NationStates Jolt Archive

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?

no it wont.

the big super fundamentalist churches are on their way out. the children of fundies want a more personal faith than that which is found in a mega church.

The fundamentalists were never really that large of a threat. They were noisy, and they were good at getting out just enough votes to swing it one way or another in a time when the economy was fine, but broader uncertainty was more common. It gave an easy, moral out, when people were uncertain about the moral issues at hand.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?
Oh please.
The fundamentalists might want you to think it will, but the resounding loss of the Republican candidate tells me they're no where near as powerful as they fantasized.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?

Not until you're out of college probably. We've got four, probably eight years of Obama to look forward too here. Enjoy them.:)

Stop fearing and go on with your plans to study there. The US isn't anywhere near becoming a fundamentalist country anymore than Cuba is about to become a democracy, if you know what I'm getting at.

The US is unlikely to get more fundamentalist anytime immediately soon. The numbers of the militantly fundamentalist and extreme (which are the ones you have to worry about - merely being 'fundamentalist' isn't a sin) aren't likely to drop any time soon, nor are they likely to rise noticably, because you're dealing with a fairly static demographic that can almost be defined by resistance to change.

There will always be 'fundamentalist' stuff going on - like the Catholic priest sending out 17000 letters to people in his parish, that informed them that a vote for Obama was a mortal sin - but the 'mystery cult' mentality of fundamental Christianity doesn't appeal to that large a portion of the population.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?

No not likely at all.
the fundies are at best 1/3 of the republican party.
The republicans may tolerate them for a bit, but if they were to hold power for over say a decade the fundies would become disillusioned and begin migrating to the democratic party.

the minority voting blocks would then shift back to the republican party.
the republicans would then become more libertarian like.
And the democratic would become more religious in seeking government benefits to the poor. (pretty much what existed prior to prohibition).

then the fundies would be back in a minority party.

Americans are too smart to form a fundamentalist government.

Americans are too smart to form a fundamentalist government.

*insert impressed smilie here*

Americans are too smart to form a fundamentalist government.

i wouldn't say that. more like fudnies are too dumb to stay in the majority party and slowly effect change.

Stop fearing and go on with your plans to study there. The US isn't anywhere near becoming a fundamentalist country anymore than Cuba is about to become a democracy, if you know what I'm getting at.

*Whiny, Andaras-like rant on how Cuba is a democracy, but the information is kept out by the bourgeois scum and all that*

i wouldn't say that. more like fudnies are too dumb to stay in the majority party and slowly effect change.

They're too aggressive a revisionist. Not only that, while they can be a potent interest group, their internal divisions are too stark on so many issues to keep unity and cohesion for long.

They're nowhere near being able to establish their own private Kingdom of Gilead.

On the other hand, they do get in their shots now and then, such as with Proposition 8.

Not an overwhelming threat to freedom and civil liberties, but not something you can dismiss with laughter either.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?

In short: Not really, no.

but going to college in a fundamentalist state would be like super easy!

if you know what I'm getting at.

studying at a Cuban college does sound awesome :)

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?

Did you sleep through the last election?

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?

It's just you.

Seriously dude stop listening to the nut jobs of the left who are going around spouting this shit and realise that they are overreacting and spreading fear for those who already have some doubt. It isn't going to happen so decide where to study based on more important and plausible issues.

studying at a Cuban college does sound awesome :)

I know that their film academy is one of the best in Latin America.:)

How much fundamentalist lunacy you are likely to encounter depends very much on which state among the 50 you go to: but even in very red states, the college towns tend to much better than the backwoods.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?

"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain."

Seriously, your fear is unfounded, especially given Obama's victory.

No chance. Truth is, the vast majority of Americans simply don't support any kind of fundamentalism, and their latent patriotism would probably quash any real attempt at imposing such a government very quickly.

Like the Combine, the American people are slow to awake but once they're up they can't be stopped.

Stop fearing and go on with your plans to study there. The US isn't anywhere near becoming a fundamentalist country anymore than Cuba is about to become a democracy, if you know what I'm getting at.
Raúl Castro is the Anti-Christ?

no it wont.

the big super fundamentalist churches are on their way out. the children of fundies want a more personal faith than that which is found in a mega church.

*nods*

I find this (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/rlparchive/preachersstory)to be more spiritually guiding than anything I've heard from the Falwellian crowd.

No, but you should move to Canada anyway cause we're cooler, also we have punch and pie.

Can you really blame for being paranoid about fundamentalists? What with the "The Walmart Incident" (http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/wal-mart-worker-trampled-to-death/262342?icid=200100397x1213689134x1200929272) (for lack of a better word) and the topic on Homeland Security and God (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=574544), it seems to me that the fundamentalists could easily take over. After all, while Americans aren't exactly trusting of fundamentalists, I'm not too confident in Americans' ability to sacrifice their material comfort for civil rights.

Can you really blame for being paranoid about fundamentalists? What with the "The Walmart Incident" (http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/wal-mart-worker-trampled-to-death/262342?icid=200100397x1213689134x1200929272) (for lack of a better word) and the topic on Homeland Security and God (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=574544), it seems to me that the fundamentalists could easily take over. After all, while Americans aren't exactly trusting of fundamentalists, I'm not too confident in Americans' ability to sacrifice their material comfort for civil rights.

What does "the Wal-Mart incident" have to do with fundamentalists?

Can you really blame for being paranoid about fundamentalists? What with the "The Walmart Incident" (http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/wal-mart-worker-trampled-to-death/262342?icid=200100397x1213689134x1200929272) (for lack of a better word) and the topic on Homeland Security and God (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=574544), it seems to me that the fundamentalists could easily take over. After all, while Americans aren't exactly trusting of fundamentalists, I'm not too confident in Americans' ability to sacrifice their material comfort for civil rights.

What does the "Walmart incident" have to do with fundamentalists "taking over"?

And don't read too much into an obscure, essentially meaningless law in Kentucky.

We have survived with separation of Church and State essentially intact for over 200 years. I think we will survive a while longer.

Can you really blame for being paranoid about fundamentalists? What with the "The Walmart Incident" (http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/wal-mart-worker-trampled-to-death/262342?icid=200100397x1213689134x1200929272) (for lack of a better word)

Nothing more than common crowd dynamics in action. When you get people into a big group, they lose a sense of identity, and a sense of accountability for their own actions. It's similar to the Kitty Genovese incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese). Freshman Psychology 100 students will probably hear about this tale for the better part of the next century.

Or, perhaps, Kent State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings).

Really, a hybrid of the two.

Beyond that, I don't see what relation this is to your fears of fundies.

and the topic on Homeland Security and God (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=574544), it seems to me that the fundamentalists could easily take over. After all, while Americans aren't exactly trusting of fundamentalists, I'm not too confident in Americans' ability to sacrifice their material comfort for civil rights.

Common, democratic stupidity. That's all.

Can you really blame for being paranoid about fundamentalists? What with the "The Walmart Incident" (http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/wal-mart-worker-trampled-to-death/262342?icid=200100397x1213689134x1200929272) (for lack of a better word) and the topic on Homeland Security and God (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=574544), it seems to me that the fundamentalists could easily take over. After all, while Americans aren't exactly trusting of fundamentalists, I'm not too confident in Americans' ability to sacrifice their material comfort for civil rights.

The American government is much more stable than you think it is. We haven't imploded in 200 years, we're not going to do so anytime soon.

(And what does the Walmart Incident have to do with fundies?)

What does "the Wal-Mart incident" have to do with fundamentalists?

Sorry, I was a bit unclear about that. The "Wal-Mart Incident," IMO, proves that Americans value materialism obsessively, needless to say.

Sorry, I was a bit unclear about that. The "Wal-Mart Incident," IMO, proves that Americans value materialism obsessively, needless to say.

And what does that have to do with fundies?

Do you love America? I do and I wouldn't ever go to Canada. I'm not saying that you don't like America, it just seems weird you would consider going to a place like that.

And what does that have to do with fundies?

I just find it somewhat disturbing that Americans are so willing to place their material comfort above everything else. It's just my theory that people are being anesthesized with material comfort while the fundamentalists take power.

Do you love America? I do and I wouldn't ever go to Canada. I'm not saying that you don't like America, it just seems weird you would consider going to a place like that.

What's wrong with Canada? Apart from the French of course.

Do you love America? I do and I wouldn't ever go to Canada. I'm not saying that you don't like America, it just seems weird you would consider going to a place like that.

Currently, Canada is more appealing than the U.S. And no, I don't have what you would consider "love" for America, because nationalism is the kind of blind, unquestioning obedience that got Americans into the current mess. Similar like how Hitler used nationalism to justify his campaign of annexation.

What's wrong with Canada? Apart from the French of course.

There's no Canada like French Canada.
It's the best Canada in the land.
The other Canadas are hardly Canada.
If you lived here for a day, you'd understand.

Currently, Canada is more appealing than the U.S. And no, I don't have what you would consider "love" for America, because nationalism is the kind of blind, unquestioning obedience that got Americans into the current mess. Similar like how Hitler used nationalism to justify his campaign of annexation.

Godwin

Godwin

Damn, beat me to it

Godwin

Don't know what your point is here, but I'll premeptively point out yet again that Godwins are not fallacies, and are not a point against the validity of an argument.

Don't know what your point is here, but I'll premeptively point out yet again that Godwins are not fallacies, and are not a point against the validity of an argument.

I don't think you get the point of celebrating the arrival of the point of Godwin, do you?

Whats a Godwin...??

Whats a Godwin...??

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
-Michael Godwin, 1990

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
-Michael Godwin, 1990

I think it would be relevant to compare the United States to the beginnings of Nazi-Germany. Such as if people are willing to sacrifice civil rights and security for (again, this is becoming a motif) materialism (specifically, economic stability). Remember, President-elect Obama takes office in January. A lot can happen between now and January. I sincerely hope for the best, but am prepared for the worst.

I think it would be relevant to compare the United States to the beginnings of Nazi-Germany. Such as if people are willing to sacrifice civil rights and security for (again, this is becoming a motif) materialism (specifically, economic stability). Remember, President-elect Obama takes office in January. A lot can happen between now and January. I sincerely hope for the best, but am prepared for the worst.

No, no, no...you don't understand the point of Godwin--it's a celebratory moment...fizzy cider is appropriate. It's like the inevitable fulfillment of prophecy.

As far as more serious business is concerned, as a student of of the Weimarer Republik era of German history, I'd say that the contrasts between the two are...stark.

Materialistic corporatism and rampant, unthinking consumerist impulses are anti-christian in my view. Thanksgiving is more in line with christian thinking. As is "trick or canning" activities are on Halloween. So called "fundamentalists" cherry pick and misinterpret Scripture as much as anyone else.

Sorry for the rant, but since the stupidity that is Black Friday was brought up... as a devout Christian I felt obligated to say something about it. As far as Fallwellian fundamentalists taking over the country... ha, ha, ha. I wish there was something akin to the CDU in America to challenge the two parties, only difference would be I would shift it to the left a tad more. I guess the reason that the Christian Left does not get much attention is because of the horrors of Jonestown, which tarnishes Christian leftists like myself badly.

I don't want a totalitarian government of any kind, religious fundamentalism or atheistic fascism. Believe it or not, most of "teh fundie xians" are of the same opinion.

I don't want a totalitarian government of any kind, religious fundamentalism or atheistic fascism. Believe it or not, most of "teh fundie xians" are of the same opinion.

Atheists don't tend to take over governments.

Especially not the kind of atheists that would oppose the fundies.

I think it would be relevant to compare the United States to the beginnings of Nazi-Germany. Such as if people are willing to sacrifice civil rights and security for (again, this is becoming a motif) materialism (specifically, economic stability). Remember, President-elect Obama takes office in January. A lot can happen between now and January. I sincerely hope for the best, but am prepared for the worst.

You're only looking at one bit of the picture.

For one thing, Americans also tend to have an often irrational distrust of government. Remember when we tried to switch to metric? Remember why that didn't work? (If you really don't, it's because people would knock down the metric signs, leaving the feds the choice between switching back to imperial or not having any street signs)

EDIT: Oh, and that was in the 80s. Bush has probably made this even worse than it was then.

And they say us Conservatives are paranoid...

You're only looking at one bit of the picture.

For one thing, Americans also tend to have an often irrational distrust of government. Remember when we tried to switch to metric? Remember why that didn't work? (If you really don't, it's because people would knock down the metric signs, leaving the feds the choice between switching back to imperial or not having any street signs)


I remember those days get drunk knock over the metric signs. then shoot my gun in the air and drive off before the police came. the sad part is i can actually convert metric and imperial back and forth in my head so it didn't matter to me at all.

Atheists don't tend to take over governments.

Especially not the kind of atheists that would oppose the fundies.

I think the Warsaw Pact would disagree with that one...the technique of salami slicing to take control of governments and dismantle any pretense of democracy was honed to a masterful point by the regimes in Eastern Europe after WWII. Otherwise, they took over governments the old fashioned way, namely bloody revolution and civil war.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon?

Fundie groups are going to deflate a bit: US citizens are more bothered with the economical crisis than with the "values! values!" thingy.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon?

Nope, not going to happen.

Raúl Castro is the Anti-Christ?

Not that I know of?

Practical Advice: Don't worry so much about the U.S. itself--worry about the college you'll be attending.

There is a big difference between U of Cal Berkley or Mills College versus the Brigham Young or Liberty Universities.

I don't want a totalitarian government of any kind, religious fundamentalism or atheistic fascism. Believe it or not, most of "teh fundie xians" are of the same opinion.

Hey! What's wrong with atheistic fascism?

Hey! What's wrong with atheistic fascism?

Well, from experience, I'd say he's about to go off into a "Hitler was an atheist" rant. God knows I've seen that particular questionable historical "fact" often enough.

Is there a reasonable chance that the U.S. will become a fundamentalist state any time soon? Because I'm caught between making future plans of whether I should I go to college in the U.S. or move to Canada, solely based on the fear that the U.S. will turn into a fundamentalist state. So is it just me, or do other people have the same fear as mine?
If you think that the US is going to become fundamentalist, you are not smart enough for higher education.

If you think that the US is going to become fundamentalist, you are not smart enough for higher education.

I was wondering if the OP had actual brain damage. Either that, or they've been away from the US for a few years, and missed the entire election cycle where Obama and the Democrats won big.

I was wondering if the OP had actual brain damage. Either that, or they've been away from the US for a few years, and missed the entire election cycle where Obama and the Democrats won big.

And how Palin actually probably hurt McCain's chances, despite being a Bible belt nutter.

I was wondering if the OP had actual brain damage. Either that, or they've been away from the US for a few years, and missed the entire election cycle where Obama and the Democrats won big.

I vaguely recall some prop 8 thingy happening on the same day... a significant portion of the country blabbing about Obama the Osamalike muslim and something about schools "teaching the controversy".

But hey. Let us join Southparks Randy and sing about how fine Obama is and how everything will change.

I vaguely recall some prop 8 thingy happening on the same day... a significant portion of the country blabbing about Obama the Osamalike muslim and something about schools "teaching the controversy".

But hey. Let us join Southparks Randy and sing about how fine Obama is and how everything will change.

Obama promised, you know. Hope 'n' Change and all that.

It's why people voted for him.

There was some idiot reporter on MSNBC the other day, and he was actually surprised that there was a terror attack in Mumbai. He said that it was strange that after Obama was elected, that there was still terrorism - he thought that terrorism would just go away (after all, once Obama was elected, the world would automatically and instantly become "normal").

I had never heard such idiocy in my life, but that's the effect of the kool-aid.

If you think that the US is going to become fundamentalist, you are not smart enough for higher education.

I was wondering if the OP had actual brain damage. Either that, or they've been away from the US for a few years, and missed the entire election cycle where Obama and the Democrats won big.

Despite the fact that Obama and the Democratic Party did win big, I noticed that while California was a Democrat state, Prop. 8 passed with approx. 52%. And who says that fundamentalists are limited to a particular political party?

Despite the fact that Obama and the Democratic Party did win big, I noticed that while California was a Democrat state, Prop. 8 passed with approx. 52%. And who says that fundamentalists are limited to a particular political party?

Maybe a lot of people just hate gays, and don't need a religion to tell them to do that. Ever thought of that? Hm?

Despite the fact that Obama and the Democratic Party did win big, I noticed that while California was a Democrat state, Prop. 8 passed with approx. 52%. And who says that fundamentalists are limited to a particular political party?
Hating gay people is not the same as being fundamentalist.

Hating gay people is not the same as being fundamentalist.

Antilon has to blame someone, and doesn't want to blame the hordes of black and Hispanic people who hate gays.

Maybe a lot of people just hate gays, and don't need a religion to tell them to do that. Ever thought of that? Hm?
I've thought that-- but found it isn't really true.

The American government is much more stable than you think it is. We haven't imploded in 200 years
Well, except for once.

I've thought that-- but found it isn't really true.

So we should take your anecdotal experience over the statistical results from the Prop 8 fight?

Apparently, gays just aren't as well-liked as they show it on TV. And apparently, a lot of black women are just like Anita Bryant on the inside, by the statistics.

By the way, great commerical there with the two Mormon missionaries.

Surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. "Hi, we're from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!" says the blond one with a toothy smile. "We're here to take away your rights." The Mormon zealots yank the couple's wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.

As the thugs leave, one says to the other, "That was too easy." His smirking comrade replies, "Yeah, what should we ban next?" The voice-over implores viewers: "Say no to a church taking over your government."

It's one thing to say that the Mormon commercials about kindergarten children being taught gay values was hateful and wrong (well, here in Virginia, your kids get read "Heather Has Two Mommies" in kindergarten over parents' objections), and another to do the same hateful thing and not mention it at all...

Well, except for once.

When was this?

1860-65

Apparently, gays just aren't as well-liked as they show it on TV.

Note the difference between disliking a group, feeling justified about disliking a group and feeling justified about disliking and acting against a group.

Religion can offer the people a justification of feelings that they would otherwise feel ashamed about. It may not cause the feeligns, but it can serve as a catalyst to let people act on them.

Maybe a lot of people just hate gays, and don't need a religion to tell them to do that. Ever thought of that? Hm?

Possible... but can you honestly back that up when the LDS Church is being investigated on influencing the Prop. 8 vote and the Vatican's public opposition to the proposal that the U.N. eliminate the prosecution of homosexuality?

Antilon has to blame someone, and doesn't want to blame the hordes of black and Hispanic people who hate gays.

I'm not following you... who am I blaming for what?

Possible... but can you honestly back that up when the LDS Church is being investigated on influencing the Prop. 8 vote and the Vatican's public opposition to the proposal that the U.N. eliminate the prosecution of homosexuality?



I'm not following you... who am I blaming for what?

You're blaming a single church for the entire vote. When statistics show that a lot of people who voted for Obama (blacks and Hispanics who were NOT Mormons) voted against gays on Prop 8.

Not only that, when you complain about the lying ads the LDS put up (yes, they were distorted ads), you don't say a word about the types of anti-LDS ads that were put up - ones that if they had been anti-Jew or anti-Muslim, the Feds would have done a civil rights investigation...

Banning gay marriage is stupid. But blaming the Mormons for it is even stupider.

Never mind that Proposition 8 carried nearly every demographic slice of voters. Put aside the fact that the Catholic Church and scores of other Christian churches supported it too. Discount the inconvenient truth that bans on gay marriage have now passed in 30 states. It's all the Mormons' fault.

Sheesh, and I hate the LDS church on principle...

1860-65

From what I recall of my history classes the government continued to function quite well, just short a few states. Hardly what I'd call "implosion".

You're blaming a single church for the entire vote. When statistics show that a lot of people who voted for Obama (blacks and Hispanics who were NOT Mormons) voted against gays on Prop 8.

Not only that, when you complain about the lying ads the LDS put up (yes, they were distorted ads), you don't say a word about the types of anti-LDS ads that were put up - ones that if they had been anti-Jew or anti-Muslim, the Feds would have done a civil rights investigation...

I don't recall blaming the The LDS Church solely for supporting and passing Prop. 8... nor complaining about the "lying ads the LDS put up." I'm simply using the example of the passing of Prop.8 in California, which is a Democrat state, to make a point about how fundamentalists ( in general, not just limited to Christian fundamentalists but also Islamic and Jewish) are not limited to political parties, and how their ideals (in this example, intolerance of homosexuals) are pervasive.

I don't recall blaming the The LDS Church solely for supporting and passing Prop. 8... nor complaining about the "lying ads the LDS put up." I'm simply using the example of the passing of Prop.8 in California, which is a Democrat state, to make a point about how fundamentalists ( in general, not just limited to Christian fundamentalists but also Islamic and Jewish) are not limited to political parties, and how their ideals (in this example, intolerance of homosexuals) are pervasive.

Sorry, there weren't that many fundamentalists who voted in California.

Far more money was raised by the pro-gay people and spent on ads that are just as horrifying as the ads paid for by the LDS.

You're asking me to believe that all those blacks and all those Hispanics were devout, fanatical fundamentalists.

Face facts - a lot of people just hate gays.

Sorry, there weren't that many fundamentalists who voted in California.

Far more money was raised by the pro-gay people and spent on ads that are just as horrifying as the ads paid for by the LDS.

You're asking me to believe that all those blacks and all those Hispanics were devout, fanatical fundamentalists.

Face facts - a lot of people just hate gays.

I'm simply using the example of the passing of Prop.8 in California, which is a Democrat state, to make a point about how fundamentalists ( in general, not just limited to Christian fundamentalists but also Islamic and Jewish) are not limited to political parties, and how their ideals (in this example, intolerance of homosexuals) are pervasive.

I don't recall asking anyone "to believe that all those blacks and all those Hispanics were devout, fanatical fundamentalists."

I don't recall asking anyone "to believe that all those blacks and all those Hispanics were devout, fanatical fundamentalists."

That's who voted against gays.

You're saying this was a fundamentalist thing - that somehow, fundamentalists (loosely defined) either brainwashed Obama voters into voting against gays, even though pro-gay people outspent and outadvertised the "fundamentalists" - or, alternatively, the people who voted against gays "were" fundamentalists, which makes you wonder how many fundamentalists are in California (it's just not plausible).

Face it, it's not a fundamentalist thing. A lot of people just want to fuck gays over - in 30 states, including California. Obama isn't going to help you either, because he's said it's up to the individual states - he's said it many times now.

So even Obama has thrown them under the bus.

Face facts - a lot of people just hate gays.

I do acknowledge that people generally hate gays...

That's who voted against gays.

You're saying this was a fundamentalist thing - that somehow, fundamentalists (loosely defined) either brainwashed Obama voters into voting against gays, even though pro-gay people outspent and outadvertised the "fundamentalists" - or, alternatively, the people who voted against gays "were" fundamentalists, which makes you wonder how many fundamentalists are in California (it's just not plausible).

Face it, it's not a fundamentalist thing. A lot of people just want to fuck gays over - in 30 states, including California. Obama isn't going to help you either, because he's said it's up to the individual states - he's said it many times now.

So even Obama has thrown them under the bus.

...on the basis that it's morally and ethically wrong, reasoning which often comes from the interpretations of the Bible, most notably Genesis.
I also don't recall saying "that somehow, fundamentalists (loosely defined) either brainwashed Obama voters into voting against gays..." My point on mentioning Prop. 8 is that while many people hate homosexuals, Prop. 8 crosses the line in that it denies homosexuals civil rights, which has and is a fundamentalist agenda.

That's who voted against gays.

You're saying this was a fundamentalist thing - that somehow, fundamentalists (loosely defined) either brainwashed Obama voters into voting against gays, even though pro-gay people outspent and outadvertised the "fundamentalists" - or, alternatively, the people who voted against gays "were" fundamentalists, which makes you wonder how many fundamentalists are in California (it's just not plausible).

Face it, it's not a fundamentalist thing. A lot of people just want to fuck gays over - in 30 states, including California. Obama isn't going to help you either, because he's said it's up to the individual states - he's said it many times now.

So even Obama has thrown them under the bus.

Areas of high church attendance - where the churches teach a 'fundamental' form of Christianity - correlate closely with areas where opposition to gay marriage is strong. Similarly - demographics that are proportionately better represented in those segments, are stronger bases for support for gay marriage bans.

It isn't a matter of 'most people hating gays'. It's a matter of a lot of people doing what their church says is the right thing. And black and hispanic voters are statistically more likely to fall into that demographic.

Areas of high church attendance - where the churches teach a 'fundamental' form of Christianity - correlate closely with areas where opposition to gay marriage is strong. Similarly - demographics that are proportionately better represented in those segments, are stronger bases for support for gay marriage bans.


Where did you get this information? I suspected something along these lines, but I wasn't able to find anything of reasonable support...

Where did you get this information? I suspected something along these lines, but I wasn't able to find anything of reasonable support...

Because you won't.

That's who voted against gays.

No, "all blacks and Hispanics" did not vote yes on 8.

You're saying this was a fundamentalist thing

And what is it you're saying it is? A race thing? Must be genetic. Or are you going to cop out and say it has to do with "Hispanic culture" or "Black culture." Either way you're going to happily ignore all the white people who voted yes on 8, not to mention the reasons anyone might have actually had. No, you just drop the race bomb and let it stink up the place.

No, "all blacks and Hispanics" did not vote yes on 8.



And what is it you're saying it is? A race thing? Must be genetic. Or are you going to cop out and say it has to do with "Hispanic culture" or "Black culture." Either way you're going to happily ignore all the white people who voted yes on 8, not to mention the reasons anyone might have actually had. No, you just drop the race bomb and let it stink up the place.

Dude, it's Kimchi. He always blames it on the Darkies.

No, "all blacks and Hispanics" did not vote yes on 8.


The majority of black and Hispanic voters who voted for Obama voted yes on 8.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10909847


Even as African-American and Latino voters were a powerful force in boosting America's first black president to victory, in California they also were crucial to passing Proposition 8, a ballot measure labeled, "Eliminates right of same-sex couples to marry."

Exit polls showed that 70 percent of black voters, and a majority of Latino voters, voted yes on Proposition 8, one likely reason why the measure won a slim majority in Los Angeles County, where pre-election polls had suggested it would lose, even though it lost by a huge margin in the Bay Area.

The Rev. Amos Brown might have foreseen Proposition 8's victory. As Brown preached Sunday to his congregation that they should be mindful of everyone's civil rights when they voted on same-sex marriage this week, a church member tried to wrestle away the microphone, agitated that the preacher was discussing gay marriage in the black church.

Even when their religious leaders were telling them to help gays with civil rights, the blacks apparently didn't want to hear it.

So don't blame fundamentalism, either. Apparently the preacher was telling them to be mindful of civil rights, and the parishoners weren't going to have any of it.

You see how uninformed you are?

Godwin
How did people argue before 1933?
"Progressive income tax? This is just what Hitler would do!"
"Who's Hitler?"
"Er...an unsuccessful Austrian painter. But he's really evil; I can feel it."
"..."
To the OP, I would caution him or her against lumping all conservatives, even all conservative Christians, as fundamentalists. It's a specific ideology, and not really strong enough to seize political power without coalescing with other conservatives.

The majority of black and Hispanic voters who voted for Obama voted yes on 8.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10909847


And that accounted for what percentage of the TOTAL vote on Prop 8?

If you're going to blame race over religion, we should be seeing what... 40% or more of the YES-ON-8 vote should be black, right?


Even when their religious leaders...


You cited one preacher.


...were telling them to help gays with civil rights, the blacks apparently didn't want to hear it.

So don't blame fundamentalism, either. Apparently the preacher was telling them to be mindful of civil rights, and the parishoners weren't going to have any of it.

You see how uninformed you are?

One preacher said something about civil rights, and his parishioners didn't want to hear it... right?

So the moderate message, in the fundamentalist church, was overlooked? The hell you say?

I don't know what you think you were proving, but you realise you just made 'our' argument for 'us'?

The majority of black and Hispanic voters who voted for Obama voted yes on 8.

Note that that has no bearing on what I just said, or what you said, or your attempt to generalize from "a majority... who voted for Obama" to just the part about them being black or Hispanic.

Even when their religious leaders were telling them to help gays with civil rights, the blacks apparently didn't want to hear it.

Right, you can't even keep the goal posts in the same place for a single post. "A majority of black and Hispanic voters who voted for Obama" now gets used to talk about "the blacks."

So don't blame fundamentalism, either.

'Don't blame fundamentalism... blame the darkies!'

I think I'll just stick with blaming bigoted people who can't argue their way out of a paper bag. Seems to be the most accurate course. You're free to blame whatever minority group you find most useful to troll about however.

. Apparently the preacher was telling them to be mindful of civil rights, and the parishoners weren't going to have any of it.

You see how uninformed you are?

I fail to see how anything you said relates to how 'informed' I am, particularly as nothing you say surprises me.

using the nuclear scientists clock as an example, bush two had it at 23:30, mccain would likely have continuted advancing it toward 23:45. the election of obama, appears for now, to have moved it back beyond 20:00, maybe all the way back to 13:00, but the neo nazi banana peel certainly hasn't entirely gone away.

the difference now, we have hope in the right direction. when bush didn't attempt to anull the election after obama's win i breathed a major sigh of relief. call me paranoid, but that was something i was honestly worried about. i don't mean bush himself, of course, but there's still a carl rove, and donald rumsfield running arround behind the curtain somewhere and a dick chenney, still very much in public view, with his hand up bush's handpupet opening.

From what I recall of my history classes the government continued to function quite well, just short a few states. Hardly what I'd call "implosion".The German government was still functioning in May 1945, just short a little territory. I'm not sure exactly what you require before you diagnose an "implosion".

The German government was still functioning in May 1945, just short a little territory. I'm not sure exactly what you require before you diagnose an "implosion".

It was short a lot of territory...hell, I think the only real Nazi government left was the one in Flensburg. Most of the remaining territories were basically on their own.