NationStates Jolt Archive

Another example of the Liberal Party's idea of solidarity:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/06/dion-manley.html

Dion must go, former Liberal deputy PM says

Former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley said the Liberal caucus and party executive should move to choose a new leader before Christmas who can get the caucus ready for the resumption of Parliament in January.

"As a Liberal, I believe the first step for my party is to replace Stéphane Dion as leader with someone whose first job is to rebuild the Liberal party, rather than leading a coalition with the NDP," Manley said in an opinion piece in Saturday's Globe and Mail.

Obviously Manley is a bit of a yesterday's man (and frankly, Dion should have been too), but hearing a senior party member speak out so openly only days after prorogement bodes ill for any idea of a coalition government.

I particularly liked this comment;

Manley said the idea that the public would welcome Dion as prime minister after having rejected him during the Oct. 14 federal election "was delusional at best."

What are the odds that any Liberal candidate for leadership of the party is going to want to take the captain's chair prior to taking the throne through a non-confidence vote? That's what sacrificial lamb Dion is for.

Obama's so right wing he makes me want to puke. I'd almost prefer Harper over Obama because at least people can see through Harper's bullshit.

Obama - he's progressive. Relatively.

What are the odds that any Liberal candidate for leadership of the party is going to want to take the captain's chair prior to taking the throne through a non-confidence vote? That's what sacrificial lamb Dion is for.
It appears that the odds are very good? (http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081206%2frae_ignatieff_081207)

"Michael Ignatieff pretty much has this leadership race wrapped up," CTV's Chief Political Correspondent Craig Oliver told CTV Newsnet Sunday evening.

Oliver said LeBlanc will make the announcement Monday, according to senior officials. He said LeBlanc will bring four MPs and five senators with him to back Ignatieff.

The Liberal caucus is to meet on Wednesday, which will include 57 MPs who support Ignatieff, Oliver said. They would "almost certainly" vote to make Ignatieff their parliamentary leader, putting immense pressure on Liberal MP Bob Rae to drop out of the leadership race.

But the Rae camp says that choosing a leader behind closed doors is not the right move for the Liberal party.

Earlier on Sunday, Ignatieff said the Liberal caucus may "accelerate" the process to replace Dion, and warned that Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government will fall if it does not produce a strong budget next month.

In an interview on CTV's Question Period, Ignatieff declined to echo former deputy prime minister John Manley's call for Dion to immediately step down.

However, he did suggest the caucus wants a new, permanent Liberal leader already in place should the opposition parties choose to vote down Harper's government when the budget is tabled on Jan. 27.

"I think there is an emerging feeling in the caucus that given the importance of this vote in late January, it would be appropriate to have a leader in place, a permanent leader in place, and I think it's fair to say that the caucus is considering various options about how to do that, to accelerate our leadership process," Ignatieff said Sunday.

In a separate interview later on Question Period, Rae repeated Ignatieff's call for a decision on the Liberal leadership before Parliament resumes on Jan. 26.

"We need to have the leadership race moved up and we need to make sure that we've got a broad consultation with the party before the end of January," Rae said.
Looks like both Rae and Ignatieff are chomping at the bit with Iggy in the lead.

This is becoming more and more like a daily joke. I am not really impressed by either candidate.

Ottawa has the dubious honour of being named the most boring city in Canada for a reason.

That is very true. I can say that with full confidence having sadly wasted 12 years of my life in that frozen douche-bag infested hell hole.

...

Sovereignty is separatism?

Why aren't you calling every single First Nation separatists then?

How about 'strong federalist'?

It appears that the odds are very good?

The odds may be good that they'll have a new leader. I don't think the odds are good that they're going to pull the plug on the government via coalition. My bet is Ignatieff takes the lead and 'wisely' negotiates some sort of stalemate with the Conservatives, provided they make conciliatory budget measures (that won't keep the NDP happy at all.)

I think that is the route that the PM will explore, rather than force the Liberals hand and push the country into another election or a coalition that the country is deeply divided on.

Both the Conservatives and the Liberals need time to polish their image, and the prorogement is exactly the element they needed to do it.

The odds may be good that they'll have a new leader. I don't think the odds are good that they're going to pull the plug on the government via coalition. My bet is Ignatieff takes the lead and 'wisely' negotiates some sort of stalemate with the Conservatives, provided they make conciliatory budget measures (that won't keep the NDP happy at all.)


I agree. Ignatieff is the last nail in the coaliton's coffin. :(

I don't know if this (http://harperdictatorship.ca/) has been posted before but it is rather clever.

Well I'm not too happy about it but It looks like Ignatieff is the front runner.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081208/national/liberal_leadership

I'm convinced that Ignatieff is such an insincere flip-floppy neo-con in sheeps clothing -- I'd rather have harper than him. The last liberal leadership there was an underground stop Ignatieff campaign -- think we oughta get that going again.

And heres a link to the introduction of his book, typical ponderous blow-hard stuff ...
http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/6531F4FF-EED2-44EC-9831-2783EBD53D57/0/IgnatieffPaper.pdf

Harper's tactic of burning his bridges behind him has certainly galvanised the Parti Québecois electorate. They did much better inthe provincial elections than anticipated. Some even suggested sending a thank-you letter to Harper for his comments.

The right wing ADQ party went from 41 seats in the National Assembly to 7 seats. Québec Solidarité, the coalition party that united all the fringe left wing elements actually got a seat.

Bob Rae is still much alive in that race, but he could hurt the Liberals in Ontario. They need Leblanc - someone nobody knows! Perfect! Couldn't do worse than Dion.

Bob Rae is still much alive in that race, but he could hurt the Liberals in Ontario.
In reality, Bob Rae has dropped out of the race (http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081209%2fLiberals_leader_081209):

Bob Rae has formally announced he is withdrawing his bid for the Liberal leadership, paving the way for Michael Ignatieff to become the party's new leader.

"I am not a candidate for the interim leadership, nor shall I pursue my candidacy for the party leadership at the Vancouver convention," Rae told reporters at an afternoon press conference.

They need Leblanc - someone nobody knows! Perfect! Couldn't do worse than Dion.
I agree with you on Leblanc, but that is also not going to happen.

What gets me is that the reason behind forming the "coalition" is justified because of the inaction of Harper's Conservatives to put forth a progressive package to help Canadians. The following demonstrates that:

Tuesday's statement was the first in which the Bank of Canada was unequivocal that the country had fallen into a recession. The closest that governor Mark Carney had come previously was last month when he said recession was a distinct possibility.

Since then the vast majority of economic indicators have been in retreat, including retail sales, auto purchases, housing starts and prices, commodity prices - and dramatically - last month's 70,600 shrinkage in jobs.

The central bank's move was partly a "catch-up" after it did not cut rates more deeply in October, and was urgently needed because of the lack of economy-boosting spending by the Conservative federal government, commented IHS Global Insight economist Dale Orr.

"Today the cry for fiscal stimulus for Canada is loud and clear," Orr wrote.

"Instead of examining what the government could do to stimulate the economy facing such difficult times, the government opted to try to present a balanced budget."

Although monetary and fiscal stimulus differ in the manner they boost growth, Orr said interest rates cuts are preferred by economists because their impact is quicker and can more readily be reversed when the economy recoups.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty have said they will present a stimulus package in the budget scheduled for Jan. 27 - although the opposition parties have called for more speedy action and had threatened to topple the minority government over perceived inaction.
What gets me is that it appears that a majority of Canadians are now buying into Harper's divisive politics and appear to be missing the root cause of such divisiveness. Wake up Canada.

For the next two months, we have a Congress but no President. You get a Prime Minister but no Parliament. Let's see which kind of leadership vacuum screws up an economy worse.

For the next two months, we have a Congress but no President.
Huh? You have TWO Presidents for the next two months. Incoming and outgoing, although the the incoming is more outgoing. :D

You get a Prime Minister but no Parliament. Let's see which kind of leadership vacuum screws up an economy worse.
Easy answer......Harper.

Huh? You have TWO Presidents for the next two months. Incoming and outgoing, although the the incoming is more outgoing.
When Obama is pressed to take actions now, he commonly says "We only have one President at a time."
Barney Frank quipped, "I think he may be overestimating how many Presidents we have right now."

When Obama is pressed to take actions now, he commonly says "We only have one President at a time."
He may be saying that but I do believe that he acts otherwise:

Obama performing almost like a co-president to Bush (http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20081124/pl_mcclatchy/3108625)

America has never seen anything quite like this: The president and president-elect acting like co-presidents, consulting and cooperating on the day's biggest crises.

"It's pretty unusual," said George Edwards , a presidential expert at Texas A&M University, in College Station .

Barney Frank quipped, "I think he may be overestimating how many Presidents we have right now."
Too funny!! :)

EDIT: to stay on topic, the US is moving forward whilst our government is on a "forced" holiday.

Well I'm not too happy about it but It looks like Ignatieff is the front runner.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081208/national/liberal_leadership

I'm convinced that Ignatieff is such an insincere flip-floppy neo-con in sheeps clothing -- I'd rather have harper than him. The last liberal leadership there was an underground stop Ignatieff campaign -- think we oughta get that going again.

And heres a link to the introduction of his book, typical ponderous blow-hard stuff ...
http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/6531F4FF-EED2-44EC-9831-2783EBD53D57/0/IgnatieffPaper.pdf
Follow up.....Ignatieff it is....leader that is of the LPC.

I would take almost anyone over Harper right now. Let's see where Iggy lands.

It appears that he will use the coalition tools IF necessary. Iggy has put the Harp on notice:

Change or I'll take you down: Ignatieff to PM (http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081210%2figgy_leader_081210)

Brand new Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff said Wednesday he would honour the days-old coalition with the NDP to topple the Conservatives.

"I am prepared to form a coalition government, and to lead that government and provide Canada with the security and stability it needs," Ignatieff said in Ottawa Wednesday afternoon.
Too bad that Canada's economy gets shifted to the back burner because of Harper locking down Parliament.

Harper to fill 18 Senate seats with Tory loyalists (http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081210%2fharper_senate_081210)

Another side effect to the proposed Coalition Government.....

But according to insiders, what really drove Harper to move quickly and fill the vacant Senate seats is the possibility of losing political power in January at the hands of the Liberal-NDP coalition.

The centre-left alliance, which is supported by the separatist Bloc Quebecois, is threatening to boot the Tories out of power by voting against their budget bill in late January.

"It would be irresponsible to have this unelected coalition government stack the Senate with their supporters," said one Conservative insider.
Strange for a guy who earlier proposed an elected Senate....

Harper had campaigned on replacing the unelected body with elected Senators. Before the fall election, the Tories had proposed legislation to allow for their appointment in provinces that held Senate elections, and limit their terms to just eight years.

Currently, senators in the 105-seat chamber serve until the age of 75.

In a speech to his caucus almost exactly two years ago, Harper said: "Imagine that after a century and a half, democracy will finally come to the Senate of Canada."

Strange for a guy who earlier proposed an elected Senate....

Not really. The Conservative desire for elected Senators comes from a feeling of imbalance in that chamber, rather than Harper's democratic leanings (I've long since abandoned the notion he cared anything about electoral reform, other than strengthening his own party's position.)

He would push for elected senators, but will make his placements as is his constitutional right, rather than let the Liberals/NDP step in and place their choices.

The Toronto Star makes their opinion made about Liberal notions of democracy;

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/551900

Shame on the Liberal party elite

Party bosses claim they are acting within the party's constitution, which has no provision for a one-person one-vote contest. In reality, though, they are hiding behind it.

In this era of instant communications and given the upheavals in Ottawa, the party bosses could have asked members to vote on the one-person one-vote issue, then staged a quick leadership contest.

If Ottawa can organize a national election in six weeks, why can't the Liberals act just as fast?

Candidates could have posted platforms online, a televised debate could have been arranged, Liberals could have voted via the Internet or at riding headquarters.

Regrettably, the bosses were having none of it.

Instead, the party now has an image of a secret "old boy's club," one that has outraged its rank-and-file members who have zero say in who heads the party. Indeed, the Liberals are the only major North American party that doesn't allow every member a vote on its leader.


I think this has more to do with the Liberal's financial state than anything else, but I'm sure their party apparatus could use more openness and transparency.

"Indeed, the Liberals are the only major North American party that doesn't allow every member a vote on its leader."???
Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats choose party leaders by mass vote of the membership. That's because a "party leader" is of no importance in a non-Westminster system, so nobody really cares who he is (I do know that Howard Dean has led the Democratic Party for several years, but could not name the Republican leader to save my life), and I believe it's pretty much as irrelevant who the "party leaders" are in Mexico as well.

The Toronto Star makes their opinion made about Liberal notions of democracy;

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/551900

Shame on the Liberal party elite

I think this has more to do with the Liberal's financial state than anything else, but I'm sure their party apparatus could use more openness and transparency.
The Liberals were caught between a rock and a hard place, but I still am less than enthusiastic about the way the Liberals chose the leader.