NationStates Jolt Archive

I would hope that most people here on NSG are smart and mature enough not to have been swayed and hyped into this fad, but for those who both have and have not, I want to know is why is Twilight so popular and why is the fanbase so violent? I have wrote my own (kinda long) article on the subject and I'm interested as to what a more educated population has to say on the matter.

Am I seriously the only one who's sick of Facebook status messages with teenage, and even college, girls proclaiming their love for Edward Cullen? Am I the only one who feels that something should be done about the insanity of Twilight's fanbase? Am I the only one who is able to speak out against a series of poorly written books even with the inevitable threat of hate mail, hateful messages and comments?

Thankfully I have encountered the rare few who are brave enough to state how they feel about Twilight despite the fanbase who probably wants to have us burned at the stake for even daring to say something critical of their series of books they expect everyone to worship as if they were the Bible or whatever holy book you follow.

There are so many issues I have with Twilight and its fans that I don't even know where to begin. I could spend all night ranting about this cultish phenomenon, but I have better things to do and basically all Twilight fans I have encountered (save for one good friend of mine) lack the brain activity and maturity to properly read and debate any arguments about them and only respond with either attacking me or without shouting something along the lines of "Twilight is teh best book evar!" I'm sure that I'll probably attacked by hoards of crazed Twilight fans after posting this, but it's something I've come to expect. Your attacks on me don't hurt me at all, in fact I find it rather amusing that you so religiously defend these books, it only hurts you and makes you look more like the crazed fangirls that you are. It also proves that you're incapable of handling opinions that differ from your own and believe that everyone should think like you and thus think that Twilight is the best series of books ever. Sorry fangirls, attack me all you want, but I'm not going to change my opinion on what I believe to be on something that is such a grave insult to mythology, literature, feminism, and society in general.

First of all I feel rather annoyed when people defend these 'books' considering that they're nothing more than some crappy Mary-Sue fanfiction that somehow managed to get published. Case in point - the main female protagonist, Bella Swan. Wikipedia's definition of Mary Sue is as follows.

"Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and clichéd mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors."

This is very true when applied to Bella, who in only the first chapter says "Sometimes I wondered if I was seeing the same things through my eyes than the rest of the world was seeing through theirs. Maybe there was a glitch in my brain." Seems like poor Bella doesn't fit in and her inattentive divorced dad (who she even has trouble addressing him as such) only adds to her nature as a Mary Sue. The divorced parents cliche is either an attempt to give Bella more sympathy or a failed attempt to give her some much needed character development. Bella is described as introverted, extraordinarily pale, dark-haired, and, in line with the overt sexiness Meyer instills in her vampire characters, is very pretty...in fact, several guys at her new school practically fall over themselves trying to attract her attention and several girls find themselves extremely jealous.

Meyer attempts to counter this by giving Bella 'flaws', making her withdrawn, stupidly clumsy, pessimistic, unaware of her aura, and somewhat of a loner. This isn't the much needed character development, it only adds to her status as a Mary Sue and makes all the guys around her even more captivated by her

This brings me to my next point, Edward Cullen. While he has to be the most overrated character in recent fiction, he is almost as much as a Mary Sue as Bella, except he's male. With his "coal black" eyes, "absurdly handsome face", and "voice like velvet", he only adds to the 'perfection' and creepy sexualization that Twilight promotes. Now what is creepy sexualization you ask? It's taking a scary and mythical creature that has been a source of nightmares and stories for centuries and warping it into something downright undeniably and unrealistically attractive becoming the object of many fangirls' desires. In short, it makes you want to fuck a dead mythical creature's brains out. Meyer completely redefines what a vampire is supposed to be in a span of two pages.

"...how can you come out during the daytime?"
He laughed anyway. "Myth."
"Burned by the sun?"
"Myth."
"Sleeping in coffins?"
"Myth." ... "I can't sleep."

Did I also mention that Edward and other vampires sparkle in the sunlight instead of avoiding it whenever possible? Oh, and Edward (and his family) also has superpowers, can run super fast, can read minds (except Bella's because she's super special), and is immortal. There you have Meyer's vampire. Nothing like that of the vampires of lore we all know and used to love.

In only a few chapters, whatever tension the two had disappears when Bella discovers the truth and the two soon engage in a forbidden romance which becomes the focus of the remainder of the series. I'm don't even want to talk about Edward being a creepy stalker who watches her in her sleep. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want some creepy 108-year-old dead guy watching me sleep. In fact, I'd be creeped out by by anyone watching me sleep regardless of the 'good intentions' they have. I could go on about the other cliche Edward does, but Edward is not real. No guys are like that and will never be.

Oh, and there's this werewolf guy who's in love with Bella and she doesn't know if she loves him.

For you other Twilight haters and non-readers, I don't blame you if you were annoyed by reading about it. I felt like throwing up writing about it, but this is a serious issue that we need to address. This is basically a quick summary of the four books:

Book One - A flawless human girl meets a 'perfect' vampire, and he hates her guts. Suddenly, the tension disappears and you have the perfect human and vampire couple. The human wants to be a vampire, but the vampire refuses.

Book Two - The human girl almost becomes a snack for the Cullens, but she survives. The "perfect" vampire guy leaves the story completely, and he finally reappears in the last thirty pages, having spent the time wondering if he's supposed to love her. The question of the human becoming a vampire comes up again, but the vampire reluctantly refuses, unless she marries him. The story completely cuts off with that argument.

Book Three - "Will you bite me?" "No... Will you marry me?" "No."

Book Four - Bella and Edward are suddenly married an oh, wow, here's a baby that's sucking the life out of me! Let's make this even weirder by making the baby be born in a week's worth of time!

The next point is that Twilight should not be counted as literature and Meyer is not a true author and certainly not " the American answer to JK Rowling" that she prides herself as being. Rowling created a series of books with quirky, complex, and three dimensional characters with a solid plotline that ran through each one, with one small detail in one book being a major plot development in another. She stuck with her canon and knew that characters had to make sacrifices when needed and even killed off her own characters when the plot required it to allow for actual emotional and human development that could only come with losing someone or something. Rowling knew she had to make authorial sacrifices and wasn't afraid to not make everything go all sunshine, puppies, and rainbows. Not at all like in Twilight where the characters use every cliche in the book, are entirely one dimensional, and sacrifice nothing to attain no development. Let's also not forget how repetitive Meyer can be with so many words being used more once (also using every possible synonym) and that some spelling and grammar problems actually managed to get through. The word perfect is used a total of twenty-seven times and that's just to describe Edward in Twilight alone.

I have no problems with Meyer being inspired by a dream (though I do have a problem with her practically inserting herself into Bella), as many writers have found inspiration from dreams. If you are a writer and you have a dream which you find inspiring, you need to separate the good stuff from the nonsensical crap. Meyer clearly did not do this, therefore, she's not a writer, and the Twilight series is not literature. It's just over-rated fanfiction.

It's not just the books that's the problem, it's the fans. Seriously. I've yet to encounter a fandom that is as violent and ignorant as the Twilight fangirls. Even if other fans have series who are just as dedicated or as crazy for their series, they at least keep it to themselves. Trekkies have their conventions, Nartuo fans have their cosplaying, and Harry Potter fans can at least debate the books civilly and even admit to some critical points in them. So why is it only Twilight fans that are so violent and high off their own hype? I've honestly yet to encounter any Twilight fans that have yet to give me any reason to like the books other than by attacking me personally, saying how hot Edward is, or saying that Twilight is the best book ever. You know that there are other books out there. Books that are actually literature, have actual character and plot development, aren't so full of cliches, and don't rape the concept of a mythical creature. They expect everyone to act as if Twilight is the greatest thing on the planet and then resort to verbal, and in some cases physical, attacks when someone disagrees with them. Why do Twilight fans have such an issue when people point out the flaws in your 'holy books"? Why do they need to so religiously attack those of us who have a less than favorable opinion on them? Why can't they accept the fact that the books aren't as great as you claim them to be?

It's superficial girls like you that make it difficult for real and honest guys like me to find someone. All you seem to care about is how hot a guy is, how well he can play sports, and how much money you can mooch. Twilight only promotes the idea that you can only be happy in a relationship if the guy and the girl involved are both unrealistically attractive. Bonus points if he's a 108-year old dead guy. It's sad that I now have to start competing with fictional characters for any kind of relationship.

I laugh at the girls who say that they relate to Bella or are just like her. Twilight has only pushed feminism back a decade. So if you're so like Bella, then I guess you:

- Always cook for the man and find it fulfilling
- Don't mind being the only one who can bother keeping a house clean
- Wish to could have sex 24/7
- Will do whatever it takes to get attention from a man
- Need a man in you life, otherwise you risk suicidal symptoms (ex: jumping off cliff into lethal waves)
- Don't care about your life beforehand or any of your individual values now that you've met your soulmate
- Will completely surrender yourself so you can be in a relationship
- You are willing to completely destroy your body to birth a baby (with an embarrassing name, nonetheless)

It brings me to a point that anything marketed towards pre-teen and teenage girls will always be successful, regardless of quality. In addition to Twilight, other examples include Miley Cyrus, The Jonas Brothers, and every boy band that has walked the face of the Earth. I can hear the fangirls screaming now, but let them scream. It only proves my point. A tip for all writers, just dream up any random crap, put it in all in a 'book', somehow manage to get published, and gear it towards teenage girls. You'll become a millionaire overnight and have a cult-like following with people ready to so violently defend what you have wrote.

The only good thing that has come out of Twilight is that it has given me and other writers hope, that anything we write regardless of quality, can become published these days.

tl;dr

maybe you would like to summarize in 100 words or fewer?

i dont have a problem with it. its a teenaged vampire romance. the romance part is pretty well done (within the constraints of the genre) without being too overtly sexual.

why a college aged woman would be so taken with it as to idolize edward cullen i dont know. maybe they are all geeks?

While the books are retarded, their fans fools with terribly poor taste, and the mere mention of said books makes me need to spit, I need to comment on this:

Now what is creepy sexualization you ask? It's taking a scary and mythical creature that has been a source of nightmares and stories for centuries and warping it into something downright undeniably and unrealistically attractive becoming the object of many fangirls' desires

Vampires have always been about creepy sexuality.

And...

It brings me to a point that anything marketed towards pre-teen and teenage girls will always be successful, regardless of quality. In addition to Twilight, other examples include Miley Cyrus, The Jonas Brothers, and every boy band that has walked the face of the Earth.

The sexism destroys an arguement I may have been sympathetic too. While Miley Cyrus is also pathetic, and I would like nothing more than to personally beat the Jonas Brothers to death with a tire iron, your implication that teenage girls are somehow all inherantly naive is rather...insulting. Especially because what you market towards teenage and pre-teen boys is often equally successful. So long as its angry and angsty. Korn anyone?


EDIT: I also must ask...how do you know so much about these books?

While the books are retarded, their fans fools with terribly poor taste, and the mere mention of said books makes me need to spit, I need to comment on this:



Vampires have always been about creepy sexuality.

And...



The sexism destroys an arguement I may have been sympathetic too. While Miley Cyrus is also pathetic, and I would like nothing more than to personally beat the Jonas Brothers to death with a tire iron, your implication that teenage girls are somehow all inherantly naive is rather...insulting. Especially because what you market towards teenage and pre-teen boys is often equally successful. So long as its angry and angsty. Korn anyone?


EDIT: I also must ask...how do you know so much about these books?
id like to ask how do YOU know so much about the books, miley cyrus and the jonas brothers?

as an adult without children in that age range i know pretty much nothing about them (until the fuss about the last twilight book recently. i bought the first 2 books and have read them recently)

id like to ask how do YOU know so much about the books,

I know nothing in regards to the plot and more in regard to writing mechanics just from reading passages.

What gives you the impressions I know anything about these books?

miley cyrus

Radio. I dont know anything else about her other than shes in a TV show on Disney or Nickalodian.

and the jonas brothers?

Fiance/Radio. They also somehow won some music award recently, which is odd because I thought you had to actually write music to win a music award. But after the years of Hip-Hop I suppose I shouldnt be suprised.

That, and I had the misfortune of witnessing them at Summerfest. I was there to see Rush.

The point I was making wasn't sexist, and it's certainly not sexist if the facts back up the argument like they do. If you take a look at the correlation between the majority of things marketed towards pre-teen and teenage girls and their lack of quality compared to those things marketed towards older girls and guys, then you can clearly see the point I was trying to make.

Take a look at not only the things I listed, but also crap like High School Musical and all this other recent Disney musical garbage. While there are no doubt younger male fans of these things, it's simply the females who are more vocal and violent about it.

As for my knowledge, I have a source. Its called the Internet.

Nation of Quebec;14258638']
Take a look at not only the things I listed, but also crap like High School

Dont even get me started.

what problem do you have with it? it gets girls reading avidly.

what problem do you have with it? it gets girls reading avidly.

Id rather they read something...you know...good.


Im also sick of hearing about it. Its like Harry Potter. It was tolerable till it was everywhere I fucking went.

I hate when medicore and schlocky art/writing gets the praise that real talent ought to be getting.

I have no problems with them reading, but it's sad that they're reading what is basically a glorified fanfiction with messages that only harm society. They should be reading real literature instead of drooling over Edward Cullen.

Nation of Quebec;14258656']I have no problems with them reading, but it's sad that they're reading what is basically a glorified fanfiction with messages that only harm society. They should be reading real literature instead of drooling over Edward Cullen.
dont be silly. there is nothing wrong with teen girls reading drivelish romance. they have done it for decades.

they can read "literature" later when they have become good readers.

Seems like you've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder about these books. Just do what most people did about Harry Potter if they didn't like it: don't read and ignore those who go on about it. It's not like there's anyone forcing you at bayonet point to read it or anything. And if these people want to defend their books, then that's fair enough.

And you could have shortened that copy and paste down a bit.

Nation of Quebec;14258638']The point I was making wasn't sexist, and it's certainly not sexist if the facts back up the argument like they do. If you take a look at the correlation between the majority of things marketed towards pre-teen and teenage girls and their lack of quality compared to those things marketed towards older girls and guys, then you can clearly see the point I was trying to make.

Take a look at not only the things I listed, but also crap like High School Musical and all this other recent Disney musical garbage. While there are no doubt younger male fans of these things, it's simply the females who are more vocal and violent about it.
And? Teenage boys are marketed to with action movies and sex comedies, of which there are many. What do you think the male-to-female ratio of the audiences who went to see Wanted was?

dont be silly. there is nothing wrong with teen girls reading drivelish romance. they have done it for decades.

they can read "literature" later when they have become good readers.Twilight is a source of much...ire in my school. There are fans of Twilight, and there are others. If you are a fan of Twilight, you are cool. If you are not, you are not cool.

...See where this is going?

Seems like you've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder about these books. Just do what most people did about Harry Potter if they didn't like it: don't read and ignore those who go on about it. It's not like there's anyone forcing you at bayonet point to read it or anything. And if these people want to defend their books, then that's fair enough.

And you could have shortened that copy and paste down a bit.You haven't met any of the more vocal fans, have you? :D

dont be silly. there is nothing wrong with teen girls reading drivelish romance. they have done it for decades.

they can read "literature" later when they have become good readers.
This is true. I grew up on R. A. Salvatore and other fantasy pulp, but it hasn't kept me from growing into an appreciation of Jane Austen or Franz Kafka. Some day, the girls (I'm related to two of them) currently going nuts over Twilight will look back on all this and laugh at what dorks they were.

dont be silly. there is nothing wrong with teen girls reading drivelish romance. they have done it for decades.

they can read "literature" later when they have become good readers.

Problem is, some may think drivilish romance is literature! :p

Twilight is a source of much...ire in my school. There are fans of Twilight, and there are others. If you are a fan of Twilight, you are cool. If you are not, you are not cool.

...See where this is going?
no i dont.

where is it going?

is it the books fault that you have cliques in your school?

Problem is, some may think drivilish romance is literature! :p
so what? they enjoy it very much. they used to enjoy spongebob squarepants and think it is the height of entertainment. they'll outgrow it.

is it the books fault that you have cliques in your school?I believe that the book should not have any part in deciding who someone should hang out with. (Hint, hint.)

I believe that the book should not have any part in deciding who someone should hang out with. (Hint, hint.)
well DUH

but what does that have to do with anything?

well DUH

but what does that have to do with anything?Never mind.

To return to the topic:
They have even turned OCD into a joke about Twilight.
Obsessive Cullen Disorder. ...Seriously?

no i dont.

where is it going?

is it the books fault that you have cliques in your school?

so what? they enjoy it very much. they used to enjoy spongebob squarepants and think it is the height of entertainment. they'll outgrow it.

well DUH

but what does that have to do with anything?

Jesus, serious much?

You haven't met any of the more vocal fans, have you? :D
Nope.

Didn't even know the books existed until I read the OP.

I think it's merely a revival of the "Vampires are Tragic Victims, not Bloodsucking Monsters" schtick that Anne Rice unleashed on the Western world.

Jesus, serious much?
oh you were only joking with your posts? im sorry i didnt realize it.

Seems like you've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder about these books. Just do what most people did about Harry Potter if they didn't like it: don't read and ignore those who go on about it. It's not like there's anyone forcing you at bayonet point to read it or anything. And if these people want to defend their books, then that's fair enough.

And you could have shortened that copy and paste down a bit.

The difference between Harry Potter fans and Twilight fans was that Harry Potter fans can actually be debated in a civil manner and can see some flaws in the series. Twilight fans cannot. They resort to verbal attacks.

You obviously haven't encountered any of the more vocal Twilight fans. I have been called many things for posting my criticism online and thank God it was only online. I've heard stories of girls getting into fights and very heated arguments because one loves Twilight and the other doesn't. So yes, it is like they want to force you to read them no matter how much you try to ignore it.

Nation of Quebec;14258745']-snip-
No, I've not run into any fans of this book, as I didn't know it existed prior to reading your OP.

If it's as bad as you say, it might be wise just not to bother and be quiet when they start broadcasting their opinions about. I know, not always the best thing to do, but if it's that bad, it seems the best way to avoid any argument.

Count yourself lucky that you haven't encountered them. It is hard to ignore it when it's all over the internet and when they so vocally try to silence those who disagree with him.

If Twilight was actually good, then I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. The fact is that Twilight is not and is the most overrated book the past couple of decades and gets so much undeserved hype. I don't want any piece of crap to be counted as literature just because of a vocal fanbase.

Nation of Quebec;14258761']Count yourself lucky that you haven't encountered them. It is hard to ignore it when it's all over the internet and when they so vocally try to silence those who disagree with him.

If Twilight was actually good, then I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. The fact is that Twilight is not and is the most overrated book the past couple of decades and gets so much undeserved hype. I don't want any piece of crap to be counted as literature just because of a vocal fanbase.
you do seem to have a problem in seperating the book from its fans of your aquaintence.

any rudeness from a fan cannot be blamed on the book. any over estimation of the books quality cannot be blamed on the book. the book is what it is--a fun teenaged vampire romance with writing on a par with the vast majority of romance novels.

I hate the fan base the same way i hate any media portrayed fan base, but as havign never red the books i cant decide wether i hate them

I believe that the book should not have any part in deciding who someone should hang out with. (Hint, hint.)

oh bible lol nice:D i hate the bible too

I haven't had the curiosity to take a look at Twilight. And after reading this I don't think I will. I mean, I enjoy vampire stories, but they need to be well written and, if brought to the screen, well made. And teenaged vampire romances? I rather watch those in anime.

so what? they enjoy it very much. they used to enjoy spongebob squarepants and think it is the height of entertainment. they'll outgrow it.

DO NOT COMPARE THAT SHIT TO SPONGEBOB. Spongebob is a intelligent, humorous and intellectual show about the deep mysteries of life. Twilight is not

Nation of Quebec;14258745']The difference between Harry Potter fans and Twilight fans was that Harry Potter fans can actually be debated in a civil manner and can see some flaws in the series. Twilight fans cannot. They resort to verbal attacks.

You obviously haven't encountered any of the more vocal Twilight fans. I have been called many things for posting my criticism online and thank God it was only online. I've heard stories of girls getting into fights and very heated arguments because one loves Twilight and the other doesn't. So yes, it is like they want to force you to read them no matter how much you try to ignore it.

I am a Twilight fan (as well as a Harry Potter fan), and I can see its flaws. In fact I think most of your criticisms are valid, except maybe for the point Knights of Liberty already talked about. ("Vampires have always been about creepy sexuality."- I certainly thought Dracula had that element.)

I read Twilight over the summer after my younger brother recommended it to me. I enjoyed it because I didn't have unrealistic expectations for it. I took it for what it was and enjoyed it for that. I never expected it to be great literature, or even anywhere close. I read plenty of that for school. It was fun to read, and that was all I needed it to be. At times, especially in Breaking Dawn, a lot of the fun came from the flaws. I don't see any point in denying them. I have friends who love Twilight and friends who hate it and only went to see the movie in order to make fun of it, but it doesn't affect our friendships at all (why should it?) and we can all watch parodies of it and laugh together.

There could be much deathmatch fun in throwing Twilight-zoned fangirl and Narutards together inside Thunderdome.

There could be much deathmatch fun in throwing Twilight-zoned fangirl and Narutards together inside Thunderdome.

The Narutards would just pray while the fangirls faught over the male lead (Edward?).

There could be much deathmatch fun in throwing Twilight-zoned fangirl and Narutards together inside Thunderdome.

I so hate Naruto and Narutards.

Chandelier, you're literally the first Twilight fan I have encountered who actually can agree with me and disagree without the need to resort to verbal attacks. I don't know why the other fans aren't like you, but if they were, then I wouldn't have such an issue. You have my respect for being open minded on the issue.

It's still Twilight fans though that are the most vocal out of any fandom. I have criticized other series and their fandoms did not nearly attack me as much as the Twilight ones did. It's a courtesy that I grant when debating, to not resort to childish attacks, offensive posts, and even threats, when debating others. Sadly they don't return that courtesy.

Nation of Quebec;14258817']Chandelier, you're literally the first Twilight fan I have encountered who actually can agree with me and disagree without the need to resort to verbal attacks. I don't know why the other fans aren't like you, but if they were, then I wouldn't have such an issue. You have my respect for being open minded on the issue.

It's still Twilight fans though that are the most vocal out of any fandom. I have criticized other series and their fandoms did not nearly attack me as much as the Twilight ones did. It's a courtesy that I grant when debating, to not resort to childish attacks, offensive posts, and even threats, when debating others. Sadly they don't return that courtesy.

Quebec, don't expect too much from those fandoms, really. If the majority of the members are teenagers, don't expect them to be too deep or understanding regarding critizism to the series, or praise of it.

The sexism destroys an arguement I may have been sympathetic too. While Miley Cyrus is also pathetic, and I would like nothing more than to personally beat the Jonas Brothers to death with a tire iron, your implication that teenage girls are somehow all inherantly naive is rather...insulting. Especially because what you market towards teenage and pre-teen boys is often equally successful. So long as its angry and angsty. Korn anyone?

You are a pree-teen girl yes? I think you are because you related yourself to preteen girls. With this assumption I find you not liking the Jonas Brothers as strange, and you playing a country building game equally as strange. Now that we have reached the conclusion that you and I are strange neither of our thoughts change the fact that the MAJORITY of pree-teen girls like hanah montana and other shit. I know I fuckin go to their high school.
As for your Korn argument have you ever actually seen anyone listen to korn? seriously? No body does ( well a bunch opf ppl do) and its not in the news/marketed to death.

I have not read any of the Twilight books. I do have a problem with the whole "Vampires are tragic victims" thing. The central theme of vampires is that they live off of human blood - they feed on human beings. As a rule, they are evil. I can accept that some vampires are good, but they should be in the minority (barring a successful extermination effort).

Now, I'm a Buffy fan, so I have my own beloved human/vampire romance story. But the Buffy/Angel romance is quite different than the Bella/Cullen romance NoQ described. Of course, it was written by Joss Whedon.

You are a pree-teen girl yes? I think you are because you related yourself to preteen girls. With this assumption I find you not liking the Jonas Brothers as strange, and you playing a country building game equally as strange. Now that we have reached the conclusion that you and I are strange neither of our thoughts change the fact that the MAJORITY of pree-teen girls like hanah montana and other shit. I know I fuckin go to their high school.
As for your Korn argument have you ever actually seen anyone listen to korn? seriously? No body does ( well a bunch opf ppl do) and its not in the news/marketed to death.

KoL isn't a pre-teen girl, nor a girl, Builic. Calm down.

KoL isn't a pre-teen girl, nor a girl, Builic. Calm down.

Oh my bad srry. I auto assumed u he? was a girl as i explained.

Quebec, don't expect too much from those fandoms, really. If the majority of the members are teenagers, don't expect them to be too deep or understanding regarding critizism to the series, or praise of it.

I know, most teenagers are typically incapable of handling criticism maturely, especially if it's something they feel passionate about. The courtesy is something I hold for when debating people of all ages, but given my experiences with Twilight fans, it's a respect that I no longer hold for them.

Let's hope though that once they become older that all the girls who are currently in love with Edward Cullen now realize how much time they wasted drooling over these 'books'.

You are a pree-teen girl yes? I think you are because you related yourself to preteen girls. With this assumption I find you not liking the Jonas Brothers as strange, and you playing a country building game equally as strange.

Im a 21 year old Irish-Italian male majoring in political science at Northern Illinois University who listens to heavy metal, black metal, punk rock, and classical music. What the fuck are you on?


Now that we have reached the conclusion that you and I are strange neither of our thoughts change the fact that the MAJORITY of pree-teen girls like hanah montana and other shit.

No shit. Did you miss my point?

I know I fuckin go to their high school.

Right, Im 21 and in college but never went to high school. Youre the only one on NSG who has been to High School.

As for your Korn argument have you ever actually seen anyone listen to korn? seriously? No body does ( well a bunch opf ppl do) and its not in the news/marketed to death.

Yeah, they are.

I have not read any of the Twilight books. I do have a problem with the whole "Vampires are tragic victims" thing. The central theme of vampires is that they live off of human blood - they feed on human beings. As a rule, they are evil. I can accept that some vampires are good, but they should be in the minority (barring a successful extermination effort).

Now, I'm a Buffy fan, so I have my own beloved human/vampire romance story. But the Buffy/Angel romance is quite different than the Bella/Cullen romance NoQ described. Of course, it was written by Joss Whedon.

Exactly my point, vampires used to be dark creatures living off human blood. I don't mind some vampires being good either or even some romances with humans as long as it's not horrible cliche, but I do not accept vampires being pansies sparkling in the sunlight like disco balls who want to have sex with humans instead of hunting them. Hence my point of creepy sexualization. It's taking the scariness and the dark nature out of a beloved mythical creature.

I don't want to fall in love with vampires. I want to be frightened by them.

You are a pree-teen girl yes?
Yup, Kol is a preteen girl... :p
As for your Korn argument have you ever actually seen anyone listen to korn?

I freely admit that I like Koяn...

Spongebob is a intelligent, humorous and intellectual show about the deep mysteries of life. Twilight is not

After this, how are we supposed to be able to take you seriously?

Yup, Kol is a preteen girl... :p


I freely admit that I like Koяn...

So do I. Im just saying theyre not marketed toi death. Or at least not that I know of, and living in Canada if I havent heard of them in the mainstream media theyre not marketed enough

After this, how are we supposed to be able to take you seriously?

Your not. It was a joke, but I do love spongebob its funny

so what? they enjoy it very much. they used to enjoy spongebob squarepants and think it is the height of entertainment. they'll outgrow it.

Aren't adults suppose to enjoy the marvellously deep comic stylings of Spongebob? :eek:
Edit: Damn, beaten to it.

Right, Im 21 and in college but never went to high school. Youre the only one on NSG who has been to High School.

Are you in it right now? No. I was just saying that as someone currently in highschool I interact with a large amount of teenage girls that like the Jonas Brothers ( Hannah Montanan not so much)

Nation of Quebec;14258840']I know, most teenagers are typically incapable of handling criticism maturely, especially if it's something they feel passionate about. The courtesy is something I hold for when debating people of all ages, but given my experiences with Twilight fans, it's a respect that I no longer hold for them.

Let's hope though that once they become older that all the girls who are currently in love with Edward Cullen now realize how much time they wasted drooling over these 'books'.

Ever stop to wonder if the only reason you think all Twilight fans are crazed, unreasonable, and immature is because those are the ones who make themselves seen?

I like Star Trek, but I would never go to a convention. The show was kinda fun to watch. I liked reading the Harry Potter books, because they were engaging and had an enveloping plot.

I think that, unfortunately for you, there are many more Twilight fans than you think, but, fortunately for us, the only ones we notice are the crazy ones. Therefore, we assume that all of them are crazy, having witnessed no others.

This is validated by the friend you mentioned in your post, and by Chandelier. They don't scream in public places about their Cullen fantasies, but they enjoyed the books. Instead of believing that this is impossible (which it is clearly not), believe that it is harder to observe, and get over the whole Twilight thing.

Also, vampires being fast and strong - definitely cannon myth for a long time. Neither did the Twilight author invent the first fictional vampire who can stand sunlight.

So do I. Im just saying theyre not marketed toi death. Or at least not that I know of, and living in Canada if I havent heard of them in the mainstream media theyre not marketed enough

Here in Canada, good bands and artists don't get nearly enough recognition. It's all the same over-marketed crap that gets played all the time. In addition to always hearing The Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus, I also constantly hear crap like Nickelback and a plethora of other mainstream shitty Canadian bands. That's why I always keep the radio on the classic rock station.

It's superficial girls like you that make it difficult for real and honest guys like me blah blah blah blah blah
I believe I have found the source of your problem with Twilight. You're jealous of Edward Cullen, the hot guy who's also a type of vampire with 0 of the downsides traditionally associated with vampirism. Not to mention the fact that he has girls across the world squeeing their brains out, despite the fact he doesn't really exist.

I'll tell you what a friend told me(well, someone else), girls do like nice guys. But they don't like nice guys who whine about how girls only like hot guys.

Nation of Quebec;14258855']Exactly my point, vampires used to be dark creatures living off human blood. I don't mind some vampires being good either or even some romances with humans as long as it's not horrible cliche, but I do not accept vampires being pansies sparkling in the sunlight like disco balls who want to have sex with humans instead of hunting them. Hence my point of creepy sexualization. It's taking the scariness and the dark nature out of a beloved mythical creature.

I don't want to fall in love with vampires. I want to be frightened by them.

Vampire Sympathy Propaganda is as old as Anne Rice. When it's done now and then in a little bit, it's an unsual take on the genre. When it becomes so fucking popular it's the new mainstream, then it becomes nauseatingly cliché.

Can't stand the books. As a matter of fact, I was so vocal about it I earned the hate of the four girls who sit behind me in sociology and won't shut up about it.
The best part is, one of them made me a bet-if I read twilight, they read a book of my choosing that I know they'll hate. I agreed, and I'm getting it on monday. I think I'll have her read a Clancy book. Like, one of the long ones. :D

Oh, and you said something about the Twilight fans not being able to accept someone else's opinion?

Aren't you disregarding their opinions just because you think they're ill-formed?

Obviously, their opinions are there, otherwise, they wouldn't shout at you like they evidently do. (By the way, I've never been accosted by a Twilight fan, and I go to High School, where all these terrible, terrible girls go, you tell me.)

Something must have happened for form that opinion, and if it's simply that an author said a vampire was sexy, and they choose to fantasize about the sexiest vampire they can think of, than that's valid.

You are accepting their opinion just because you think it's not a correct(ly formed) one...

I'll tell you what a friend told me(well, someone else), girls do like nice guys.

*wakes up*

Wait... hold on. When the hell did this happen?! :mad:

Can't stand the books. As a matter of fact, I was so vocal about it I earned the hate of the four girls who sit behind me in sociology and won't shut up about it.
The best part is, one of them made me a bet-if I read twilight, they read a book of my choosing that I know they'll hate. I agreed, and I'm getting it on monday. I think I'll have her read a Clancy book. Like, one of the long ones. :D

Have her read the Necronomicon for double the laughs!

Can't stand the books. As a matter of fact, I was so vocal about it I earned the hate of the four girls who sit behind me in sociology and won't shut up about it.
The best part is, one of them made me a bet-if I read twilight, they read a book of my choosing that I know they'll hate. I agreed, and I'm getting it on monday. I think I'll have her read a Clancy book. Like, one of the long ones. :D

NO have them read the amazing book called Enders game, or a collection of sci-fi stories, the Asimov award ones. Its easily 1000 pages long:D

Nation of Quebec;14258840']I know, most teenagers are typically incapable of handling criticism maturely, especially if it's something they feel passionate about. The courtesy is something I hold for when debating people of all ages, but given my experiences with Twilight fans, it's a respect that I no longer hold for them.

Understandable.

Let's hope though that once they become older that all the girls who are currently in love with Edward Cullen now realize how much time they wasted drooling over these 'books'.

Hopefully, the great majority of them will grow out of that phase. Some won't, but mostly will. I just think you shouldn't put too much stock on what they think or do or say right now. It's inconsequential. You still enjoy your Twilight books and the series, right? That's all that matters.

I was once to referred to a Twilight fanfic that was hailed by many as "the worst epic story ever written". It was pretty funny wtfcrack!fic for a few pages, then I was bored.

Those five minutes, combined with the two minutes I took to read some of this thread and type this post, are the only ones I've ever spent contemplating a piece of pulp like Twilight, and hopefully the last.

Vampire Sympathy Propaganda is as old as Anne Rice. When it's done now and then in a little bit, it's an unsual take on the genre. When it becomes so fucking popular it's the new mainstream, then it becomes nauseatingly cliché.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't compare Anne Rice's vampire books with the vapidness of the Twilight series. Not even where it comes to the propaganda.

Nation of Quebec;14258817']Chandelier, you're literally the first Twilight fan I have encountered who actually can agree with me and disagree without the need to resort to verbal attacks. I don't know why the other fans aren't like you, but if they were, then I wouldn't have such an issue. You have my respect for being open minded on the issue.

It's still Twilight fans though that are the most vocal out of any fandom. I have criticized other series and their fandoms did not nearly attack me as much as the Twilight ones did. It's a courtesy that I grant when debating, to not resort to childish attacks, offensive posts, and even threats, when debating others. Sadly they don't return that courtesy.

Thanks. I obviously can't speak for what other fans do and say. I just know that my brother doesn't act as you describe either. Maybe it's just because I'm not "in love" with Edward Cullen, and I'm assuming my brother isn't either (although he did say he wouldn't mind having a fivesome with Bella, Alice, Esme, and Rosalie). :tongue:

I believe I have found the source of your problem with Twilight. You're jealous of Edward Cullen, the hot guy who's also a type of vampire with 0 of the downsides traditionally associated with vampirism. Not to mention the fact that he has girls across the world squeeing their brains out, despite the fact he doesn't really exist.

I'll tell you what a friend told me(well, someone else), girls do like nice guys. But they don't like nice guys who whine about how girls only like hot guys.

I never once said I was jealous, why the would I be over an overrated and one-dimensional fictional character? It's not like I have any interest in relationships anyway and I certainly wouldn't want one that's superficial like so many are these days. Twilight only promotes those superficial relationships.

My problems with Twilight was the vast majority of the fanbase being so damn vocal, the poorly-written books written by the hack of an author that gets so much undeserved hype and praise, and the complete redefining of a classical mythical creature.

I have not read any of the Twilight books. I do have a problem with the whole "Vampires are tragic victims" thing. The central theme of vampires is that they live off of human blood - they feed on human beings. As a rule, they are evil. I can accept that some vampires are good, but they should be in the minority (barring a successful extermination effort).
I think the gist of it is that vampires might have to live off humans or whatever, but it's not their fault. Something like that. Probably a comparison to us living off animals and plants, maybe some vampires being unnecessarily cruel, some having a hard-on for humanity and only nibbling on willing blood dolls.
*wakes up*

Wait... hold on. When the hell did this happen?! :mad:

Don't ask me, ask Poli. She said it.
Nation of Quebec;14258914']I never once said I was jealous,
I never said I like chocolate, but boy do I.
why the would I be over an overrated and one-dimensional fictional character?
Because he has superpowers and he's up to his eyes in pussy?
It's not like I have any interest in relationships anyway and I certainly wouldn't want one that's superficial like so many are these days. Twilight only promotes those superficial relationships.
Me thinks the anti-fanboy doth protest too much :tongue:

My problems with Twilight was the vast majority of the fanbase being so damn vocal,
You know you're just the same as them, right? They read the book, liked it, and told people about it. When they encounter people who didn't like the book, they are less than pleased. You read the book, didn't like it, and told people about it. When you encounter people who did like the book, you are less than pleased. You're basically an anti-fanboy for Twilight, no different than the people who hate and despise apple products because of their fanbase.
the poorly-written books written by the hack of an author that gets so much undeserved hype and praise,
In your opinion. Such things are very subjective.
and the complete redefining of a classical mythical creature.
Oh dear, you better not click here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurMonstersAreDifferent) then. People have been doing that with classical mythical creatures since the dawn of storytelling.

lol you guys are all just masturbating each other because you all hate twilight

I think the gist of it is that vampires might have to live off humans or whatever, but it's not their fault. Something like that. Probably a comparison to us living off animals and plants, maybe some vampires being unnecessarily cruel, some having a hard-on for humanity and only nibbling on willing blood dolls.

I find that last bit rather... scumptious.

Nation of Quebec;14258914']I never once said I was jealous, why the would I be over an overrated and one-dimensional fictional character? It's not like I have any interest in relationships anyway and I certainly wouldn't want one that's superficial like so many are these days. Twilight only promotes those superficial relationships.

My problems with Twilight was the vast majority of the fanbase being so damn vocal, the poorly-written books written by the hack of an author that gets so much undeserved hype and praise, and the complete redefining of a classical mythical creature.

Have you just decided to ignore my comments? Are you unable to respond, or are you choosing to only react to those people who offer agreement or funny responses?

lol you guys are all just masturbating each other because you all hate twilight

lol troll

lol you guys are all just masturbating each other because you all hate twilight

How do you masterbate somebody? I'm intrigued...

How do you masterbate somebody? I'm intrigued...

And someone online, to boot. That's quite an intriguing one indeed.

I believe I have found the source of your problem with Twilight. You're jealous of Edward Cullen, the hot guy who's also a type of vampire with 0 of the downsides traditionally associated with vampirism. Not to mention the fact that he has girls across the world squeeing their brains out, despite the fact he doesn't really exist.

I'll tell you what a friend told me(well, someone else), girls do like nice guys. But they don't like nice guys who whine about how girls only like hot guys.
i saw a couple of interviews with the actor who plays edward cullen in the movie. he seemed pretty taken aback by the squealing girl response to him now that he has played their hero.

Ever stop to wonder if the only reason you think all Twilight fans are crazed, unreasonable, and immature is because those are the ones who make themselves seen?

I like Star Trek, but I would never go to a convention. The show was kinda fun to watch. I liked reading the Harry Potter books, because they were engaging and had an enveloping plot.

I think that, unfortunately for you, there are many more Twilight fans than you think, but, fortunately for us, the only ones we notice are the crazy ones. Therefore, we assume that all of them are crazy, having witnessed no others.

This is validated by the friend you mentioned in your post, and by Chandelier. They don't scream in public places about their Cullen fantasies, but they enjoyed the books. Instead of believing that this is impossible (which it is clearly not), believe that it is harder to observe, and get over the whole Twilight thing.

Also, vampires being fast and strong - definitely cannon myth for a long time. Neither did the Twilight author invent the first fictional vampire who can stand sunlight.

I'm a Trekkie and Harry Potter fan myself, but I don't go screaming and resorting to verbally attacking someone simply because they criticize either one. Instead I debate them as maturely as possible to present my opinions. I can safely say the same for most other Trekkies and HP fans.

I never once said that there aren't some Twilight fans that don't resort to such childish behaviour and don't have their sexual fantasies about Edward, it's simply the vast majority that do. From what I've seen on the internet and the stories I hear from other people who hate Twilight and from my friend, it's a safe bet to say that the fans are indeed this crazy.

Given that the movie earned about 70 million on its opening weekend, I wouldn't be surprised that there are more fans than originally thought.

lol you guys are all just masturbating each other because you all hate twilight
I havent read it....
I find that last bit rather... scumptious.

Fortunately for the vampires in question, there's a pretty good supply of people who are into that kind of thing, as illustrated by NnT above.
Nation of Quebec;14258963']I never once said that there aren't some Twilight fans that don't resort to such childish behaviour and don't have their sexual fantasies about Edward, it's simply the vast majority that do. From what I've seen on the internet and the stories I hear from other people who hate Twilight and from my friend, it's a safe bet to say that the fans are indeed this crazy.
In your opinion.
i saw a couple of interviews with the actor who plays edward cullen in the movie. he seemed pretty taken aback by the squealing girl response to him now that he has played their hero.
Yeah, I figure he's going to be the next Whathisname Radcliffe. At least until the next Harry Potter movie comes out. The question becomes, will the people behind the movies actually try to get them to compete directly. Will they risk losing some of their fanbase to the other side?

And someone online, to boot. That's quite an intriguing one indeed.

Care to masterbate? ;)

I find that last bit rather... scumptious.

So....

Want to be my willing blood doll?

So....

Want to be my willing blood doll?

I would, if you promise no Twilight BS enactment and that you will bear-hug me. You do look like a bear, you know. A mean-looking Pooh bah!:fluffle:

Care to masterbate? ;)

Haha... no.

Haha... no.

sigh*
I guess I'll just try to pick up chicks on another forum...
:tongue:

Haven't seen the movie, haven't read the books, don't plan on changing either circumstance in the foreseeable future.

Last time I insulted the book in the presence of my friends, I got tickle-attacked.

Last time I insulted the book in the presence of my friends, I got tickle-attacked.

Maybe you should insult the book more often then...

Maybe you should insult the book more often then...

Yes, and be more recalcitrant about your ideas on it. Maybe it could lead to more... interetsing things than tickling.:wink:

And someone online, to boot. That's quite an intriguing one indeed.

*Masterbates Nanatsu no Tsuki*

*Masterbates Nanatsu no Tsuki*

*is masterbated by KoL?*

:eek:

Well, this is awkward.

Well, this is awkward.I, uh, I-!
...Yeah.

Nation of Quebec;14258638']

As for my knowledge, I have a source. Its called the Internet.

Ha ha aha ha ha ha ha ha! LMFAO! That's a good one.

The what craze?
Sorry, never heard of the books and really couldn't be bothered with a tweenie movie.

Nation of Quebec;14258589']I would hope that most people here on NSG are smart and mature enough not to have been swayed and hyped into this fad, but for those who both have and have not, I want to know is why is Twilight so popular and why is the fanbase so violent? I have wrote my own (kinda long) article on the subject and I'm interested as to what a more educated population has to say on the matter.Oh, crap! Someone didn't do their research!
This brings me to my next point, Edward Cullen. While he has to be the most overrated character in recent fiction, he is almost as much as a Mary Sue as Bella, except he's male. With his "coal black" eyes, "absurdly handsome face", and "voice like velvet", he only adds to the 'perfection' and creepy sexualization that Twilight promotes. Now what is creepy sexualization you ask? It's taking a scary and mythical creature that has been a source of nightmares and stories for centuries and warping it into something downright undeniably and unrealistically attractive becoming the object of many fangirls' desires. In short, it makes you want to fuck a dead mythical creature's brains out. Meyer completely redefines what a vampire is supposed to be in a span of two pages.

"...how can you come out during the daytime?"
He laughed anyway. "Myth."
"Burned by the sun?"
"Myth.""Sleeping in coffins?"
"Myth." ... "I can't sleep."The bolded part is, ironically enough, a modern redefinition of vampires. There's little to no folkloric basis for the "fact" that sunlight kills vampires.

Seriously, though: There's probably not a single vampire story that doesn't somehow redefine vampires in one way or another. Bad as Twilight may be, this isn't one of its faults.

Meh, Its the first time in my life (besides Harry Potter) where I seen girls reading novels from their own free will. Noting wrong with that. Literaure is like music or anything else all up to what your tastes are and where you are at with experiecing those tastes.

I seen some people critize Harry Plotters for things you liked about it. For example. How one detail in one book becomes a major plot point in another book. Once again it all up to the reader and what he or she thinks about it.

Whats far more alarming to me is the number of teenagers who don't understand/or get (or care) about the importance of books like How to Kill a MockingBird,Animal Farm or the Pearl. Those types of books which I sure we can all agree are quite good are thought of as boring by many teenagers because they cannot see how it affects them. And teachers don't know how to explain the points of those books.

While other books like Outsiders,or Shade Wing or those that do connects to Teenagers do so because of the plot and how it describe Teenage Life or is just a plain good read.



Also 1000 pages in a book isn't much guys. Seriously don't judge a book by it pages,but by the plot and it characters. Long written books can be just as acrappy as short books. On the otherhand their are some really good short stories out their also.


But once again it all up to your taste I suppose.

Meh, Its the first time in my life (besides Harry Potter) where I seen girls reading novels from their own free will.
Odd bunch you must be hanging around. I have seen plenty of girls reading novels of their own free will. If anything, it's generally the boys I have to convince to read something other than a gaming magiazine, music magazine, or comic.

well i've never heard of it and don't freequent facebook (or any of those other substitutes for making a webpage, i forget what the older and bigger one all the musicians seem to use is called), so its kind of a major "meh", whatever it is. i've no love for violence and lots of love for nonviolent wierd.

Odd bunch you must be hanging around. I have seen plenty of girls reading novels of their own free will. If anything, it's generally the boys I have to convince to read something other than a gaming magiazine, music magazine, or comic.

Hmm.... I should rephrase that..I mean its the first time I seen kids my age reading the books in school while being totally absorted with a book without hiding the fact their actually reading a (*gasp* OMG!) book.


Heck I have actually seen a boy or two reading the books so their! :P

comic.

Surely you mean 'graphic novel' ;)

The irony of the original post is blistering.

Oh, crap! Someone didn't do their research!
The bolded part is, ironically enough, a modern redefinition of vampires. There's little to no folkloric basis for the "fact" that sunlight kills vampires.

Seriously, though: There's probably not a single vampire story that doesn't somehow redefine vampires in one way or another. Bad as Twilight may be, this isn't one of its faults.

I was hoping someone would bring this up. Although Twilight makes them sparkle in the sunlight, which isn't much of an improvement IMO.

But let's take staking. Originally it didn't kill vampires, it just kept them from leaving their coffins. Also, modern vampires don't seem to have ribs given how easy it is to stake them. IIRC, the only sure way to kill them was either decapitation or to hammer a stake through its heart, shove garlic in its mouth, cut off its head, dismember it, burn the pieces in a fire, and scatter the ashes across holy ground. Which, it's worth pointing out, will also kill most people.

Overall though, what I most object to is really attributable to Anne Rice. Mostly I object to vampires being redefined as tragically heroic figures. I think Vampirism should be something evil like it was meant to be. I think vampires should be evil. Not because they want to be, but because that's what you become as a vampire. I want to see noble heroes become vampires against their free will, and struggle in vain with their morality only to fail or destroy themselves first. I want a reason for every human to not want to be a vampire.

I seen some people critize Harry Plotters for things you liked about it. For example. How one detail in one book becomes a major plot point in another book. Once again it all up to the reader and what he or she thinks about it.

As much as it is a matter of style, I still think there's an objective difference between Chekhov's Gun and Purple Prose.

Whats far more alarming to me is the number of teenagers who don't understand/or get (or care) about the importance of books like How to Kill a MockingBird,Animal Farm or the Pearl. Those types of books which I sure we can all agree are quite good are thought of as boring by many teenagers because they cannot see how it affects them. And teachers don't know how to explain the points of those books.

Ugh, don't get me started. I'm like the only one my age I know that actually enjoyed Animal Farm

I was hoping someone would bring this up. Although Twilight makes them sparkle in the sunlight, which isn't much of an improvement IMO.

But let's take staking. Originally it didn't kill vampires, it just kept them from leaving their coffins. Also, modern vampires don't seem to have ribs given how easy it is to stake them. IIRC, the only sure way to kill them was either decapitation or to hammer a stake through its heart, shove garlic in its mouth, cut off its head, dismember it, burn the pieces in a fire, and scatter the ashes across holy ground. Which, it's worth pointing out, will also kill most people.

Overall though, what I most object to is really attributable to Anne Rice. Mostly I object to vampires being redefined as tragically heroic figures. I think Vampirism should be something evil like it was meant to be. I think vampires should be evil. Not because they want to be, but because that's what you become as a vampire. I want to see noble heroes become vampires against their free will, and struggle in vain with their morality only to fail or destroy themselves first. I want a reason for every human to not want to be a vampire.



As much as it is a matter of style, I still think there's an objective difference between Chekhov's Gun and Purple Prose.



Ugh, don't get me started. I'm like the only one my age I know that actually enjoyed Animal Farm
"twilight" gives plenty of reasons to not want to be a vampire--the herione gets a paper cut in front of one of the civilized vampires and is immediately attacked and ends up in the hospital.

but, just like all teen girls who fall for bad boys, she overlooks that little problem (it wasnt her sweetheart who attacked her). "but i LUUUUUV him" is taken to a whole new level.

The world needs to learn how to find literary enjoyment in facets other than romance (meant for girls, typically) and violence (meant for men).

Here's a little thing for anyone who has annoying fangirls in their school, like me and every other school. Don't call him him Edward Cullen. Call him Ed or Eddie. It drives them absolutely insane. yes, I hate the book. A lot. But I have seen SOME people in my grade read novels for actual fun. But sadly, for every five books being read. Four of them are Twilight now. Bleh...

Nation of Quebec;14258817']Chandelier, you're literally the first Twilight fan I have encountered who actually can agree with me and disagree without the need to resort to verbal attacks. I don't know why the other fans aren't like you, but if they were, then I wouldn't have such an issue. You have my respect for being open minded on the issue.

It's still Twilight fans though that are the most vocal out of any fandom. I have criticized other series and their fandoms did not nearly attack me as much as the Twilight ones did. It's a courtesy that I grant when debating, to not resort to childish attacks, offensive posts, and even threats, when debating others. Sadly they don't return that courtesy.

I walked into this thread knowing nothing about the books. So far, I've seen three main opinions on it. There's the opponents, who seem to be very aggressive about it all, perfectly demonstrated by your posts. There's the people who've never read it, and are objecting to some of what you've said. And there's chandelier, who is a fan, and was very polite and well spoken.

Have you ever stopped to think that your attitude about the whole thing might be a cause of some of the hostility you've run into?

(Also, hai chandy)

Surely you mean 'graphic novel' ;)

There's a difference.

Nation of Quebec;14258589']I would hope that most people here on NSG are smart and mature enough not to have been swayed and hyped into this fad, but for those who both have and have not, I want to know is why is Twilight so popular and why is the fanbase so violent? I have wrote my own (kinda long) article on the subject and I'm interested as to what a more educated population has to say on the matter.

Wow, that was annoying. The first three paragraphs of your ‘article’ basically serve only to spell out your self-proclaimed (but unsubstantiated) superiority to a wide group of people who seem to have only their interest in this Twilight series/movie in common. Your literary analysis is extremely lacking in substance, and you provide no real reason for your ‘problem’ with the non-traditional take on vampires other than its...non-traditional.

I couldn’t figure out why you care so much (I certainly don’t, haven’t read the books, seen the movie or given either any thought) until I read this, “It's superficial girls like you that make it difficult for real and honest guys like me to find someone. All you seem to care about is how hot a guy is, how well he can play sports, and how much money you can mooch. Twilight only promotes the idea that you can only be happy in a relationship if the guy and the girl involved are both unrealistically attractive. Bonus points if he's a 108-year old dead guy. It's sad that I now have to start competing with fictional characters for any kind of relationship.”

Ah. So now you are blaming this series/film for your inability to get a girlfriend. That’s pathetic.

Who cares if people like something you don’t consider ‘literature’? I’ll never understand why people like you need to stick his or her nose into other people’s preferences.

what problem do you have with it? it gets girls reading avidly.Exactly.

Nation of Quebec;14258656']I have no problems with them reading, but it's sad that they're reading what is basically a glorified fanfiction with messages that only harm society. They should be reading real literature instead of drooling over Edward Cullen.

That's the stupidest thing I've read today. Good thing you're not a homophobe or a racist or you'd be finding all sorts of other messages that 'harm society'.

The world needs to learn how to find literary enjoyment in facets other than romance (meant for girls, typically) and violence (meant for men).

As a transsexual I read violent romance stories

Nation of Quebec;14258761']Count yourself lucky that you haven't encountered them. It is hard to ignore it when it's all over the internet and when they so vocally try to silence those who disagree with him. Oh grow up. You make it sound like they're Scientologists or something.

Nation of Quebec;14258914']I never once said I was jealous, why the would I be over an overrated and one-dimensional fictional character? It's not like I have any interest in relationships anyway and I certainly wouldn't want one that's superficial like so many are these days. Twilight only promotes those superficial relationships.



I didn't want those grapes anyway...they were sour.

The world needs to learn how to find literary enjoyment in facets other than romance (meant for girls, typically) and violence (meant for men).

I would love it if everyone read Foundation as well, but I'm not sure if Asimov's style is normal enough to have wide appeal.

But more seriously, getting people reading is a fantastic start. As long as it's just text, no pictures. It gets people's imaginations working, and helps them to not just passively consume media. No matter how bad the book is, to get engaged in it you need to imagine the world and get involved with it, in a way that you simply don't when watching TV.

If it's generic vampire or hard SF, I don't care, as long as they actually get into reading. Then we can get them onto the good stuff.

As a transsexual I read violent romance stories

James Bond?

I'm not sure if Asimov's style is normal enough to have wide appeal.

Tell me about it; I love Jack Vance's Cugel-centered stories.

IOverall though, what I most object to is really attributable to Anne Rice. Mostly I object to vampires being redefined as tragically heroic figures. I think Vampirism should be something evil like it was meant to be. I think vampires should be evil. Not because they want to be, but because that's what you become as a vampire. I want to see noble heroes become vampires against their free will, and struggle in vain with their morality only to fail or destroy themselves first. I want a reason for every human to not want to be a vampire.


This. Ann Rice is an idiot and raped and mutilated the vampire myth.

Fuck her.

This. Ann Rice is an idiot and raped and mutilated the vampire myth.

Fuck her.

Have you actually READ her novels? Or are you just making this assumption from watching both of the films based on her books? Because if that's what you're doing, you're doing a poor service to yourself. Interview and Queen of the Damned sucked ass and were detrimental to the books.

Her books are well written. Her prose is excellent. One thing is your dislike of her take on vampirism. Another thing is that you base your opinion or assertion without true, prior knowledge of the writer and her work.

Her books are well written. Her prose is excellent. One thing is your dislike of her take on vampirism. Another thing is that you base your opinion or assertion without true, prior knowledge of the writer and her work.

I have read Interview with a Vampire and The Vampire Lestat.


I hate her. I hate her take on the vampire myth. I feel it mauled the original mythes.

I also hate her writing, but Im not interested in debating taste.


EDIT: Why is it that, by the way, you assume that just because I dislike her it must mean that I never read her novels? Thats like the posters on here that when you disagree with their conclusions claim you must not have read their source.

I have read Interview with a Vampire and The Vampire Lestat.


I hate her. I hate her take on the vampire myth. I feel it mauled the original mythes.

I also hate her writing, but Im not interested in debating taste.

I think her take on the vampire was a good one. I read the classics like Dracula and Carmilla. I also read The vampyr. All these preceeding Dracula. I found them all to be too gory and boring.

I think her take on the vampire was a good one. I read the classics like Dracula and Carmilla. I also read The vampyr. All these preceeding Dracula. I found them all to be too gory and boring.

Youre entitled to like her. Me attacking her is not a personal attack on you.

This. Ann Rice is an idiot and raped and mutilated the vampire myth.

Fuck her.

What vampire myth exactly did she violate? In other words, what are some vampire novels of which you approve?

EDIT: For the record, I am no particular fan of Rice, but I am a fan of a large range of vampire/supernatural fiction that no doubt you will equally blame for not living up to your ideals of vampires.

Wow, that was annoying. The first three paragraphs of your ‘article’ basically serve only to spell out your self-proclaimed (but unsubstantiated) superiority to a wide group of people who seem to have only their interest in this Twilight series/movie in common. Your literary analysis is extremely lacking in substance, and you provide no real reason for your ‘problem’ with the non-traditional take on vampires other than its...non-traditional.

I couldn’t figure out why you care so much (I certainly don’t, haven’t read the books, seen the movie or given either any thought) until I read this, “It's superficial girls like you that make it difficult for real and honest guys like me to find someone. All you seem to care about is how hot a guy is, how well he can play sports, and how much money you can mooch. Twilight only promotes the idea that you can only be happy in a relationship if the guy and the girl involved are both unrealistically attractive. Bonus points if he's a 108-year old dead guy. It's sad that I now have to start competing with fictional characters for any kind of relationship.”

Ah. So now you are blaming this series/film for your inability to get a girlfriend. That’s pathetic.

Who cares if people like something you don’t consider ‘literature’? I’ll never understand why people like you need to stick his or her nose into other people’s preferences.

To be fair, you could argue that the books set a terrible example. Edward, for instance practically stalks her at points, and Bella is quick to completely cut off her friends and family just to be with Edward. Or so I've been told, at least. That doesn't sound like it sets very healthy examples.

Youre entitled to like her. Me attacking her is not a personal attack on you.

Nor are my posts an attack to your personal taste or of you. But I think it's unfair you say fuck her or that you hate her if you don't have a wider scope of her work. She didn't write only about vampires.

What vampire myth exactly did she violate? In other words, what are some vampire novels of which you approve?

EDIT: For the record, I am no particular fan of Rice, but I am a fan of a large range of vampire/supernatural fiction that no doubt you will equally blame for not living up to your ideals of vampires.

No doubt? Bold assumption, that doesnt really have much backing, considering Ive only really attacked Rice and Twilight (but havent really attacked Twilight on the basis of its treatment of vampires, becuase I havent read the novels, just passages here and there. Ive attacked it more on the shitty writing). My problem with Rice lies in her making them a sort of tragic hero, "good guys", romanticising them, etc.

Oh, and taking away all their weaknesses and letting them keep their strengths. Their weaknesses defined the vampire as a symbol. To remove them removes, or at the very least, cheapens the symbol.

What vampire myth exactly did she violate? In other words, what are some vampire novels of which you approve?

EDIT: For the record, I am no particular fan of Rice, but I am a fan of a large range of vampire/supernatural fiction that no doubt you will equally blame for not living up to your ideals of vampires.

Well the biggest change was that Vampires became tragic figures instead of villainous ones. The whole decay of vampires to emos-with-fangs started with her work, though I don't know that she specifically traveled the entirety of that transition.

Nation of Quebec;14258589']I would hope that most people here on NSG are smart and mature enough not to have been swayed and hyped into this fad, but for those who both have and have not, I want to know is why is Twilight so popular and why is the fanbase so violent? I have wrote my own (kinda long) article on the subject and I'm interested as to what a more educated population has to say on the matter.

I find the Twilight craze a bit banal and tedious, but generally harmless. No worse than anyother fad of which I am not a part.

But, pray tell, why do you claim Twilight fans are particularly violent? From your rant, you appear to equate disagreeing with you strongly with violence. That would be a problem on your part, not on the part of Twilight fans.

I find the Twilight craze a bit banal and tedious, but generally harmless. No worse than anyother fad of which I am not a part.

But, pray tell, why do you claim Twilight fans are particularly violent? From your rant, you appear to equate disagreeing with you strongly with violence. That would be a problem on your part, not on the part of Twilight fans.

Theyre violent because they dont date him and dont think hes "hot".

No doubt? Bold assumption, that doesnt really have much backing, considering Ive only really attacked Rice and Twilight (but havent really attacked Twilight on the basis of its treatment of vampires, becuase I havent read the novels, just passages here and there. Ive attacked it more on the shitty writing). My problem with Rice lies in her making them a sort of tragic hero, "good guys", romanticising them, etc.

Oh, and taking away all their weaknesses and letting them keep their strengths. Their weaknesses defined the vampire as a symbol. To remove them removes, or at the very least, cheapens the symbol.

Um. You rather pointedly avoided the questions I raised:


What vampire myth exactly did she violate?


What are some vampire novels of which you approve?

As for your critique of Rice and what you know of Twilight, there are different interpretations of the vampire myth out there. Some differ as to what the strengths and/or weaknesses of vampires are. I fail to understand why this offends you so much.

Well the biggest change was that Vampires became tragic figures instead of villainous ones. The whole decay of vampires to emos-with-fangs started with her work, though I don't know that she specifically traveled the entirety of that transition.

Yep, she probably didnt intend for them to turn into bitchy little emo kids who suck blood, rather than dark creatures (killers) of the night. But that doesnt mean I cant blame her for starting it, or if she didnt start it (in case there was a book published before hers that did it) she certianly made it popular.

Yep, she probably didnt intend for them to turn into bitchy little emo kids who suck blood, rather than dark creatures (killers) of the night. But that doesnt mean I cant blame her for starting it, or if she didnt start it (in case there was a book published before hers that did it) she certianly made it popular.

I doubt it truly began with her, but I believe it became mainstram with the character of Lestat.

Um. You rather pointedly avoided the questions I raised:

Because I wanted to touch on your absurd assertion that Id attack your taste first.


What vampire myth exactly did she violate?

As was mentioned, they arent bad guys anymore. She "humanized" them.

Also, they are not hurt my crucifices, they can go on holy ground, the sun doesnt weaken them, and garlic has no effect on them.

The symbol of a vampire is the quintessential outsider. Their weaknesses are all based on avoiding things that would have made someone an outcast in society (the aversion to the holy, for example). By removing their weaknesses, you cheapen their symbolism.

Rice' novels lack the potent symbolism the vampire represents.


What are some vampire novels of which you approve?


Dracula for starters. Carmilla is good, and The Vampyr is all right. 30 Days of Night, the graphic novel, is nice as well.

Really though, its all about Dracula.


As for your critique of Rice and what you know of Twilight, there are different interpretations of the vampire myth out there. Some differ as to what the strengths and/or weaknesses of vampires are. I fail to understand why this offends you so much.

It doesnt offend me. Having a dislike for something does not mean it "offends" me. But, as I explain above, the weaknesses define the vampire's symbolism, and the symbolism is what makes the vampire interesting.

Because I wanted to touch on your absurd assertion that Id attack your taste first.

LOL.

Ok, in addition to many other stray novels and series, I like:


Charlaine Harris's Southern Vampire series (and the HBO Trueblood based on the series)

Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series

Kim Harrison's Rachel Morgan series

Was I wrong in thinking you disapprove of how vampires are treated in these books?

As was mentioned, they arent bad guys anymore. She "humanized" them.

Also, they are not hurt my crucifices, they can go on holy ground, the sun doesnt weaken them, and garlic has no effect on them.

The symbol of a vampire is the quintessential outsider. Their weaknesses are all based on avoiding things that would have made someone an outcast in society (the aversion to the holy, for example). By removing their weaknesses, you cheapen their symbolism.

Rice' novels lack the potent symbolism the vampire represents.

It doesnt offend me. But, as I explain above, the weaknesses definethe vampire's symbolism, and the symbolism is what makes the vampire interesting.

Actually it sounds like you identified with Vampires as outsiders and resent any change to that identity.

It has been a while since I read anything by Rice, but IIRC her vampires were not just weakened, but usually destroyed by exposure to the sun.



Dracula for starters. Carmilla is good, and The Vampyr is all right. 30 Days of Night, the graphic novel, is nice as well.

Really though, its all about Dracula.

Personally, I'm not particularly fond of Dracula or The Vampyr. I haven't read Carmilla. I do like 30 Days of Night.

Given your taste, you might like F. Paul Wilson's Midnight Mass.

LOL.

Ok, in addition to many other stray novels and series, I like:


Charlaine Harris's Southern Vampire series (and the HBO Trueblood based on the series)

Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series

Kim Harrison's Rachel Morgan series

Was I wrong in thinking you disapprove of how vampires are treated in these books?

Well, you werent wrong, but you arent right either. I havent read anything of the above:p

My fiance reads the Hamilton series....question...arent they romance novels (well...more like goth porn novels)? Honost question, I honostly dont know, Ive never read them. Ive just seen the covers, and given the lady's fondness of them I assumed they were (since her favorite form of "literature" happens to be trashy romance novels :p)

Actually it sounds like you identified with Vampires as outsiders and resent any change to that identity.

This is true.


It has been a while since I read anything by Rice, but IIRC her vampires were not just weakened, but usually destroyed by exposure to the sun.

Aaah yes. This is correct. Stratch that from my list of weaknesses. They blew up.



Personally, I'm not particularly fond of Dracula or The Vampyr. I haven't read Carmilla.

If you didnt like Dracula you wont like Carmilla, very similar.

I do like 30 Days of Night.

Because it rules.


Given your taste, you might like F. Paul Wilson's Midnight Mass.

I will have to check that out. Thank you.

Oh and how could I forget? I quite like I Am Legend too. The book. Not the Will Smith movie that has nothing in common with it aside from the name.

The only thing worse than a cult phenomenon is the pretentious backlash. You odn't like Twilight? Who cares. I'm far less impressed with people who can't simply agree to disagree and ignore the phenomenon and would rather petulantly bitch about the fans of a book and move that are -- *gasp* -- popular. It's as if the very definition of popularity is something ranters can't seem to grasp. Great. You abhor the next new thing because it's the next new thing. So wait a month. The craze will pass and those same people or their younger versions will be on to their next slate of literary pabulum. Bromides dressed in edgy clothing will always sell. Get over it. Folks, you would HATE your favorite undiscovered novel or whatever if it were suddenly very popular, and you know it. Life goes on. Rail against the inevitable or spend your energy somewhere constructive and positive for you. Tearing down the flavor of the month is not exactly difficult.

Well, you werent wrong, but you arent right either. I havent read anything of the above:p

My fiance reads the Hamilton series....question...arent they romance novels (well...more like goth porn novels)? Honost question, I honostly dont know, Ive never read them. Ive just seen the covers, and given the lady's fondness of them I assumed they were (since her favorite form of "literature" happens to be trashy romance novels :p)

There is a fair degree of goth porn to the Hamilton series -- it varies a bit by book and tends to increase as the series goes along. Personally, I could take or leave that aspect of the books, but find redeeming qualities in them nonetheless. The earlier books are much more horror/adventure oriented.

Also, I can't believe I didn't list Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files, which has vampires that are different than the Dracula mold.

Oh and how could I forget? I quite like I Am Legend too. The book. Not the Will Smith movie that has nothing in common with it aside from the name.

Ugh. Although the book was better than the movie, I thought both sucked.

There is a fair degree of goth porn to the Hamilton series -- it varies a bit by book and tends to increase as the series goes along. Personally, I could take or leave that aspect of the books

Dont lie. You love some good old goth porn. :p


Also, I can't believe I didn't list Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files, which has vampires that are different than the Dracula mold.


I have heard good things about this, but havent read them.


Ugh. Although the book was better than the movie, I thought both sucked.

From a writing perspective, I can agree that Matheson is less than awesome.

Other than that, meh, cant argue taste.

There is a fair degree of goth porn to the Hamilton series -- it varies a bit by book and tends to increase as the series goes along. Personally, I could take or leave that aspect of the books, but find redeeming qualities in them nonetheless. The earlier books are much more horror/adventure oriented.

TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnitaBlake) explains the series in a way that's fairly close to my perspective.

the only thing worse than a cult phenomenon is the pretentious backlash. You odn't like twilight? who cares. I'm far less impressed with people who can't simply agree to disagree and ignore the phenomenon and would rather petulantly bitch about the fans of a book and move that are -- *gasp* -- popular. It's as if the very definition of popularity is something ranters can't seem to grasp. Great. You abhor the next new thing because it's the next new thing. So wait a month. The craze will pass and those same people or their younger versions will be on to their next slate of literary pabulum. Bromides dressed in edgy clothing will always sell. Get over it. Folks, you would hate your favorite undiscovered novel or whatever if it were suddenly very popular, and you know it. Life goes on. Rail against the inevitable or spend your energy somewhere constructive and positive for you. Tearing down the flavor of the month is not exactly difficult.

qft

TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnitaBlake) explains the series in a way that's fairly close to my perspective.

Fair play. It is a matter of taste, I guess. My point was that that some purist notion of "that's not a vampire" is nothing more than one's taste wrapped up in notions of grandeur.

Nation of Quebec;14258589']I would hope that most people here on NSG are smart and mature enough not to have been swayed and hyped into this fad, but for those who both have and have not, I want to know is why is Twilight so popular and why is the fanbase so violent? .

Hell hath no fury like young women whose mills&boonesque fantasy has been scorned.

I was hoping someone would bring this up. Although Twilight makes them sparkle in the sunlight, which isn't much of an improvement IMO.Blech...
But let's take staking. Originally it didn't kill vampires, it just kept them from leaving their coffins. Also, modern vampires don't seem to have ribs given how easy it is to stake them. IIRC, the only sure way to kill them was either decapitation or to hammer a stake through its heart, shove garlic in its mouth, cut off its head, dismember it, burn the pieces in a fire, and scatter the ashes across holy ground. Which, it's worth pointing out, will also kill most people.Staking's been more of an invention that was necessary for the plethora of action stories where the protagonists have to deal with multitudes of vampires all at once. Buffy and Blade would have a much harder time if they had to chop off individual heads every time they wanted to kill a vampire. Generally, the whole "Vampires are vulnerable to silver" junk tends to annoy me, although Dracula 2000 managed a decent explanation as to why it was so, so it gets an honorable exemption.
Overall though, what I most object to is really attributable to Anne Rice. Mostly I object to vampires being redefined as tragically heroic figures. I think Vampirism should be something evil like it was meant to be. I think vampires should be evil. Not because they want to be, but because that's what you become as a vampire. I want to see noble heroes become vampires against their free will, and struggle in vain with their morality only to fail or destroy themselves first. I want a reason for every human to not want to be a vampire.I've always liked the Masquerade take on vampires, in that they have a free will (the constant spiralling towards bloodlust not so much). It brings up the interesting contrast between free will and soul.

This. Ann Rice is an idiot and raped and mutilated the vampire myth.

Fuck her.

No doubt? Bold assumption, that doesnt really have much backing, considering Ive only really attacked Rice and Twilight (but havent really attacked Twilight on the basis of its treatment of vampires, becuase I havent read the novels, just passages here and there. Ive attacked it more on the shitty writing). My problem with Rice lies in her making them a sort of tragic hero, "good guys", romanticising them, etc.They're still largely murdering bastards.
Oh, and taking away all their weaknesses and letting them keep their strengths. Their weaknesses defined the vampire as a symbol. To remove them removes, or at the very least, cheapens the symbol.Having to live off human blood and immortality are the defining characteristics of vampires.
As was mentioned, they arent bad guys anymore. She "humanized" them.Lestat was a friggin' bastard. Any human behaving the way Anne Rice's vampires generally do would be reviled by most of society.
Also, they are not hurt my crucifices, they can go on holy ground, the sun doesnt weaken them, and garlic has no effect on them.Holy ground and crucifixes are primarily inventions and reinterpretations by Christian missionaries seeking to capitalize on local superstitions. By no means are they more or less valid than any other reinterpretation of the vampire myth, despite being one of the oldest. Sunlight's been a changing thing. Overall, I don't mind removing it as an inhibitor at all. Garlic... Who really cares about garlic?
The symbol of a vampire is the quintessential outsider. Their weaknesses are all based on avoiding things that would have made someone an outcast in society (the aversion to the holy, for example). By removing their weaknesses, you cheapen their symbolism.This doesn't fit garlic, though. If anything, being able to eat garlic and receiving the inevitable garlic breath are more likely to make you an outsider =P
Dracula for starters. Carmilla is good, and The Vampyr is all right. 30 Days of Night, the graphic novel, is nice as well.

Really though, its all about Dracula.Dracula isn't really all that great, though. The "oh, he was such a dear" that gets walloped into every paragraph near the end is particularly tedious.

Pratchett's take on a lot of the vampire myths in Carpe Jugulum is quite cool. It's both a play off a lot of the Hollywood ideas of vampirism, as well as apparently quite a few of the older myths surrounding them.

I too had no idea why this book/movie was so damn popular, until I read this. (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200812/twilight-vampires)

Fair play. It is a matter of taste, I guess. My point was that that some purist notion of "that's not a vampire" is nothing more than one's taste wrapped up in notions of grandeur.TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurVampiresAreDifferent) has a page for that too.

I too had no idea why this book/movie was so damn popular, until I read this. (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200812/twilight-vampires)
yeah thats it.

yeah thats it.

You agree? I was kinda taking the journo's word for it.. The craze isn't so big over here, but what she was saying seemed to make sense.

Twilight? Never heard of it!

You agree? I was kinda taking the journo's word for it.. The craze isn't so big over here, but what she was saying seemed to make sense.
its a teenaged vampire romance novel.

thats what ALL romance novels are about....true love, unrequited love, impossible love, whatever

TEEN romance is about denial and forbidden love. dangerous love.

when you combine that with the attraction that bad boys hold for good girls in real life... well edward is the ultimate bad boy with a heart of gold.

it certainly isnt the adventure plot. the author sucks at that part. the first book is 450 pages of falling in love and 50 terrible pages of "and then something bad happens"

its a teenaged vampire romance novel.

thats what ALL romance novels are about....true love, unrequited love, impossible love, whatever

TEEN romance is about denial and forbidden love. dangerous love.

when you combine that with the attraction that bad boys hold for good girls in real life... well edward is the ultimate bad boy with a heart of gold.

it certainly isnt the adventure plot. the author sucks at that part. the first book is 450 pages of falling in love and 50 terrible pages of "and then something bad happens"

True.. I must say my experience with romance novels is rather limited.
I guess you can't get much more bad boy than vampire.
Anyway, reading that article almost made me want to try Twilight out, but not quite.

True.. I must say my experience with romance novels is rather limited.
I guess you can't get much more bad boy than vampire.
Anyway, reading that article almost made me want to try Twilight out, but not quite.
are you female? i enjoyed it for the look at how teen girls think about "true love".

if it had been out when i was a teen girl it would have made me gag.

are you female? i enjoyed it for the look at how teen girls think about "true love".

if it had been out when i was a teen girl it would have made me gag.

No, male.
Maybe as a teen too I could learn a thing or two from it, heh.

are you female? i enjoyed it for the look at how teen girls think about "true love".

if it had been out when i was a teen girl it would have made me gag.

If it had been out when I was a teen girl, weeelll then I would have wondeed what the hell is going on here, were did these tits come from?!

No, male.
Maybe as a teen too I could learn a thing or two from it, heh.
i highly recommend that you study robert patterson's hair style and copy it as closely as possible (much easier than getting vampire tooth veneers)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/lizterry/RobertPattinson_HouseofWax2.jpg

If it had been out when I was a teen girl, weeelll then I would have wondeed what the hell is going on here, were did these tits come from?!
lol

but doesnt that sentence imply that there WAS a time when you were a teen girl?

I am admittedly a big fan of the series. Though I myself never went as far as to make bold statements about an undying love for a fictional vampire, a friend of mine was a prime example of that sort of girl. She was in love with Edward, was going to name her first child after Jasper, maybe even legally change her name to Bella Cullen. Obsessed. Delusional. Sad.
Hey, I will not disagree that the portrayal of the Cullens and the Quileute shapeshifters is romanticized to such a degree that the characters and their lives seem quite appealing. I get the "...LOVES Edward Cullen <3" and "... aka Mrs. Cullen <3" girls. Sadly enough I do. Girls do that, it does not matter what they are reading. If there is a strong constant character with a hero/hunk/villain portrayal in the story, the girls' imaginations will go wild. They will make Draco Malfoy or Edward Cullen or Jacob Black into their dream.
Of everyone I know, none get more wrapped up and buried in books than I. But I know where the line is between reality and a book. Earlier in the series it took me a moment after setting down the book to fade back into reality, but after the cheesy ending of Breaking Dawn I'm done. I'll give the movie(s) a chance, I'll go back to the books if I have a long trip and nothing else to do, and if she releases it I'll check out Midnight Sun. But my faint fangirl-ism is over.
Love the books, hate the fans...but I'm keeping my fangs. ^_^;


Edit- Oh, and I actually do like parts of Steph's vampire science/laws/set-up. The venom thing among others are good and actually are part of my whole vamp set-up in the two stories I'm writing.
The sparkling thing is weird though...that's just a step too far toward the 'shiny, happy, cuddly vampires' thing.

lol

but doesnt that sentence imply that there WAS a time when you were a teen girl?

Ohh there have been times that I wished I was a teenage girl, umm heh but all that's in the past!

i highly recommend that you study robert patterson's hair style and copy it as closely as possible (much easier than getting vampire tooth veneers)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/lizterry/RobertPattinson_HouseofWax2.jpg

Damn.. I can do the eyes, eye brows and beard pretty well. As for the hair? Not likely!

I am admittedly a big fan of the series. Though I myself never went as far as to make bold statements about an undying love for a fictional vampire, a friend of mine was a prime example of that sort of girl. She was in love with Edward, was going to name her first child after Jasper, maybe even legally change her name to Bella Cullen. Obsessed. Delusional. Sad.
Hey, I will not disagree that the portrayal of the Cullens and the Quileute shapeshifters is romanticized to such a degree that the characters and their lives seem quite appealing. I get the "...LOVES Edward Cullen <3" and "... aka Mrs. Cullen <3" girls. Sadly enough I do. Girls do that, it does not matter what they are reading. If there is a strong constant character with a hero/hunk/villain portrayal in the story, the girls' imaginations will go wild. They will make Draco Malfoy or Edward Cullen or Jacob Black into their dream.
Of everyone I know, none get more wrapped up and buried in books than I. But I know where the line is between reality and a book. Earlier in the series it took me a moment after setting down the book to fade back into reality, but after the cheesy ending of Breaking Dawn I'm done. I'll give the movie(s) a chance, I'll go back to the books if I have a long trip and nothing else to do, and if she releases it I'll check out Midnight Sun. But my faint fangirl-ism is over.
Love the books, hate the fans...but I'm keeping my fangs. ^_^;
the good thing is that there are tons of other vampire books out there, many of which (probably) are very well written (vampire fiction isnt my thing). stepping up to better written non-romance novels is a huge pleasure.

how old are you and how long were you enamored with the series?

Ohh there have been times that I wished I was a teenage girl, umm heh but all that's in the past!
lol

that is so disturbing as to be hilarious.

(i have a mental image of you as a manly man kind of guy)

lol

that is so disturbing as to be hilarious.

(i have a mental image of you as a manly man kind of guy)

Indeed I am! I got the beard, piecrcings, tats and everything! I like football, beer and breasts also.

Hah I have ever been the sensitive type though.:D