NationStates Jolt Archive

well my apartment is next to a sort of mega church. I say sort of because it is a mega church for the small town i am in. And they are having a revival country music is blaring with the occasional speech about Jeeeeesssssuuusss.
they are keeping me awake. I called the non emergency number for the police and apparently they have a permit.


My question is where does the right for me to get a goods night sleep begin and the right to public demonstration begin (because of permit)

This is more of your ominious resentment toward religion. How come no one ever posts about how their rights are being impeded by motorists. Cars produce noise and people are aloud to have them, or what about sex, suppose your neighbors love each other very much and get on every night till 1AM? They have a right to do so, any complaints there?

Now stop protesting free will, because unless those people are cultists being brainwashed by some sinister cult I will take this as disrespect for people and their ability to choose their religion.

MODEDIT: This is a threadsplit from greed and death's thread, So the christians are keeping me awake, here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=572908).

I think he's trying to get at is it's not because it's religious, it's because it's loud and disturbing his sleep, so that's why.... may I assume that...?

Given the nature of this forum I highly doubt it.

Given the nature of this forum I highly doubt it.

Ok, nevermind then. The thing I was going to say wouldn't apply here then!

Forgive us for not wanting to be part of a zombie cannibal suicide cult.

We have not yet established whether or not the group in question is a cult, what more for a zombie cannibal suicide one.

Given the nature of this forum I highly doubt it.

Youre right, we are all out to get you.


Grow up.

Okay, they worship a man who rose from the dead, AKA a zombie. They symbolically eat his flesh and drink is blood. Last time I checked, that's cannibalism in spirit. And, in this impure world of sin, the best thing a Christian can hope for is to die. Every Sunday, they pray themselves closer to their reunion with their beloved zombie. Ergo, it's a suicide cult as well.

Be that as it may there is still a fine line between choosing not to join the religion and going out of your way to single them out, criticize and even deter others from said faith even though one hasn't established whether or not they are a cult. I said it before and so has our dear friend Mr. Ross, establish that the group in question is unsafe before jumping to conclusions. I will not support any action against freedom of religion unless it is established that said freedom is being abused by what cult experts define as a cult.

It sucks real bad main streamers because for every jackass out there making like the pied piper, another nasty stain is added to the face of the usually uninvolved mainstream religion the sect masqueraded as. Do any of you know how many people hate Moslems for what the sect Al Queda is doing or hate Christianity for what David Koresh and the WBC have done?

I will not support any action against freedom of religion unless it is established that said freedom is being abused by what cult experts define as a cult.

My religion requires me to have loud parties from 8pm to 8am ever Sunday/Monday. It's not a cult, so I trust you'll have only good things to say about us when we come to your neighbourhood.

My religion requires me to have loud parties from 8pm to 8am ever Sunday/Monday. It's not a cult, so I trust you'll have only good things to say about us when we come to your neighbourhood.

I never said that I'll only say good things about non-cult religions. All I said is that I will hinder all anti-theist efforts to infringe on one's natural right to choose belief just as much as I'd try to hinder cultists from doing the same. No true cultist ever refers to their church as a cult so discerning them based on the members' opinion is the wrong move. I'll need to look further into your religion and review the memoirs of the of renowned cult experts in order to verify your claims. :wink:

I never said that I'll only say good things about non-cult religions. All I said is that I will hinder all anti-theist efforts to infringe on one's natural right to choose belief just as much as I'd try to hinder cultists from doing the same. No true cultist ever refers to their church as a cult so discerning them based on the members' opinion is the wrong move. I'll need to look further into your religion and review the memoirs of the of renowned cult experts in order to verify your claims. :wink:
Yeah?

Well obviously these are piss-poor Christians since they DON'T love their neighbor -- and are going out of their way to be annoying.

Yeah?

Well obviously these are piss-poor Christians since they DON'T love their neighbor -- and are going out of their way to be annoying.

So what if they are? This is merely hate mongering against Christianity. Once again my point was missed as though NSG's accuracy was that of a drunkard on a unicycle with a blindfold. These instances are not limited to Christians alone, all kinds of people groups and things make noise with a permit yet none of the other groups get any wrap for it. It seems only unspeakably evil or improper when a Christian does it. My point is many people make noise at night how come it is only thread worthy if teh ebil CHRISTANS did it? Seriously?

So what if they are? This is merely hate mongering against Christianity. Once again my point was missed as though NSG's accuracy was that of a drunkard on a unicycle with a blindfold. These instances are not limited to Christians alone, all kinds of people groups and things make noise with a permit yet none of the other groups get any wrap for it. It seems only unspeakably evil or improper when a Christian does it. My point is many people make noise at night how come it is only thread worthy if teh ebil CHRISTANS did it? Seriously?
What possible evidence can you present that other groups that get permits to make lots of noise late into the night do not get complaints?

Your assertion is nonsense. It just so happens that this particular instance is about a church that just happens to be Christian. I live and have lived near plenty of churches of many denominations who got permits for bands to perform for all kinds of holidays and events, yet somehow every one of them managed to wrap up the noise by a decent hour, in keeping with both local noise ordinance and with being good neighbors. So what's THIS church's problem, hm?

I never said they don't get complaints, I merely asserted that they're not posted here.
Maybe that's because most NSGers are blessed with better neighbors, including ones that happen to be churches.

So what if they are? This is merely hate mongering against Christianity. Once again my point was missed as though NSG's accuracy was that of a drunkard on a unicycle with a blindfold. These instances are not limited to Christians alone, all kinds of people groups and things make noise with a permit yet none of the other groups get any wrap for it. It seems only unspeakably evil or improper when a Christian does it. My point is many people make noise at night how come it is only thread worthy if teh ebil CHRISTANS did it? Seriously?
Oh? Well, I'm a Christian, and these folks and their 72-hr-straight noise permit is pretty selfish. Lots of hate-mongering here. And the reason it's on here is because it is so extremely ridiculous to blare music for 72 hrs straight, and because they are a church, they're getting away with it.

See?

Maybe that's because most NSGers are blessed with better neighbors, including ones that happen to be churches.

You are intentionally overlooking the nature of this forum. More often than not when Christianity is mentioned it is mentioned in a negative way.

Oh? Well, I'm a Christian, and these folks and their 72-hr-straight noise permit is pretty selfish. Lots of hate-mongering here. And the reason it's on here is because it is so extremely ridiculous to blare music for 72 hrs straight, and because they are a church, they're getting away with it.

See?

So they were in the wrong this time, so what? Look at the thread title. Sounds like it's aimed at Christianity in general. Why didn't he/she name it "A jackass church/splinter group is keeping me awake."? The title is too damn generic, it applies to Christians in general. The OP is either guilty of producing a misleading title or bigotry.

You are intentionally overlooking the nature of this forum. More often than not when Christianity is mentioned it is mentioned in a negative way.That's an inappropriate generalization. Just because it happens "most of the time" does not mean that it is happening this time, specifically. You're just saying that it is, and using the bias against Christianity that some posters on this forum have as 'proof'.

So they were in the wrong this time, so what? Look at the thread title. Sounds like it's aimed at Christianity in general. Why didn't he/she name it "A jackass church/splinter group is keeping me awake."? The title is too damn generic, it applies to Christians in general. The OP is either guilty of producing a misleading title or bigotry.Or maybe he simply wanted to draw attention to his topic with a provocative title? Is it not possible that the answer might be as simple as that?

You are intentionally overlooking the nature of this forum. More often than not when Christianity is mentioned it is mentioned in a negative way.
Oh, I'm not overlooking it at all. NSG is a forum in which there are a number of Christians with a victim complex and a number of other people who are tired of hearing about it.

Oh, I'm not overlooking it at all. NSG is a forum in which there are a number of Christians with a victim complex and a number of other people who are tired of hearing about it.

Oh really? Name some.

Oh really? Name some.
I can name one... but I won't bite the bait.

So they were in the wrong this time, so what? Look at the thread title. Sounds like it's aimed at Christianity in general. Why didn't he/she name it "A jackass church/splinter group is keeping me awake."? The title is too damn generic, it applies to Christians in general. The OP is either guilty of producing a misleading title or bigotry.

You're really looking too deep into this, as if something must absolutely be blamed for something. Seriously. I doubt the original poster meant this as something against the entirety of Christianity in general. If you can see the title, and manage to read his post, you can see that what you're saying is clearly not the case.

With that said, Kat pretty much summed up everything that I was going to say. :)

I can name one... but I won't bite the bait.

I, however, will.

Oh really? Name some.

Example Victim Complex Christian: You (see your posts in this thread)

Someone tired of hearing about it: Me.



In fact, it seems, for some reason, that almost every conservative Christian (and a few liberal ones) on this board has a victim complex to some degree or another. I guess the Conservative and Christian persecution complexes go together well.

I, however, will.



Example Victim Complex Christian: You (see your posts in this thread)

Someone tired of hearing about it: Me.



In fact, it seems, for some reason, that almost every conservative Christian (and a few liberal ones) on this board has a victim complex to some degree or another. I guess the Conservative and Christian persecution complexes go together well.

So two examples would be adequate proof that this forum is filled with them? This forum's lack of true logic amazes me, victim complex Christians here are a rarity and my posts on this thread do not make me a victim complex Christian. And furthermore what about anti-theists with victim complexes that go "oh noes those religions and their followers are oppressing me just by existing!"

So two examples would be adequate proof that this forum is filled with them? This forum's lack of true logic amazes me, victim complex Christians here are a rarity and my posts on this thread do not make me a victim complex Christian. And furthermore what about anti-theists with victim complexes that go "oh noes those religions and their followers are oppressing me just by existing!"
Now who's putting words in others' mouths? Did I say the forum was "full" of anything? No. I said there are "a number" of Christians who complain of being picked on, as well as "a number" of people who are tired of hearing them. Based on this thread, that number would be 1 of each.

"oh noes those religions and their followers are oppressing me just by existing!"

Considering no one does that...


You asked for one, I named one. Im done with this conversation. Its obvious to every third party reading this that my point stands, at least in regards to your victim complex, and thats all I can ask for.


Now why dont you either contribute to the thread or take your paranoia elsewhere?

Now who's putting words in others' mouths? Did I say the forum was "full" of anything? No. I said there are "a number" of Christians who complain of being picked on, as well as "a number" of people who are tired of hearing them. Based on this thread, that number would be 1 of each.

How can hearing one tiny single Christian rant be exhausting? Getting encumbered by a single rant is ridiculous. This either suggests an utter and extreme intolerance for the defense of Christrianity on this forum which would prove my point or an implication that there are/were multitudes of Christians playing the victim.

Considering no one does that...


You asked for one, I named one. Im done with this conversation. Its obvious to every third party reading this that my point stands, at least in regards to your victim complex, and thats all I can ask for.


Now why dont you either contribute to the thread or take your paranoia elsewhere?

So one tiny rant makes me a paranoid Christian with a victim complex? For the dull and deluded it usually takes a track record of such behavior to be able to be accused of having a victim complex, if this could be considered playing the victim, doing it once hardly gives me the complex, and secondly sticking up for the minority is usually not considered playing the victim. LOL People who jump to false conclusions about other people end up pissing tons of people off. All they'll see is a fanatic who slanders others for doing something you disapprove of.

I also asked for multitudes of examples, you failed to do that.

How can hearing one tiny single Christian rant be exhausting? Getting encumbered by a single rant is ridiculous. This either suggests an utter and extreme intolerance for the defense of Christrianity on this forum which would prove my point

I dont give a shit if you defend Christianity. When it desrves it, Ill defend it too. But what is annoying is this thread has only a passing thing to do with Christianity, and youre trying to make it the central thing.

or an implication that there are/were multitudes of Christians playing the victim.

There are many Christians on here playing the victim. There are also many Christians in real life playing the victim. No. I wont name anymore, because the vast majority of them havent posted in this forum, and Im not dragging them into it.

How can hearing one tiny single Christian rant be exhausting? Getting encumbered by a single rant is ridiculous. This either suggests an utter and extreme intolerance for the defense of Christrianity on this forum which would prove my point or an implication that there are/were multitudes of Christians playing the victim.
What are you talking about, and who do you mean to be saying it to? Because, to the extent the above makes any sense, it seems to have nothing at all to do with anything I've said here.

So one tiny rant makes me a paranoid Christian with a victim complex? LOL People who jump to false conclusions about other people end up pissing tons of people off. All they'll see is a fanatic who slanders others for doing something you disapprove of.

Considering the leaps youre making....


I also asked for multitudes of examples, you failed to do that.

Because bringing up other people who arent involved in this would be flamebaiting.

So one tiny rant makes me a paranoid Christian with a victim complex? For the dull and deluded it usually takes a track record of such behavior to be able to be accused of having a victim complex, if this could be considered playing the victim, doing it once hardly gives me the complex, and secondly sticking up for the minority is usually not considered playing the victim. LOL People who jump to false conclusions about other people end up pissing tons of people off. All they'll see is a fanatic who slanders others for doing something you disapprove of.

I also asked for multitudes of examples, you failed to do that.
As a christian reading this unbiased, I'd say your not a christian at all, as I think you've done more to add to an abysmal public view of christiananity.
I also think you'll do more to drive people away from christianity than most any other person,religion,sect,government,cult (etc..) in the history of christianity. definately more so than the OP had any designs on.
Devil in disguise? or just a disgrace to what is supposed to be a kind and forgiving religion??

Oh really? Name some.I can name one... but I won't bite the bait.


I'm not nearly as nice as Muravyets...
The first one that comes to mind is: South Lizasauria...
Also, Tucker Island comes to mind.

As a christian reading this unbiased, I'd say your not a christian at all, as I think you've done more to add to an abysmal public view of christiananity.
I also think you'll do more to drive people away from christianity than most any other person,religion,sect,government,cult (etc..) in the history of christianity. definately more so than the OP had any designs on.
Devil in disguise? or just a disgrace to what is supposed to be a kind and forgiving religion??

That is the biggest load of BS I've read here by far. How the hell can a lone anonymous man drive more people away than most any other person, religion, sect/cult and government? Those groups alone are made up of legions of dedicated people at least, what more when put together, how can one anonymous poster outdo all of them? Huh???

Next time you pretend to be a Christian in order to demonize me try a logical argument because the math and logistics do not check out.

I'm not nearly as nice as Muravyets...
The first one that comes to mind is: South Lizasauria...
Also, Tucker Island comes to mind.

Only because I mentioned it, this further proves my case that Christians with victim complexes here are a rarity since I seem to be the only one named despite the fact that my actions are being mislabeled as playing as the victim.

http://ozatheist.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/being-oppressed.jpg

http://ozatheist.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/being-oppressed.jpg

That applies to the world not this forum. :wink:

That applies to the world not this forum. :wink:

Actually it does, as you so amply demonstrate.

Actually it does, as you so amply demonstrate.

Geeze, I'm flunking math and even I can point out your mathematical errors. How does one or two posters make me the majority shouting "help I'm being oppressed?" The math doesn't check out. It applies to the world with billions of Christians across the globe, it however doesn not apply to this forum.

2 Christians +supposed victim complex =/= A moderate number of splinter group Christians +victim complex

Geeze, I'm flunking math and even I can point out your mathematical errors. How does one or two posters make me the majority shouting "help I'm being oppressed?" The math doesn't check out. It applies to the world with billions of Christians across the globe, it however doesn not apply to this forum.

2 Christians +supposed victim complex =/= A moderate number of splinter group Christians +victim complex

I told you, there are plenty more, but we're not letting you flamebait us. And if you dont stop trying, Ill go to moderation.

I told you, there are plenty more, but we're not letting you flamebait us. And if you dont stop trying, Ill go to moderation.

Alright then, give me a number rather than names. That way we can do the proper math without breaking any rules.

Alright then, give me a number rather than names. That way we can do the proper math without breaking any rules.

wait, let me make sure I understand this. YOU are asking for facts to substantiate your claims? You?

I've heard of blind leading the blind but sheesh.

wait, let me make sure I understand this. YOU are asking for facts to substantiate your claims? You?

I've heard of blind leading the blind but sheesh.

I know the facts, the question is can he back up HIS claims?

I know the number but does he?

Well, let's see, SL:

The thread topic was originally about noisy neighbors, and the broader sense of it was some groups getting preferential permission to be noisy neighbors.

YOU hijacked the thread to be about your own claims of hostility against Christians.

And now YOU are fine-tuning your hijack to make the thread be just about you.

The bottom line -- as you have so amply demonstrated -- is that the number I referred to of paranoid Christians and hostile non-Christians on NSG is very, very small. In every thread where it comes up, it is always the same few posters (including you) on both sides playing your stereotyped roles. So, frankly, your constant claims of broad anti-Christian feeling on this forum are bull. The number of posters who go out of their way to be bitches to Christians is so small that you could put them all on ignore and not even notice the loss. Why don't you try it?

Now, speaking just for myself, I am mildly interested in reading about dealing with obnoxious neighbors, but I have zero interest in reading you talking about you. So can we get back to the topic, please? Thanks.

Well, let's see, SL:

The thread topic was originally about noisy neighbors, and the broader sense of it was some groups getting preferential permission to be noisy neighbors.

YOU hijacked the thread to be about your own claims of hostility against Christians.

And now YOU are fine-tuning your hijack to make the thread be just about you.

The bottom line -- as you have so amply demonstrated -- is that the number I referred to of paranoid Christians and hostile non-Christians on NSG is very, very small. In every thread where it comes up, it is always the same few posters (including you) on both sides playing your stereotyped roles. So, frankly, your constant claims of broad anti-Christian feeling on this forum are bull. The number of posters who go out of their way to be bitches to Christians is so small that you could put them all on ignore and not even notice the loss. Why don't you try it?

Now, speaking just for myself, I am mildly interested in reading about dealing with obnoxious neighbors, but I have zero interest in reading you talking about you. So can we get back to the topic, please? Thanks.

Your third sentece is nothing but outright deciet. It was orignally about noisy neighbors, I questioned the motives of the OP, you and KOL argued with me a bit then changed the topic from my beleif that the motives of the OP were to me, I then responded. After rebutting time after time you then decided to villify me by claiming I did what you did.

Did you not notice that each time you falsely and shamefully tried to make me represent ALL the Christians of NSG and then paint THEM up as victim players that I pointed out your falsehood each time. It is clear to me now that your overall "battle plan" so to speak was to shift the discussion of my question to me and make the ridiculous claims about me representing the victim player majority then report me for YOUR threadjacking.

Did you not notice that each time you falsely and shamefully tried to make me represent ALL the Christians of NSG and then paint THEM up as victim players that I pointed out your falsehood each time. It is clear to me now that your overall "battle plan" so to speak was to shift the discussion of my question to me and make the ridiculous claims about me representing the victim player majority then report me for YOUR threadjacking.

No, you didnt pont out any falsehood. You tried to bait us into flamebaiting. Luckily we're not that stupid.

Anyway, on the topic of annoying neighbors, my neighbors last night had a party. It was pretty obnoxious. By the time I passed out drunk at around 5 AM, they were still going.

But, Im sure SL will now use his deductive brilliance to figure out that really, my problem with them was because theyre Christians. Not because they kept me up till 5 AM.

Your third sentece is nothing but outright deciet. It was orignally about noisy neighbors, I questioned the motives of the OP, you and KOL argued with me a bit then changed the topic from my beleif that the motives of the OP were to me, I then responded. After rebutting time after time you then decided to villify me by claiming I did what you did.

Did you not notice that each time you falsely and shamefully tried to make me represent ALL the Christians of NSG and then paint THEM up as victim players that I pointed out your falsehood each time. It is clear to me now that your overall "battle plan" so to speak was to shift the discussion of my question to me and make the ridiculous claims about me representing the victim player majority then report me for YOUR threadjacking.
A) You trying to hijack the thread from page one does not make it less of a hijack.

B) I have not been arguing with you. I have been telling you that you have no basis for you complaints and that you are off topic. I have not been arguing that with you.

C) Yet another attempt of yours to flamebait me fails. /Ignore.

No, you didnt pont out any falsehood. You tried to bait us into flamebaiting. Luckily we're not that stupid.

Anyway, on the topic of annoying neighbors, my neighbors last night had a party. It was pretty obnoxious. By the time I passed out drunk at around 5 AM, they were still going.

But, Im sure SL will now use his deductive brilliance to figure out that really, my problem with them was because theyre Christians. Not because they kept me up till 5 AM.

Saying that I solely represent a small group of four or five of self pitying Christians on this forum was false, saying that a circle graph based off of data ascertained from a survey of the world applies to a forum that is notorious for it's political homogeneity is false. ( assuming that it is factual and not political satire, in which case it is invalidated immidiatley since political cartoons are not valid evidence)

Now as for the actual topic, all I have to say is that whether or not the discussion is generic of all noisy neighbors or not will show us the true motivation behind this thread.

http://ozatheist.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/being-oppressed.jpg

Really, this graph shows nothing.

Ever heard of tyranny by minority? Also source for these stats?

*In before the "you have a complex"*

Really, this graph shows nothing.

Ever heard of tyranny by minority? Also source for these stats?

*In before the "you have a complex"*
Well, if I had to guess... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans)

Well, if I had to guess... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans)

Oh so this is just for the US.

Oh so this is just for the US.
I certainly hope so (http://www.rr-bb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37)... :p

Well, in all honesty, the American Christians - a majority - seem to have inferiority complex over secular issues, like for example teaching of evolution.

The former observation coming from a non-american without any hands on experience of the American life, let alone American Christianity beyond the wacky internet & other media. :tongue:

Saying that I solely represent a small group of four or five of self pitying Christians on this forum was false, saying that a circle graph based off of data ascertained from a survey of the world applies to a forum that is notorious for it's political homogeneity is false. ( assuming that it is factual and not political satire, in which case it is invalidated immidiatley since political cartoons are not valid evidence)

Now as for the actual topic, all I have to say is that whether or not the discussion is generic of all noisy neighbors or not will show us the true motivation behind this thread.

So you want the original poster to go back and have a "generic noisy neighbor" experience? That's not how personal experiences work. If you would like to make a post about inconsiderate neighbors, go ahead, but you can't make demands about what other people encounter in their lives.

As for the first paragraph... I'm impressed with how pompous and complicated you made a whole bunch of incoherent babble sound.

I certainly hope so (http://www.rr-bb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37)... :p

Well, in all honesty, the American Christians - a majority - seem to have inferiority complex over secular issues, like for example teaching of evolution.

The former observation coming from a non-american without any hands on experience of the American life, let alone American Christianity beyond the wacky internet & other media. :tongue:
I confidently assure you that Christians with Complexes (tm) are a minority of US Christians, just like they are a minority on this forum. They're just an intrusive minority.

So you want the original poster to go back and have a "generic noisy neighbor" experience? That's not how personal experiences work. If you would like to make a post about inconsiderate neighbors, go ahead, but you can't make demands about what other people encounter in their lives.

As for the first paragraph... I'm impressed with how pompous and complicated you made a whole bunch of incoherent babble sound.

1) I merely doubted that single groups weren't being mentioned exclusively.

2) How is pointing out false statements incoherent babble?

Your letting your strong and misguided emotions fog your logic, supposing of course that you possess any.

So, you're not above personal attacks yourself, huh?

I confidently assure you that Christians with Complexes (tm) are a minority of US Christians, just like they are a minority on this forum. They're just an intrusive minority.
I sure hope so this nazi like approach to christianity is highly alarming.

@SL I appreciate your math lesson, I didn't wish to demonize you (for that I sincerely appologise) I only wished for you to reconsider your tactics as a christian.
I'm not familiar with the numbers but I'm sure you have a grasp of just how much easier it is to reach and communicate today as opposed to 5-10 years ago, the ripple effect of your outreach can be far reaching indeed. I'll not get into any debate over your effectiveness to be heard here because quite frankly I hope people quit feeding this fire that is all to obviously causing you unrest.

I wish you a rich and full life and hope you find your inner-peace have you thought of asking the lord to take this hostility and anger off your shoulders?

South Lizasauria, I have read all through this thread to find out what the point of it was.

Then I read all through greed and death's thread to see if it had a caveat on it saying "SL DO NOT POST HERE!"

It didn't.

I really don't see why you had to start a new thread to make a comment you could have made in g&d's thread.

Nonetheless, you did, and whatever point it was you had to make, I think you've made it and now the thread is sliding into flaming/Christian-baiting/non-Christian baiting.

As we have already plenty of threads serving the same reprehensible purpose, iLock.

Archoille, this being its own thread is my responsibility.

Since it was off on its own tangent of "christian bashing", and taking attention away from greed & death and the discussion of his neighbors, I split it off into its own thread.

Ah, thanks, Kat. If you're keeping an eye on it, it won't be able to slide any further, so I'll unlock it.

I will not support any action against freedom of religion unless it is established that said freedom is being abused by what cult experts define as a cult.
I will not support any action against freedom of religion, unless that freedom of religion is going against the law and against other people's freedom.

LIKE THE LAWS ABOUT ACOUSTIC POLLUTION AND NOISE LEVELS.
LIKE THE FREEDOM TO SLEEP IN ONE'S OWN HOME AT NIGHT WITHOUT BEING AWAKEN BY NOISES... BE THOSE NOISES "JEEESUUUUSSS", "BANG BANG", "WROOOOOM" OR WHATEVER.

After all, any religion is some sort of cult (quod vide).

Also, many christians usually brag about "we're being oppressed", but when they're asked to respect other peoples' right, they become strangely deaf. Of course, many people are angered by this attitude.

I will not support any action against freedom of religion, unless that freedom of religion is going against the law and against other people's freedom.

LIKE THE LAWS ABOUT ACOUSTIC POLLUTION AND NOISE LEVELS.
LIKE THE FREEDOM TO SLEEP IN ONE'S OWN HOME AT NIGHT WITHOUT BEING AWAKEN BY NOISES... BE THOSE NOISES "JEEESUUUUSSS", "BANG BANG", "WROOOOOM" OR WHATEVER.

What about when the law allows them to do this?

What about when the law allows them to do this?

If the law says it's ok, then it's ok. The only solution there would be campaigning to change the law.
In Italy that noise wouldn't be allowed - as I stated in the other thread, some churchbells have been silenced by order of the magistrates, following complaints of people living nearby.

If the law says it's ok, then it's ok. The only solution there would be campaigning to change the law.
In Italy that noise wouldn't be allowed - as I stated in the other thread, some churchbells have been silenced by order of the magistrates, following complaints of people living nearby.

Which is fair enough, but since this church is allowed to make this noise as it got a permit to do so, then the only option is to impose your beliefs into law and change it.

Which is fair enough, but since this church is allowed to make this noise as it got a permit to do so, then the only option is to impose your beliefs into law and change it.

One could check whether said permit has been issued legally by the local authorities, and whether the church is not abusing that permit (maybe it's implicit that their noise shouldn't heard without, and they infringe that provision).
Anyway, I wouldn't call campaigning "imposing my beliefs" - at least not in the meaning of "religious beliefs". I would call it "asking for more respect between different components of the society", and "taking an active part in the democratic process".

One could check whether said permit has been issued legally by the local authorities, and whether the church is not abusing that permit (maybe it's implicit that their noise shouldn't heard without, and they infringe that provision).
Anyway, I wouldn't call campaigning "imposing my beliefs" - at least not in the meaning of "religious beliefs". I would call it "asking for more respect between different components of the society", and "taking an active part in the democratic process".

Well yes he should check that, though he has called the police and they have said that the permit allows them to do this.

Now I never said religious beliefs I said beliefs, and you can call it what you want it is still getting your beliefs into law and imposing them upon others. Now there is nothing wrong with that and should be encouraged but getting your beliefs into law even attempting to is taking an active part in the democratic process.

Now I never said religious beliefs I said beliefs, and you can call it what you want it is still getting your beliefs into law and imposing them upon others. In that meaning, yes, I can agree - keeping in mind that, when you live in a democracy with the rule of majority, you can pass laws only if a majority agrees with you - so it's a bit more than just "one's" own beliefs.

Spam-a-licious!!!

Spam-a-licious!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8huXkSaL7o&feature=related

As much as it doesn't belong here I thought it was appropriate.

Spam, spam, spam spam nothing but spam.

I confidently assure you that Christians with Complexes (tm) are a minority of US Christians, just like they are a minority on this forum. They're just an intrusive minority.
Yes, yes, I know...I was being obtuse due to lack of sleep :)

My original intention was to wonder about the contrast of God-abiding leadership - eg. presidents of USA have always been religious, no? - with the seemingly loud whining about how the rights of Christians are trampled by the secular leadership...Leadership which seems to be horribly religious to a secular European.


I mean, if something like the following excerpt would happen here....Well, there would be roughly 95% chance of sending the president to asylum :tongue:
"President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did." (quote from quick googling)

They have a right to do so, any complaints there?

Threads have been made about these other things before.