NationStates Jolt Archive

Regarding "conspiracy theories" of the sixties: does anyone think "more than meets the eye" was going on? Was JFK assassinated by the CIA? did Nixon have a hand in it? Did the Kennedys have anything to do with Marilyn Monroe's death? How far did MK-ULTRA go? is it still active? Please bring forth your theories on all these strange events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK-ULTRA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_assassination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kennedy_assassination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_assassination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace#Assassination_attempt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marilyn_Monroe

I recently read a very good book dealing heavily with the Kennedy assassination. The official version of the story had a lot of holes in it, and even Lyndon Johnson didn't actually believe it. (Granted he was paranoid, but if the sitting President doesn't believe the report of his own commission, that should tell you something.) My view is, based on evidence, that there was more than one gunman, and there was probably a conspiracy. I'd tend to believe that if there was a conspiracy, it originated from the anti-Castro Cuba exiles, who hated Kennedy. There is evidence that the CIA may have had something to do with it, and they certainly hated Kennedy, so I couldn't say. If the CIA had a hand in it, I wouldn't be surprised. And I totally reject the notion Nixon had anything to do with it, before the 1960 election, John Kennedy and Richard Nixon were pretty good friends. I don't think there was a conspiracy with the RFK assassination though.

I recently read a very good book dealing heavily with the Kennedy assassination. The official version of the story had a lot of holes in it, and even Lyndon Johnson didn't actually believe it. (Granted he was paranoid, but if the sitting President doesn't believe the report of his own commission, that should tell you something.)

Gerald Ford, who was on the commission investigating the assassination, lied about the trajectory of the "magic bullet" (he admitted this himself in the 90's).

Gerald Ford, who was on the commission investigating the assassination, lied about the trajectory of the "magic bullet" (he admitted this himself in the 90's).

Did he? I never heard that, though I read two expert Marine snipers couldn't replicate the events as the Warren Commission described them. And by magic bullet, you mean the one that supposedly exited through his neck, and then got Connally?

Did he? I never heard that, though I read two expert Marine snipers couldn't replicate the events as the Warren Commission described them. And by magic bullet, you mean the one that supposedly exited through his neck, and then got Connally?

The same. In 1997 Ford admitted that he changed the report on how the bullet entered Kennedy from the way it actually did. Why? According to Ford, if he did not, then the "magic bullet" trajectory would not be physically possible--he said: "My changes were only an attempt to be more precise. I think our judgments have stood the test of time."

http://www.unexplainedstuff.com/Secret-Societies/The-Magic-Bullet-that-Killed-JFK.html

http://spot.acorn.net/JFKplace/00/ford.changed

And I totally reject the notion Nixon had anything to do with it, before the 1960 election, John Kennedy and Richard Nixon were pretty good friends.

I do as well; but it is possible that Kennedy was killed to make way for Nixon, whether Nixon knew this or not.

And here is an interesting list of death associated with JFK's assassination.

11/63 Karyn Kupcinet TV host's daughter who was overheard telling of JFK's death prior to 11/22/63 Murdered No corroboration for Penn Jones' implausible "foreknowledge" claim.

12/63 Jack Zangretti Expressed foreknowledge of Ruby shooting Oswald Gunshot Victim Actually "Zangetty." Unsourced claim by Penn Jones with no corroboration. Supposedly, member of Sinatra
family was to be kidnapped.

2/64 Eddy Benavides Lookalike brother to Tippit shooting witness, Domingo Benavides Gunshot to head Death judged nonsinister by HSCA

2/64 Betty MacDonald* Former Ruby employee who alibied Warren Reynolds shooting suspect. Suicide by hanging in Dallas Jail Was in fact a suicide.

3/64 Bill Chesher Thought to have information linking Oswald and Ruby Heart attack No evidence he could link Ruby and Oswald. HSCA found death nonsinister

3/64 Hank Killam* Husband of Ruby employee, knew Oswald acquaintance Throat cut HSCA found death non-suspicious.

4/64 Bill Hunter* Reporter who was in Ruby's apartment on 11/24/63 Accidental shooting by policeman Death judged non-suspicious by HSCA. Accidently shot by cop.

5/64 Gary Underhill* CIA agent who claimed Agency was involved Gunshot in head ruled suicide Was not a CIA agent. Death was indeed a suicide.

5/64 Hugh Ward* Private investigator working with Guy Banister and David Ferrie Plane crash in Mexico No evidence of connection to case.

5/64 DeLesseps Morrison* New Orleans Passenger in Ward's plane Was mayor of New Orleans. Otherwise, unconnected to case.

8/64 Teresa Norton* Ruby employee Fatally shot Same person as Karen Carlin. Marrs listed her twice, and further she is not known to be dead.

6/64 Guy Banister* x-FBI agent in New Orleans connected to Ferrie, CIA, Carlos Marcello & Oswald Heart attack No evidence death was from foul play.

9/64 Jim Koethe* Reporter who was in Ruby's apartment on 11/24/63 Blow to neck Judged non-suspicious by HSCA. Police suspected fight with gay lover.

9/64 C.D. Jackson "Life" magazine senior Vice President who bought Zapruder Film and locked it away Unknown No other connection to the case. Actually died of a heart attack.

10/64 Mary Pinchot JFK "special" friend whose diary was taken by CIA chief James Angleton after her death Murdered Killed in mugging. Her diary had account of affair with JFK, nothing about assassination.

1/65 Paul Mandel "Life" writer who told of JFK turning to rear when shot in throat Cancer No other connection to the case -- did indeed die of cancer

3/65 Tom Howard* Ruby's first lawyer, was in Ruby's apartment on 11/24/63 Heart attack Had history of heart disease and was heavy drinker. HSCA found death non-sinister.

5/65 Maurice Gatlin* Pilot for Guy Banister Fatal fall No connection with assassination.

8/65 Mona B. Saenz* Texas Employment clerk who interviewed Oswald Hit by Dallas bus Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" her.

?/65 David Goldstein Dallasite who helped FBI trace Oswald's pistol Natural causes Every gunshop owner in Dallas, including Goldstein, provided affidavit saying he did not sell Oswald pistol. No other connection.

9/65 Rose Cheramie* Knew of assassination in advance, told of riding to Dallas with Cubans Hit/run victim Prostitute and drug addict, doubtful her statements that Kennedy was going to be killed indicated "foreknowledge."

11/65 Dorothy Kilgallen* Columnist who had private interview with Ruby, pledged to "break" JFK case Drug overdose HSCA investigated her death, found nothing sinister.

11/65 Mrs. Earl Smith* Close friend to Dorothy Kilgallen, died two days after columnist, may have kept Kilgallen's notes Cause unknown A fellow Journal-American columnist, she died after three-month illness. No evidence of any knowledge about the case.

12/65 William Whaley* Cab driver who reportedly drove Oswald to Oak Cliff (The only Dallas taxi driver to die on duty) Motor collision 83 year-old man in oncoming car crashed into Whaley on viaduct, killing himself and Whaley.

1966 Judge Joe Brown Presided over Ruby's trial Heart attack What was he supposed to know that was sinister?

1966 Karen "Little Lynn" Carlin* Ruby employee who last talked with Ruby before Oswald shooting Gunshot victim Same person as Teresa Norton (see above). No reliable evidence of her death.

1/66 Earlene Roberts Oswald's landlady Heart attack Had a history of heart disease.

2/66 Albert Bogard* Car salesman who said Oswald test drove new car Suicide Investigation of local authorities and testimony of relatives makes it clear it was indeed suicide.

6/66 Capt. Frank Martin Dallas policeman who witnessed Oswald slaying, told Warren Commission "there's a lot to be said but probably be better if I don't say it" Sudden cancer
Immediately explained what it would be better not to say: that the Dallas police had performed poorly in allowing Oswald to be killed.

8/66 Lee Bowers Jr.* Witnessed men behind picket fence on Grassy Knoll Motor accident Investigated by HSCA, and researcher David Perry. No evidence of murder.

9/66 Marilyn "Delila" Walle* Ruby dancer Shot by husband after 1 month of marriage Shot in domestic squabble.

10/66 Lt. William Pitzer* JFK autopsy photographer who described his duty as "horrifying experience" Gunshot ruled suicide Evidence contradicts alleged claim to have photographed autopsy. No evidence of murder.

11/66 Jimmy Levens Fort Worth nightclub owner who hired Ruby employees Natural causes Casual acquaintance of Ruby's. HSCA judged death non-suspicious.

11/66 James Worrell Jr.* Saw man flee rear of Texas School Book Depository Motor accident Told Warren Commission of seeing a shooter in Sniper's Nest. Died in motorcycle accident.

1966 Clarence Oliver Dist. Atty. Investigator who worked Ruby case Unknown Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

12/66 Hank Suydam Life magazine official in charge of JFK stories Heart attack No other connection to the case.

1967 Leonard Pullin Civilian Navy employee who helped film "Last Two Days" about assassination One-car crash Film actually dealt with Texas trip, and had no information about assassination.

1/67 Jack Ruby* Oswald's slayer Lung cancer (he told family he was injected with cancer cells) Inducing cancer by injecting cancer cells is medical nonsense. Ruby's mental condition had badly deteriorated.

2/67 Harold Russell* Saw escape of Tippit killer Killed by cop in bar brawl Actually died of heart failure several hours after bar brawl.

2/67 David Ferrie* Acquaintance of Oswald, Garrison suspect and employee of Guy Banister Blow to neck (ruled accidental) Died of Berry aneurysm, natural causes.

2/67 Eladio Del Valle* Anti-Castro Cuban associate of David Ferrie being sought by Garrison Gunshot wound, ax wound to head Was involved in drug running, various criminal activities. No "axe wound."

3/67 Dr. Mary Sherman* Ferrie associate working on cancer research Died in fire (possibly shot) No evidence of Ferrie association, died in 1964, and was not shot, but rather stabbed. Otherwise, Marrs is correct.

1/68 A. D. Bowie Asst. Dallas District Attorney prosecuting Ruby Cancer Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

4/68 Hiram Ingram Dallas Deputy Sheriff, close friend to Roger Craig Sudden cancer Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

5/68 Dr. Nicholas Chetta New Orleans coroner who ruled on death of Ferrie Heart attack No evidence he knew anything sinister. HSCA found nothing suspicious about death.

8/68 Philip Geraci* Friend of Perry Russo, told of Oswald/Shaw conversation Electrocution Note Marrs' syntax. It was Russo, and not Geraci who told of story of "Oswald/Shaw conversation."

1/69 Henry Delaune* Brother-in-law to coroner Chetta Murdered If Chetta's death wasn't suspicious, how was that of his brother-in-law supposed to be?

1/69 E.R. Walthers* Dallas Deputy Sheriff who was involved in Depository search, claimed to have found .45-cal. slug Shot by felon Made no claim of finding slug, in fact explicitly denied it. Killed trying to arrest violent suspect.

1969 Charles Mentesana Filmed rifle other than Mannlicher-Carcano being taken from Depository Heart attack Film actually shows Dallas Police shotgun, and survives to this day. Had no other knowledge of the assassination.

4/69 Mary Bledsoe Neighbor to Oswald, also knew David Ferrie Natural causes Key witness supporting Warren Commission case. Died at age 72.

4/69 John Crawford* Close friend to both Ruby and Wesley Frazier, who gave ride to Oswald on 11/22/63 Crash of private plane No evidence of foul play.

7/69 Rev. Clyde Johnson* Scheduled to testify about Clay Shaw/Oswald connection Fatally shot Was shot after end of trial, so unreliable prosecution decided not to use him. HSCA judged death non-sinister.

1970 George McGann* Underworld figure connected to Ruby friends, wife, Beverly, took film in Dealey Plaza Murdered Beverly's claim has severe credibility problems. No other connection with the case.

1/70 Darrell W. Garner Arrested for shooting Warren Reynolds, released after alibi from Betty MacDonald Drug overdose No evidence of any connection to the assassination.

8/70 Bill Decker Dallas Sheriff who saw bullet hit street in front of JFK Natural causes Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

8/70 Abraham Zapruder Took famous film of JFK assassination Natural causes Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

12/70 Salvatore Granello* Mobster linked to both Hoffa,Trafficante, and Castro assassination plots Murdered Unfortunately, no link to Kennedy assassination plot.

1971 James Plumeri* Mobster tied to mob-CIA assassination plots Murdered Mobster getting murdered is not that unusual. Plumeri had no connection with the case.

3/71 Clayton Fowler Ruby's chief defense attorney Unknown Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

4/71 Gen. Charles Cabell* CIA deputy director connected to anti-Castro Cubans Collapsed and died after physical at Fort Myers Circumstances not sinister, no connection with assassination.

1972 Hale Boggs* House Majority Leader, member of Warren Commission who began to publicly express doubts about findings Disappeared on Alaskan plane flight Having doubts about findings is not the same as having information "dangerous" to a conspiracy.

5/72 J. Edgar Hoover* FBI director who pushed "lone assassin" theory in JFK assassination Heart attack (no autopsy) Died at age 77. Wasn't he running the coverup? Who killed him?

9/73 Thomas E. Davis* Gunrunner connected to both Ruby and CIA Electrocuted trying to steal wire No connection to assassination.

2/74 J.A. Milteer* Miami right-winger who predicted JFK's death and capture of scapegoat Heater explosion Milteer's crackpot statements are far from a "prediction" of JFK's death.

1974 Dave Yaras* Close friend to both Hoffa and Jack Ruby Murdered Childhood friend of Ruby's, had no contact with him in 1963.

7/74 Earl Warren Chief Justice who reluctantly chaired Warren Commission Heart failure Died at age 82. Insisted to the end that Oswald was the lone assassin.

8/74 Clay Shaw* Prime suspect in Garrison case, reportedly a CIA contact with Ferrie and E. Howard Hunt Possible cancer Garrison's flimsy case against Shaw collapsed in 1969. Shaw died of cancer.

1974 Earle Cabell Mayor of Dallas on 11/22/63, whose brother, Gen. Charles Cabell was fired from CIA by JFK Natural causes Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

6/75 Sam Giancana* Chicago Mafia boss slated to tell about CIA-mob death plots to Senate Committee Murdered HSCA found no evidence his death was assassination related.

7/75 Clyde Tolson J. Edgar Hoover's assistant and roommate Natural causes Died of heart disease at age 71.

1975 Allen Sweatt Dallas Deputy Sheriff involved in investigation Natural causes One of scores of deputies involved in investigation.

12/75 Gen. Earle Wheeler Contact between JFK and CIA Unknown Died of heart failure at age 67 — no connection with case.

1976 Ralph Paul Ruby's business partner connected with crime figures Heart attack Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

4/76 James Chaney Dallas motorcycle officer riding to JFK's right rear who said JFK "struck in the face" with bullet Heart attack Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

4/76 Dr. Charles Gregory Governor John Connally's physician Heart attack His testimony refuted the idea that there was "too much lead" in Connally to have come from CE 399.

6/76 William Harvey* CIA coordinator for CIA-mob assassination plans against Castro Complications from heart surgery No connection with Kennedy assassination.

7/76 John Roselli* Mobster who testified to Senate Committee and was to appear again Stabbed and stuffed in metal drum HSCA found no evidence his murder was related to JFK assassination.

1/77 William Pawley* Former Brazilian Ambassador connected to Anti-Castro Cubans, crime figures Gunshot ruled suicide No connection with assassination

3/77 George DeMohrenschildt* Close friend to both Oswald and Bouvier family (Jackie Kennedy's parents), CIA contract agent Gunshot wound ruled suicide Was not "CIA contract agent." Had history of mental illness and previous suicide attempts. Death thoroughly investigated by the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office.

3/77 Carlos Prio Soccaras* Former Cuban President, money man for anti-Castro Cubans Gunshot wound ruled suicide No connection to case.

3/77 Paul Raigorodsky Business friend of George DeMohrenschildt and wealthy oilmen Natural causes Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

5/77 Lou Staples* Dallas radio Talk Show host who told friends he would break assassination case Gunshot to head, ruled suicide Was living in Oklahoma when he killed himself. Apparently unable to "break the case."

6/77 Louis Nichols Former No. 3 man in FBI, worked on JFK investigation Heart attack No evidence of foul play.

8/77 Alan Belmont FBI official who testified to Warren Commission "Long illness" No evidence of foul play.

8/77 James Cadigan FBI document expert who testified to Warren Commission Fall in home No evidence of any foul play.

8/77 Joseph C. Ayres* Chief steward on JFK's Air Force One Shooting accident Being Chief Steward doubtless allowed him to garner much sinister information.

8/77 Francis G. Powers* U-2 pilot downed over Russia in 1960 Helicopter crash (He reportedly ran out of fuel) Speculated Oswald may have given the Soviets information that allowed them to shoot him down. Had no evidence.

9/77 Kenneth O'Donnell JFK's closest aide Natural causes Died of aneurysm and liver complications.


10/77 Donald Kaylor FBI fingerprint chemist Heart attack One of hundreds of FBI employees with marginal connection to assassination.

10/77 J.M. English Former head of FBI Forensic Sciences Laboratory Heart attack No evidence of foul play.

11/77 William Sullivan* Former No. 3 man in FBI, headed Division 5, counter- espionage and domestic intelligence Hunting accident Investigation by New Hampshire authorities showed no indication of foul play.

1978 C.L. "Lummie" Lewis Dallas Deputy Sheriff who arrested Mafia man Braden in Dealey Plaza Natural causes Are we supposed to assume that Braden blurted out details of plot to cop arresting him?

9/78 Garland Slack Man who said Oswald fired at his target at rifle range Unknown Died of heart disease — no connection with the case beyond "Oswald sighting" discussed in Warren Commission Report.

1/79 Billy Lovelady Depository employee said to be the man in the doorway in AP photograph Complications from heart attack Unclear what sinister information he might have revealed.

6/80 Jesse Curry Dallas Police Chief at time of assassination Heart attack Unclear why there would be any need to "silence" him almost 17 years after assassination.

6/80 Dr. John Holbrook Psychiatrist who testified Ruby was not insane Heart attack but pills, notes found Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

1/81 Marguerite Oswald Mother of accused assassin Cancer Always loudly insisted her son was innocent. Unclear what information she had that she had not already revealed.

10/81 Frank Watts Chief felony prosecutor for Dallas D.A. Natural causes Died of cancer at age 83.

1/82 Peter Gregory Original translator for Marina Oswald and Secret Service Natural causes Circumstances not suspicious — no evidence of any reason to "silence" him.

5/82 Dr. James Weston Pathologist allowed to see JFK autopsy material for HSCA Died while jogging, ruled natural causes Insisted that Kennedy was hit by two shots from behind.

8/82 Will H. Griffin FBI agent who reportedly said Oswald was "definitely" an FBI informant Cancer HSCA investigation found he had said no such thing.

10/82 W. Marvin Gheesling FBI official who helped supervise JFK investigation "Long illness" Circumstances not suspicious — had only minor role in investigation.

3/84 Roy Kellerman Secret Service agent in charge of JFK limousine Unknown Died of heart failure at age 69.



Even supposing 9/10 of those deaths had noting to do with the CIA (I heavily doubt many of them did), that still leaves something rather large.

Regarding JFK, the whop whose family knows some retired mobsters in me cant buy into conspirecies. Let me explain.

Kennedy used the mob to help him get elected (allegidly)
Kennedy used the mob to try and deal with Castro
Kennedy then went after the mob
The Mob, after being betrayed, offed Kennedy.


You dont betray the Mob.

Regarding JFK, the whop whose family knows some retired mobsters in me cant buy into conspirecies. Let me explain.

Kennedy used the mob to help him get elected (allegidly)
Kennedy used the mob to try and deal with Castro
Kennedy then went after the mob
The Mob, after being betrayed, offed Kennedy.


You dont betray the Mob.

*whacks KOL while he is driving through a toll booth (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hM_-uMjw8Es)*

Regarding JFK, the whop whose family knows some retired mobsters in me cant buy into conspirecies. Let me explain.

Kennedy used the mob to help him get elected (allegidly)
Kennedy used the mob to try and deal with Castro
Kennedy then went after the mob
The Mob, after being betrayed, offed Kennedy.


You dont betray the Mob.

^If there was a conspiracy, this was it.

Unless it was Jewish Space Lizards.

Unless it was Jewish Space Lizards.

Theyre still at war with the Crab people and Mole Men over this.

I don't think that I would be surprised if the cia was involved.
Those fuckers were pretty much out of control throughout the cold war.

The JFK Conspiracy is a popular one that has festered in the national conscience for quite some time even though there is no credible evidence to support any of the various versions spouted by folks wearing tin-foil hats.

It was one of the most famous assassinations and exhaustive investigations in American history. If the government under Nixon couldn't shut up about Watergate then how do you think they kept his or anyone elses involvement in the Kennedy assassination quiet all these years?

As for the "second gunman" theory (it's more of a hypothesis), it was disproven more than once by using the same make and model of rifle that Oswald used to shoot melons wrapped in tape. Turns out that when you get shot in the head with a rifle a whole bunch of blood and bits fly out the exit wound in a little jet blast that pushes you back. If that shot leaves through your head then you're head will jerk toward the shot, not away from it.

Lee H. Oswald shot the president of the United states.

Lee H. Oswald shot the president of the United states.

Under orders from the mob *nods*.

Aliens.


I think really we might never know.

Under orders from the mob *nods*.
And no credible evidence of this surfaced during the investigation or in the years after because the mob is super-secure and never slips up?

.Lee H. Oswald shot the president of the United states.

Three times within six seconds? With a bolt-action rifle? From one hundred metres away? While he was on a moving car?

Then the alleged gunman manages to get offed rather quickly. Forgive me if this seems a tad outlandish.

well "more then meets the eye" aka palace intrigue, is ALWAYS going on.
don't kid yourself.
that doesn't though, make one guess about what we don't know more likely that any particular one other.

there WERE all sort of intrigues and so on going on. probably have been as long as there have been nations and politics. certainly as long as there has existed the current american nation. probably all of the countries that each had their own empires from time to time in europe too.

i really think though, that its too common and too common sense just about inevitable to make it like, some kind of, any kind of a big shock about it.

as for what actually happened in the kennedy case; jfk, well my own theory is that the actual shooting, that is to say the bullet that actually did the job, was one that was fired by acident, and at any rate absolutely not from the 10th floor of any building.

while at the same time it IS known that there WERE hired proffessional assins present, at least one or two on 'the grassy knoll. but i just don't think, its one of histories peculiar irons if my theory is true, that it was any of them who did the job.

and there were a BUNCH of different conspiracies going on. there's no shortage of suspects in that reguard. more an embarassment of 'riches', so to speak.

i just think what actually happened though, didn't have anything to do with them, or oswald either.

If the Mob had wanted to whack someone, they would have gone after RFK, who was giving them hell. Jimmy Hoffa once plotted to assassinate him, but decided not to. I don't think the Mob was the principal force behind the JFK asassination, though perhaps there was involvement. Jack Ruby had ties to the Mob after all. And also, Oswald, at one point at least, was working for or with the FBI.

Always look at the spouse - Jackie was behind it all. Nixon had a good motive...Lee Harvey Oswald did it - there was no conspiracy.

Don't you watch the Xfiles? The cigarette smoking man did it
oh and Bill Hicks take on JFK Asassianation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Fl9ZVJ7B8

Three times within six seconds? With a bolt-action rifle? From one hundred metres away? While he was on a moving car?

Then the alleged gunman manages to get offed rather quickly. Forgive me if this seems a tad outlandish.

Of course. It's definitely not an outlandish rate of fire for a bolt action, and easily within the physical limitations of the rifle used.

One hundred metres, while sounding impressive, is not particularly tricky for someone who had trained in the Marines, and was able to qualify as a Sharpshooter.

Now, there is a possibility that Oswald was put up to it in some way. That can't really be denied, and needs some thought, although my suspicion is he wasn't. But that he was capable of the technical skill needed and that the shots were consistent with a single shooter (many of the problems with the 'Magic Bullet' are the production of conspiracy theorists) cannot be denied.

Of course. It's definitely not an outlandish rate of fire for a bolt action, and easily within the physical limitations of the rifle used.

One hundred metres, while sounding impressive, is not particularly tricky for someone who had trained in the Marines, and was able to qualify as a Sharpshooter.

Now, there is a possibility that Oswald was put up to it in some way. That can't really be denied, and needs some thought, although my suspicion is he wasn't. But that he was capable of the technical skill needed and that the shots were consistent with a single shooter (many of the problems with the 'Magic Bullet' are the production of conspiracy theorists) cannot be denied.

There's no way he'd be able to hit the target with anything but the first shot though. A window of only two seconds to cycle the bolt and retrain the telescopic sights on target is just unfeasible.

Firing three shots in six seconds is difficult enough. I've done it before. Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from a hundred meters.

starts at about 4:40:p (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-R-yVhXN4)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_assassination_theories#More_than_one_gunman There is evidence for the two gunman theory actually...

The same. In 1997 Ford admitted that he changed the report on how the bullet entered Kennedy from the way it actually did. Why? According to Ford, if he did not, then the "magic bullet" trajectory would not be physically possible--he said: "My changes were only an attempt to be more precise. I think our judgments have stood the test of time."



Because Ford was such a ballistics expert that he would know that. :rolleyes:

How come no one mentioned that Oswald went to the USSR? Before he assassinated JFK, he went to Moscow, and he wanted to defect to the Soviet. He was also a Marine Expert Marksmen. However the Soviet turned him away, he was distraught by this.

What if, the Soviet told him "Ok, you can join us, but you must prove your worth."? The Soviet and Cuba were allies.

How come no one mentioned that Oswald went to the USSR? Before he assassinated JFK, he went to Moscow, and he wanted to defect to the Soviet. He was also a Marine Expert Marksmen. However the Soviet turned him away, he was distraught by this.

What if, the Soviet told him "Ok, you can join us, but you must prove your worth."? The Soviet and Cuba were allies.

As far as I know he lived in Russia for nearly 3 years and left because he decided it wasn't for him anymore. Not because the Russians forced him out. I reckon it's probably fairly unlikely that he would hgave done it in order to be allowed to stay in Russia.

As far as I know he lived in Russia for nearly 3 years and left because he decided it wasn't for him anymore. Not because the Russians forced him out. I reckon it's probably fairly unlikely that he would hgave done it in order to be allowed to stay in Russia.

Seems like you're right, but the Soviets did at first reject his citizenship request. It was only after slitting his wrist did they decide to let him stay.

Three times within six seconds? With a bolt-action rifle? From one hundred metres away? While he was on a moving car?

Then the alleged gunman manages to get offed rather quickly. Forgive me if this seems a tad outlandish.
It was 8 seconds according to the official account and I have been able to do 3 shots more accurately than him (the first shot missed) from 100 yards in 5 seconds flat. And I have no Marine training, I'm just a really good marksman. It's not nearly as hard as some people make it out to be.

George H.W. Bush was behind the Kennedy assassination. *nods*

George H.W. Bush was behind the Kennedy assassination. *nods*
No, George W. Bush was behind the Kennedy assassination. And he hates babies. And he killed a kitten for every vote that wasn't cast for him in 2000 and 2004.

There could have been a conspiracy. One way to keep a "deed" secret is to make it as crazy and outlandish as possible, secretly. If it sounds crazy and outlandish enough when explained, the less likely the saner members of society would believe it. It could have been the cia and/or the mob. Both had a reason to hate him. Kennedy didn't exactly make the cia's adventure in Cuba a success. He kinda got in the way.

As for RFK, here's how it happened. Palistinian guy with gun hates Isreal. RFK supports Isreal. Rather than have another president support Isreal, Palistinian guy with gun kills Jew-nonkiller RFK.

Mk-ultra should not be on that list, seeing as it is proven historical fact on public record. The others are still in the realm of theorizing. I've never even heard the Monroe one so far as I can recall.

Cerean;14200931']I don't think that I would be surprised if the cia was involved.
Those fuckers were pretty much out of control throughout the cold war.

"Were?"

How come no one mentioned that Oswald went to the USSR? Before he assassinated JFK, he went to Moscow, and he wanted to defect to the Soviet. He was also a Marine Expert Marksmen. However the Soviet turned him away, he was distraught by this.

What if, the Soviet told him "Ok, you can join us, but you must prove your worth."? The Soviet and Cuba were allies.

Then Krushchev must have been one hell of a actor, because he was despondent for days after he heard Kennedy was dead.

Three times within six seconds? With a bolt-action rifle? From one hundred metres away? While he was on a moving car?

Then the alleged gunman manages to get offed rather quickly. Forgive me if this seems a tad outlandish.

I've seen a documentary where a seventy year old history professor dry fired the same model rifle three times in 7.3 seconds and had ample time to reacquire his target between shots. Let's not forget, as already pointed out, that Oswald was Marine trained and scored quite high on his marksmanship trials. Now I won't discount the theory that he was part of a conspiracy, but I believe he was the only shooter.

There were obviously 2 shooters. More than one person conspiring to kill someone. It was a conspiracy. End of story.

Lol.

Regarding "conspiracy theories" of the sixties: does anyone think "more than meets the eye" was going on?

Yes.

Was JFK assassinated by the CIA?

Maybe.

did Nixon have a hand in it?

Maybe.

Did the Kennedys have anything to do with Marilyn Monroe's death?

Nah.