NationStates Jolt Archive

BNP members list published (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7736794.stm)

Serving and former police officers, teachers and soldiers are listed as members of the British National Party in a leaked document published online.

The list, which dates from 2007, has the names, addresses, jobs and phone numbers of more than 10,000 people.

Since 2004, police officers have been banned from being members of the BNP.

The party's leader, Nick Griffin, said the leak was "a disgraceful act of treachery" by former members and called for a police investigation.

In a statement on the BNP website, Mr Griffin said he had lodged a complaint with Dyfed-Powys Police on the grounds that the publication breached human rights and data protection laws.

'Discretion required'

Occupations ascribed to the listed names include teachers, a doctor, nurse, vicar and members of the armed forces...

It seems that someone has published a list of 10,000 members of everyone's favourite far-right muslim bashers, the British National Party.

Unfortunately, it has become apparent that many of its members have not actually told everyone what they think about people of different races and now face some embarassment over it. Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?

Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?Not I.

BNP members list published (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7736794.stm)



It seems that someone has published a list of 10,000 members of everyone's favourite far-right muslim bashers, the British National Party.

Unfortunately, it has become apparent that many of its members have not actually told everyone what they think about people of different races and now face some embarassment over it. Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?



I tell everyone my beliefs.

I make no secret of my political positions.

The only person I withhold some information about my personal beliefs from is my mother, but that is not because she wouldn't approve. On the contrary, I think she would approve too much. Mom has problems respecting other people's personal boundaries and likes to show support by involving herself in your private matters way too much and without invitation, so if there's anything of mine that I would rather not become all about her, I keep my mouth shut about it around her. But if she would stick to her side of the fence, as it were, then no, I have no personal beliefs that I wouldn't want to be open about with everyone.

EDIT: Btw, I think it's funny that the BNP has cop members, even though cops aren't allowed to be members, and they're so mad at that being outed that they want the cops to investigate.

It's their last desperate attempt to appeal to the majority, no doubt.

It's their last desperate attempt to appeal to the majority, no doubt.
If they're anything like the American crazy extreme rightwing, I'll bet it won't be their last attempt.

If they're anything like the American crazy extreme rightwing, I'll bet it won't be their last attempt.
http://www.9news.com/news/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=103533&catid=337
*sobs*

http://www.9news.com/news/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=103533&catid=337
*sobs*
*jumps out window*

http://www.9news.com/news/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=103533&catid=337
*sobs*...No. Just...no. Just when I thought there was hope!

To Palin: (Though you will most likely never read this, and probably not understand this...) Usen'ye!

Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?

Why? Some people may not like to cop abuse from people who know nothing on their actual beliefs and not something that has been twisted by the abuser. It is the reason why voting is done by secret ballot. And if they don't want people to know that is their prerogative. I am sure you would be saying the same about gays who don't want to come out to their co-workers because they don't want to cop their abuse.

EDIT: Btw, I think it's funny that the BNP has cop members, even though cops aren't allowed to be members, and they're so mad at that being outed that they want the cops to investigate.

That is ironic.

I'm also willing to bet that for members of the armed forces this is going to play havoc with their security clearance (and yes, all armed forces go through some level of security vetting). Definitly if they have kept quite about it (like organisations such as the communist party, I'm pretty certain BNP membership is one of those ones you are meant to declare on your security clearance application form)

The British Nazi Party gets all it deserves, in my book.

Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?I really don't think it's having a problem with the beliefs per se, but more of a problem with the reaction of society. They're not uncomfortable with their stance, but how that stance would be percieved.

BNP members list published (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7736794.stm)



It seems that someone has published a list of 10,000 members of everyone's favourite far-right muslim bashers, the British National Party.

Unfortunately, it has become apparent that many of its members have not actually told everyone what they think about people of different races and now face some embarassment over it. Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?

I woke up to this news this morning, and chortled all the way into work, in fact inside I'm laughing soooo much it make me hurt.

I really don't think it's having a problem with the beliefs per se, but more of a problem with the reaction of society. They're not uncomfortable with their stance, but how that stance would be percieved.

Yeah my wife and I were saying much the same this morning. She asked me do you think it is because at some level they know how fundementaly wrong their position is?

Why? Some people may not like to cop abuse from people who know nothing on their actual beliefs and not something that has been twisted by the abuser. It is the reason why voting is done by secret ballot. And if they don't want people to know that is their prerogative. I am sure you would be saying the same about gays who don't want to come out to their co-workers because they don't want to cop their abuse.

Is having you sexual preference at work revealed really the same as having it revealed that you think your non-white cowrokers should be thrown out of the country? Being gay doesn't really impact your ability to be a police officer or teacher - but can someone who think that "Pakis should go home" effectively protect Asian people from racist abuse or educate a child who is an immigrant?

Is having you sexual preference at work revealed really the same as having it revealed that you think your non-white cowrokers should be thrown out of the country? Being gay doesn't really impact your ability to be a police officer or teacher - but can someone who think that "Pakis should go home" effectively protect Asian people from racist abuse or educate a child who is an immigrant?

No, but not everyone wants their sexual preference reveled because they don't want to cop abuse from people who are misinformed about that issue. In the same way if they want to keep their political views silent that should be allowed to. It's why we have secret voting so people don't know who you are voting for. Now I admit it is a poor analogy and I was expecting someone to say one is chosen, while the other isn't but that is really beside the point. If people want to remain silent on issues they should be allowed to without people going around and outing them for it. And yes someone who thinks "Pakis should go home" can be an effective teacher. While they may think they shouldn't be here, it is still their job and they can still do that to the best of their ability.

The best thing about all this BNP malarky is that they want to use the Human Rights Act (a contender for their most hated piece of legislation, right up there with the Race Relations Act) to try and keep this all hush hush.

It never hurts to know who your home-grown nazis are.

The best thing about all this BNP malarky is that they want to use the Human Rights Act (a contender for their most hated piece of legislation, right up there with the Race Relations Act) to try and keep this all hush hush.
To quote Peter Griffin in a barbershop quartet: "That's the definition of ironyyyyyyyyy..."

They should crawl back from the nasty little rock where they came from, in my opinion. I just hope that the factional dispute between the hard line and the 'moderate' (inso far as they think the BNP should pretend not to be racist) sends them onto the BUF, NF and Veritas junk-heap of unwanted political mistakes.

I was going to post the link last night but I thought I would get a mod spanking for it :(

anyway I found like one guy who lives vaguely near me and nobody I know so I guess round these parts we are all tight gits or something (I couldn't even find my neo-nazi uncle so I guess hes NF)

Now, to be fair, I'd be pissed, too. Nazi's are only in their prime when they are in a larger gang to beat up immigrants. If the immigrants know who they are, they might actually fight back!

Oh, the humanity. Tragic.

I think anyone who was on that list who shouldn't've been should be sacked straight away.

I was going to post the link last night but I thought I would get a mod spanking for it :(


Probably correct - publishing it breaches a court order.
My main concern with this list is that it might not be entirely accurate. Probably a few parents with 'family membership' have children who aren't onside with the whole BNP thing. Sure, many will have picked up their parents' views, but not all.

Plus there's probably a few silly sods who joined because they got taken in by the BNP's recent attempts to put up a respectable image. Some will have left in disgust by now, but there's a good chance their names will still be on the list.

Welcome to the new McCarthyism - "Were you or were you not ever a member of a political party we don't entirely agree with?"

BNP members list published (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7736794.stm)



It seems that someone has published a list of 10,000 members of everyone's favourite far-right muslim bashers, the British National Party.

Unfortunately, it has become apparent that many of its members have not actually told everyone what they think about people of different races and now face some embarassment over it. Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?
While I would not be overly concerned sharing my political beliefs, they are known to my friends and coworkers I would shy away from sharing that with my family they are pretty hardcore rightwing

Not I.

I tell everyone my beliefs.

I make no secret of my political positions.
Same goes for me. Then again, I don't support a racist political party, so...

...No. Just...no. Just when I thought there was hope!

To Palin: (Though you will most likely never read this, and probably not understand this...) Usen'ye!

On the other hand, short of Obama out-Bushing Bush in terms of Presidential Fuck-Ups, this will merely be a relief-aid to comedians all over the United States, namely the Holy Quadrinity of Political Comedy (The Onion, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, and Chocolate News).

Welcome to the new McCarthyism - "Were you or were you not ever a member of a political party we don't entirely agree with?"

New? We've had it for the last 8 years.

"Did you, or did you not unpatriotically disagree with our Dear Leader- er President and his policies?"

New? We've had it for the last 8 years.

"Did you, or did you not unpatriotically disagree with our Dear Leader- er President and his policies?"

Yet, it's the right-wing party that winds up having very members' privacy blown to the winds...

Yet, it's the right-wing party that winds up having very members' privacy blown to the winds...

By former members of said right-wing party. You're overblowing it the way they called Caribou Barbie's public e-mail account stupidity "hacking".

Just watching BBC news and they had a BNP member on saying 'it is like living in a fascist state' - I thought that was what they wanted.

Just watching BBC news and they had a BNP member on saying 'it is like living in a fascist state' - I thought that was what they wanted.

Yes, but they wanted a fascist state where they were the fascists in charge.

:D

Extra lulz if these BNPers start putting on Guy Fawkes masks.

I think anyone who was on that list who shouldn't've been should be sacked straight away.

:rolleyes:

who wouldn't be ashamed of far right beliefs! i think that they should be removed from any position were they deal with the public, schools hospitals and the police

just saw that same bbc report, it actually shames me to see one of there rallies as it strikes me every time that they are dragging my flag and everything it stands for through the mud!

I am intolerant of intolerance

who wouldn't be ashamed of far right beliefs! i think that they should be removed from any position were they deal with the public, schools hospitals and the police

The same should be said for far left beliefs as well. In fact why don't we keep all beliefs from across the political spectrum out of schools.

Though how it affects hospitals and the police I don't know.

I think anyone who was on that list who shouldn't've been should be sacked straight away.

Yeah, its not like, you know, firing people for their political beliefs is, you know, wrong or anything.

OK, let me admit that I know little about the BNP and am utterly disgusted and appalled by what I do know about the BNP.

That said, this publishing of lists of members and persecution of people on said lists disturbs me.

This makes me think of the U.S. Constitution's protection of the right of association and, particularly, of the attempts over several decades to publish lists of members of the NAACP as a way to silence them. See link (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/12.html#1)

Though how it affects hospitals and the police I don't know.

Yeah, campaigning for anyone who isn't white to be deported is in no way in conflict with being a policeman who serves everybody in society equally.

Yeah, campaigning for anyone who isn't white to be deported is in no way in conflict with being a policeman who serves everybody in society equally.

Who serves to protect those in the society from others who are breaking the law. And while it may be in conflict doesn't mean you can't do your job anyway, and help to prevent crime and arrest the perpetators of crime.

Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?
Not myself, but telling everyone I associate with about my political views would make their lives a bit boring, so I don't often bring politics up.

And while it may be in conflict doesn't mean you can't do your job anyway, and help to prevent crime and arrest the perpetators of crime.

It undermines confidence in the system. If you think the policeman you just walked past might hate you because of your race it doesn't help much.

OK, let me admit that I know little about the BNP and am utterly disgusted and appalled by what I do know about the BNP.

That said, this publishing of lists of members and persecution of people on said lists disturbs me.

This makes me think of the U.S. Constitution's protection of the right of association and, particularly, of the attempts over several decades to publish lists of members of the NAACP as a way to silence them. See link (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/12.html#1)

Yes, but unlike the NAACP the list for the BNP was leaked by former party members. Can't seriously imagine anyone in the NAACP who would want to damage the civil rights cause by leaking the membership roster to the public.

It undermines confidence in the system. If you think the policeman you just walked past might hate you because of your race it doesn't help much.

Well doesn't this show why the list should not have been released?

Let's do a bit of creative editing:


Dateline: Munich, 1940
Serving and former police officers, teachers and soldiers are listed as members of the Social Democratic Party in a leaked document published online.

The list, which dates from 1939, has the names, addresses, jobs and phone numbers of more than 10,000 people.

Since 1939, police officers have been banned from being members of the SDP.

The party's leader, Fritz Dammerung, said the leak was "a disgraceful act of treachery" by former members and called for a police investigation.

In a statement on the Social Democrat's party paper, Mr Dammerung said he had lodged a complaint with Munich Police on the grounds that the publication breached human rights and data protection laws.

'Discretion required'

Occupations ascribed to the listed names include teachers, a doctor, nurse, vicar and members of the armed forces...

I don't support the BNP (based on what I know about it, I'm not an Englishman), but I hope you see where I am going. People in elite positions in Britain greatly dislike the BNP platform, and social and professional consequences can and already have resulted from this disdain.

Let's do a bit of creative editing:



I don't support the BNP (based on what I know about it, I'm not an Englishman), but I hope you see where I am going. People in elite positions in Britain greatly dislike the BNP platform, and social and professional consequences can and already have resulted from this disdain.

Whas your point? Its wrong that people hate Nazis?

Yes, but unlike the NAACP the list for the BNP was leaked by former party members. Can't seriously imagine anyone in the NAACP who would want to damage the civil rights cause by leaking the membership roster to the public.

Although attempts to force the NAACP to give governments list of its members were at issue in many of the freedom of association cases, the principle that one should be able to freely associate and not be penalized unfairly for those associations was also at issue and is relevant here.

Now, I see obvious differences between the NAACP and the BNP that would justify my treating members of each group differently (in part because I am a member of the former) and perhaps persecution of BNP members can be justified. I just find the whole subject of persecution for one's political beliefs or associations distateful and worrying. There were certainly large portions of the populations of certain U.S. states that believed at the time that the NAACP was just as subversive an organization as you or I might feel about the BNP.

Dododecapod's concerns about modern McCarthyism aren't that far-fetched --even though we are significant step away from active government persecution.

(I am not sure how I feel about BNP members being banned from police and prison service. On the one hand, it makes perfect sense. On the other, would the same rule apply to Communists, Anarchists, etc.?)

It is wrong when a members of a political group that does not advocated violence suffer from non-political punishments for their membership (which is the whole point of this membership outing, given the leftist leaning of most European elites). If you don't like the BNP, campaign against them and make sure they lose elections and ballot initiatives, not their jobs.

It is wrong when a members of a political group that does not advocated violence suffer from non-political punishments for their membership (which is the whole point of this membership outing, given the leftist leaning of most European elites). If you don't like the BNP, campaign against them and make sure they lose elections and ballot initiatives, not their jobs.

Isn't part of the issue with the BNP that they are associated with and/or advocate violence?

I've never heard of it being the official, or even unofficially endorsed, position of the BNP to have people going around in their name, beating up their political opponents, setting fire to their opponent's property, or doing similar things in the name of political change. As far as I can tell, the party apparatus and the vast majority of members have been 100% compliant with the laws of the Kingdom, and have sought to make things go their way through running election campaigns in exactly the same way as everyone else.

Again, this is based on my own research. If you can provide links that prove that the BNP has either officially endorsed or unofficially sanctioned violence as a political tactic, then I will happily change my mind.

I was going to post the link last night but I thought I would get a mod spanking for it :(

anyway I found like one guy who lives vaguely near me and nobody I know so I guess round these parts we are all tight gits or something (I couldn't even find my neo-nazi uncle so I guess hes NF)

I found one of my ex freinds, unsupprisingly.

I've never heard of it being the official, or even unofficially endorsed, position of the BNP to have people going around in their name, beating up their political opponents, setting fire to their opponent's property, or doing similar things in the name of political change. As far as I can tell, the party apparatus and the vast majority of members have been 100% compliant with the laws of the Kingdom, and have sought to make things go their way through running election campaigns in exactly the same way as everyone else.

Again, this is based on my own research. If you can provide links that prove that the BNP has either officially endorsed or unofficially sanctioned violence as a political tactic, then I will happily change my mind.

Heh just like the IRA and Sin Fienn you mean?

I feel in a strange mood, I'm glad that this list has been published, I know that the brave persona who did it will most likel(and rightly so) be hit with the law.

It shows the BNP to be hypocritical in using a law they campaing to get rid of, but then we all knew that anyway.
I get your point, and I do agree with you, it was out of order really, but you know I'm still glad.

I found one of my ex freinds, unsupprisingly.
I was tempted to look and see, but thought better of it. One in ten people in Billericay vote BNP, so I probably know plenty of BNP voters and possible BNP members already, including a couple possibly from my old school, assuming they could summon the brain cells needed to read the ballot. What you don't know can't hurt you, eh?

I was tempted to look and see, but thought better of it. One in ten people in Billericay vote BNP, so I probably know plenty of BNP voters and possible BNP members already, including a couple possibly from my old school, assuming they could summon the brain cells needed to read the ballot. What you don't know can't hurt you, eh?

Billericay huh! Neal Asher comes from there.:D

(I am not sure how I feel about BNP members being banned from police and prison service. On the one hand, it makes perfect sense. On the other, would the same rule apply to Communists, Anarchists, etc.?)

No, because it's perfectly possible to be a communist without believing that non-communists do not deserve to live in the same country as you.

Billericay huh! Neal Asher comes from there.:D
So is Lee Evans!

Not all members of the BNP are racist skinheads anymore. Read there leaflets they post around and a lot of the content is what normally people are talking about in Pubs and Clubs around the country. At one time aye, it was all racism and beating up blackies but now people are turning to them as the two mains parties get ever more similar.

Well doesn't this show why the list should not have been released?

It was released against the law, waddyagonnado?

Not all members of the BNP are racist skinheads anymore. Read there leaflets they post around and a lot of the content is what normally people are talking about in Pubs and Clubs around the country. At one time aye, it was all racism and beating up blackies but now people are turning to them as the two mains parties get ever more similar.

Read their constitution and then come back and tell me that members aren't racists

Not all members of the BNP are racist skinheads anymore. Read there leaflets they post around and a lot of the content is what normally people are talking about in Pubs and Clubs around the country. At one time aye, it was all racism and beating up blackies but now people are turning to them as the two mains parties get ever more similar.

Hardly, they've just managed to dress their racism and hate up in a cheap suit to give it a veneer of respectability. The fact that they still don't allow non-white members should speak volumes that they've hardly changed. They are still about exploiting people's fears and insecurities and turning those into hate of those who are different from them.

Edit: or what Sirmomo1 said

Read their constitution and then come back and tell me that members aren't racists

Damn beat me to it.

They're scum so I don't particularly care about this list being released.

Not all members of the BNP are racist skinheads anymore. Read there leaflets they post around and a lot of the content is what normally people are talking about in Pubs and Clubs around the country. At one time aye, it was all racism and beating up blackies but now people are turning to them as the two mains parties get ever more similar.

Can't say that I am surprised that you are trying to claim this.

Read their constitution and then come back and tell me that members aren't racists

Just to expand on this, I knew BNP were racist, but I never actually read their racist tripe until you mentioned it. Appalling, really. From Section 2, 1:

The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race

So only white people (of the white Race, with a capital R) can be members of the party.

Then in Section 1, Political Objectives:

The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples.

Then they just completely forget that they're trying to claim they're not racist.

It is therefore committed
to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by
legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the
British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.

Kick all the non-white people out! Ugh.

Fuck the BNP and fuck their embarassment. They should be ashamed that their political ideology is fucking racist fascism.

It is wrong when a members of a political group that does not advocated violence suffer from non-political punishments for their membership (which is the whole point of this membership outing, given the leftist leaning of most European elites). If you don't like the BNP, campaign against them and make sure they lose elections and ballot initiatives, not their jobs.

Off the top of my head it might not just be the BNP. The UK is pretty firm on police officers being involved in politics, and is strongly against such a thing. I can't find/remember the exact law governing it but there are certain strong limitations on such a thing.

If you want more evidence about them, take a gander at their leader Nick Griffin, he goes in for that holocaust denying lark (although according to the BNP digging up quotes from 10 years ago is 'pathetic')

Off the top of my head it might not just be the BNP. The UK is pretty firm on police officers being involved in politics, and is strongly against such a thing. I can't find/remember the exact law governing it but there are certain strong limitations on such a thing.

If you want more evidence about them, take a gander at their leader Nick Griffin, he goes in for that holocaust denying lark (although according to the BNP digging up quotes from 10 years ago is 'pathetic')

According to the BNP, they're not a racist party (http://bnp.org.uk/2007/12/is-the-bnp-racist/) because news services like The Jewish Telegraph (http://www.jewishtelegraph.com/) exist!

I'm not making that up. Apparently a Jewish run news website means that a political party bent on kicking all non-whites out of the country is not racist. How that works I don't know... it's sort of like, 'Hitler wasn't racist, because my Uncle Fred enjoyed peanut butter.' When in fact Uncle Fred didn't even like peanut butter.

According to the BNP, they're not a racist party (http://bnp.org.uk/2007/12/is-the-bnp-racist/) because news services like The Jewish Telegraph (http://www.jewishtelegraph.com/) exist!

I'm not making that up. Apparently a Jewish run news website means that a political party bent on kicking all non-whites out of the country is not racist. How that works I don't know... it's sort of like, 'Hitler wasn't racist, because my Uncle Fred enjoyed peanut butter.'

More like "I'm not racist, because we have black entertainers!"

Not all members of the BNP are racist skinheads anymore. Read there leaflets they post around and a lot of the content is what normally people are talking about in Pubs and Clubs around the country. At one time aye, it was all racism and beating up blackies but now people are turning to them as the two mains parties get ever more similar.
I've never told anybody that "THEY STEAL YOUR CLOTHES" while pissed in Leadmill. And yes, that is a direct quotation from the 'literature' they shoved through my door this year.

They will not fool me.

It was released against the law, waddyagonnadowhitey?

Just sit there? Of course not. You, are going to join with us. The members of the American, Socialist, White peoples party. An organisation of decent, law abiding white folk. Just like you.

It shows the BNP to be hypocritical in using a law they campaing to get rid of, but then we all knew that anyway.
I get your point, and I do agree with you, it was out of order really, but you know I'm still glad.

How? It is the law of the country and if it was broken the perpetrators should be charged for breaking it, and the BNP should be allowed to use laws even if they do disagree with them. It would be like me being hypocritical for abiding by the speed limit and thinking other people should be charged when they break the limit even though I disagree with them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7740817.stm
This is one person who may well be out of a job.

A lot of people are joining the BNP not because of racial hatred, but because of frustration with the three main parties on issues such as the euro and immigration. People have the feeling that it is not 'politically correct' to be nationalistic or patriotic, this pisses people off and in retaliation they join the BNP. If the main parties would get there act together and actually do something then perhaps people would leave the BNP and return to the mainstream once again.

The BNP is a horrible thing and people know that, but not all there members or voters agree with all there policies, they are simply frustrated. Yes, there are still a lot of hardcore racists in the BNP but not all BNP members are hardcore racists.

Anyway, why don’t the far left parties get the same treatment as the BNP? How can a policeman who is a diehard commie protect and serve the owner of a large business for example.

BNP members list published (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7736794.stm)

It seems that someone has published a list of 10,000 members of everyone's favourite far-right muslim bashers, the British National Party.

Unfortunately, it has become apparent that many of its members have not actually told everyone what they think about people of different races and now face some embarassment over it. Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?

Unlike the UK, we have freedom of speech and association over here. The government can't make it a condition of employment that you belong or not belong to any particular party as long as that party does not advocate the forcible overthrow of the government.

We're used to telling people what we believe, except in Hollywood, where in the 1950s being to the left meant losing your career, and now when being to the right means losing your career. Outside of Hollywood, we're all free to differ and belong to different parties.

Not all members of the BNP are racist skinheads anymore. Read there leaflets they post around and a lot of the content is what normally people are talking about in Pubs and Clubs around the country. At one time aye, it was all racism and beating up blackies but now people are turning to them as the two mains parties get ever more similar.
It's racist propaganda which mixes half-truths with genuine lies, and the kind of morons who vote BNP get suckered in by it because it's easier to blame foreigners than themselves being too stupid to get a decent job.

A lot of people are joining the BNP not because of racial hatred, but because of frustration with the three main parties on issues such as the euro and immigration.
You don't have the euro. Stop complaining. Although if I were you I'd be worried because the pound has collapsed recently.

Immigration? Nothing wrong with that.


The BNP is a horrible thing and people know that, but not all there members or voters agree with all there policies, they are simply frustrated. Yes, there are still a lot of hardcore racists in the BNP but not all BNP members are hardcore racists.
Are you a member? (Don't know if this came up earlier, don't intend reading the entire thread)

Anyway, why don’t the far left parties get the same treatment as the BNP? How can a policeman who is a diehard commie protect and serve the owner of a large business for example.

I'm pretty sure any political party that espouses ideals of inequality, is not allowed have it's members in the police service.

A lot of people are joining the BNP not because of racial hatred, but because of frustration with the three main parties on issues such as the euro and immigration. People have the feeling that it is not 'politically correct' to be nationalistic or patriotic, this pisses people off and in retaliation they join the BNP. If the main parties would get there act together and actually do something then perhaps people would leave the BNP and return to the mainstream once again.
I would much rather have the country controlled by Gordon Brown or David Cameron than a neo-Nazi.
The BNP is a horrible thing and people know that, but not all there members or voters agree with all there policies, they are simply frustrated. Yes, there are still a lot of hardcore racists in the BNP but not all BNP members are hardcore racists.
I honestly do not care about your excuses. If I had the power to do so, I would simply ban the BNP for being the shit on the shoe of the UK in general.
Anyway, why don’t the far left parties get the same treatment as the BNP?
Find me a far-left party which wants to stop any kind of relationships between white people and THE OTHER ONES WHO ARE BAD.
How can a policeman who is a diehard commie protect and serve the owner of a large business for example.
By being slightly professional - although I'd agree that political party membership ought to be banned in the armed forces, police etc.

Unlike the UK, we have freedom of speech and association over here.
Uhu... this isn't a freedom of speech issue. This is a "you are a danger to society as it stands in general" issue.

Uhu... this isn't a freedom of speech issue. This is a "you are a danger to society as it stands in general" issue.

Maybe you need to explain the BNP then. Do they advocate the forcible overthrow of the government?

The government can't make it a condition of employment that you belong or not belong to any particular party as long as that party does not advocate the forcible overthrow of the government.


Can registered members of the Communist Party join the United States Armed Forces as a matter of interest?
/genuine question

Maybe you need to explain the BNP then.
Incredible racists whose party platform is to kick out any non-white people in the country and duck out of the EU etc.

That would result in literally millions of people being kicked out, and billions lost every year from EU trading. Which I would certainly see as "extremely treasonous".

Can registered members of the Communist Party join the United States Armed Forces as a matter of interest?
/genuine question

No. As I pointed out in my first post in the thread, if your party advocates the forcible overthrow of the government (actually, now they ask if you belong to any organization, not just a party, so your religion may be applicable) you can't be a government employee.

Of course, if you did belong to such an organization, I believe that a lie would serve as an answer.

They usually don't find out the real answer until they do a security clearance investigation.

A lot of people are joining the BNP not because of racial hatred, but because of frustration with the three main parties on issues such as the euro and immigration.

...
The BNP is a horrible thing and people know that, but not all there members or voters agree with all there policies, they are simply frustrated. Yes, there are still a lot of hardcore racists in the BNP but not all BNP members are hardcore racists.

So what? Not everyone who joined the Nazi party was an anti-Semite. They were still Nazis whatever their reasons. In the BNP's case, they are still a group of racist, irrational, hateful thugs, whatever their reasons for joining.

Anyway, why don’t the far left parties get the same treatment as the BNP? How can a policeman who is a diehard commie protect and serve the owner of a large business for example.

Are there diehard communists in Britain in the same numbers of BNP membereship?

Incredible racists whose party platform is to kick out any non-white people in the country and duck out of the EU etc.

That would result in literally millions of people being kicked out, and billions lost every year from EU trading. Which I would certainly see as "extremely treasonous".

It sounds merely "incredibly stupid" and "incredibly unlikely" to me.

It doesn't fit the definition of treason here in the US.

Here, we have lots of idiots (the two main parties aren't enough to hold all of them, so some spill over).

Our Green Party is the laughingstock party (unlike remotely credible Green Parties in other countries). Ron Paul has his idiot adherents.

No. As I pointed out in my first post in the thread, if your party advocates the forcible overthrow of the government (actually, now they ask if you belong to any organization, not just a party, so your religion may be applicable) you can't be a government employee.


The CPUSA doesn't advocate the forcible overthrow of the government, as far as my reading goes.

/hates looking at their website but will struggle on...

The CPUSA doesn't advocate the forcible overthrow of the government, as far as my reading goes.

/hates looking at their website but will struggle on...

It's in the ideology. Revolution and all that.

It sounds merely "incredibly stupid" and "incredibly unlikely" to me.

It doesn't fit the definition of treason here in the US.
Aye well as you pointed out, our countries are rather different.

Aye well as you pointed out, our countries are rather different.

Speaking strictly of the UK, I don't believe that it's possible that the BNP would ever win strongly enough to control the UK government.

And if they did, they would find the ties to the EU painfully strong to break. Painful enough that they would be out on their asses in short order.

Speaking strictly of the UK, I don't believe that it's possible that the BNP would ever win strongly enough to control the UK government.

And if they did, they would find the ties to the EU painfully strong to break. Painful enough that they would be out on their asses in short order.
The Queen would just dissolve parliament and tell everyone to stop being so stupid tbqh.

It's in the ideology. Revolution and all that.

You can have a revolution without espousing violence. (Georgia, Ukraine, Czech Rep.)

Bottom line: The US government won't allow you to join the military because of your political beliefs.

With the BNP, it has to do with serving the community or society at large, while espousing ideals of inequality.

Actually, Hotwife is incorrect. Membership in the CPUSA does NOT disqualify you from government service.

It did once, but the courts found that an unconstitutonal restriction.

I served with a member.

A lot of people are joining the BNP not because of racial hatred, but because of frustration with the three main parties on issues such as the euro and immigration.

Presumably the ones too stupid to realise they could join the UK Independence Party instead.

People have the feeling that it is not 'politically correct' to be nationalistic or patriotic, this pisses people off and in retaliation they join the BNP. If the main parties would get there act together and actually do something then perhaps people would leave the BNP and return to the mainstream once again.

The BNP is a horrible thing and people know that, but not all there members or voters agree with all there policies, they are simply frustrated. Yes, there are still a lot of hardcore racists in the BNP but not all BNP members are hardcore racists.

Anyway, why don’t the far left parties get the same treatment as the BNP? How can a policeman who is a diehard commie protect and serve the owner of a large business for example.

How patriotic is it to support a party espousing Nazi ideas when a lot of people died fighting for this country against the Nazis?

director of an IT company; a computer manufacturer, a web designer, a ballerina, a church minister...

Do these sound like racist thugs to you, no, just normal people who are discontent with the current three major parties. I don’t like the BNP but you cannot tar all its members with the same brush. Or are you all so far up your own arses to realise that generalizing a group of people and assuming they are all nasty, racist, skinheads is plain stupid, same as the BNP assuming all foreigners are lazy for example.

Not all people are as well politically informed as many of us here, they tick the box or sign the paper out of dissatisfaction and a vague idea of what the BNP stand for.

Well if you still don’t agree, I’ll just take solace that the journalist's and politician’s on Question Time this Thursday night said the exact same thing. I am not just plucking these things out of my imagination.

director of an IT company; a computer manufacturer, a web designer, a ballerina, a church minister...

Do these sound like racist thugs to you, no, just normal people who are discontent with the current three major parties. I don’t like the BNP but you cannot tar all its members with the same brush. Or are you all so far up your own arses to realise that generalizing a group of people and assuming they are all nasty, racist, skinheads is plain stupid, same as the BNP assuming all foreigners are lazy for example.

Not all people are as well politically informed as many of us here, they tick the box or sign the paper out of dissatisfaction and a vague idea of what the BNP stand for.

Well if you still don’t agree, I’ll just take solace that the journalist's and politician’s on Question Time this Thursday night said the exact same thing. I am not just plucking these things out of my imagination.

And yet they join a party whose charter explicitly states the goal of racially purifying Britain by driving out all minorities and foreigners from English soil. If they know what's in the fine print and they join anyways, they're racist by association.

Actually, Hotwife is incorrect. Membership in the CPUSA does NOT disqualify you from government service.

It did once, but the courts found that an unconstitutonal restriction.

I served with a member.

I figured as much. Thanks for the clarification.

director of an IT company; a computer manufacturer, a web designer, a ballerina, a church minister...

Do these sound like racist thugs to you,
Since when does social status or job title not mean you can be a racist thug?

I figured as much. Thanks for the clarification.



It was a restriction when I served, 1987-1991.

Does it not speak volumes about a person when even they consider they're own political beliefs to be so extreme they can't admit them to friends and co-workers? Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?


A person who strongly holds to their beliefs, even to extremes, does not have to feel uncomfortable, I feel that there are many who just know when to show some discretion and not make their beliefs known to others

I am a loyal National Socialist, and there are individuals of various races who know this, even though others of their races would have problems with knowing this

It was a restriction when I served, 1987-1991.

Well I did assume it wasn't allowed at some stage.

"I figured as much" was relating to the 'unconstitutional restriction' ruling.

director of an IT company; a computer manufacturer, a web designer, a ballerina, a church minister...

Do these sound like racist thugs to you, no,just normal people who are discontent with the current three major parties.
I can't judge if they're thugs based on their occupations, but racists? If they're in the BNP then they're either racist or ignorant.
I don’t like the BNP but you cannot tar all its members with the same brush. Or are you all so far up your own arses to realise that generalizing a group of people and assuming they are all nasty, racist, skinheads is plain stupid, same as the BNP assuming all foreigners are lazy for example.
I added that "or ignorant" for a reason. I'm sure there are some members of the BNP who haven't actually read the party's constitution.

Not all people are as well politically informed as many of us here, they tick the box or sign the paper out of dissatisfaction and a vague idea of what the BNP stand for.
Voting BNP won't get you on their membership lists. They'd have to be politically aware to some degree to even bother joining any party.

I don’t like the BNP but you cannot tar all its members with the same brush.

I am painting them all with the BNP Brush. This is the same brush they paint themselves with, by becoming BNP members. It just happens that the BNP Brush is racist, fascist bullshit.

Or are you all so far up your own arses to realise that generalizing a group of people

The BNP effectively has "kick out all the darkies, White Man is God" written on their own constitution at their own website. The only generalization I'm making is that BNP members have joined the BNP, and that the BNP is racist, thuggish, and fascist.

and assuming they are all nasty, racist, skinheads is plain stupid, same as the BNP assuming all foreigners are lazy for example.

I never said they are all individually nasty and racist. But they are all collectively so. Nasty racism is written into the organization's foundation.

driving out all minorities and foreigners from English soil.

They don't quite say that. Some minorities can stay, especially other native islanders, i.e. Welsh, Scots etc.

They don't quite say that. Some minorities can stay, especially other native islanders, i.e. Welsh, Scots etc.

Isn't that generally covered under "White British"?

Isn't that generally covered under "White British"?

But it's different to being English, also third and further generation people can stay as far as I know.

I am a loyal National Socialist

We all knew this already, you didnt have to tell us.

btw, iirc while the BNP is 'far right' on immigration etc, on many issues they are in fact a (in British political terms) quite far left.

I know that all British policeman are banned from being active in politics. I think actual membership is only banned to certain racist groups on the grounds that it would influence their work with minorities.

The BNP has had a history of violence but that was mostly a while back and they claim to have eradicated it.

...No. Just...no. Just when I thought there was hope!

All hope shall perish! It's how this world of whores works. Mind you, not all is lost. You entertained me for a few seconds, that's worth something.

Unlike the UK, we have freedom of speech and association over here. The government can't make it a condition of employment that you belong or not belong to any particular party as long as that party does not advocate the forcible overthrow of the government.


Uhu... this isn't a freedom of speech issue. This is a "you are a danger to society as it stands in general" issue.

Maybe you need to explain the BNP then. Do they advocate the forcible overthrow of the government?

Incredible racists whose party platform is to kick out any non-white people in the country and duck out of the EU etc.

That would result in literally millions of people being kicked out, and billions lost every year from EU trading. Which I would certainly see as "extremely treasonous".

It sounds merely "incredibly stupid" and "incredibly unlikely" to me.

It doesn't fit the definition of treason here in the US.

Here, we have lots of idiots (the two main parties aren't enough to hold all of them, so some spill over).

Our Green Party is the laughingstock party (unlike remotely credible Green Parties in other countries). Ron Paul has his idiot adherents.

Essentially this discussion follows the concerns I raised earlier about the freedom of association rights of even BNP members. They are racist scum, but they still have rights.

Granted a U.S. perspective is both biased and not as well-informed, but have yet to see a reason why the BNP should be denied freedom of association other than disagreement with their views and their generally scumminess.

EDIT: Upon reflection, many of the opinions in this thread remind me of a passage from "A Man For All Seasons" by Robert Bolt: The hero, Sir Thomas More, a devout Catholic and leading citizen, has refused to bless the annulment of the king's first marriage. King Henry, hoping to get even has sent a spy to More's household.

Recognizing him for what he is, More's daughter cries: "He's a spy. Arrest him, Father."

More answers: "There's no law against that."

But his son-in-law interjects: "There is God's law."

More replies: "Then God can arrest him."

Meanwhile, More's daughter is getting more and more exasperated as it becomes clear that the spy will be allowed to escape. "While you talk, he's gone," she complains.

"And go he should if he were the Devil himself," says More, "until he broke the law."

Sarcastically, his son-in-law inquires: "So now you'd give the Devil the benefit of law?"

"What would you do?" More asks him. "Cut down a great road through the law to get at the Devil?"

"Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that," his son-in-law replies.

"Oh?" More said, "and when the last law was down, and the Devil turned around on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws -- man's laws, not God's -- and if you cut them down do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

Nice Extract Cat-Tribe.

I think that the BNP "leak" may have been a publicity stunt....though the membership may be alarmed to have been "outed".
They got much more publicity from this than they would otherwise.

btw, iirc while the BNP is 'far right' on immigration etc, on many issues they are in fact a (in British political terms) quite far left.

I know that all British policeman are banned from being active in politics. I think actual membership is only banned to certain racist groups on the grounds that it would influence their work with minorities.

The BNP has had a history of violence but that was mostly a while back and they claim to have eradicated it.

Do they ban muslims too since it may interfere when they are working with non muslims, women, gays, etc?

-snip-

Does anyone here feel so uncomfortable in their own political stance that they wouldn't even tell the people they associate with every day?

I'm a moderately conservative Republican and am quite proud.

EDIT: Upon reflection, many of the opinions in this thread remind me of a passage from "A Man For All Seasons" by Robert Bolt: The hero, Sir Thomas More, a devout Catholic and leading citizen, has refused to bless the annulment of the king's first marriage. King Henry, hoping to get even has sent a spy to More's household.

Recognizing him for what he is, More's daughter cries: "He's a spy. Arrest him, Father."

More answers: "There's no law against that."

But his son-in-law interjects: "There is God's law."

More replies: "Then God can arrest him."

Meanwhile, More's daughter is getting more and more exasperated as it becomes clear that the spy will be allowed to escape. "While you talk, he's gone," she complains.

"And go he should if he were the Devil himself," says More, "until he broke the law."

Sarcastically, his son-in-law inquires: "So now you'd give the Devil the benefit of law?"

"What would you do?" More asks him. "Cut down a great road through the law to get at the Devil?"

"Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that," his son-in-law replies.

"Oh?" More said, "and when the last law was down, and the Devil turned around on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws -- man's laws, not God's -- and if you cut them down do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

Why have I never heard that quote before.

It is the most pure form of awesome-sauce.