NationStates Jolt Archive


Cheney, Gonzales indicted

Daistallia 2104
19-11-2008, 02:47
McALLEN, Texas — A South Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on state charges related to the alleged abuse of prisoners in Willacy County's federal detention centers.

The indictment, which had not yet been signed by the presiding judge, was one of seven released Tuesday in a county that has been a source of bizarre legal and political battles in recent years. Another of the indictments named a state senator on charges of profiting from his position.

Willacy County District Attorney Juan Angel Guerra himself had been under indictment for more than a year and half before a judge dismissed the indictments last month. This flurry of charges came in the twilight of Guerra's tenure, which ends this year after nearly two decades in office. He lost convincingly in a Democratic primary in March.

Cheney's indictment on a charge of engaging in an organized criminal activity criticizes the vice president's investment in the Vanguard Group, which holds interests in the private prison companies running the federal detention centers. It accuses Cheney of a conflict of interest and "at least misdemeanor assaults" on detainees because of his link to the prison companies.

Megan Mitchell, a spokeswoman for Cheney, declined to comment on Tuesday, saying that the vice president had not yet received a copy of the indictment.

The indictment accuses Gonzales of using his position while in office to stop an investigation in 2006 into abuses at one of the privately-run prisons.

Gonzalez's attorney, George Terwilliger III, said in a written statement, "This is obviously a bogus charge on its face, as any good prosecutor can recognize. Hopefully, competent Texas authorities will take steps to reign in this abuse of the criminal justice system."

Willacy County has become a prison hub with county, state and federal lockups. Guerra has gone after the prison-politician nexus before, extracting guilty pleas from three former Willacy and Webb county commissioners after investigating bribery related to federal prison contacts.

Another indictment released Tuesday accuses state Sen. Eddie Lucio Jr. of profiting from his public office by accepting honoraria from prison management companies. Guerra announced his intention to investigate Lucio's prison consulting early last year.

Lucio's attorney, Michael Cowen, released a scathing statement accusing Guerra of settling political scores in his final weeks in office.

"Senator Lucio is completely innocent and has done nothing wrong," Cowen said, adding that he would file a motion to quash the indictment this week.

Last month, a Willacy County grand jury indicted The GEO Group, a Florida private prison company, on a murder charge in the death of a prisoner days before his release. The three-count indictment alleged The GEO Group allowed other inmates to beat Gregorio de la Rosa Jr. to death with padlocks stuffed into socks. The death happened in 2001 at the Raymondville facility, just four days before de la Rosa's scheduled release.

In 2006, a jury ordered the company to pay de la Rosa's family $47.5 million in a civil judgment. The Cheney-Gonzalez indictment makes reference to the de la Rosa case.

None of the indictments released Tuesday had been signed by Presiding Judge Manuel Banales of the Fifth Administrative Judicial Region.

A second batch of indictments targeted public officials connected to Guerra's own legal battles.

Willacy County Clerk Gilbert Lozano, District judges Janet Leal and Migdalia Lopez, and special prosecutors Mervyn Mosbacker Jr. — a former U.S. attorney — and Gustavo Garza — a long-time political opponent of Guerra — were all indicted on charges of official abuse of official capacity and official oppression.

Garza, the only one who could be immediately reached Tuesday, called it a sad state of affairs.

"I feel sorry for all of the good people this unprofessional prosecutor has maligned," Garza said. "I'm not at all concerned about the accusations he has trumped up."

Banales dismissed indictments against Guerra last month that charged him with extorting money from a bail bond company and using his office for personal business. An appeals court had earlier ruled that Garza was improperly appointed as special prosecutor to investigate Guerra.

After Guerra's office was raided as part of the investigation early last year, he camped outside the courthouse in a borrowed camper with a horse, three goats and a rooster. He threatened to dismiss hundreds of cases because he believed local law enforcement had aided the investigation against him.

On Tuesday, Guerra said the indictments speak for themselves. He said the prison-related charges are a national issue and experts from across the country testified to the grand jury. Asked about the indictments against local players in the justice system who had pursued him, Guerra said, "the grand jury is the one that made those decisions, not me."

The indictments were first reported by KRGV-TV.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6119696.html

Well, it may not be the prisoner abuse many thought they'd get done up for (and still might), looks like some justice might be done...
Muravyets
19-11-2008, 02:49
I doubt it will go anywhere, but damn, I hope it does. *engages in fantasy of Cheney and Gonzalez rotting in one of their own prisons* :D
Wilgrove
19-11-2008, 02:55
I doubt it will go anywhere, but damn, I hope it does. *engages in fantasy of Cheney and Gonzalez rotting in one of their own prisons* :D

If it does go anywhere, they'll just get a slap on the wrist.
Muravyets
19-11-2008, 03:03
If it does go anywhere, they'll just get a slap on the wrist.
That is what I meant by "not going anywhere."
Zainzibar Land
19-11-2008, 03:09
True justice is cheney getting shot in the face, or balls
either is good
Trotskylvania
19-11-2008, 03:12
Well, here's hoping for some justice
The Lone Alliance
19-11-2008, 03:25
True justice is cheney getting shot in the face, or balls
either is good
No having him give all his money to the govenment would be real justice... And more painful for him.
Cooptive Democracy
19-11-2008, 03:27
Guerra seems a bit loopy to me. I'm kinda sad that these aren't more severe charges, but se la vie, I guess.
Gauntleted Fist
19-11-2008, 03:38
I'm hoping for just a little justice in the world. Is that too much to ask? :p
Whereyouthinkyougoing
19-11-2008, 03:38
Cheney's indictment on a charge of engaging in an organized criminal activity criticizes the vice president's investment in the Vanguard Group, which holds interests in the private prison companies running the federal detention centers. It accuses Cheney of a conflict of interest and "at least misdemeanor assaults" on detainees because of his link to the prison companies.
Wut? That's a big ball of crazy.
Wilgrove
19-11-2008, 03:42
i'm hoping for just a little justice in the world. Is that too much to ask? :p

request denied!
Callisdrun
19-11-2008, 04:16
I would have waited until he'd left office to charge him.
Lunatic Goofballs
19-11-2008, 04:19
I suspect they may be unlawful enemy combatants. Send em to Gitmo!
Gauntleted Fist
19-11-2008, 04:21
request denied!Hax! :eek:
Tygereyes
19-11-2008, 04:26
Bush will just pardon them of any wrong doing. *sighs*
Knights of Liberty
19-11-2008, 04:39
Bush will just pardon them of any wrong doing. *sighs*

No, they'll just ignore it and not go into that part of Texas after they leave office.


A few towns and districts have done similar things (indicted the President/Cheney). Nothing will happen.
Neo Art
19-11-2008, 04:45
Bush will just pardon them of any wrong doing. *sighs*

He won't. He can't.
Blouman Empire
19-11-2008, 04:53
He won't. He can't.

He can't? I thought Presidents were able to pardon people from punishment of crime?

Or is it because it is a state law rather than a federal law he is breaking that Bush can't pardon him?
Gauntleted Fist
19-11-2008, 04:54
He won't. He can't. If he chooses to disregard the mess that it would make... The Constitution simply says ""The President ... shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." Hm, he might not be able to, depending upon the interpretation.
Knights of Liberty
19-11-2008, 04:55
Uh, actually, he can. If he chooses to disregard the mess that it would make.

1. Hed have to do it before he left office.
2. I dont think the President can pardon officials convicted on the state/county level.
Stoklomolvi
19-11-2008, 04:56
HA! HAHA! I laugh at you, Cheney, Gonzales indicted!
Neo Art
19-11-2008, 04:57
Or is it because it is a state law rather than a federal law he is breaking that Bush can't pardon him?

bingo.
Blouman Empire
19-11-2008, 04:59
bingo.

Hey I know about US law and I don't even know what I'm talking about, lol.

Logical thinking FTW.
Gauntleted Fist
19-11-2008, 05:01
bingo.Could he not simply ask the governor to pardon them both? Yes, I know it's not the same thing.

1. Hed have to do it before he left office.
2. I dont think the President can pardon officials convicted on the state/county level.Right, I caught that after I posted. I read too much into the 'territories' part.
Knights of Liberty
19-11-2008, 05:01
Could he not simply ask the governor to pardon them both?


Ask being the key word there;)
Neo Art
19-11-2008, 05:04
Could he not simply ask the governor to pardon them both?

Can he ask? Well of course he can ask, anyone can ask. Whether he will grant it or not is an entirely separate question, that's even if the governor of Texas has that power.
Gauntleted Fist
19-11-2008, 05:10
Ask being the key word there;)Right.

Can he ask? Well of course he can ask, anyone can ask. Whether he will grant it or not is an entirely separate question, that's even if the governor of Texas has that power.In all criminal cases, except treason and impeachment, the Governor shall have power, after conviction, on the written signed recommendation and advice of the Board of Pardons and Paroles, or a majority thereof, to grant reprieves and commutations of punishments and pardons.
He has the power after the board recommends it to him. I don't think the chance is very realistic of the board OK'ing the power in this case, though.
Knights of Liberty
19-11-2008, 05:11
Right.


He has the power after the board recommends it to him. I don't think the chance is very realistic of the board OK'ing the power in this case, though.



Remember that every state Constitution is different. Texas might not have that bit in there.
Gauntleted Fist
19-11-2008, 05:16
Remember that every state Constitution is different. Texas might not have that bit in there.That's directly quoted from the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure article 48.01. (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000048.00.htm#48.01.00)
Knights of Liberty
19-11-2008, 05:17
That's directly quoted from the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure article 48.01. (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000048.00.htm#48.01.00)

Fair enough.
The Romulan Republic
19-11-2008, 05:51
Bush will just pardon them of any wrong doing. *sighs*

Exactly. A part of me has foolishly hoped that the democrats have been playing nice and kept charges off the table while Bush was still in so he wouldn't use the pardon.

Question: can he pardon before their is a conviction? This case should still be ongoing when Inauguration Day roles around.
Gauntleted Fist
19-11-2008, 05:53
Question: can he pardon before their is a conviction? This case should still be ongoing when Inauguration Day roles around.The president can pardon anyone, at any time. As long as it's for a federal offense. He can pardon them five minutes after they're indicted if he wants. Not that he would do it that quickly, necessarily.
Tygereyes
19-11-2008, 06:53
Well.... even if Bush doesn't pardon because of the Federal/State issue. I suspect that Bush will try something. He's too arogant and full of himself not to.
Sudova
19-11-2008, 08:18
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6119696.html

Well, it may not be the prisoner abuse many thought they'd get done up for (and still might), looks like some justice might be done...

depends on their guilt, how good their lawyers are (if those lawyers are republicans, they're screwed...), and how much evidence is admissible evidence and not hearsay.

Still, it will be fun watching one of the most corrupt men in D.C. go to a Texas Prison (why, oh why, couldn't it be corruption charges?) and if we get a twofer, that's even BETTER.
Intangelon
19-11-2008, 08:19
Well, I'd hate to be where they are, but dammit, I can't say I don't have a grin on my face about this.
The Romulan Republic
19-11-2008, 08:31
From what I've heard, the Governor would have to pardon them, and can only do that after getting a recommendation from the parol board.

Of course, I consider such a recommendation and pardon all but certain. Probably with some crap about Democrats holding grudges and engaging in petty political prosecutions. This is Texas after all.
greed and death
19-11-2008, 08:39
Not likely to go anyway. Hard to say conflict of interest to sense Cheney likely put all his business interest/investments in a blind trust. (normally standard procedure for elected officials.)
Vetalia
19-11-2008, 08:58
Has there ever been a President who didn't pardon his close associates? Hell, Ford, Carter, Reagan andClinton all pardoned some real bastards at the end of their terms, so that doesn't exactly set a good precedent for our mutual fiend currently in office.
South Lorenya
19-11-2008, 09:08
Bwahahahahahaha!

Sure, it's not war crimes or high treason or such, and it doesn't include Spurious George, but...

Bwahahahahahaha!
New Wallonochia
19-11-2008, 09:27
I'm hoping for just a little justice in the world. Is that too much to ask? :p

Master didn't think so (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWyOt1XMCoo)
Blue Pelicans
19-11-2008, 17:59
If they do get indicted then let's hope many others join them for war crimes e.g. Bush & Blair etc.
Tmutarakhan
19-11-2008, 20:34
The president can pardon anyone, at any time. As long as it's for a federal offense. He can pardon them five minutes after they're indicted if he wants. Not that he would do it that quickly, necessarily.He can pardon long before they're indicted if he wants (for example, blanket amnesties issued to Confederate veterans by Andrew Johnson, to Vietnam draft-dodgers by Jimmy Carter).
Neo Art
19-11-2008, 20:46
He can pardon long before they're indicted if he wants (for example, blanket amnesties issued to Confederate veterans by Andrew Johnson, to Vietnam draft-dodgers by Jimmy Carter).

Ford to Nixon.
Tmutarakhan
19-11-2008, 20:48
Ford to Nixon.
Indeed, an even clearer example. The one thing is that the President can't pardon you in advance for crimes you haven't committed yet, like a James Bond "License to Kill".
Hotwife
24-11-2008, 19:47
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6119696.html

Well, it may not be the prisoner abuse many thought they'd get done up for (and still might), looks like some justice might be done...

Here's a video of the lawyer.

http://www.youtube.com/v/jOE9Pc40h1Q&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1

It's quite apparent that he's a complete loon. Check out the other attorneys rolling their eyes at him at the end.
Frisbeeteria
02-12-2008, 22:55
Texas judge dismisses Cheney, Gonzales charges (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/12/02/MN0514FPHH.DTL)

From the comments:
As a resident of Texas we have heard of this DA, too many times. He is an absolute swing from the rafters loon. That is the reason he was defeated, big time, in the primary from someone in his own party. He was ineffective and I believe in serious need of help with medication included. The charges that he brought were ludicrous at best. As usual in the SF Chron you didn't get the whole story. If you read the Banales dismissed the charges and then admonished the prosecutor, thereby reading between the lines that the charges themselves were baseless and frivolous. The fact that two jurors were incorrectly seated was but one reason for the dismissal.
Hotwife
02-12-2008, 22:58
Texas judge dismisses Cheney, Gonzales charges (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/12/02/MN0514FPHH.DTL)

From the comments:

I take it you saw the video of the lawyer in question that I posted.

I find it hilarious that some people here took him seriously.
greed and death
02-12-2008, 22:58
Texas judge dismisses Cheney, Gonzales charges (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/12/02/MN0514FPHH.DTL)

From the comments:

did i not call it ??? Did i not tell people???
Hotwife
02-12-2008, 22:58
did i not call it ??? Did i not tell people???

Yes, but they don't want to go back and watch the video I posted, because they'll have to cringe.
greed and death
02-12-2008, 23:06
Yes, but they don't want to go back and watch the video I posted, because they'll have to cringe.

well i am from Texas so i already knew he was crazy. didn't realize their was a youtube of him lol. what you didn't see is the judge normally appeases him unless it is something he risk losing his job for allowing (such as letting him prosecute in a case he is a the victim).
Hotwife
02-12-2008, 23:11
well i am from Texas so i already knew he was crazy. didn't realize their was a youtube of him lol. what you didn't see is the judge normally appeases him unless it is something he risk losing his job for allowing (such as letting him prosecute in a case he is a the victim).

http://www.youtube.com/v/jOE9Pc40h1Q&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1

Obviously, the person so admired by the Bush-haters here is a complete loon.
Enormous Gentiles
02-12-2008, 23:16
http://www.youtube.com/v/jOE9Pc40h1Q&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1

Obviously, the person so admired by the Bush-haters here is a complete loon.

"We're sorry, but this video is no longer available."
greed and death
02-12-2008, 23:20
"We're sorry, but this video is no longer available."

video works fine for me
Enormous Gentiles
02-12-2008, 23:34
video works fine for me

Yeah, it's working now.
greed and death
02-12-2008, 23:52
Yeah, it's working now.

youtube has been strange lately
FreeSatania
03-12-2008, 00:18
I don't see why Cheney not going to jail is good news but hey whatever floats your boat.
greed and death
03-12-2008, 00:23
I don't see why Cheney not going to jail is good news but hey whatever floats your boat.

sending someone to jail for an illegitimate reason makes them a martyr.

Conflict of interest is prevented by a blind trust.

You want to put someone in jail put them in jail for a legitimate reason.
New Mitanni
03-12-2008, 00:30
January 19, 2009: Cheney, Gonzalez Pardoned by President Bush.


In your faces, Bush haters :p