NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sure you all know of this high caffine soft drink, which is supposed to keep a mature mind alert. So why are we selling it to kids and allowing them to go into a hyperactive frenzy?

I think that an age restriction of 18 should be applied to all high caffine products. We should not be selling this to minors. I work in a Supermarket, I have to do so, and I hate it.

Here's a news report on the Subject. Yes I know it's the Daily Mail, but for once they got it right. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1027304/Cynically-marketed-toxic-disturbing-Why-Red-Bull-Britains-real-drink-problem.html)

What do you think? Should we act before our youth becomes a bunch of mindless hyenas? Or is it too late anyway?

Sell it to them. It's not that bad for God's sake.

I agree on the 18 restriction. As I was telling you the other day, a trend started here in Spain like 5 years ago where kids would mix energy drinks with beer at clubs. A few teens died from the consumption of this drink.

An energy drink, when used too often can screw up your sleeping patterns, can affect your heart rate, to name a few. It's effects can also last for up to a month after consumption. They are, indeed, poison.

No. If parents don't want their kids to drink it, that is their call. Same as coffee, tea, caffine pills, etc.

Sell it to them. It's not that bad for God's sake.

Obviously you've not had abuse hurled at you by a dozen kids drinking Red Bull. And then they throw the cans at you.

Eh. Putting two cups of coffee worth of a stimulant in a little can and selling it for 20 times the price of two cups of coffee is a little silly I guess, but probably harmless.

Obviously you've not had abuse hurled at you by a dozen kids drinking Red Bull. And then they throw the cans at you.

I have, actually. It was closer to 7 or so kids, but still. Better them getting a caffeine rush from red bull than getting drunk, stoned etc.

I agree on the 18 restriction. As I was telling you the other day, a trend started here in Spain like 5 years ago where kids would mix energy drinks with beer at clubs. A few teens died from the consumption of this drink.

An energy drink, when used too often can screw up your sleeping patterns, can affect your heart rate, to name a few. It's effects can also last for up to a month after consumption. They are, indeed, poison.
It was likely the alcohol, and not the energy drink, that did them in. Though, I have a strong affinity for vodka red bull...I drink alot and have yet to die from it.

And the same arguments can be said about coffee and tea as well, or anything that contains caffine and sugar (soda, chocolate).

As with everything else good and fun in the world, it's all about moderation. You shouldn't only be drinking red bull, but it's no different than soda, coffee, etc.

No. If parents don't want their kids to drink it, that is their call. Same as coffee, tea, caffine pills, etc.

It's comments like that which have left the UK in the state it is in.

Obviously you've not had abuse hurled at you by a dozen kids drinking Red Bull. And then they throw the cans at you.

There's probably a positive correlation there, but blaming the drink, again...

It's comments like that which have left the UK in the state it is in.

Bullshit.

It's comments like that which have left the UK in the state it is in.

Why? The fact that there are bad parents is neither the fault nor the responsibility of the state.

Moreover, I'd like to see any evidence that your statement is true.

Additionally, we aren't talking something like heroin. It's high levels of caffine and sugar. If schools want to ban it from their campuses, so be it. Out side of school, it is the parents decision.

Unless you'd like to ban candy and soda from kids as well...because it has identical effects.

What do you think?I think that Red Bull sucks. :D

Energy drinks never work for me. Not even those little five-hour energy shots.

Obviously you've not had abuse hurled at you by a dozen kids drinking Red Bull. And then they throw the cans at you.

You could always fight back ya know.

No, I don't think we should restrict things just because they're 'bad' for us.

Also, coke and pepsi get kids high, so does sugar. More kids eat and drink those, let's ban them.

Bullshit.

I wouldn't go as far as calling this bullshit just because you happen to disagree with what Zero thinks. It is not. This is a genuine concern.

Why? The fact that there are bad parents is neither the fault nor the responsibility of the state.

The kids often buy the drink without the parents there. If there is an age restriction, they cannot buy!

Moreover, I'd like to see any evidence that your statement is true.

Old story, but evidence. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1435409.stm)

Additionally, we aren't talking something like heroin. It's high levels of caffine and sugar. If schools want to ban it from their campuses, so be it. Out side of school, it is the parents decision.

And views like that are again, the reason it's such a bad situation. Stop being so apathetic!

Unless you'd like to ban candy and soda from kids as well...because it has identical effects.

Soda does NOTHING like what Red Bull does. I drank it once... I had a headache for 2 days. I don't understand how kids can handle the stuff.

tl;dr-admis

I drink relentless, which is even more hardcore than red bull apparently, but it doesn't have much of an effect on me, if any, but it does with my friend.

I think there should be an attempt to limit things like red bull

I guess I'll be able to make even more money selling it to kids. I wonder if I could get more for Red Bull than I do for alcohol and tobacco?

It was likely the alcohol, and not the energy drink, that did them in. Though, I have a strong affinity for vodka red bull...I drink alot and have yet to die from it.

When it was all investigated, the reason for the death of these kids was heart failure induced by the high concentration of taurine in their bodies. Taurine is one of the ingredients of many an energy drink.

And the same arguments can be said about coffee and tea as well, or anything that contains caffine and sugar (soda, chocolate).

It's not about banning the sale of these drinks. It's more of putting a proper age consumption restriction. Of course, many adults could become addicted, but they're adults. I don't think teens should be submitted to addiction so early on.

Not that it wouldn't happen, drugs are out there, but this could one less thing to get addicted to.

As with everything else good and fun in the world, it's all about moderation. You shouldn't only be drinking red bull, but it's no different than soda, coffee, etc.

I agree. It's all about moderation, but it is clear that teens aren't known for that. Are they?

I wouldn't go as far as calling this bullshit just because you happen to disagree with what Zero thinks. It is not. This is a genuine concern.

Please it's just energy drink with a higher amount of sugar and caffeine than your candy bars and soda.

It's only dangerous if you gorge yourself on it....pretty much like anything else in this world.

Also Vampire concern isn't "OMG THE CHILDREN!!" It's more like "Lets ban Red Bull because people who drink it are mean to me! Maybe if we ban it, they'll stop being mean!"

Which is a weak argument.

Also Vampire concern isn't "OMG THE CHILDREN!!" It's more like "Lets ban Red Bull because people who drink it are mean to me! Maybe if we ban it, they'll stop being mean!"

Thats not the only reason. I'm just sick of hyped up kids on Red Bull hanging around everywhere.

Thats not the only reason. I'm just sick of hyped up kids on Red Bull hanging around everywhere.

Sorry, your argument fails, you lose the debate.

Please it's just energy drink with a higher amount of sugar and caffeine than your candy bars and soda.

It's only dangerous if you gorge yourself on it....pretty much like anything else in this world.

Also Vampire concern isn't "OMG THE CHILDREN!!" It's more like "Lets ban Red Bull because people who drink it are mean to me! Maybe if we ban it, they'll stop being mean!"

Which is a weak argument.

Be it because he's concerned about energy drink effects on kids or because he's tired of getting bullied by hyped up kids, it is still HIS GENUINE concern on a subject. There's no reason to call it BS.

The kids often buy the drink without the parents there. If there is an age restriction, they cannot buy!

Wrong. If there is an age restriction, kids will have a bigger challenge getting it. They will still be able to buy, as will all things with age restrictions.

Not to mention, yes, kids can do things that their parents don't want them to do. And most will at some point. However, by being an active parent, you reduce the likelyhood.

Old story, but evidence. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1435409.stm)

Not the statement I wanted evidence of. I meant your comment that statements such as mine were the reason the UK was in its current state.
Your article, additionally, never actually defends or offers evidence between Red Bull and death, aside from it being suspected. Corelation does not equal causation.

And views like that are again, the reason it's such a bad situation. Stop being so apathetic!
A) Prove that
B) Me saying that parents should do their jobs and that it is not the concern of the state to ban things "bad" for us is not apathy.



Soda does NOTHING like what Red Bull does. I drank it once... I had a headache for 2 days. I don't understand how kids can handle the stuff.So you might have caffine sensativity. Soda has caffine. And sugar. They do the same exact thing...the only difference is dosage (in the same way that 50 mg of asprin does the same thing as 100 mg of asprin)

the chemical doesn't function differently just because it is in a can that says "red bull" rather than "coca cola". The same effects can be achieved by drinking lots of coke. Or coffee. Or tea. Or eating alot of chocolate.

Your one time experience with a head ache is not evidence that red bull is somehow magically different. You may have been dehydrated. Or just have had a headache. Or could be sensitive to caffine.

Moreover, it is not reason to ban something.

Sorry, your argument fails, you lose the debate.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UW_v6G3m2to

Be it because he's concerned about energy drink effects on kids or because he's tired of getting bullied by hyped up kids, it is still HIS GENUINE concern on a subject. There's no reason to call it BS.

But what if the hyped up kids wern't bullying him, would he still be concern? My money is on....no, he wouldn't be.

But what if the hyped up kids wern't bullying him, would he still be concern? My money is on....no, he wouldn't be.

Is there any reason to believe he wouldn't be concerned regardless? Can you bet on it? No.

But what if the hyped up kids wern't bullying him, would he still be concern? My money is on....no, he wouldn't be.

I've been concerned for a long time. Because I care about my country, and it's people.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UW_v6G3m2to

Ok, so...got any link to the research itself instead of a YouTube video?

Yes, absolutely, we should start legislating people's decisions for them. Let's face it, people make bad choices, but the state knows better. The fewer basic liberties people have the better. /sarcasm

I've been concerned for a long time. Because I care about my country, and it's people.

and yet, you didn't post the dangers of Red Bull until the hyped up kids started throwing cans at you....curious.

Thats not the only reason. I'm just sick of hyped up kids on Red Bull hanging around everywhere.

Kids are kids. Unless they're drugged up on methamphetamine, er, I mean methylphenidate (Ritalin) they're going to be pretty hyper even if they're not on caffeine.

But then again, who cares about devastating side effects if you can just plunk the kids in front of the TV for eight hours and forget about them? That'll keep them docile and out of your hair, and with any luck they'll commit suicide before they get too old and start asking questions.

Yes, absolutely, we should start legislating people's decisions for them. Let's face it, people make bad choices, but the state knows better. The fewer basic liberties people have the better. /sarcasm

:fluffle:

Please it's just energy drink with a higher amount of sugar and caffeine than your candy bars and soda.Sugar doesn't make kids 'hyper'. (http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/education/ask/index.html?quid=241)

When it was all investigated, the reason for the death of these kids was heart failure induced by the high concentration of taurine in their bodies. Taurine is one of the ingredients of many an energy drink.

And, I will note, there is research to back that up.
Yes, high doses are bad...though, I'm not sure it can be pinned entirely upon taurine.

Additionally, certain vitamins (such as K) can be highly toxic. These are contained in large ammounts in vitamin pills. Some people take too many of these pills on a regular basis. Should the deaths of 3 or 4 people lead to restrictions placed upon the rest of society?

It's not about banning the sale of these drinks. It's more of putting a proper age consumption restriction. Of course, many adults could become addicted, but they're adults. I don't think teens should be submitted to addiction so early on.

Not that it wouldn't happen, drugs are out there, but this could one less thing to get addicted to.

The argument, it would seem, is not so much about addiction, but risk of death. If the issue is addiction, then there needs to be a ban on all caffine and taurine containing substances to minors...coffee, tea, soda, chocolate.

I agree. It's all about moderation, but it is clear that teens aren't known for that. Are they?
Sheltering them doesn't teach them moderation. It teaches them to do 21 shots on their 21st birthday.

Ok, so...got any link to the research itself instead of a YouTube video?

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSSYD5846120080815?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews

and yet, you didn't post the dangers of Red Bull until the hyped up kids started throwing cans at you....curious.

I've been considering this thread for a while. And the kids have been throwing cans for even longer than that.

and yet, you didn't post the dangers of Red Bull until the hyped up kids started throwing cans at you....curious.

Dr. Judy Owens, on Energy Drinks and their risks (http://www.lifespan.org/services/nutrition/articles/energydrinks.htm).

Sheltering them doesn't teach them moderation. It teaches them to do 21 shots on their 21st birthday.

Heh...my cousin actually did that on her 21st Birthday....she was smashed...it was funny.

Heh...my cousin actually did that on her 21st Birthday....she was smashed...it was funny.

I did it too. But I started very early. And don't remember leaving the bar.

Though, did make Spanish class fun the next morning.

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSSYD5846120080815?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews

Ok, did they test anything else, like Tea, Soda or candy to see if it has the same effect? Did it have a control group?

I've been considering this thread for a while. And the kids have been throwing cans for even longer than that.

Two words: Kick Boxing.

And, I will note, there is research to back that up.
Yes, high doses are bad...though, I'm not sure it can be pinned entirely upon taurine.

Additionally, certain vitamins (such as K) can be highly toxic. These are contained in large ammounts in vitamin pills. Some people take too many of these pills on a regular basis. Should the deaths of 3 or 4 people lead to restrictions placed upon the rest of society?

The banning that occurred here was selling Red Bull mixed with beer (or any other energy drink mixed with beer. I'm not sure if any other alcohol/ED drink has been banned). The energy drink is still being sold here in Spain.

Sheltering them doesn't teach them moderation. It teaches them to do 21 shots on their 21st birthday.

It doesn't teach them a lot of things, true. But it could help, regardless.

Ok, did they test anything else, like Tea, Soda or candy to see if it has the same effect? Did it have a control group?

I'm too tired from work to continue looking for links. I'll look again tomorrow.

Two words: Kick Boxing.

I am not a violent person, and I will never lower myself to their level.

I am not a violent person, and I will never lower myself to their level.

Self defense isn't lowering yourself to their levels, it's telling them to leave you the fuck alone.

Self defense isn't lowering yourself to their levels, it's telling them to leave you the fuck alone.

I'll chalk that up as something YOU would do. Doesn't make it right, though.

Self defense isn't lowering yourself to their levels, it's telling them to leave you the fuck alone.

They have not pysically attacked yet.

Here's the main problem - rising Caffene addiction.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1088210/Doctors-warn-schoolgirl-addict-stop-drinking-Red-Bull-die.html

Many present the argument that coffee and soda have sugar and caffeine in them too - true, but the energy drinks have other ingredients that "spike" the effects of caffeine and sugar in the human body. Also, energy drinks have higher levels of caffeine than any real soda available, you don't pee it out as easily as you do with, say, Pepsi.

18 limit would be fine, but what would happen to all the current (pre-)teen addicts, I wonder?

They have not pysically attacked yet.

I can see something behind Wil's request and penchant for the silly. Why, Zero, do YOU (and check for links and the like) think energy drinks, beside making teens hyper, are bad?

The banning that occurred here was selling Red Bull mixed with beer (or any other energy drink mixed with beer. I'm not sure if any other alcohol/ED drink has been banned). The energy drink is still being sold here in Spain.

I've never heard of it being mixed with beer, and (though, this could be a result of a fun hangover) the very thought of it makes me a little nautious.

I know that's what the current actual ban is, but I'm more concerned about the potential ban along the lines of what Vamp is talking about.

This is making me think of a chart I saw in Time Magazine a while back about percieved risk vs. reality. Basically, it showed the massive number of people that died from things like heart disease, cancer, etc., but the things primarily focused on in the news (terrorism, West Nile virus, ebola, etc) make up almost no one. I'll see if I can find it.

Why should we be so concerned about a handful of people dieing because they made a stupid choice when, in reality, it is such a tiny risk?

It doesn't teach them a lot of things, true. But it could help, regardless.
I disagree. I think learning to do these things...ration consumption of a product, understand what is going into your body...is far more helpful than banning based on what is a truly insignificant risk.

I can see something behind Wil's request and penchant for the silly. Why, Zero, do YOU (and check for links and the like) think energy drinks, beside making teens hyper, is bad?

Because I feel that it is causing extreme hyperactivity amongst our kids, making them clumsy and irrational. And many of them seem to be becomming addicted to Caffine, and energy drinks. In truth, I fear for the next generation of kids, doped up on a cheap high.

I'll chalk that up as something YOU would do. Doesn't make it right, though.

So, refusing to stand up for yourself, portraying yourself at this martyr who won't "stoop to their level" is right?

The phrase "Your rights end where the other person's nose begins" applies here. Kids throw cans at you, so you have the right to kick their asses and tell them to not do it again, after the ass kicking.

I mean what is he going to do if his wife or children been beaten up or worse? You think either one of them are going to find comfort that their husband and father took the "high road" of non-violence?

How about age limit of 15? That'd (presumably) keep kids from overdosing themselves, but you wouldn't be banning it completely. And no more than 1 per customer? :tongue:

So, refusing to stand up for yourself, portraying yourself at this martyr who won't "stoop to their level" is right?

The phrase "Your rights end where the other person's nose begins" applies here. Kids throw cans at you, so you have the right to kick their asses and tell them to not do it again, after the ass kicking.

It happens outside my Supermarket. I take much greater pleasure in watching the security guard we have (BIG scary guy) Go out and ban them from the area for life. :)

I mean what is he going to do if his wife or children been beaten up or worse? You think either one of them are going to find comfort that their husband and father took the "high road" of non-violence?

That is different. That would be protecting others.

How about age limit of 15? That'd (presumably) keep kids from overdosing themselves, but you wouldn't be banning it completely. And no more than 1 per customer? :tongue:

Now, that idea is actually pretty clever. It's a nice compromise.

I've never heard of it being mixed with beer, and (though, this could be a result of a fun hangover) the very thought of it makes me a little nautious.

It tastes horrible, let me tell you.

I know that's what the current actual ban is, but I'm more concerned about the potential ban along the lines of what Vamp is talking about.

This is making me think of a chart I saw in Time Magazine a while back about percieved risk vs. reality. Basically, it showed the massive number of people that died from things like heart disease, cancer, etc., but the things primarily focused on in the news (terrorism, West Nile virus, ebola, etc) make up almost no one. I'll see if I can find it.

Why should we be so concerned about a handful of people dieing because they made a stupid choice when, in reality, it is such a tiny risk?

I do understand where you're coming from. If they start banning things like energy drinks, perhaps they will start banning other things that are more important based on risk and not what's real.

What I propose is, as we do with alcohol and tobacco, sell energy drinks (the ones with high concentrations of caffeine) at an appropriate age. Not before.

I disagree. I think learning to do these things...ration consumption of a product, understand what is going into your body...is far more helpful than banning based on what is a truly insignificant risk.

I'm not pro banning anything. I'm pro restricting these drinks and sell them to people at the appropriate age.

So, refusing to stand up for yourself, portraying yourself at this martyr who won't "stoop to their level" is right?

The phrase "Your rights end where the other person's nose begins" applies here. Kids throw cans at you, so you have the right to kick their asses and tell them to not do it again, after the ass kicking.

I mean what is he going to do if his wife or children been beaten up or worse? You think either one of them are going to find comfort that their husband and father took the "high road" of non-violence?

Wil, for fuck's sake, we're talking about energy drinks.

I'm sure you all know of this high caffine soft drink, which is supposed to keep a mature mind alert. So why are we selling it to kids and allowing them to go into a hyperactive frenzy?

I think that an age restriction of 18 should be applied to all high caffine products. We should not be selling this to minors. I work in a Supermarket, I have to do so, and I hate it.

Here's a news report on the Subject. Yes I know it's the Daily Mail, but for once they got it right. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1027304/Cynically-marketed-toxic-disturbing-Why-Red-Bull-Britains-real-drink-problem.html)

What do you think? Should we act before our youth becomes a bunch of mindless hyenas? Or is it too late anyway?

I don't let my kids drink red bull, or any of the other similar products. But then, the oldest is 10. And I do let her drink coffee, in moderation.

So long as the dose is controlled, I'm not too worried.

Wil, for fuck's sake, we're talking about energy drinks.

Yes, we are, and based on what effect they have on younger than adult bodies, we could as well be talking about serious drugs. Cocaine, anyone? Crystal meth? They both rot the brain as well, only the biochemical pathway is slightly different.

That is different. That would be protecting others.

How do you expect to protect others when are you aren't even willing to protect yourself?

Yes, we are, and based on what effect they have on younger than adult bodies, we could as well be talking about serious drugs. Cocaine, anyone? Crystal meth? They both rot the brain as well, only the biochemical pathway is slightly different.

I know. Energy drinks have serious effects on kids' bodies.

In any case, I'm going to retire now. I'm sick and the meds got me all queasy.

How do you expect to protect others when are you aren't even willing to protect yourself?

Wil, shut up. You have no idea what sort of man I am.

Wil, shut up. You have no idea what sort of man I am.

It's a legit question, and you are right I don't know what kind of man you are. All I know is what you post on here.

From your post on this thread alone, you let others protect you, you won't protect yourself because you don't want to stoop to their level, and yet you're hoping to magically protect others even though you never taken the first, and most important step in learning how to protect yourself.

It's a legit question, and you are right I don't know what kind of man you are. All I know is what you post on here.

From your post on this thread alone, you let others protect you, you won't protect yourself because you don't want to stoop to their level, and yet you're hoping to magically protect others even though you never taken the first, and most important step in learning how to protect yourself.

I've fought before. I just choose not to fight needlessly, especially when there's a group of them 3 times my size.

It's a legit question, and you are right I don't know what kind of man you are. All I know is what you post on here.

From your post on this thread alone, you let others protect you, you won't protect yourself because you don't want to stoop to their level, and yet you're hoping to magically protect others even though you never taken the first, and most important step in learning how to protect yourself.

Sorry, Wil - but this is bullshit.

I'm a pretty big guy. I very rarely fight to protect my own 'honour', or whatever, because I don't give enough of a shit about that kind of crap, and because when I fight back, I always end up looking like the bad guy.

On the other hand, if someone screws around with one of my friends or family, I'll take them out.

This whole 'if you won't protect yourself, you can't protect anyone else' thing is crap. Sorry to break it to you.

It's a legit question, and you are right I don't know what kind of man you are. All I know is what you post on here.

From your post on this thread alone, you let others protect you, you won't protect yourself because you don't want to stoop to their level, and yet you're hoping to magically protect others even though you never taken the first, and most important step in learning how to protect yourself.

Beating up children, even if they have thrown cans at you, is not self-defence it is being an asshole.

Here's the main problem - rising Caffene addiction.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1088210/Doctors-warn-schoolgirl-addict-stop-drinking-Red-Bull-die.html
That is quite the extreme case. And yeah, assuming that behavioral changes in a teen are just part of her growing up is pretty bad, given how many teens try out drugs and the like.

Red Bull actually has less caffine than the average serving of coffee (80-135 mg per serving for brewed coffee, 80 mg for Red Bull).

Many present the argument that coffee and soda have sugar and caffeine in them too - true, but the energy drinks have other ingredients that "spike" the effects of caffeine and sugar in the human body. Also, energy drinks have higher levels of caffeine than any real soda available, you don't pee it out as easily as you do with, say, Pepsi.

18 limit would be fine, but what would happen to all the current (pre-)teen addicts, I wonder?
Um...no they don't. A list of Red Bull ingredients:
Water, sucrose, glucose, sodium citrates, carbon dioxide, taurine, glucuronolactone, caffeine, inositol, niacin, pantothenic acid, vitamin B6, vitamin B12, caramel and riboflavin

Lets go step by step:
water. Pretty simple. Sucrose, glucose, caramel, all sugars. Sodium citrates are preservatives. Carbon dioxide...again, pretty simple. Niacin, pantothenic acid, B6, B12, and Riboflavin are all B vitamins...those are water soluable, and your body will only use as much as it needs before peeing the rest out. They provide energy and concentration. Inositol used to be classified as a B vitamin before it was found that it was made by the human body (vitamins, by definition, can't be made by the body). Taurine...an amino acid that works as an antioxidant. Has not been shown to provide energy, but may be harmful in high doses. glucuronolactone, a detoxicant, provides "sense of well being" and some energy. Not linked to brain cancer, as stated in some urban legends. Caffine...well, as stated, less than coffee.

So there we go. It is a carbonated drink with the B complex vitamins, caffine, sugar, taurine, and glucuronolactone. None of these help you absorb caffine or sugar faster or change how caffine reacts in the body.

Additionally, none of this has any impact on how fast you pee them out compared to other sodas. If anything, higher caffine would speed urination.
Because I feel that it is causing extreme hyperactivity amongst our kids, making them clumsy and irrational. And many of them seem to be becomming addicted to Caffine, and energy drinks. In truth, I fear for the next generation of kids, doped up on a cheap high.
hyperactivity isn't always bad, teens are all clumsy and irrational, with or without caffine.
Becoming addicted to caffine...well, again, we are okay with it if they use soda, candy, coffee or tea. Hell, we're fine with it so much so that the US has coffee breaks, and the UK has tea time, meant to be placed when people need that "pick me up".

And this isn't exactly meth we're talking about. It isn't a "high" any more than any other caffine-containing beverage.

I'd bet money that if you put an age restriction on energy drinks, popularity with teens will skyrocket. :/ My peers love to look badass.

You're an idiot. Should we ban coffee sales to under 18s too? A can of Red Bull contains roughly the same dose of caffine as an average cup of coffee.

I think we can all agree that the only fair and sensible option is to ban kids.

It tastes horrible, let me tell you.I might have to try it tonight and report back with the findings.



I do understand where you're coming from. If they start banning things like energy drinks, perhaps they will start banning other things that are more important based on risk and not what's real.

What I propose is, as we do with alcohol and tobacco, sell energy drinks (the ones with high concentrations of caffeine) at an appropriate age. Not before.
See, it's that bold part that gets me. Despite what reality says, we have this perception that energy drinks are packed with caffine. This just isn't the case.

Here's some comparisons (these are in mg per serving/per liter [where applicable]):

Tea: 50 /281
Coffee (brewed):80-135 /386–652
Coffee (drip):115-175 /555–845
Espresso:100 /1691–2254
Red Bull: 80 /320
Coca Cola: 34 /96
Excedrin: 65
Hershey's Dark Chocolate: 31

Caffine content per serving is comparable to weak brewed coffee, and less per liter.

I'm not pro banning anything. I'm pro restricting these drinks and sell them to people at the appropriate age.
Oh, I know you aren't talking banning. I don't mean to imply that you are. But I just don't see the reasoning. It seems that there is far too much misinformation to make this decision.
Yes, we are, and based on what effect they have on younger than adult bodies, we could as well be talking about serious drugs. Cocaine, anyone? Crystal meth? They both rot the brain as well, only the biochemical pathway is slightly different.
Wow. Comparing caffine and a handful of standard vitamins and naturally occuring chemicals (mind you, when I say naturally occuring, I mean the human body makes them, not like "arsenic is natural") to cocaine and meth. That is quite intellectually dishonest.

Show any proof that Red Bull or any of its components "rot the brain".

I think we can all agree that the only fair and sensible option is to ban kids.

I am Wilgrove and I approve this proposal.

First, thank you Sark for evidence. Evidence is a handy thing.

The real issue is moderation, which can only be taught. It should be taught by responsible parents and by school systems. Red Bull doesn't kill people. Binging does.

The same way drinking too much alcohol affects you negatively.
The same way eating too much McDonalds affects you negatively.
The same way taking too many vitamins affects you negatively.
The same way drinking too much water affects you negatively. ( Water intoxication can kill you, ban water! (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16614865/) )

Yes, really, its all about moderation. Teach, don't ban.

doesn't Red bull fuck with your heart?

doesn't Red bull fuck with your heart?

Moderation. It fucks with your heart if you have too much at once.

But this applies to everything with caffeine, and actually a ton of things besides caffeine as well. This world is chalk full of dangerous things that need moderation, including stuff we need to survive, like vitamins and water.

doesn't Red bull fuck with your heart?

Again, no more so than any other taurine/caffine containing food or drink.

Caffine does fuck with your heart. Taurine is needed in the human body, but there is evidence that it could be harmful in large doses (not definate, and it does have health benefits...and is even needed to some extent)

Caffine equivalents:
One 200 milligram caffeine pill
One 12 fluid ounce cup of regular Starbucks coffee (355 millilitres)
One and one quarter 16 fluid ounce cans of Monster Energy (590 millilitres)
One and a half pounds of milk chocolate[a] (680 grams)
Two 8 fluid ounce containers of regular coffee (470 millilitres)
1/2 tube of Spazzstick Caffeinated Lip Balm
Two Foosh Energy Mints
Two Buzz Bites Chocolate Energy Chews
Two and a half 10 fluid ounce bottles of Bawls caffeinated drink (740 millilitres)
Three 6 fluid ounce cups of black tea (0.54 litres) (70 mg per 6 oz cup)
Three standard Excedrin pills
Three 8 fluid ounce cups of Red Bull energy drink (710 millilitres)
Four 8 fluid ounce cups of Vault energy drink (1.0 litre)
Five 1 fluid ounce shots of espresso from robusta beans (150 millilitres)
Five 8 fluid ounce cups of Mountain Dew (1.2 litres)
Five 12 fluid ounce cans of typical soda (1.8 litres) (variable)
Eight and a half 8 fluid ounce cups of Coca-Cola Classic (68 fl oz is approximately 2.0 litres)
Ten 8 fluid ounce cups of green tea (2.4 litres)
Fifty 8 fluid ounce cups of decaffeinated coffee (12 litres)


It should be noted that the story Vamp linked to about the girl who was "addicted" was actually drinking about 2 or 3 cups of coffee at her highest consumption...something that is not insanely high (4 cups of coffee a day is considered addiction)

Obviously you've not had abuse hurled at you by a dozen kids drinking Red Bull. And then they throw the cans at you.
Which isn't much reason to place an age restriction on anything. Kids on a sugar rush could do the exact same thing. Or bored kids with a less than concrete sense of right and wrong but perfectly healthy diets.
Soda does NOTHING like what Red Bull does. I drank it once... I had a headache for 2 days. I don't understand how kids can handle the stuff.
I've had it several times, once with vodka. No ill effects that I'm aware of.
I guess I'll be able to make even more money selling it to kids. I wonder if I could get more for Red Bull than I do for alcohol and tobacco?
I'll have to check the profit margin on that stuff......
Sheltering them doesn't teach them moderation. It teaches them to do 21 shots on their 21st birthday.
I actually plan to do exactly this.....



Well, 21 drinks in a club called XXI.
How about age limit of 15? That'd (presumably) keep kids from overdosing themselves, but you wouldn't be banning it completely. And no more than 1 per customer? :tongue:
This would necessitate some kind of ID card for 15 year olds. Can children that young get any kind of ID, aside from passports?
It's a legit question, and you are right I don't know what kind of man you are. All I know is what you post on here.

From your post on this thread alone, you let others protect you, you won't protect yourself because you don't want to stoop to their level, and yet you're hoping to magically protect others even though you never taken the first, and most important step in learning how to protect yourself.
Getting yourself on the receiving end of assault charges or angry parents/big brothers/big friends isn't protecting yourself, it's asking very politely for a big steaming pile of trouble.
I'd bet money that if you put an age restriction on energy drinks, popularity with teens will skyrocket. :/ My peers love to look badass.
This does seem likely. Forbidden fruit kinda thing.
I think we can all agree that the only fair and sensible option is to ban kids.
I find your ideas intriguing, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
doesn't Red bull fuck with your heart?
Only if you drink a lot of it. Much like any other stimulant, I dare say.

Though I have heard that having it with alcohol fucks with your heart considerably more. The layman's logic is that the red bull speeds up your heart, while the alcohol slows it, thus confusing the fuck out of your heart and asking for something bad to happen to it.

I'm sure you all know of this high caffine soft drink, which is supposed to keep a mature mind alert. So why are we selling it to kids and allowing them to go into a hyperactive frenzy?

I think that an age restriction of 18 should be applied to all high caffine products. We should not be selling this to minors. I work in a Supermarket, I have to do so, and I hate it.

Here's a news report on the Subject. Yes I know it's the Daily Mail, but for once they got it right. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1027304/Cynically-marketed-toxic-disturbing-Why-Red-Bull-Britains-real-drink-problem.html)

What do you think? Should we act before our youth becomes a bunch of mindless hyenas? Or is it too late anyway?

What, take my Red Bull away? I'm not addicted and it has no effects on me. You take it away, I'll kill you...I'LL KILL YOU!

seriously, I'm not really big on Red Bull, I mean, they're not bad, but I don't really care.

Oh great, now I gotta go work at Burger King til fuckin ten.

It was likely the alcohol, and not the energy drink, that did them in. Though, I have a strong affinity for vodka red bull...I drink alot and have yet to die from it.

And the same arguments can be said about coffee and tea as well, or anything that contains caffine and sugar (soda, chocolate).

As with everything else good and fun in the world, it's all about moderation. You shouldn't only be drinking red bull, but it's no different than soda, coffee, etc.

"Moderation" and "kids" in the same argument? Swing and a miss.

So let the little fuckers get kidney stones and develop caffeine tolerances so high that they need half a Colombian plantation to wake up. Natural selection will take care of this problem. If they can't figure out that the solution for lack of energy and sleepiness is -- wait for it -- SLEEPING, then I don't think much of anything is going to help them.

"Moderation" and "kids" in the same argument? Swing and a miss.

So let the little fuckers get kidney stones and develop caffeine tolerances so high that they need half a Colombian plantation to wake up. Natural selection will take care of this problem. If they can't figure out that the solution for lack of energy and sleepiness is -- wait for it -- SLEEPING, then I don't think much of anything is going to help them.

I wonder how many are drinking red bull for energy. I, for one, only drink it because it tastes nice.

I wonder how many are drinking red bull for energy. I, for one, only drink it because it tastes nice.

You have GOT to be kidding? Good Lord, the stuff is like cough syrup and Campari with a hint of Hawaiian Punch.

No disputing taste, I know, but yeesh!

You have GOT to be kidding? Good Lord, the stuff is like cough syrup and Campari with a hint of Hawaiian Punch.

No disputing taste, I know, but yeesh!

They're addicted to it, they can't tell how crappy it is.

They're addicted to it, they can't tell how crappy it is.

Ah, the Starbuck's Effect.

I believe my opinion on this thread can be summed up by a quote from The moon is a harsh mistress:
Must be a yearning deep in human heart to stop other people from doing as they please. Rules, laws— always for other fellow. A murky part of us, something we had before we came down out of trees, and failed to shuck when we stood up. Because not one of those people said: "Please pass this so that I won't be able to do something I know I should stop." Nyet, tovarishchee, was always something they hated to see neighbors doing. Stop them "for their own good"—not because speaker claimed to be harmed by it.

I can't honestly see any rational reason to put age restrictions on Red Bull, unless we're going to start restricting sales of coffee, tea, and soda pop as well. Caffeine is caffeine, regardless of how you get it into your system - and while it unquestionably does have negative effects if you consume enough of it, so do countless other substances. If we were setting age restrictions on any substance that could cause harm, kids basically wouldn't be able to buy food, which seems a bit silly.

Well, here's a Times (UK) online article on the topic:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article4537831.ece

In case of doubt, simply restrict everything. The only reason prohibitionism fails is because it doesn't go far enough. Since democracy is too weak and way too reasonable to keep up such a strict regime, we'll need to transform our societies into bellicose police states. That may sound extreme, but it's a small price to pay for a glorious future where everything is safe, sane and sanitized.

I think this thread has allowed me to come to a conclusion.

-Opinion is devided, with most favouring parental control.

-The drink does not have the same effect on everyone

-It tastes foul :p

In case of doubt, simply restrict everything. The only reason prohibitionism fails is because it doesn't go far enough. Since democracy is too weak and way too reasonable to keep up such a strict regime, we'll need to transform our societies into bellicose police states. That may sound extreme, but it's a small price to pay for a glorious future where everything is safe, sane and sanitized.

Exactly. I don't favor a ban. I favor an absence of mawkish sympathy when someone ignores advice to moderation at their own risk. It's a tragedy, but not that big of one.

You have GOT to be kidding? Good Lord, the stuff is like cough syrup and Campari with a hint of Hawaiian Punch.

No disputing taste, I know, but yeesh!

Yes, energy drinks taste horrible. Although I can stomach one called Cintrón. They sell it here in Spain, I don't know if anywhere else. It comes on Cranberry, Mandarin, Strawberry and Fruit Punch. It's actually passable.

A rich variety of factors and variables aside, it's just not logical to feel guilt when someone else uses his or her individual freedom to do something that is bad for themselves. It's just not possible to always protect people against themselves.

Yes, energy drinks taste horrible. Although I can stomach one called Cintrón. They sell it here in Spain, I don't know if anywhere else. It comes on Cranberry, Mandarin, Strawberry and Fruit Punch. It's actually passable.

Well I hope it's passable. I don't favor drinking anything that I can't pass. Think of the bloating!

Well I hope it's passable. I don't favor drinking anything that I can't pass. Think of the bloating!

And the burping. *nod*

I try not to drink them in general. At one point I was using them 3 or 4 times a week and they truly screwed up my system. I wasn't sleeping properly.

"They will all taste oblivion, which tastes just like Red Bull, which is disgusting!" O'Malley- Red vs. Blue

"They will all taste oblivion, which tastes just like Red Bull, which is disgusting!" O'Malley- Red vs. Blue

You win this thread! *runs*

I've been concerned for a long time. Because I care about my country, and it's people.

Yes, because swarms of teenagers, all hyper as fuck, are charging round every town in the UK, assaulting people. I barely escaped with my life going to the shops last night.

I'm sure you all know of this high caffine soft drink, which is supposed to keep a mature mind alert. So why are we selling it to kids and allowing them to go into a hyperactive frenzy?

I think that an age restriction of 18 should be applied to all high caffine products. We should not be selling this to minors. I work in a Supermarket, I have to do so, and I hate it.

Here's a news report on the Subject. Yes I know it's the Daily Mail, but for once they got it right. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1027304/Cynically-marketed-toxic-disturbing-Why-Red-Bull-Britains-real-drink-problem.html)

What do you think? Should we act before our youth becomes a bunch of mindless hyenas? Or is it too late anyway?

Sure. It's called Natural Selection. And on that note, I'm outta here and I must continue packing for my trip.

i think it would be strange you can drink alcohol from age 16 here it would sound wrong if you let people drink caffeine soft drink on the age of 18

i think it would be strange you can drink alcohol from age 16 here it would sound wrong if you let people drink caffeine soft drink on the age of 18

Ah, but you can only buy it from the age of 18, and VKZ is proposing that you can't buy it until you're 18, he didn't specifically mention a consumption age.

...Does this only happen to teens in Britain? o_0

No, seriously. Do we not have this problem in the US? I can't find anything on it, other than some weird thing about some guy ranting about his hatred for Rockstar.

Ah, but you can only buy it from the age of 18, and VKZ is proposing that you can't buy it until you're 18, he didn't specifically mention a consumption age.

aah yes that way

...Does this only happen to teens in Britain? o_0

No, seriously. Do we not have this problem in the US? I can't find anything on it, other than some weird thing about some guy ranting about his hatred for Rockstar.

i'm from belgium :D

i'm from belgium :DThat's awesome, but what I meant was the whole 'drinking Red Bull will induce a "hyperactive frenzy" in teenagers' thing. :p

ow sorry gauntled fist i was thinking you were talking about my post

sorry my apologies :p

...Does this only happen to teens in Britain?

No, only one of the 3 countries in Britain has a so called "problem" with red bull drinking teens, and it's not even that bad. Every now and then a bunch of kids gets a bid high and does something stupid, but that happens without red bull.

I'm sure you all know of this high caffine soft drink, which is supposed to keep a mature mind alert. So why are we selling it to kids and allowing them to go into a hyperactive frenzy?

First off, the excuse of hyperactivity gets used way to much any more so please don't even go there. Children and young adults* are very active to begin with for all the reasons that have been determined so long ago that it should be common knowledge to most people by now. Suffice to say, people of a certain age group[See above*] have a lot of energy to expended and that is a normal biological function for the vast majority of people in that age group. However, that is not what you call hyperactivity, which is a medical condition vs someone having a physical reaction to the consumption of a stimulant. Your not the first person to confused the two nor will you be the last.

With that stated, in answer to your first question. It's something we like to call market economics, specifically Supply and Demand. Someone decides to come out with a new product, if a demand for that product is shown it switches over to the supply side of the scale. People demand Red Bull through purchasing it, businesses gear up to supply that demand. That's how it works in it's basic form, however it should be keep in mind that it's a much more complex being when it is seen in it's full light.

I think that an age restriction of 18 should be applied to all high caffine products. We should not be selling this to minors. I work in a Supermarket, I have to do so, and I hate it.

That's one way to go, but reality of human behavior say otherwise. However, before I support you in banning someone else’s privileges I would want to see not just one, but many peer-reviewed studies on the effect of energy drinks on the human body of all age groups. Right now, I could find not even one peer-review study after some searching.

Why should we not be selling this to minors? Continuing on that train of though, if it's as bad as you imply, why sell it at all? What makes minors so special?

Lastly, if you hate your job so much quit and don't say I need this job. Take some time and look for a new job while your working. Or ask to be transferred to a different store or a new position or ask for different hours. Your options are limitless.

What do you think? Should we act before our youth becomes a bunch of mindless hyenas? Or is it too late anyway? Obviously you've not had abuse hurled at you by a dozen kids drinking Red Bull. And then they throw the cans at you.

I think your overacting to an issue-which is of course to be expected as we all have emotions-due to the circumstances in your life that you feel our out of your control. To restore that control you have decided to undertake the goal to ban in this case red bull, which is what you see based on your limited observations as the root of the problem. However, your letting your emotions control you and as a result your failing to see the entire picture in all of this.

Your right, I haven't had abuse hurled at me by a dozen kids and had tons of objects thrown at me, but I have had to deal with my fair share of what can be best described as bullies. You probably already realize this, but people are assholes and I hate to tell you this, but banning Red Bull will not solve your problem with these so called kids.

You have four options to choose from that will solve your kids problem. You can A. Confront them, B. Avoid them, C. Get revenge on them or D. File a police complaint against them. It's called Assault and Battery for a reason.
Those are your options and good luck.

In closing, there is no reason to act as the youth of the world are not becoming a bunch of mindless hyenas. Which, I might add is based on your limited experience with a few bad apples of humanity, not that this fact is probably much comfort for you. Finally, it is neither too late nor too early as the vast majority of people are law abiding upstanding members of society. Do not condemn nor impose an extreme on the vast majority because a few in the minority decided to show their vast stupidity and immaturity to you.

Sorry for the long rant...

Um, I don't. Although I do give my students candy sometimes, so I'm sure their parents love me anyway.

Giving red bull to a small child is like dropping a cat in a pool. It's just a bad idea, and you're going to come away with serious scars.

I'm sure you all know of this high caffine soft drink, which is supposed to keep a mature mind alert. So why are we selling it to kids and allowing them to go into a hyperactive frenzy?

I think that an age restriction of 18 should be applied to all high caffine products. We should not be selling this to minors. I work in a Supermarket, I have to do so, and I hate it.

Here's a news report on the Subject. Yes I know it's the Daily Mail, but for once they got it right. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1027304/Cynically-marketed-toxic-disturbing-Why-Red-Bull-Britains-real-drink-problem.html)

What do you think? Should we act before our youth becomes a bunch of mindless hyenas? Or is it too late anyway?

You drank a lot of Red Bull growing up, didn't you? :p


Ban the sale of Red Bull to minors or they'll grow up to be like VKZ!!!!!
;)

They have not pysically attacked yet.

Ummm, strictly speaking if they have thrown cans at you, yes they have...

I'm sure you all know of this high caffine soft drink, which is supposed to keep a mature mind alert. So why are we selling it to kids and allowing them to go into a hyperactive frenzy?

I think that an age restriction of 18 should be applied to all high caffine products. We should not be selling this to minors. I work in a Supermarket, I have to do so, and I hate it.

Here's a news report on the Subject. Yes I know it's the Daily Mail, but for once they got it right. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1027304/Cynically-marketed-toxic-disturbing-Why-Red-Bull-Britains-real-drink-problem.html)

What do you think? Should we act before our youth becomes a bunch of mindless hyenas? Or is it too late anyway?



No.

how much caffeine is based in coffee? Should that be banned from students to? If something should be banned due to a drug within it there should be an established maximum limit.

Sorry teachers no more morning latte for you

Obviously you've not had abuse hurled at you by a dozen kids drinking Red Bull. And then they throw the cans at you.

you have won the nerdiest person on the internet award. though to be honest they were likely going to do that to you regardless what they were drinking.

Bleh Red Bull. In fact, bleh energy drinks. Utterly depressing to see peoples' arses continually widen as they 'need' the stuff more every day.

"Ah withdrawal symptoms, will neck a can"
"Oh ffs"

wont stop em from drinking it

Wouldn't you have to ban all other energy drinks, along with things like Gatorade, bottled Lipton, egg nog, etc?

Seriously, when I was growing up, my Mom just didn't let me have those kinds of things until I was around 15 or 16 by which time I knew well enough I had darn well better not be stupid and crazy even if I was feeling like going banannass! lol

I honestly think that most problems with energy drinks and other hyperactivity issues, well at least a good 50% anyway is mostly just parental guidance issues. Not really bad parents, just have too many 'electronic babysitters' these days and I think parenting has changed to the point that people don't think about things enough when it comes to their kids anymore.

Think about it, how often do you see parents holding their kids hands compared to 20-30 years ago? Now they have friggin leashes! LOL

I've drank coffee daily since I was 5-6 years old.

I'm still opposed to offering energy drinks to kids because of the other ingridients in it...including the various chemical compounds & Energy part.

btw. Am I the only one who has difficulties comprehending light energy drinks (ie. sugarfree)? Isn't the point of an energy drink to give off energy as well as warding of tiredness?

I've drank coffee daily since I was 5-6 years old.

I'm still opposed to offering energy drinks to kids because of the other ingridients in it...including the various chemical compounds & Energy part.

btw. Am I the only one who has difficulties comprehending light energy drinks (ie. sugarfree)? Isn't the point of an energy drink to give off energy as well as warding of tiredness?

As I said before, there aren't tons of strange compounds in these drinks.
Um...no they don't. A list of Red Bull ingredients:
Water, sucrose, glucose, sodium citrates, carbon dioxide, taurine, glucuronolactone, caffeine, inositol, niacin, pantothenic acid, vitamin B6, vitamin B12, caramel and riboflavin

Lets go step by step:
water. Pretty simple. Sucrose, glucose, caramel, all sugars. Sodium citrates are preservatives. Carbon dioxide...again, pretty simple. Niacin, pantothenic acid, B6, B12, and Riboflavin are all B vitamins...those are water soluable, and your body will only use as much as it needs before peeing the rest out. They provide energy and concentration. Inositol used to be classified as a B vitamin before it was found that it was made by the human body (vitamins, by definition, can't be made by the body). Taurine...an amino acid that works as an antioxidant. Has not been shown to provide energy, but may be harmful in high doses. glucuronolactone, a detoxicant, provides "sense of well being" and some energy. Not linked to brain cancer, as stated in some urban legends. Caffine...well, as stated, less than coffee.

So there we go. It is a carbonated drink with the B complex vitamins, caffine, sugar, taurine, and glucuronolactone. None of these help you absorb caffine or sugar faster or change how caffine reacts in the body.

To modify the post to your argument, none of these chemicals are not present in other common foods or synthesized by the human body. B vitamins have long been known to provide energy, as has glucuronolactone (thouch, much less frequently used). Taurine is a strange one for them to continue to include. These "other ingredients" aren't particularly bad.


And yeah, the lack of sugar will decrease some of the energy burst, but most of that energy is coming from the caffine.

Taurine is a strange one for them to continue to include. As far as I know, it doesn't do anything energy-wise.

As far as I know, it doesn't do anything energy-wise.

which is why I think it's strange that they continue to include it. In standard doses, it is good for you, but given the bad publicity (and lack of evidence that it provides energy), as well as the potential for bad effects in high doses, it seems like something that would be worth cutting out. Though, I wouldn't doubt that there is some kind of placebo effect going on with it.

As I said before, there aren't tons of strange compounds in these drinks.

To modify the post to your argument, none of these chemicals are not present in other common foods or synthesized by the human body. B vitamins have long been known to provide energy, as has glucuronolactone (thouch, much less frequently used). Taurine is a strange one for them to continue to include. These "other ingredients" aren't particularly bad.
Taurine is one such ingredient. B vitamins as such aren't bad, but overuse can have negative effects.

Then there are these (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/08/18/1186857834956.html) type of news - Combine that with lower body mass and underdeveloped body (hormonal balance, brain chemistry, etc..) and you have a cocktail which is extremely understudied.

Infact, I think there should be more extensive study on the effects of red bull, battery and other energy drinks to human body in general - Especially from the long term health impacts aspect.
And yeah, the lack of sugar will decrease some of the energy burst, but most of that energy is coming from the caffine.
AFAIK caffeine doesn't have energy content worth mentioning...?

Le sigh.

This is exactly what's wrong with the world these days. Know-nothing moralists using sketchy data to declare that kids these days are in a crisis, and that parents need to be taught how to raise children their way. That's how we get assclowns like Tipper Gore, Jack Thompson, and the mothers against D&D. Next think you know, kids will be wrapped in cotton until age 18 to ensure their safety.

Taurine is one such ingredient. B vitamins as such aren't bad, but overuse can have negative effects.
B vitamins are water soluable. As such, it is essentially impossible to overdose on them, as they will simply be removed by the kidneys. Any OD issues are very temporary, and only with massive ammounts (5 hour energy, for example, can cause niacin rush, which lasts maybe 20 minutes)
Then there are these (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/08/18/1186857834956.html) type of news - Combine that with lower body mass and underdeveloped body (hormonal balance, brain chemistry, etc..) and you have a cocktail which is extremely understudied.Correlation does not equal causation. He had 8 red bulls. His heart stopped. That doesn't mean that the red bull had anything to do with the heart stopping. Caffine-wise, 8 red bulls is the same as drinking two large starbucks coffees.

Of the chemicals in Red Bull, the only questionable one is taurine, which may have negative impact in exceptionally high doses. It is actually quite good for you regularly, however. Beyond that, not a single chemical except caffine (which, as stated many times before, is in levels comparable to many other drinks) has been shown to be risky.



AFAIK caffeine doesn't have energy content worth mentioning...?It's a stimulant. The point of energy drinks isn't to provide actual physical energy (that is, the ability to do work) but to energize the person (that is, to feel awake and alert).

B vitamins are water soluable. As such, it is essentially impossible to overdose on them, as they will simply be removed by the kidneys. Any OD issues are very temporary, and only with massive ammounts
Oh, I know they're water soluble. However they can have adverse side-effects (http://www.acu-cell.com/bx2.html) nonetheless.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Which is why I'd rather see extensive STUDIES rather than attribute incidence based on a single incident.

btw. Wiki page on energy drinks has this: In the United States, energy drinks have been linked with reports of nausea, abnormal heart rhythms and emergency room visits.

Of the chemicals in Red Bull, the only questionable one is taurine, which may have negative impact in exceptionally high doses.
Does it have guarana, gingseng? What about the sugar or sugar replacements it contains?

It is actually quite good for you regularly, however.
Show me a single long term study.

It's a stimulant. The point of energy drinks isn't to provide actual physical energy (that is, the ability to do work) but to energize the person (that is, to feel awake and alert).
You'd be wrong...Many of the energy drinks have relatively high nutritional energy content as well.

Not necessarily Red Bull, mind you...Albeit, even a litre of it (Red Bull) has 1/5th of daily dose of energy (2000 kJ).

let's just ban everything

Oh, I know they're water soluble. However they can have adverse side-effects (http://www.acu-cell.com/bx2.html) nonetheless.

Which is why I'd rather see extensive STUDIES rather than attribute incidence based on a single incident.That was a response to the article, which makes a baseless claim.

btw. Wiki page on energy drinks has this: In the United States, energy drinks have been linked with reports of nausea, abnormal heart rhythms and emergency room visits.
nausea: can easily be caused by caffine alone. And frequently is.
abnormal heart rhythms: again, caffine.
ER visits, well, go to your local ER and take a look around.

Now, I'd be interested in a study. But untill those studies are done, people seem to be very comfortable making baseless claims.


Does it have guarana, gingseng? What about the sugar or sugar replacements it contains?
I'm pretty sure we're confident about the impact of sugar on the human body. Sugar replacements have been deemed safe. Huarana and ginseng are not in red bull.

Show me a single long term study.
taurine is needed for proper skeletal muscle functioning. (http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/03-0496fjev1)

You'd be wrong...Many of the energy drinks have relatively high nutritional energy content as well.

Not necessarily Red Bull, mind you...Albeit, even a litre of it (Red Bull) has 1/5th of daily dose of energy per litre (2000 kJ).
Okay...first, we were talking about caffine. Second, the primary function is to make the person feel awake and alert. One of the ways they can do this is by providing physical energy.

And what exactly is a "daily dose of energy"? Are you talking about calories? Carbohydrates? Proteins? Sugars? Amino acids? An amalgamation of all of the above?

That was a response to the article, which makes a baseless claim.
Huh?

Here's another bit about Niacin (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042702610.html):
In reality, they write, it can prove toxic, causing heart palpitations, vomiting, blood sugar abnormalities and liver failure.
Now, I'd be interested in a study. But untill those studies are done, people seem to be very comfortable making baseless claims.
Including claims about the safety of relatively poorly researched energy drinks, no? :tongue:
I'm pretty sure we're confident about the impact of sugar on the human body.
Indeed, more and more kids are overweight and incidence of diabetes is increasing.

Coincidentally, niacin (http://www.vitaminswell.com/niacin.html) overdose is linked to diabetes as well
Sugar replacements have been deemed safe.
Indeed...But are they really safe?

For example, one of the metabolic byproducts of Aspartame is methanol which is further metabolized into hazardous toxins.
taurine is needed for proper skeletal muscle functioning. (http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/03-0496fjev1)
Your link has taurine deficiency as its basis.

Exactly the opposite what consuming excess taurine would cause: Chronic overdose.
Okay...first, we were talking about caffine.
Actually, we were talking about sugar & energy.

Caffeine has no nutritional value per se - It doesn't give off energy to the body.
And what exactly is a "daily dose of energy"? Are you talking about calories? Carbohydrates? Proteins? Sugars? Amino acids? An amalgamation of all of the above?
Daily energy need, "calories" - The nutritional energy value which is 7 to 10 kilojoules per day + extra 4-8 kilojoules for active lifestyle.

Edit: The energy sugar gives, the one that causes obesity.

Huh?They make the baseless claim (or at the very least imply) that red bull caused the problem.

Here's another bit about Niacin (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042702610.html):
In reality, they write, it can prove toxic, causing heart palpitations, vomiting, blood sugar abnormalities and liver failure.
Yes...and? I already discussed niacin rush. I didn't claim that B vitamins were without any high-dose risk...only that the risks are short lived and that excess B vitamins are quickly disposed of by the kidneys.

It should be pointed out that 5 hour energy has probably the highest level of niacin of any energy drink (high enough to carry a warning for niacin rush). It contains 30 mg. The kid in your article took 5,500 mg.
Including claims about the safety of relatively poorly researched energy drinks, no? :tongue:Given that there has been minimal evidence to demonstrate danger of any of the chemicals, no, I'd say my assertions are pretty safe.

Yes, taking some 400x the daily reccomended value of anything could be bad for you. That is hardly what is in any of these drinks.

Indeed, more and more kids are overweight and incidence of diabetes is increasing.Not quite the health risk people are looking for from energy drinks. Sugar content is not significantly higher than comparable servings of soda.

Coincidentally, niacin (http://www.vitaminswell.com/niacin.html) overdose is linked to diabetes as well[/QUOTE]
Find me a website that knows the difference between Niacin (B3) and Inositol Hexanicotinate (a dietary supliment sold as "flush-free Niacin" but, in fact, a different chemical with different [though similar] effects) and we'll talk.

Indeed...But are they really safe?

For example, one of the metabolic byproducts of Aspartame is methanol which is further metabolized into hazardous toxins.Find me anyhting that demonstrates that aspartame is hazardous. There has not been a single study that has conclusively linked it to tumors or any other claimed health risk. The ammount of methanol is so insignificant (less than found in most alcoholic drinks) that it does not pose a risk.
Your link has taurine deficiency as its basis.

Exactly the opposite what consuming excess taurine would cause: Chronic overdose.And that has nothing to do with my claim. I said that taurine is good at a reasonable level. That study demonstrates that it is actually necessary. I never said hyperdosing was good.

Actually, we were talking about sugar & energy.
Actually, we were talking about caffine.
You said
AFAIK caffeine doesn't have energy content worth mentioning...?
I said
It's a stimulant. The point of energy drinks isn't to provide actual physical energy (that is, the ability to do work) but to energize the person (that is, to feel awake and alert).
Nothing about sugar.
Caffeine has no nutritional value per se - It doesn't give off energy to the body.Nor have I claimed it does.

Daily energy need, "calories" - The nutritional energy value which is 7 to 10 kilojoules per day + extra 4-8 kilojoules for active lifestyle.

Edit: The energy sugar gives.
K. And now, how is this relevant? Yes...it has calories. Now what?

"energy drinks" aren't about nourishing yourself. They give you "energy" in the same way coffee does. Not in calories (though, they do provide some), but mostly through caffine.

They make the baseless claim (or at the very least imply) that red bull caused the problem.
Why would it be baseless? Do you have sources that would debunk the causation? Has the causation been studied?
Yes...and? I already discussed niacin rush. I didn't claim that B vitamins were without any high-dose risk...only that the risks are short lived and that excess B vitamins are quickly disposed of by the kidneys.
What are the long term effects of chronic excess of rainbow of water soluble B vitamins?

Has this been studied? Ever?
Given that there has been minimal evidence to demonstrate danger of any of the chemicals, no, I'd say my assertions are pretty safe.
Given that there has been minimal study to the area your assertions are at best ambiguous.
Not quite the health risk people are looking for from energy drinks. Sugar content is not significantly higher than comparable servings of soda.
No but, energy drinks are another useless source of sugar & energy, both linked to diabetes (latter through obesity).
Find me a website that knows the difference between Niacin (B3) and Inositol Hexanicotinate (a dietary supliment sold as "flush-free Niacin" but, in fact, a different chemical with different [though similar] effects) and we'll talk
Redbull has Niacin, why on earth would finding info on a different chemical be relevant?
Find me anyhting that demonstrates that aspartame is hazardous.
Do you deny its metabolic products? Do you deny methanol's effects on human body?
The ammount of methanol is so insignificant (less than found in most alcoholic drinks) that it does not pose a risk.
What's the treatment of choice for methanol poisoning?
Answer: Ethanol, because ethanol substitutes methanol in metabolic processes.
And that has nothing to do with my claim. I said that taurine is good at a reasonable level. That study demonstrates that it is actually necessary. I never said hyperdosing was good.
Taurine is synthetisized by human body, therefore any supplement to it is almost certainly unnecessary.

Furthermore, what's your take on this: http://www.biotech.wisc.edu/outreach/pdfs/redbullposterltr2p.pdf


Actually, we were talking about caffine.
You said

I said

Nothing about sugar.

Nor have I claimed it does.
It started with you saying:
And yeah, the lack of sugar will decrease some of the energy burst, but most of that energy is coming from the caffine.
To which I replied
AFAIK caffeine doesn't have energy content worth mentioning...?

K. And now, how is this relevant? Yes...it has calories. Now what?

"energy drinks" aren't about nourishing yourself. They give you "energy" in the same way coffee does. Not in calories (though, they do provide some), but mostly through caffine.
This is where you're wrong, like I already pointed out: Many energy drinks have relatively high amount energy because one of their selling points is revitalizing a tired body, which usually also means tackling energy "deficiency" (eg. after sports or exercise). As an example, even the low "energy" energy drink like a can of red bull contains 1/15 to 1/20 of daily energy need.

Also, caffeine intake with chronic caffeine users doesn't give that "extra energy" but raises the alertness to the level of non-caffeinated people :)

For example: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowFulltext&ProduktNr=224082&Ausgabe=226270&ArtikelNr=26514

No evidence was found that caffeine improved performance, either in the context of acute or habitual use. On the contrary, performance was found to be significantly impaired when caffeine was withdrawn abruptly following habitual use. Participants reported feeling more alert and less tired following acute ingestion of caffeine, but feeling less alert in conjunction with chronic exposure to the drug.

Is this just red bull or all types of high sugar/caffine drinks and food. Creating a limit to % of a material in a drink due to sceintific advice would be the best option. But that actually involves people looking at red bull instead of using is as a scape goat