NationStates Jolt Archive

Mechs are cool yet many say that they are not very efficient or effective. As a sci-fi nerd with a FT weapons obsession I must know! GIVE ME ALL THE REASONS MECHS ARE BAD IDEAS! NOAOAAHGH! Lest I throw a bag of puppies into a river. *twirls evil mustache*

Seriously though, in the marine suit thread many of you claimed to have long lists of reasons. I'd like to know why because I'm a machine nerd and as stated above I'm obsessed with sci-fi goodies. I also need this info for RP purposes.

Umm....what?

Mechs in the standard sense of the word are big targets, have a lot more vulnerable points, higher ground pressure (they sink more in soft earth), require specialized machinery to fix if they get disabled or lose a leg, can't carry as heavy a weapon as a tank can without needing to anchor itself, are more expensive and harder to transport.

Umm....what?

This thread was inspired by the terran marine thread.

Why on earth would you ever use legged walkers? They're silly. Shoot off a leg and it's down. You can't do that to a tank. Shoot a tread, sure, it can't move, but it sure can still blast the hell out of you. A downed walker will sort of just lie there, and perhaps destabilise and explode.

Mechs are cool yet many say that they are not very efficient or effective. As a sci-fi nerd with a FT weapons obsession I must know! GIVE ME ALL THE REASONS MECHS ARE BAD IDEAS! NOAOAAHGH! Lest I throw a bag of puppies into a river. *twirls evil mustache*

Seriously though, in the marine suit thread many of you claimed to have long lists of reasons. I'd like to know why because I'm a machine nerd and as stated above I'm obsessed with sci-fi goodies. I also need this info for RP purposes.

Very high profile, easy target.

Low stability, high center of gravity.

they make good targets and are hard to hide. given enough firepower they are usefull for massed assualt, like taking a beach, the same sort of thing you'd use hords of expendable more conventional troops for. but that's about all they'd be good for.

the're just TOO obvious a target. a future that could afford them is unlikely to have anything they'd be useful for pertinent.

small swarms of cheep expendable stealthed drones could easily knock them out.
so could ewoks.

If they are ever developed (which I doubt), a "Mech" will probably initially cost as much as an entire battalion of tanks.

Said Mech will be just as vunlerable as a single tank to an airstrike.

As a military commander...I'll take the tanks.

High centre of Gravity, tall target, lots of surface area-more than you can protect with any practical weight of armouring, high ground pressure (that is, lots of weight in small patches causes 'bogging') lots of moving parts to break as well, lots of required gaps at the joint areas means easy vulnerabilities to area weapons.

Then, we get into other areas-limited internal volume (all those moving pieces gotta have power), esp. in relation to the external surface area, and lots of sheer weight-limiting the types of bridges and spans your 'mech can cross safely even further, and bridges ARE necessary-with high ground pressure, you'll sink to the knees in wet ground, becoming immobilized post-haste at any fording points not bottomed with monolithic stone or reinforced concrete.

Their only real use would be to keep civilian populations in line...people can handle tanks, but I don't think there's a resistance movement in hell that would mess with a mech. Other than that, the aforementioned limitations and vulnerabilities make them as useful as the Tsar Bomba.

It takes a lot more energy to move a mech than, say, a tank.

Whereas the angular velocity of the tread of a tank is instantly converted into linear velocity in whichever direction the tread is rotating, in a mech, part of the energy is imparted into pushing the mech up and forward, instead of merely forward. Although it is possible for a mech to move faster, as its rotating leg would have a larger radius than the tread of a tank, ie. a faster velocity, the amount of torque required to support and move a such a vehicle would increase as a function of the length of the rotating leg radius. Then, of course, you must account for the inefficiency in the design by having the motor rotate about half, at most, of the arc of a circle...

And this is only in the drivetrain. Then add the other factors already mentioned.

Their only real use would be to keep civilian populations in line...people can handle tanks, but I don't think there's a resistance movement in hell that would mess with a mech.

Not for long there would be. Tanks were unstoppable machines of terror too in the trench wars of the first World War. That didn't last for long though, as tactics and weapons adapted.

Why on earth would you ever use legged walkers?They can handle more difficult terrain, like larger slopes, larger obstacles. And they can be more agile.

They're silly. Shoot off a leg and it's down.That's why you should have more than two legs, like 8 (because spiders creep a lot of people out), maybe more.
And of course you should keep a lower profile, not like a two-legged humanoid walker, but more like a spider tank.

Not for long there would be. Tanks were unstoppable machines of terror too in the trench wars of the first World War. That didn't last for long though, as tactics and weapons adapted.

True. It's pretty much a given that other technology has advanced to a similar level, making it possible to develop ways to cheaply and effectively exploit their weaknesses. I mean, with a sufficiently strong piece of rope, like the kind you'd be able to find at a futuristic Home Depot for example, you could trip and disable them like the AT-ATs in ESB...

Their only real use would be to keep civilian populations in line...people can handle tanks, but I don't think there's a resistance movement in hell that would mess with a mech.
I'd take one on. Every incarnation I've ever seen looked silly as Hell, and (as has already been pointed out) all you need to do is take out one leg. Or use a trip wire. Or an army of teddy bears.

The only thing that might redeem the bad qualities of a mech listed so far is that it might (depends on how well it's engineered) be a better ATV than tanks. 'course, that would be ignoring the tendency to sink into soft ground, and if we're talking future tech here, might as well use hovertanks instead.

But fear not: Mechs are cool, and therefore it's unlikely the world's militaries will be ignoring them in favor of things that work.

http://www.cabbagestew.com/images/atat_dead.jpg

Powering the thing is a real drag (no pun) - without some kind of nuclear engine there is no way to move such a large walking structure at any reasonable speed modern battle tanks can make over 50kph cross country and even worse the surface area to volume ratio spreads any armour far to thinly to stand up to anthing larger than a light auto-cannon. To conclude your mech is a large slow taget veulnerable to any skinny kid with an RPG.

Spider mechs are where it's at if you want to go that way. Low center of gravity, redundant legs, more agile than a tank, same profile as a tank, can carry tank-like wepaons, and be transported as you would a tank.

Cons: still have lots of joints that are weak points in armour.

They already exist as small robots, so the engineering isn't impossible, but Christ.....zah's points about engineering the drive train to carry a heavier dead load plus weapons might make it difficult.

They provide no advantage over tanks?...


Plus, they'd have limited cross country capability..

Spider mechs are where it's at if you want to go that way. Low center of gravity, redundant legs, more agile than a tank, same profile as a tank, can carry tank-like wepaons, and be transported as you would a tank.

Cons: still have lots of joints that are weak points in armour.

They already exist as small robots, so the engineering isn't impossible, but Christ.....zah's points about engineering the drive train to carry a heavier dead load plus weapons might make it difficult.

I can't imagine an eight legged robot having a very good top speed. Wheels and caterpillar tracks are going to win it every time.
Plus, what works on a small scale won't always work on a larger one. Which is one of the reasons why you don't get 10ft long ants.

The only truly theatening mech I have ever seen were the Striders of Half-Life 2 and only then because they were fast and agile and had 2 cannons (one auto and one warp). There was no way you'd go into an engagement with a strider and come out un-scathed but it was certainly possible to take them out in even large numbers. It was more like an animal with a gun for a face and another gun for a dick.

The only truly theatening mech I have ever seen were the Striders of Half-Life 2 and only then because they were fast and agile and had 2 cannons (one auto and one warp). There was no way you'd go into an engagement with a strider and come out un-scathed but it was certainly possible to take them out in even large numbers. It was more like an animal with a gun for a face and another gun for a dick.

Unless you use a long range Magnusson device...

But the only way to deliver them is with the Gravity Gun. And then you have to shoot it. I wonder why he never thought to stick his sticky bomb to a rocket, he really seemed into those.

Mechs are cool yet many say that they are not very efficient or effective. As a sci-fi nerd with a FT weapons obsession I must know! GIVE ME ALL THE REASONS MECHS ARE BAD IDEAS! NOAOAAHGH! Lest I throw a bag of puppies into a river. *twirls evil mustache*


Well, basically a mecha is:
1.a lot more complex (hence expensive, both in terms of construction and maintenance) than a tank or a fighter aircraft (yes, i'm keeping Robotech in mind...). So, unless you assume a general level of technology very much higher than the current one...
2.a humanoid mecha isn't better for fighting than a tank or an aircraft. Humanoid mechas are... well, humanoid, that is, their form is that of a two-legged ape: very good for manipulating things while running in a savana... not so good for having a low signature, flying at Mach 2+, maneuvering at 9+ g, carrying missiles, sporting a 125mm gun, deflecting incoming piercing rounds: while a tank, or a fighter, are designed for that.
3.maybe non-humanoid mechas are better. let's say in a low-g environment with a rocky terrain, a spider-like mecha could be better than a tank... then again, if the g is low, flying machines have a huge advantage. Also, I don't want to think of the feet surface a spider-mecha would need to avoid sinking into the ground while firing a 125mm. The pressure on the ground places a limit on the kind of weapons a vehicle can mount. I'd fit a spider-mecha with recoilles weapons only (missiles/rockets), or to small-calibre low-recoil MGs. Btw, beware of AT mines.

But the only way to deliver them is with the Gravity Gun. And then you have to shoot it. I wonder why he never thought to stick his sticky bomb to a rocket, he really seemed into those.

If you're talking about Magnusson, it's because for all the marvels of the HEV suit, Gordon Freeman can't carry an ICBM on his shoulders. :p

The first real man-machine military inferface would be a lot closer to the Firefox than a Mech.

http://www.fsfield.com/screenshots/160/6D67Bw6Y4T9e.jpg

The first real man-machine military inferface would be a lot closer to the Firefox than a Mech.

http://www.fsfield.com/screenshots/160/6D67Bw6Y4T9e.jpg

What does a web browser have to do with mechs?

I can't imagine an eight legged robot having a very good top speed. Wheels and caterpillar tracks are going to win it every time.Depends on the terrain. Besides, it's not like you can't also have wheels on the ends of the legs.
e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikoma

Which is one of the reasons why you don't get 10ft long ants.Well, maybe not where you're from ;)

What does a web browser have to do with mechs?

:headbang:

Depends on the terrain. Besides, it's not like you can't also have wheels on the ends of the legs.
e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TachikomaI love those little guys. Not so much because they're cool, but because their American voice actors are essentially a mix of the Digidestined from Digimon Adventure and the Tamers with some Sasami from Tenchi Muyo and Rukia from Bleach thrown in for good measure.

I generally dislike dubbing as much as the next guy, but whenever I hear the Tachikomas talk I get warm, fuzzy memories of Saturday mornings when I was 10. :D

All that has been said plus cost of trainig pilots.

Mechs are silly, and riding one of those is like holding up a huge hit me sign. When it comes to sci fi military tech, unmanned aircraft/flying saucers are the way to go.

Depends on the terrain. Besides, it's not like you can't also have wheels on the ends of the legs.
e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikoma


That's a cartoon character.

It's interesting how if you look into the backstories of SciFi setting where 'mechs are prominently featured, they sort of deal with a lot of those issues by either accepting them or explaining them away via high tech.

For example, in Battletech/MechWarrior, 'mechs are almost a status symbol. They are a visible proof of the wealth and power of the individual houses of the Successor States. They're the equivalent of knights, and are meant to face each other in battle.

In the few novels I've read from that universe, the only thing that keeps the 'mechs a viable battlefield option is the implicit agreement on both sides to use them and not simply overwhelm a lance of 'mechs with a batallion of tanks. Even the clans do this. While not focusing exclusively on 'mechs they do handicap themselves by bidding for the right to assault a target based on who thinks they can do it with the least resources.

In a way, the Dark Age stuff almost makes more sense in that industrial 'mechs are refitted for war as a matter of necessity.

In Robotech, most of the issues are resolved wit one word: Protoculture. With that, you solve your power and weight problems with a mythical alien power source. Since in that universe, the mecha was designed to go toe to toe with giant aliens, it's something one can buy into, even if it still doesn't seem very realistic.

*snip*

And in a similar vein the Warhammer 40k universe gives them energy shields and impenetrable armor made of pure handwavium.

Not sure if they have say this before but walkers make a much easier target for ATWs since they offer much more targeting areas than a flat low tank.

Tracks are much more reliable than legs. All bipedal animals, specially humans, are always walking on a very unstable position and losing balance s actually extremely easy.

For example, in Battletech/MechWarrior, 'mechs are almost a status symbol. They are a visible proof of the wealth and power of the individual houses of the Successor States. They're the equivalent of knights, and are meant to face each other in battle.

In the few novels I've read from that universe, the only thing that keeps the 'mechs a viable battlefield option is the implicit agreement on both sides to use them and not simply overwhelm a lance of 'mechs with a batallion of tanks. Even the clans do this. While not focusing exclusively on 'mechs they do handicap themselves by bidding for the right to assault a target based on who thinks they can do it with the least resources.

In a way, the Dark Age stuff almost makes more sense in that industrial 'mechs are refitted for war as a matter of necessity.


I have a book with very detailed description of exactly how the technology works in terms of the Mechwarrior universe. They came up with a lot of ways to explain how at least in their brand of science fiction Battlemechs are not just possible but how they are even practical...

That's a cartoon character.No really?

And in what way does that detract from being a depiction of fictional machinery? This whole thread rests on the premise of a type of vehicle that doesn't exist, I can't really show a photo of that, now can I. :rolleyes:

I have a book with very detailed description of exactly how the technology works in terms of the Mechwarrior universe. They came up with a lot of ways to explain how at least in their brand of science fiction Battlemechs are not just possible but how they are even practical...

yeah, I do like the idea of the 'mechs moving by means of the myomer "muscle" bundles over the endoskeleton as opposed to servos, which tend to be heavy and inefficient.

One problem I have always had with the Battletech universe lore is heat. While it makes perfect sense in gaming terms as a constraint on going nuts with alpha strikes, it's hard for me to believe that the cockpit can protect the MechWarrior from the heat of a fusion reactor but not be able to bring it down just another 20 degrees or so to maintain the environment at a comfortable level that won't cause the operator to pass out from heat exhaustion from firing too many lasers at once.

No really?

And in what way does that detract from being a depiction of fictional machinery? This whole thread rests on the premise of a type of vehicle that doesn't exist, I can't really show a photo of that, now can I. :rolleyes:

I can!

Hah! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2OksmJthZc)

yeah, I do like the idea of the 'mechs moving by means of the myomer "muscle" bundles over the endoskeleton as opposed to servos, which tend to be heavy and inefficient.

I believe myomer artificial muscles are being developed currently. Fibers that bunch up when introduced to an electrical current.


One problem I have always had with the Battletech universe lore is heat. While it makes perfect sense in gaming terms as a constraint on going nuts with alpha strikes, it's hard for me to believe that the cockpit can protect the MechWarrior from the heat of a fusion reactor but not be able to bring it down just another 20 degrees or so to maintain the environment at a comfortable level that won't cause the operator to pass out from heat exhaustion from firing too many lasers at once.

As I understand it, the heat doesn't come from the fusion reactor. It comes from the weapons modules, which presumably would not be as well shielded thermally as a fusion bottle. In a sense, a tank may be well insulated from the engine's heat, but if the main gun is fired a great many times in a short period of time, there will be some heat bleed over from the barrel.

Although this would be more pronounced with energy weapons I suspect, since a projectile weapon bleeds heat from ejecting a spent cartridge. Energy weapons have no such thing, and as I understand it, one problem with current generation laser weapons is overheating.

No really?

And in what way does that detract from being a depiction of fictional machinery? This whole thread rests on the premise of a type of vehicle that doesn't exist, I can't really show a photo of that, now can I. :rolleyes:Graphical representations have the benefit of the doubt when gravity or similar things are concerned.

As I understand it, the heat doesn't come from the fusion reactor. It comes from the weapons modules, which presumably would not be as well shielded thermally as a fusion bottle. In a sense, a tank may be well insulated from the engine's heat, but if the main gun is fired a great many times in a short period of time, there will be some heat bleed over from the barrel.

Although this would be more pronounced with energy weapons I suspect, since a projectile weapon bleeds heat from ejecting a spent cartridge. Energy weapons have no such thing, and as I understand it, one problem with current generation laser weapons is overheating.

Yes, it works like that, in Battletech the 'Mechs fusion engine is actually efficient enough to help dissipate extra heat built up by firing those weapons.

I can't imagine an eight legged robot having a very good top speed. Wheels and caterpillar tracks are going to win it every time.
Plus, what works on a small scale won't always work on a larger one. Which is one of the reasons why you don't get 10ft long ants.

Just because you can't imagine it, that doesn't mean it's not possible. A thousand years ago, no one could have imagined the internet or an internal combustion engine.

And the reason we don't have larger insects is because of their primitive breathing system.

:headbang:

He's never been trained to think in Russian, I guess.

Stairs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnvo1nD-E7I). The ultimate in modern mech defense.

I believe myomer artificial muscles are being developed currently. Fibers that bunch up when introduced to an electrical current.



As I understand it, the heat doesn't come from the fusion reactor. It comes from the weapons modules, which presumably would not be as well shielded thermally as a fusion bottle. In a sense, a tank may be well insulated from the engine's heat, but if the main gun is fired a great many times in a short period of time, there will be some heat bleed over from the barrel.

Although this would be more pronounced with energy weapons I suspect, since a projectile weapon bleeds heat from ejecting a spent cartridge. Energy weapons have no such thing, and as I understand it, one problem with current generation laser weapons is overheating.

Yes, it works like that, in Battletech the 'Mechs fusion engine is actually efficient enough to help dissipate extra heat built up by firing those weapons.

Well, technically the 3 heat sinks that come standard with every engine is enough to dissipate all of the engine heat when the 'mech is at rest. Additional heat is generated by walking or running.

But even if we restrict our discussion to just the weapons as sources of heat, it's the same idea... All that heat generated yet the cockpit temp can only be maintained at a temperature where the MechWarrior has to fight in their underwear.

Hmmm... maybe it was an excuse to portray female MechWarriors in battle wearing just panties and a bra... That's kinda hot.

As a side note: Anyone remember this?

"Sensors: Online. Weapon Systems: Online. All functioning systems: Nominal."

Well, technically the 3 heat sinks that come standard with every engine is enough to dissipate all of the engine heat when the 'mech is at rest. Additional heat is generated by walking or running.

But even if we restrict our discussion to just the weapons as sources of heat, it's the same idea... All that heat generated yet the cockpit temp can only be maintained at a temperature where the MechWarrior has to fight in their underwear.

Hmmm... maybe it was an excuse to portray female MechWarriors in battle wearing just panties and a bra... That's kinda hot.

One small inaccuracy... in battletech each engine has 10 heat sinks ;).

One small inaccuracy... in battletech each engine has 10 heat sinks ;).

It does? Maybe I was thinking of gyros...

I thought the problem with modern lasers was fuel capacity.

I thought the problem with modern lasers was fuel capacity.

A series of problems really. The first is charge time, anything powerful enough to do anything to anybody would take a long time to charge. Second is size. A powerful laser is pretty damned big. Third is reuseability. Anything that powerful tends to be a one shot only deal, since it fries itself after the shot.

Lasers as warfare, under current technology would essentially be bulky, slow to fire, and be a one shot deal.

Hmmm... maybe it was an excuse to portray female MechWarriors in battle wearing just panties and a bra... That's kinda hot.

And 9/10 times in Battletech female mechwarriors were usually in either a leather fist and leather panties or a bra and panties. :p

And to anyone who speaks poorly of mechs, you anger me:http://mechwarrior.mytopix.com/img/a/atlas-0.jpg

A series of problems really. The first is charge time, anything powerful enough to do anything to anybody would take a long time to charge. Second is size. A powerful laser is pretty damned big. Third is reuseability. Anything that powerful tends to be a one shot only deal, since it fries itself after the shot.

Lasers as warfare, under current technology would essentially be bulky, slow to fire, and be a one shot deal.

Not necessarily, on the last part. There's current research ongoing into laser-powered anti-missile systems. Essentially you train a high-power laser on a target long enough, and it heats up the missile and causes it to explode. It's biggest drawback is that it's still fairly slow, since even with the most powerful lasers we have it takes a while to heat something up, especially at the distances involved (since the greater the distance, the higher the rate of dispersion and consequently the lower the power per unit area on the contact surface).

Still, it's a good idea for things that are in the air for a while and that you can track well enough.

As far as "laser pulse" weapons go, it's always struck me as a really cool, but wholely untenable idea for the reasons you highlighted, though I'm still unsure about the reusability part.

Sorry Neo Art I got confused the US ALA project is a chemical laser the thread is referring to true lasers which run on electricity.

Not necessarily, on the last part. There's current research ongoing into laser-powered anti-missile systems. Essentially you train a high-power laser on a target long enough, and it heats up the missile and causes it to explode. It's biggest drawback is that it's still fairly slow, since even with the most powerful lasers we have it takes a while to heat something up, especially at the distances involved (since the greater the distance, the higher the rate of dispersion and consequently the lower the power per unit area on the contact surface).

Still, it's a good idea for things that are in the air for a while and that you can track well enough.

As far as "laser pulse" weapons go, it's always struck me as a really cool, but wholely untenable idea for the reasons you highlighted, though I'm still unsure about the reusability part.

True, but I'm talking more of the "penetrate tanks" idea. Anything that strong has a tendency to...melt.

True, but I'm talking more of the "penetrate tanks" idea. Anything that strong has a tendency to...melt.

Not necessarily; if it's a fairly conventional mirror type laser you would simply need a bigger mirror. But I wouldn't use lasers to penetrate armor so much (for that reason as well as power issues), but they're fine for killing people with. 5 kW beam power has been stated as the benchmark for a battlefield laser weapon, and that's not all that hard to produce.

Speaking of which, Northrop Grumman announecd Firestrike (http://www.laserfocusworld.com/display_article/345272/12/none/none/PRODH/Northrop-Grumman-releases-FIRESTRIKE-solid-state-laser-weapo), a 15 kW laser weapon. 400 lbs for the LRU however, but it's supposed to be "rugged" and have a continuous fire as long as coolant and power are available. So not exactly a one-shot thing anyway.

Sorry Neo Art I got confused the US ALA project is a chemical laser the thread is referring to true lasers which run on electricity.

Not sure what you mean here. Lasers generally work on electron excitation from an induced charge, but you can get genuine lasers without necessarily applying a current.

Hell, you can get NdYAG to lase in peanut butter under a heat lamp.

And 9/10 times in Battletech female mechwarriors were usually in either a leather fist and leather panties or a bra and panties. :p

And to anyone who speaks poorly of mechs, you anger me:http://mechwarrior.mytopix.com/img/a/atlas-0.jpg

The Atlas is SLOW. I prefer something that can at least get out of its own way.

Chemical lasers work by mixing two catalists which react producing a intense burst of radiation. Developed in the 80s as part of the Reagan era "star wars" SDI initative there is footage of Trident boosters exploding after being irradiated.

The Atlas is SLOW. I prefer something that can at least get out of its own way.

Yah, in a world where there are omnimechs, why would anyone choose an Inner Sphere chasis?

Well, technically the 3 heat sinks that come standard with every engine is enough to dissipate all of the engine heat when the 'mech is at rest. Additional heat is generated by walking or running.

10 actually, and those are more than enough to deal with walking and running heat by lore.


But even if we restrict our discussion to just the weapons as sources of heat, it's the same idea... All that heat generated yet the cockpit temp can only be maintained at a temperature where the MechWarrior has to fight in their underwear.

I'm not sure about that. We are talking about temperatures in the excess of thousands of degrees after all, just from the fusion core (if it isn't cold fusion) alone and how many hundreds of degrees from weapons discharge. A mere ten or twenty degrees difference may not be that easy to keep after you've already bled several hundred/thousand degrees of heat.

If not for those heat sinks, rather than a pilot in his/her personal sauna, you'd have ashes in a molten lump of what was the cockpit.


Hmmm... maybe it was an excuse to portray female MechWarriors in battle wearing just panties and a bra... That's kinda hot.

They wear cooling jackets IIRC.

Yah, in a world where there are omnimechs, why would anyone choose an Inner Sphere chasis?

1. Because Atlas is awesome.
2. Because I couldnt find a threatening looking Mad Dog or Hellbringer as quickly:p



They wear cooling jackets IIRC.
You do remember correctly

As a side note: Anyone remember this?

"Sensors: Online. Weapon Systems: Online. All functioning systems: Nominal."

MECHWARRIOR 2 FTW!!!!

That seriously was the best Mechwarrior game. Its what started me on my long, abysmal spiral into playing lots of video games.

I recently found my old old computer from when I was like...5, dusted it off, and set it up, just to play Mech 2 again.

Yah, in a world where there are omnimechs, why would anyone choose an Inner Sphere chasis?

Because there is an Omni version of the Atlas too... and it kills shit dead. very dead... and I prefer IS Mechs because heat is easier to manage.

10 actually, and those are more than enough to deal with walking and running heat by lore.


I stand corrected.


I'm not sure about that. We are talking about temperatures in the excess of thousands of degrees after all, just from the fusion core (if it isn't cold fusion) alone and how many hundreds of degrees from weapons discharge. A mere ten or twenty degrees difference may not be that easy to keep after you've already bled several hundred/thousand degrees of heat.

It just seems like an awful small threshold when we consider the magnitude of the heat itself. Like any system able to deal with that amount of heat should have no trouble maintaining. If not, then the MechWarrior should be barbecued.

Mind you, I don't mean to make a big issue out of this. I still think it's a great way to constrain the player and force him/her to think strategically.


If not for those heat sinks, rather than a pilot in his/her personal sauna, you'd have ashes in a molten lump of what was the cockpit.


Of course.


They wear cooling jackets IIRC.

Yeah, but that jacket is always open in front and only goes down to the waist :D

1. Because Atlas is awesome.
2. Because I couldnt find a threatening looking Mad Dog or Hellbringer as quickly:p


Meh. I'll still take a Mad Cat Mk II.

Twin linked heavy Gauss FTW!

MECHWARRIOR 2 FTW!!!!

That seriously was the best Mechwarrior game. Its what started me on my long, abysmal spiral into playing lots of video games.

I recently found my old old computer from when I was like...5, dusted it off, and set it up, just to play Mech 2 again.

Actually I was thinking MechWarrior 4:Vengeance. The all time greatest PC game ever.

Because there is an Omni version of the Atlas too... and it kills shit dead. very dead... and I prefer IS Mechs because heat is easier to manage.

Are you referring to the Daishi?

And don't forget clan heat sinks have twice the cooling for only 50% more space required.

Actually I was thinking MechWarrior 4:Vengeance. The all time greatest PC game ever.

Fail. 2 > 4. 2 was the best.:p



Are you referring to the Daishi?


Nah, the Inner Sphere eventually caught onto Omni tech and configed some of their mechs to be Omnis. Atlas was one of them. This was further down in the storyline. Clan Invasion is were its at.

It just seems like an awful small threshold when we consider the magnitude of the heat itself.


Well, it's either a design issue of "eh, if they don't die and can still fight, no problem", or they simply can't push it down any further without weird climate control issues. It's not just hot gases that the heatsinks have to work with after all, but heated surface areas.

A watered down example of this would be a car you've left in the sun all day. You can crank up the air conditioner all the way to full blast, but the heat from the dashboard will still mix in with the cold air, resulting in sometimes uncomfortably hot air despite what the air conditioner is outputting.


Yeah, but that jacket is always open in front and only goes down to the waist :D

Since I've never seen any such imagery, and only read the books, I'll have to take your word for it.


Meh. I'll still take a Mad Cat Mk II.

Twin linked heavy Gauss FTW!

Depends on the kind of loadout you want. An MK II is more ammo dependent than I like. I generally prefer a PPC carrying MK I, even if I have to sacrifice jump jets for it.

That being said, nothing carries as much short range stopping power as a Dire Wolf (Daishi to the Inner Sphere) with 5 autocannon-LBX 20s or 4 autocannon-LBX 20s and 2 LBX-10s. A single coordinated hit from that much massed firepower at short range is usually enough to shred even an Atlas instantly.

Depends on the kind of loadout you want. An MK II is more ammo dependent than I like. I generally prefer a PPC carrying MK I, even if I have to sacrifice jump jets for it.

That being said, nothing carries as much short range stopping power as a Dire Wolf (Daishi to the Inner Sphere) with 5 autocannon-LBX 20s or 4 autocannon-LBX 20s and 2 LBX-10s. A single coordinated hit from that much massed firepower at short range is usually enough to shred even an Atlas instantly.


I tend to prefer mechs capable of long range punishment as well as close range fire. I also like manuverability. For the Clan, I prefer the Mad Dog (Vulture to the Inner Sphere barbarians) and Hellbringer (Loki). Pumas are sweet because they carry enough firepower to level a medium to heavy mech in the form of a fast little light mech.

For the Inner Sphere Ive always been partial to Commandos, Ravens (love those buggers), Black Knights (take skill to use in any game system, PC or not, because they overheat like a fuckin star), and Stalkers.

I tend to prefer mechs capable of long range punishment as well as close range fire. I also like manuverability. For the Clan, I prefer the Mad Dog (Vulture to the Inner Sphere barbarians) and Hellbringer (Loki). Pumas are sweet because they carry enough firepower to level a medium to heavy mech in the form of a fast little light mech.

For the Inner Sphere Ive always been partial to Commandos, Ravens (love those buggers), Black Knights (take skill to use in any game system, PC or not, because they overheat like a fuckin star), and Stalkers.

I tend to prefer a Thor as a heavy if a Timber Wolf isn't available, especially if fighting will take place in large urban environments. And I'd prefer a Cougar to a Puma. PPCs are easier to deal good damage with in its weight class, but create too much heat for my liking, and it is a lot less agile than a Cougar, not to mention a Cougar's jump jets.

Inner Sphere wise, it's hard to say. A Catapult has it's uses, while an Uziel is a good in between design.

Has this turned into a Mech Warrior thread?

While I love Mech Warrior, I absolutely love the customization in AC. I always over-design my mech. I remember spending hours on just one.
And, of course, there's always the Spirit of Mother Will (http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1927/acfaentrance1600zf1.jpg). :p

I tend to prefer a Thor as a heavy if a Timber Wolf isn't available, especially if fighting will take place in large urban environments. And I'd prefer a Cougar to a Puma.

I forgot about Summoners (sorry, Im a clan player, its hard for me to use the IS name by default). Theyre pretty sweet too. So is the cougar.


In urban settings, Ill agree on the Summoner. If Im IS, Id take a Highlander. Assualt mech with balistic weaponry up the ass and jumpjets? YES PLEASE.


I still like Mad Dogs. They just...look awesome. How can you not like those things.

Current technology and materials is going to make any bipedal tank at best bulky, slow, ineffective and very, very expensive. The first breakthroughs with man-machine interface will be through conventional military vehicles, i.e. tanks and fighters.

Current technology and materials is going to make any bipedal tank at best bulky, slow, ineffective and very, very expensive. The first breakthroughs with man-machine interface will be through conventional military vehicles, i.e. tanks and fighters.

But I would totally join the military if we had mechs.

No really?

And in what way does that detract from being a depiction of fictional machinery? This whole thread rests on the premise of a type of vehicle that doesn't exist, I can't really show a photo of that, now can I. :rolleyes:

It doesn't detract from it being a depiction of fictional machinery. That's the problem - it's fictional. It has no bearing whatsoever on the question of whether something is practical, or even physically possible.

Just because you can't imagine it, that doesn't mean it's not possible. A thousand years ago, no one could have imagined the internet or an internal combustion engine.


That's very true. Now get to work imagining an engine that would work brilliantly at powering a load of metal legs, but for some reason couldn't be used to power wheels.


And the reason we don't have larger insects is because of their primitive breathing system.


And the fact that they would collapse under their own weight.

Fail. 2 > 4. 2 was the best.:p


I'll have to take your word for it. I never played 2.


Nah, the Inner Sphere eventually caught onto Omni tech and configed some of their mechs to be Omnis. Atlas was one of them. This was further down in the storyline. Clan Invasion is were its at.

Gotcha.

I was thinking, in the FASA game materials they seem to imply that the Daishi was a Clan omni, yet in the original Clan trilogy it's clear that the Daishi was developed by Wolf's Dragoons for IS use. Are they saying that since it was Clan tech implemented by an agent of Clan Wolf, that it's a Clan design?


Since I've never seen any such imagery, and only read the books, I'll have to take your word for it.


I was thinking of an illustration from the MechWarrior RPG Second Edition.


Depends on the kind of loadout you want. An MK II is more ammo dependent than I like. I generally prefer a PPC carrying MK I, even if I have to sacrifice jump jets for it.

I generally do too, and when playing a MkI that's my default.

But the big problem with Timber Wolf/Mad Cat is the cockpit is huge, and hits to the center torso are very easy to achieve. (At least, in the PC game where you can place your shots) I think the MkII has an overall lower proportion of armor than the MkI so killing at range is even more critical. If I'm going Assault class, I definitely want to try and snipe my enemies as far away as possible, and so make mine Gauss!


That being said, nothing carries as much short range stopping power as a Dire Wolf (Daishi to the Inner Sphere) with 5 autocannon-LBX 20s or 4 autocannon-LBX 20s and 2 LBX-10s. A single coordinated hit from that much massed firepower at short range is usually enough to shred even an Atlas instantly.

Indeed. That 'mech is definitely at its best in a knife fight.

But the big problem with Timber Wolf/Mad Cat is the cockpit is huge, and hits to the center torso are very easy to achieve. (At least, in the PC game where you can place your shots) I think the MkII has an overall lower proportion of armor than the MkI so killing at range is even more critical. If I'm going Assault class, I definitely want to try and snipe my enemies as far away as possible, and so make mine Gauss!

While true that the MKI has a slightly easier to hit cockpit than say, a Summoner class, it does make up for it with a higher standard speed. Of all the heavy types available, it is a design best suited for fast, random movement and accurate shots.

That being said, a heavy gauss only has a range of 600 I believe, making it a mid range weapon at best. Sometimes opting for greater amounts of lighter, longer ranged weaponry work out better.


Indeed. That 'mech is definitely at its best in a knife fight.

Quite. On a different note, it took some experimentation, but it does seem that there is a good use for LRMs and CS MRMs other than throwaway secondaries. If massed in large quantities and correctly aimed after locking on, it is possible to direct nearly the entire volley into a single location rather than all over as is usually the case.

Are you referring to the Daishi?

And don't forget clan heat sinks have twice the cooling for only 50% more space required.

I am referring to the AS7-D version. It is the first Inner Sphere Omnimech and quite capable of taking down an equivalent Clan 'Mech.
Clan Omnimechs usually have double heat sinks included with them that are 100% the size of a typical Inner Sphere Heat Sink, but it wasn't long before the Inner Sphere had its own double heat sinks that were 50% larger than the clans... but the IS also created micro heat sinks that you can fit 2 of in a single slot and you get 20 of them on an engine.

Hmm.. in the video games I prefered to stick to light and Medium Mech's. I was particularly fond of the Hellspawn in 4 especially in tournament multiplayer where I lead a very successful scout and HK lance comprised of 40-55 ton battlemechs.

My personal 'Mech in tourney was a Hellspawn reconfigured to carry a Clan LRM 15, and three clan pulse lasers (admittedly not something you can actually do in Battletech) and extra ammo for the LRM. Tossed on an engine upgrade night optics, active probe, and an extra ton of armor. When I needed more firepower all the extra electronics, armor, and ammo and were scrapped for an Ultra AC/5.

Very fast and very lethal even to heavier Mech's.

I was thinking, in the FASA game materials they seem to imply that the Daishi was a Clan omni, yet in the original Clan trilogy it's clear that the Daishi was developed by Wolf's Dragoons for IS use. Are they saying that since it was Clan tech implemented by an agent of Clan Wolf, that it's a Clan design?



I guess. the Dire Wolf (Daishi) has always been labelled as a Clan design, especially since the IS must have lost the designs (as they often did...) and not reencounted it till the Clan invasion.

My memories a bit fuzzy, but its also possible that the Dire Wolf is just a clan upgraded verison of the Daishi, and they are not one and the same like I remember.

While true that the MKI has a slightly easier to hit cockpit than say, a Summoner class, it does make up for it with a higher standard speed. Of all the heavy types available, it is a design best suited for fast, random movement and accurate shots.


In online play, I once took a MkI and completely stripped it of all weapons except for a pair of Clan PPCs. I filled the remaining space with heat sinks. Then I fiddled with the armor and engine loadouts to maximize speed and armor on areas most likely to be hit, removing armor from areas that didn't matter (Like the missile boxes.)

The design was so effective in the online arena that I was accused of hacking and all the other players booted me. It was both intensely annoying and incredibly complimentary. The ignored my protests of innocence.


That being said, a heavy gauss only has a range of 600 I believe, making it a mid range weapon at best. Sometimes opting for greater amounts of lighter, longer ranged weaponry work out better.


I think this might be where the tabletop version and the MW4 version differ. In MW4 the Heavy Gauss is one of the longest range weapons in the game, and is perfect for sniping since the round travels to the target instantly. Even when aiming at a moving target at extreme range you almost don't even have to lead it.


Quite. On a different note, it took some experimentation, but it does seem that there is a good use for LRMs and CS MRMs other than throwaway secondaries. If massed in large quantities and correctly aimed after locking on, it is possible to direct nearly the entire volley into a single location rather than all over as is usually the case.

The only thing that scares me about that is if you're hitting the CT and destroy it, you're right at ground zero when the reactor goes.

I think this might be where the tabletop version and the MW4 version differ. In MW4 the Heavy Gauss is one of the longest range weapons in the game, and is perfect for sniping since the round travels to the target instantly. Even when aiming at a moving target at extreme range you almost don't even have to lead it.

You are correct. On the table top game the Heavy Guess is not too long ranged, thats the trade off. I always prefered the regular Gauss rifle. Weighs less and longer range.

I guess. the Dire Wolf (Daishi) has always been labelled as a Clan design, especially since the IS must have lost the designs (as they often did...) and not reencounted it till the Clan invasion.

My memories a bit fuzzy, but its also possible that the Dire Wolf is just a clan upgraded verison of the Daishi, and they are not one and the same like I remember.

I'll have to break out my BT materials over the weekend and see, but I think in game terms you're right about the Daishi being a purely Clan design, and maybe Stackpole deviated from that in the novels. One could argue that it's still a Clan design, having originated from Wolf's Dragoons, but I don't recall any Clanner using one in those novels.

I'll have to break out my BT materials over the weekend and see, but I think in game terms you're right about the Daishi being a purely Clan design, and maybe Stackpole deviated from that in the novels. One could argue that it's still a Clan design, having originated from Wolf's Dragoons, but I don't recall any Clanner using one in those novels.

Stackpole was pretty conistant with the lore though, and much of what he wrote became canon.

What most likely happened was the "losing" of the designs and then the clans upgrading it.

And youre right, the only person I remember who's ride was a Dire Wolf (Daishi) was Victor Steiner-Davion

I'll just be ignored then...

Stackpole was pretty conistant with the lore though, and much of what he wrote became canon.

What most likely happened was the "losing" of the designs and then the clans upgrading it.

And youre right, the only person I remember who's ride was a Dire Wolf (Daishi) was Victor Steiner-Davion

Yeah he and Hohiro Kurita were each awarded one by Colonel Wolf during the Clan Invasion.

I dunno I never fell in love with it in MechWarrior 4... Too slow. In the final mission of the game you have to fight one in a one on one duel after you've fought your way through a tough fight already. ('mech repair bays are available to quickly repair and reload if you're quick and they weren't destroyed in the battle) I beat it using a Mad Cat MkII spec'd for speed, and all I had to do was snipe and move, snipe and move... and keep obstacles between me and the Daishi. It couldn't keep up.

I'll just be ignored then...Don't worry, I was, as well. :p

I'm surprised that I didn't get jumped fo being an AC fan. :D

I am referring to the AS7-D version. It is the first Inner Sphere Omnimech and quite capable of taking down an equivalent Clan 'Mech.
Clan Omnimechs usually have double heat sinks included with them that are 100% the size of a typical Inner Sphere Heat Sink, but it wasn't long before the Inner Sphere had its own double heat sinks that were 50% larger than the clans... but the IS also created micro heat sinks that you can fit 2 of in a single slot and you get 20 of them on an engine.

Hmm.. in the video games I prefered to stick to light and Medium Mech's. I was particularly fond of the Hellspawn in 4 especially in tournament multiplayer where I lead a very successful scout and HK lance comprised of 40-55 ton battlemechs.

My personal 'Mech in tourney was a Hellspawn reconfigured to carry a Clan LRM 15, and three clan pulse lasers (admittedly not something you can actually do in Battletech) and extra ammo for the LRM. Tossed on an engine upgrade night optics, active probe, and an extra ton of armor. When I needed more firepower all the extra electronics, armor, and ammo and were scrapped for an Ultra AC/5.

Very fast and very lethal even to heavier Mech's.

I'll just be ignored then...

Yeah, you will. :D

I've always been partial to the lighter, more maneuverable mechs. Give me a Raven over a Goliath any day.

I tended to be partial to Nova Cats in the actually Battletech game.

Yeah, you will. :D

I've always been partial to the lighter, more maneuverable mechs. Give me a Raven over a Goliath any day.

I tended to be partial to Nova Cats in the actually Battletech game.

My brother prefered the Nova Cat as well. He'd change the armor type and that was it.

I'll just be ignored then...

You're not being ignored... I have a question... are you talking MW2 or 4?

You're not being ignored... I have a question... are you talking MW2 or 4?

I said it was in 4, the Hellspawn wasn't featured in the other ones because it was a late model IS.

I said it was in 4, the Hellspawn wasn't featured in the other ones because it was a late model IS.

Then methinks at some point those of us who play MW4 ought to get together online...

(I have Vengeance and Mercs)

I said it was in 4, the Hellspawn wasn't featured in the other ones because it was a late model IS.

See, for me, Medium mechs are pointless. There are heavy mechs that move faster than they do.

Thats always been my least favorite weight class.

The one exception to my disdain for medium mechs is the Nova (Blackhawk). Moves like a light mech, punches like a heavy, and has the armor of a high end medium.

Im very partial to the Nova A variant, all those ER Medium Lasers...

Then methinks at some point those of us who play MW4 ought to get together online...

(I have Vengeance and Mercs)

I can't find my copy :(

See, for me, Medium mechs are pointless. There are heavy mechs that move faster than they do.

Thats always been my least favorite weight class.

The one exception to my disdain for medium mechs is the Nova (Blackhawk). Moves like a light mech, punches like a heavy, and has the armor of a high end medium.

Im very partial to the Nova A variant, all those ER Medium Lasers...

Uziel. All the way. Mount a pair of Clan PPCs on that puppy and dump the machine guns for extra heat sinks. Stick a SRM pod on top for the knife fights and you're good to go. Speed is awesome right from the showroom floor but if you really want more speed to sacrifice range then lose the ERPPCs and put on regular IS PPCs so you can free up weight from heat sinks for more engine.

I can't find my copy :(

D'oh!

Uziel. All the way. Mount a pair of Clan PPCs on that puppy and dump the machine guns for extra heat sinks. Stick a SRM pod on top for the knife fights and you're good to go. Speed is awesome right from the showroom floor but if you really want more speed to sacrifice range then lose the ERPPCs and put on regular IS PPCs so you can free up weight from heat sinks for more engine.


The Uziel has such a glass jaw though...

The Uziel has such a glass jaw though...

Yah it does... but it's definitely my favorite for Solaris matches, and as long as you can keep from getting surrounded in combat you can use the speed and decent torso twist arc to put fire on the enemy even as you're evading incoming shots.

Yah it does... but it's definitely my favorite for Solaris matches, and as long as you can keep from getting surrounded in combat you can use the speed and decent torso twist arc to put fire on the enemy even as you're evading incoming shots.

A near 360 degree torso rotation is nice.

I quite liked the MechCommander games

I quite liked the MechCommander games

I was kinda disappointed in those. It was like Microsoft took the truly awesome sim-like gameplay and turned it arcade style, and then wondered why it didn't take off.

Even though I really like towering 'Mechs, I must admit that they're not the most logical weapons platform. However, smaller humanoid combat vehicles more in line with the principles of cybernetically enhanced battle armor might actually proof to be lethal in urban and wooded terrain. Think Heavy Gear or the Tau Crisis Suits.

See, for me, Medium mechs are pointless. There are heavy mechs that move faster than they do.

Thats always been my least favorite weight class.

The one exception to my disdain for medium mechs is the Nova (Blackhawk). Moves like a light mech, punches like a heavy, and has the armor of a high end medium.

Im very partial to the Nova A variant, all those ER Medium Lasers...

No heavy mechs compare to 112 kph.

I think all those who dismiss mechs as viable military option are far too short sighted and too ingrained in their current mindset. If I was making a mech I would be attempting to create a robotic cheetah, with an anti-tank rifle on its back. You only have to compare the agility of the quadrupedal animal to the very best supercar. Both can manage 0-60mph in about 3 seconds, but the cheetah does so in far less optimum conditions than the supercar. Having legs instead of wheels also means that the mech has far better grip since the leg can be moved at a relative speed to the ground before touching it. And if loss of grip occurs the leg can simply be lifted from the ground and reapplied.

The other advantage that natural movement systems have over wheels or tracks is that have the property of graceful degradation. I presume you've all seen 3-legged dogs hobbling around. No where nears as agile, but they are by no means immobile. If a car loses a wheel or a tank loses a track then then they lose all movement capability and become sitting ducks.

But all in all it comes down to choosing the right tool for the job. If you were fighting in open plains then sure you should use tanks. But for less optimum conditions then tanks become much less useful.

I think all those who dismiss mechs as viable military option are far too short sighted and too ingrained in their current mindset. If I was making a mech I would be attempting to create a robotic cheetah, with an anti-tank rifle on its back. You only have to compare the agility of the quadrupedal animal to the very best supercar. Both can manage 0-60mph in about 3 seconds, but the cheetah does so in far less optimum conditions than the supercar. Having legs instead of wheels also means that the mech has far better grip since the leg can be moved at a relative speed to the ground before touching it. And if loss of grip occurs the leg can simply be lifted from the ground and reapplied.

The other advantage that natural movement systems have over wheels or tracks is that have the property of graceful degradation. I presume you've all seen 3-legged dogs hobbling around. No where nears as agile, but they are by no means immobile. If a car loses a wheel or a tank loses a track then then they lose all movement capability and become sitting ducks.

But all in all it comes down to choosing the right tool for the job. If you were fighting in open plains then sure you should use tanks. But for less optimum conditions then tanks become much less useful.

Your two posts were repetitive!

And redundant.

I think all those who dismiss mechs as viable military option are far too short sighted and too ingrained in their current mindset. If I was making a mech I would be attempting to create a robotic cheetah, with an anti-tank rifle on its back. You only have to compare the agility of the quadrupedal animal to the very best supercar. Both can manage 0-60mph in about 3 seconds, but the cheetah does so in far less optimum conditions than the supercar. Having legs instead of wheels also means that the mech has far better grip since the leg can be moved at a relative speed to the ground before touching it. And if loss of grip occurs the leg can simply be lifted from the ground and reapplied.

The other advantage that natural movement systems have over wheels or tracks is that have the property of graceful degradation. I presume you've all seen 3-legged dogs hobbling around. No where nears as agile, but they are by no means immobile. If a car loses a wheel or a tank loses a track then then they lose all movement capability and become sitting ducks.

But all in all it comes down to choosing the right tool for the job. If you were fighting in open plains then sure you should use tanks. But for less optimum conditions then tanks become much less useful.

It's not outright dismissal so much as pointing out that current technology and materials makes such an idea impractical.

It's the Behemoth Quandary in real life.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/4/45/StoneRhino.jpg/191px-StoneRhino.jpg

Hmm.. in the video games I prefered to stick to light and Medium Mech's. I was particularly fond of the Hellspawn in 4 especially in tournament multiplayer where I lead a very successful scout and HK lance comprised of 40-55 ton battlemechs.

My personal 'Mech in tourney was a Hellspawn reconfigured to carry a Clan LRM 15, and three clan pulse lasers (admittedly not something you can actually do in Battletech) and extra ammo for the LRM. Tossed on an engine upgrade night optics, active probe, and an extra ton of armor. When I needed more firepower all the extra electronics, armor, and ammo and were scrapped for an Ultra AC/5.

Very fast and very lethal even to heavier Mech's.

A Hellspawn? I could never make that design work. I prefer something stripped down with a 1-2 punch that makes up for it in speed and a bit of durability. Ryokens or Uziels fit nicely here.


The design was so effective in the online arena that I was accused of hacking and all the other players booted me. It was both intensely annoying and incredibly complimentary. The ignored my protests of innocence.


The tragedy of playing well.


I think this might be where the tabletop version and the MW4 version differ. In MW4 the Heavy Gauss is one of the longest range weapons in the game, and is perfect for sniping since the round travels to the target instantly. Even when aiming at a moving target at extreme range you almost don't even have to lead it.

That's odd. In MW4, the heavy gauss only showed up in the mercenaries expansion, and it had 600 meters range as opposed to a standard's 800, while a light had 1200 meters.


The only thing that scares me about that is if you're hitting the CT and destroy it, you're right at ground zero when the reactor goes.

With a CS MRM or CLRM? You're doing it wrong if you're firing at that range. A Catapult can be extremely lethal with either loads at maximum range if you're doing it right. The missiles will always attempt to hit the section you've got your targeting reticle on the moment they fire, regardless of whether they are Streak missiles or standard LRMs. The only difference being that LRMs will splash a random area on the mech if you lock on and don't go for precision fire.

Done right, a Catapult pilot can put 160 MRMs or 80 LRMs on a single targeted spot on an enemy mech at long range.

A Hellspawn? I could never make that design work. I prefer something stripped down with a 1-2 punch that makes up for it in speed and a bit of durability. Ryokens or Uziels fit nicely here.


Well, I made the one with the mentioned specs work, and work spectacularly. It had a good long range punch and could lay down constant fire patterns in close with the lasers.

In Battletech Games I also make it work by using an LRM 15 with 2 tons of ammo, and keep the three pulse lasers for close fighting. I change out the armor to Light Ferro Fibrous and add another ton of it (thanks to the weight saved by the LRM 15). I can also fit some A or B pods on there for a very well rounded design.

Well, I made the one with the mentioned specs work, and work spectacularly. It had a good long range punch and could lay down constant fire patterns in close with the lasers.

In Battletech Games I also make it work by using an LRM 15 with 2 tons of ammo, and keep the three pulse lasers for close fighting. I change out the armor to Light Ferro Fibrous and add another ton of it (thanks to the weight saved by the LRM 15). I can also fit some A or B pods on there for a very well rounded design.

Well, that's your play style. Generally, I prefer to build a system around a primary offense type, with the secondary only being meant to complement it at ranges it can't work at. It's generally why my picks have either a heavy long range energy or projectile loadout, with missiles as a backup, although that changes if I use a catapult.

Well, that's your play style. Generally, I prefer to build a system around a primary offense type, with the secondary only being meant to complement it at ranges it can't work at. It's generally why my picks have either a heavy long range energy or projectile loadout, with missiles as a backup, although that changes if I use a catapult.

I battletech I use aerospace, tanks, and infantry as my first line, I keep my battlemechs and power armor units in reserve and use them to assault the enemy's week points. If I have proto mechs (not a huge fan of them) I send them with the first wave.

Gotcha.

I was thinking, in the FASA game materials they seem to imply that the Daishi was a Clan omni, yet in the original Clan trilogy it's clear that the Daishi was developed by Wolf's Dragoons for IS use. Are they saying that since it was Clan tech implemented by an agent of Clan Wolf, that it's a Clan design?


Nah, The Dire Wolf/Daishi is very much a mech designed and built by the clans. The Dragoons were able to give them out since they had the plans and technical knowhow to build them.

I think all those who dismiss mechs as viable military option are far too short sighted and too ingrained in their current mindset. If I was making a mech I would be attempting to create a robotic cheetah, with an anti-tank rifle on its back. You only have to compare the agility of the quadrupedal animal to the very best supercar. Both can manage 0-60mph in about 3 seconds, but the cheetah does so in far less optimum conditions than the supercar.

Scientists and engineers have quite a long way to go before they can recreate the brain, nerves, joints and muscles which enable a living creature to operate. Then, once they've done that, they have to mass produce it in a form which is robust enough to operate on a battlefield. Then they have to persuade a government to invest in them, even though they will surely cost many times more than a tank.

Now, okay, it might happen one day. Then again, one day someone might invent the Super Amazing Cannon of Awesome Awesomeness, which fires 20 nuclear missiles per second and is accurate at distances of up to 57 light years.
That also might happen one day. But people who point out the inherent flaws in such a device aren't being "too short sighted and too ingrained in their current mindset", as you put it. They just aren't living in a dream world.