugs*

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
you bastard! i wanted to stay there forever.

Well that is what needs to be addressed the problem with the schools, none of this crap how people are discriminated against because of their skin colour. This schooling thing may be a reason why there weren't as many African American students at UCLA.

If you'd read my post directly above the one you quoted, you'd see that there is far, far more to the issue.

My ex has also had to go get a social security card to prove he could legally work in the U.S. (he's mostly black, but also mexican, native and irish, so he falls in the sort "ethnically ambiguous brown" category). He and five other coworkers, all minorities, were asked to do this, despite being natural-born citizens.

He's also been "randomly selected" for searches at airports three or four times. Strangely, I (a white middle-class woman) have never been randomly selected.

I could go on, but if you don't get that it's about more than fixing schools, there's no point.

Yeah, well we don't like wherever you're from, either. :p

I'm just saying I am sick of hearing about California on NS. Some of the bestest best people I know live in Cali.

For the record, I'm not to fond of Pennsylvania myself :)

Supposing you were the governor of California: how would you fix the discrepancies, in income and crime-rate, that separate blacks, whites, and other races?
Why would you want to? I'm not racist...let me start over.

Why should the color of a persons skin play any role in anything other than how long they can stay in the sun without getting a tan/burned (gingers fry like eggs real easy, burn 'em to a cinder with a magnifying glass). Why should police arrest or let people off the hook based on racial quotas? Isn't preferential treatment just as bad as discrimination?

And how would you "fix" discrepencies between different income earners? Would you just take from those that worked their asses off to have the good life and give to the unmotivated idiot slob still working a hotdog stand at thirty-something? How is that fair? Isn't that theft?

If you'd read my post directly above the one you quoted, you'd see that there is far, far more to the issue.

My ex has also had to go get a social security card to prove he could legally work in the U.S. (he's mostly black, but also mexican, native and irish, so he falls in the sort "ethnically ambiguous brown" category). He and five other coworkers, all minorities, were asked to do this, despite being natural-born citizens.

He's also been "randomly selected" for searches at airports three or four times. Strangely, I (a white middle-class woman) have never been randomly selected.

I could go on, but if you don't get that it's about more than fixing schools, there's no point.
legally your supposed to present your social security card and drivers license to every employer. I am white and middle class and had to do this.
I also got randomly searched at the airport when i was in the army and I was in my Dress uniform. at least in part they truly randomly select people.if some of its pilot/security staffs gut feeling so be it

Why would you want to? I'm not racist...let me start over.

Why should the color of a persons skin play any role in anything other than how long they can stay in the sun without getting a tan/burned (gingers fry like eggs real easy, burn 'em to a cinder with a magnifying glass). Why should police arrest or let people off the hook based on racial quotas? Isn't preferential treatment just as bad as discrimination?

And how would you "fix" discrepencies between different income earners? Would you just take from those that worked their asses off to have the good life and give to the unmotivated idiot slob still working a hotdog stand at thirty-something? How is that fair? Isn't that theft?

As far as police, I'm not asking for preferential treatment, I'm asking for an end to discrimination.

It is a fact that a disproportionate number of black men are incarcerated relative to their population, that black and Latino workers earn less on the dollar than their white and Asian colleagues, and that a disproportionate number of blacks live in poverty.

If you believe that this is not due to discrimination, then it stands to reason that you believe there are fundamental differences between people of different races. Is that what you're arguing?

I honestly dont know....

In MS, we're all about equally dirt poor, with the exception of a very few older white gentlemen, the majority of whites, blacks, etc. are all about at the bottom percentile...So i wouldnt recommend our methods...

legally your supposed to present your social security card and drivers license to every employer. I am white and middle class and had to do this.
I also got randomly searched at the airport when i was in the army and I was in my Dress uniform. at least in part they truly randomly select people.if some of its pilot/security staffs gut feeling so be it

And I got a speeding ticket once. Everyone's experience is different, mileage may vary, etc etc.

I don't even have a social security card. No one I know has a social security card. I have been asked many times to give my SSN; I have never, ever been asked to show a card. Maybe this is standard op somewhere, but not where I live at all.

As far as police, I'm not asking for preferential treatment, I'm asking for an end to discrimination.

It is a fact that a disproportionate number of black men are incarcerated relative to their population, that black and Latino workers earn less on the dollar than their white and Asian colleagues, and that a disproportionate number of blacks live in poverty.

If you believe that this is not due to discrimination, then it stands to reason that you believe there are fundamental differences between people of different races. Is that what you're arguing?

the argument that shuts down this BS right quick. The challenge of "either you believe that our society is fundamentally discriminated against, or you're a racist". Of course they stammer about it, claiming that neither are they racist, nor is our society fundamentally favoring some people over others.

When, of course, you point out what you just did, you must believe one of two things. Either prejudice still exists, or you believe that there's something wrong with blacks and latinos.

Guess what believing the later makes you...

And I got a speeding ticket once. Everyone's experience is different, mileage may vary, etc etc.

I don't even have a social security card. No one I know has a social security card. I have been asked many times to give my SSN; I have never, ever been asked to show a card. Maybe this is standard op somewhere, but not where I live at all.

correct, for most jobs, you basically need two things:

1) to prove you are who you say you are

2) to prove that you are eligible to work in the US.

Now sometimes it's a "pick one from column A and one from column B". One piece of identification to prove you are who you say you are (some form of official ID like a drivers license) and the other to prove you're eligible to work (like a social security card).

There is NO legal obligation to show "a drivers license and social security card" to each employer. You must legally prove your identity, and demonstrate permission to work in the US. A drivers license and social security card is ONE way of doing that, however, there are several other things that do as well, the most obvious being a US passport, which is also perfectly acceptable.

And I got a speeding ticket once. Everyone's experience is different, mileage may vary, etc etc.

I don't even have a social security card. No one I know has a social security card. I have been asked many times to give my SSN; I have never, ever been asked to show a card. Maybe this is standard op somewhere, but not where I live at all.

then your employer is not obeying the law.
http://services.pepperdine.edu/hr/development/neo/proof.htm

then your employer is not obeying the law.
http://services.pepperdine.edu/hr/development/neo/proof.htm

Did you read your own damned link?

When beginning work, new employees must produce, on their first day, EITHER:

* one document from List A OR
* two documents: one EACH from List B and List C


A drivers license falls in list "B", a social security card in list "C". While you CAN demonstrate proof of work by producing a drivers license (one from list B) AND a social security card (list C), you can do that with a number of other permutations, including: a US military card (list B) and birth certificate (list C) or a voters registration card and Form I-179, or school ID and native american tribal document.

OR just any one document from list A. The most obvious one being a US passport or green card.

yes, a drivers license and social security card is one way of proving identification and right to work in the united states, but not the only. A simple passport, by itself, accomplishes both nicely.

Seriously, read your own fucking link.

Did you read your own damned link?



A drivers license falls in list "B", a social security card in list "C". While you CAN demonstrate proof of work by producing a drivers license (one from list B) AND a social security card (list C), you can do that with a number of other permutations, including: a US military card (list B) and birth certificate (list C) or a voters registration card and Form I-179, or school ID and native american tribal document.

OR just any one document from list A. The most obvious one being a US passport or green card.

yes, a drivers license and social security card is one way of proving identification and right to work in the united states, but not the only. A simple passport, by itself, accomplishes both nicely.

Seriously, read your own fucking link.
to nitpick yes.

but 90% of the time its drivers license and SSN card. Passport coming in second but half the time my employers have been too nervous to use that.

to nitpick yes.

but 90% of the time its drivers license and SSN card. Passport coming in second but half the time my employers have been too nervous to use that.

then your employer is disobeying the law, not hers. A US passport is a valid legal identification and must be accepted as valid legal proof.

to nitpick yes.

but 90% of the time its drivers license and SSN card. Passport coming in second but half the time my employers have been too nervous to use that.

Ive always had to have both, In fact they make copies of them and keep them on file...Everytime...except this current job, i didnt need anything, but I only have it cause i know the boss's son and he couldnt take it cause of National Guard Drill Weekends...

Jail more white people.

I like it. Alternatively, Governate inequality. I'm not entirely sure what that entails, except that there's some sort of epic fight scene that ends with an explosion.

Ive always had to have both, In fact they make copies of them and keep them on file...Everytime...except this current job, i didnt need anything, but I only have it cause i know the boss's son and he couldnt take it cause of National Guard Drill Weekends...

maybe they dont need it on file persay. just it is a lot easier if the government wants proof of their right to work to show the files then to call each employee in to show their cards. Heaven forbid one cant find his social security card.
I remember when that happened to Snachez. they deported him to Mexico and he doesn't even speak Spanish. His wife found his social security card 3 months later and I mailed it to him though someone in the Mexican post office stole it. I guess i shouldn't have labeled the envelop contents 1 social security card. though on the bright side we hired this new guy also named Sanchez and even though he doesn't know much English he works really hard.

Although I think racial discrimination is still a problem, I think it can be very difficult teasing out those due tot racism compared to those due to social inequalities/class. I'd be interested to see whether a white male born and raised in the same poor neighbourhoods has similar or better (or indeed worse) outcomes than a black male raised in the same neighbourhood. If they are the same, then clearly the primary issue that needs to be tackled is poverty and the resultant issues.

Social inequality is a very complex issue with numerous causal factors of which racial discrimination is but a part. Solving it will never just be as simple as bringing in affirmative action. As Ryadn indicated it requires multiple solutions, including neighbourhood rejuvination, better education, better support networks, early intervention, among others. Trouble is, this all takes a lot of money and a lot of effort. The infrastructures need to be set up to support it, effort needs to be taken to implement effective reforms that actually work and don't just tick boxes. And the real results and benefits probably won't be seen for a number of years if not an entire generation.

If you're a black kid from a bad neighborhood, college isn't even discussed most of the time as an option. At my high school (top ten in the state when I was there) we spent a month in AP Lit writing our application essays. In my ex's school (worst high school in Oakland, and that's saying something) recruiters didn't even set up booths. They gave them no information on how to apply, where to apply, how to pay, etc. When my ex asked his counselor about getting into an AP class because he was bored in regular English, his counselor asked him "how he knew about that."

I'm Canadian so I don't really know how bad schools in Oakland are but I know that no-one held my hand and helped me with my University Applications. We do have AP classes in Canada but I never took them... I had to do a lot of research and preparation all by my self - and all the while I was working at McDonalds. Now I'm done my BA and I'm working on an MA in Germany but there was no one who just layed it all out for me and said here is what you do...

In the states you have two problems. Some people are helping the rich white kids too much ... so much so that they don't even have to show any initiative at all and the the black inner city kids why 'Hey why didn't we get all that help?' Things should be more equal but ... I a part of the problem is of inequality is that there is too much help going to a few people. Make the rich white kids jump through the same hoops and I think it'll level the plying field just a little.

The root cause is poverty, not race. A disproportionate number of latinos and blacks are poor.

I am not in favor of race based affirmative action. I am in favor of a similar system based on socio-economic factors.

As to things beyond this that could help, it's really not something I'm an expert in or anything.

If you're a black kid from a bad neighborhood, college isn't even discussed most of the time as an option. At my high school (top ten in the state when I was there) we spent a month in AP Lit writing our application essays. In my ex's school (worst high school in Oakland, and that's saying something) recruiters didn't even set up booths. They gave them no information on how to apply, where to apply, how to pay, etc. When my ex asked his counselor about getting into an AP class because he was bored in regular English, his counselor asked him "how he knew about that."

"worst high school in Oakland,"

Are you referring to Mac or Castlemont?

http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/15566000/ngbbs47bfb24a8891b.jpg

LOL :)

My cardboard nukes pwn all!
Commusnist? What the Hell is that?

I'd start by killing the wealthiest 1%, seizing their assets, and distributing their money among the surviving population. Then I'd probably go mad with power.

Just repeat this process until everyone is equal.
Given the population of California, you'll need about 1333 iterations to accomplish this.
Of course, the mission would have to read: killing the wealthiest at least 1%...

Just repeat this process until everyone is equal.
Or everyone is dead, but that's what the "mad with power" part is for.

Or everyone is dead, but that's what the "mad with power" part is for.

No, with 1333 iterations, you should be left with exactly 1 inhabitant, which pretty much guarantees equality, except if this one person happens to have MPD, of course.:tongue:

One step would be to repeal Prop. 209 (http://vote96.sos.ca.gov/BP/209.htm).

Could the governor do that?

(I'm unclear on why this topic is about California, other than you wanting to make an antithesis to the Prop. 8 threads)

I cannot think of a better state to be governor of; can you?

I would support affirmative action, but some recent empirical studies have shown that at the very least, such policies have no substantial effect on poor minority classes, and at the very worst, harm them.

I cannot think of a better state to be governor of; can you?

Probably any of them. California's government is so schizophrenic and dysfunctional it's a wonder they get anything accomplished.

I cannot think of a better state to be governor of; can you?

California has one of the weakest governorships in the country.
The old south has much stronger governorships.

If you believe that this is not due to discrimination, then it stands to reason that you believe there are fundamental differences between people of different races. Is that what you're arguing?

Indri is obviously ignorant, but I have to say that while I do not believe one's actions are determined by one's race, I also do not believe racism is entirely the problem. The discrepancy was certainly started by racism, but I think what is holding it there now is a "rut": a child grows-up in poverty, sees only criminals succeeding, and is discouraged from getting an education; that child will probably not amount to much. So besides ending racism, we need to create a comprehensive program that teaches poor children all the options they have in life, and we need to stress successful members of their races to serve as proper role-models.

Take off and nuke the entire site from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

:D

That's my line, dammit.

Why are people so eager to believe that the only minority indivduals who would benefit from affirmative action are ones who are unqualified for whatever they're pursuing?

The whole point of affirmative action and other anti-racism initiatives is *precisely* that qualified minorities are overlooked simply because they are minorities.

The burden of proof is on racists to show that people who benefit from affirmative action are not qualified to benefit. I have seen no such proof offered. At most a racist might try to argue that a black person who gets into a California university had lower SAT scores than the best-qualified whites who get in. Big deal, so do most of the other whites who get into that school.

It is worth noting that the affirmative action program that was shut down at the University of Michigan not only helped African-Americans and other people of color but also white people from the Appalachian region. We tend to forget, here in the 21st-century United States, that once upon a time a person was not considered "white" just because they were melanin-deficient and of European extraction. Whiteness was a cultural badge conferred by the culturally and socially privileged, not an immutable biological fact. The Irish, for instance, were treated little better than African slaves when they first came to the U.S. Now they count as "white."

Now that there are very few light-skinned groups left who could feasibly count as "white," the whites are closing their ranks. (I can say this; I'm white. But I wouldn't have counted as such a couple of generations ago; I have Native American ancestry and I'm not blond.) And of course because American history and American culture and even the American nightly news are all told from the white perspective, we unconsciously (most of the time--sometimes it's deliberate) believe that white is the default for everything, and that if some group is being maligned it must be because they are not white enough.

Unfortunately some people of color have also internalized this message, which is why you hear them slinging accusations at one another of "acting too white."

But it's all nonsense.

I don't know how to fix this, either. I would like to see 209 repealed, but I don't live in California. I can only hope we never pass such a law in Ohio (assuming we haven't already--it only now occurred to me to wonder, guess my whiteness is showing). Reflexively I think we should find some way to make it illegal to pass down judicial sentencing that is obviously racially biased, such as the sentencing disparity for possession or sale of equal amounts of crack vs. powder cocaine. But I don't know how to make that a reality; there are a million ways to do an end run around such a law, and the racists in our judicial system are well aware of that.

Sorry I don't have easy answers. Also for being long-winded.

No, with 1333 iterations, you should be left with exactly 1 inhabitant, which pretty much guarantees equality, except if this one person happens to have MPD, of course.:tongue:
That one person would be me, presumably.

As far as police, I'm not asking for preferential treatment, I'm asking for an end to discrimination.
And preferential treatment based on race will end racial discrimination how? Isn't that racism?

It is a fact that a disproportionate number of black men are incarcerated relative to their population, that black and Latino workers earn less on the dollar than their white and Asian colleagues, and that a disproportionate number of blacks live in poverty.
Police are supposed to arrest people based on their actions, not some race quota. Smaller populations will exagerate trends.

If you believe that this is not due to discrimination, then it stands to reason that you believe there are fundamental differences between people of different races. Is that what you're arguing?
I believe that attitude may be a part of the problem and that you can't stop racist people from doing racist things with racists laws.

to nitpick yes.

but 90% of the time its drivers license and SSN card. Passport coming in second but half the time my employers have been too nervous to use that.

The reason you've found that "90%" of the time they want a driver's license and SSN card over a passport is because of the oft-referred statistic that 80% of Americans don't have a valid passport. Virtually all employers would prefer a passport, for simpllcity's sake, it's just that often times, a valid passport is not possible.

Why are people so eager to believe that the only minority indivduals who would benefit from affirmative action are ones who are unqualified for whatever they're pursuing?

Because for many people, deluding themselves to believe that is the only way they can justify their opposition to affirmative action.

to nitpick yes.

but 90% of the time its drivers license and SSN card. Passport coming in second but half the time my employers have been too nervous to use that.

As I said, that may be standard where you live, but it is certainly not "90% of the time" here.

I'm Canadian so I don't really know how bad schools in Oakland are but I know that no-one held my hand and helped me with my University Applications. We do have AP classes in Canada but I never took them... I had to do a lot of research and preparation all by my self - and all the while I was working at McDonalds. Now I'm done my BA and I'm working on an MA in Germany but there was no one who just layed it all out for me and said here is what you do...

I'm not talking about hand-holding, I'm saying no one told these kids that college was even an option for them, and some actively discouraged them. The school I went to did hold our hands. So clearly, in my particular case, race and SEC were defining factors.

"worst high school in Oakland,"

Are you referring to Mac or Castlemont?

Even better proof of how bad Oakland schools are!

Actually, I meant Oakland Senior, but this was ten years ago... I think Mac might have it beat now.

California has one of the weakest governorships in the country.
The old south has much stronger governorships.

Luckily our citizens have stronger minds.

And preferential treatment based on race will end racial discrimination how? Isn't that racism?

Way to not read. I said I DID NOT SUPPORT PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT. That means do NOT arrest more white people for nothing, do NOT let more minorities off the hook for violations of the law. What it means is that police need to stop actively patrolling for minorities, stop treating crack and powdered cocaine as if there was any difference between how illegal they each are, and stop locking up 1/3 of young black men while young white men doing the same stupid shit get a slap on the wrist.

Police are supposed to arrest people based on their actions, not some race quota. Smaller populations will exagerate trends.

Yes, they are. However, they don't always do that. And "smaller populations will exaggerate trends"? There aren't four black people in the country. Not even the state. They are a SIZEABLE minority, but they suffer from a disproportionate level of incarceration.

I believe that attitude may be a part of the problem and that you can't stop racist people from doing racist things with racists laws.

No, but you can stop racist people from doing racist things by enforcing fair laws. Or did you think the Civil Rights Act said "and black people shall get a free pass"?

the foundation of california's inequities is its worship of the automoble, the excessive influence of the oil industry, the tendency of local politicians to side with "developers" againt indiginous and environmental intrests.

and there is historical precident that is contributory to those problems too.

i mean there's only so much an elected official can do in the face of cultural attatchments. one can try and set an example of being above them, of not pandering to the dark side of what prevailing culture promotes and the perpetuation of it.

there are of course many aspects to this. the prejudice of prevailing culture against outsiders which that prevailing culture itself so ironically fails to acknowledge itself being.

there's a whole lot of collective emotional problems of society.

yes, believe it or not, it is so called 'liberal' california i'm talking about, where there are undoubtedly other places in the same country that has them worse. but the thing is, i think california tends to break its own arm patting itself on the back over how much more 'liberal' then the rest of the nation and the world it claims and pretends to be.

when people consider it acceptable to kill other people half way around the world, not all that much unlike themselves, so that idiots in cities can drive cars, i think there is something fundimentally wrong with this as a way of life. even without promoting this mentality and supporting a national policy of forcing down the throats of people in other countries, who might have, for decades if not centuries, already known better.

what would i want to do? first of all to support not just high speed rail, but local nonautomotive dependent transport. the education system need to be restored to its position of priority. another consideration is to discourage the encroachment of housing construction on agricultural land.

there are, as mentioned, a whole range of individual issues, but i think the really big one, is to avoid encouraging by example the kind of economic fanatacism we've become so familar with as to take for granted and even imagine it the norm that it is not.

degregulating industry does not create personal freedom, if anything very nearly the opposite. relaxing, on the other hand, such things as building codes in rural areas does.

opportunities for everyone, without having to be in top income brackets, to live in ways they can personally believe in, is in everyone's intrest, and is the only real, long term answer to homelessness.

Ryadn, I admit that my knowledge in this matter is somewhat lacking, mostly because this law only applies to Californ-eye-a and I would only go there to hijack a harbor and hold it for ransom in China but according to the CA SoS the purpose of Prop 209 is:
Prohibits the state, local governments, districts, public universities, colleges, and schools, and other government instrumentalities from discriminating against or giving preferential treatment to any individual or group in public employment, public education, or public contracting on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin.
Does not prohibit reasonably necessary, bona fide qualifications based on sex and actions necessary for receipt of federal funds.
Mandates enforcement to extent permitted by federal law.
Requires uniform remedies for violations. Provides for severability of provisions if invalid.


All of that, to me, says that making decisions based on race is a no-no and at least attempts to address both preferential treatment and discrimination.

Also, I wasn't given a free pass during any of my brushes with the law. They called me a terrorist over a tasteless joke and when I mock the police they ticket me for it and then threaten me if I challenge it (well, to be fair only the Minneapolis cops do that). But then I do have some black ancestry so maybe you're right, maybe the man is just out to get me.