NationStates Jolt Archive

I think yes, how about you? Poll to come.

EDIT: in the primaries, I mean.

I sincerely hope not. The Republicans need to run someone who actually has a chance against Obama.

Will Palin run in 2012?
depends, but the real question is how far will she run?

Primaries or general?

Primaries yes, won't win the nominatin.

Palin's been demonized too badly to run in 2012. IMHO, the Republicans should step back and NOT offer a 'sacrifice candidate' in 2012 at all-just let the Dems take the blame for a while without the convenient straw men.

I really like Palin and sure do hope she runs!


RUNNED BY PALIN POWER!

Frankly, I think she might have enough trouble getting reelected as Governor.

I find it very unlikely, even she must know that she would have zero chance of winning, even the republicans hate her.

Who knows, a lot can happen in 4 years.

From

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2423236,00.html


Sixty-nine percent of Republican voters say Alaska Governor Sarah Palin helped John McCain's bid for the presidency, even as news reports surface that some McCain staffers think she was a liability.

This is according to a report published by Rasmussen Reports, an electronic media company which specialises in opinion polling information.

Only 20% of GOP voters said Palin hurt the party's ticket, according the Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Six percent said she had no impact, and five percent were undecided.

Ninety-one percent of Republicans had a favourable view of Palin, including 65% who said their view is Very Favourable. Only eight percent had an unfavourable view of her.

When asked to choose among some of the GOP's top names for their choice for the party's 2012 presidential nominee, 64% said Palin. The next closest contenders were two former governors and unsuccessful challengers for the presidential nomination this year - Mike Huckabee of Arkansas with 12% support and Mitt Romney of Massachusetts with 11%.

I'd say she has a shot.

And if not, the alternative at this point seems to be Huckabee.

Frankly, I think she might have enough trouble getting reelected as Governor.

Yeah, that 80% approval rating is a big red flag :rolleyes:

I really like Palin and sure do hope she runs!


RUNNED BY PALIN POWER!

Don't you mean run by?

Actually, I heard that her approval rating had gone down throughout the campaign, and that was before "Troopergate".:rolleyes:

Then again, Alaskans love their corrupt politicians.

even the republicans hate her.

this isn't entirely true. the base still loves her. the base actually voted for her rather than mccain. but the base is fucking stupid. so it all depends on the fallout of the republican civil war.

Depends on if the Republicans move even further to tight right, or if some moderates manage to kick some sense back into the party.

I think Jeb Bush will run in 2012. Because, I heard that if three members of the same family get elected US prez, the world will end, and it's expected to end Dec. 21st, 2012.

:D

I think Jeb Bush will run in 2012. Because, I heard that if three members of the same family get elected US prez, the world will end, and it's expected to end Dec. 21st, 2012.

:D

Jeb Bush being elected?

why does the phrase "A snowballs chance in Hell" come to mind?

now a race between Chelse Clinton and Jenna Bush...

Palin was the VP to a sacrifice candidate-however, given the incredibly close margins of the popular vote between a sacrifice candidate and the Democratic Party "Great White Hope", I shouldn't rule out a future run.

Palin's been demonized too badly to run in 2012. IMHO, the Republicans should step back and NOT offer a 'sacrifice candidate' in 2012 at all-just let the Dems take the blame for a while without the convenient straw men.

"Demonized?" By whom? The dishonest liberal media? Sexist Donkocrats? Hard-core minions of the Dark Lord? Please.

I campaigned heavily for McCain, and from my personal experience I can state that Gov. Palin was universally respected and admired by every volunteer I worked with, as well as almost every Repubican voter I contacted. The DLM can always conjure up some disgruntled RINOs and point to them as representative of the opinion of grass-roots Republicans, but such reports are merely more lies by the Dark Lord's Ministry of Truth.

My advice to Gov. Palin (and Bobby Jindal for that matter, the two of them would make a GREAT ticket) would be to follow Ronald Reagan's example and start preparing and publishing pieces stating her views on various national and international developments. President Reagan used to write columns for newspapers and give regular talks after he retired as Governor of California (but no reason to wait until then). She should also give periodic speeches and talks at various functions and at friendly forums. This way, she will further develop her expertise on the issues of the day, as well as keeping her name in front of the public, not least as a reminder of what an idiotic mistake so many of them made this year. By 2011 (if the USSA hasn't been imposed on us by then), she'll have three more years of executive experience and a large body of work on record.

"Demonized?" By whom? The dishonest liberal media? Sexist Donkocrats? Hard-core minions of the Dark Lord? Please.

I campaigned heavily for McCain, and from my personal experience I can state that Gov. Palin was universally respected and admired by every volunteer I worked with, as well as almost every Repubican voter I contacted. The DLM can always conjure up some disgruntled RINOs and point to them as representative of the opinion of grass-roots Republicans, but such reports are merely more lies by the Dark Lord's Ministry of Truth.

My advice to Gov. Palin (and Bobby Jindal for that matter, the two of them would make a GREAT ticket) would be to follow Ronald Reagan's example and start preparing and publishing pieces stating her views on various national and international developments. President Reagan used to write columns for newspapers and give regular talks after he retired as Governor of California (but no reason to wait until then). She should also give periodic speeches and talks at various functions and at friendly forums. This way, she will further develop her expertise on the issues of the day, as well as keeping her name in front of the public, not least as a reminder of what an idiotic mistake so many of them made this year. By 2011 (if the USSA hasn't been imposed on us by then), she'll have three more years of executive experience and a large body of work on record.


and reign her hubby in. some of the reports from the Troopergate investigations hinted that her dear hubby had too much access to Alaska's State Government personnell.

"Demonized?" By whom? The dishonest liberal media? Sexist Donkocrats? Hard-core minions of the Dark Lord? Please.

I campaigned heavily for McCain, and from my personal experience I can state that Gov. Palin was universally respected and admired by every volunteer I worked with, as well as almost every Repubican voter I contacted. The DLM can always conjure up some disgruntled RINOs and point to them as representative of the opinion of grass-roots Republicans, but such reports are merely more lies by the Dark Lord's Ministry of Truth.

My advice to Gov. Palin (and Bobby Jindal for that matter, the two of them would make a GREAT ticket) would be to follow Ronald Reagan's example and start preparing and publishing pieces stating her views on various national and international developments. President Reagan used to write columns for newspapers and give regular talks after he retired as Governor of California (but no reason to wait until then). She should also give periodic speeches and talks at various functions and at friendly forums. This way, she will further develop her expertise on the issues of the day, as well as keeping her name in front of the public, not least as a reminder of what an idiotic mistake so many of them made this year. By 2011 (if the USSA hasn't been imposed on us by then), she'll have three more years of executive experience and a large body of work on record.
You forget one thing:

Palin is NOT Reagan by ANY means.

Oh God...I hope not. From what I hear, this woman is dimmer than a 1 watt bulb....

You forget one thing:

Palin is NOT Reagan by ANY means.
QTF.....

Among various differences Reagan was a uniter, of both his party and of our nation, while Palin was/is a divider of her party and our nation.

Reagan uniting the nation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/ElectoralCollege1980-Large.png/800px-ElectoralCollege1980-Large.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/ElectoralCollege1984.svg/350px-ElectoralCollege1984.svg.png

God, that's beautiful.:)

Palin uniting the nation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6f/Current_2008_US_Electoral_College_Polling_Map.PNG/800px-Current_2008_US_Electoral_College_Polling_Map.PNG

Depends on if the Republicans move even further to tight right, or if some moderates manage to kick some sense back into the party.

the latter seems doubtful, since the non-crazy right is apparently ridiculously outnumbered within the conservative coalition, and they have unleashed a monster beyond their control. all prominent public moves towards sanity result in death threats at this point.

She will run, and will do about as well as Tom Tancredo.

Who?

My advice to Gov. Palin (and Bobby Jindal for that matter, the two of them would make a GREAT ticket) would be to follow Ronald Reagan's example and start preparing and publishing pieces stating her views on various national and international developments. President Reagan used to write columns for newspapers and give regular talks after he retired as Governor of California (but no reason to wait until then). She should also give periodic speeches and talks at various functions and at friendly forums. This way, she will further develop her expertise on the issues of the day, as well as keeping her name in front of the public, not least as a reminder of what an idiotic mistake so many of them made this year. By 2011 (if the USSA hasn't been imposed on us by then), she'll have three more years of executive experience and a large body of work on record.

Yes, because I'm quite certain that the American public will be fascinated about her ideas on dinosaur/human co-existence, not to mention on the members of NAFTA or the issues facing the Country of Africa. . . . .

QTF.....

Among various differences Reagan was a uniter, of both his party and of our nation, while Palin was/is a divider of her party and our nation.

except that Palin was running for VP while Reagan was running for Pres. so to call HER a divider when she was second fiddle is rather misleading.

however, alot can happen in 4 years.

"Demonized?" By whom? The dishonest liberal media? Sexist Donkocrats? Hard-core minions of the Dark Lord? Please.

Which category do Christopher Buckley, Peggy Noonan, Ben Stein, George Will, Kathleen Parker, David Frum, Charles Krauthammer, David Brooks, Linoln Chafee, and Chuck Hagel fall into?

She will run, and will do about as well as Tom Tancredo.

So, who is Tom Tancredo?

I'd say she has a shot.

And if not, the alternative at this point seems to be Huckabee.

There are some young Senators and Representatives on the Repub side who probably wouldn't mind being drafted. Even a few governors. But Palin has serious Evangelical cred, and if the Repubs find they actually need social conservatives in order to get elected, she's their woman. Terrifying, isn't it?

What the Republican need to do is to get the Libertarians, the "True" Conservative and the Neo-Cons all together on the same page and same team for 2012.

Yea...Good luck on that happening. *laughs*

So, who is Tom Tancredo?

Batshit crazy Repub from Colorado. Blames all the country's woes on immigrants. Well, mostly illegals, but the undertone is 'those brown people are stealing jobs that belong to white folk!' He also tried to scuttle plans for the Sept 11 memorial in Pennsylvania because it was in a crescent shape. He thought it was Islamic.

So, who is Tom Tancredo?

One of the 2008 republican candidates. He did so poorly that he dropped out before even the first primary, Iowa.

QTF.....
...snip...

God, that's beautiful.:)

Palin uniting the nation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6f/Current_2008_US_Electoral_College_Polling_Map.PNG/800px-Current_2008_US_Electoral_College_Polling_Map.PNGActually, Indiana went blue I believe, as well as one elector from Nebraska. Just a little more salt in the wound.

Batshit crazy Repub from Colorado. Blames all the country's woes on immigrants. Well, mostly illegals, but the undertone is 'those brown people are stealing jobs that belong to white folk!' He also tried to scuttle plans for the Sept 11 memorial in Pennsylvania because it was in a crescent shape. He thought it was Islamic.

Wow... USA have some weird politicians lol.

What the Republican need to do is to get the Libertarians, the "True" Conservative and the Neo-Cons all together on the same page and same team for 2012.

Yea...Good luck on that happening. *laughs*

And if even if they run a libertarian, true conservative candidate (i.e. small government economic conservative) with a neonconservative foreign policy, the Christian Right will flip out and form a Third Party.

And if even if they run a libertarian, true conservative candidate (i.e. small government economic conservative) with a neonconservative foreign policy, the Christian Right will flip out and form a Third Party.

So.....there's really no downside, is there?

Wow... USA have some weird politicians lol.

Well, we don't exactly have a Monster Raving Loony Party or anything, but some of the Repubs are good for a laugh. Or a LOLsob, depending on what they're saying...

What the Republican need to do is to get the Libertarians

What do the Libertarians stand for? Are the right wing or what?

A lot is going to happen in four years. It's really impossible to say.

If the comparison of Obama to Kennedy is apt, the GOP will come up with someone like Goldwater ... and lose.

QTF.....

Among various differences Reagan was a uniter, of both his party and of our nation, while Palin was/is a divider of her party and our nation.

Reagan uniting the nation:

*snip 1980 and 84maps*

God, that's beautiful.:)

Palin uniting the nation:

*snip 2008 map*



Haha. Ha. Very funny.

Palin wasn't the candidate. Reagan united the nation against a very unpopular administration. By comparison, Obama didn't do that -- though his popular vote was higher against a very unpopular administration.

You're comparing apples with oranges.

Actually, Indiana went blue I believe, as well as one elector from Nebraska. Just a little more salt in the wound.

And Nevada went for Obama by +12, not +5. I don't know how accurate that map is.

What do the Libertarians stand for? Are the right wing or what?

It varies. As for me, I am a Libertarian and I lean right on economic issues and left on social issues.

Palin wasn't the candidate. Reagan united the nation against a very unpopular administration. By comparison, Obama didn't do that -- though his popular vote was higher.

Obama didn't unite people against an unpopular administration? What planet, exactly, have you been watching the election returns from, pray tell?

Libertarians don't fit the left/right spectrum,

left = business restrictions, social freedom
right = business freedom, social restrictions
libertarian = social freedom, business freedom.

So if you have to stick them to the left/right spectrum, they'd be "centrist" (even though they aren't).

Libertarians don't fit the left/right spectrum,

left = business restrictions, social freedom
right = business freedom, social restrictions
libertarian = social freedom, business freedom.

So if you have to stick them to the left/right spectrum, they'd be "centrist" (even though they aren't).

Which is why there is such a thing as a libertarian Democrat. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Democrat)

I wouldn't vote for her. And I'd donate money to oppose a nightmare ticket, such as (for example) Huckabee/Palin.

And Nevada went for Obama by +12, not +5. I don't know how accurate that map is.

it's a pre-election polling map

Well, we don't exactly have a Monster Raving Loony Party or anything, but some of the Repubs are good for a laugh. Or a LOLsob, depending on what they're saying...

i'll find them funnier when they are chased from the halls of power, their leaders brought up on charges, and their physical infrastructure repossessed after going completely bankrupt. they may not be the monster raving loony party, but they are a party run by monsters and supported by raving loonies.

Obama didn't unite people against an unpopular administration? What planet, exactly, have you been watching the election returns from, pray tell?

Hi, Kbrook. Good to see you back.

The Atlantean Isles was comparing Reagan's win to McCain's loss
And calling McCain's loss Palin's.

The only part of TAI's comparison which made any sense was the uniting of "people" across states. Reagan's popular vote was lower than Obama's, yet he won many more electoral votes and (as the maps showed) many more states by a simple count.

TAI, you probably could make some kind of case. But you'd have to go back to before Palin was chosen as running-mate, and see how the choice affected the pre-polling map.

How would you do that? Go over to the Polls Pundits and Popcorn thread and use the search function. Then just come back and say whatever Jocabia said :D

IF
in 2012 that shes still a MILF, then yes

I would both vote for that and hit that till she bleeds

if she gets too unattractive, then no, ill vote for the next piece of political ass that looks like its worth fapping
as long as Palin makes the Missile go to launch position, then shes good, when shes ugly, the next piece of ass gets the ballot

[disclaimer: I am drunk as s*** when i posted this, and I have spent 3x longer to make this statement legit as I am in the land of Boris Yeltsin when i typed this so be happy i spent the time to spellcheck it berfore i hit "submit reply"]

If she runs I suspect it will destroy the Republican party in the process as undecided voters are turned away in droves by crazy policies like Creationism in Schools

Remember early 2007? Congress still had that 'new session smell,' Rumsfeld suddenly had to update his resume, and a small army of presidential hopefuls started to gather on cable news networks?

Back then, everyone thought the candidates would be a showdown between Hillary "I'm totally not Bill, but remember how awesome things were with Bill?" Clinton and Rudy "I was the Mayor of 9/11!" Guliani.

Remember that? Everyone was so sure that was what it was going to be. Some people even went out and pre-bought their ridiculous t-shirts.

How'd that turn out? Huh?

For that matter, remember after the 2000 election, how the Democratic party was supposed to be dead in the water? And how the 2004 election was supposed to seal that deal? How the party would just eat itself and slide into irrelevance? Remember that? How long did that last? Two whole years?

Yeah.

Obama hasn't even been inaugurated yet. He's had exactly one press conference since being elected.

2012, long way away.

We might as well predict that the Geico Gecko will be the Republican candidate (I hear he fakes the accent...).

For the record, Reagan was an actor, not a politician. Sure, he could make speeches, but aside from that...

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4016/ronaldreagan235adaw7.png

For the record, Reagan was an actor, not a politician. Sure, he could make speeches, but aside from that...

Ok, is it me or did that image make no sense?

IF
in 2012 that shes still a MILF, then yes

I would both vote for that and hit that till she bleeds

if she gets too unattractive, then no, ill vote for the next piece of political ass that looks like its worth fapping
as long as Palin makes the Missile go to launch position, then shes good, when shes ugly, the next piece of ass gets the ballot

[disclaimer: I am drunk as s*** when i posted this, and I have spent 3x longer to make this statement legit as I am in the land of Boris Yeltsin when i typed this so be happy i spent the time to spellcheck it berfore i hit "submit reply"]

:headbang:

When you sober up, go deregister yourself to vote. You don't seem to be able to distinguish between the government of your country and a beauty pageant.

Come to think of it, you might not be qualified to judge a beauty pageant either. What with the catcalls from the bench and vomiting on yourself.

:headbang:

When you sober up, go deregister yourself to vote. You don't seem to be able to distinguish between the government of your country and a beauty pageant.

Come to think of it, you might not be qualified to judge a beauty pageant either. What with the catcalls from the bench and vomiting on yourself.

To be fair, some people do elect their candidates based on how well they look, or how "Presidential" they look. Which is why it's hard for anyone under 6 feet to get elected. :(

Ok, is it me or did that image make no sense?

It indicates how he's good at public speaking but sucks at everything else.

It indicates how he's good at public speaking but sucks at everything else.

Ahh...why didn't you just say that?

:headbang:

When you sober up, go deregister yourself to vote. You don't seem to be able to distinguish between the government of your country and a beauty pageant.

Come to think of it, you might not be qualified to judge a beauty pageant either. What with the catcalls from the bench and vomiting on yourself.

He can't vote in U.S. elections anyways...

To be fair, some people do elect their candidates based on how well they look, or how "Presidential" they look. Which is why it's hard for anyone under 6 feet to get elected. :(

I'll tell you what: you be fair, and I'll be the grumpy bugger.

Of course it's hard to get elected, with three people standing on you.

I did! With a picture!

I did! With a picture!

A picture you had to explain....

QTF.....

Among various differences Reagan was a uniter, of both his party and of our nation, while Palin was/is a divider of her party and our nation.

Reagan uniting the nation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/ElectoralCollege1980-Large.png/800px-ElectoralCollege1980-Large.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/ElectoralCollege1984.svg/350px-ElectoralCollege1984.svg.png

God, that's beautiful.:)
Ewww...Reagan!

Palin uniting the nation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6f/Current_2008_US_Electoral_College_Polling_Map.PNG/800px-Current_2008_US_Electoral_College_Polling_Map.PNG
That map's not quite right...why are Indiana and Missouri in the McCain corner?

EDITFU: Oh, duh, it's a polling map.
So, who is Tom Tancredo?

Batshit crazy Repub from Colorado. Blames all the country's woes on immigrants. Well, mostly illegals, but the undertone is 'those brown people are stealing jobs that belong to white folk!' He also tried to scuttle plans for the Sept 11 memorial in Pennsylvania because it was in a crescent shape. He thought it was Islamic.
Basically. I can further add that he was the representative of MY district, and a very bad one at that. He completely refused to listen to anything I had to say. I constructed NSG style argument after argument, and he was all "Bla-bla-bla gay marriage is special rights, immigrants are super evil Anti-Christ puzzle pieces, blah blah blah..."

Look for parallels with Geraldine Ferraro's 1984 run. The campaigns and issues are amazingly similar, including mild scandals, a problem husband, and a series of press gaffes. Then note that Ferraro failed to get reelected to the Senate not just once, but twice.

Palin has one window to get into national politics again, and that's via a special election to Ted Steven's seat. If Begich wins Alaska, I predict that Palin will have at least one significant primary challenger for the 2010 Governor's race, and has about even chances of winning the primary and getting reelected.

And if not, the alternative at this point seems to be Huckabee.
Remember your history. Nobody took Obama, or Carter, or Clinton seriously as candidates 4 years out, much less 2 years. Obama has defined an electoral strategy that we'll see again. The Republican nominee will be the one that mastered that system, and I'm betting it won't be any of the 2008 candidates.

Yeah, that 80% approval rating is a big red flag :rolleyes:

If Uncle Ted can be convicted of corruption and still get re-elected in Alaska, Caribou Barbie wouldn't have that much of a trouble either.

Fail.

Palin will make America great again!

This message is approved by the GOP. The poster is not responsible for any contents which may be obtuse or incorrect.

Hi, Kbrook. Good to see you back.

Erm... I honestly never thought I'd be memorable enough for anyone to welcome me back! Thanks, it's good to be back.

The Atlantean Isles was comparing Reagan's win to McCain's loss
And calling McCain's loss Palin's.

The only part of TAI's comparison which made any sense was the uniting of "people" across states. Reagan's popular vote was lower than Obama's, yet he won many more electoral votes and (as the maps showed) many more states by a simple count.

Ah. That... kind of makes sense...

Will she run in 2012? Probably. Will she run for President? Dunno.

Basically. I can further add that he was the representative of MY district, and a very bad one at that. He completely refused to listen to anything I had to say. I constructed NSG style argument after argument, and he was all "Bla-bla-bla gay marriage is special rights, immigrants are super evil Anti-Christ puzzle pieces, blah blah blah..."

At least I didn't live in his district in CO. Or in musgrave's, for that matter. Made me kind of sad that I didn't get to vote for either of their opponents.

"Demonized?" By whom? The dishonest liberal media? Sexist Donkocrats? Hard-core minions of the Dark Lord? Please.


BUWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! God, each time you post, you continue to get more uninformed.

Luckily youre the minority of this country.

I campaigned heavily for McCain, and from my personal experience I can state that Gov. Palin was universally respected and admired by every volunteer I worked with, as well as almost every Repubican voter I contacted. The DLM can always conjure up some disgruntled RINOs and point to them as representative of the opinion of grass-roots Republicans, but such reports are merely more lies by the Dark Lord's Ministry of Truth.


Yeah, Im really inclined to believe you NM. Real inclined.

Of course you like Palin. She actually makes you look informed.

My advice to Gov. Palin (and Bobby Jindal for that matter, the two of them would make a GREAT ticket) would be to follow Ronald Reagan's example and start preparing and publishing pieces stating her views on various national and international developments. President Reagan used to write columns for newspapers and give regular talks after he retired as Governor of California (but no reason to wait until then). She should also give periodic speeches and talks at various functions and at friendly forums. This way, she will further develop her expertise on the issues of the day, as well as keeping her name in front of the public, not least as a reminder of what an idiotic mistake so many of them made this year. By 2011 (if the USSA hasn't been imposed on us by then), she'll have three more years of executive experience and a large body of work on record.

Palin isnt Reagan. Reagan was at least smart and competent.


Palin will probably try for the primaries in 2012. And she will get creamed. Her Republican opponents will not be so nice about her abuse of power scandels and uninformed comments.

And they'll probably know Africa is a continent.

Palin isnt Reagan. Reagan was at least smart and competent.
Their names are a half-rhyme, though. Which is pretty important.

BUWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! God, each time you post, you continue to get more uninformed.

Luckily youre the minority of this country.

Really starting to wonder if New Mitanni =




http://www.americaslibrary.gov/assets/jb/nation/jb_nation_poe_1_e.jpg

Yeah, that 80% approval rating is a big red flag :rolleyes:

It's not 80% anymore. It's dropped significantly.

Really starting to wonder if New Mitanni =

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/assets/jb/nation/jb_nation_poe_1_e.jpg

No. Poe had talent, and contributed much to American literature. The only thing New Mitanni would have in common with Poe is if he were to turn up dead in a gutter.

if obama is weak she will run; if he isnt she wont.

she may not know much national stuff (now) but she is a smart politician.

but she is a smart politician.

Really? Really?!

Really? Really?!
yes really.

did you miss the way she electrified the republican base?

yes really.

did you miss the way she electrified the republican base?

I couldn't get pass her inane remarks.....or anything that she says....

I couldn't get pass her inane remarks.....or anything that she says....
what does that have to do with electrifying the republican base.

sure she was completely unqualfied this time around. its not like she had been running for the freaking job.

next time she runs she will know everything she needs to know and have her own opinions on every national issue.

yes really.

did you miss the way she electrified the republican base?

Did you miss the moronic things she said? You can be stupid and still electrify the republican base. As a matter of fact evidence appears to show that it helps.

I really do hope she runs, runs so far away, I hope she runs all night and day.

Did you miss the moronic things she said? You can be stupid and still electrify the republican base. As a matter of fact evidence appears to show that it helps.

I really do hope she runs, runs so far away, I hope she runs all night and day.

Depending upon who would be running against her I just might hope for her to run in 2012

My point all those pages back was that Reagan and Palin couldn't be more different.....

Palin has been nothing but divisive, she isn't a wonderful orator, she doesn't surround herself with super intelligent people, actually helped McCain to lose the election and does not bring a feeling of pride to Americans.....

Reagan, meanwhile, was a powerful orator who not only captured both Republicans and Democrats in this country, but captured the minds of many in Western, Central and Eastern Europe. He was a uniting factor in the Republican party that directly led to the Republican landslide victories of 1980 and 1984 and surrounded himself with super intelligent political and economic advisors.

I strongly dislike Palin as a politician in the Republican party and hope that she sticks to Alaska and doesn't get her religious conservative agenda into the Republican party that desperatly needs to seperate itself from that.

If she does strive to become a major player in the Republican party, I may have to get into politics sooner than I had orginally planned in order to try, as hard as I possibly can, to lead a Goldwater-esque countermovement in the Republican party for control of the future direction of the Republican ideology.

And sorry, I didn't realize that electoral map was incorrect when I posted it, but it just further proves my point.:p

Did you miss the moronic things she said? You can be stupid and still electrify the republican base. As a matter of fact evidence appears to show that it helps.

I really do hope she runs, runs so far away, I hope she runs all night and day.
yeah she was stupid this time.

she hadnt been running eh? she was dragged into the race with one day to get ready for it. go figure that she didnt know much

and yet she STILL brought an excitement to the republican ticket that had been utterly absent with mccain alone.

how much better will she do in 4 or 8 years when she has had a chance to form her own platform?

yeah she was stupid this time.

she hadnt been running eh? she was dragged into the race with one day to get ready for it. go figure that she didnt know much

and yet she STILL brought an excitement to the republican ticket that had been utterly absent with mccain alone.

how much better will she do in 4 or 8 years when she has had a chance to form her own platform?

You know what they say about First Impression though.

Jindal 2012

yeah she was stupid this time.

She's had forty years to educate herself. Four more isn't going to help much.

You know what they say about First Impression though.
yeah.

i dont know if its possible to come back from this failure.

not that i would ever want her to be president. *shudder*

its pretty rare to ever come back from a crushing failure to become president....at least nixon had lost to kennedy in a very close election... does anyone else come to mind?

yeah she was stupid this time.

she hadnt been running eh? she was dragged into the race with one day to get ready for it. go figure that she didnt know much

She didn't know a lot of things that I would expect a high school student (that's right, not graduate - STUDENT) to know. Even if she's able to fix that in the next four years I don't think I could consider her qualified for the job.

She's had forty years to educate herself. Four more isn't going to help much.
pfffft

do you think george bush knew anything before he ran for president? do you think ronald reagan did?

She didn't know a lot of things that I would expect a high school student (that's right, not graduate - STUDENT) to know. Even if she's able to fix that in the next four years I don't think I could consider her qualified for the job.
personality is more important than having learned those things later than she should have.

it depends on whether or not she continues to try to take the beauty and charisma shortcut. if she does her homework she could make a serious run.

Of course she'll run. She'll probably get a lot of votes too. But if she wins the nomination, it'll be the beginning of the end for the Republicans, who simply can't survive much longer if they decide they're going to be the party of hardcore social conservatism.

Which category do Christopher Buckley, Peggy Noonan, Ben Stein, George Will, Kathleen Parker, David Frum, Charles Krauthammer, David Brooks, Linoln Chafee, and Chuck Hagel fall into?

That's the "hardcore minions of the Dark Lord" category. :)

My point all those pages back was that Reagan and Palin couldn't be more different.....

Palin has been nothing but divisive, she isn't a wonderful orator, she doesn't surround herself with super intelligent people, actually helped McCain to lose the election and does not bring a feeling of pride to Americans.....
Your opinion. Clearly, Republicans think otherwise due to a few statistics stated earlier in this thread, of which a large majority of the core Republicans supported her. I normally vote Democrat, but I voted Republican this year, for reasons that won't go in this thread (as that isn't the topic at hand). I felt that Palin helped bring a very strong sense of pride to the country. My opinion.

Edit: Personally, I think a lot of the situations that occurred with Palin were blown clearly out of the water. I will agree she did not have the experience needed in the event that she were to become President (if something happened to McCain, God forbid); however, this bull being spread about her not knowing the countries in NAFTA and about Africa? Come on. I feel like people are taking advantage of her lack of experience.

Michael Palin will make America great again!

Fixed! :p

Personally, I think a lot of the situations that occurred with Palin were blown clearly out of the water. I will agree she did not have the experience needed in the event that she were to become President (if something happened to McCain, God forbid); however, this bull being spread about her not knowing the countries in NAFTA and about Africa? Come on. I feel like people are taking advantage of her lack of experience.

Not knowing that Africa is not a single country is not a lack of experience, it's a lack of grade school level geography!

Will Palin run? Sure, if someone's chasing her.

its pretty rare to ever come back from a crushing failure to become president....at least nixon had lost to kennedy in a very close election... does anyone else come to mind?
Not really, no, at least not in recent history. But, if you think about it, almost all the Presidents did suffer a defeat in their early electoral histories:

* Obama lost his 2000 House primary to Bobby Rush;
* Bush lost his '78 House election;
* Clinton lost his '80 governor reelection bid (there's a story about him lying on the floor kicking and screaming when he found out);
* Bush lost his '64 House election; he was also crushed by Reagan in the '80 primaries;
* Reagan lost in the '76 primaries;
* Carter lost the '66 governor's election;
* Ford...meh, ok, so it's not infallible. (But I do want to squeeze in a mention of LBJ's first Senate defeat.)

Maybe defeats early in a political career help forge a determination to succeed later on?

Will Palin run? Sure, if someone's chasing her.

*laughs*

*gives slice of cheesecake to Kat*

/thread

Looks like she's trying to. I expect she'll sink in the primaries. But, as others have said, it'll depend on the GOPs civil war.

Batshit crazy Repub from Colorado. Blames all the country's woes on immigrants. Well, mostly illegals, but the undertone is 'those brown people are stealing jobs that belong to white folk!' He also tried to scuttle plans for the Sept 11 memorial in Pennsylvania because it was in a crescent shape. He thought it was Islamic.

Don't forget he wanted to bomb Mecca. :eek:

What the Republican need to do is to get the Libertarians, the "True" Conservative and the Neo-Cons all together on the same page and same team for 2012.

Yea...Good luck on that happening. *laughs*

Almost. Lets see a clean sweep of both the Christofascists and the discredited Neocons, and return to the Goldwater GOP.

Well, we don't exactly have a Monster Raving Loony Party or anything, but some of the Repubs are good for a laugh. Or a LOLsob, depending on what they're saying...

Oh we've got some parties out there that are better - the MRLP doesn't really take themselves too seriously. The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party (http://www.nazi.org/), OTOH, maybe does...

What do the Libertarians stand for? Are the right wing or what?

Depends on whether you mean the "big L" or "small l" libertarians, and even then it's a mixed bag.

Big L, as in the Libertarian Party in the US, is mostly right wing. Small l can mean pretty much anything. For example, certain posters here who call themselves libertarian tend to have rather authoritarian views from what I can tell. (I'll avoid naming names. :wink:)

Originally the term was used in metaphysics. It was originally used in politics by the French Anachists in the 1880s. And then by the right in the US in the 1940s.

What it means to be a "libertarian" in a political sense is a contentious issue, especially among libertarians themselves. There is no single theory that can be safely identified as the libertarian theory, and probably no single principle or set of principles on which all libertarians can agree. Nevertheless, there is a certain family resemblance among libertarian theories that can serve as a framework for analysis. Although there is much disagreement about the details, libertarians are generally united by a rough agreement on a cluster of normative principles, empirical generalizations, and policy recommendations. Libertarians are committed to the belief that individuals, and not states or groups of any other kind, are both ontologically and normatively primary; that individuals have rights against certain kinds of forcible interference on the part of others; that liberty, understood as non-interference, is the only thing that can be legitimately demanded of others as a matter of legal or political right; that robust property rights and the economic liberty that follows from their consistent recognition are of central importance in respecting individual liberty; that social order is not at odds with but develops out of individual liberty; that the only proper use of coercion is defensive or to rectify an error; that governments are bound by essentially the same moral principles as individuals; and that most existing and historical governments have acted improperly insofar as they have utilized coercion for plunder, aggression, redistribution, and other purposes beyond the protection of individual liberty.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/l/libertar.htm

Note that the original, or left, libertarians included property/capitalism in that looting...

My current political belifes are closest to Libertarian Progressivism (http://www.democraticfreedomcaucus.org/dfc-platform/).

Libertarians don't fit the left/right spectrum,

left = business restrictions, social freedom
right = business freedom, social restrictions
libertarian = social freedom, business freedom.

So if you have to stick them to the left/right spectrum, they'd be "centrist" (even though they aren't).

Actually you have the left right scale a bit off there. The common current model is economic left/right + libertarian/authoritarian.


Erm... I honestly never thought I'd be memorable enough for anyone to welcome me back! Thanks, it's good to be back.

Well, the name rings a bell...

Oh we've got some parties out there that are better - the MRLP doesn't really take themselves too seriously. The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party (http://www.nazi.org/), OTOH, maybe does...

What's most frightening about groups like that is that you realize not all racists are stupid rednecks.

For comedic value, look at The Prohibition Party. (http://www.prohibition.org/)

Not really, no, at least not in recent history. But, if you think about it, almost all the Presidents did suffer a defeat in their early electoral histories:

* Obama lost his 2000 House primary to Bobby Rush;
* Bush lost his '78 House election;
* Clinton lost his '80 governor reelection bid (there's a story about him lying on the floor kicking and screaming when he found out);
* Bush lost his '64 House election; he was also crushed by Reagan in the '80 primaries;
* Reagan lost in the '76 primaries;
* Carter lost the '66 governor's election;
* Ford...meh, ok, so it's not infallible. (But I do want to squeeze in a mention of LBJ's first Senate defeat.)

Maybe defeats early in a political career help forge a determination to succeed later on?

There's truth here, but none of these were so nationwide and public as a failed presidential campaign. Politicians who are on the losing end of a presidential campaign can definitely carve out successful careers in Congress or in appointed positions, but recovering from a public defeat like a presidential campaign enough to be a viable candidate again is almost without precedent. Being a losing presidential or vice-presidential candidate comes close to completely destroying that candidate's White House aspirations.

Just look at John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Gore, Joe Liebermann, Bob Dole, Jack Kemp, Dan Quayle, Michael Dukakis, Lloyd Bentsen, Walter Mondale, Geraldine Ferraro, etc. etc. :)

edit: I purposely included Dole and Mondale, before questions are asked. Consider it commentary on my opinion of their viability their second times around.

Why did I read the thread title as "Will Palin ruin 2012?" :D

Not really, no, at least not in recent history. But, if you think about it, almost all the Presidents did suffer a defeat in their early electoral histories:

* Obama lost his 2000 House primary to Bobby Rush;
* Bush lost his '78 House election;
* Clinton lost his '80 governor reelection bid (there's a story about him lying on the floor kicking and screaming when he found out);
* Bush lost his '64 House election; he was also crushed by Reagan in the '80 primaries;
* Reagan lost in the '76 primaries;
* Carter lost the '66 governor's election;
* Ford...meh, ok, so it's not infallible. (But I do want to squeeze in a mention of LBJ's first Senate defeat.)

Maybe defeats early in a political career help forge a determination to succeed later on?

And lest we forget, Abe Lincoln!

Your opinion. Clearly, Republicans think otherwise due to a few statistics stated earlier in this thread, of which a large majority of the core Republicans supported her. I normally vote Democrat, but I voted Republican this year, for reasons that won't go in this thread (as that isn't the topic at hand). I felt that Palin helped bring a very strong sense of pride to the country. My opinion.
I also voted for her as in I voted for McCain Palin, but I think religious conservatism is one of the biggest reasons why the Republican party is falling out of place with many Americans, holds back technological and social progress and is viewed as a joke with many citizens of the world.

I feel like Palin is an unintelligent populist that gets votes because "she's like us". However, if one was to read up on the views of the founders who established our government as a Representative Democracy, they'd see that the founders believed that the matters of the national government were far too important for "common people" to deal with, hence the idea of representatives. Thus, it is the American idea of government that we vote and by doing so, entrust our voices into those who are smarter and more politically/economically knowledgable than us, so that they would better represent our wishes than we could.

I want my leaders to be better than me. That's why they are leading me. Because they are better suited to do the job. Political representation isn't about equality, nor should it be. It's about who is the smartest, the most ambitious and the best equipped to understand the issues of the day. For those very reasons, appealing to what Joe Sixpack thinks sounds only a little better than appealing to what Hollywood thinks.

I don't think that "Average Joe" should be leading policy in this country anymore than I believe "the workers" should be controlling the stakes of their companies.

Edit: Personally, I think a lot of the situations that occurred with Palin were blown clearly out of the water. I will agree she did not have the experience needed in the event that she were to become President (if something happened to McCain, God forbid); however, this bull being spread about her not knowing the countries in NAFTA and about Africa? Come on. I feel like people are taking advantage of her lack of experience.

She did not have the experience or the intelligent needed to become Vice President, either. People SHOULD take advantage of her lack of knowledge about the world we lead. If she can't take healthy criticism and opposition from her own citizens during a run for Vice President, how the hell can she be strong enough or intelligent enough to take on global climate change, rival nations, terrorist organizations, international capitalism and all around international diplomacy, in which the U.S. is exposed to quite a bit of criticism and opposition.

She is ill suited for the job, and her religious conservatism divides the country and is part of the Republican Ideology that should be booted out.

The Republican Ideology should stand for Freedom from Government. That means, directly, economic and social freedom. The government should not dicate, through the 'reasoning' of religion, how one is to live their personal life, unless it directly harms / affects others.

New York Magazine has an article about this: (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/11/about_2012_even_alaskans_are_s.html)
The statistics constantly touted by the McCain campaign to hype Palin’s popularity are months old; her approval rating has dropped to 61 percent, according to a Rasmussen poll released last week. Pretty good, but not good enough to allow Palin to glide through the mess she’s made of Alaska politics for another two years unscathed.

This is a good point. Palin may be popular with Republicans now, but she still has to be governor of Alaska for four more years if she wants to run again. If she tries to stay in the national spotlight, any problems she has in Alaska will be highlighted. And if she disappears, so do her chances in 2012. So my guess is she runs for Ted Stevens' seat.

Depends on if the Republicans move even further to tight right, or if some moderates manage to kick some sense back into the party.

Vervaria, they TRIED running "Moderates" in 1996, and in 2008. Review McCain's VOTING RECORD, and review his Time in the Senate. Same for Dole. Voters, given a choice between a Democrat who's a Democrat and Liberal, and a Republican who OUGHT to be A Democrat, and is liberal, will chose the guy who says "I'm A Democrat" for POTUS over the guy who ought to be a Democrat based on his record but is trying (and failing) to look Conservative.

The ONLY reason McCain got ANY republican votes, were two groups-

1. Liberal/Moderate republicans to whom Party comes First,
2. A few Conservatives hoping he'd stroke out or have a heart attack on January 22nd.

McCain hurt himself trying to look more Conservative/right-of-center than he really was, and in the process of trying to do that, he dragged Palin down with him (probably not his choice, for all his being a Liberal, McCain's still an honourable man, he doesn't tend to be a destruction-for-destruction's sake kind of guy).

"Moderate' in American politics tends to reflect "Undecided", indecisiveness tends to turn people off when they're looking for a POTUS. In campaigns where you have two indecisive men in the top spots (one democrat, one republican) people tend to lean toward the indecisive guy who looks and sounds more "Vital, healthy, and attractive".

That'd be Obama this year, and he was aided by the fact that while McCain was somewhat to the right of His Highness the Obamassiah, he is still to the left of most of his party, and not a small portion of hte Democratic Party as well.

Had Palin NOT accepted the VP slot this year, she'd have a chance in 2012, because unlike Democrats, Republicans don't forgive failure easily-and her affiliation with McCain puts the stink of failure on her reputation by association. This is visible in part through the energetic bashing she's getting from former McCain staffers hoping to deflect the blame for the failure of the campaign on the VP nominee-talking about her clothing allowance from the Party's coffers, for instance, an allowance pushed through because of the 'off the rack' nature of her normal wardrobe.
(apparently the Moderates in the party were offended first that she wasnt' glamourous, now they're offended because she took the budget they gave her, and split it between five people. Considering that she HAD to know she was in a losing campaign that only got a bump NEAR Obama's numbers AFTER she joined..? do the math.)

This election repudiated the idea that a Moderate Republican can be as attractive as a Moderate Democrat- people want their GOP to be Conservatives-and not just mouthing the words, but actually BEING conservatives, and they like their Democrats to be Moderate and good-looking. A good-looking moderate Democrat, in a year where the GOP's power-brokers have been fucking up by the numbers, was destined to win, no amount of "Moderateness" could have Saved McCain-he was the sacrifice the party made to avoid the fate of the Whigs, and that is all he was. McCain might have pulled better numbers running AS HIMSELF, but it's unlikely that the actual outcome would be any different, save that perhaps Obama would have won in battleground states by broader margins, or picked up a percentage point in "Red" states he didn't already have.

next time she runs she will know everything she needs to know and have her own opinions on every national issue.

Given that she reportedly refused briefings before going on interviews and public announcements, do you think her ego has been sufficiently downsized that she'd actually bother learning?

I should hope not, I honestly believe that woman is not all there.

She did not have the experience or the intelligent needed to become Vice President, either. People SHOULD take advantage of her lack of knowledge about the world we lead. If she can't take healthy criticism and opposition from her own citizens during a run for Vice President, how the hell can she be strong enough or intelligent enough to take on global climate change, rival nations, terrorist organizations, international capitalism and all around international diplomacy, in which the U.S. is exposed to quite a bit of criticism and opposition.

I'm speaking about actual issues, such as the Iraq war, American relations with Russia, various wars across the world, Iran, etc. Not trivial things such as the claim that she thought Africa was a single nation (or whatever it was), and drawing upon that to criticize her. Also, the phone call from 'Sarkozy"? An obvious attempt to take even more advantage of something that has nothing to do with her abilities and experience as a person. That's the type of 'taking advantage of the situation' I'm talking about.


She is ill suited for the job, and her religious conservatism divides the country and is part of the Republican Ideology that should be booted out.

The Republican Ideology should stand for Freedom from Government. That means, directly, economic and social freedom. The government should not dicate, through the 'reasoning' of religion, how one is to live their personal life, unless it directly harms / affects others.
That's a whole different issue and a whole different discussion altogether, as to what the Republican party should stand for. I can't really comment on that.

Vervaria, they TRIED running "Moderates" in 1996, and in 2008. Review McCain's VOTING RECORD, and review his Time in the Senate. Same for Dole.Nope. McCain is a fairly strong conservative who has made a few high profile breaks with his party on issues like climate change and immigration. The American Conservative Union (http://www.acuratings.org/2007senate.htm) gives him a lifetime score of 82.16%, compared to a 6.67% for Obama.

McCain hurt himself trying to look more Conservative/right-of-center than he really was, and in the process of trying to do that, he dragged Palin down with him (probably not his choice, for all his being a Liberal, McCain's still an honourable man, he doesn't tend to be a destruction-for-destruction's sake kind of guy).What McCain did was actually change his positions to make them farther right. He said that today he wouldn't vote for his own immigration bill. While he opposed Bush's tax cuts when they were implemented, his 2008 platform was to make them permanent. His record has also become more conservative, voting increasingly with the GOP line and the White House.

"Moderate' in American politics tends to reflect "Undecided", indecisiveness tends to turn people off when they're looking for a POTUS. Uh, so voters are going to go for the most extreme candidate? Ridiculous. Had Palin NOT accepted the VP slot this year, she'd have a chance in 2012, because unlike Democrats, Republicans don't forgive failure easily-and her affiliation with McCain puts the stink of failure on her reputation by association.If she hadn't accepted the VP slot, she would still be an unknown governor of a state with 0.7 million people.
This election repudiated the idea that a Moderate Republican can be as attractive as a Moderate Democrat- people want their GOP to be Conservatives-and not just mouthing the words, but actually BEING conservatives, and they like their Democrats to be Moderate and good-looking. This election repudiated the idea that a 72-year-old Senator tied to the most unpopular administration in polling history, coupled with an unknown, ignorant fundamentalist Christian (who is also the most unpopular VP candidate in polling history), can defeat the most eloquent and transformational candidate in a generation.

Well, I hope she runs and win the nomination, that way the Democrats can beat the Republicans more easily. :D

Haha, Myrth option. *nostalgic*

This election repudiated the idea that a 72-year-old Senator tied to the most unpopular administration in polling history, coupled with an unknown, ignorant fundamentalist Christian (who is also the most unpopular VP candidate in polling history), can defeat the most eloquent and transformational candidate in a generation.


Look at the generation you're talking about-the Generation of "American Idol", "Survivor:The Reality show", and people who need Doctor Phil, Oprah, and Jerry Springer to tell them how to live, what to eat, and what they should admire.

This is the generation of Prozac Babies, ADD/ADHD, and lowered academic standards-kids who can graduate high school with 7th grade or lower Math scores if they rack up enough community service hours, adults who take prescriptions to balance their moods, get "hard", get "wet", or "stay even". The sheer number of twenty-somethings I run into on a daily basis who're toting a medicine chest in their Old Navy Fleece is truly alarming.

To me, Obama's just another Democrat politician, one that happens to be a very good speaker, very liberal-left, very good at diverting the subject of his actual views, and very well connected.

The ACU's numbers were flogged for the Election to try and get McCain some votes from the 'base'. READ HIS RECORD. He's "conservative" like Tip O'Neal or Tom Foley.

They're grading on a CURVE.

I think a lot of the "61% of people who voted republican liked Palin" numbers are crap. Those statistics don't include people who were going to vote republican until they saw her for what she is, and didn't vote republican. And whassisnames comment that every one of the McCain volunteers he worked with loved Palin is also a crap observation, because, logically, if they didn't love Palin (or at least claim to), they would have not volunteer their time and effort for a ticket with a VP candidate they didn't like. So of course every McCain volunteer loved Palin, and of course a large percentage of people who voted for the republican party this year loved McCain - because those who didn't like her didn't vote republican.

I think the best measure we have of her popularity (and this isn't even a very apt measure) is to look at the polls just after the GOP convention (when her popularity was quite high), and compare it to the actual election results...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Pngs/Sep18.png

This is what the polls looked like on September 18th (This is basically McCain's high since the convention. He had a pretty good couple of days from the 12th to the 14th too. However, he was barely ahead of Obama during this time. Palin's popularity was at a high, and peoples familiarity of her was at a low.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Pngs/Nov08.png

This is the map on November 8th.

It seems pretty clear that only the people who liked Palin stayed with the GOP ticket, and the rest either stayed home, voted third party, or voted for Obama. I suspect that if you polled registered republicans (not people who voted republican in this election) if they liked Palin, or if they wanted her to run for president in 2012, the percentage of people who would say yes would be significantly lower than 61%.

I know quite a few registered long-time republicans who at the start of the year were saying they would never vote for Hillary Clinton for president, to voting passionately for Obama. Palin polarised the party. Republicans either loved her or hated her. Of those who hated her, some left the party, others stayed, but weren't happy about it.

I think a lot of the "61% of people who voted republican liked Palin" numbers are crap. Those statistics don't include people who were going to vote republican until they saw her for what she is, and didn't vote republican. And whassisnames comment that every one of the McCain volunteers he worked with loved Palin is also a crap observation, because, logically, if they didn't love Palin (or at least claim to), they would have not volunteer their time and effort for a ticket with a VP candidate they didn't like. So of course every McCain volunteer loved Palin, and of course a large percentage of people who voted for the republican party this year loved McCain - because those who didn't like her didn't vote republican.

I think the best measure we have of her popularity (and this isn't even a very apt measure) is to look at the polls just after the GOP convention (when her popularity was quite high), and compare it to the actual election results...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Pngs/Sep18.png

This is what the polls looked like on September 18th (This is basically McCain's high since the convention. He had a pretty good couple of days from the 12th to the 14th too. However, he was barely ahead of Obama during this time. Palin's popularity was at a high, and peoples familiarity of her was at a low.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Pngs/Nov08.png

This is the map on November 8th.

It seems pretty clear that only the people who liked Palin stayed with the GOP ticket, and the rest either stayed home, voted third party, or voted for Obama. I suspect that if you polled registered republicans (not people who voted republican in this election) if they liked Palin, or if they wanted her to run for president in 2012, the percentage of people who would say yes would be significantly lower than 61%.

I know quite a few registered long-time republicans who at the start of the year were saying they would never vote for Hillary Clinton for president, to voting passionately for Obama. Palin polarised the party. Republicans either loved her or hated her. Of those who hated her, some left the party, others stayed, but weren't happy about it.

Fonzica, check the polls BEFORE the convention bounce. The 'bounce' never shows up realistically in the polling for the losing party. EVER.

Look at the generation you're talking about-the Generation of "American Idol", "Survivor:The Reality show", and people who need Doctor Phil, Oprah, and Jerry Springer to tell them how to live, what to eat, and what they should admire.

This is the generation of Prozac Babies, ADD/ADHD, and lowered academic standards-kids who can graduate high school with 7th grade or lower Math scores if they rack up enough community service hours, adults who take prescriptions to balance their moods, get "hard", get "wet", or "stay even". The sheer number of twenty-somethings I run into on a daily basis who're toting a medicine chest in their Old Navy Fleece is truly alarming.

To me, Obama's just another Democrat politician, one that happens to be a very good speaker, very liberal-left, very good at diverting the subject of his actual views, and very well connected.

The ACU's numbers were flogged for the Election to try and get McCain some votes from the 'base'. READ HIS RECORD. He's "conservative" like Tip O'Neal or Tom Foley.

They're grading on a CURVE.

Obama was born in 1961, which puts him at the tail end of the Baby Boom generation.

As for all the complaints about "kids these days," I don't think you know what you're talking about. No one I know watches those shows. You're judging me and everyone my age by what television shows are on right now? And by the proliferation of prescription drugs?

This is your line of reasoning: Pop culture stupid --> Entire generation stupid --> Obama not actually eloquent or transformational.

And what's this about "read McCain's record" in all caps? I've read his record, I've read others' analysis of his record, and I think he's fairly conservative on most issues, especially since the start of his campaign.

Fonzica, check the polls BEFORE the convention bounce. The 'bounce' never shows up realistically in the polling for the losing party. EVER.

Fine. Here (http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Sep01.html)is before the convention. Here (http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Sep07.html) is after the convention. Only change is that Ohio and North Dakota moved into the Democrats' column.

Yes, some polls picked up a bounce after the convention. Especially in Alaska. But as time went on, it was clear that Palin was a drag on the ticket, almost universally cited by non-McCain supporters as one of their main concerns with the ticket.

A better graph is here (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html). (Scroll down). You can see a clear convention bump, but one that started to decline rapidly. Note that Obama got a comparable bump from the Democratic Convention. So if Palin boosted McCain's numbers, then Biden must have boosted Obama's. Also note that it was on September 24th that McCain suspended his campaign over the economic crisis. McCain's numbers were falling before that.

I think a lot of the "61% of people who voted republican liked Palin" numbers are crap. Those statistics don't include people who were going to vote republican until they saw her for what she is, and didn't vote republican.

I wonder how big that group truly is. I know a few dozen people that did NOT vote republican, just because they did not want Palin to be "a hearthbeat of a 70+ cancer patient away from the presidency" .

Let the reps find a decent woman next time.

It's also worth considering that in 2012, there probably won't be much of a Democratic primary, since Obama will be running for reelection. So for anyone who lives in a state with open primaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_primary#States_with_an_open_presidential_primary), I suggest we vote for the least viable candidate.

Fonzica, check the polls BEFORE the convention bounce. The 'bounce' never shows up realistically in the polling for the losing party. EVER.

When you say "realistically" I'm not sure if you're saying it would be a higher bounce or a lower one.

Have pity on us observers who may not be so steeped in polling jargon.

Will Palin run in 2012?

No, but in light of recent candidate history, her husband will probably run in 2016...

Not trivial things such as the claim that she thought Africa was a single nation

So it's trivial she doesn't understand what most people did at the age of 7?

When you say "realistically" I'm not sure if you're saying it would be a higher bounce or a lower one.

Have pity on us observers who may not be so steeped in polling jargon.

In polling terms, I don't think "realistically" means anything.

A bounce is called that because it goes up and then it goes down. You can't actually tell by looking at election day results. Obama's convention bounce was offset by McCain's convention bounce, which happened the next week. McCain's bounce lasted a couple days and then fell back to previous levels. Obama, in the meantime, kept rising.

In polling terms, I don't think "realistically" means anything.

A bounce is called that because it goes up and then it goes down. You can't actually tell by looking at election day results. Obama's convention bounce was offset by McCain's convention bounce, which happened the next week. McCain's bounce lasted a couple days and then fell back to previous levels. Obama, in the meantime, kept rising.

Obama's was hard-won. McCain's was a sinecure.

I'm not disputing anything, just trying to understand Sudova's point against Fonzeca.

So it's trivial she doesn't understand what most people did at the age of 7?

Well, is there a country named "Africa"?

There is a country named "South Africa" ... right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_names_of_South_Africa)?

That gun-loving bible-nut... She's a "Real" American!

Just out of interest, if she went to university, where abouts?

Obama's was hard-won. McCain's was a sinecure.

I'm not disputing anything, just trying to understand Sudova's point against Fonzeca.

I guess the point was that she gave McCain a boost, just not a big enough one to win the election. Which I think is untrue. McCain got his normal convention boost, perhaps increased some by the buzz over Palin. And then Palin became a clear negative with independents as she flubbed her interviews and lobbed divisive rhetorical grenades.

Just out of interest, if she went to university, where abouts? She attended five colleges over a period of six years before graduating from the University of Idaho.

nope. She won't run for President. Senator, however, is a different story

Palin was fantaistic, but I'm looking for a right winged conservative who follows almost all of my views.

Governor Palin was nothing more than an interesting gimmick in this election, but now that stars have been placed in her eyes I have no doubt that she'll make a grab for the nomination in 2012. As a fairly conservative person that wound up voting solely for California Proposition 1A (I love trains ^^), I honestly believe that John McCain was the most formidable candidate the Republican Party could field at this juncture. Let's be honest, Sarah Palin is a few crayons short of a box. Her selection was as much an attempt to steal some of Obama's media attention as it was meant to appease the far-right. It worked until she opened her mouth.

John McCain had a very brief window with which to win this election, and it closed before the first debate stopped airing. Aside from his personal weaknesses in public speaking and just his age in general, he was saddled with eight years of bad memories in the minds of a weary American public. In the opposite corner was an opponent who could draw crowds no matter where he went and who enjoyed a huge degree of support from abroad. Barack Obama is McCain's antithesis, and he struck the right chord at the right time. He ran a brilliant campaign.

I'm studying at Pepperdine University, and I need to say that I'm absolutely shocked at the response that Obama has received here. We're known to be a bastion of conservative thinking on the highly liberal West Coast, but as the results rolled in people were breaking down in tears, shouting racist epithets or kicking things in frustration. It's unbelievable. For all that you may disagree with Barack Obama's beliefs and proposals, there is no need to be bitter.

I voted for Senator McCain, but Barack Obama's election is a huge step for America. It signals an end to hundreds of years of resentment and marks a new era in American politics. I hope that such encompassing voter turnout continues in future elections, because I was honestly proud to see so many people my age awake on a Tuesday morning to express their views.

I grew up in Beijing and still live in Tokyo over the summers, so I need to be perfectly clear when I say that there are times when I was embarrassed to admit I was an American. Enduring the heckling from European, Asian and Oceanic friends could be quite trying. It was quite touching that a few of them actually called me from abroad the day after the election to apologize for all of the torment. ^^

I've drifted far off-topic, but I suppose my point is that you should be proud of America no matter who won. Four years of good or bad leadership will not make or break this country, and in the eyes of the world America made a good decision. Perhaps it was not the best decision, but we won't know for years. Maybe President Obama will surprise us.

Coming back to the OT: Governor Palin is going to leap and fall in 2012. Bobby Jindal, on the other hand, may be persuaded to make a run depending on how good a course Barack Obama charted for America. He's a wonderful person, regardless of his rather steadfast views. I think he has a shot. :)

Many Republicans are sensible enough to now recognise what a liability she was as VP candidate, so if she is silly enough to run, she'll lose in the primaries. Badly.

She may well run and I think if she does then it'll lead to further marginalization of the Republican party's political power on a national level.

I don't think that in 4 years the country will forget that the conservative-right, neo-con branch of the republican party put us into 2 wars and an economic crisis surpassing the depression. That is their inheritance and history. The country does not want idealogue or morality leaders--it wants educated leaders. I hope the republican party continues to promote people like Palin and continues its divisive, bigoted and mudslinging ways, as they alienate the intellectual and moderate republicans, attract only the KKK and born-again moralists and ideologues, and enlarge the democratic stronghold. They have absolutely no chance in 2012, as the entire country will never forget how they ran through a surplus, amassed debt, launched non-provoked wars and disgraced this country over the last 8 years. That is the republican legacy. By the way, the middle class, the "working poor" comprising 97% of this country clearly rejected the Reaganomics trickle down approach to the economy as well. Thanks to the complete deregulation granted by the republicans, we have seen how corporations, walls street and the top 3% benefitted by such an economic approach by hoarding assets for themselves and then nationalizing their debts. NEVER AGAIN.

I'm studying at Pepperdine University, and I need to say that I'm absolutely shocked at the response that Obama has received here. We're known to be a bastion of conservative thinking on the highly liberal West Coast, but as the results rolled in people were breaking down in tears, shouting racist epithets or kicking things in frustration. It's unbelievable. For all that you may disagree with Barack Obama's beliefs and proposals, there is no need to be bitter.



i find that an odd reaction. did it never occur to them that mccain had a very slim chance to win? they should have been resigned to this outcome from the first palin interview.

Well, is there a country named "Africa"?

There is a country named "South Africa" ... right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_names_of_South_Africa)?
That's actually the question that got Palin in trouble. She asked if "South Africa" was a separate country, or just a state within the country of "Africa".

I really hope she doesn´t run in 2012. Caribou Barbie has some scary and wacko ideas.

That's actually the question that got Palin in trouble. She asked if "South Africa" was a separate country, or just a state within the country of "Africa".
lol

i refuse to look up that interview. i am pretending in my head that it all happened because she was worn out from campaigning day and night for 2 months and trying to take care of a new baby at the same time.

i find that an odd reaction. did it never occur to them that mccain had a very slim chance to win? they should have been resigned to this outcome from the first palin interview.This school is backed by the Church of Christ, and while it is not horribly invasive, for somebody that grew up vaguely as a Shintō (odd, yes) a lot of the flag waving and Bible-thumping can be quite overt and irritating.

For all that we claim to love everyone equally, there are some interesting definitions of equality on this campus. An interesting kid on campus is currently being ostracized for creating an "Overturn Proposition 8" group on Facebook, even while our school nearly fired a Law Professor for appearing in a "Yes on 8" ad that implied that Pepperdine supported the Proposition.

It's all rather irritating. We have a 50/50 split between decent, hardworking kids and spoiled white kids who can't make up their own minds and spout whatever idiocy their fathers put into their heads. I'm all for being fiscally conservative, but views like "let the homeless starve and die out" actually draw an audience during debates. Delusional, perhaps.

i find that an odd reaction. did it never occur to them that mccain had a very slim chance to win? they should have been resigned to this outcome from the first palin interview.

They may have been delusional. Comedy Central's Indecision 2008 posted a link to a blog of bitter Hillary Clinton supporters. It's a post from November 3, titled Five Reasons Obama Lost This Election. (http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/five-reasons-obama-lost-this-election/) They really convinced themselves that the media was "in the tank" for Obama, and thereby justified ignoring all news reports.

This school is backed by the Church of Christ, and while it is not horribly invasive, for somebody that grew up vaguely as a Shintō (odd, yes) a lot of the flag waving and Bible-thumping can be quite overt and irritating.

That´s interesting. I don´t think I know anyone, on the internet or personally, who has grown up Shinto. I would like to know more about it, if you care to talk about it. Mind if I TG you with some questions?

This school is backed by the Church of Christ, and while it is not horribly invasive, for somebody that grew up vaguely as a Shintō (odd, yes) a lot of the flag waving and Bible-thumping can be quite overt and irritating.

For all that we claim to love everyone equally, there are some interesting definitions of equality on this campus. An interesting kid on campus is currently being ostracized for creating an "Overturn Proposition 8" group on Facebook, even while our school nearly fired a Law Professor for appearing in a "Yes on 8" ad that implied that Pepperdine supported the Proposition.

It's all rather irritating. We have a 50/50 split between decent, hardworking kids and spoiled white kids who can't make up their own minds and spout whatever idiocy their fathers put into their heads. I'm all for being fiscally conservative, but views like "let the homeless starve and die out" actually draw an audience during debates. Delusional, perhaps.
*shudder*

as long as you arent tainted by that attitude its a whole nother education for you to see and have to deal with people like this. at a totally liberal university you would be trained in the delusion that we have gotten past this kind of thinking

but they really should have understood that there was a damned good chance that mccain was going to lose. (which is why all that bullshit about obama was so destructive. now those people think that their new president is a moslem extremist who pals around with terrorists and is going to make us all communists.)

They may have been delusional. Comedy Central's Indecision 2008 posted a link to a blog of bitter Hillary Clinton supporters. It's a post from November 3, titled Five Reasons Obama Lost This Election. (http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/five-reasons-obama-lost-this-election/) They really convinced themselves that the media was "in the tank" for Obama, and thereby justified ignoring all news reports.
did they have some good reasons why he "lost"?

did they have some good reasons why he "lost"?

They said this:
Taking in everything we have seen and heard during the primaries, the general election, and our time on the ground in Ohio and Pennsylvania this weekend, here are the top Five Reasons Obama Lost This Election: in a year no Democrat should have lost, in an election Hillary Clinton would have won decisively.

(1) The Obamedia’s Attacks on Joe the Plumber
(2) Bitter, Gun-and-Religion-Clinging Small Town America
(3) Obamedia’s Nonstop Love Affair With Obama
(4) Obama’s Constant Playing of the Race Card
(5) PUMAs and Sarah PalinAnd this: The Obamedia claims 90% of Democrats are backing Obama and we think that’s absolutely crazy. We bet only 75% of Democrats are backing Obama and 95% of Republicans are bacing McCain. And this: We truly do not see how McCain loses Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida, and there is no mathematical formula we can find where Obama gets to 270 without at least one of those three.
FAIL.

They said this:
And this: And this:
FAIL.
wow they were highly delusional.

i dont think mrs clinton would have done as well as obama. her campaign was a mess.

Let's hope her or someone of a similar caliber runs. Unless our newest president has a significant change of heart on 50% of his policies, most people will be ready for a change again.

Assuming we still have free and open elections, and conservative dissidents aren't being brutally repressed.

Let's hope her or someone of a similar caliber runs. Unless our newest president has a significant change of heart on 50% of his policies, most people will be ready for a change again.

Assuming we still have free and open elections, and conservative dissidents aren't being brutally repressed.
his policies are not much different from bill clinton's and clinton had no problem getting re-elected.

They said this:
And this: And this:
FAIL.

What the hell are PUMAs?

did they have some good reasons why he "lost"?

it boiled down to:

1) he's a socialist, as the brilliant and patriotic Joe the Plumber showed us, despite the fact that said plumber was once on welfare himself

2) he lost the trust, and thus the vote, of bitter small town america by calling them bitter, despite that the rural vote was never part of Obama's base, and was swinging in his favor more than it did Kerry in 2004 or Gore in 2000 or even clinton in 1996

3) the media loves him, thus america will hate him, despite the fact that media makes it money by people watching, and the fact that while the media was busy falling over itself to report about BIll Ayers, the "palling around with terrorists" remark, ACORN, the faux controversy about his birth certificate, and basically printed every negative word McCain/Palin spewed out, things like the Keating Five, and the fact that the POLO supported Obama had "connections" with was funded by the republican party, got nary a mention in the mainstream

4) "the Playing of the race card" will obviously hurt obama in places like rural PA and OH, because decent hard working americans don't like being called racist just because they disagree with Obama, ignoring the fact that the people voting for Obama weren't really offended, and people voting against Obama, while they might have been irritated by some calls of racism, and thus put off the Obama campalgn...weren't voting for him in the first place, so if calls of racism irritated those voting against Obama, they weren't actually planning on voting for him anyway.

5) PUMA pride, because really, life long democrats were so totally going to secretly turn out to vote for McCain in droves, even though no polls at all showed this, that by all indication Obama had more support of republicans than McCain had of Democrats, and there was no real showing of any clinton supporters voting for McCain in any substantial numbers. Becauseh the idea of cutting off your nose to spite your face and voting for someone who in no way resembled the politics of your chosen candidate, to show your distaste of someone who was largely politically identical to her, is totally a smart idea, and everyone should go for it.

What the hell are PUMAs?

People Up McCain's Ass. A group of probably about 20 disgruntled Clinton voters who were pissed at Obama, and that McCain was hoping to capitalize on in appointing Palin his running mate.

What the hell are PUMAs?

PUMA is a political action committee, originally standing for "political unity, my ass" but renamed "people united means action". It was started after Obama's primary win by a group of Hillary Clinton supporters who believed she should have won, and stated they would vote McCain over Obama. The original name was a rejection of the call for political unity in the wake of Obama's win, and the request to Clinton supporters to support Obama for the presidency.

They basically were a bunch of people who, upset that Clinton didn't win decided, instead of voting for someone close to her ideology, to vote for someone completely different.

in general "PUMAs" became to mean the group of clinton supporters crossing the isle to vote mcCain in dislike of Obama. A lot of right wing pundits discussed the "PUMA effect", basically talking about whether Obama would lose a lot of Clinton supporters, and whether McCain would win because of this across the isle support. Of course when the results came in, it showed that Obama's party support was about the same as any candidate, if not a little higher, with fewer democrats voting against him than is typical.

What the hell are PUMAs?Stands for: Party Unity My Ass.
This was a slogan by bitter supporters of Hilary Clinton (we saw a few on this board) who were going to refuse to vote for Obama after he had the temerity to win the nomination (all the ones we met here changed their minds). The PUMAs held a meeting to plan for their grand disruption of the Denver convention: about 25 showed up. Websites continued to promote the idea that they were a movement commanding millions of loyal followers, but 25 may have been close to their total number.

That´s interesting. I don´t think I know anyone, on the internet or personally, who has grown up Shinto. I would like to know more about it, if you care to talk about it. Mind if I TG you with some questions?That would be fine, although I don't know how much insight I could offer.

It was more a consequence of growing up in Japan. I was very young when my family first moved to Tokyo and the local shrine was willing to add my name to their list (as a sign of welcoming, I believe). Like many relics of Pre-WWII Japan, certain Shinto practices have been integrated into society without carrying such heavy religious connotations. It's said that Children are born Shinto, married Christian and buried Buddhist due to the meshing of East-West that occurred during the Allied Occupation.

The "prayers", if you could call them that, were quite simple and quick. I grew familiar with the Shrine priests and they recognized me as the hapa ^^. I'd attend festivals, occasionally look on while buildings were blessed (an interesting source of income for these local shrines) and of course attend Matsuri with friends. I don't know if I can honestly say that I followed Shinto so much as that I grew up as an American without any concept of Christianity. It's so hard to classify yourself as a believer when a huge portion of the population does these same things for tradition's sake.

I moved to Beijing when I was 12 and my family has only recently moved back to Tokyo. My Japanese is horribly rusty, but I'd love to have another chance to get involved with Japanese society. If I ever return as an English teacher under the JET program it will be interesting to see how deeply-ingrained I was with Japanese culture.

As for the other poster: That's exactly how I'm treating it. I'm proud to be an American and I'm equally proud that we've gotten over such a large hump. I feel like I'm privy to a viewpoint that completely different from the mainstream (as evidenced by the election results), and it's alternately fascinating and frightening. Some of the true believers in Christ are handling this with commendable grace, others with deplorable actions.

Stands for: Party Unity My Ass.
This was a slogan by bitter supporters of Hilary Clinton (we saw a few on this board) who were going to refuse to vote for Obama after he had the temerity to win the nomination (all the ones we met here changed their minds). The PUMAs held a meeting to plan for their grand disruption of the Denver convention: about 25 showed up. Websites continued to promote the idea that they were a movement commanding millions of loyal followers, but 25 may have been close to their total number.

I can't recall any real PUMAs on this board that were any kind of regulars. I know we had ONE guy (who shall remain nameless) was would totally have voted for Clinton, but was then so totally going to vote for McCain, if it weren't for the fact that he was, you know, Canadian.

PUMA is a political action committee, originally standing for "political unity, my ass" but renamed "people united means action". It was started after Obama's primary win by a group of Hillary Clinton supporters who believed she should have won, and stated they would vote McCain over Obama. The original name was a rejection of the call for political unity in the wake of Obama's win, and the request to Clinton supporters to support Obama for the presidency.

They basically were a bunch of people who, upset that Clinton didn't win decided, instead of voting for someone close to her ideology, to vote for someone completely different.

in general "PUMAs" became to mean the group of clinton supporters crossing the isle to vote mcCain in dislike of Obama. A lot of right wing pundits discussed the "PUMA effect", basically talking about whether Obama would lose a lot of Clinton supporters, and whether McCain would win because of this across the isle support. Of course when the results came in, it showed that Obama's party support was about the same as any candidate, if not a little higher, with fewer democrats voting against him than is typical.

Ah. I didn't realize those people had their own acronym.

Canadian.This was what was so fascinating about this election: no matter where I was, it was being followed. I may be remembering something incorrectly, but apparently more Japanese people turned into coverage of Barack Obama and John McCain than their own Prime Minister Taro Aso after he replaced Yasuo Fukuda.

I'm pulling this thread off-topic; my apologies.

So!

How 'bout that Palin? :D

I can't recall any real PUMAs on this board that were any kind of regulars. I know we had ONE guy (who shall remain nameless) was would totally have voted for Clinton, but was then so totally going to vote for McCain, if it weren't for the fact that he was, you know, Canadian.You're forgetting Shal, who was bent out of shape late in the primary season, but then came back announcing that he had invited Obama into his heart.

I'LL HAVE TO GET BACK TO YA ON THAT ONE!!!


^Palin power...^

Stands for: Party Unity My Ass.
This was a slogan by bitter supporters of Hilary Clinton (we saw a few on this board) who were going to refuse to vote for Obama after he had the temerity to win the nomination (all the ones we met here changed their minds). The PUMAs held a meeting to plan for their grand disruption of the Denver convention: about 25 showed up. Websites continued to promote the idea that they were a movement commanding millions of loyal followers, but 25 may have been close to their total number.

Right after McCain picked Palin, I recall saying that the PUMAs had done Obama a big favor by convincing the Republicans that Hillary Clinton supporters would flock to them if they only stuck a woman on the ticket. The punchline is that Palin got lower approval ratings from women than from men.

...if it weren't for the fact that he was, you know, Canadian.
Canadians have feelings too, you know. You can't see it, but I'm currently shedding a single, noble tear on behalf of this wounded, Northern gentleman. Whoever the fuck he is.

Palin/Plumber 2012!!!

Poor guy doesn't even have a last name. He's known by his profession now. ^^

I'm kidding but I saw that on bustedtees.com

Zombie Jesus 2012!

I'm sorry but let's just all say funny election things.

John McCain 1908.

I'm sorry but let's just all say funny election things.
Aye, that might make up for your posts.

Yeah, I am sorry.

They said this:
And this: And this:
FAIL.

Oh man, I love this part:

We’re still mystified WHY Obama played the race card so much — because black voters have proved how racist they are, but voting for Obama 98% in the primaries.

Priceless.

Right after McCain picked Palin, I recall saying that the PUMAs had done Obama a big favor by convincing the Republicans that Hillary Clinton supporters would flock to them if they only stuck a woman on the ticket. The punchline is that Palin got lower approval ratings from women than from men.

well that's the amusing thing about the PUMA "phenomena", it was an entire group predicated on screaming "sexism" and "playing the race card!" to explain the results, while at the same time their entire political position was predicated on either sexism, racism, or both.

These were a group of people who claimed to support Clinton, but would vote for McCain over Obama. Think about this for a moment, a group of people who would have voted Clinton over McCain, but McCain over Obama. Would have voted for liberal Clinton over conservative McCain, but not for conservative McCain over liberal Obama, despite the fact that Obama and Clinton are FAAAAR more politically similar than either one is to McCain. The only explanation for this, the only reason why any person capable of even the most remotely competent person would switch allegiances from Clinton to McCain and not Obama is that they were willing to vote for Clinton because she's a woman, or they were not willing to vote Obama because he's black.

"We said Thanks, but No Thanks, to that bitch from nowhere!"

well that's the amusing thing about the PUMA "phenomena", it was an entire group predicated on screaming "sexism" and "playing the race card!" to explain the results, while at the same time their entire political position was predicated on either sexism, racism, or both.And thus McCain's selection of Palin was predicated on a sexist assumption--that women would vote for him just because his running mate was a woman. Turns out that women actually care about issues and qualifications. Who knew?

Poor guy doesn't even have a last name. He's known by his profession now. ^^

Not to mention he doesn't actually have a plumber's license...

I think Palin will run for it... I think she has the ego for it. The difference is the primaries are brutal. Whether she is smart or not (I personally say not), she acts like and idiot and says very stupid things. These things will not get her though Republican primaries when she's facing someone else. Easy to say Republicans supported her AFTER she became the VP (she wasn't even on the list of people who people thought would get the nomination). When shes facing other Republicans, she will be shredded.

I don't know if shes smart and playing stupid, but personally, all the talk of her experience and this and that, mean nill to me. Experience comes in many ways and forms, and to say her executive experience was better then Obama's senatorial experience means nothing. As long as you have certain minimums of experience, as long as you can speak well, speak to topics directly and knowledgeably (or as directly as is humanly possible for a politician), and present yourself well, you stand something of a shot. I think she spoke well, spoke with no knowledge on many topics, and I didn't like her presentation, but those are personal opinions.

She's run, and the Republicans will utterly crush her in the primaries.

Even if Palin does run in the primaries, it doesn't matter, the 2012 republican ticket will be Jindal/Daniels. Vote for Bobby Jindal, and Mitch Daniels in 2012!

Even if Palin does run in the primaries, it doesn't matter, the 2012 republican ticket will be Jindal/Daniels. Vote for Bobby Jindal, and Mitch Daniels in 2012!I'll wait to see how these four years go first.

The correct answer for 2012 is: Palin who?

Even if Palin does run in the primaries, it doesn't matter, the 2012 republican ticket will be Jindal/Daniels. Vote for Bobby Jindal, and Mitch Daniels in 2012!
I don't like Jindal.

I'm speaking about actual issues, such as the Iraq war, American relations with Russia, various wars across the world, Iran, etc. Not trivial things such as the claim that she thought Africa was a single nation (or whatever it was), and drawing upon that to criticize her. Also, the phone call from 'Sarkozy"? An obvious attempt to take even more advantage of something that has nothing to do with her abilities and experience as a person. That's the type of 'taking advantage of the situation' I'm talking about.
Taking advantage of her?
Have you even seen how uneducated she is on, for example, foreign policy/foreign relations. You brought up American relations with Russia...how perfect.

Let me show you something.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nokTjEdaUGg&feature=related

If that's not relevant, I don't know what is. Surely you've seen my threads on Russia...surely you know that it is important that our leader are well educated on foreign relations, ESPCIALLY when dealing with Russia.

Here's an important one on domestic policy:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0rXmuhWrlj4&feature=related

That's a whole different issue and a whole different discussion altogether, as to what the Republican party should stand for. I can't really comment on that.
But it's not really..because if you support Palin, you support a populist, religious conservative version of the Republican party.

Depends who wins in the coming Republican Party power struggle.

and conservative dissidents aren't being brutally repressed.

I hope they are.

But it's not really..because if you support Palin, you support a populist, religious conservative version of the Republican party.

It's the end times when I have to agree with TAI :eek:

Seriously, Palin looks like the sort of person you'd get if you distilled 100 proof fundamentalist bible thumping.

And if not, the alternative at this point seems to be Huckabee.

Bobby Jindal makes more sense to me than either Huckabee or Palin.

And thus McCain's selection of Palin was predicated on a sexist assumption--that women would vote for him just because his running mate was a woman. Turns out that women actually care about issues and qualifications. Who knew?

Thats the kind of thing that might almost make you think.

Look at some of the exit poll numbers from the election.

Sarah Palin cost John McCain the election.

Shes only likable to trailer park denizens, and the uneducated.
Anyone who actually does a small amount of research on her finds something rotten about her.

She's a political Jonah, and the G.O.P is now fully aware of this.

They wont run her in 2012, or ever.

Palin/Wurzelbacher in 2012: the slogan will be "Dumb, and Plumber!"