NationStates Jolt Archive

Judas, the dude who gave up Jesus to the Romans in the Bible.

Assuming the Christian version of reality is true, if Judas burning in hell for his actions? Or is Jesus and Judas best buddies hangin' up in Heaven?

I'm go with heaven. Forgiveness and all that.

Jesus had foreknowledge of Judas' betrayal, and said betrayal was an ordained part of His plan. Thus Judas was simply a pawn.

Did he repent?

Well, considerig without him Jesus couldnt have done what he did, Id say the Christians owe him.

Probably oblivion. :p

Added a poll!

You guys are like insanely fast.

Im just looking foward to the inevitable threadjack that will insue because you said in your poll that Reagan was in hell.

Im just looking foward to the inevitable threadjack that will insue because you said in your poll that Reagan was in hell.

Everyone knows Reagan was Jesus.

Im just looking foward to the inevitable threadjack that will insue because you said in your poll that Reagan was in hell.

I would have put Fred Phelps, but that SOB is still alive.

Hell - suicide is a no-no.

sounds like the gospel of judas readers.

Everyone knows Reagan was Jesus.

I thought anti-Christ?

Hell - suicide is a no-no.

I'm kinda agreeing with this.

There's no such place as Hell. Judas is in Detroit.

He's in the Cayman. Enjoying the revenue of 30 silver pieces that spent about 2,000 years in a savings account.

Reincarnated, just like everybody else who died around that time.

Hes in Muslim heaven. With 72 virgins. Who by now are 72 loose whores.

Hes in Muslim heaven. With 72 virgins. Who by now are 72 loose whores.

Raisins, the word you are looking for is raisins.

Nobody else opting for Oblivion? :D

Nobody else opting for Oblivion? :D

He's in Ward 43 of the Soul Society! :D

He's in Ward 43 of the Soul Society! :D

I knew it! :eek:

Hell - suicide is a no-no.


Suicide isn't an unforgivable sin though. Most people when considering suicide are not in the right state of mind to be weighing all the options and such. That being said, Jesus said that there was only one unforgivable sin: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, or in other words, dying with out repenting.


To back me up:

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=228

Do all those who kill themselves go to Hell?

Some people believe that all who commit suicide go immediately to Hell. However, the Bible never says if this is the case. The Bible is silent on this issue. God probably did not address it in black in white for a good reason. If we knew that we would still go to Heaven if we killed ourselves, there would probably be a lot more suicides taking place than there already are. However, if we knew that all who killed themselves were automatically banished to Hell, no matter what their situation, it may be too much for the grief-stricken family and friends to bear. Murder and suicide are not unpardonable sins. The only unforgivable sins are rejecting Christ (Mark 16:16) and blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

(Mark 3:28-29 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

All other sins can be forgiven. However, anyone contemplating suicide may be in danger of going to Hell, as their relationship with the Lord is not intact at that point. Those who would consider suicide may have a severed relationship with Christ and therefore they would enter the real Hell--which is worse than the hellish feelings they are experiencing at the moment.

It is so important to remember that God judges each of us individually, weighing all the factors of our lives, our beliefs and our motives. Each one of us is so intricate and complex, only God could really judge us in total truth, wisdom, and without favoritism. The most important truth of all, is that each one of us will stand before His throne and give account of our lives. If we lived intimately with this sobering truth, much of the sin in the church and the world, would immediately be stopped.

If you are contemplating suicide and are relying on God's grace to get you to heaven, PLEASE stop for a moment....God's grace never means that we have a free license to sin! Those who willfully sin after knowing God's grace, are in far greater danger than those who know less. Though you may feel that God is far from you right now, He is much nearer than you think. He may even be speaking to you through these words! Please open your ears and hear Him tell you how valuable your life is. You are needed on this earth and the purpose for your life has not yet been fulfilled. God loves you, and so do many people around you! God would not be God if He could not work this situation (no matter how unbearable it may seem) for His glory and for the good in your own life.

Depression is often anger, and a host of other emotions that have turned inward and become frozen. If you are carrying anger, resentment, bitterness, unforgiveness, frustration, jealousy, despair, worthlessness, hopelessness, fearfulness, vengeance and/or self-pity in your heart, you can turn these things over to God and begin to receive your healing right now, in faith. If you don't know how to let them go, confess it to God and ask for His help in releasing it to Him. No one can overcome these things by themselves. We all need the power of God to set us free from sinful and hopeless ways of thinking. That is why the Bible tells us that we must be "transformed, by the renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2)." The Holy Spirit is the only One who can help us break free and be healed of these deadly emotions.

Just as ailments in our physical body need to be treated with medicine to be healed, the same is true of our emotions. One powerful way to fight against depression, is to apply and confess God's Word as a healing balm to the places where you have been wounded. For instance, if you have unforgiveness in your heart, begin to confess God's verses for love and forgiveness, even if they don't exactly feel true right at the moment. If you feel worthless, confess the Scriptures of God's great love for you. A rote, mechanical repeating of words may not do much, but if you deliberately take these living words and hold on to them for dear life, you will have the enemy on the run. The devil simply cannot stand against the Word of God spoken in faith. God's Words are like spiritual antibiotics, destroying every germ and unclean thing in their path.

There's no such place as Hell. Judas is in Detroit.

Oh the humanity!

In seriousness though, Judas is dead. He no longer exists, the body has been reduced to dust, and there is nothing left of him.

I knew it! :eek:

Well, actually, he was... Word is he made it into Captain. He has silvery hair and this sword that extends itself...

Well, actually, he was... Word is he made it into Captain. He has silvery hair and this sword that extends itself...

ooh, impressive. :)

Judas is dead. He no longer exists, the body has been reduced to dust, and there is nothing left of him.

This Judas is no more! He has ceased to be! He’s expired and gone to meet his maker! This is a late Judas. He’s a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace, if you hadn’t nailed him to the cross, he would be pushing up the daisies! He’s rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This is an ex-Judas!

This Judas is no more! He has ceased to be! He’s expired and gone to meet his maker! This is a late Judas. He’s a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace, if you hadn’t nailed him to the cross, he would be pushing up the daisies! He’s rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This is an ex-Judas!

Exactly :D

There's no such place as Hell. Judas is in Detroit.

That poor bastard! :eek:

Judas? Let me call down and ask.

.....Now why isn't Satan answering my calls?

Oh, yeah, I don't believe in him either.

That poor bastard! :eek:

I think I saw him a few years back at the Wayne State University campus, begging for pieces of silver. Seems he can't get enough of that!

He is very important figure to Christianity. Where would Christianity be without Jesus' martyrdom?

So yeah, he's chilling up in heaven. If you take the Christian view, and plus there's forgiveness and all that.

*snip.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty well known these days? I'm a Catholic and most of me n my Catholic buddies are pretty sure Jesus ain't gonna deny ya from heaven because of suicide. That's just us though. A few priests have been a bit iffy about it, but they haven't said 'you will go to hell', just seem to sit on the fence.

Judas? Let me call down and ask.

.....Now why isn't Satan answering my calls?

Oh, yeah, I don't believe in him either.

Nether do I, it's purely a hypothetical theological exercise; I want to see how people feel about Judas' actions.

Suicide isn't an unforgivable sin though. Most people when considering suicide are not in the right state of mind to be weighing all the options and such.
It may not be technically unforgivable, but it is damned hard to sincerely demonstrate contrition or seek absolution while you're bleeding all over the place (or hanging from a noose, or passed out on pills, whatever). I think Catholicism might give you a pass if you were completely insane at the time, but the Pope wasn't around at the time.
So, Judas is in Hell with the other suicides.

On a sort of side note, the title of this thread would have been much better if it said "Burning up in Hell? Partying down in Heaven?" You gotta work those puns in wherever they fit if you want to hold people's attention.

I'd like to ignore the question and recommend a tangentially related short story by Borges, "Three Versions of Judas" (an excerpt of which is here (http://www.hccp.org/borges-judas.html)).

On a side note, Judas has got to be the world's worst D&D player. He betrayed Christ for a mere 3 GP.

There's no such place as Hell. Judas is in Detroit.

this post is an oxymoron.

Jesus Christ waited. The halo above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There was sin in the world. He didn't see it, but had expected it now for years. His warnings to his 12 disciples were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.Jesus had been a Messiah for thirty-three years. When he was young he taught in the temple and he said to God "I want to be th Saviour daddy"God said "No! You will BE CRUCIFIED BY ROMANS" There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in Jerusalem he knew there was sins."This is my beloved Son" God crackered. "In who I am well pleased!" So Jesus gotted the Holy Spirit and performed miracles."HE GOING TO SAVE US" said the disciples"We will crucify him" said the Pharisees and took him to pilate. But then Pilate found no fault with him and was not able to kill."We must kill him for blaspheming God" the Jews shouted.Jesus said "No, Jews. I am the Son of God."And then Jesus was crucified.

Suicide isn't an unforgivable sin though. Most people when considering suicide are not in the right state of mind to be weighing all the options and such. That being said, Jesus said that there was only one unforgivable sin: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, or in other words, dying with out repenting.


To back me up:

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=228

your link does not back up your proposition.

Jesus Christ waited. The halo above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There was sin in the world. He didn't see it, but had expected it now for years. His warnings to his 12 disciples were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.Jesus had been a Messiah for thirty-three years. When he was young he taught in the temple and he said to God "I want to be th Saviour daddy"God said "No! You will BE CRUCIFIED BY ROMANS" There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in Jerusalem he knew there was sins."This is my beloved Son" God crackered. "In who I am well pleased!" So Jesus gotted the Holy Spirit and performed miracles."HE GOING TO SAVE US" said the disciples"We will crucify him" said the Pharisees and took him to pilate. But then Pilate found no fault with him and was not able to kill."We must kill him for blaspheming God" the Jews shouted.Jesus said "No, Jews. I am the Son of God."And then Jesus was crucified.

One day I was walking through the woods. I look up at the sky and say to my father, "I want to be on one of the rocket ships!"
And he says, "No! You will be kill by demons!"
Years later I go into space on a rocket ship and the radio says, "You must kill the demons!" So I get my plasma gun and blew up a wall.
And the demons all say , "Omg! He going to kill us!"
So the Cyber Demon says, "Don't worry! I blow up him with my rocket launcher arm thing!"
The Cyber Demon try to blew me up, so I plasmaed him but the foof fall down, so I can't kill him, but I say, "I must kill the demons!"
And the radio says, "No! You are the demon!"
And then I was a zombie.

One day I was walking through the woods. I look up at the sky and say to my father, "I want to be on one of the rocket ships!"
And he says, "No! You will be kill by demons!"
Years later I go into space on a rocket ship and the radio says, "You must kill the demons!" So I get my plasma gun and blew up a wall.
And the demons all say , "Omg! He going to kill us!"
So the Cyber Demon says, "Don't worry! I blow up him with my rocket launcher arm thing!"
The Cyber Demon try to blew me up, so I plasmaed him but the foof fall down, so I can't kill him, but I say, "I must kill the demons!"
And the radio says, "No! You are the demon!"
And then I was a zombie.

Your link does not back up your proposition.

Your link does not back up your proposition.

:) Win

spoiler alert: judas goes to heaven, jesus is still trapped in the tomb

:) Win

Your link doesn't either. ;)

spoiler alert: judas goes to heaven, jesus is still trapped in the tomb

Well, THANKS A LOT! *Tosses the book down in disgust*

One day I was walking through the woods. I look up at the sky and say to my father, "I want to be on one of the rocket ships!"
And he says, "No! You will be kill by demons!"
Years later I go into space on a rocket ship and the radio says, "You must kill the demons!" So I get my plasma gun and blew up a wall.
And the demons all say , "Omg! He going to kill us!"
So the Cyber Demon says, "Don't worry! I blow up him with my rocket launcher arm thing!"
The Cyber Demon try to blew me up, so I plasmaed him but the foof fall down, so I can't kill him, but I say, "I must kill the demons!"
And the radio says, "No! You are the demon!"
And then I was a zombie.

Since I've been soundly beaten, I'll just post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQIx5jiTsg

Also, this thread reminds of Moral Orel. What a fantastic show.

Your link doesn't either. ;)

Damn. :(

Since I've been soundly beaten, I'll just post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQIx5jiTsg

Also, this thread reminds of Moral Orel. What a fantastic show.

Your link does not...

It got old, didn't it? Damn, I never know when to stop! :(

spoiler alert: judas goes to heaven, jesus is still trapped in the tomb

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF *throws book out window*






I bet they'll change it in film, however?

Your link does not back up your proposition.

link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ar_K7rWGuQ&feature=related)

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF *throws book out window*






I bet they'll change it in film, however?

Totally. I heard the movie will be directed by Yoko Ono.

Since I've been soundly beaten, I'll just post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQIx5jiTsg

Also, this thread reminds of Moral Orel. What a fantastic show.

I can't believe someone fucking got that....

Since I've been soundly beaten, I'll just post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQIx5jiTsg

Also, this thread reminds of Moral Orel. What a fantastic show.

That scared me.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF *throws book out window*






I bet they'll change it in film, however?

In the MMO, it's a 50 man raid to free Jesus.

You get a free t-shirt and everything.

link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ar_K7rWGuQ&feature=related)

Proposition. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008))

And now I'm sad. :(

Dante says the devil's gnawing at his brains or something, doesn't he?

Personally, I always thought Judas was treated unfairly and very misunderstood. But that's probably because my only Christian education was watching "Jesus Christ Superstar".

Dante says the devil's gnawing at his brains or something, doesn't he?

Personally, I always thought Judas was treated unfairly and very misunderstood. But that's probably because my only Christian education was watching "Jesus Christ Superstar".

There's good reason the Gospel of Judas isn't in the bible.

There's good reason the Gospel of Judas isn't in the bible.

Namely: "It's big and boring enough as it is!"

Personally, I always thought Judas was treated unfairly and very misunderstood. But that's probably because my only Christian education was watching "Jesus Christ Superstar".

That's all you need for learning. :p

Dante says the devil's gnawing at his brains or something, doesn't he?

Judas, Brutus, and Cassius.

Did he repent?

Yes he did, IIRC he gace back the silver and then hanged himself over his actions. He would have been forgiven anyway and as somebody said Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him, despite all that Jesus would have forgiven him for his actions.

Actually there is a Hell, a couple hours drive from Detroit, too.

Detroit is Hell. Duh!

I sent him to the supermarket, we're out of milk.

One day I was walking through the woods. I look up at the sky and say to my father, "I want to be on one of the rocket ships!"
And he says, "No! You will be kill by demons!"
Years later I go into space on a rocket ship and the radio says, "You must kill the demons!" So I get my plasma gun and blew up a wall.
And the demons all say , "Omg! He going to kill us!"
So the Cyber Demon says, "Don't worry! I blow up him with my rocket launcher arm thing!"
The Cyber Demon try to blew me up, so I plasmaed him but the foof fall down, so I can't kill him, but I say, "I must kill the demons!"
And the radio says, "No! You are the demon!"
And then I was a zombie.

So....the Demon was a Great Unclean One? Nurgle's rot ftw!

I can't believe someone fucking got that....

Yeah, I tried to take it in another direction, but now that I see your link, I see I fail.

1. Reagan isn't in Hell.
2. Judas commited suicide, he went to Hell.
3. Betrayal might have been part of the plan, so he would have gone to heaven if he didn't kill himself.

Probably in heaven. He was just a pawn in the endgame, checking the King, who somehow managed to get checkmated and still continue with the game.

...

I hate playing chess with God. :D

I say Judas died and was reincarnated as Joe Lieberman.

Namely: "It's big and boring enough as it is!"

I second this.

1. Reagan isn't in Hell

prove it

I hate playing chess with God. :D

It is rather hard to play against a guy who knows the future.

prove itProve that he is.

It is rather hard to play against a guy who knows the future.

And knows what you're going to do next.

Me:"Hmmm...." *Is about to pick up the piece*
God:"Checkmate."
Me:"I wish you'd stop doing that."

Prove that he is.

if there were a hell, reagan would be the sort of person in it. but since there isn't, i cannot. i suspect this isn't the same reason you would use to deny it though.

I say Judas died and was reincarnated as Joe Lieberman.

And knows what you're going to do next.

Me:"Hmmm...." *Is about to pick up the piece*
God:"Checkmate."
Me:"I wish you'd stop doing that."


I cant decide which I should sig.

all of the principals in anything that took place that long ago, have very likely lived multiple lives on other worlds since.

and the four guys who know the guy and could write about it, just judging by the amount of hyperbole they used, seem very likely to have told a very slanted story.

now i'm not saying the guy they knew wasn't a good guy, or that their descriptions of the last three years of his life are neccessarily falsehoods or entire fabrications, but the only incident mentioned in the entire previous 30 years, other then the unusual circumstances surrounding his birth, and that by only one of them, suggests, though is by no means conclusive, that from puberty to age 30, he might well have been something of a che guavaera.

it is entirely possible for the colonial roman government to have had more, better, or at least entirely other reasons for their paranoia of his charismatic leadership, then the accounts given would seem to indicate.

as for poor judas, how many of us can honestly say we wouldn't squeel on someone if it was our own survival at stake?

i don't think the accounts give adiquite evidence to judge fairly whatever the realities 'on the ground' there, might actually have been.

Judas, the dude who gave up Jesus to the Romans in the Bible.

Assuming the Christian version of reality is true, if Judas burning in hell for his actions? Or is Jesus and Judas best buddies hangin' up in Heaven?

Heh. Nice question.
Dante Alighieri places Judas in the nethermost pit of hell - gnawed upon by one of Lucifer's mouths, together with Brutus and Cassius: that is, the responsibles of the most heinous treasons (against God and against the State). This reflects the medieval view on Judas.
Still, there is a conflict between the "infinite love and mercy" of God, and the liberum arbitrium (catholic theology). That is, Judas freely chose a path leading away from God and salvation: but are God's love and mercy truly infinite if he cannot forgive Judas (or even Lucifer) for abusing his freedom of choice? And do humans have truly freedom of choice if they get pardoned and ultimately sent to Heaven, no matter what they did?
Of course, if we accept the servum arbitrium hypotesis (lutheran/calvinist theology), the treason of Judas was instrumental into making the supreme moment of Jesus' life possible (death and resurrection => agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi => sacrifice of God for mankind). Hence, in this case, Judas sacrificed himself to make salvation possible for all mankind, that is a fundamental part of God's plan. Can be "part of the plan" of a good God sending someone to Hell?
The Gospels also tell that Jesus knew that he was going to be betrayed (you know, that all-knowing sort of thing), so we could assume if he didn't want to be betrayed, he could have prevented that.

Basically, all boils down to one's own opinions about liberum arbitrium vs servum arbitrium, and about the magnitude of God's love and mercy.
As an atheist, I am possibily the worst judge of such opinions, so I won't take a side.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF *throws book out window*

I bet they'll change it in film, however?

And then they will make a musical about it.

Oh wait

*Starts singing Blood money*

Probably in heaven. He was just a pawn in the endgame, checking the King, who somehow managed to get checkmated and still continue with the game.

...

I hate playing chess with God. :D

Better than playing against Death

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flcv_TnH7Mk

And knows what you're going to do next.

Me:"Hmmm...." *Is about to pick up the piece*
God:"Checkmate."
Me:"I wish you'd stop doing that."

Gold

He's in Limbo. Period. I think God is waiting until Doom's Day to send him to burn down in hell with the rest of sinners.

I sound like a Christian. :eek:

He's in Limbo. Period. I think God is waiting until Doom's Day to send him to burn down in hell with the rest of sinners.

I sound like a Christian. :eek:

The Spanish Inquisition passes judgement again.

So why does God not forgive Satan?

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHGOl-jfUK0&feature=related

Their chief weapon is SURPRISE. I bet you didn't expect that.

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHGOl-jfUK0&feature=related

Their chief weapon is SURPRISE. I bet you didn't expect that.

I is unexpected?!:eek:

:D

The Spanish Inquisition passes judgement again.

Imma pass judgment on you, right now. You pass. Come and burn in hell with all of us. It's more fun.:D

Imma pass judgment on you, right now. You pass. Come and burn in hell with all of us. It's more fun.:D

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=0xNin48rF7w

The bit I want you to see starts at about 6:17 but it confirms with what you're talking about :D

It was actually the story of Judas that got me thinking about theological fatalism. If Jesus knew infallibly that Judas would betray him, then Judas' actions would have been predetermined, and not a product of his free will. If Judas didn't do it out of his own free will, is it a sin?

Hmmm.... I think Mel Gibson should've made a sequel to the Passion of the Christ. Would've answered this question.

Judas is in heaven. The whole Christian religion owes a lot to him. Besides, Jesus knew he was going to betray him.

One day I was walking through the woods. I look up at the sky and say to my father, "I want to be on one of the rocket ships!"
And he says, "No! You will be kill by demons!"
Years later I go into space on a rocket ship and the radio says, "You must kill the demons!" So I get my plasma gun and blew up a wall.
And the demons all say , "Omg! He going to kill us!"
So the Cyber Demon says, "Don't worry! I blow up him with my rocket launcher arm thing!"
The Cyber Demon try to blew me up, so I plasmaed him but the foof fall down, so I can't kill him, but I say, "I must kill the demons!"
And the radio says, "No! You are the demon!"
And then I was a zombie.
+
spoiler alert: judas goes to heaven, jesus is still trapped in the tomb
Page 2 winners.

Also, this thread reminds of Moral Orel. What a fantastic show.

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh!
:hail:

So much, so much in the way of good quotes. So, so many.

There's good reason the Gospel of Judas isn't in the bible.
+
Namely: "It's big and boring enough as it is!"

Page 4 winners. :)

Actually there is a Hell, a couple hours drive from Detroit, too.And Grand Cayman.
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/00/19/ef/15/hell-grand-cayman-island.jpg
+
http://z.about.com/d/cruises/1/0/2/x/1/grandcayman003.jpg
+
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/92db7234-dc8a-4bc5-9b23-a770ba2df685.jpg

So why does God not forgive Satan?
To quote Scott ... from whomever he stole it from ...
"To truly hate one must have first truly loved."
Maybe Satan touched God in the one way no one else could. Scary touching.

Heaven, since he was a part of Baby J's Master Plan after all.

Not to mention would anyone besides Mel Gibson call Jews 'Devil Worshippers'?

Not to mention would anyone besides Mel Gibson call Jews 'Devil Worshippers'?Cartman might've. I've kinda lost track of that series. *shrug*

Page 4 winners. :)

*To the sound of "we are the champions"*

I'M A WINNER! I WIN!!! I'M A WINNER!

*Starts making out with a hot chick that supported him all through his running-climbing of stairs and after beating up the other (black, Russian or jock, usually, as per these movies) guy*