NationStates Jolt Archive


About Being Fat.

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Anti-Social Darwinism
23-11-2008, 23:37
There's this somewhat acrimonious thread about whether or not large people should be required to pay for two seats when travelling by air. It's turned into a large, nasty discussion about obesity and whether obese people cause there own disability. The answer is yes ... and no.

I am obese. I am also physically active. I also eat less than 1700 calories a day (I counted). I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable. Many obese people are in the same situation - otherwise healthy, just unable to lose the weight without, essentially, putting themselves in a self-made concentration camp. Some have actual physical problems that cause the weight gain and corresponding difficulty in losing it. Some are lazy - so are some thin people.

Calling us names, telling us how disgusting we are, attempting to make us feel worse than we already do - doesn't help. We know that obesity is dangerous. We know it's unattractive - we know, damn it. Instead of telling us something we already know, why don't you tell us a healthy way to lose the weight without eating food that tastes vile. Give us a way to lose without having to be miserable for life. You should know - we've tried everything - every diet, every exercise plan, everything short of surgery and illegal drugs - the results are questionable and impermanent. Some of my friends have even tried the surgery - with varying, dangerous and sometimes unpleasant results.

Be supportive, be productive, be pro-active. But stop slamming us for something that is much more difficult for us than it is for you - we live with it waking and sleeping. You only have to deal with it when you're in our company.
Conserative Morality
23-11-2008, 23:42
I agree.

Be supportive, be productive, be pro-active. But stop slamming us for something that is much more difficult for us than it is for you - we live with it waking and sleeping. You only have to deal with it when you're in our company.
Anyone who has to "deal with" being near someone who's overweight has serious problems. Namely that they're a bigot.
Poliwanacraca
23-11-2008, 23:44
I'm far from obese, but I agree with all of this. I've been trying for over a year now to successfully lose ten freaking pounds; I don't envy anyone trying to lose twenty or fifty or one hundred. People who act like you can just decide to lose weight and the pounds will magically melt away really don't know what they're talking about.
Damor
23-11-2008, 23:45
I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable. That can be said for people with, say, a heroin addiction as well. The withdrawal symptoms are horrible. Not really a very good reason not to go through it and end up with a better life.
I'm not convinced changing your lifestyle for the better would make you miserable for the rest of your life. People have adjusted to much worse things.
Smunkeeville
23-11-2008, 23:45
I'm obese and I have many obese friends, I've never ever seen any of them eat 40 Big Macs a day. Most of us eat the same foods the rest of you do, and the same amount you do.

I don't know why I'm so fat. I don't eat much and rarely do I eat bad things (save my trip to Philly where I totally ate cheese fries).

I'm probably more active than most of the thin people around me, and yet, my ass is huge.

It confounds.
AB Again
23-11-2008, 23:47
If you are consuming less than 1700 calories a day and you are not losing weight then either
a: you have some metabolic condition that should be treated; or
b: your lifestyle is too sedentary to be healthy.

I am not proposing that you should start an intensive exercise program, but simple change of attitude in daily activities could make a significant change. If it is less than half a mile then walk instead of using the car. If it is only one floor then climb the stairs instead of the escalator or elevator, etc. If you made this simple type of change - not putting yourself into a self made concentration camp - then you will start to burn more than 1700 calories a day - ergo you would lose weight.

Of course whether you want to lose weight is an entirely personal matter, and is for you to decide.
Poliwanacraca
23-11-2008, 23:51
If you are consuming less than 1700 calories a day and you are not losing weight then either
a: you have some metabolic condition that should be treated; or
b: your lifestyle is too sedentary to be healthy.

I am not proposing that you should start an intensive exercise program, but simple change of attitude in daily activities could make a significant change. If it is less than half a mile then walk instead of using the car. If it is only one floor then climb the stairs instead of the escalator or elevator, etc. If you made this simple type of change - not putting yourself into a self made concentration camp - then you will start to burn more than 1700 calories a day - ergo you would lose weight.

Of course whether you want to lose weight is an entirely personal matter, and is for you to decide.

Of course, there's also option (c) you're built small enough except for the extra weight that it's really hard to simultaneously get all the nutrients you need to be healthy and few enough calories to lose weight. Putting my stats into various diet websites pretty universally gives me results like the following: "To lose weight, you should eat fewer than 900 calories a day! (Note: never eat fewer than 1200 calories a day!)" It is a bit frustrating.
Smunkeeville
23-11-2008, 23:59
Of course, there's also option (c) you're built small enough except for the extra weight that it's really hard to simultaneously get all the nutrients you need to be healthy and few enough calories to lose weight. Putting my stats into various diet websites pretty universally gives me results like the following: "To lose weight, you should eat fewer than 900 calories a day! (Note: never eat fewer than 1200 calories a day!)" It is a bit frustrating.

I did a calculator, it wants me to eat 1000 calories a day to lose weight but not to eat less than 1200 calories a day.

Yay for being short! :rolleyes:
AB Again
24-11-2008, 00:04
Of course, there's also option (c) you're built small enough except for the extra weight that it's really hard to simultaneously get all the nutrients you need to be healthy and few enough calories to lose weight. Putting my stats into various diet websites pretty universally gives me results like the following: "To lose weight, you should eat fewer than 900 calories a day! (Note: never eat fewer than 1200 calories a day!)" It is a bit frustrating.

OK, I can see that this would be a problem. However any competent nutritionist (and I am not one) could plan a diet for you that would provide the essential nutrients and vitamins whilst keeping the calories down.
Beware of on-line calculators and the like. They work when the values are close to the mean values for body size etc. but can not cope with extremes (in any direction).
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 00:07
There's this somewhat acrimonious thread about whether or not large people should be required to pay for two seats when travelling by air. It's turned into a large, nasty discussion about obesity and whether obese people cause there own disability. The answer is yes ... and no.

I am obese. I am also physically active. I also eat less than 1700 calories a day (I counted). I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable. Many obese people are in the same situation - otherwise healthy, just unable to lose the weight without, essentially, putting themselves in a self-made concentration camp. Some have actual physical problems that cause the weight gain and corresponding difficulty in losing it. Some are lazy - so are some thin people.

Calling us names, telling us how disgusting we are, attempting to make us feel worse than we already do - doesn't help. We know that obesity is dangerous. We know it's unattractive - we know, damn it. Instead of telling us something we already know, why don't you tell us a healthy way to lose the weight without eating food that tastes vile. Give us a way to lose without having to be miserable for life. You should know - we've tried everything - every diet, every exercise plan, everything short of surgery and illegal drugs - the results are questionable and impermanent. Some of my friends have even tried the surgery - with varying, dangerous and sometimes unpleasant results.

Be supportive, be productive, be pro-active. But stop slamming us for something that is much more difficult for us than it is for you - we live with it waking and sleeping. You only have to deal with it when you're in our company.

Well, part of your problem seems to be that you associate reduced food intake with weight loss. If you're caloric intake is 1700 and you're active, that's almost certainly not enough food for you to keep an active metabolism.
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 00:14
If you are consuming less than 1700 calories a day and you are not losing weight then either
a: you have some metabolic condition that should be treated; or
b: your lifestyle is too sedentary to be healthy.

I am not proposing that you should start an intensive exercise program, but simple change of attitude in daily activities could make a significant change. If it is less than half a mile then walk instead of using the car. If it is only one floor then climb the stairs instead of the escalator or elevator, etc. If you made this simple type of change - not putting yourself into a self made concentration camp - then you will start to burn more than 1700 calories a day - ergo you would lose weight.

Of course whether you want to lose weight is an entirely personal matter, and is for you to decide.

Or... he's a healthy person whose metabolism reacts like human metabolism is supposed to and slows down because his caloric intake is too low.

I found this a lot when I was a trainer. I fairly frequently had to talk people into eating. People who are obese often have a poor relationship with food. Sometimes it's because of medical problems that make it a chore, as in Smunkee's case. Other times it's a dangerous cycle relating to their feelings about their body and self-worth.

Regardless, that poor relationship isn't only about eating too much or eating the wrong things. It can also be about refusing to eat when you need to, or not eating the right things at the right time.

When I first started talking to Kyronea he was quite unsuccessful and he'd already begun to excercise and lower his food intake. He eventually adjusted the way he was eating, how much he was eating, when he was eating, etc. He changed his relationship with food and he got healthier. A lot healthier. We all got to watch it happen.

He wasn't a "lazy pig". He was just having trouble sifting through the incredible amount of incorrect information that floats around about nutrition and excercise, often spread by people like you who just think they need someone who doesn't actually know what they're talking about to set them straight.

Do you also dispense advice on star travel or is this only subject you don't actually care if you know what you're talking about?
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 00:15
OK, I can see that this would be a problem. However any competent nutritionist (and I am not one) could plan a diet for you that would provide the essential nutrients and vitamins whilst keeping the calories down.
Beware of on-line calculators and the like. They work when the values are close to the mean values for body size etc. but can not cope with extremes (in any direction).

You're not? Then why are you talking?

(Not that you cannot have an opinion, but seriously, do not tell someone getting so few calories to continue as is, but to go on a vigorous excercise program. It's dangerous and idiotic.)
The Parthians
24-11-2008, 00:29
Have you spoken to an endocrinologist? I mean, if you're eating less than 2000 calories a day and regularly exercising, there is something else going on which is not under your control. I don't claim to be a doctor, but that could be indicative of a thyroid or pituitary gland problem. If it is, the only way to find out is to get some bloodwork, whereupon, if it is an imbalance in T3 or some other metabolic hormone, they can perscribe a replacement.

If you have, the only issue I can see is maybe lower than normal muscle mass. Building some of that could have a nice overall effect on your metabolism, though don't take it too seriously, just a bit should do the trick, assuming that it's what's going on. While I have lost some weight in the past, it's small potatoes compared to anything really drastic (15 pounds, total), most of that was done just by cutting fried food out of my life and a combination of intensive cardio and muscle building.
Whereyouthinkyougoing
24-11-2008, 00:36
Or... he's a healthy person whose metabolism reacts like human metabolism is supposed to and slows down because his caloric intake is too low.

^ That. Super common with women, in my experience. They're overweight, so they eat less, their metabolism slows down, they don't lose any weight (or maybe a few pounds in the beginning only to re-gain them right away), they eat even less... Often they'll do this for years so even going on an actual healthy weight-loss diet will cause them to gain weight at first. I've worked in Weight Watchers meetings for a while and we'd often have women come in who'd be quite a lot overweight and yet be totally overwhelmed by how much they had to eat to adhere to the plan.

Doesn't mean all overweight people eat too little, obviously, the majority probably eats too much, but it means that "eat less and work out more" isn't a panacea.
Myrmidonisia
24-11-2008, 00:38
You're not? Then why are you talking?

(Not that you cannot have an opinion, but seriously, do not tell someone getting so few calories to continue as is, but to go on a vigorous excercise program. It's dangerous and idiotic.)
Hey, anyone that takes advice from the internet about medical conditions is engaging in dangerous and idiotic behavior. But the advice to see a doc, would be very dull and not make for a very entertaining evening, would it?
Lunatic Goofballs
24-11-2008, 00:44
If losing weight were as easy as say... quitting smoking, there'd be a gum for it.

There are many factors involved with obesity and some are easier to answer than others. They don't all have me to chase them around. :)
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
24-11-2008, 00:44
I'd never automatically assume that a fat person is lazy or in any way less valuable than a thin person. Some people, especially women and older people, have a very difficult time losing weight, and others are essentially addicted to food and deserve the support that other addicts get.

I don't take my luck for granted when it comes to staying a proper weight - my height and size mean I burn an enormous number of calories just sitting here in a chair, and I'm bony at 220 lbs. I try to remember that before judging other people.
SaintB
24-11-2008, 00:48
I'm a larger person (taller, heavier bone structure, larger thicker muscles... and yes I am overwieght too...) some dieticians have set me at 2,000 calories per day to meet my ideal intake for energy... what am I supposed to do?

I lack the required energy brcause I don't eat enough sometimes... for awhile I was eating three meals a day regularly at regular intervals but because of changing conditions I had to stop doing that and gained almost all my wieght back :(, its not an easy thing to do...
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 00:51
Hey, anyone that takes advice from the internet about medical conditions is engaging in dangerous and idiotic behavior. But the advice to see a doc, would be very dull and not make for a very entertaining evening, would it?

How about just not dispensing advice unless you know what you're talking about?

I mean, you don't, generally, but there are plenty of others who do.
AB Again
24-11-2008, 01:28
You're not? Then why are you talking?

(Not that you cannot have an opinion, but seriously, do not tell someone getting so few calories to continue as is, but to go on a vigorous excercise program. It's dangerous and idiotic.)

And where, good sir, pray tell, did I say anything that could even remotely be interpreted as 'go on a vigorous excercise program' ? Or even to continue 'as is'.

What I commented is that if that person has an intake of 1700 calories - which is not extremely low by any standards, but is below the recommended average daily intake for an adult woman - is not losing weight, then they are probably being very sedentary. Now how is that dangerous advice? It is not advice at all.

The only comment I have made that can be considered to be advice was the comment about any competent dietitian being able to help - or do you consider that dangerous. Are dietitians the scourge of your life or something?
Pure Metal
24-11-2008, 01:29
i totally agree (with the OP), but i wouldn't suggest all obese people are totally without blame. many do have problems, certainly, but some do bring it upon themselves. myself, for example. i'm lazy and i like food too much, and tend to eat a lot of it. i have nothing else to blame or any other excuse, and i'm very aware of that. i don't eat all snack food or fast food - i actually eat fairly healthily with proper meals, lots of veg, and not too much snacking - but i eat too much of it. and yet having the willpower to fight against something i love so much is incredibly hard, and often simply something i don't want to do. very often, food becomes something comforting, when i feel either sweet things (like chocolate or cake) will help lift my spirits, or just lots of any food (binge eating) will do the trick. its times like that where one's willpower is really tested, due to this deeply psychological relationship with food. unfortunately, being obese is starting to affect my health negatively, so now its not just a case of wanting to do something about it, i now need to change.

little rant about my own experience with obesity there :wink:

Of course, there's also option (c) you're built small enough except for the extra weight that it's really hard to simultaneously get all the nutrients you need to be healthy and few enough calories to lose weight. Putting my stats into various diet websites pretty universally gives me results like the following: "To lose weight, you should eat fewer than 900 calories a day! (Note: never eat fewer than 1200 calories a day!)" It is a bit frustrating.
i was told at the gym that i could eat 2100 calories a day and maintain my weight due to my build and muscle/fat ratio, or something. iirc, less than 1500, they said, would mean weight loss. i really don't envy your situation :-S
That can be said for people with, say, a heroin addiction as well. The withdrawal symptoms are horrible. Not really a very good reason not to go through it and end up with a better life.
I'm not convinced changing your lifestyle for the better would make you miserable for the rest of your life. People have adjusted to much worse things.
i'm not sure starving yourself to take in <1000 calories a day counts as "changing your lifestyle for the better"

actually getting healthier, yes. but going cold turkey (oh what a pun) with food like that, as discussed here, isn't healthy at all.
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 02:02
Weight is an incredibly complex issue with a lot of contributing factors. If it was an easy formula, there wouldn't be fifteen hundred diets out there (for christ's sake, the blood type diet? really?).

Are there people who eat too much of the wrong thing and become obese? Yes. There are also people who eat too little of the right thing and have to go into hospitals. We only seem to pity the "thin" among the eating disordered, when most people with EDs have COE or BED (compulsive over-eating or binge eating disorder).

I'm lucky to come from a family of athletes who are naturally tall and slender. The things I shove in my mouth do not give me enough nutrition (I'm really trying to work on this) and would probably make a fair number of women my size obese. I don't exercise at all. Yet for whatever reason, I can eat a pint of Ben&Jerry's or three pieces of pizza and not become overweight. It DOES take some will power on my part--I usually try to eat less and more healthfully after eating poorly--but when you really get down to it, genetics saves my ass.

I'm certainly not going to make moral judgments on anyone else for their genetics.
Tygereyes
24-11-2008, 02:24
I am overweight. I think it is a genetic thing mostly at least my family tends to drift towards being overweight. You can try and yell at people to lose weight, I know I have, at a father who is grossly and morbidly obesse to stop eating too much but he doesn't listen. He says he's old and he's going to die anyway. *sighs* He enjoys eating. Frankly so do I. The comments about their being addiction to food, is so very true. It's hard to give up.

My family really isn't the proactive type as I've told you concerning my Dad, but I decided to become a bit more proactive in regards to my health and my weight problems. (Basically I woke up one day, didn't like the image in the mirror and went to work.) So the past five to six months I joined up with Weight Watchers and managed to drop 35 pounds. Now I still have a long way to go but trying to lose weight isn't easy. I've basically have had to change my whole outlook on food, in otherwords I try to limit my intake (calories), get a little more activity in when I can (Ie. I walk the dog). Is any of this easy? Hell no. But I feel better about myself and I am starting to notice that I have curves. :p
Quarkleflurg
24-11-2008, 02:35
I have heard of new research recently published (it was on a news report in the UK) stating that many of the pollutants we put into the atmosphere and the chemicals we put on (and into, such as growth hormones in animals) our foods may be responsible for being overweight as well as diet etc, I will try to find it tomorrow as I'm going to bed now.

my advice therefore would be to eat as organically as possible and as little meat as possible (this can actually taste better than crap food if you cook it right!) while finding exercise which is actually pleasurable to do - I enjoy climbing and cycling so they are my main form of exercise. going to the gym or swimming is usually dull so take up walking with friends or something like that - healthy but social.

another piece of advice which worked for a fat friend of mine was to change how you get to work, ditch the car and invest in a bike and that's two hours of good exercise a day already.
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 02:38
another piece of advice which worked for a fat friend of mine was to change how you get to work, ditch the car and invest in a bike and that's two hours of good exercise a day already.

I ride a bike and don't own a car. But I'm not advising anyone to do that purely for their health ... since it's actually quite dangerous to ride where there is traffic.

Losing weight is only going to be harder if you get knocked down and get a spinal injury.
Self-sacrifice
24-11-2008, 02:48
yeah weight is complicated but there are two simple methods to loose weight

1 eat better (less fat more fruit/vegies)
2 excercise more

In the end it is due to the lifestyle of the person. In the past there were less fat people because the food didnt contain as much sugar and fat and more physical work went into daily routines. The genetics havnt changed over the past 5 or so generations but the obesity has dramatically increased. The only thing that has really changed is the human likesyle.
Gauntleted Fist
24-11-2008, 03:04
I am obese. I am also physically active. I also eat less than 1700 calories a day (I counted). I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable. Many obese people are in the same situation - otherwise healthy, just unable to lose the weight without, essentially, putting themselves in a self-made concentration camp. I was obese as of two months ago, now I'm not. I'm only 'fat', not obese. I'm also very miserable, because of what I have to do to lose weight. I work-out three days a week, and eat less than 1700 calories a day. I also run three miles every day, and ride bike trails on the weekend. I don't eat candy, I don't eat fried food. I also do without salt on most foods. It's quite possibly the hardest thing I've done in my entire life.

But, two months later, and sixty pounds lighter, I feel a small sense of accomplishment. I also intend to lose another forty to eighty pounds.(So I can join the Army. :p)
The Cat-Tribe
24-11-2008, 03:16
@)#$^%&

It must be nice to live in a world in which everyone can control their weight and there are no diseases, genetics, or other factors beyond one's control that can cause obesity.

To bad we don't live in that world.
Intangelon
24-11-2008, 03:18
yeah weight is complicated but there are two simple methods to loose weight

1 eat better (less fat more fruit/vegies)
2 excercise more

In the end it is due to the lifestyle of the person. In the past there were less fat people because the food didnt contain as much sugar and fat and more physical work went into daily routines. The genetics havnt changed over the past 5 or so generations but the obesity has dramatically increased. The only thing that has really changed is the human likesyle.

There are trends, but no absolutes. Not every case of obesity is lifestyle-related, regardless of what you think.
Katganistan
24-11-2008, 03:19
@)#$^%&

It must be nice to live in a world in which everyone can control their weight and there are no diseases, genetics, or other factors beyond one's control that can cause obesity.

To bad we don't live in that world.
My sentiments exactly, TCT.

[off-topic]KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?[/off-topic]
The Song of Joy
24-11-2008, 03:22
I used to know a fat person. When he died, they had to cut off his arms and legs to fit him in the coffin, and even then it took quite a bit of pushing and three of us jumping up and down on the lid. I got blood all over my dress; it was terrible.
Gauntleted Fist
24-11-2008, 03:24
I used to know a fat person. When he died, they had to cut off his arms and legs to fit him in the coffin, and even then it took quite a bit of pushing and three of us jumping up and down on the lid. I got blood all over my dress; it was terrible.And that was terrible. I didn't even grin. You killed my joy, person.
Barringtonia
24-11-2008, 03:25
I used to know a fat person. When he died, they had to cut off his arms and legs to fit him in the coffin, and even then it took quite a bit of pushing and three of us jumping up and down on the lid. I got blood all over my dress; it was terrible.

You get used to it, first time is always the hardest.
SaintB
24-11-2008, 03:32
I used to know a fat person. When he died, they had to cut off his arms and legs to fit him in the coffin, and even then it took quite a bit of pushing and three of us jumping up and down on the lid. I got blood all over my dress; it was terrible.

I don't think that was as amusing as you thought it might be...
The Song of Joy
24-11-2008, 03:32
And that was terrible. I didn't even grin. You killed my joy, person.
I don't think that was as amusing as you thought it might be...
I'm sorry. I hate it when stories about death make people upset.
Gauthier
24-11-2008, 03:33
@)#$^%&

It must be nice to live in a world in which everyone can control their weight and there are no diseases, genetics, or other factors beyond one's control that can cause obesity.

To bad we don't live in that world.

Don't be silly, don't you know obesity, poverty, addiction, etc. are always the result of personal mental weakness? Why else would it be acceptable to dehumanize and insult the overweight, the poor, the addicted, et cetera?

:p
Tygereyes
24-11-2008, 03:34
I used to know a fat person. When he died, they had to cut off his arms and legs to fit him in the coffin, and even then it took quite a bit of pushing and three of us jumping up and down on the lid. I got blood all over my dress; it was terrible.

TMI. Way TMI.
SaintB
24-11-2008, 03:34
I'm sorry. I hate it when stories about death make people upset.

Well it didn't upset me but it didn't amuse me either... and it was very easy to tell it was totally untrue (fortunatly.)
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 04:04
And where, good sir, pray tell, did I say anything that could even remotely be interpreted as 'go on a vigorous excercise program' ? Or even to continue 'as is'.

What I commented is that if that person has an intake of 1700 calories - which is not extremely low by any standards, but is below the recommended average daily intake for an adult woman - is not losing weight, then they are probably being very sedentary. Now how is that dangerous advice? It is not advice at all.

The only comment I have made that can be considered to be advice was the comment about any competent dietitian being able to help - or do you consider that dangerous. Are dietitians the scourge of your life or something?

You're incorrect.

First, they told you they weren't sedentary.

Second, 1700 is quite low. As you point out, it's lower than recommended for the average woman. Good to know that before you start spewing nonsense about weightloss you checked at least that much out. Unfortunately, before telling someone what was wrong with them or what they should be doing, you didn't bother to read that they are already active, and already not getting enough calories.

So why aren't they losing weight? Because weightloss is more complicated. That's why it would be better if people are ignorant on the matter that they not try to tell people how it works.

The weight problem in our country is in no small part due to the likes of you who go around spewing crap they don't actually know.
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 04:07
@)#$^%&

It must be nice to live in a world in which everyone can control their weight and there are no diseases, genetics, or other factors beyond one's control that can cause obesity.

To bad we don't live in that world.

No, no. People just have to walk up stairs instead of taking the elevator and eat less than 1700 calories a day. Cuz, you know, weightloss can be summed up in a sentence. It's not like some people study it their whole lives.
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 04:18
I have friends who are obese but who also have perfect blood pressure, perfect heart rate, exercise, and are able to move easily and freely. They claim for themselves, reasonably imo, the right to either lose weight or not, as they please, because their weight is not having a bad effect on their health. I also have acquaintances who are obese and who very clearly have health problems of joint pain and injury, breathing problems, heart problems, and who lead unhealthy lifestyles of excessive drinking and eating and near total lack of physical activity, but who deny that their lifestyle contributes to their physical condition. I also know thin people who are constantly sick or injuring themselves, mostly due to lousy diet and/or a sedentary lifestyle that leaves them lacking in physical fitness, yet they often claim they are healthy based solely on their weight.

Now, as for me, technically, I am 30 pounds overweight for my itsy-bitsy little height. But, I have excellent muscle tone, am considerably more active than any non-athlete of my acquaintance, recently got a full medical check-up that confirmed healthy heart, lung and other organ function, cholesterol and other factors falling within "normal parameters," and the fluctuating blood pressure to be expected considering my family history. In addition, I am fortunate enough that I do not look anywhere near the weight I show on a scale.

My doctor, who was very pissed off that there was nothing wrong with me, told me, rather arbitrarily, that she wants me to lose 30 pounds in about 3 years to bring me down to "ideal" weight. I reacted by telling her that I don't own a scale and tend to go by dress sizes, and would a size 8 be acceptable? She said yes. Considering that I'm nearly at a size 10 now, after only half a year of moderate portion reduction and moderate increase in my usual daily yoga routine, I figure I can make that size 8 without having to lose 30 whole pounds.

So what I conclude from all these anecdotes is that there is no such thing as an "ideal" weight for everyone. Each individual has their own "ideal" weight and that should be measured by their overall health. Some people will be thin and healthy, others thin and sick. Some will be fat and healthy, others fat and sick. I don't really care what the scale says (and I really do not own one), as long as my body is functioning properly and I feel good and look the way I want to.
SaintB
24-11-2008, 04:22
No, no. People just have to walk up stairs instead of taking the elevator and eat less than 1700 calories a day. Cuz, you know, weightloss can be summed up in a sentence. It's not like some people study it their whole lives.

I have to eat 2,500+ calories a day to keep an energy level condusive to loosing wieght. Since I don't intake that many calories on a daily basis I am prone to being lethargic, making me prone to gaining more wieght when I eat less.

There is no simple solution, get it through your skull.
greed and death
24-11-2008, 04:25
I have to eat 2,500+ calories a day to keep an energy level condusive to loosing wieght. Since I don't intake that many calories on a daily basis I am prone to being lethargic, making me prone to gaining more wieght when I eat less.

There is no simple solution, get it through your skull.

i hear meth does wonders.
Dakini
24-11-2008, 04:26
For some people it isn't in their control, but others claim that it isn't in their control when it is. I had a roommate who was a bit heavy (not obese, but probably low plus sized) and she would complain about how she didn't eat much and exercised and all this... yet I lived with her and saw her eat twice as much as me at meals and would eat higher calorie food and much more junk. I'm not sure how much she exercised, but it couldn't have been very much because I never saw her with any sort of exercise gear or appropriate clothing for exercising and she never talked about going out and doing something like this.

I mean, I don't always eat in the most healthy manner, but I tend to walk a lot and when the weather is appropriate for it I play intramural sports (this fall it was ultimate frisbee, the summer was soccer) and when I know I can't do this, I try to snack extra healthy (i.e. I was cooped up in the office all weekend so I brought in hummus and carrots instead of chips or some other junk).

Also, it sounds to me that the opening poster is possibly not eating enough food. If you starve yourself your body is going to hold on to what it can.
Sarkhaan
24-11-2008, 04:28
While this might not help you lose weight, these are some decent tips for just generally being a little healthier (if you can do it)

Eating schedule: Always eat breakfast. Try to have 5 small-medium meals a day.

What you eat: try to get rid of as much additional fat and oil as you can. Know which oils are little healthier (olive, for example). Sub out sodas for water. If you love soda too much to cut it out, do a diet one. Fruit juice (not cocktail) is great...Naked makes some great ones (1 lb of fruit per container, according to the packaging). Water. Keep well hydrated. Grill instead of fry. If you like fried chicken and that kind of thing try this: bread a chicken breast with a little (1 tbsp) extra virgin olive oil mixed in to the bread crumbs. Broil for 5-10 minutes on each side...the bread crumbs will crisp up a bit.

Exercise. Take the stairs rather than an elevator or escalator. Walk more often...if you're going to the corner store, walk it.

Change your thinking about food: You don't have "cheat" or "binge" days. You don't do "good" or "bad". You eat how you eat. Making permanent changes, while difficult, is better and more consistant in the long run than treating food as a punishment. Less food and more exercise won't make you lose weight necessarily.

Figure out how your body works...what do you need? When are you actually hungry? Are you eating because you're bored? Maybe because you're dehydrated? Are you only eating untill you're satisfied, or are you eating more?



No, these things won't make everyone lose weight...but they are generally some good things to do. Can you have that chocolate cake? Sure. Just be conscious of it. Know what you put in to your body every day. I rarely eat chips...why? Because I've trained myself to look at them as an occasional treat rather than a food staple. Many of my friends eat them every day. Similarly, my roommates are more than willing to eat alot of processed foods...kraft mac and cheese and the like...I rarely have these because I prefer to make something a bit more healthy which I have more control over.

As always, it's a good idea to talk to your doctor about any diet and exercise programs.

I don't blame people for being obease...many could do something fairly simple to be more healthy, but then, so could most of us in some way. I, personally, prefer a very active life style, and tend to be surrounded by similar minded people, making it a bit easier.
Knights of Liberty
24-11-2008, 04:30
IMy doctor, who was very pissed off that there was nothing wrong with me, told me, rather arbitrarily, that she wants me to lose 30 pounds in about 3 years to bring me down to "ideal" weight. I reacted by telling her that I don't own a scale and tend to go by dress sizes, and would a size 8 be acceptable? She said yes. Considering that I'm nearly at a size 10 now, after only half a year of moderate portion reduction and moderate increase in my usual daily yoga routine, I figure I can make that size 8 without having to lose 30 whole pounds.


Why are you even humoring her?
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 04:30
I have to eat 2,500+ calories a day to keep an energy level condusive to loosing wieght. Since I don't intake that many calories on a daily basis I am prone to being lethargic, making me prone to gaining more wieght when I eat less.

There is no simple solution, get it through your skull.

You don't get sarcasm, huh?
Sarkhaan
24-11-2008, 04:31
For some people it isn't in their control, but others claim that it isn't in their control when it is. I had a roommate who was a bit heavy (not obese, but probably low plus sized) and she would complain about how she didn't eat much and exercised and all this... yet I lived with her and saw her eat twice as much as me at meals and would eat higher calorie food and much more junk. I'm not sure how much she exercised, but it couldn't have been very much because I never saw her with any sort of exercise gear or appropriate clothing for exercising.

I mean, I don't always eat in the most healthy manner, but I tend to walk a lot and when I know I can't do this, I try to snack extra healthy (i.e. I was cooped up in the office all weekend so I brought in hummus and carrots).
My roommates do the same thing...I cook most of the dinners for all 3 of us, so our major meal is identical except for portion sizes...they both continue to gain weight from fat, where I continue to build muscle and lose fat. Why? Because I keep my portions smaller, usually don't finish every last bite, and go to the gym regularly.

People tend to underestimate how much they actually eat.
Dakini
24-11-2008, 04:36
My roommates do the same thing...I cook most of the dinners for all 3 of us, so our major meal is identical except for portion sizes...they both continue to gain weight from fat, where I continue to build muscle and lose fat. Why? Because I keep my portions smaller, usually don't finish every last bite, and go to the gym regularly.

People tend to underestimate how much they actually eat.
Actually, I seem to read a study which found that skinny people tend to overestimate how much they eat while fatter people tended to underestimate this...

...although this is apparently a possible portion size issue, I can't read the whole article since there's a subscription behind it: http://www.nature.com/ncpendmet/journal/v2/n12/full/ncpendmet0336.html
Barringtonia
24-11-2008, 04:41
The relationship people have with food is odd, and differs a great deal between people. I know some people who seem to live for meals, their whole day seems structured around the next mealtime. Others seem hardly to care about eating, doing so more out of necessity than desire.

I'm not even sure either correlates to weight either, you can be obsessed with food and eat nothing or not care at all and eat constantly.
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 04:41
Why are you even humoring her?
I felt bad for her. She was so unhappy that I was healthy. :D

See, it was like this: I got bit by a feral cat (don't ask). So I had to go to an emergency room and get a tetanus shot and start the rabies series (which in the end I didn't have to finish because the cat was negative), only I had never been to see my primary care physician to get me established in my insurance company's system for purposes of emergency referrals. So, they put my on her patient list but made me do the whole introductory exam BS after I finished the treatment for the bite injury so they could complete all the paperwork.

So, when I went in and she asked me when I had last seen a doctor (before the bite) I told her "25 years ago," which was true. And she was, like, "are you shitting me?" So she absolutely refused to believe I could have gone that long without any medical check ups or care whatsoever and have nothing wrong with me. I told her I was fine, except for that mildly fluctuating BP, which mostly responded to stress levels, but she was, like, "I'll be the judge of that." She put me through the ringer, and when it was all over, she was, like, "bah, you healthy bitch," and I was sitting in her office while she stared miserably at my lab results on the computer screen and finally just said, "I think you should lose some weight. For your height, you should weigh closer to <amount>."

And I just felt bad for her, because she knew it was going to be another 25 years before I went to doctor again, so I just said, "Well, how about a size 8?"
Neu Leonstein
24-11-2008, 04:43
Kinda relevant:
http://news.smh.com.au/national/diabetics-skip-insulin-to-lose-weight-20081113-666j.html
Diabetics 'skip insulin to lose weight'

A third of type one diabetics dice with danger by skipping insulin injections to shed weight, an Australian study has found.

Research by Diabetes Australia Victoria has found that 33 per cent of patients skip insulin injections, with almost half doing so on a daily basis.

More than a quarter missed a dose every week.

Most admitted reducing their insulin dose in a risky bid to lose weight and gain control over their body.

Dr Phil Bergman, a specialist in type one diabetes and adolescent eating disorders at Monash Medical Centre in Melbourne, said that while many Australians are concerned about body image, these patients are twice as likely to have body image issues.

"Just like other Australians, people with type one diabetes have issues around body image and weight, particularly given the current focus on the growing number of Australians who are overweight or obese," Dr Bergman said.

"The difference is that people with type one diabetes have discovered a powerful but very risky weight-loss tool in that they simply skip their insulin."

He said the practice could lead to earlier than expected onset of diabetes complications and increased risk of death.
SaintB
24-11-2008, 04:43
You don't get sarcasm, huh?

Between lack of sleep and the content of more than one thread here, textual sarcasm seems to be a little bit hard to absorb.
Dakini
24-11-2008, 04:44
I felt bad for her. She was so unhappy that I was healthy. :D

See, it was like this: I got bit by a feral cat (don't ask). So I had to go to an emergency room and get a tetanus shot and start the rabies series (which in the end I didn't have to finish because the cat was negative), only I had never been to see my primary care physician to get me established in my insurance company's system for purposes of emergency referrals. So, they put my on her patient list but made me do the whole introductory exam BS after I finished the treatment for the bite injury so they could complete all the paperwork.

So, when I went in and she asked me when I had last seen a doctor (before the bite) I told her "25 years ago," which was true. And she was, like, "are you shitting me?" So she absolutely refused to believe I could have gone that long without any medical check ups or care whatsoever and have nothing wrong with me. I told her I was fine, except for that mildly fluctuating BP, which mostly responded to stress levels, but she was, like, "I'll be the judge of that." She put me through the ringer, and when it was all over, she was, like, "bah, you healthy bitch," and I was sitting in her office while she stared miserably at my lab results on the computer screen and finally just said, "I think you should lose some weight. For your height, you should weigh closer to <amount>."

And I just felt bad for her, because she knew it was going to be another 25 years before I went to doctor again, so I just said, "Well, how about a size 8?"
I'm not sure how old you are now... but eventually seeing a doctor regularly becomes a good idea.

Hell, all women over 18 are supposed to see a doctor once a year for a check up.
Sarkhaan
24-11-2008, 04:45
Actually, I seem to read a study which found that skinny people tend to overestimate how much they eat while fatter people tended to underestimate this...

...although this is apparently a possible portion size issue, I can't read the whole article since there's a subscription behind it: http://www.nature.com/ncpendmet/journal/v2/n12/full/ncpendmet0336.htmlInteresting.

I've never been one to keep track of caloric intake or really write down what I eat (though sometimes I am curious). I eat when I'm hungry. I stop when I'm full. I have a constant mental process behind what I'm eating and how it is prepared. It seems that my roommates don't. We'll have a bag of chips out on the table, and I might grab a handful, where as they'll house the bag without even noticing or thinking about it.
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 04:50
I'm not sure how old you are now... but eventually seeing a doctor regularly becomes a good idea.

Hell, all women over 18 are supposed to see a doctor once a year for a check up.
I'm 45.

And my current doctor hates me. The doctors I saw 25 years ago (plural because I was seeing them due to a serious illness) agreed that I was right to avoid seeing doctors unless I was actually sick. One of them went so far as to declare that the more I stayed away from doctors, the longer I would live. :D

I do not hold to the boilerplate "at age X, you should get Y tests/treatments Z times/year" rule. Just like healthy weight, I believe this depends on each individual's own health issues.
DogDoo 7
24-11-2008, 04:51
I went into college 6-1 and 205 lbs. After my freshman year I weighed 250lbs. (Thank you Cheesesteaks, Pizza, Beer, and Weed). I lost 20lbs in August before my 2nd year and then proceeded to put on an additional 50 lbs. I lost another 20 lbs in the fall (I couldn't afford delivery). This summer, I decided to really change my diet. I'm now 6-2 and 190lbs, although I don't exercise nearly as much as I should. I also have to constantly monitor how much I eat as I am a plate-cleaner (it was how I was raised). I can still eat astoundingly large amounts if I so choose to, and its always a battle to avoid going back for seconds in order to give my brain time to catch up with my stomach. I can see my penis now and my stretch marks have turned into tiny flaps of skin.
Dakini
24-11-2008, 04:53
Interesting.

I've never been one to keep track of caloric intake or really write down what I eat (though sometimes I am curious). I eat when I'm hungry. I stop when I'm full. I have a constant mental process behind what I'm eating and how it is prepared. It seems that my roommates don't. We'll have a bag of chips out on the table, and I might grab a handful, where as they'll house the bag without even noticing or thinking about it.
I don't keep track of these things either. I keep meaning to (sometimes I'll have digestive issues and I suspect it's something I eat but I never know what it is that causes this because I don't keep track)... and I know that if I put a bag of chips on the table or on my desk, I'll eat the entire thing. But this is why I don't put the entire bag of chips out on the table. I grab a bowl and put some chips in it and then put the bag of chips away and sit down. This isn't just a thing where omgz, I don't want to get fat... it's also because my favourite chips happen to be salt and vinegar and they hurt my mouth if I eat too many in one sitting. :S

But then usually when I'm eating a meal, I'll put a little food on my plate and eat it and then wait a bit and if I'm still hungry, I'll go get more. It never hurts to make a second trip if your first portion was relatively small.
The Mindset
24-11-2008, 04:54
Fatties do not gain any sympathy from me. This is not going to change. I have little interest in direct insults, but I must admit I hold a general disdain for them. I don't even care if they claim it's outside their control. It doesn't matter, fat is fat.
Dakini
24-11-2008, 04:56
I'm 45.

And my current doctor hates me. The doctors I saw 25 years ago (plural because I was seeing them due to a serious illness) agreed that I was right to avoid seeing doctors unless I was actually sick. One of them went so far as to declare that the more I stayed away from doctors, the longer I would live. :D

I do not hold to the boilerplate "at age X, you should get Y tests/treatments Z times/year" rule. Just like healthy weight, I believe this depends on each individual's own health issues.
I don't think I've ever seen a doctor who has lectured me about anything... but it always seems like a good idea to get regular check ups to me to make sure that everything is ok (sometimes when something is wrong, it's wrong gradually and we don't notice). *shrugs*
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 04:58
Fatties do not gain any sympathy from me. This is not going to change. I have little interest in direct insults, but I must admit I hold a general disdain for them. I don't even care if they claim it's outside their control. It doesn't matter, fat is fat.

I feel the saem way about stupid people. So if I was fat, we'd be even.
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 04:58
I don't keep track of these things either. I keep meaning to (sometimes I'll have digestive issues and I suspect it's something I eat but I never know what it is that causes this because I don't keep track)... and I know that if I put a bag of chips on the table or on my desk, I'll eat the entire thing. But this is why I don't put the entire bag of chips out on the table. I grab a bowl and put some chips in it and then put the bag of chips away and sit down. This isn't just a thing where omgz, I don't want to get fat... it's also because my favourite chips happen to be salt and vinegar and they hurt my mouth if I eat too many in one sitting. :S

But then usually when I'm eating a meal, I'll put a little food on my plate and eat it and then wait a bit and if I'm still hungry, I'll go get more. It never hurts to make a second trip if your first portion was relatively small.
That's why I only buy small bags of chips and only when I am in the mood to eat some. If I can't be bothered to go to the store to buy chips, then I don't crave them enough.
Sarkhaan
24-11-2008, 04:58
I don't keep track of these things either. I keep meaning to (sometimes I'll have digestive issues and I suspect it's something I eat but I never know what it is that causes this because I don't keep track)... and I know that if I put a bag of chips on the table or on my desk, I'll eat the entire thing. But this is why I don't put the entire bag of chips out on the table. I grab a bowl and put some chips in it and then put the bag of chips away and sit down. This isn't just a thing where omgz, I don't want to get fat... it's also because my favourite chips happen to be salt and vinegar and they hurt my mouth if I eat too many in one sitting. :S

But then usually when I'm eating a meal, I'll put a little food on my plate and eat it and then wait a bit and if I'm still hungry, I'll go get more. It never hurts to make a second trip if your first portion was relatively small.

That's something I've noticed too...my roommates eat much faster than I do...they finish their larger portions (and sometimes seconds of the side dish) before I've finished my smaller one. I have no doubt that has something to do with it.

Also, I know exactly what kills my stomach, but suicide buffalo wings, whiskey, and beer are just too damn good to pass up, damnit! I'll take my heartburn with pride.
Barringtonia
24-11-2008, 04:59
Proper nutrition is the key, and creating that relationship when young is also important. If the brain is not trained to reward you with eating the right food then there'll be problems. I'd lay 90% of obesity issues with poor diet in childhood, not helped by the lack of nutrients in vegetables that are picked early then ripened artificially or meat that is battery farmed under artifical lighting and more.

Good nutrition should release dopamine, leaving you satisfied, poor nutrition means that no matter how much you eat, you're not getting what you need.

Most food in our supermarkets sure look pretty and shiny in that plastic wrapping but they're low on actual nutrition due to the way they're produced, even where one thinks one's buying the healthy option.
Dakini
24-11-2008, 05:02
That's why I only buy small bags of chips and only when I am in the mood to eat some. If I can't be bothered to go to the store to buy chips, then I don't crave them enough.
Yeah, I rarely buy chips. It's something that happens when I'm at the grocery store, they're on sale and I feel like carrying a large (but light) item home with my shopping.
Dakini
24-11-2008, 05:03
Most food in our supermarkets sure look pretty and shiny in that plastic wrapping but they're low on actual nutrition due to the way they're produced, even where one thinks one's buying the healthy option.

The advantage of being a vegetarian who lives near a farmer's market?
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 05:06
I don't think I've ever seen a doctor who has lectured me about anything... but it always seems like a good idea to get regular check ups to me to make sure that everything is ok (sometimes when something is wrong, it's wrong gradually and we don't notice). *shrugs*
That's what my doctor was hoping for, I guess (not really hoping; I'm teasing the poor woman in absentia).

What I'm trying to say is that there is no one-size-fits-all system. The frequency of recommended check-ups/tests is determined by insurance companies for their own convenience, and there will always be some people who do not fit into their cubbyholes. Some people's optimal health will be achieved at higher weights, others' at lower weights. Some people's weight is due to factors other than body fat, such as muscle density (which is why I look much thinner than I "should" for my weight). For many people, regular check ups will catch such things as cancer and diabetes at early stages. But then there are people like me, who have a family history of no long term, degenerative or chronic diseases but a strong family history of sudden onset conditions late in life that prove fatal with no prior symptoms at all (we mostly die of strokes or sudden organ failure in our 80s/90s after acing medical checkups right up to the point where we are hospitalized and then dead less than a month later; I am a very low risk of heart disease, diabetes or cancer, but a very high risk of stroke).
G3N13
24-11-2008, 05:08
yeah weight is complicated but there are two simple methods to loose weight

1 eat better (less fat more fruit/vegies)
Eat less carbohydrates.

Eating fat by itself doesn't cause obesity unless you're consuming more energy than expending.

Carbohydrates, white bread, pasta, etc.., are an excellent source of energy for your body. They're easily digestable and are a source of easily accessible energy for the body. This is why overeating them is so "dangerous" if you want to lose fat: Carbohydrate metabolism replaces fat burning as a source of energy - Hence you're not losing stored weight if your diet consists of carbohydrates.
2 excercise more
Exercise is overrated in terms of weight loss - Exercise *is* good for you but unless you're willing to do 1-2 hour work outs every day it is not the exercise that's causing the loss of weight.

Furthermore, exercising while dieting has a high risk of causing muscle athropy - ie. muscles start using muscle tissue as fuel - if you don't eat enough easily accessible energy (alcohol, carbohydrates, etc..), this causes muscles to burn less calories overall.


Personally, I don't think being overweight is an issue if you're in good shape otherwise.
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 05:09
So what I conclude from all these anecdotes is that there is no such thing as an "ideal" weight for everyone. Each individual has their own "ideal" weight and that should be measured by their overall health. Some people will be thin and healthy, others thin and sick. Some will be fat and healthy, others fat and sick. I don't really care what the scale says (and I really do not own one), as long as my body is functioning properly and I feel good and look the way I want to.

I would like to have that relationship with my body and health. Most people would probably consider me "slender", but my cholesterol ratio is bad (overall cholesterol is okay) and I couldn't run a mile if wild dogs were chasing me. Yet my OB/GYN, who of all people told me I needed to lose weight about 25 pounds ago, was completely pleased when I lost 35 pounds in about four months (taking me down to officially "underweight" for my height). There was nothing medically wrong with me before--I wasn't even "overweight" technically. But thinner, for her, meant healthier.

Funny story, she never asked me how I shed the accumulated pounds so quickly after adding them in college. I'm sure she'd be enthused to know I was bulimic for two years. >_<
Dakini
24-11-2008, 05:10
That's why my doctor was hoping for, I guess (not really hoping; I'm teasing the poor woman in absentia).

What I'm trying to say is that there is no one-size-fits-all system. The frequency of recommended check-ups/tests is determined by insurance companies for their own convenience, and there will always be some people who do not fit into their cubbyholes. Some people's optimal health will be achieved at higher weights, others' at lower weights. Some people's weight is due to factors other than body fat, such as muscle density (which is why I look much thinner than I "should" for my weight). For many people, regular check ups will catch such things as cancer and diabetes at early stages. But then there are people like me, who have a family history of no long term, degenerative or chronic diseases but a strong family history of sudden onset conditions late in life that prove fatal with no prior symptoms at all (we mostly die of strokes or sudden organ failure in our 80s/90s after acing medical checkups right up to the point where we are hospitalized and then dead less than a month later).
...my insurance company is the government... they're willing to pay for me to get a physical once a year so I do it (although I'm late on it this year). But I do see your point.
Barringtonia
24-11-2008, 05:11
The advantage of being a vegetarian who lives near a farmer's market?

The advantage of being brought up on a farm, disadvantage being that when my mother said 'go get me a chicken', it didn't simply entail heading to the fridge, it meant going out into the yard and getting a damn chicken.
Yootopia
24-11-2008, 05:15
I recommend smoking as a way to lose weight. Used to be overweight. Am now alright.
G3N13
24-11-2008, 05:20
I recommend smoking as a way to lose weight. Used to be overweight. Am now alright.
I recommend alcohol diet.

Just remove fats and carbohydrates, take a vitamin pill in the morning and you're good to go for weight loss.
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 05:21
I would like to have that relationship with my body and health. Most people would probably consider me "slender", but my cholesterol ratio is bad (overall cholesterol is okay) and I couldn't run a mile if wild dogs were chasing me. Yet my OB/GYN, who of all people told me I needed to lose weight about 25 pounds ago, was completely pleased when I lost 35 pounds in about four months (taking me down to officially "underweight" for my height). There was nothing medically wrong with me before--I wasn't even "overweight" technically. But thinner, for her, meant healthier.

Funny story, she never asked me how I shed the accumulated pounds so quickly after adding them in college. I'm sure she'd be enthused to know I was bulimic for two years. >_<
Gods, that is a horror story. I really feel bad for you and angry at that doctor. I wish there was any way my anger could magically make any part of that history better for you. Seriously, I can hardly believe that an accredited physician would have done that. I mean, I can believe it, because I've had friends with similar stories, but it still shocks me.

...my insurance company is the government... they're willing to pay for me to get a physical once a year so I do it (although I'm late on it this year). But I do see your point.
I was lucky that, back when I had that serious illness that made me go to doctors 25 years ago, I saw a team of doctors headed up by the primary care physician who had also been PCP to my grandmother, mother, and grandfather for many years, so he had a better understanding of what my likely risks were than most doctors nowadays have for their patients. Plus his judgment was bolstered by the tests they put me through when they were treating me. It's a story I've told before, the one that ended with the PCP telling me to quit my job and break up with my boyfriend, which instantly cured all the bizarre symptoms that hung stubbornly on after the main lung infection was cleared up.
Yootopia
24-11-2008, 05:22
I recommend alcohol diet.
250 calories in a pint, 'nuff said.
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 05:23
I recommend smoking as a way to lose weight. Used to be overweight. Am now alright.

I recommend alcohol diet.

Just remove fats and carbohydrates, take a vitamin pill in the morning and you're good to go for weight loss.
Or there's that classic old diet program: Get the flu while spending a month in Egypt.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 05:31
I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable.


It's possible to balance it out with more normal meals over the weekends so long as you don't go overboard. Oh, and a small piece of really dark chocolate per day during the weekdays when the diet is running. It helps keep the misery away.

It's not so much the calories really, but you do want to cut out the oils, fatty meats and sugar. Boiling is a good way to prepare dishes with lean meat like chicken, or baking and then draining the fat/oil before eating. If possible, replace poultry and other meat types with fish. Eggs are alright, soft or hard boiled, but don't overdo them. Try to keep carbohydrates low, wheat bread and similar will last longer in your stomach than plain white. Green vegetables like bok choy are excellent sources of fiber and will help fill you up.

Work out wise, well that differs for people, and I find that it doesn't affect me as much compared to the current diet, but in my case, it's a 3km run under 10 minutes, some light/medium upper body and arm exercises, followed with 300 sit ups, again under 10 minutes.

Depending on how you've run the diet, weight loss can be anywhere from modest to huge in a short amount of time. In my case, it's about 17kg in 4 months so far.
G3N13
24-11-2008, 05:34
It's not so much the calories really, but you do want to cut out the oils, fatty meats and sugar.

Fat doesn't make you fat.

It's the carbohydrates that do that: Bread (especially white bread with low fiber content), pasta, sugar (100% carbohydrate), etc..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbohydrate_diet
http://runningnetworkarchives.com/runwashington/tips/carbofat.html

edit:
Ultimately though, gaining weight is a question of consuming more energy than expending. Losing weight vice versa. And fat has higher energy content than carbohydrates, so remember kids: In moderation. ;)
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 05:37
Fat doesn't make you fat.

It's the carbohydrates that do that: Bread (especially white bread with low fiber content), pasta, sugar (100% carbohydrate), etc..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbohydrate_diet

No, cutting out or minimizing the fat is just general good health. You'd be surprised to find out that seemingly skinny people have cholesterol problems.
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 05:39
That's something I've noticed too...my roommates eat much faster than I do...they finish their larger portions (and sometimes seconds of the side dish) before I've finished my smaller one. I have no doubt that has something to do with it.

This is definitely part of my problem. I was raised by a family of fast-eaters with the constant chant of "essen! essen! essen!" ringing in my ears. I eat more quickly than anyone I know, and I know by the time I finish my stomach is just beginning to register that it's been fed and send those signals to my brain. In college, especially during the last two years, I nearly always ate to the point of physical discomfort. It's a wonder I wasn't heavier than I was.
G3N13
24-11-2008, 05:40
No, cutting out or minimizing the fat is just general good health. You'd be surprised to find out that seemingly skinny people have cholesterol problems.

Fats and cholesterol are also necessary ingredients for healthy human being.

Too little is as harmful as too much.

Same goes for salt too.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
24-11-2008, 05:42
This is definitely part of my problem. I was raised by a family of fast-eaters with the constant chant of "essen! essen! essen!" ringing in my ears. I eat more quickly than anyone I know, and I know by the time I finish my stomach is just beginning to register that it's been fed and send those signals to my brain. In college, especially during the last two years, I nearly always ate to the point of physical discomfort. It's a wonder I wasn't heavier than I was.

In my family, we called that having a "boarding house reach" around the table. :tongue: (Also, you're German?)
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 05:42
Fats and cholesterol are also necessary ingredients for healthy human being.

Too little is as harmful as too much.

Same goes for salt too.

Obviously, but you do get some of the two from meats, eggs and fish. I didn't say cut them out totally, just go for the lean versions for the meat, or replace with fish.
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 05:43
Fats and cholesterol are also necessary ingredients for healthy human being.

Too little is as harmful as too much.

Same goes for salt too.

I'm so glad that I have freakishly low blood pressure and my heart doctor tells me NOT to reduce my salt intake. I love salt so much (although I've stopped adding it to as many things).
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 05:46
In my family, we called that having a "boarding house reach" around the table. :tongue: (Also, you're German?)

My grandmother's German... I don't know why my parents always said it in German, but they did. "Essen! Essen!", "Rausen! (sp?)", "Schnell! Schnell!" ...I think they just liked to boss me around in Deutsch.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 05:47
@)#$^%&

It must be nice to live in a world in which everyone can control their weight and there are no diseases, genetics, or other factors beyond one's control that can cause obesity.

To bad we don't live in that world.

Mass doesn't pop into existence out of thin air TCT. Yes, genetics, disease and similar factors certainly can contribute to your body mass, but for that to happen, you've got to have intake so the factors have something to work with.
Sarkhaan
24-11-2008, 05:50
This is definitely part of my problem. I was raised by a family of fast-eaters with the constant chant of "essen! essen! essen!" ringing in my ears. I eat more quickly than anyone I know, and I know by the time I finish my stomach is just beginning to register that it's been fed and send those signals to my brain. In college, especially during the last two years, I nearly always ate to the point of physical discomfort. It's a wonder I wasn't heavier than I was.

When I was in high school, life was very fast paced, so I would grab dinner when I could...usually in under 10 minutes before I had to be out the door. I was probably saved by the fact that my mom is a nurse and dad is a doctor, and both are vegitarians, so the food was healthy. When I got to college, suddenly my friends and I would sit in the dining hall for an hour...at first I just kept getting more helpings, but would feel sick after, so I just learned to slow my eating down. My roommates never learned that lesson, and would usually just keep eating untill we left...and while the initial meal may have been healthy (say, chicken or turkey or pork), the rest wasn't (fries, ice cream, cup cakes). Even when the rest of the food was healthier, it was still beyond what the body could possibly use.
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 05:53
When I was in high school, life was very fast paced, so I would grab dinner when I could...usually in under 10 minutes before I had to be out the door. I was probably saved by the fact that my mom is a nurse and dad is a doctor, and both are vegitarians, so the food was healthy. When I got to college, suddenly my friends and I would sit in the dining hall for an hour...at first I just kept getting more helpings, but would feel sick after, so I just learned to slow my eating down. My roommates never learned that lesson, and would usually just keep eating untill we left...and while the initial meal may have been healthy (say, chicken or turkey or pork), the rest wasn't (fries, ice cream, cup cakes). Even when the rest of the food was healthier, it was still beyond what the body could possibly use.

They installed a nacho cheese machine in my dining hall junior year. That was pretty much the nail in the coffin. I ate nachos, like, twice a day, every day. So I was heavy AND nutritionally starved and exhausted!
Dimesa
24-11-2008, 05:53
I have to remember to eat or I'll fade away and get a really bony, disgusting face. Btw, it's just as silly to complain about those insulting fat people as it is to broadly insult fat people.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
24-11-2008, 05:55
My grandmother's German... I don't know why my parents always said it in German, but they did. "Essen! Essen!", "Rausen! (sp?)", "Schnell! Schnell!" ...I think they just liked to boss me around in Deutsch.

Aha, that's cool - raus means out or back or away, depending on the context. I miss those chaotic dinners with relatives from the Old Country myself. :tongue:
G3N13
24-11-2008, 05:58
Obviously, but you do get some of the two from meats, eggs and fish. I didn't say cut them out totally, just go for the lean versions for the meat, or replace with fish.
That's true....however, even the "bad" fat can be a source of energy, especially if the diet is low-carb.

One thing I've found out about dietary recommendations is that they're akin to economy: Governed by the rules of arcane rather than well founded experimental study. Or rather the studies contradict each other and every few years a new nutrient scare makes the headlines (anyone recall the eggs are necessarily bad for you thing?).

In anycase, fat is necessary for nervous system (as is salt), OTOH there are "good" and "bad" fats but eating too much of either is bad for you.

edit:
My point? High fat diet is generally healthier than high carbohydrate diet assuming we're talking about similar levels of energy intake.

edit2:
I'm also somewhat overweight and ascribe to absolutely no dietary guidelines beyond what I would like to eat next :tongue:
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 06:03
Aha, that's cool - raus means out or back or away, depending on the context. I miss those chaotic dinners with relatives from the Old Country myself. :tongue:

Yes, that's it then. Usually said with much arm-waving to get me out the door. I find myself saying this too frequently to my kindergarteners. :p

Dinners with extended family almost always seemed to involve disgusting Basque food as well, so I don't miss that! I'm not Basque, but much of my family lives in Bakersfield. I am traumatized forever by plates of cow tongue and eyeballs. :(
Sarkhaan
24-11-2008, 06:09
They installed a nacho cheese machine in my dining hall junior year. That was pretty much the nail in the coffin. I ate nachos, like, twice a day, every day. So I was heavy AND nutritionally starved and exhausted!

...I'm so jealous. I want one now. I love me some cheesy nachos.

We actually used to steal tortilla chips and take huge ammounts of cheese from the salad line to make our own nachos for dessert.

Worst I did was the occasional soft serve ice cream or a waffle. The desserts were never that good.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
24-11-2008, 06:10
Yes, that's it then. Usually said with much arm-waving to get me out the door. I find myself saying this too frequently to my kindergarteners. :p

Dinners with extended family almost always seemed to involve disgusting Basque food as well, so I don't miss that! I'm not Basque, but much of my family lives in Bakersfield. I am traumatized forever by plates of cow tongue and eyeballs. :(

Aha, so that's what that's about - we have a big Basque population here too. I'll have to be careful reading the menu if I can finally remember to visit their carnival this year. :tongue:
Jocabia
24-11-2008, 06:18
Mass doesn't pop into existence out of thin air TCT. Yes, genetics, disease and similar factors certainly can contribute to your body mass, but for that to happen, you've got to have intake so the factors have something to work with.

Again, you fail. Seriously, when you don't know what you're talking about... don't talk. Nobody wants to smell the stuff you pull out of your ass.

I find it so frustrating that every idiot on the internet is a diet expert.

Being fat is not directly caused by overeating. Some people who are fat UNDEREAT. That means if they INCREASE their intake all other factors being the same they will lose weight.

Sometimes they're eating exactly the right amount and WHEN they eat is the factor.

Saying it's about "intake" is ignorant. Frankly, the reason there is a problem with diet in the western world is that people who don't know what they're talking about (or do and lie about it) have too much of a voice.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 06:43
Again, you fail. Seriously, when you don't know what you're talking about... don't talk. Nobody wants to smell the stuff you pull out of your ass.

I find it so frustrating that every idiot on the internet is a diet expert.

Being fat is not directly caused by overeating. Some people who are fat UNDEREAT. That means if they INCREASE their intake all other factors being the same they will lose weight.

Sometimes they're eating exactly the right amount and WHEN they eat is the factor.

Saying it's about "intake" is ignorant. Frankly, the reason there is a problem with diet in the western world is that people who don't know what they're talking about (or do and lie about it) have too much of a voice.

So you're saying the human body can violate physical law and generate mass and energy from nothing? How very curious.

You do realize I specified intake. I didn't say how much and I certainly didn't say it played the sole role. If you stopped eating altogether, you wouldn't gain any mass, unless you gained a bad case of worm infestation.

Silly, silly, Jocabia.
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 07:03
Aha, so that's what that's about - we have a big Basque population here too. I'll have to be careful reading the menu if I can finally remember to visit their carnival this year. :tongue:

Oh, do your research. Some of it is absolutely revolting. Of course, I detest most seafood that isn't sushi, so that kills a lot of it for me, but seriously... cow tongue? Barnacles? Oxtail soup?
Dyakovo
24-11-2008, 07:08
Oh, do your research. Some of it is absolutely revolting. Of course, I detest most seafood that isn't sushi, so that kills a lot of it for me, but seriously... cow tongue? Barnacles? Oxtail soup?

What's wrong with cow tongue?
OK, another good question is what's right with cow tongue, but what the hell...
Yootopia
24-11-2008, 07:09
Oh, do your research. Some of it is absolutely revolting. Of course, I detest most seafood that isn't sushi, so that kills a lot of it for me, but seriously... cow tongue? Barnacles? Oxtail soup?
Oxtail soup is great, and prawn curries are ace, as is fish in general.
G3N13
24-11-2008, 07:20
So you're saying the human body can violate physical law and generate mass and energy from nothing? How very curious.
Well, technically your body could gather water and other fluids and hence you would gain mass while spending more energy than your intake is... :p

However, there's some truth to the claim: When you consume less your body tends to expend less. When you add in the fact that exercise doesn't burn nearly as much energy as most people think you can theoretically argue that eating less doesn't automatically mean you lose weight even though you'd exercise relatively lot..

Even though most of the time eating less has more significant impact to body weight than exercising more.
Ryadn
24-11-2008, 07:36
What's wrong with cow tongue?
OK, another good question is what's right with cow tongue, but what the hell...

Oxtail soup is great, and prawn curries are ace, as is fish in general.

You both have serious issues.
Yootopia
24-11-2008, 07:41
You both have serious issues.
What, an overdose of good taste or something?
Stoklomolvi
24-11-2008, 07:48
I envy those who can gain weight without overstuffing themselves. I, for one, hate being skinny like that fellow who starved for a week while eating normally. I look malnourished (I somewhat am, though not in the extreme sense) and am pathetically weak.

There's nothing wrong with being fat. Unless, of course, you're mean and fat. Then again, that would have more to do with you being mean than you being fat. Being fat is better than being thin in many situations, as was once proven by the guys at Brainiac (who are, in my opinion, somewhat meh). Ugh, I rarely watch TV. TV has nothing interesting on it. Except for occasional Fox News broadcasts. Those things are freaking hilarious. Maybe Republicans like to watch Fox because Fox appeals to their ideas. Yeah, that's it. Though I wonder if Republicans are fat because they watch TV all day. Or maybe Democrats are. I don't know. What if Republicans and Democrats are fat because they sit around debating? Nah, that would be lame. As lame as filibustering. Filibustering should be illegal. Like recreational marijuana. It makes people hungry and stoned. Stoned is bad. Hungry, not as bad. I mean, being too hungry may make you eat a lot, and eating a lot may make you fat, but what's wrong with being fat?
Dyakovo
24-11-2008, 08:00
You both have serious issues.

You're just figuring that out?
Fatimah
24-11-2008, 08:47
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060925054536.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071204163249.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/12/031217073942.htm

People have gotten so stupid about the whole issue of weight, health, and fitness. They can't even discern between the three. You've got these twits over here saying that thinness is the same as fitness, and those bozos over there saying that fatness equals bad health.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77367764@N00/sets/72157602199008819/

It's true that exercise is important, but some of the same yahoos waxing troglodyte about fat people are sitting on their bony butts on their sofas eating Cheetos and drinking full-sugar Mountain Dew. You better bet good nutrition is important, but nobody can seem to agree on what good nutrition MEANS.

http://www.westonaprice.org/

And calorie theory is quackery. I can eat 1500-2000 calories a day of "healthy" crap, and gain fifty pounds. In fact, I gained about the last fifty pounds of MY obesity eating vegan! But I can turn it around and eat high-fat, moderate-protein, low-carb, almost 3000 calories a day and LOSE weight. It's really freaking difficult, people keep telling me how UNHEALTHY it is (oh? but I'm losing weight? Isn't that healthy?) and it's not easy to find good food choices when I go out to eat without having to stick with meat and salad, and even then, who knows what they put in it? They'll put sugar in salad dressing (which you need, full-fat, to assimilate the fat-soluble vitamins in greens). It's insane. But there you go.

When I was 130, I couldn't beat the guys away with a stick. Now that I've put on 100 pounds over the last thirteen years, I'm invisible. Idiots on this message board and elsewhere talk about "those fat-asses" and "those fat losers" and "those ugly fat people" without batting an eyelash--hey, no fat people HERE, nyuck-nyuck-nyuck!

And some of you fat-haters are probably fat too. I was at a McDonald's one night and some freaking American Idol style show was on their television. This curvy African-American girl was singing on a stage, and this guy who was closer to the TV than I was yelled, "LOSE SOME WEIGHT!" He then stood up... and turned around...

...and I swear it looked like he was carrying triplets.

If you look like that too, and you're talking garbage about me? STFU, troll.

Haven't read the OMFG UMPTY-BILLION THREADS ABOUT FAT PEOPLE that have sprung up since the last time I had something to say about this. Won't read any more of this one, either. I'm done with this fat-discussion crap now, at least here at the NSF. But dang, people. You're obviously pretending to be intelligent, at least, or you wouldn't be playing this game. Use the brain cells you've been wasting, mmkay? Thanks in advance.
Fatimah
24-11-2008, 08:49
Oh, one more thing. It just occurred to me. My nation's name? Has nothing to do with body weight. Just in case someone is dumb enough to suggest it. I wouldn't be surprised.

They should ban fatphobic comments here, just as racist ones would be unacceptable. I was freakin' cute 100 pounds ago. You think I LIKE being this way?
Sarkhaan
24-11-2008, 08:50
you couldn't have put this in one of the other two threads already dedicated to this topic? Particularly with a thread that you don't intend on commenting on beyond your ranting OP?

Oh, and no comments should be banned here. Just because you feel offended isn't reason enough that someone should have their opinions censored on a debate forum.
Gauthier
24-11-2008, 08:54
It's because Westerners- and especially Americans- like to oversimply anything they perceive as a negative and magnify its supposed horridness.

Socialism is hyped up as a parasite's paradise, where people don't have to do anything all day and they'll still get a generous share at the expense of everyone else who worked hard for their money and living.

I have news for you people, it's all ready in place. Except we call these parasites "Business Executives".

Similarly, morbid obesity is oversimplified as a matter of sloth and laziness, while clearly ignoring what has been repeatedly documented as biological and chemical factors that play into making an individual obese. Therefore they feel that it's perfectly kosher to dehumanize and insult the overweight as if the extra pounds were a direct result of sin.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 09:02
Similarly, morbid obesity is oversimplified as a matter of sloth and laziness, while clearly ignoring what has been repeatedly documented as biological and chemical factors that play into making an individual obese. Therefore they feel that it's perfectly kosher to dehumanize and insult the overweight as if the extra pounds were a direct result of sin.

You're not going to claim that all cases of obesity are biological and chemical factors are you?
Ardchoille
24-11-2008, 09:03
Posts 105 - 108 merged from other thread.
Intangelon
24-11-2008, 09:09
Oh, one more thing. It just occurred to me. My nation's name? Has nothing to do with body weight. Just in case someone is dumb enough to suggest it. I wouldn't be surprised.

They should ban fatphobic comments here, just as racist ones would be unacceptable. I was freakin' cute 100 pounds ago. You think I LIKE being this way?

Defensive much?

If you don't like it, then it's incumbent upon you to do something about it. If you're fine with it, and it wouldn't bother me or anyone else with a brain and senses of decency and perspective if you were, then there's no problem. I'm not sure what's worse, the people who'll point out any obvious flaw because it's easy or those who overreact to such low-hanging-fruit pickers. I wouldn't give them the satisfaction, but that's me.

Besides, I'll wager you're still freakin' cute. It takes more than a few pounds to chase true cuteness away.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm 6' even at 205 pounds. Bit of a buddha, but hiking and yoga keeps most of me in shape. I don't care about my topography so much as I'd rather not wheeze going up stairs.
Redwulf
24-11-2008, 09:10
You're not going to claim that all cases of obesity are biological and chemical factors are you?

If you want to get absolutely technical, they are. Even in cases that are solely attributable to excess eating and not enough exercise ones metabolism is a biological factor and food is, at a basic level, composed of an arrangement of chemicals (as is the human body).
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 09:16
If you want to get absolutely technical, they are. Even in cases that are solely attributable to excess eating and not enough exercise ones metabolism is a biological factor and food is, at a basic level, composed of an arrangement of chemicals (as is the human body).

Well, obviously. Life itself is a biological and chemical factor.

But I was speaking in terms of what Gauthier seem's to be saying, that obesity being related to genetics, chemical imbalances and such. I was asking him if he believed that was a blanket statement for all cases of obesity or not.
Gauthier
24-11-2008, 09:23
Well, obviously. Life itself is a biological and chemical factor.

But I was speaking in terms of what Gauthier seem's to be saying, that obesity being related to genetics, chemical imbalances and such. I was asking him if he believed that was a blanket statement for all cases of obesity or not.

I would say it applies in most cases of morbid obesity. The combination of an accelerated hunger trigger with reduced metabolism is a very bad double-whammy on top of the social stigma that the afflicted deal with in real life and as contemptuously displayed here on NSG. If losing weight was simply a matter of eating less and exercising more there wouldn't be as much of a problem with it. Overweight is one thing, obese is another.
Intangelon
24-11-2008, 09:31
I think the level of "contempt" being expressed on NSG is comparatively mild.
Vetalia
24-11-2008, 09:42
I fucking smoke. Like I give a shit about whether or not somebody is fat...

That being said, I have lost a lot of weight in recent months which makes me wonder whether the tobacco has had anything to do with it.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 09:49
I would say it applies in most cases of morbid obesity.

Is there any statistical data to back that up?

You have to remember, there has been an increase in obesity worldwide, although mostly in first world western nations, which has begun to occur at roughly just after the time as fatty foods and high oil content food became popular and affordable enough for almost regular consumption (fast food for example). Is it a causal relationship?

Who knows, but it is certainly grounds for a more thorough investigation, and certainly to prevent outright dismissal.


The combination of an accelerated hunger trigger with reduced metabolism


Hunger, like withdrawal symptoms, can be controlled. The reduced metabolism on the other hand, depends somewhat, but not entirely, on what you're eating. Obviously, consumption of high energy density foods without an equal output will result in increased fat stores, unless you have been taking fat bonding agents prior to food consumption that is.

There are however, foodstuffs that one can take low in both fat and carbohydrates, but with enough fiber and vitamins to keep the metabolism going so as to avoid slowdown.


If losing weight was simply a matter of eating less and exercising more there wouldn't be as much of a problem with it.


It has been for me. Does that make me an exception in a sea of chemically imbalanced people, or a more common factor?


as contemptuously displayed here on NSG.

I think the level of "contempt" being expressed on NSG is comparatively mild.

Honestly? With the exception of very few known trolls, I've seen worse between siblings.

I fucking smoke. Like I give a shit about whether or not somebody is fat...

That being said, I have lost a lot of weight in recent months which makes me wonder whether the tobacco has had anything to do with it.

I have an uncle who recently stopped smoking and has gained quite a bit of weight as well. Perhaps tobacco affects appetite?
Anti-Social Darwinism
24-11-2008, 09:54
Not only is the problem with losing weight, but in keeping it off (neither is easy, but compared to taking it off, keeping it off is much the harder). So, we lose, we gain more, we lose again and gain even more. The yo-yo factor screws up the metabolism, making it that much harder to take it off. Then, along comes menopause, screwing things up beyond recognition.

I would like to see a program developed that was designed to deal with people who are confronted with the above issues.

I would like to see people come to an understanding of, not just the issues of obesity, but the people who are facing those issues. I (and my fellow fatties) don't really enjoy aching joints, high-blood pressure, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes and all the other things that are supposed to go with obesity. We would like to be able to live long productive, pain and disease free lives. We would also like to keep those things that make life worth living - like pizza with friends.
Elspian
24-11-2008, 09:55
I also eat less than 1700 calories a day (I counted). I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity.

You do realise that 1700 calories is not enough. You may be really struggling because your body has gone into starvation mode and is storing everything up.
Don't bite my head off as I'm overweight due to an incurable hormone disorder and I've been there with the dieting and the frustration.
I believe that you need to accept and love yourself as you are before you can get anywhere on a diet as steroids naturally produced within your body when you are under stress or unhappy can cause you to gain weight no matter what you do.

I suggest getting back on normal calories and spending some time indulging yourself in a few of lifes luxuries before jumping back on the weightloss horse.
Risottia
24-11-2008, 09:59
There's this somewhat acrimonious thread about whether or not large people should be required to pay for two seats when travelling by air. It's turned into a large, nasty discussion about obesity and whether obese people cause there own disability. The answer is yes ... and no.

I am obese. I am also physically active. I also eat less than 1700 calories a day (I counted). I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable.

I can give again my personal account.
Last year I was on the verge of severe obesity: 190 cm tall, 112 kg weight. I experienced, while driving, a mild heart attack, probabily a light version of the tourist class syndrome: seated for too much time in a small seat. I told to myself, if at age 31 I got a mild one, then at 35 I'm going to what, die of a serious one?
So I started to eat less (no, I don't count calories, sorry): I cut away abruptly bread and biscuits, and I reduced my pasta rations from "huge" (over 200 g) to "abundant" (about 100 g) and with less cheese on it.
Guess what, I've lost 18 kg in one year without any need for medical assistance or increase of physical activity, and I expect to lose another 4 within the next year so I'll achieve my ideal weight (that would be 90 kg: I've got a fairly strong build).

Ok, there are obese people who are so because of hereditary causes, or because of acquired disfunctions: this is NO excuse, though, for weak will.
You don't get "miserable" by eating less, you don't have to "put yourself in a self-made concentration camp" (btw, bad taste, really!). In most cases, you simply have to rule out some foods, and to reduce quantities. If you get hungry before the regular meals, eat celery or carrots, not chocolate: if you get thirsty, drink plain water, not sodas. Put less sugar and no cream in your coffee, less salt and no sauces on your steak. You'll discover that all that sugar, all that salt did nothing but hide the real flavours of your food and of your drinks.

Ok, the beginnings may be difficult, as for many other things. As soon as you lose weight, though, you'll feel happier, and not just because you'll become more attractive. I found my feet and by backbone aching less; I found myself snoring less and breathing better - hence sleeping better, and needing less sleep. I even resolved most of my digestion problems - painful diarrhea attacks, post-meal sleepiness: they were caused by my own fat which squeezed the veins around my intestines. I also said goodbye to pimples.

So:
1.if you are obese because of hereditary factors, you have to eat less anyway
2.if you are obese because of an acquired disfunction, you have to eat less anyway
3.if you are obese because of laziness, you have to force yourself and eat less

There is no easy way out (I wouldn't call stomach surgery an "easy way out"), nor "lose weight while eating like you always did" things. That, or accept the idea of living worse, and for a shorter time. Sorry for being brutal, but so is reality.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 09:59
We would also like to keep those things that make life worth living - like pizza with friends.

It's not that you have to lose them altogether, but moderation does play a role. Dieting 5 days a week with 2 off days on moderation keeps me less grouchy than a 24/7 diet would, provides the necessary vitamins and minerals that could have been missed during the diet period, and still results in quite a bit of weight loss.
Risottia
24-11-2008, 10:03
I fucking smoke.
Mmmhhh tobacco fetish...

That being said, I have lost a lot of weight in recent months which makes me wonder whether the tobacco has had anything to do with it.

Generally tobacco smoke is a substitute for creating endorphines. So, when you need endorphines, your brain will list that need as "need for cigarette" instead of "need for food". Which is not a good thing (smoke isn't quite healthy, I smoke too and I can tell you that), and usually that's the reason because usually people who quit smoking increase weight - they substitute smoking with eating.
Vetalia
24-11-2008, 10:04
I have an uncle who recently stopped smoking and has gained quite a bit of weight as well. Perhaps tobacco affects appetite?

Nicotine is an appetite suppressant, but I also believe it may have other effects that lead to weight loss above and beyond just reducing appetite. I couldn't say for sure, but given its addictive properties it probably isn't the best choice for a diet aid (although there are certainly worse ones...).
Benevulon
24-11-2008, 10:19
When I was fat (though not obese), what I did was do some exercise with a stationary bicycle or those walk-in-place machines for around half an hour a day, while avoiding eating snacks, drinking only one (rather tall) glass of juice/cola a day, and eating junk-food only maybe once a week.

I didn't make any big sacrifices, so it took me a year to lose around 10 kilograms, but I wasn't suffering the whole time so I suppose it wasn't that bad an idea.

Considering some people here seem to say that short people have bigger problems with losing weight, maybe the fact I'm around 1.80 meters in height helped? I'm not really sure. I didn't take any professional weight-loss advice.
Cabra West
24-11-2008, 10:25
The thing about loosing weight is basically that once you have lost it, going back to even normal eating habits (as in, normal for slim people) will inevitably bring you back all the pounds you lost, and some in addition.
So what you would need is to change your diet in a way that you know you'll be able to keep up for the rest of your life. Which isn't easy.
What I did was switching at least 6 meals a week to salads. That worked great while I was living on my own, but once I moved in with my BF I couldn't keep it up (mostly because I'm the one cooking, so I literally cook every evening). But I'm working on reducing the amount of calories in what I cook (reducing fat, removing most of the dairy products, etc) so we'll just have to see how it'll work out.
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 11:05
Mass doesn't pop into existence out of thin air TCT.

Of course it does! Mass is made out of square light, and it's what they make atomic bombs out of. That's also why it is very important not to go out in the sun, because sunlight makes you fat, and also you turn green. Just like a potato, and everyone knows that eating green potatoes makes you explode like an atomic bomb.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 11:11
Of course it does! Mass is made out of square light, and it's what they make atomic bombs out of. That's also why it is very important not to go out in the sun, because sunlight makes you fat, and also you turn green. Just like a potato, and everyone knows that eating green potatoes makes you explode like an atomic bomb.

Congratulations. You've just said the most random thing I've heard all month.
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 11:18
Congratulations. You've just said the most random thing I've heard all month.

I forgot to mention that the moon is disgusting. It's where people come from. ;)
Valentasia
24-11-2008, 11:27
The Moon is not disgusting. It's the most beautiful thing in existence.
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 11:30
The Moon is not disgusting. It's the most beautiful thing in existence.

Just in case ANYONE missed who I was satirizing! LOL!
Valentasia
24-11-2008, 11:32
I'm getting a bit sick of being cyber-bullied by you people. Cut it out.
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 11:54
I'm getting a bit sick of being cyber-bullied by you people. Cut it out.

Here, I'll offer you a deal.

Read every post in this thread.
In exchange I will stop making fun of you.


This is really a very good thread. It's given me a lot of insight into the personal dillemmas of struggling with obesity, a struggle very similar to what I've gone through myself with drugs legal and illegal.

If you feel inclined to answer any of the ON-TOPIC posts, please don't respond with the sort of dehumanizing contempt you exhibited in the "two seats" thread. Try to remember that people have rights, and self-respect, and qualities valuable to other people ... regardless of the size, shape or colour of their bodies.
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 12:08
Nicotine is an appetite suppressant, but I also believe it may have other effects that lead to weight loss above and beyond just reducing appetite. I couldn't say for sure, but given its addictive properties it probably isn't the best choice for a diet aid (although there are certainly worse ones...).

That's certainly my experience. I'm sucking a nicotine lozenge right now, I've been a (pharmaceutical) nicotine addict -- patches, gum and lozenges -- for four years, off and on the cigarettes for twenty years before that.

This is a complete guess: the toxins in smoke (carbon monoxide in particular) do so much damage all over the body, that you burn energy repairing it. Not a good way to "stimulate the metabolism."
Valentasia
24-11-2008, 12:21
I'm not going to read all of this thread.

But in retrospect i suppose what i said about obese people wasn't very nice. I'm sure it's not easy, but i do feel quite strongly that it's self inflicted.

I apologise if anyone took offense to my comments.
Intangelon
24-11-2008, 12:29
I'm getting a bit sick of being cyber-bullied by you people. Cut it out.

Oh, so you weren't expecting a negative reaction to your faux-absurd self-aggrandizement? Don't blame the semi-discriminating palate of NSG for your miscalculation.
Valentasia
24-11-2008, 12:31
Oh, so you weren't expecting a negative reaction to your faux-absurd self-aggrandizement? Don't blame the semi-discriminating palate of NSG for your miscalculation.

The self aggrandizement you're talking about was taken from my website. Someone here took it upon themselves to post something i wrote about my musical abilities. Anyone who clicked on the audio samples would know that there is nothing absurd about it.
Intangelon
24-11-2008, 12:40
The self aggrandizement you're talking about was taken from my website. Someone here took it upon themselves to post something i wrote about my musical abilities. Anyone who clicked on the audio samples would know that there is nothing absurd about it.

Provided that the anyone in question had never heard music before in their lives or was selectively deaf, sure. I've read enough. Sad troll is sad.
Valentasia
24-11-2008, 12:45
Sure thing. I am paid to perform my music. It's my main source of income. It takes talent to make a career out of music, and the opinion of some dullard on nationstates is unlikely to effect the actuality of the situation. What is truly sad is your desperation to believe that this is all a facade, to inflame a silly little forum. If i had made the claims of self aggrandizement myself maybe you'd have a point, but i can't be blamed for what other people post.
Cabra West
24-11-2008, 12:50
Sure thing. I am paid to perform my music. It's my main source of income. It takes talent to make a career out of music, and the opinion of some dullard on nationstates is unlikely to effect the actuality of the situation. What is truly sad is your desperation to believe that this is all a facade, to inflame a silly little forum. If i had made the claims of self aggrandizement myself maybe you'd have a point, but i can't be blamed for what other people post.

Seriously? And here I thought to make a career in music all you need is a big ego... or how else would you explain the success of Atomic Kitten, or the Spicegirls?
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 12:50
I'm not going to read all of this thread.

No, you should. It's a very good thread.

If you don't think it's worth reading, but consider the yourself a more important subject (or the beauty of the moon for that matter) ... then don't post here.

You've got your own thread. The one you started, about something you are presumably interested in (since you say you have spent years developing it, "your" idea about the moon being an incubator for life on earth.) Why don't you go answer some of the posts there?
Valentasia
24-11-2008, 12:52
Seriously? And here I thought to make a career in music all you need is a big ego... or how else would you explain the success of Atomic Kitten, or the Spicegirls?

It's a bit different for those kinds of bands. I don't have a massive marketing team behind me.
Valentasia
24-11-2008, 12:54
No, you should. It's a very good thread.

If you don't think it's worth reading, but consider the yourself a more important subject (or the beauty of the moon for that matter) ... then don't post here.

You've got your own thread. The one you started, about something you are presumably interested in (since you say you have spent years developing it, "your" idea about the moon being an incubator for life on earth.) Why don't you go answer some of the posts there?

Sorry, i don't want to sully this thread. I made a post in reply to a derogatory remark from you, then some other idiot decided to wade in to call me a "troll". I'll respond to any negativity regardless of what thread it is on.
Myrmidonisia
24-11-2008, 14:06
@)#$^%&

It must be nice to live in a world in which everyone can control their weight and there are no diseases, genetics, or other factors beyond one's control that can cause obesity.

To bad we don't live in that world.
Then again, if we exclude the exceptions, it's nice to know that personal behavior isn't a personal responsibility. That seems to be the world you're promoting.
Non Aligned States
24-11-2008, 14:33
Provided that the anyone in question had never heard music before in their lives or was selectively deaf, sure. I've read enough. Sad troll is sad.

Sure thing. I am paid to perform my music. It's my main source of income. It takes talent to make a career out of music, and the opinion of some dullard on nationstates is unlikely to effect the actuality of the situation. What is truly sad is your desperation to believe that this is all a facade, to inflame a silly little forum. If i had made the claims of self aggrandizement myself maybe you'd have a point, but i can't be blamed for what other people post.

Oh put a sock in it, both of you. The threads not about you or your "I'm so vain" posturing.

The thing about loosing weight is basically that once you have lost it, going back to even normal eating habits (as in, normal for slim people) will inevitably bring you back all the pounds you lost, and some in addition.

If by normal eating habits, you mean what it was like before the weight loss regime, wouldn't that mean the first incarnation was a weight gaining diet to begin with?
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 14:33
Then again, if we exclude the exceptions, it's nice to know that personal behavior isn't a personal responsibility. That seems to be the world you're promoting.

That's about the truth of it. I'm not a thin man myself, not fat, I have a beer belly like many men my age.

It is totaly my responsiblity, I drink too much beer, and when I have the munchies, I eat to much shit. I could get rid of it by more excersies, but you know what, I can't be bothererd, I'm not that bothered about my few extra pounds and if the day ever comes that I am, then I'll do something about .


Or I won't, but I'll not be blaming anybody else but myself, for my laziness and my bad habbits.
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 15:04
Then again, if we exclude the exceptions, it's nice to know that personal behavior isn't a personal responsibility. That seems to be the world you're promoting.

That's about the truth of it. I'm not a thin man myself, not fat, I have a beer belly like many men my age.
.
It might be the truth of it, if TCT had said any such thing. Of course, he didn't. What he said was in direct response to specific comments posted earlier, but I understand that it's easier to misprepresent a comment if it is taken out of context.
Khadgar
24-11-2008, 15:25
If you are consuming less than 1700 calories a day and you are not losing weight then either
a: you have some metabolic condition that should be treated; or
b: your lifestyle is too sedentary to be healthy.

I am not proposing that you should start an intensive exercise program, but simple change of attitude in daily activities could make a significant change. If it is less than half a mile then walk instead of using the car. If it is only one floor then climb the stairs instead of the escalator or elevator, etc. If you made this simple type of change - not putting yourself into a self made concentration camp - then you will start to burn more than 1700 calories a day - ergo you would lose weight.

Of course whether you want to lose weight is an entirely personal matter, and is for you to decide.

I spent 5 months, walking 30-45 minutes every day. Lost 3 lbs. The dog however lost 13 lbs. Good for her.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 15:54
It might be the truth of it, if TCT had said any such thing. Of course, he didn't. What he said was in direct response to specific comments posted earlier, but I understand that it's easier to misprepresent a comment if it is taken out of context.

Meh! I don't think that's what happend at all. :p

Myrmidonisia basicly said, in a sarcastic way, that people are responsible for their own actions. I was agreeing. What do you find objectionable about that?
Muravyets
24-11-2008, 16:15
Meh! I don't think that's what happend at all. :p

Myrmidonisia basicly said, in a sarcastic way, that people are responsible for their own actions. I was agreeing. What do you find objectionable about that?
I think I made it clear that I thought Myrmi was misrepresenting TCT's argument. That is my opinion based on my reading of the thread, and that being the case, I think what I find objectionable about it should be obvious.

If you read it differently, so be it.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 16:16
I think I made it clear that I thought Myrmi was misrepresenting TCT's argument. That is my opinion based on my reading of the thread, and that being the case, I think what I find objectionable about it should be obvious.

If you read it differently, so be it.

Cool.
Jello Biafra
24-11-2008, 17:39
There doesn't happen to be a food that's inexpensive, filling (in a short period of time), requires no preparation and tasty, does there?

I spent 5 months, walking 30-45 minutes every day. Lost 3 lbs. The dog however lost 13 lbs. Good for her.Based on things you've said in other threads, you seem to be a clear case of undereating.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 17:44
People are responsible for their own actions. Unless they're drunk. Or too young to be trusted with the free use of their legs etc. Or mentally incompetent.

Bah. Never mind the exceptions. People are responsible for what the do. Their actions.

So they're responsible for the consequences of their actions. Because someone has to be responsible for that hurricane, and over there in the Amazon, a butterfly dodging a tree which no person saw falling, had the temerity to flap it's wings!

Grow your coca plant. Chew your leaves, and dance all night. Right there in your face, is an ancient solution to the dangers of surplus food. And it's fun, it's a fucking ball, not a ball-and-chain.

Don't dig yourself down into a hole of misery, don't be the victims of a sanctimonious work-ethic social heirarchy that insists that the only way to happiness is to earn and consume, consume and earn. That's crap. That's the people who have already "won" setting the rules, it's "society as the propaganda of the self-satisfied" and we poison our own lives every day, by looking at their pretty faces and by reading any word we cannot reply to. We chant the koran of film scripts and abase ourselves to any meme which still has currency.

Sure, my culture is cheap. It's expendable. It's picked from the dumpsters of useful knowledge, the charity shops. I didn't fight for my banner, my commission, I'm just an intellectual cowboy walking the three cartoon steps of a walk, and talking the

Flying
Aimlessly
Endlessly
In air

Moving
Upwardly,
Fallingly,
Or not.

Falling,
Endlessly.

Rising,
Endlessly.

Or not.
We fly.

Baby birds
We fly
Failing birds
We die
Flying birds
We discover work, the hourly or daily flight by which we must live, and live, and live, until we die, and our every hour, awwwk, even sleeping hour, is like our little frantic hearts, the vast unknown of the future, all we could know and all we want, at mercy once, twice, again of our heart, as it beats. Once, twice, at the mercy of time, and again and again and again until ...

well, nothing really. It's not good or bad, then. It's just ... nothing.

shakespeare? poe! th ravn! ha, yr raven!

Shit! *pst* you got any of that stuff left?:D
BunnySaurus Bugsii
24-11-2008, 17:45
There doesn't happen to be a food that's inexpensive, filling (in a short period of time), requires no preparation and tasty, does there?

Styrofoam beads. With Soy Sauce.
Khadgar
24-11-2008, 17:47
There doesn't happen to be a food that's inexpensive, filling (in a short period of time), requires no preparation and tasty, does there?

Based on things you've said in other threads, you seem to be a clear case of undereating.

I eat three times a day now at the very least. Though there's something odd about having to eat more often to lose weight. I figure I'll just do the starvation diet thing again, though last time that didn't drop me below 320.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 17:47
Styrofoam beads. With Soy Sauce.

I was gonna go with Crisps, Biscuits, and Chocolate(Chips, Cookies, and Candy? for our USA side brethren & sistern ):D
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 17:48
I eat three times a day now at the very least. Though there's something odd about having to eat more often to lose weight. I figure I'll just do the starvation diet thing again, though last time that didn't drop me below 320.

Thats coz your body gets used to the lack of food and changes you metabolism to compensate.
Khadgar
24-11-2008, 17:50
Thats coz your body gets used to the lack of food and changes you metabolism to compensate.

I'm not sure I have a metabolism.
Jello Biafra
24-11-2008, 17:50
I was gonna go with Crisps, Biscuits, and Chocolate(Chips, Cookies, and Candy? for our USA side brethren & sistern ):DDamn, I forgot to add the food should also be healthy. 'Cause that's what I eat now.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 17:52
I'm not sure I have a metabolism.

Heh of course you have.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 17:54
Damn, I forgot to add the food should also be healthy. 'Cause that's what I eat now.

Well too much of any one thing is not really healthy, but flour is a fantastic invention, with it you can make your self lots of heatlhy(and indeed unhealthy) things to eat, and it is very very cheap.
Jello Biafra
24-11-2008, 17:55
Well too much of any one thing is not really healthy, but flour is a fantastic invention, with it you can make your self lots of heatlhy(and indeed unhealthy) things to eat, and it is very very cheap.Using flour requires preparation. :)
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 18:03
Using flour requires preparation. :)

Ahhh yeah, you did say that huh! Can't preperation count as excersie? Best of both worlds that way.

Or........ you could just eat it?
Jello Biafra
24-11-2008, 18:07
Ahhh yeah, you did say that huh! Can't preperation count as excersie? Best of both worlds that way.

Or........ you could just eat it?:D Flour itself isn't tasty.
Risottia
24-11-2008, 18:16
There doesn't happen to be a food that's inexpensive, filling (in a short period of time), requires no preparation and tasty, does there?

Carrots come to my mind. I like carrots. Also apples and pears. A bit more expensive, though.
Smunkeeville
24-11-2008, 18:21
Carrots come to my mind. I like carrots. Also apples and pears. A bit more expensive, though.

Apples and peanut butter *nod*

I'd like to point out to all the "just quit eating bread" people, that some of us don't eat any bread, pasta, cookies, or processed food at all and we're still fat. Living on veggies, fruit, lean meat and soda (yeah, I know, I tried to give it up) and I'm still really fat.

I am sure most of you thin people eat much more junk than I do. I have issues that cause my obesity that have nothing to do with what I eat. Things that are very much out of my control.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 18:21
:D Flour itself isn't tasty.

Damn you and your logic!
Gauthier
24-11-2008, 18:24
I am sure most of you thin people eat much more junk than I do. I have issues that cause my obesity that have nothing to do with what I eat. Things that are very much out of my control.

But if people actually paid attention to biological and chemical causes rather than just chalk it up to "Overeating and Laziness" where would people find an acceptable target they can persecute without guilt? Not even Muslimania is going to last forever you know.

:D
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 18:34
Apples and peanut butter *nod*

I'd like to point out to all the "just quit eating bread" people, that some of us don't eat any bread, pasta, cookies, or processed food at all and we're still fat. Living on veggies, fruit, lean meat and soda (yeah, I know, I tried to give it up) and I'm still really fat.

I am sure most of you thin people eat much more junk than I do. I have issues that cause my obesity that have nothing to do with what I eat. Things that are very much out of my control.


Hey Smunk first off I really don't want to upset YOU so bear that in mind. However, peanut butter!

I have a similar problem with my 13 year old, he like me and his oldest brother are dyslexic, and he appears to be worse than I was at his age, he is always wanting to give up, to blame his condition, and I find myself telling him 'son your dyslexcia just means that you have to try harder than the rest'.

And it's true, it is not fair, but he does have to try harder than the rest. Ya get me!:D
Smunkeeville
24-11-2008, 18:41
Hey Smunk first off I really don't want to upset YOU so bear that in mind. However, peanut butter!

1 tsp. of peanut butter per apple. I don't eat any other fat, aside from the 3-4oz. of meat I eat once a week, and it's lean so it's not got much.
You can't live with no fat.

I have a similar problem with my 13 year old, he like me and his oldest brother are dyslexic, and he appears to be worse than I was at his age, he is always wanting to give up, to blame his condition, and I find myself telling him 'son your dyslexcia just means that you have to try harder than the rest'.

And it's true, it is not fair, but he does have to try harder than the rest. Ya get me!:D
I'll try harder not to take the medicine that keeps me living, I'll try harder to change the hormones that I can't control, I'll try harder to fix the metabolic syndrome my doctor can't fix.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 18:44
1 tsp. of peanut butter per apple. I don't eat any other fat, aside from the 3-4oz. of meat I eat once a week, and it's lean so it's not got much.
You can't live with no fat.


I'll try harder not to take the medicine that keeps me living, I'll try harder to change the hormones that I can't control, I'll try harder to fix the metabolic syndrome my doctor can't fix.

Now I did I say I didn't want to upset you. So I'll applogise for doing just that right now.
Anti-Social Darwinism
24-11-2008, 18:48
Hey Smunk first off I really don't want to upset YOU so bear that in mind. However, peanut butter!

I have a similar problem with my 13 year old, he like me and his oldest brother are dyslexic, and he appears to be worse than I was at his age, he is always wanting to give up, to blame his condition, and I find myself telling him 'son your dyslexcia just means that you have to try harder than the rest'.

And it's true, it is not fair, but he does have to try harder than the rest. Ya get me!:D

There are fats that are good. Peanut butter, the natural kind, is a source of good fats as well as protein and, used in moderation, does no harm. Actually it does a bit of good.

Not to sound bitter (although I'm sure it does), but I'm thinking that quite a number of you would be happier if all us fat people went off to out own little dietary gulag, where we would eat nothing but celery, carrots and skim milk with nary a dietary pleasure in sight - and, of course, we would be well out of your sight. Then you could all go back to gorging on pizza, pasta and chocolate without consequence and without being bothered by a visible reminder of what could happen. You are the lucky ones, born with metabolisms where, if you gain a pound, a day's abstinence will cure it.

God, telling an obese person that she just has to try harder than the rest, is akin to telling a paraplegic that all he has to do is get out of the wheelchair and walk - it ain't that simple.
Peepelonia
24-11-2008, 18:51
There are fats that are good. Peanut butter, the natural kind, is a source of good fats as well as protein and, used in moderation, does no harm. Actually it does a bit of good.

Not to sound bitter (although I'm sure it does), but I'm thinking that quite a number of you would be happier if all us fat people went off to out own little dietary gulag, where we would eat nothing but celery, carrots and skim milk with nary a dietary pleasure in sight - and, of course, we would be well out of your sight. Then you could all go back to gorging on pizza, pasta and chocolate without consequence and without being bothered by a visible reminder of what could happen. You are the lucky ones, born with metabolisms where, if you gain a pound, a day's abstinence will cure it.

God, telling an obese person that she just has to try harder than the rest, is akin to telling a paraplegic that all he has to do is get out of the wheelchair and walk - it ain't that simple.

Hey easy there. I'm not a thiny myself. I could be but I'm just too damed lazy, both in my excercise regime and my diet.
Dempublicents1
24-11-2008, 18:51
I have an uncle who recently stopped smoking and has gained quite a bit of weight as well. Perhaps tobacco affects appetite?

A lot of people gain weight when they quit smoking. Part of it is because smoking does suppress appetite, so not doing it means you're likely to be hungrier.

I think it's also that smokers who are quitting tend to try and satisfy their cravings in a different way, and that often leads to more snacking (and not necessarily healthy snacking).
Neo Bretonnia
24-11-2008, 18:55
I'm in the obese camp, myself.

I blame only myself. I live a sedentary life. I am a computer programmer and I spend most of my off hours playing EQ2, painting miniatures or posting on these damned forums. In short, I sit. A lot.

In a way, I take a sort of weird comfort in not having tried EVERYTHING to lose the weight. It's like allowing myself to believe I still have control, in that I still have options.

But I will say that the thing that saps my motivation to do something about it the most is criticism of it. See, my dad seems to delight in reminding me that I'm overweight. Apparently he doesn't think I own a mirror, a scale, or am capable of powering my head more than about 30 degrees of angle. He constantly badgers me about how it's gonna cause me diabetes, heart attack, etc etc etc. Apparently my weight is also the cause of my stress (His solution to everything is "just exercise!" Did you know exercise also apparently cures cancer, diabetes, gunshot wounds, etc?

So talking to my dad is like taking what motivation and enthusiasm for exercise that I've built up, and pitching it into the dumpster.

Mind you, I am not trying to blame my dad for my slothfulness. He's certainly presenting an obstacle, but at the end of the day I'm the one who has to take the responsibility and deal with it better.

Recently a buddy and I decided to start going for regular walks together around the lake. I jokingly refer to it as our gay exercise dates. I think it will definitely help but I need to do it more than once a week.

Oh, and for the record: If someone is so big they need to 2 airline seats, then that's what they ought to pay for. Fair is fair. (Easy for me to say, I still fit in one... But still...)
Derrewyn
24-11-2008, 18:56
No idea if anyone has touched on this in the 11 pages I didn't read, but emotion can also play a part in holding on to weight. So despite all the feelings of worthlessness or anger or frustration that come with weight you can't seem to lose, one of the hardest things to do is to be optimistic and convince yourself that you can rid the weight (hard to do when you have an anorexic media showing you what you're "supposed" to look like). Not that optimism alone is going to do anything. Adjusting *only* your diet, or *only* your activity level, or *only* your outlook won't do much good. But adjusting them all will yield better results.
Dempublicents1
24-11-2008, 18:58
The thing about loosing weight is basically that once you have lost it, going back to even normal eating habits (as in, normal for slim people) will inevitably bring you back all the pounds you lost, and some in addition.
So what you would need is to change your diet in a way that you know you'll be able to keep up for the rest of your life. Which isn't easy.
What I did was switching at least 6 meals a week to salads. That worked great while I was living on my own, but once I moved in with my BF I couldn't keep it up (mostly because I'm the one cooking, so I literally cook every evening). But I'm working on reducing the amount of calories in what I cook (reducing fat, removing most of the dairy products, etc) so we'll just have to see how it'll work out.

Yeah, having another person that you share meals with seems to make it all more difficult.

For instance, I would love to add more fish to my diet - and I think it would be better for me overall if I did. However, my husband doesn't like fish and cooking one thing for me and another for him would just be a pain in the butt. So I rarely get fish unless we're eating out - and eating out is generally less healthy than eating in.

Also, my husband and I have very different metabolisms and health needs. He's actually underweight. I'm over. He has a scary-fast metabolism. I don't. The only thing we really have in common on that front is that we both need more active lifestyles. I'm working on that, but he's staying pretty sedentary.
Dempublicents1
24-11-2008, 19:07
But I will say that the thing that saps my motivation to do something about it the most is criticism of it. See, my dad seems to delight in reminding me that I'm overweight. Apparently he doesn't think I own a mirror, a scale, or am capable of powering my head more than about 30 degrees of angle. He constantly badgers me about how it's gonna cause me diabetes, heart attack, etc etc etc. Apparently my weight is also the cause of my stress (His solution to everything is "just exercise!" Did you know exercise also apparently cures cancer, diabetes, gunshot wounds, etc?

So talking to my dad is like taking what motivation and enthusiasm for exercise that I've built up, and pitching it into the dumpster.

Mind you, I am not trying to blame my dad for my slothfulness. He's certainly presenting an obstacle, but at the end of the day I'm the one who has to take the responsibility and deal with it better.

I think a lot of people end up doing that. They're trying to be helpful because they really are worried about your health and all, but the way they go about it is counter-productive.

My husband has done that to me before. He means well, but it just doesn't come out quite right. In my case, part of that is probably my own issues, but still, I think I can see where you're coming from.


Also, just as a general addition to the thread, I don't think other people going on and on about someone losing weight or being more active or anything like that generally helps. Whatever changes someone needs to make to get healthier, it's only going to happen if they personally make it a priority. And it isn't nagging that is going to get them there. And people don't forget what's been said either. If you've expressed your worries once, that's probably enough. They know. Now it's up to them.

That said, I'm not particularly good at taking my own advice. I've been nagging my husband about getting more exercise for quite some time now.
Hotwife
24-11-2008, 19:07
I'm in the obese camp, myself.

I blame only myself. I live a sedentary life. I am a computer programmer and I spend most of my off hours playing EQ2, painting miniatures or posting on these damned forums. In short, I sit. A lot.


I am a software developer, and I find time to put a lot of physical activity into my life. Owning a Belgian Malinois helps a lot (the dog has to be run several miles in the morning, and again in the evenings or he tears the house to pieces).

Having active kids helps (sort of a circular thing there) - there's a lot of running and cycling there.

Get off the computer when you're at home.

I spend a lot of time hiking, fishing, hunting, and doing IDPA.
Myrmidonisia
24-11-2008, 19:08
How about just not dispensing advice unless you know what you're talking about?

I mean, you don't, generally, but there are plenty of others who do.
It is well known, except in cases where precipitating an argument is preferred, that exercise is generally good and a healthy diet is also generally good. With that advice, you are at least suggesting that a different lifestyle could be beneficial.

Have we gotten to the point where every post needs to be footnoted with 'consult with your doctor before beginning any ...'? Around here is should be more like Caveat Emptor
Hotwife
24-11-2008, 19:10
Also, just as a general addition to the thread, I don't think other people going on and on about someone losing weight or being more active or anything like that generally helps. Whatever changes someone needs to make to get healthier, it's only going to happen if they personally make it a priority. And it isn't nagging that is going to get them there. And people don't forget what's been said either. If you've expressed your worries once, that's probably enough. They know. Now it's up to them.


You have to make the changes a permanent, enjoyable part of your lifestyle.

If you reduce your food intake and eat rice cakes (and you hate them), you're not going to stay "motivated".

If you hate running, you're not going to keep doing it. If you like running with your dog, you probably will keep doing it.

It's easier to make lifestyle changes if you find a way that you can enjoy it - the trouble is, most people don't have a way to that enjoyment, so the door is closed to them.
Dempublicents1
24-11-2008, 19:13
You have to make the changes a permanent, enjoyable part of your lifestyle.

If you reduce your food intake and eat rice cakes (and you hate them), you're not going to stay "motivated".

If you hate running, you're not going to keep doing it. If you like running with your dog, you probably will keep doing it.

It's easier to make lifestyle changes if you find a way that you can enjoy it - the trouble is, most people don't have a way to that enjoyment, so the door is closed to them.

Or it's expensive.

I've found that I'm simply not motivated to exercise alone. But if it's a class or private instruction type situation, I'll keep up with it. And I enjoy it.

But I'm also spending way too much money on it, which means I've had to cut out other things I also enjoy. Ah well.
Myrmidonisia
24-11-2008, 19:19
You have to make the changes a permanent, enjoyable part of your lifestyle.

If you reduce your food intake and eat rice cakes (and you hate them), you're not going to stay "motivated".

If you hate running, you're not going to keep doing it. If you like running with your dog, you probably will keep doing it.

It's easier to make lifestyle changes if you find a way that you can enjoy it - the trouble is, most people don't have a way to that enjoyment, so the door is closed to them.
Finding a way to exercise that I enjoyed was the hardest thing to do after I retired from the Marines. I really hated running and after 20 years of it, all I wanted to do was quit. It wasn't until I gained about 30 pounds and really felt awful that I started spinning at the local gym. It's a lot more intense than biking, plus it does make the weekend bike trips around here a lot more enjoyable.
Neo Bretonnia
24-11-2008, 19:19
I think a lot of people end up doing that. They're trying to be helpful because they really are worried about your health and all, but the way they go about it is counter-productive.

My husband has done that to me before. He means well, but it just doesn't come out quite right. In my case, part of that is probably my own issues, but still, I think I can see where you're coming from.

Yeah there's no question he means well, and my dad is the product of a culture where you express your concern by just nagging the hell out of someone. He actually admitted to me once that he was afraid that I'd think he didn't care if he didn't nag me.

You'd think a conversation open enough to produce that admission would lead to a change in the situation... It didn't.

I am a software developer, and I find time to put a lot of physical activity into my life. Owning a Belgian Malinois helps a lot (the dog has to be run several miles in the morning, and again in the evenings or he tears the house to pieces).

Having active kids helps (sort of a circular thing there) - there's a lot of running and cycling there.

Get off the computer when you're at home.

I spend a lot of time hiking, fishing, hunting, and doing IDPA.

Yeah I used to do a lot of cross country biking and if I do say so myself, my legs are still pretty well toned to this day from it. I still have a bike, and plenty of trails in the area.

The problem is that I crave something that will keep my mind active. It's why I'm always engaged in some sort of activity where I need to think. I can't even sit and watch TV without something else to do at the same time (Unless it's Battlestar Galactica). So riding a bike, enjoyable as it used to be for me, just seems boring now.

I've thought about getting an indoor exercise bike so I can maybe give my brain something to do while working out.
Hotwife
24-11-2008, 19:28
The problem is that I crave something that will keep my mind active. It's why I'm always engaged in some sort of activity where I need to think. I can't even sit and watch TV without something else to do at the same time (Unless it's Battlestar Galactica). So riding a bike, enjoyable as it used to be for me, just seems boring now.

An extremely intelligent and highly motivated dog (like a Malinois) that requires constant attention, training, and exercise is more than enough to keep you active in both body and mind.
Neo Bretonnia
24-11-2008, 19:42
An extremely intelligent and highly motivated dog (like a Malinois) that requires constant attention, training, and exercise is more than enough to keep you active in both body and mind.

My buddy has one of those. He insists it's the ultimate dog. I do intend to get a German Shepherd but until I move out of my 2 bedroom apartment, neither breed is an option.
Rambhutan
24-11-2008, 19:57
....and doing IDPA.

Shoot yourself fitter?
Hotwife
24-11-2008, 20:00
Shoot yourself fitter?

There's a lot of running around while shooting.
TJHairball
24-11-2008, 20:04
You are the lucky ones, born with metabolisms where, if you gain a pound, a day's abstinence will cure it.

God, telling an obese person that she just has to try harder than the rest, is akin to telling a paraplegic that all he has to do is get out of the wheelchair and walk - it ain't that simple.
I worked at a weight loss camp for a couple summers. We'd get all kinds, with all kinds of individual medical issues. We had them all eating 1800 calories a day, and all exercising. They all lost weight in a remarkably predictable fashion over a span of two months. Week to week, sure, the numbers fluctuated...

... but thermodynamics plays no curve balls. Calories in minus calories expended equals net change in body energy reserves. If they skimped, they simply didn't have enough zip in them to exercise. You can't become fit simply by reducing diet. You also can't become fit by dropping water weight - hydration is absolutely essential to health and, again, having the zip to get through exercise.

It's also complicated by muscular development and incentives. If you burn a net of 2000 calories while adding a pound of muscle... your total weight doesn't change. Which is terribly demotivating; you can go 2-3 weeks barely noticing any change in weight. You can even gain weight while becoming fit. The most important thing isn't the weight, although that's a good number to keep tabs on. Technically speaking, I'm overweight. BMI is like... 27 or so. But since I'm an active person, my body fat percentage is in a perfectly healthy range.

IMMHO, 90% of the "metabolism" excuses used for someone being thin or fat are complete bull. I don't magically burn a thousand extra calories a day than someone else my height and weight. My habit of bouncing my legs while sitting accounts for hundreds of calories every day. I burn a little extra because I don't sleep enough. Et cetera. When you add it all together, you can account for every bit of difference between my caloric balance and that of a typical person my size.

It's very simple, and very hard.
Dempublicents1
24-11-2008, 20:52
It's also complicated by muscular development and incentives. If you burn a net of 2000 calories while adding a pound of muscle... your total weight doesn't change. Which is terribly demotivating; you can go 2-3 weeks barely noticing any change in weight. You can even gain weight while becoming fit. The most important thing isn't the weight, although that's a good number to keep tabs on.

This is very true. If your goal is fitness (rather than a specific weight goal), weight shouldn't be the only thing you're paying attention to. Do your clothes fit differently? Do you feel better? Can you do some of the exercises you couldn't do at first? Can you do an activity longer before you're out of breath? And so on....

There are so many things you can keep track of. This is part of why I like either having an instructor or a workout buddy. They can remind you how far you've come and keep you motivated.
Redwulf
24-11-2008, 21:28
Provided that the anyone in question had never heard music before in their lives or was selectively deaf, sure. I've read enough. Sad troll is sad.

She's (he's?) not the one coming off trollish at this point . . .
Flammable Ice
24-11-2008, 21:46
I considered making an intelligent and insightful comment. Then I decided to post a link to a video of a fat guy doing kung fu movie scenes.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GDtSxXJxPVU (Sammo Hung)
Anti-Social Darwinism
24-11-2008, 21:51
I considered making an intelligent and insightful comment. Then I decided to post a link to a video of a fat guy doing kung fu movie scenes.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GDtSxXJxPVU (Sammo Hung)

Oh wow. My new hero.
Cabra West
24-11-2008, 22:02
Or it's expensive.

I've found that I'm simply not motivated to exercise alone. But if it's a class or private instruction type situation, I'll keep up with it. And I enjoy it.

But I'm also spending way too much money on it, which means I've had to cut out other things I also enjoy. Ah well.

True that.
In my case, I used to love going swimming. I used to go twice a week when I was still iving in Dublin.
Now, in Cork, it's next to impossible for me to get to a public pool. The one in the town we live in closes at 7pm (with me coming home at 6.30, usually), and the public pools in Cork are not in the city centre but on the outskirts, making it impossible to reach them within reasonable time on public transport.
I'll have to make my driver's license and get a car before I can take up swimming again. How ridiculous is that???
Neo Bretonnia
24-11-2008, 22:02
If I can find the link I'll post it, but it was about a couple of guys who decided to connect a pair of treadmills to their computers to see if they could run across the game world in World of Warcraft.

Maybe I should adapt that to the ultimate geek workout equipment... To connect a treadmill or stationary bike to my computer, connect the display to my big TV, and jog across the EverQuest II world... maybe even using that whenever m y characters are traveling so th at my EQ2 playing is connected to my exercise...

Hmm.... uber nerdy, yet healthy... This may not be such a bad idea...
Flammable Ice
24-11-2008, 22:06
Oh wow. My new hero.

If you want to see a good Sammo movie, I'd recommend 'Millionaire's Express'. Sammo directed this, as well as starring in it.
AB Again
24-11-2008, 22:32
I worked at a weight loss camp for a couple summers. We'd get all kinds, with all kinds of individual medical issues. We had them all eating 1800 calories a day, and all exercising. They all lost weight in a remarkably predictable fashion over a span of two months. Week to week, sure, the numbers fluctuated...

... but thermodynamics plays no curve balls. Calories in minus calories expended equals net change in body energy reserves.

Where's our o so knowledgeable Jocabia now?

While I understand, very well thank you, from personal experience, that a change in either lifestyle or calorie intake can initially provoke a metabolic reaction that is the reverse of that that is desired, this is normally only a short term reaction and perseverance will generate the results that are wanted - in most cases.
Non Aligned States
25-11-2008, 05:12
Apples and peanut butter *nod*

I'd like to point out to all the "just quit eating bread" people, that some of us don't eat any bread, pasta, cookies, or processed food at all and we're still fat. Living on veggies, fruit, lean meat and soda (yeah, I know, I tried to give it up) and I'm still really fat.


What sort of soda?
Sparkelle
25-11-2008, 05:21
I am obese. I am also physically active. I also eat less than 1700 calories a day (I counted). I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable. Many obese people are in the same situation - otherwise healthy, just unable to lose the weight without, essentially, putting themselves in a self-made concentration camp. Some have actual physical problems that cause the weight gain and corresponding difficulty in losing it. Some are lazy - so are some thin people.

From what I know
If you lay in bed all day you will burn 1500 calories per day. So I doubt your numbers.
Smunkeeville
25-11-2008, 05:22
What sort of soda?

The bad kind. :( I've cut down enormously. I only had 3oz. today.
Smunkeeville
25-11-2008, 05:24
From what I know
If you lay in bed all day you will burn 1500 calories per day. So I doubt your numbers.

I doubt your numbers. Link?
Jocabia
25-11-2008, 05:26
Where's our o so knowledgeable Jocabia now?

While I understand, very well thank you, from personal experience, that a change in either lifestyle or calorie intake can initially provoke a metabolic reaction that is the reverse of that that is desired, this is normally only a short term reaction and perseverance will generate the results that are wanted - in most cases.

He's talking about children. Full-grown men and women who are really active generally need more calories than 1800.
Poliwanacraca
25-11-2008, 05:29
From what I know
If you lay in bed all day you will burn 1500 calories per day. So I doubt your numbers.

Given that I eat fewer than 1500 calories a day, do more than lie in bed, and have nonetheless gained 15 pounds or so in the last two years, I'm going to guess that "what you know" has very little to do with reality.
Poliwanacraca
25-11-2008, 05:30
Full ground men and women who are really active generally need more calories than 1800.

....Soylent Green is high-calorie? :tongue:
Jocabia
25-11-2008, 05:30
... but thermodynamics plays no curve balls. Calories in minus calories expended equals net change in body energy reserves.

While this is true, unfortunately, the problem with reducing it to an equation is... calories in can CAUSE you to expend more calories. Your metabolism is effected by how you eat.

It's not remarkably simple. At all. What you don't acknowledge is that they not only put them 1800 calories, but they have a balanced diet and eat at regular times.

While thermo equations apply, the calories out is greatly effected by a variety of factors that are not simply activity. Oversimplifying confuses people. You oversimplified.

And if you look up a few posts, now poor AB is once again confused.
Jocabia
25-11-2008, 05:32
Finding a way to exercise that I enjoyed was the hardest thing to do after I retired from the Marines. I really hated running and after 20 years of it, all I wanted to do was quit. It wasn't until I gained about 30 pounds and really felt awful that I started spinning at the local gym. It's a lot more intense than biking, plus it does make the weekend bike trips around here a lot more enjoyable.

This is something we agree on and for the same reasons. I simply can't pound the pavement anymore. It's not good for my knees and hips.

As they say, been there, done that.
Non Aligned States
25-11-2008, 05:33
The bad kind. :( I've cut down enormously. I only had 3oz. today.

I'm guessing high sugar types?
Smunkeeville
25-11-2008, 05:36
I'm guessing high sugar types?

Dr. Pepper. :(
Sparkelle
25-11-2008, 05:39
I doubt your numbers. Link?

As I said. It is from what I know. But searched and found you a link
http://books.google.ca/books?id=9magDnBkdZAC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=basic+metabolic+calories&source=web&ots=vdlTrZK_dG&sig=mC9Vdxnhlqyd3t59L9D88XurL-w&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result
at the bottom of page 160 and top of 161
basic metabolic 1200 calories
growth and maintenance 150 to 300 calories
maintaining temperature and chemical concentration in cells 150 calories
so add them up
1200+150+150=1500 calories

This doesnot include the amount of energy required to digest food or to move around throughout your day.

(note*I realize it does say kilocalories but when we talk about calories we are really talking about kilocalories)
Sarkhaan
25-11-2008, 05:44
As I said. It is from what I know. But searched and found you a link
http://books.google.ca/books?id=9magDnBkdZAC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=basic+metabolic+calories&source=web&ots=vdlTrZK_dG&sig=mC9Vdxnhlqyd3t59L9D88XurL-w&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result
at the bottom of page 160 and top of 161
basic metabolic 1200 calories
growth and maintenance 150 to 300 calories
maintaining temperature and chemical concentration in cells 150 calories
so add them up
1200+150+150=1500 calories

This doesnot include the amount of energy required to digest food or to move around throughout your day.

(note*I realize it does say kilocalories but when we talk about calories we are really talking about kilocalories)

This ignores the difference in body size and base metabolism of the individual. A very short person with a slow metabolism may only need a few hundred calories. A very tall person with a high metabolism may need a few thousand.
Sparkelle
25-11-2008, 05:48
This ignores the difference in body size and base metabolism of the individual. A very short person with a slow metabolism may only need a few hundred calories. A very tall person with a high metabolism may need a few thousand.

Indeed, this means if you have a large body you will burn more calories per day maintaining that body. That is why the last 10 pounds are always the hardest to lose.
Calculate youyr metabolic rate based on height and weight here.
http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm
Sarkhaan
25-11-2008, 05:54
Indeed, this means if you have a large body you will burn more calories per day maintaining that body. That is why the last 10 pounds are always the hardest to lose.
Calculate youyr metabolic rate based on height and weight here.
http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm

Not inherently, for the same reason that BMI fails. Someone who is 6'2" and weighs 200 lbs is technically "overweight" by BMI...however, he could be jacked and solid muscle, or could be fat. Very different. Same body size, incredibly different metabolism.

And internet calculators are never accurate. Define "moderatly active". Moderatly active in Boston would include walking quite a bit every day (I would say a mile or more). Moderatly active in a small town might include walking at work.
Sparkelle
25-11-2008, 06:14
Not inherently, for the same reason that BMI fails. Someone who is 6'2" and weighs 200 lbs is technically "overweight" by BMI...however, he could be jacked and solid muscle, or could be fat. Very different. Same body size, incredibly different metabolism.

And internet calculators are never accurate. Define "moderatly active". Moderatly active in Boston would include walking quite a bit every day (I would say a mile or more). Moderatly active in a small town might include walking at work.

hmmmm well I guess I have an impossible task. The book doesn't account for different body sizes and calculators are unreliable. But, if you look at the first link to the book you will notice it is aimed at eating disorder patients. So as long as your 200 pound 6ft2 man has at least as much muscle as an anorexic chick he willl need his 1500 calories a day to maintain his body.
Sarkhaan
25-11-2008, 06:22
hmmmm well I guess I have an impossible task. The book doesn't account for different body sizes and calculators are unreliable. But, if you look at the first link to the book you will notice it is aimed at eating disorder patients. So as long as your 200 pound 6ft2 man has at least as much muscle as an anorexic chick he willl need his 1500 calories a day to maintain his body.

He'll need much more than her.

However, a 5'10 girl may need much less. There is actually a high incidence of obeasity among midgets because of this.
Callisdrun
25-11-2008, 06:24
Calling people names for being fat or saying how they're disgusting is fucking mean. They already probably don't feel that great about it.
TJHairball
25-11-2008, 06:32
He's talking about children. Full-grown men and women who are really active generally need more calories than 1800.
"Children" ranging from 9 to 18. Peak value 13-14 year old girls. Most of our campers weighed more than I did. Some weighed more than 400 pounds, and had probably reached their adult height. 1800 calories a day seemed to be enough to meet minimal nutritional requirements (carefully balanced) while providing just enough "zip" that my campers would be willing to hike ten miles if I simply said please nicely enough.

We also had some adult staff sticking to that diet. Now, in order to maintain weight... yes, you need more than that. According to the electric impedance/weight analyzer thingamabob, I needed 2500 calories a day to meet basal.

In practice, I was eating >5000 calories a day and losing weight slowly. I was also more active than any of our campers.

You do want to key your metabolism up as much as possible. Ways to do this include eating breakfast and - surprise! - exercising in ways that cue your body to build muscle. The more active you become, and the more muscle you build, the easier it is to burn calories. In the other direction, it's a vicious cycle. I recommend taking up swimming.
Enormous Gentiles
25-11-2008, 06:42
hmmmm well I guess I have an impossible task. The book doesn't account for different body sizes and calculators are unreliable. But, if you look at the first link to the book you will notice it is aimed at eating disorder patients. So as long as your 200 pound 6ft2 man has at least as much muscle as an anorexic chick he willl need his 1500 calories a day to maintain his body.


He'll need much more than her.

However, a 5'10 girl may need much less. There is actually a high incidence of obeasity among midgets because of this.

Well, this 6'2", 210 lb (probably moderately active) man needs 2600+ calories to maintain my weight. And, quite frankly, that seems way high to me. Not that I count calories (I don't), but I know that I don't eat that much, and my weight isn't going down. *shakes fist at Father Time*

Of course, I only eat once or twice a day, which isn't good when it comes to speeding up the metabolism. That must be where it gets me.

And I really hate BMI. I'm not overweight, but my BMI of 27 says I am. Apparently, I need to lose 15 lbs to make the computer love me. :(
Nadkor
25-11-2008, 07:06
I sit around on my arse all day doing nothing other than sleeping or watching TV, interrupted only by the occasional trip to the shop for a pack of fags or something to drink, walking to a bar to drink, or going to a club in the evening, and I'm skinny as fuck.

I don't eat much, mind, food's too expensive.

Anyway, my inability to put on weight despite doing next to no exercise and living a more sedimentary lifestyle than a rock gives me some sympathy for fat people who try and lose weight and can't. Sometimes people just are the size they are, really. No sympathy for fat people who don't even try and then complain about people commenting about their weight.
Jocabia
25-11-2008, 07:28
"Children" ranging from 9 to 18. Peak value 13-14 year old girls. Most of our campers weighed more than I did. Some weighed more than 400 pounds, and had probably reached their adult height. 1800 calories a day seemed to be enough to meet minimal nutritional requirements (carefully balanced) while providing just enough "zip" that my campers would be willing to hike ten miles if I simply said please nicely enough.

We also had some adult staff sticking to that diet. Now, in order to maintain weight... yes, you need more than that. According to the electric impedance/weight analyzer thingamabob, I needed 2500 calories a day to meet basal.

In practice, I was eating >5000 calories a day and losing weight slowly. I was also more active than any of our campers.

You do want to key your metabolism up as much as possible. Ways to do this include eating breakfast and - surprise! - exercising in ways that cue your body to build muscle. The more active you become, and the more muscle you build, the easier it is to burn calories. In the other direction, it's a vicious cycle. I recommend taking up swimming.

So your claim is that a camp that actually knew what they were talking about encouraged children of varying sizes and ages all to eat exactly the same amount of calories? 1800 calories regardless of height, weight, activity or age? What's the name of this camp? I'll call them tomorrow. I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit.

As for the rest, I'm not sure who you're replying to, but it wasn't me.
Ryadn
25-11-2008, 07:35
Posts 105 - 108 merged from other thread.

I was wondering how this thread ballooned overnight (pun intended).
Gauntleted Fist
25-11-2008, 07:42
Calling people names for being fat or saying how they're disgusting is fucking mean. They already probably don't feel that great about it.You know, I've never really been insulted for being fat. Just for lacking common sense. :p
Ryadn
25-11-2008, 07:46
I am sure most of you thin people eat much more junk than I do. I have issues that cause my obesity that have nothing to do with what I eat. Things that are very much out of my control.

I ate, like, seven cookies, ice cream and a slice of some deliciously fudgey cake today. I'm not "thin", but I'm certainly within healthy BMI limits. This is why I can not judge the overweight and obese. I have the eating and exercise habits of a lazy ten year old.
Ryadn
25-11-2008, 07:54
From what I know
If you lay in bed all day you will burn 1500 calories per day. So I doubt your numbers.

From what I've always read/been told, it's much closer to 900.
Ryadn
25-11-2008, 07:57
While this is true, unfortunately, the problem with reducing it to an equation is... calories in can CAUSE you to expend more calories. Your metabolism is effected by how you eat.

It's not remarkably simple. At all. What you don't acknowledge is that they not only put them 1800 calories, but they have a balanced diet and eat at regular times.

While thermo equations apply, the calories out is greatly effected by a variety of factors that are not simply activity. Oversimplifying confuses people. You oversimplified.

And if you look up a few posts, now poor AB is once again confused.

"Calories out" also doesn't just mean exercise and lifestyle, either. We don't think about the multitude of things our body expends energy on, and how they can shut down. If it was that simple of an equation, no one would have lived through the concentration camps. Put your body in starvation mode and it finds a remarkable number of processes it can go without to hold onto those calories.
Ryadn
25-11-2008, 08:03
Well, this 6'2", 210 lb (probably moderately active) man needs 2600+ calories to maintain my weight. And, quite frankly, that seems way high to me. Not that I count calories (I don't), but I know that I don't eat that much, and my weight isn't going down. *shakes fist at Father Time*

Of course, I only eat once or twice a day, which isn't good when it comes to speeding up the metabolism. That must be where it gets me.

And I really hate BMI. I'm not overweight, but my BMI of 27 says I am. Apparently, I need to lose 15 lbs to make the computer love me. :(

My ex is 5'7" and 160 pounds which puts him at an even 25 for BMI, but his body fat is low (around 15%) and he's VERY active. He needs to eat at least 3,000 calories a day to maintain his weight and muscle mass. So the amount of muscle accounts for a lot.

He also eats five or six small meals a day and snacks on mixed nuts, cut up fruit and veggies, etc.
BunnySaurus Bugsii
25-11-2008, 08:39
If I can find the link I'll post it, but it was about a couple of guys who decided to connect a pair of treadmills to their computers to see if they could run across the game world in World of Warcraft.

I've been trying to work out if that's practical. I'm getting the idea that a hard workout produces about 90 watts. Should be enough to run a laptop ...

All the stories I found about it though, they weren't actually powering the laptops, just using the treadmill to control their characters.

Youtube Race across Azeroth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbG5O2NfUzM)
TJHairball
25-11-2008, 08:51
So your claim is that a camp that actually knew what they were talking about encouraged children of varying sizes and ages all to eat exactly the same amount of calories? 1800 calories regardless of height, weight, activity or age? What's the name of this camp? I'll call them tomorrow. I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit.

As for the rest, I'm not sure who you're replying to, but it wasn't me.
Coincidentally, they all had the same activity level. At camp. And yes, they did have them all lined up for the same caloric intake at the cafeteria. Easiest way to try to make sure they got three squares plus snacks. We tried to encourage the kids to hit the salad bar heavy - they had no limit on most of it, only on dressing.

You can give them a ring. The owner has renamed and reconfigured the camp; I believe it's currently "Camp Shining Stars." At the time I worked there, it was "Camp Timbercreek," but still had ties to ECU (namely, we had a medical student from ECU over doing a study on the kids the first summer I was there, and a number of kids on scholarship thanks to ECU funding). As a matter of fact, as weight loss camps go, 1800 calories is apparently high.

Now, I'm not going to say that it wouldn't have been more efficient in some ways to have them on individualized diets tailored more precisely to their needs... but one-size-fits-all was close enough for the following:

a.) Campers of all sizes - ranging from about 150 pounds to 460 pounds, from what I can tell - had enough energy to get through their physically active day. This is the sports side of things. I was heavily involved in this. You had to make sure the kids stayed hydrated, but if you did, most of them got going pretty well after the first week.

b.) No malnutrition noticed. See above. Also see previous note about the med student we had running around one summer. Now, I will add one caveat. We had one staff member, who started at 580 pounds, who was hypoglycemic, who ran into blood sugar problems after about a week on 1800 calories a day. And apparently hadn't consulted a doctor before hand. The 400-460 pound campers were fine, as was the one middle aged just-over-400-pound staffer I worked with one summer who stuck to the program. Which amazed me at the time.

c.) Campers of all sizes both lost weight and improved their physical fitness. Yes, even the small ones. See activity level.

Now, I'm not going to say that it couldn't be made better. Especially given the relative paucity of study on childhood obesity and weight loss. However, it seemed as legit as they come in that particular field. You should know better than to call bullshit on anything I put forth as a fact, Jocabia.
Hotwife
25-11-2008, 16:18
Coincidentally, they all had the same activity level. At camp. And yes, they did have them all lined up for the same caloric intake at the cafeteria. Easiest way to try to make sure they got three squares plus snacks. We tried to encourage the kids to hit the salad bar heavy - they had no limit on most of it, only on dressing.

You can give them a ring. The owner has renamed and reconfigured the camp; I believe it's currently "Camp Shining Stars." At the time I worked there, it was "Camp Timbercreek," but still had ties to ECU (namely, we had a medical student from ECU over doing a study on the kids the first summer I was there, and a number of kids on scholarship thanks to ECU funding). As a matter of fact, as weight loss camps go, 1800 calories is apparently high.

Now, I'm not going to say that it wouldn't have been more efficient in some ways to have them on individualized diets tailored more precisely to their needs... but one-size-fits-all was close enough for the following:

a.) Campers of all sizes - ranging from about 150 pounds to 460 pounds, from what I can tell - had enough energy to get through their physically active day. This is the sports side of things. I was heavily involved in this. You had to make sure the kids stayed hydrated, but if you did, most of them got going pretty well after the first week.

b.) No malnutrition noticed. See above. Also see previous note about the med student we had running around one summer. Now, I will add one caveat. We had one staff member, who started at 580 pounds, who was hypoglycemic, who ran into blood sugar problems after about a week on 1800 calories a day. And apparently hadn't consulted a doctor before hand. The 400-460 pound campers were fine, as was the one middle aged just-over-400-pound staffer I worked with one summer who stuck to the program. Which amazed me at the time.

c.) Campers of all sizes both lost weight and improved their physical fitness. Yes, even the small ones. See activity level.

Now, I'm not going to say that it couldn't be made better. Especially given the relative paucity of study on childhood obesity and weight loss. However, it seemed as legit as they come in that particular field. You should know better than to call bullshit on anything I put forth as a fact, Jocabia.

In basic training (back in 1987) you got to eat, but if you looked up from your plate, you were told "get up, get out, you're done!".

I believe we got far more than 1800 calories a day, but significantly more physical activity than the typical weight loss camp.

Everyone lost body fat, and almost everyone lost weight. We all looked really good after 13 weeks. You could try to shove more food in at the scheduled meal times, but time didn't allow for you to put in enough calories to make up for the ones you were burning.

Walking with a pack everywhere at a fast pace seems to burn a lot of calories - more than running on a per mile basis.
Myrmidonisia
25-11-2008, 17:05
In basic training (back in 1987) you got to eat, but if you looked up from your plate, you were told "get up, get out, you're done!".

I believe we got far more than 1800 calories a day, but significantly more physical activity than the typical weight loss camp.

Everyone lost body fat, and almost everyone lost weight. We all looked really good after 13 weeks. You could try to shove more food in at the scheduled meal times, but time didn't allow for you to put in enough calories to make up for the ones you were burning.

Walking with a pack everywhere at a fast pace seems to burn a lot of calories - more than running on a per mile basis.
I knew Marines in recon units that lost weight eating three MREs a day. I remember hearing that they are 5000 Calories, each. That's a lot of work to burn that many Calories a day.
Verdigroth
25-11-2008, 17:45
God, telling an obese person that she just has to try harder than the rest, is akin to telling a paraplegic that all he has to do is get out of the wheelchair and walk - it ain't that simple.

hmm don't see a connection here...I think you need a better analogy
Verdigroth
25-11-2008, 17:47
I knew Marines in recon units that lost weight eating three MREs a day. I remember hearing that they are 5000 Calories, each. That's a lot of work to burn that many Calories a day.

Around 2000 actually...at least that is what I was told when I stuffed my face with them...and yes my friends and I would lose weight in the field. Granted we were constantly pushing our bodies past breaking points and suffering under adverse conditions...but meh
TJHairball
25-11-2008, 18:33
I knew Marines in recon units that lost weight eating three MREs a day. I remember hearing that they are 5000 Calories, each. That's a lot of work to burn that many Calories a day.

Around 2000 actually...at least that is what I was told when I stuffed my face with them...and yes my friends and I would lose weight in the field. Granted we were constantly pushing our bodies past breaking points and suffering under adverse conditions...but meh
Lost about 15 pounds (involuntarily) over two months eating probably about 5400 a day while working at camp. That's about a 900 calorie per day deficiency, so call it about 6300 kcal/day. The guys working on the pipeline in Alaska have it worse (7,000 calories a day, which probably about matches the marines you knew) ...

... and then there's Micheal Phelps training for the Olympics. Like 12,000 or something. Seriously.
Jello Biafra
25-11-2008, 18:56
... and then there's Micheal Phelps training for the Olympics. Like 12,000 or something. Seriously.Lucky him.
Well, except for the training part.
Hayteria
25-11-2008, 19:14
There's this somewhat acrimonious thread about whether or not large people should be required to pay for two seats when travelling by air. It's turned into a large, nasty discussion about obesity and whether obese people cause there own disability. The answer is yes ... and no.

I am obese. I am also physically active. I also eat less than 1700 calories a day (I counted). I could lose the weight if I ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable. Many obese people are in the same situation - otherwise healthy, just unable to lose the weight without, essentially, putting themselves in a self-made concentration camp. Some have actual physical problems that cause the weight gain and corresponding difficulty in losing it. Some are lazy - so are some thin people.

Calling us names, telling us how disgusting we are, attempting to make us feel worse than we already do - doesn't help. We know that obesity is dangerous. We know it's unattractive - we know, damn it. Instead of telling us something we already know, why don't you tell us a healthy way to lose the weight without eating food that tastes vile. Give us a way to lose without having to be miserable for life. You should know - we've tried everything - every diet, every exercise plan, everything short of surgery and illegal drugs - the results are questionable and impermanent. Some of my friends have even tried the surgery - with varying, dangerous and sometimes unpleasant results.

Be supportive, be productive, be pro-active. But stop slamming us for something that is much more difficult for us than it is for you - we live with it waking and sleeping. You only have to deal with it when you're in our company.
Well said. I'm skinny but I don't believe in being judgemental to those who are overweight, and I doubt they'd be as easy a target as they are if we lived in a more science-centric society wherein people were better informed and reminded of the complex biological circumstances, (such as that body weights aren't entirely a consequence of our own actions, that there are genetic factors involved, such as endomorphic vs. ectomorphic genes, etc.) and more focused on them than on the arbitrary cultural perspectives...
Myrmidonisia
25-11-2008, 19:53
Around 2000 actually...at least that is what I was told when I stuffed my face with them...and yes my friends and I would lose weight in the field. Granted we were constantly pushing our bodies past breaking points and suffering under adverse conditions...but meh
As an NFO (A-6 Intruder), I had far less need for three MREs a day. I'd pick the 'good' parts from two a day and still gain weight when we went to the field. If you can imagine what the term 'field' meant to the air wing, I mean.
Hotwife
25-11-2008, 20:09
As an NFO (A-6 Intruder), I had far less need for three MREs a day. I'd pick the 'good' parts from two a day and still gain weight when we went to the field. If you can imagine what the term 'field' meant to the air wing, I mean.

It probably meant that the chow hall might occasionally grill steaks for you, you had access to a cold shower, and you didn't have to hump a ruck any further than to the door of your tent.
Myrmidonisia
25-11-2008, 20:34
It probably meant that the chow hall might occasionally grill steaks for you, you had access to a cold shower, and you didn't have to hump a ruck any further than to the door of your tent.
Or that we had to double up in the BOQ... Or miss Happy Hour at the bar...

Fixed wing squadrons don't deploy to the field very well. We had a lot of GP tents, but we still had all the avionics vans to drag around. Besides, we still needed that 8000 feet of runway and you don't often find those just anywhere. Usually not too far from a bowling alley (hot food) or an Officer's Club (food + booze). And for that sacrifice, we did get paid extra.
Jocabia
26-11-2008, 02:30
Coincidentally, they all had the same activity level. At camp. And yes, they did have them all lined up for the same caloric intake at the cafeteria. Easiest way to try to make sure they got three squares plus snacks. We tried to encourage the kids to hit the salad bar heavy - they had no limit on most of it, only on dressing.

You can give them a ring. The owner has renamed and reconfigured the camp; I believe it's currently "Camp Shining Stars." At the time I worked there, it was "Camp Timbercreek," but still had ties to ECU (namely, we had a medical student from ECU over doing a study on the kids the first summer I was there, and a number of kids on scholarship thanks to ECU funding). As a matter of fact, as weight loss camps go, 1800 calories is apparently high.

Now, I'm not going to say that it wouldn't have been more efficient in some ways to have them on individualized diets tailored more precisely to their needs... but one-size-fits-all was close enough for the following:

a.) Campers of all sizes - ranging from about 150 pounds to 460 pounds, from what I can tell - had enough energy to get through their physically active day. This is the sports side of things. I was heavily involved in this. You had to make sure the kids stayed hydrated, but if you did, most of them got going pretty well after the first week.

b.) No malnutrition noticed. See above. Also see previous note about the med student we had running around one summer. Now, I will add one caveat. We had one staff member, who started at 580 pounds, who was hypoglycemic, who ran into blood sugar problems after about a week on 1800 calories a day. And apparently hadn't consulted a doctor before hand. The 400-460 pound campers were fine, as was the one middle aged just-over-400-pound staffer I worked with one summer who stuck to the program. Which amazed me at the time.

c.) Campers of all sizes both lost weight and improved their physical fitness. Yes, even the small ones. See activity level.

Now, I'm not going to say that it couldn't be made better. Especially given the relative paucity of study on childhood obesity and weight loss. However, it seemed as legit as they come in that particular field. You should know better than to call bullshit on anything I put forth as a fact, Jocabia.

You know I was a wrestler. We had not trouble with having enough energy. I used to eat about 1000 calories the day before a tournament. I ate some food the day of the tournament, probably about 2000 calories, but I had no trouble with energy. I assure you a wrestling tournament is more active than that of your camp. In fact, I think you'd likely kill many of your campers if you had them keep our activity level for a day.

We also had a doctor. He told us we were very healthy. He encouraged the guys that were "overweight" to lose weight. We had guys whose growth was affected by the level of the diet. We had people who actually caused permanent problems due to the ridiculous level of eating.

We had plenty of energy. Had we been adults, such behavior would have landed a significant percentage of our group in the hospital.

As I said, obviously, children function differently. Any expert on nutrition would tell you that it's entirely different. Children should get more calories, but their tolerances are much, much broader. They can recover from so much more than that which would kill the average adult.

And, yep, when your argument sounds like bullshit, and it does, I call bullshit. It's late tonight, but I will be calling them tomorrow. (Actually, I just left a message for Ira Green.)
Ryadn
26-11-2008, 02:42
Lost about 15 pounds (involuntarily) over two months eating probably about 5400 a day while working at camp. That's about a 900 calorie per day deficiency, so call it about 6300 kcal/day. The guys working on the pipeline in Alaska have it worse (7,000 calories a day, which probably about matches the marines you knew) ...

... and then there's Micheal Phelps training for the Olympics. Like 12,000 or something. Seriously.

I think that's an urban legend. He's said himself that the accounts of what he ate during training were not based at all in reality.
Jocabia
26-11-2008, 02:49
Incidentally, here is a summary of the practices written about your camp.


http://www.ecu.edu/cs-admin/news/poe/905/timbercreek.cfm
“Camp Timber Creek is very intriguing,” said Dr. David Collier, an assistant professor of pediatrics and associate director of the Pediatric Healthy Weight and Treatment Center at ECU. “It has shown me some kids I thought were so far out … can successfully lose a lot of weight. The bad news is when they come back. Many if not most of them gain all of that weight back.”

You probably don't want to use unsuccessful weight loss programs as a model. The idea isn't to drop weight. Hell, the levels of weight loss they're talking about (an average of 17 pounds) can be accounted from mostly in water weight.

The weight loss range was from 14 to 55 pounds with an average of 17 pounds. It's pretty easy to tell that a significant majority of people fall in the 14 to 17 pound range based on that range. I could in a couple of days get a person's weight down if I got them to lose water weight.

It's not surprising that something smells like bullshit when it is. The camp has a fairly bad recidivism rate. That's what happens when the dietary modifications you make don't work. You have limited success and then you slip right back. 6 weeks of success is not particularly unusual or interesting. It's the long-term of whether or not people are successful. According to the article and the site, people are returning year after year. If the camp was teaching them a better lifestyle, people wouldn't need to regularly return.

As a personal trainer, last I checked, I had ONE person who was still obese. One. Obviously, the people who are doing the work are the biggest factor. No question about that.

Ask Kyronea when he gets back from boot camp if my advice works. Kyronea is an amazing specimen. He should be very proud of himself. I wouldn't dare to take credit for his succes. He did, however, follow my advice. He's had incredible succes for over a year I believe and accomplished his overarching goal which put him into boot camp recently.

EDIT: I'll note that I didn't do a ton of reserch here. I typed in the former name of the camp and EDU (because that was to bits of information you gave me) and it was the first link that popped up.
The Great Lord Tiger
26-11-2008, 02:53
Just to add my two cents?

I'm 6'3", and I weighed 255 lbs last May. I have since plateaued at 195 lbs, having reached that particular weight in September. That's 60 lbs in four months.

Did I exercise? Not really. I mean, no more than I used to (which wasn't much at all). My secret was: eating less. Basically, instead of overeating (which I did all the time), I just ate less of what my meals were.

I know that this spits in the face of everyone who says exercise is crucial, so sorry.
Amor Pulchritudo
26-11-2008, 02:54
...ate less than 1000 calories a day and doubled my physical activity. If I did this, I would be miserable...

I think you'd be amazed how many "thin" or even "normal" people have to do this to be the weight that they are.

What you've said is definitely fair. I think people who hate "fat" people are absolutely disgusting. It's not even their business.

As for my thoughts, I don't really consider it a disability unless it's caused by a medical problem, but I definitely recognise that some obese people also have eating disorders.
Jocabia
26-11-2008, 02:55
Just to add my two cents?

I'm 6'3", and I weighed 255 lbs last May. I have since plateaued at 195 lbs, having reached that particular weight in September. That's 60 lbs in four months.

Did I exercise? Not really. I mean, no more than I used to (which wasn't much at all). My secret was: eating less. Basically, instead of overeating (which I did all the time), I just ate less of what my meals were.

I know that this spits in the face of everyone who says exercise is crucial, so sorry.

People say that exercise is crucial to good health, not weight loss. You can lose weight a variety of ways. Most of them are not healthy.
The Great Lord Tiger
26-11-2008, 02:56
People say that exercise is crucial to good health, not weight loss. You can lose weight a variety of ways. Most of them are not healthy.

Oh, okay. Well, just to let you know, I am healthy -- I originally wanted to lose weight to go to USNA, and now, well, I can meet Navy reqs for physical fitness (number of reps for crunches, push-ups, chin-ups, time on the mile, etc.)

My point remains that weight loss occurred almost entirely without exercise.
Jocabia
26-11-2008, 02:57
I think you'd be amazed how many "thin" or even "normal" people have to do this to be the weight that they are.

What you've said is definitely fair. I think people who hate "fat" people are absolutely disgusting. It's not even their business.

As for my thoughts, I don't really consider it a disability unless it's caused by a medical problem, but I definitely recognise that some obese people also have eating disorders.

Obesity IS a medical problem.
Dyakovo
26-11-2008, 02:59
Oh, okay. Well, just to let you know, I am healthy -- I originally wanted to lose weight to go to USNA, and now, well, I can meet Navy reqs for physical fitness (number of reps for crunches, push-ups, chin-ups, time on the mile, etc.)

My point remains that weight loss occurred almost entirely without exercise.

That is not something that works for everybody though.
Amor Pulchritudo
26-11-2008, 02:59
Obesity IS a medical problem.

I KNOW that, but I personally don't think it's a DISABILITY unless it's caused by other factors.

If someone is lazy, doesn't exercise and eats unhealthy food all day and has no intention to do something about his or her weight, I don't see it as a disability.

However, very few people who are actually obese are like that. The obese people I know have either had eating disorders, thyroid problems or metabolic problems.
Dyakovo
26-11-2008, 03:04
I KNOW that, but I personally don't think it's a DISABILITY unless it's caused by other factors.
Agreed
If someone is lazy, doesn't exercise and eats unhealthy food all day and has no intention to do something about his or her weight, I don't see it as a disability.
Strictly speaking it might be, although if you know for a fact that the person is in the condition they are in due to laziness and over-eating it's a bit harder to have sympathy for them.
However, very few people who are actually obese are like that. The obese people I know have either had eating disorders, thyroid problems or metabolic problems.
I don't know about very few, but unlike some of the posters I realize that not everybody is fat because they and lazy fuckers who don't know when to stop eating.


As a note, I am overweight; and the reason I became overweight was too much food (and the wrong type of food) and not enough exercise.
Builic
26-11-2008, 03:06
I used to be fat but now im just muscular and it hides the fat. My friend is fat but everyone loves him, and hes hot so bein fa isnt bad as long as u can get some muscle on it or wrk on it
Amor Pulchritudo
26-11-2008, 03:09
As a note, I am overweight; and the reason I became overweight was too much food (and the wrong type of food) and not enough exercise.

Also... different topic, but...

Lots of people probably eat the same way as you do and are not overweight. Weight is not always the best indicator of health.
Amor Pulchritudo
26-11-2008, 03:11
I used to be fat but now im just muscular and it hides the fat. My friend is fat but everyone loves him, and hes hot so bein fa isnt bad as long as u can get some muscle on it or wrk on it

Muscle can not hide fat.
Fat is the outermost layer. I had a six pack, but then I gained weight, and no matter how strong my stomach was, you couldn't see the six pack. It's common sense. Fat - like pants - goes on the outside.

Being toned and fit is great though, and it will help your overall appearance, but muscle simply won't "hide" fat.