NationStates Jolt Archive

I was watching one of those World War Two stiff upper lip tally-ho movies today on Channel Four called "The Malta Story", and whilst the movie itself wasn't all that brilliant it did manage to sturr up a little bit of pride in me...

This is strange, considering I am a) as left as the day is long and think national borders are just idle lines in the sand and b) not in actual fact British. (I live in Northern Ireland, if you're curious.)

This all makes me wonder what my feelings on nationalism really are. I'd like to get to grips with what patriotism is and patriots really are. And see more of the other sem-post modernist side. So are you patriotic? If so do you have any logic behind it? Do you factor it into your decisions?

Ultimately, does patriotism have any place in our globalised world?

I was watching one of those World War Two stiff upper lip tally-ho movies today on Channel Four called "The Malta Story", and whilst the movie itself wasn't all that brilliant it did manage to sturr up a little bit of pride in me...

This is strange, considering I am a) as left as the day is long and think national borders are just idle lines in the sand and b) not in actual fact British. (I live in Northern Ireland, if you're curious.)

This all makes me wonder what my feelings on nationalism really are. I'd like to get to grips with what patriotism is and patriots really are. And see more of the other sem-post modernist side. So are you patriotic? If so do you have any logic behind it? Do you factor it into your decisions?

Ultimately, does patriotism have any place in our globalised world?

I love my country. I am a patriot.

That does not mean I support the action's of its government.

I would have some difficulties defining which country is "mine".
And even then, why would I feel different about that place than any other?

Quick answer no.

I love my country. I am a patriot.

That does not mean I support the action's of its government.

What is it about your country that you love?

he'll no Im not patriotic! Viva la Revolution! (I actually have a proud feeling for germany, because I am both A citizen of the U.S and germany)

I love my country. I don't love what the government does, but the quirks is why I love the country more so, if you get where I'm coming from. Yeah, that probably doesn't make any sense.

I'd quite like to see the U.S. burned to the ground. Not out of a revolutionary fervor, just because a childhood spent watching zombie and post-apocalyptic movies have convinced me that it would be fun to watch.
So, no, I'm not very patriotic.

No. I realise its better than many countries with collapsed governments, war, lack of human rights and stuffs, but out of the peaceful democratic countries we're nothing special. True, I wouldn't want to go anywhere else because of language issues, family ties, and my love of bland British food. But I'm not proud of our country, certainly not most of its history. And I treat the symbols of nationalism, the national anthem, monarchy how they deserve to be treated, with a shake of the head and wry amusement.

yes i am.

Patriotism comes from the idea that your country is best just because you happened to be born there. I admire many of my homeland's ideals, and loathe many of it's people.

I love my country. I don't love what the government does, but the quirks is why I love the country more so, if you get where I'm coming from. Yeah, that probably doesn't make any sense.

I get that. I do love my country, not because it's a random section of geography, I feel a country is far more than that. It's a shared history, culture, ideals and understanding. All of which is constantly changing and being built on, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, but we all take part in the process on some level, be we newly arrived or from a family who've been here generations.

So yes, I'm quite patriotic, but this does not mean I can't disagree with my government, learn from the mistakes of our past or push for improvement. A country is, after all, always a work in progress.

Edit: and strangely enough I'm also a strong supporter of the EU, because I feel we can belong to multiple categories and larger groupings/communities whilst maintaining our individuality. This goes all the way to the top in that we're all human beings and all the way to the bottom in that we're all individuals, with individual differences.

Until I moved to England I considered the fact that I was born in Scotland to be a matter of great shame. Now I am deeply proud of my Scottish heritage. I guess you don't know what you've got till it's gone lol!

So yes, overall I am very patriotic.

I don't know. On the one hand I don't subscribe to "greatest of them all" stuff and I'm certainly no part of the nationalist/monarchist stuff. But I've definitely felt a certain something pop up as the mainstream right becomes ever more open with its distain for Britain. I feel like if I don't believe in Britain, defend it and will it to succeed then the defeatism espoused by outlets such as The Mail will triumph and the country that I want to live in will suffer badly.

I hate this idea, shoved down our throats daily that Britain sucks and that perfect lives are to be made elsewhere. Any time any media tries to say Britain is doing okay it seems to be only a round about way of bashing someone else. I want Britain to succeed and I want it to be this Britain but better - peaceful, more prosperous and fairer. I don't want the Britain of 1850 to succeed, I don't want the monarchy to succeed. I want my Britain to succeed and I don't want people to tell me that living here is a consolation prize - it's not.

Yeah, I'm going to say I'm a patriot. Just a peverse one.

Ireland's nice, but I wouldn't say I'm patriotic.

I support our football team. That's something, I suppose.

I realized a while ago that I very much care about my state and what happens to it and how it is portrayed, its history, etc. I like it very much and feel it's a special place on Earth. Not 'the best' etc, and don't subscribe to the "We're better than you" kind of thing (though we're totally better than Wyoming...*) and if it was its own country it wouldn't bother me a bit.

But it's not "my state, right or wrong." We can do some fucked up shit (Prop 8 comes to mind)...It's just what I know and what shaped me. There are lots of places on this Earth that hold many things for me and I want to see them all if I could, but this will always be home and when it does crappy things it embarrasses me and when it does good things it makes me proud. If that's patriotism, then yep.


*kidding...sort of...

I was watching one of those World War Two stiff upper lip tally-ho movies today on Channel Four called "The Malta Story", and whilst the movie itself wasn't all that brilliant it did manage to sturr up a little bit of pride in me...

This is strange, considering I am a) as left as the day is long and think national borders are just idle lines in the sand and b) not in actual fact British. (I live in Northern Ireland, if you're curious.)

This all makes me wonder what my feelings on nationalism really are. I'd like to get to grips with what patriotism is and patriots really are. And see more of the other sem-post modernist side. So are you patriotic? If so do you have any logic behind it? Do you factor it into your decisions?

Ultimately, does patriotism have any place in our globalised world?

well, i'm rather like you, and i feel that national sovereignity - on which patriotism is hinged - is moot in today's interdependent economic/political world. so i'm personally not patriotic, but i do feel appreciation for certain things in or about this country.

but i do recognise a difference between patriotism and nationalism (the former being fine and the latter being pretty scary)

I don't know. On the one hand I don't subscribe to "greatest of them all" stuff and I'm certainly no part of the nationalist/monarchist stuff. But I've definitely felt a certain something pop up as the mainstream right becomes ever more open with its distain for Britain. I feel like if I don't believe in Britain, defend it and will it to succeed then the defeatism espoused by outlets such as The Mail will triumph and the country that I want to live in will suffer badly.

I hate this idea, shoved down our throats daily that Britain sucks and that perfect lives are to be made elsewhere. Any time any media tries to say Britain is doing okay it seems to be only a round about way of bashing someone else. I want Britain to succeed and I want it to be this Britain but better - peaceful, more prosperous and fairer. I don't want the Britain of 1850 to succeed, I don't want the monarchy to succeed. I want my Britain to succeed and I don't want people to tell me that living here is a consolation prize - it's not.

Yeah, I'm going to say I'm a patriot. Just a peverse one.

interesting... i'd say pretty much the same, myself. the things that make me feel any pride in Britian are things that matter to me, such as having the NHS, being a functioning democracy, the BBC, freedom of speech, our economy, the welfare state, progressive government, our ties with the EU, etc. these aren't the usual, or, at least, stereotypical nationalistic issues such as tradition, our history, the British Empire, the Monarchy, etc, etc. so i, too, am a perverse left-wing patriot. i want to see more of the things i like and am proud of, and not always be told by the media that Britain is awful; and i especially dislike being told by the Tories that Britain is getting worse, or is a terrible place, because last time they had their chance it was a shitload worse than it is now.

I realized a while ago that I very much care about my state and what happens to it and how it is portrayed, its history, etc. I like it very much and feel it's a special place on Earth. Not 'the best' etc, and don't subscribe to the "We're better than you" kind of thing (though we're totally better than Wyoming...*) and if it was its own country it wouldn't bother me a bit.

But it's not "my state, right or wrong." We can do some fucked up shit (Prop 8 comes to mind)...It's just what I know and what shaped me. There are lots of places on this Earth that hold many things for me and I want to see them all if I could, but this will always be home and when it does crappy things it embarrasses me and when it does good things it makes me proud. If that's patriotism, then yep.

That's about exactly the sort of thing I was going to say. Damn you for traveling to the future and stealing my posts from my brain!

That's about exactly the sort of thing I was going to say. Damn you for traveling to the future and stealing my posts from my brain!

That's the other awesome thing about my state, flux capacitor equipped DeLoreans.

I'm gonna have to side with Oscar Wilde on this one. Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

I am absolutely patriotic. When Obama was elected (Note that I did not prefer him) I whined for an hour or two, I sulked, and acted childish. After that, I sucked it in, and decided to move forward as an American. I summed it up to a couple people by saying: "I'm a patriot, not a partisan." I then went on to explain that though I may not agree with many (or any) of Obama's policies/opinions I will support him as The President of the United States of America because he was elected by America.

This idea was driven home to me in '04, which was my first presidential election. After Bush won (Note that I did prefer him) I reacted negatively when almost everyone started griping and complaining, and protesting. I thought to myself that it is a shame that these people are going to complain about our rightfully elected leader, rather than support our country, and president, even though they might not agree with his policies. After thinking these thoughts to myself for a week or two the sudden realization hit me, brutal self-honesty told me (and correctly) that if Kerry had won, I would have been a whiner, a moper, and a complainer. This taught me a very good lesson in supporting our president, which I plan to do unless America becomes so terrible as to require me to either leave the country, or start armed revolution... both of which seem fairly unlikely, I'm not a fan of Obama, but I'm hoping and praying that he will be a spectacular leader, because America comes before the party I happened to vote for.

That is why I am a patriot. America matters to me because I live here, it's my country, and I love it... even if I don't always agree with it, I am still friends, though we disagree with each other on a few (or sometimes many) things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an isolationist by any means, and the global community matters as well... but I don't get to vote in England, nor do English laws affect me, so I cannot feel patriotic to England, or any other country, though I am concerned certainly for global welfare in general.

interesting... i'd say pretty much the same, myself. the things that make me feel any pride in Britian are things that matter to me, such as having the NHS, being a functioning democracy, the BBC, freedom of speech, our economy, the welfare state, progressive government, our ties with the EU, etc. these aren't the usual, or, at least, stereotypical nationalistic issues such as tradition, our history, the British Empire, the Monarchy, etc, etc. so i, too, am a perverse left-wing patriot. i want to see more of the things i like and am proud of, and not always be told by the media that Britain is awful; and i especially dislike being told by the Tories that Britain is getting worse, or is a terrible place, because last time they had their chance it was a shitload worse than it is now.

Right but the thing is that logically our kind of patriotism makes so much more sense right? Britain in 2008 is the only Britain we've got - the Empire isn't an option (and even if it was, who wants that? Who wants us to start oppressing Ireland again? Were these 'patriots' watching Gandhi and cheering the British on?). I saw - and I realise this is a very petty example but one which struck an odd sort of chord with me - some crappy property show and the couple they were 'helping' were introduced as "mr and mrs blah who have just moved back to Liverpool after ten years living in southern California and the presenter turns round and goes "One question: why?" - what kind of a dick move is that? "Hi, you want to live in the same place as me? Crazy bitch!". And this was the small talk bit!

If you go to the Mail's website and read the comments the chances are the comment you are reading says something like "third world Britain" or is signed off by someone from "ex-great Britain". The paper runs stories on how to immigrate to Australia/Canada/New Zealand and recently opposed a tightening of immigration restrictions (yes, you read that right) over fears that it might lead other countries to make it more difficult for their readers to quit Britain. And this is the paper that has the audacity to say that immigrants aren't adapting to Britain's way of life (well, duh, they actually moved here!). They pay Richard Littlejohn £1million a year to sit in a gated community in Florida and write hate - lots of it made up - about how Britain is so terrible whilst he has no fucking clue because he's never here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DailyMailFrontPage.jpg

Britain needs improving, absolutely but there is no way we can do that if the attitude is that all we're here to do is to get as much money as we can and then hotfoot it somewhere sunnier.

I remember when I came back to Britain after living, like the above property-hunting couple, in California that I went to a party my parents were having and the old bores were told that I had come back from America and my cousin had come back from Australia. Guess what happened? "Oh the rain, the crime, the stabbings". Look, I lived in LOS ANGELES - I'm not fearing for my life here in Bath. The only reasons they could think of for us wanting to return was that there must be something awfully wrong with the places we went to - chief amongst them being fatness and stupidity for the U.S and backwardness and stupidity for Aus. The truth is that the U.S is perfectly nice and Australia is perfectly nice but we both wanted to live in London. Suffice to say that all concerned were monarchists and very much concerned with those muslims and such.

We got to be strong though. Good guys win.

Edit: Another good example - sport. Meaningless maybe but the press/people try and extract meaning from it so it counts. Before the Olympics: Waaa, Britain's crap it only barely scrapes into the top 10 on the medals table normally. Waa, we're crap. Wow, this opening ceremony is amazing - our games is going to be so crap. Oh wow, we're doing really well - cue Adrian Chiles to tell them that it's "not british to be so successful" (he did say that). Okay, we did undeniably well. How do we react? Our games are going to suck. They're only going to happen without chucking thousands from their homes, screwing over fans, faking ceremonies, forcing and humiliating people. They're only going to happen in a much nicer city. It might drizzle!! Oh look, Lewis Hamilton won. Youngest winner ever. Let's make a big deal of the fact he finish 5th in one race - it proves he's British!

You've got this narrative of us being terrible and horrible and the facts are just squashed to fit it.

I'm quite patriotic. Although I don't sign the ''we are better than you''-sentiment, I'm quite proud of Finland. It's a nice country, a country of averages. It's never cold or hot in here. It's quite small, and depression is acording to some the unofficial national disease . But I love this country, and wouldn't change anything. (Thanks to Micheal Moore for getting the anthem wrong!) Although my brother hates it, but he's an ass. But, when I've completed my studies, it's off to Scotland! (I hope.) Here's are the lyrics foor Finlandia(An awesome song):

O, Finland, behold, your day is dawning,
The threat of night has been banished away,
And the lark of morning in the brightness sings,
As though the very firmament would sing.
The powers of the night are vanquished by the morning light,
Your day is dawning, O land of birth.

O, rise, Finland, rise up high
Your head, wreathed with great memories.
O, rise, Finland, you showed to the world
That you drove away the slavery,
And that you did not bend under oppression,
Your day is dawning, O land of birth.

If you go to the Mail's website and read the comments the chances are the comment you are reading says something like "third world Britain" or is signed off by someone from "ex-great Britain". The paper runs stories on how to immigrate to Australia/Canada/New Zealand and recently opposed a tightening of immigration restrictions (yes, you read that right) over fears that it might lead other countries to make it more difficult for their readers to quit Britain. And this is the paper that has the audacity to say that immigrants aren't adapting to Britain's way of life (well, duh, they actually moved here!). They pay Richard Littlejohn £1million a year to sit in a gated community in Florida and write hate - lots of it made up - about how Britain is so terrible whilst he has no fucking clue because he's never here!


Ah the good ol' Daily Hate. I'm fed up with the sentiment too. I mean the UK's not perfect or the best, but no where is. Everywhere has it's ups and downs. We're never going to recapture the past and really nor should we want to. All we can do is learn from the past, and try and make the future as good as possible for everyone (and our descendants). Having also lived abroad in the UK we have a dramatically distorted view of our society, and what it was like even half a century ago (no, no the 50s were not a Golden Age!).

I am extremely patriotic, and think the UK (Not Britain, Not England, Scotland, N.I, Wales, the UK) is the best place to live in the world.

We have free health care, a proud history of Invention, Empire and Social Progression. Other country's model there government on the British Parliamentary system, and our system of common law has travelled around the world. We have plenty to love about Being British

God Save the Queen, the Union and the Commonwealth.


I do not understand how you can love the country and hate the Queen, by all means hate the government but what’s to hate about the Queen. It’s another tradition and part of our country that we should be proud off, and even if we hate her we can’t stop the rest of the world loving her.

I have two patries, making me doubly as good as anyone with only one (unfortunately only 2/3rds as good as triple citizens =( )

Though I dislike my government, I love my country.

I am extremely patriotic, and think the UK (Not Britain, Not England, Scotland, N.I, Wales, the UK) is the best place to live in the world.

We have free health care, a proud history of Invention, Empire and Social Progression. Other country's model there government on the British Parliamentary system, and our system of common law has travelled around the world. We have plenty to love about Being British

God Save the Queen, the Union and the Commonwealth.


I do not understand how you can love the country and hate the Queen, by all means hate the government but what’s to hate about the Queen. It’s another tradition and part of our country that we should be proud off, and even if we hate her we can’t stop the rest of the world loving her.

You realise all that stuff is done right? The system of common law? Done. Empire? Done. Invention? Done (at least on a global scale). Spread of Parliamentary system? Done. Commonwealth? Dying

We might as well have closed the country down in 1958 and covered it wrapping. It could be a giant museum for the people of countries who are still open for business to visit. Those aren't reasons to be proud of being British, those are reasons - if that's what you're after - to be upset that your life didn't occur 150 years ago

I like my country, but don't ask me to die for someone who voted Berlusconi. No way.

Until I moved to England I considered the fact that I was born in Scotland to be a matter of great shame. Now I am deeply proud of my Scottish heritage. I guess you don't know what you've got till it's gone lol!

So yes, overall I am very patriotic.

Even more so when you actually live outside your state and not just you nation.

Yes, I'm a patriot. Seeing one's state from outside gives one perspective...

You realise all that stuff is done right? The system of common law? Done. Empire? Done. Invention? Done (at least on a global scale). Spread of Parliamentary system? Done. Commonwealth? Dying

We might as well have closed the country down in 1958 and covered it wrapping. It could be a giant museum for the people of countries who are still open for business to visit. Those aren't reasons to be proud of being British, those are reasons - if that's what you're after - to be upset that your life didn't occur 150 years ago So you are not proud of what your country did for the world? I am just as proud of what Britain did 150 years as to what Britain is now. It’s like saying "World War Two, oh that was 60 years ago so forget it". Well No, I wont forget all the good things we did while we had our top spot in the world tables.

I think one of the reasons people aren’t proud of our country is they don’t learn our history. I'm in 6th form now and I still come across people who had never heard of the Industrial revolution. When you tell them what it was and where to happened they love it, they realise Britain hasn’t always been the bland, 2nd rate power it is now.

So you are not proud of what your country did for the world? I am just as proud of what Britain did 150 years as to what Britain is now. It’s like saying "World War Two, oh that was 60 years ago so forget it". Well No, I wont forget all the good things we did while we had our top spot in the world tables.

I think one of the reasons people aren’t proud of our country is they don’t learn our history. I'm in 6th form now and I still come across people who had never heard of the Industrial revolution. When you tell them what it was and where to happened they love it, they realise Britain hasn’t always been the bland, 2nd rate power it is now.

"Bland, 2nd rate power?" that's why you're not proud of your country. Not properly anyway. We aren't a superpower and we're never going to be. Wishing it were different doesn't get us anywhere. Yes, Britain was a superpower a while ago. It did some good things, it did some terrible things. That's not where we are right now though. We can work with the country we've got or the country we used to have.

And in all honesty I think Britain would probably be a nicer place if we dropped to being a bland 3rd rate power by spending less on the military for example.

"Bland, 2nd rate power?" that's why you're not proud of your country. Not properly anyway. We aren't a superpower and we're never going to be. Wishing it were different doesn't get us anywhere. Yes, Britain was a superpower a while ago. It did some good things, it did some terrible things. That's not where we are right now though. We can work with the country we've got or the country we used to have.

And in all honesty I think Britain would probably be a nicer place if we dropped to being a bland 3rd rate power by spending less on the military for example. I am proud of my country, but I know its history and what to be proud of. The NHS, our system of Government and our many other achievements as a country. In the last ten years what can we be pound off? Winning the rugby world cup is overshadowed by record national debt, failing schools and the splitting up of the UK via devolution.

I am patriotic. I love my provice and I love my country.

Puxa Asturies dixebrá!

Qué viva España!

I am proud of my country, but I know its history and what to be proud of. The NHS, our system of Government and our many other achievements as a country. In the last ten years what can we be pound off?

This is exactly the kind of crap I am talking about. Go watch your costume dramas, I'm busy working with THIS country - the one in the 21st century?

This idea was driven home to me in '04, which was my first presidential election. After Bush won (Note that I did prefer him) I reacted negatively when almost everyone started griping and complaining, and protesting. I thought to myself that it is a shame that these people are going to complain about our rightfully elected leader, rather than support our country, and president, even though they might not agree with his policies. After thinking these thoughts to myself for a week or two the sudden realization hit me, brutal self-honesty told me (and correctly) that if Kerry had won, I would have been a whiner, a moper, and a complainer. This taught me a very good lesson in supporting our president, which I plan to do unless America becomes so terrible as to require me to either leave the country, or start armed revolution...

How.....pathetic.


No, Im not patriotic. I like it here, and havent yet found a place Id rather live in. But if I did find one, and I didnt want to live here anymore, no nationalistic foolishness would keep from moving.

I am fond of it but in the same way I am fold of old jumpers, they are worn in and comfortable.

ooh iam a bit patriotic

This is going to turn into another dick waving contest....

For the record, I agree with Samuel Johnson on this one.

I am absolutely patriotic. When Obama was elected (Note that I did not prefer him) I whined for an hour or two, I sulked, and acted childish. After that, I sucked it in, and decided to move forward as an American. I summed it up to a couple people by saying: "I'm a patriot, not a partisan." I then went on to explain that though I may not agree with many (or any) of Obama's policies/opinions I will support him as The President of the United States of America because he was elected by America.

This idea was driven home to me in '04, which was my first presidential election. After Bush won (Note that I did prefer him) I reacted negatively when almost everyone started griping and complaining, and protesting. I thought to myself that it is a shame that these people are going to complain about our rightfully elected leader, rather than support our country, and president, even though they might not agree with his policies. After thinking these thoughts to myself for a week or two the sudden realization hit me, brutal self-honesty told me (and correctly) that if Kerry had won, I would have been a whiner, a moper, and a complainer. This taught me a very good lesson in supporting our president, which I plan to do unless America becomes so terrible as to require me to either leave the country, or start armed revolution... both of which seem fairly unlikely, I'm not a fan of Obama, but I'm hoping and praying that he will be a spectacular leader, because America comes before the party I happened to vote for.

That is why I am a patriot. America matters to me because I live here, it's my country, and I love it... even if I don't always agree with it, I am still friends, though we disagree with each other on a few (or sometimes many) things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an isolationist by any means, and the global community matters as well... but I don't get to vote in England, nor do English laws affect me, so I cannot feel patriotic to England, or any other country, though I am concerned certainly for global welfare in general.

You're wrong, but at least you're coherent.

Ooh! I like the word "fond of"! Well done Rambhutan!

I am very moved at The Malta Story too - and of the heroic efforts of the British and the Maltese to get that convoy (or what was left of it after the Axis powers threw everything they had at it). It may have been propaganda but it really happened.
The one remaining oil tanker that the Germans hadn't sunk limped into Valetta harbour lashed to a British destroyer. All of Valetta was standing on the cliffs waving it in with their handkerchiefs. Every time I see that footage my eyes fill with tears.
Does that make me patriotic - well, I'm Australian actually.....

And then there's the Battle of Midway, when the brave American pilots fly off to spot the Japanese invasion fleet evenn though it means that many of them will run out of fuel and risk drowning in the Pacific, yet they do it to save their country and when one pilot goes above and beyond the call of duty and spots it and reports it, the torpedo bombers fly off to their almost certain deaths and they do it.
My eyes always fill with tears at that, yet I'm not an American...

And don't get me started on Gettysburg when Colonel Chamberlain addresses the 2nd Maine Mutineers and he starts with a mathematical greeting..."Last year there were over a thousand of us. There are fewer than 300 of us now film. But that still doesn't make me American

And then there is Casablanca where the resistance hero strikes up the band and gets them to play La Marseillese and every French person in the place (and others) gets up and sings:
"Marchons! Marchons! Qu'un sang a peur!" And my tears are really flowing. But hey! I'm not French.

I love a sunburnt country a land of sweeping plains
Of ragged mountain ranges, of droughts and flooding rains
I love her far horizons
I love her jewelled see
Her beauty and her terror,
The wide brown land for me.
(My Country by Dorothea Mc Kellar)

So what's my point? Some patriotic stimuli can move me. Yes I am as sentimental as the next guy (except of course for the Americans - noone can beat the absurdly sentimental Americans)
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ttVPN3LX-yw

But noone of ourselves should ever let our patriotism be manipulated by governments and other scoundrels.

And then there is Casablanca where the resistance hero strikes up the band and gets them to play La Marseillese and every French person in the place (and others) gets up and sings:
"Marchons! Marchons! Qu'un sang a peur!" And my tears are really flowing. But hey! I'm not French.
Also really gets me. How the girl's eyes tear up really moves me. When she yells "Vive la France!", it really hits me.

I am a nationalist and patriotic. I love the glory and power of the American revolution, and whenever I really read/hear (from clips) of the speeches motioning for liberty and independence, I tear up. I also let some tears go when Obama won and the whole country, no, the whole world was cheering our country on.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-KL76edqCKc

I'm a patriot, not a patrioteer.

And then there is Casablanca where the resistance hero strikes up the band and gets them to play La Marseillese and every French person in the place (and others) gets up and sings:
"Marchons! Marchons! Qu'un sang impur!" And my tears are really flowing. But hey! I'm not French.

Fixed. Oddly enough, La Marseillaise came up on my iTunes just as I was reading your post :tongue:

You're wrong, but at least you're coherent.

how's he wrong? in what way?

I'm English and proud to be, that is not to say that I view England as in any way superior to other developed nations or anything I just think that England is a nation that has achieved a lot and has every right to be proud of it's past

This thread makes me wonder...
Are people here mistaking patrioteers/nationalist/ultranationalist/jingoist or another synonym for the word patriot? The colloquial use of the word 'patriot' can be very misleading.
So what's the definition of 'patriot' for you, my fellow NSGers?

This thread makes me wonder...
Are people here mistaking patrioteers/nationalist/ultranationalist/jingoist or another synonym for the word patriot? The colloquial use of the word 'patriot' can be very misleading.
So what's the definition of 'patriot' for you, my fellow NSGers?

to be proud of one's nation and it's history but not to be bigoted about it

just wondering what country are you from Hydesland? I love my country. even though I disagree with it sometimes. Like now I feel something my country is doing is disgusting but we get disgusted with stuff people we love do but there is things to outweigh that. All countries have quirks of some kind, I think. People often have quirks. Actually quirkiness is in the eye of the beholder. I was unpatriotic until I was in seventh grade. The reason is that year, by the way it was 2001, something bad happened to my country.

I was unpatriotic until I was in seventh grade. The reason is that year, by the way it was 2001

It's things like this that make me start to feel old...

Being proud of your countries achievements is fine and good until you start using it as justification for stupid things its doing now

$0.02

I think I've been confusing patriotism for pride in the ideals that nations can seem to embody - in the WW2 movie what got me all welled up wasn't that Britain was out fighting tooth and claw, it was seeing people rise up and unite against fascism.

This would then account for the pride I can feel over the American Revolution or even Obama's victory.

All that leaves is natural beauty, and whilst Ireland is pretty, it is by no means the only place in the world....

Am I patriotic...... I don't want to be, because logically it makes little sense, but annoyingly I do feel it sometimes. Possibly because I have been conditioned to have this instinctive emotive response by society. Probably because it's good for a society, because it makes it more cohesive (if it's purely geographical patriotism).

Annoys the crap out of me though. It's like catching yourself biting your nails and thinking "How'd that happen? I stopped doing that when I was 5!"

just wondering what country are you from Hydesland? I love my country. even though I disagree with it sometimes. Like now I feel something my country is doing is disgusting but we get disgusted with stuff people we love do but there is things to outweigh that. All countries have quirks of some kind, I think. People often have quirks. Actually quirkiness is in the eye of the beholder. I was unpatriotic until I was in seventh grade. The reason is that year, by the way it was 2001, something bad happened to my country.

What rambling incoherence. Are you a beauty queen contestant by any chance?

I guess you just can't understand it. I didn't know I sounded like a beauty queen.

This is exactly the kind of crap I am talking about. Go watch your costume dramas, I'm busy working with THIS country - the one in the 21st century? So you don’t care about our history? You don’t feel pride in what our country has achieved? Its still our country, Britain 200 years ago is still our Britain, that is what we inherit.

I care about our country, I think it is a bit of a shite state at the moment and have no pride in our current government. But I still love Queen and country, which will never change no matter how bad things get. And it is that determination, that lack of confidence in the current state of affairs, that drives me to try and make this place we call home a better place. Not just sit and sulk and look at the past but to try and restore just a bit of our former pride. Because at the moment, as a country, we don’t have any pride.

I guess you just can't understand it. I didn't know I sounded like a beauty queen.

Ah, I'm saying it in jest. Reminds me of this is all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

So you don’t care about our history? You don’t feel pride in what our country has achieved? Its still our country, Britain 200 years ago is still our Britain, that is what we inherit.


Nah, Britain today is smaller geographically than Britain 200 years ago.

Nah, Britain today is smaller geographically than Britain 200 years ago. Well the UK lost a chunk of Ireland. Britain hasn’t got smaller, apart from when the EU managed to lose Wales on one of there maps. Wales just wasn’t there; the Irish Sea was suddenly a lot bigger. (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40143000/jpg/_40143516_wales_grab_203.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3718632.stm&usg=__CWuVYkL4XsSIupFYAP1VfBukPzg=&h=152&w=203&sz=9&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=4n_DEOFK3IIdpM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=105&prev=/images%3Fq%3DEU%2Bmap%2Bmissed%2Boff%2Bwales%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GZAZ_en-GBGB260GB260%26sa%3DN)

how's he wrong? in what way?

The notion that one has to support a President he disagrees with.

The notion that one has to support a President he disagrees with.

Well, I believe his idea is that, he's a patriot, so he supports the President, even if he voted for the 'other' guy. The same way that Republican servicemen/women will have to follow the orders of President-Elect Obama once he assumes office.

It's the same way I feel being in the Air Force right now and supporting President Bush.

Patriotism/nationalism is a useful tool of the government to control the mindless masses
Oh and I'm patriotic to my state, PA, fcuk the rest of the union (except Montana)

I love my country. I am a patriot.

That does not mean I support the action's of its government.
^ ^
This.

Yes.

Well, I believe his idea is that, he's a patriot, so he supports the President, even if he voted for the 'other' guy. The same way that Republican servicemen/women will have to follow the orders of President-Elect Obama once he assumes office.

It's the same way I feel being in the Air Force right now and supporting President Bush.

Following orders does not mean supporting...

ISo are you patriotic?

Yes.

Ultimately, does patriotism have any place in our globalised world?

Of course it does, one can still be proud of one's country while still living in a globalised world. What one can't be is nationalistic in a globalised world. A country which has nationalistic tendencies, that is believes they are the best and hate all foreign countries and believe that they are inferior will not work in a globalised world. However one who is patriotic can recognise that other countries and other cultures are better or are on the same level while still feeling happy, proud and love the idea of being apart of one's country.

Following orders does not mean supporting...
Ok, then. I follow orders and I support my lawful Commander-in-Chief.

You can get proud and sentimental about any club you perceive yourself to be a member of. Patriotism is really no different to pride in your whole gender or pride in being valued in your local community. It's a sense of belonging, of being part of something bigger than yourself.

(I voted No, btw. I feel it sometimes, but only when prodded to it by emotive media or people.)

You can get proud and sentimental about any club you perceive yourself to be a member of. Patriotism is really no different to pride in your whole gender or pride in being valued in your local community. It's a sense of belonging, of being part of something bigger than yourself.

I am very proud of my penis.


Thats not what you meant is it?

This is going to turn into another dick waving contest....

For the record, I agree with Samuel Johnson on this one.

You are not alone out there, my friend.

I am very proud of my penis.


Thats not what you meant is it?

Maybe I am wrong. Do I feel proud of being a man, 'cos men are so great? Not very often!
I wonder if women feel proud of womanhood? I'm probably just wrong.

Fixed. Oddly enough, La Marseillaise came up on my iTunes just as I was reading your post :tongue:

Thanks for the correction New W - still practising your francais on the Breton madamoiselles?:p Ooh! Voulez vous couchez avec moi ce soir?

I'm in Australia and one of my teaching colleagues is from Washington state. I asked him if Obama's victory made him proud to be an American.
All he did was smile....from ear to ear.

This land is your land.
This land is my land
From the Rocky Mountains to
Staten Island.

Thanks for the correction New W - still practising your francais on the Breton madamoiselles?:p Ooh! Voulez vous couchez avec moi ce soir?

Unfortunately not. I'm back in Kuwait, but only for a couple more weeks and then it's back to Michigan.

Maybe a bit patriotic with my flemish roots, but since we're not really a nation...


And for other belgians reading this, I'm not a supporter of Vlaams Belang or anything!

Also really gets me. How the girl's eyes tear up really moves me. When she yells "Vive la France!", it really hits me.

I am a nationalist and patriotic. I love the glory and power of the American revolution, and whenever I really read/hear (from clips) of the speeches motioning for liberty and independence, I tear up. I also let some tears go when Obama won and the whole country, no, the whole world was cheering our country on.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-KL76edqCKc

We did cheer you guys on when Obama won - and we're still cheering.
Thanks for the Casablanca clip - I watched it and it made me cry - again!