NationStates Jolt Archive

So, how about that change, huh?

US President-elect Barack Obama has told Polish President Lech Kaczynski he intends to follow through with plans to build parts of a US anti-missile shield in Poland, Warsaw said today.
"Barack Obama has underlined the importance of strategic partnership between Poland and the United States, he expressed his hope of continuing the political and military cooperation between our two countries," a statement said.

"He also said the anti-missile shield project would go ahead", said the statement issued by Mr Kaczynski after the two men spoke by phone.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24622551-23109,00.html

Yeah, because it's not like he said he wouldn't go through with this. Except for that one time when he did.

A statement from Kaczynski. Not from Obama's office or the man himself. Not to mention the article itself is rather short and vague. Wow, at least Jason Blair and Stephen Glass went into details with their fabrications. I wonder if this article was written by Curveball?

Nice shot at trying to play the emo spoiler, Potato Boy. Next time, find something a little more meaty and credible.

He's not going to cancel anything military. Very bad for the economy. Probably get a draft too to hide unemployment. That's the usual MO during a deflationary depression.

But all this would have happened whoever was president.

A statement from Kaczynski. Not from Obama's office or the man himself. Not to mention the article itself is rather short and vague. Wow, at least Jason Blair and Stephen Glass went into details with their fabrications. I wonder if this article was written by Curveball?

Nice shot at trying to play the emo spoiler, Potato Boy. Next time, find something a little more meaty and credible.

Damn my instinct was to come off defending him, not making it look a lie.

So, how about that change, huh?



http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24622551-23109,00.html

Yeah, because it's not like he said he wouldn't go through with this. Except for that one time when he did.

A Politician made promises on the campaign trail that he never intended to keep?

The devil you say!

In other news, Bear shit in the woods, The sky is blue and the following things are up: Clouds, Airplanes and stiff dicks.

MMMnnnah. Might be true. Doubtful, but might be-Obama's home turf is Chicago, and Boeing is in Chicago, and a major contractor, (also, a sustained contributor to the Party, both from Corporate funds, and from the Union).

But I think this one's probably more internet rumour than fact.

Damn you Reuters and your internet rumours!

MMMnnnah. Might be true. Doubtful, but might be-Obama's home turf is Chicago, and Boeing is in Chicago, and a major contractor, (also, a sustained contributor to the Party, both from Corporate funds, and from the Union).

But I think this one's probably more internet rumour than fact.

Judging by the person who posted it, it most certainly is rumour rather than fact.

Judging by the person who posted it, it most certainly is rumour rather than fact.

Agence France-Presse?

Agence France-Presse?

Being charitable? Yeah. Continuing to "bait the Bear" would be bad, baaad juju for Obama among his own party stalwarts, and it would likely put him in bad odour with his closest allies and confidantes back home. The guy's record, and his statements during the primaries don't support it either.

Being charitable? Yeah. Continuing to "bait the Bear" would be bad, baaad juju for Obama among his own party stalwarts, and it would likely put him in bad odour with his closest allies and confidantes back home. The guy's record, and his statements during the primaries don't support it either.

So you are saying that you know more about this than the Polish President, who spoke to him about this, and the Polish dude is just making all this shit up?

No, I'm saying that IF Obama made the committment, he didn't mean it.

Oh the fantastic waste of time this is. Ten anti-missile tubes in Poland is not a way to stop the Russians, it might as well be a spitball compared to their stocks. Unless he's actually deploying some kind of laser or something there, it sounds more like a way to casually insult Russia tbq.

He's not going to cancel anything military. Very bad for the economy. Probably get a draft too to hide unemployment. That's the usual MO during a deflationary depression.

But all this would have happened whoever was president.
The military is going to have to take significant cuts to bring it back in line with reality. Regardless of what the Pentagon, DoD, and arm-chair hawks say.

He's not going to cancel anything military. Very bad for the economy. Probably get a draft too to hide unemployment. That's the usual MO during a deflationary depression.

But all this would have happened whoever was president.
I hope I'm not wrong -- but I do NOT see a draft coming. Not when we have such a large volunteer army.

So you are saying that you know more about this than the Polish President, who spoke to him about this, and the Polish dude is just making all this shit up?
Well -- Russia's been saber rattling and their antics in Georgia probably are making all their former satellites and near neighbors awfully nervous. It's not so crazy that someone might say, "Uh, yeah, remember that missile system? They're STILL building it."

Hypothetically speaking, of course. I don't know for sure.

I hope I'm not wrong -- but I do NOT see a draft coming. Not when we have such a large volunteer army.

It's not large enough to deal with 17-25 year old unemployment. Traditionally these guys have been bundled off to higher education, but that's not going to be feasible to the same extent going forward because the loan market is going to disappear, and frankly, people are just not going to be able to service those debt levels anymore.

And the government isn't going to waste its own money on it. The draft on the other hand is quite the convenient soup kitchen.

And really, the army isn't very large at all.


Well -- Russia's been saber rattling and their antics in Georgia probably are making all their former satellites and near neighbors awfully nervous. It's not so crazy that someone might say, "Uh, yeah, remember that missile system? They're STILL building it."

Hypothetically speaking, of course. I don't know for sure.

Nah, the US has been the sabre rattler.

The military is going to have to take significant cuts to bring it back in line with reality. Regardless of what the Pentagon, DoD, and arm-chair hawks say.

Nothing to do with arm-chair hawks. It's one of the easiest types of fiscal stimulus. So it stays.

They'll cut things like environment first.

So you are saying that you know more about this than the Polish President, who spoke to him about this, and the Polish dude is just making all this shit up?
The Polish president is not a particularly honest or honorable man.

So, how about that change, huh?



http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24622551-23109,00.html

Yeah, because it's not like he said he wouldn't go through with this. Except for that one time when he did.

Well, Kaczyński doesn't really count as a balanced source of information. He's been trying to make himself more important than he is since Tusk's election as a Prime Minister.

Anyways I have a ČTK article in Czech dated 12.09.2008 reporting that Obama said in an interview on FOX News that he is for completing the ABM shield in Europe.
Obama podpořil protiraketový štít ve střední Evropě (http://www.financninoviny.cz/tema/index_view.php?id=332949&id_seznam=6079)
So, I don't know if this is really news for me.

Maybe you can source when he said that he's against, because i couldn't find it.

It's not large enough to deal with 17-25 year old unemployment. Traditionally these guys have been bundled off to higher education, but that's not going to be feasible to the same extent going forward because the loan market is going to disappear, and frankly, people are just not going to be able to service those debt levels anymore.

And the government isn't going to waste its own money on it. The draft on the other hand is quite the convenient soup kitchen.

And really, the army isn't very large at all.
I could see the reinstitution of the CCC before I see a draft though. It's easy enough to say, "Oh, well, they knew what they were risking when they SIGNED UP," but when brothers and sisters, sons and daughters are dragged off, they're be a hue and cry.

Nah, the US has been the sabre rattler.
Mmmm okay, whatever.

I could see the reinstitution of the CCC before I see a draft though. It's easy enough to say, "Oh, well, they knew what they were risking when they SIGNED UP," but when brothers and sisters, sons and daughters are dragged off, they're be a hue and cry.

Maybe. I just think a CCC is a hard sell. Anyway, after a few years of a deflationary depression, people usually stop caring about stuff like that. Historically the poor don't grumble about the draft (or not to the extent that the government cares) and pretty much everyone is going to be poor.

Mmmm okay, whatever.

You don't think the US is the aggressive one here? Talking about expanding NATO all over the shop, backing Kosovo, training and equipping the Georgian Military?

Then there is the whole orange and rose revolution stuff which was funded by anglo-american money.

Russia is reacting to sabres that were already rattled. Personally I'd just ignore them. This type of tit for tat is hardly patching things up.

Maybe you can source when he said that he's against, because i couldn't find it.

http://www.newsmax.com/smith/barack_obama/2008/06/10/103236.html

“I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems,” stated Obama.

That's even funnier; he's just planning to cut the military out of the US altogether.

Being charitable? Yeah. Continuing to "bait the Bear" would be bad, baaad juju for Obama among his own party stalwarts, and it would likely put him in bad odour with his closest allies and confidantes back home. The guy's record, and his statements during the primaries don't support it either.I'm pretty certain that continuing a defensive project started under the democrat Clinton, and merely continued under Bush, isn't really a problem for a man who stood in front of a crowd of anti-war protestors and told them - people whose votes he needed - straight to the face that they're wrong and that wars can on occasion be justified.
Oh the fantastic waste of time this is. Ten anti-missile tubes in Poland is not a way to stop the Russians, it might as well be a spitball compared to their stocks. Unless he's actually deploying some kind of laser or something there, it sounds more like a way to casually insult Russia tbq.They're not meant to stop Russia - they're meant to stop (A future) Iran.

In fact, AFAIK (And according to the - admittedly limited - information released on them), they cannot do anything against (European part of) Russia(n) missiles - too close. Chasing a Mach 28 ICBM is a little hard (Worth noting that the Alaskan deployment is decently far away from the countries whose missiles it's supposed to intercept - North Korea & China).

Hence why Russia has never complained about the missile's ability to intercept their missiles, but rather about how they're (According to Russia) modify-able to carry nuclear warheads - into Russia, at very short notice
Ten are considered a sufficient deployment; While they could do little against a Russian total launch even if capable of chasing their targets down, they easily suffice to stop a handful of barely-affordable first-generation missiles from $Middle-Eastern shithole

You don't think the US is the aggressive one here? Talking about expanding NATO all over the shop, backing Kosovo, training and equipping the Georgian Military?You may not have noticed it, but NATO membership isn't enforced - rather, one applies for it. You saying the US is the aggressor because it doesn't outright refuse membership to countries who want in, while Russia is the peace-loving dove for being pissed that sovereign nations that apply to, or are considering applying to NATO?

I think the Prawda may have a job for you, though.

I think when Obama realises the delicate balancing plate that is global politics, he'll rethink a lot of his campaign rhetoric. Quite frankly, the Chicago Machine is more pragmatic than liberal or conservative, and he's walking into quite a mess.
I understand he's already looking seriously at the Reagan economy, and recreating it-and Reagan's political victories were much more impressive than his. The Chicago philosophy is corrupt, but incredibly competant, so more may be going on than we can imagine.
Bear in mind, Roosevelt governed in total opposition to his campaigning, and the US may well have a similar situation here.

Nothing to do with arm-chair hawks. It's one of the easiest types of fiscal stimulus. So it stays.
If by fiscal stimulus you mean "waste of money," then yes. Military spending is run incompetently at best and completely irresponsibly at worst.

And really, the army isn't very large at all.
Compared to what?
We have the second largest military behind China (the most populated country in the world) and ahead of India (the second most populated country in the world) - the US is a distant third in world population. It doesn't have the most troops per capita, but its annual budget is twice that of the entire EU which is second. The US military is obviously spending far too much on new weapons programs and maintaining legacy systems.

If by fiscal stimulus you mean "waste of money," then yes. Military spending is run incompetently at best and completely irresponsibly at worst.

Yes. Waste of money. That's the point of fiscal stimulus in a deflationary environment. Military spending is awesome in this respect because all the shit that is made just sits around not being used - or better yet gets blown up.

The last thing you want to do is spend the money on something useful, like domestic infrastructure, that only makes the problem worse.

Compared to what?
We have the second largest military behind China (the most populated country in the world) and ahead of India (the second most populated country in the world) - the US is a distant third in world population. It doesn't have the most troops per capita, but its annual budget is twice that of the entire EU which is second. The US military is obviously spending far too much on new weapons programs and maintaining legacy systems.

Compared to the available manpower pool.

CHICAGO -President-elect Obama has spoken to the president of Poland about relations between the two countries but didn't make a commitment on the multibillion-dollar missile defense program undertaken by the Bush administration, an Obama aide said Saturday.
That contrasts with a statement by Polish President Lech Kaczynski, who said Obama told him the missile defense project would continue.

There we go, thought I'd clarify this.

He's not going to cancel anything military. Very bad for the economy. Probably get a draft too to hide unemployment. That's the usual MO during a deflationary depression.

But all this would have happened whoever was president.

A draft would be political suicide, no matter which party or person proposes it.

Just the rumour of reinstating the draft is enough to cause people to go batshit.

Compared to the available manpower pool.
There are more people per capita imprisoned than in the military.

Compared to the available manpower pool.

The goal of most of our military research is to reduce the amount of manpower needed on the front lines. We can build machines far more quickly than the Chinese can expand their population and tap in to those available for military service, so an increasingly mechanized military renders population increasingly irrelevant.

I can see I'm going to have to get used to hearing people go "HOW ABOUT THAT 'CHANGE' HUH!?" anytime Obama does something that isn't ground-breakingly historical and unique. Ugh, that's going to be annoying.

A draft would be political suicide, no matter which party or person proposes it.

Just the rumour of reinstating the draft is enough to cause people to go batshit.

Haha, okay. That's why there has never been a draft.

Just wait until unemployment is at 20%. The older generation will gladly vote to ship people under 25 off.

The goal of most of our military research is to reduce the amount of manpower needed on the front lines. We can build machines far more quickly than the Chinese can expand their population and tap in to those available for military service, so an increasingly mechanized military renders population increasingly irrelevant.

I'm not talking about it from an ass kicking standpoint. Clearly, from that standpoint, 5 million canaries are a waste of time.

I'm talking about it as a deflation fighting measure.

It's the sort of thing the japanese should have done when they were running their public debt up.

I can see I'm going to have to get used to hearing people go "HOW ABOUT THAT 'CHANGE' HUH!?" anytime Obama does something that isn't ground-breakingly historical and unique. Ugh, that's going to be annoying.

That's going to be the mantra, that nothing changed and in the same breath anything that changed was for the worse. They're gonna grind that organ until 2012 in the hopes that someone dances to it.

I'm glad he likes the missile system now. I was furious when he said he would cut spending for it.

I'm glad he likes the missile system now. I was furious when he said he would cut spending for it.

Read my post on the previous page, he's not continuing with it.

To be perfectly honest, I support the so-called saber rattling at Russia because essentially all Russia is doing is whining about how they can't push around countries right next to them anymore.

Thing is, that's a GOOD thing. Russia doesn't have a right to push Poland around, or the Baltic countries, or Ukraine, or Georgia, or anyone else.

Admittedly essentially sticking ten middle fingers up at Russia is not the most diplomatic way to tell them this...

A draft would be political suicide, no matter which party or person proposes it.

Just the rumour of reinstating the draft is enough to cause people to go batshit.
Exactly. There were a number of people who voted against Kerry in '04, because he didn't match Bush in outright promising that there would be no draft, ever.
Haha, okay. That's why there has never been a draft.

Just wait until unemployment is at 20%. The older generation will gladly vote to ship people under 25 off.
There have been drafts, but they were not a reaction to economic difficulties, they were a way to put boots on the ground. Further, in the World Wars, the Draft had an entirely different connotation than it did now (for instance, it was a point of pride to be drafted, and a mark of shame to actually sign up because going voluntarily generally got one a "cushy" job).
It is possible that some form of National Service (ala Germany) might be instituted, if unemployment and crime start to become crippling, but that isn't the same thing. The most obvious difference being that National Service involves non-military alternatives.

Oh for...

the man's not in office yet. at least wait till after the Inaguration before putting forth claims of "he lied about this, he lied about that!"

let him stew about his most pressing choice at the moment. the selection of the First Dog!

http://www.newsmax.com/smith/barack_obama/2008/06/10/103236.html

That's even funnier; he's just planning to cut the military out of the US altogether.

Ah, this one... Notice the wording, it actually doesn't say anything precisely.
Also:
Army Times - McCain on FCS: Flip-flop or fib? (http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/defense_mccain_FCS_091208/)
notice the last paragraph:
F. Whitten Peters, a defense adviser for the Obama campaign and former secretary of the Air Force, confirmed that the Democratic candidate was talking about the Army program.
“Obama had said that he wanted to review FCS and he thought that he might want to slow the fielding,” Peters said. “His feeling is there really needs to be an overall strategic review of larger weapon programs to decide which ones are sufficiently important to keep going and which ones may need to be scaled back.”

I can see I'm going to have to get used to hearing people go "HOW ABOUT THAT 'CHANGE' HUH!?" anytime Obama does something that isn't ground-breakingly historical and unique. Ugh, that's going to be annoying.

Or when he doesn't do something that he said he would do. Basically, if you thought the left was heavy on Bush, you haven't seen anything yet.

Or when he doesn't do something that he said he would do.

Or when you pull shit out of your ass.

Which seems to be a disturbingly large percentage of the time.

Basically, if you thought the left was heavy on Bush, you haven't seen anything yet.

I guess pointing out that "the left" was heavy on Bush for damn good reasons, and you're being hard on Obama because you're irrational, angry and racist, is not going to affect you.

But luckily, since you're not even American, your trollish opinion can be safely dismissed.

To be perfectly honest, I support the so-called saber rattling at Russia because essentially all Russia is doing is whining about how they can't push around countries right next to them anymore.

Thing is, that's a GOOD thing. Russia doesn't have a right to push Poland around, or the Baltic countries, or Ukraine, or Georgia, or anyone else.

Admittedly essentially sticking ten middle fingers up at Russia is not the most diplomatic way to tell them this...

Indeed. And it's hardly just saber rattling. It's showing our allies in Eastern Europe, who are positvely shitting their pants due to Russia's bullying towards areas it deems 'its former influence', that we still support them and we will not let the Russias just rampaged across sovereign nations in Eastern Europe, like they did only a few decades ago.

To people sitting comfterably in nations that were free from Russia occupation, perhaps this seems ridiculous....but to the people in Eastern Europe, many of who genuinely hate the Russians, this is comforting and showing that their allies across the Atlantic have not forgotten about them.

This is a smart geo-political play designed to show to our allies in Eastern Europe.

I am hopeful that President Obama will continue with this policy.

Or when you pull shit out of your ass.

Which seems to be a disturbingly large percentage of the time.



I guess pointing out that "the left" was heavy on Bush for damn good reasons, and you're being hard on Obama because you're irrational, angry and racist, is not going to affect you.

But luckily, since you're not even American, your trollish opinion can be safely dismissed.

frankly, Obama made alot of promises. much more than GW Bush. It was those promises of change that got him elected. so people will be watching him. granted I hoped people would at least wait till he was sworn in as the 44th President before hopping on the smearwagon.

frankly, Obama made alot of promises. much more than GW Bush. It was those promises of change that got him elected. so people will be watching him.

Yes, but it is a strawman to assume that by "change" he meant "absolutely nothing will be the same ever again!"

as FO and others are doing.

And he's not even...

granted I hoped people would at least wait till he was sworn in as the 44th President before hopping on the smearwagon.

...yeah, that!

Yes, but it is a strawman to assume that by "change" he meant "absolutely nothing will be the same ever again!"!

That's sort of what "change" means. If we come out in 2016 and say "Wow, things are exactly the same/worse than in 2008", how is that change?

That's sort of what "change" means.

Change does not mean that everything is different.

Change does not mean that everything is different.

Obama said he's going to change America. That means I want everything fixed and up to and above Western standards in eight years.

Obama said he's going to change America. That means I want everything fixed and up to and above Western standards in eight years.

Obama also said you have to help too.

That's sort of what "change" means.

No. Change does not mean that if he hires someone with experience (OHNOES ESTABLISHMENT!), he's "not changing anything."

I wonder when you will understand this and quit trying to burn down that strawman with all that hot air.

Obama also said you have to help too.

Hey, he made promises, now he has to live up to them. What's all this handball it off to the people crap? If the American people wanted to fix this problem they would have elected themselves.

Haha, okay. That's why there has never been a draft.

"Never" been a draft? If you really believe that, you are hideously misinformed.

The draft was discontinued in 1973 when the United States moved to an all volunteer system.

"Never" been a draft? If you really believe that, you are hideously misinformed.

The draft was discontinued in 1973 when the United States moved to an all volunteer system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Indeed. And it's hardly just saber rattling. It's showing our allies in Eastern Europe, who are positvely shitting their pants due to Russia's bullying towards areas it deems 'its former influence', that we still support them and we will not let the Russias just rampaged across sovereign nations in Eastern Europe, like they did only a few decades ago.

To people sitting comfterably in nations that were free from Russia occupation, perhaps this seems ridiculous....but to the people in Eastern Europe, many of who genuinely hate the Russians, this is comforting and showing that their allies across the Atlantic have not forgotten about them.

This is a smart geo-political play designed to show to our allies in Eastern Europe.

I am hopeful that President Obama will continue with this policy.

Wow, I say WOW!
Strange then that the majority of the czech public opinion (over 70% by now according to polls) is against the radar. Strange indeed.
Strange that around half the public opinion in Czech Republic feel that Georgia went too far in provoking Russia because it tought it had US backup.
Strange indeed that the third party in Czech Republic is the Communist party and that support for this party is growing because of the opposition of said party to the radar.

Must be that I frequent the wrong people and read the wrong newspapers here in Prague...

Oh, and don't think that in Poland it is much better.

This is a dumb geopolitical move aimed at showing Russia that the US can buy the governments of former satellite states.

Oh, and don't think that in Poland it is much better.


In Poland: before the Russia-Georgia war, the majority was against that anti-missile shield... Then the war broke out and polls switched to "for". Plus, due to internal issues, it's doubtful that the Left will have any considerable power in foreseeable future (better yet, it was they who managed Poland into NATO and EU in the first place).

Ah, by the way, somebody mentioned "ten missile tubes". Is it about these Patriot missiles? They were a Polish request, to which the US weren't all that glad to comply.

Well, Kaczyński doesn't really count as a balanced source of information. He's been trying to make himself more important than he is since Tusk's election as a Prime Minister.

Anyways I have a ČTK article in Czech dated 12.09.2008 reporting that Obama said in an interview on FOX News that he is for completing the ABM shield in Europe.
Obama podpořil protiraketový štít ve střední Evropě (http://www.financninoviny.cz/tema/index_view.php?id=332949&id_seznam=6079)
So, I don't know if this is really news for me.

Maybe you can source when he said that he's against, because i couldn't find it.

That article is dated amonth from now??

That article is dated amonth from now??

He's either using international conventions for dates (day month year) or a time traveler. I'd prefer the latter, unless he's like John Titor, who was boring.

"Oh the fantastic waste of time this is. Ten anti-missile tubes in Poland is not a way to stop the Russians, it might as well be a spitball compared to their stocks. Unless he's actually deploying some kind of laser or something there, it sounds more like a way to casually insult Russia tbq."
---------------

Wrong, that's not what the missiles are for. They are against rouge states such as Iran. The US government has even told the Russians explicitly that it isn't aimed at them and that they could easily over-run it.


As for this article, President-elect Obama has said that the comments posted on the Polish president's website are not what he said.

Hey, he made promises, now he has to live up to them. What's all this handball it off to the people crap? If the American people wanted to fix this problem they would have elected themselves.

Translation: FO admits to being a lazy bum. Or he would be, if he was an American. Being Australian, the more likely conclusion is that he has a mouth full of sour grapes.

I believe FO's current tactic is to pile on all manner of unrealistic expectations on Obama, e.g. colonize Mars in 4 years, so that when they don't happen, he will be able to further reinforce his oddly frail ego with the "failures".

Obama said he's going to change America. That means I want everything fixed and up to and above Western standards in eight years.

http://sithoughts.mu.nu/archives/Strawman.jpg

^ This.

Translation: FO admits to being a lazy bum. Or he would be, if he was an American. Being Australian, the more likely conclusion is that he has a mouth full of sour grapes.

ALL Americans are lazy, and Obama's going to learn that the hard way.

I believe FO's current tactic is to pile on all manner of unrealistic expectations on Obama, e.g. colonize Mars in 4 years, so that when they don't happen, he will be able to further reinforce his oddly frail ego with the "failures".

I'm not piling expectations on Obama. He's the one who wants to create an American NHS.

ALL Americans are lazy, and Obama's going to learn that the hard way.
*Tries to reply...goes and has a snack instead*

To be honest this gives me respect for Obama. The missile defense shield may very well be needed. My worry was that the willingness to talk would become the willingness to back down. He seems be showing that while he is willing to talk he wont back down from threats.

ALL Americans are lazy, and Obama's going to learn that the hard way.

But not lazy enough to stay home instead of voting, unlike you Potato Boy.

:tongue:

ALL Americans are lazy, and Obama's going to learn that the hard way.

That's trolling, sir. Warned.

Wrong, that's not what the missiles are for. They are against rouge states such as Iran. The US government has even told the Russians explicitly that it isn't aimed at them and that they could easily over-run it.


As for this article, President-elect Obama has said that the comments posted on the Polish president's website are not what he said.

next time use the quote button to reply to someone's post, its easier for everyone.

That's trolling, sir. Warned.

Boy, it's always trolling when it's not from your side, isn't it?

ALL Americans are lazy, and Obama's going to learn that the hard way."Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." That kind of laziness? I for one am glad we again have a President that seems to expect more out of the American people.

And assuming this whole missile bit is true, how is it a bad thing that he changed his mind? He now has access to top-secret intel. Would you rather him pigheadedly refuse to change his way no matter what information came his way? I'd rather have a president that is willing to see other sides, who is willing to admit when he is wrong and take the necessary steps to fix it.

Boy, it's always trolling when it's not from your side, isn't it?

*Watches The wrath of Mod*

Boy, it's always trolling when it's not from your side, isn't it?

No. Only when you make ridiculous blanket statements about entire populations.

No. Only when you make ridiculous blanket statements about entire populations.

So if I said "All Republicans are lazy", that would be trolling?

They are against rouge states such as Iran.
Why are we prejudiced against states that wear makeup? That's "facism"!
As for this article, President-elect Obama has said that the comments posted on the Polish president's website are not what he said.
I would expect that what Obama actually said was more along the lines of his oft-stated position that "we only have one President at a time" and he is not going to contradict Bush while Bush is still in there.

So if I said "All Republicans are lazy", that would be trolling?

Yes. It's just as untrue and equally trollish.

To be honest, if Kat hadn't picked it up I wouldn't have even though twice about the statement "All Americans are lazy".

We have some very high expectations for Barack Obama, and as the excitement dies down in the coming week there are going to be some very small voices of doubt finally emerging from the woodwork after months of trumpeting a message of change. We'll see what happens.

I doubt that anything will happen to the Missile Shield in Poland. It's almost as if Russia is trying to turn this into their Cuban Missile Crisis, only this time they can't launch a blockade or really do anything about it. The differences far outweigh the similarities, but obviously Russia is counting on international support against the American and Polish "aggressor".

So if I said "All Republicans are lazy", that would be trolling?

Yes. That would be equally trolling. All X are Y is trolling.

Boy, it's always trolling when it's not from your side, isn't it?


If you're seriously accusing Katganistan of biased modding, take it to the Moderation forum, not here. But here's a tip: you are going to need proof. No-one else, in all the years Kat's been modding, has come up with a scintilla of evidence, through all the typically overheated internet controversies that sites like this have; that should tell you something.

(I think we once proved she ate the last shortbread biscuit, though. :D)

Seems to me you need to read The One-Stop Rules Shop (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) more attentively. Notice the first sentence (I've added the emphasis):

Trolling: Posts that are made with the aim of angering people, (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). While Trolls often make these posts strictly in an attempt to provoke negative comment, it is still trolling even if you actually hold those beliefs. Intent is difficult to prove over the internet, so mods will work under their best assumptions.

Note that posts of opinions you disagree with does not automatically equate with trolling. Disagreements are expected, as long as they are done in a civil manner. Max Barry has made it clear that he welcomes all opinions in civil debate, even those that are highly unpopular or minority-held. Make your case without the invective, if you want to avoid banishment as a Troll.

Trolling is also is used to refer to making obviously silly topics that people nonetheless will reply to, despite all common sense. Don't feed the trolls.

You might also like to consider this:

Mod Oppression and Mod Bias: NationStates moderation is based on acting against rule-breaking in the games and the forums. Political opinions do not factor into official decisions by moderators. We make our rulings and interpretations as official representatives of NationStates, and are acting in the name of Max Barry. Our only agenda is RULES ENFORCEMENT. It's often the case that posters who lack the control to post within the rules also hold strong opinions on other matters, and it may appear that the mods are suppressing a particular viewpoint. This is NOT the case. Anyone who shares that viewpoint and manages to post within the rules is welcome to express their opinion.

Now, if you'd like a little time away from the game to follow up the link and think about all this new information, that can be arranged. All you have to do is ignore the rules, we'll look after the travel arrangements.

EDIT: Non Aligned States, cut this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14189191&postcount=61) out, too.

I'm not piling expectations on Obama.

Your posts on this thread prove this statement to be a lie.

Considering Russia barely waited a few hours after he was elected to announce them pulling a missile crisis.

Russia is trying to get Obama to blink.

Biden was right, but I don't think he meant this soon.

Sheesh Putin, wait for him to get into office at least!

So if I said "All Republicans are lazy", that would be trolling?
Bingo.

Hey, Poland is letting us, and wants us too. Its not like its a bad idea, or violating anyones sovereignty.


I didnt care when George was doing it. I dont care that Obama is continuing it.

Considering Russia barely waited a few hours after he was elected to announce them pulling a missile crisis.

Russia is trying to get Obama to blink.

Biden was right, but I don't think he meant this soon.

Sheesh Putin, wait for him to get into office at least!

Of course, this could also be more of a last-minute In Your Face at Cowboy George before (a presumably more reasonable and level-headed) Obama takes office next year.

Of course, this could also be more of a last-minute In Your Face at Cowboy George before (a presumably more reasonable and level-headed) Obama takes office next year.I thought people would be more afraid of "Muslimatheistterroristanti-christ" Obama, than "Cowboy George". :p

If you can't tell, I'm joking.

Hey, Poland is letting us, and wants us too. Its not like its a bad idea, or violating anyones sovereignty.


I didnt care when George was doing it. I dont care that Obama is continuing it.I'm wondering how FO came up with "How about that change huh?" simply because we're doing something that Poland actually wants us to do.
I thought the whole point was to get us more in touch with the rest of the world.

I'm wondering how FO came up with "How about that change huh?" simply because we're doing something that Poland actually wants us to do.
I thought the whole point was to get us more in touch with the rest of the world.

Potato Boy's scrabbling for any flimsy pretense that will supposedly let him prove Barack Obama is a Big Fat Lying Closet Muslim Terrorist Sympathizer.

Potato Boy's scrabbling for any flimsy pretense that will supposedly let him prove Barack Obama is a Big Fat Lying Closet Muslim Terrorist Sympathizer.

Why do people keep calling FeO, potato boy? Is there some reference I am missing?

Potato Boy's scrabbling for any flimsy pretense that will supposedly let him prove Barack Obama is a Big Fat Lying Closet Muslim Terrorist Sympathizer.Interesting. I'll keep your opinion in mind.

Why do people keep calling FeO, potato boy? Is there some reference I am missing?

He's The Artist Formerly Known As The Potato Factory.

He's The Artist Formerly Known As The Potato Factory.

I have heard people call him that too, what does it mean?

I have heard people call him that too, what does it mean?

Look up the user name The Potato Factory and its posting history.

Ah ok I see that was his old account name. Not that I can look him up as the account name is no longer on the servers.

I am to young on these forums to remember him.

I believe FO's current tactic is to pile on all manner of unrealistic expectations on Obama, e.g. colonize Mars in 4 years
I can colonise Mars... Just depends on what it is being colonised with (rocket with a parachuting bacteria pod here we go!). :p

If you're seriously accusing Katganistan of biased modding, take it to the Moderation forum, not here. But here's a tip: you are going to need proof. No-one else, in all the years Kat's been modding, has come up with a scintilla of evidence, through all the typically overheated internet controversies that sites like this have; that should tell you something.

Can I accuse the mods of being biased in favour of the rules? :p Please don't hurt me.

Potato Boy's scrabbling for any flimsy pretense that will supposedly let him prove Barack Obama is a Big Fat Lying Closet Muslim Terrorist Sympathizer.

He said he wouldn't do this, and he intend to do it. That's a lie. Lie number one.

I'm actually considering setting up a site to list his lies throughout his presidency.

He said he wouldn't do this, and he intend to do it. That's a lie. Lie number one.


Yes, a lie propagated by you, since we never actually see him saying he would now do we? But it's hardly your first lie here on NSG.

He said he wouldn't do this, and he intend to do it. That's a lie. Lie number one.

I'm actually considering setting up a site to list his lies throughout his presidency.

The guy hasnt even been sworn in yet, and youre already calling a witch hunt?

Whats your deal?

Is it becuase he won a landslide victory againt an inferior, and ancient, out of touch opponent?

Is it becuase hes a Liberal, and America decided that the other side has screwed things up so horribly, they would rather see a young, relatively inexperienced man instead?

Or....are you a racist, and just cant get past his the color of his skin, so youre already condemning him before he even takes office?

Because, frankly, I cant see why you would go to such lengths to do something like that, especially since people are excited about the President-Elect for the first time since the Carter Administration.

If you cant even give the guy a chance, there must be a reason for it.

He said he wouldn't do this, and he intend to do it. That's a lie. Lie number one.

I'm actually considering setting up a site to list his lies throughout his presidency.

Okay, we admit it. Obama is a commie terrorist arab who wants to turn America into a caliphate.

And he would've gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for Potato Boy and his darn intertubes!

Okay, we admit it. Obama is a commie terrorist arab who wants to turn America into a caliphate.

And he would've gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for Potato Boy and his darn intertubes!Quiet or we'll kick you out of the cult!

The guy hasnt even been sworn in yet, and youre already calling a witch hunt?

Whats your deal?

Is it becuase he won a landslide victory againt an inferior, and ancient, out of touch opponent?

Is it becuase hes a Liberal, and America decided that the other side has screwed things up so horribly, they would rather see a young, relatively inexperienced man instead?

Or....are you a racist, and just cant get past his the color of his skin, so youre already condemning him before he even takes office?

Because, frankly, I cant see why you would go to such lengths to do something like that, especially since people are excited about the President-Elect for the first time since the Carter Administration.

If you cant even give the guy a chance, there must be a reason for it.

Basically, all three. I know I was right about this election, and we're gonna have a fun four to eight years proving it.

Basically, all three. I know I was right about this election, and we're gonna have a fun four to eight years proving it.

I'm a little surprised you actually admit to being racist.

That's a lie.
You're a lie. (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20081108%5CACQDJON200811081249DOWJONESDJONLINE000320.htm&SourceCode=&mypage=newsheadlines&title=Obama%20Made%20'No%20Commitment'%20On%20Missile%20Shield%20-%20Aide)

You're a lie. (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20081108%5CACQDJON200811081249DOWJONESDJONLINE000320.htm&SourceCode=&mypage=newsheadlines&title=Obama%20Made%20'No%20Commitment'%20On%20Missile%20Shield%20-%20Aide)

Now, now, if Rust here was a fabrication, this little bit of truth would have rendered him into itty bitty pieces, or better yet, insubstantial. I would wager that the odious personality and meat shell that houses it is still quite intact and disappointingly functional.

I'm a little surprised you actually admit to being racist.

Everybody's racist. Anybody who says they're not is a liar. It's just about how racist you are.

I'm annoyed that now, whites have pretty much nothing. Asians have China, Arabs have the oil states, blacks have the US. What have we got, Russia? That derelict, frozen hulk of a state?

Everybody's racist. Anybody who says they're not is a liar. It's just about how racist you are.

I'm annoyed that now, whites have pretty much nothing. Asians have China, Arabs have the oil states, blacks have the US. What have we got, Russia? That derelict, frozen hulk of a state?
You can't be serious.

You're a lie. (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20081108%5CACQDJON200811081249DOWJONESDJONLINE000320.htm&SourceCode=&mypage=newsheadlines&title=Obama%20Made%20'No%20Commitment'%20On%20Missile%20Shield%20-%20Aide)

I'm not too bothered to be honest; if he goes on with it, he's a liar, if he doesn't, he's kowtowing to the Russians. It's pretty much lose-lose.

You can't be serious.

If you're referring to the standard of living, that's hardly a type of power.

Everybody's racist. Anybody who says they're not is a liar. It's just about how racist you are.Everyone is prejudiced, but not everyone is racist. Being racist is about how you act just as much as about how you feel.
I'm annoyed that now, whites have pretty much nothing. Asians have China, Arabs have the oil states, blacks have the US. What have we got, Russia? That derelict, frozen hulk of a state?Whites have blogs. Get one and spare us the drivvel.

Doctorow!

Basically, all three. I know I was right about this election, and we're gonna have a fun four to eight years proving it.

So, lets take a look at what you've just admitted to.

You object to Obama, becuase he won the Presidency by the largest margin in a long time.
In fact, states that ordinarily vote Republican every time, went for Obama instead.

Perhaps its becuase the american people are sick and tired of watching the office of the presidency used as a weapon against the very same people who voted him in?

You object to a Liberal president becuase the people want one?

How very patriotic of you.

As for the race issue, Im not going to bother trying to change your mind about that.
I dont care why youre a racist, and I dont care if your parents were/are before you.
Ive dealt before on this forum with folks like you, and Im not going have any impact on how you view other races or cultures.

I'll just say this:

For the first time that I can remember, and Ive been a registered voter since the late 90's,
I see and hear people talking about how excited they are about the new President.
Theyre saying they can feel good about the man who is going to be our next President.
Theyre saying that it feels GOOD to be an American again.

How many Western Nations can say that they have elected a Black Man (Mulato, whatever), to the highest office in thier countries?
England? France? Canada? Germany? Any of em?

But WE did.

That old way, and by that I mean your way, is the past.
You can either change with the times, or get left behind.

Now, now, if Rust here was a fabrication, this little bit of truth would have rendered him into itty bitty pieces, or better yet, insubstantial. I would wager that the odious personality and meat shell that houses it is still quite intact and disappointingly functional.

Warned. Second time in this thread, and for the same thing. You really want to try for three?

I'm annoyed that now, whites have pretty much nothing. Asians have China,
Han Chinese 'have' China (Peoples Republic and Republic, though Republic has become better over decade).

Arabs have the oil states,
Arabic ethic groups are the majority in Russia, U.S.A, Venezuela, Canada, Mexico (Russia/Venezuela if you want the oil to be a massive direct component)?

blacks have the US.
Well, they 'have' approx ~10% in population terms...

Question to others: Didn't most of the African-Americans come from West Africa?

What have we got, Russia? That derelict, frozen hulk of a state?
Frozen bits - Not settled a lot.

Russia - Many different ethnic groups, unless you count. Also not a Zimbabwe in economic terms, so it's not really derelict.

Who is 'we'? Does that include, *looks at wikipedia* Russians, Tatars, Ukrainians, Bashkirs, Chuvashs, Chechens and Armenians?

What everyone needs to do is interbreed with 'different' people. I know I'm ready to do my part. ;)


How many Western Nations can say that they have elected a Black Man (Mulato, whatever), to the highest office in thier countries?
England? France? Canada? Germany? Any of em?

If you want to go down that path then consider this - Britain and Germany have elected females to PM/Chancellor. :p

How many Western Nations can say that they have elected a Black Man (Mulato, whatever), to the highest office in thier countries?
England? France? Canada? Germany? Any of em?

But WE did.

Are you implying that electing a person with a darker skin to the highest office in ones country makes the country somehow better? Are non-white politicians somehow inherently better than white? Never mind the fact that some of the countries mentioned have elected women to their highest office.

All in all, the quoted comment seems rather shallow.

How many Western Nations can say that they have elected a Black Man (Mulato, whatever), to the highest office in thier countries?
England? France? Canada? Germany? Any of em?

But WE did.

How many African states have elected a white man to their highest office?

And why in god's name would Germany have a black Chancellor? Their black population is tiny.

Are you implying that electing a person with a darker skin to the highest office in ones country makes the country somehow better? Are non-white politicians somehow inherently better than white? Never mind the fact that some of the countries mentioned have elected women to their highest office.

All in all, the quoted comment seems rather shallow.


If you knew anything about American History, from slavery on down to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's, you might understand why this is significant.
This is a very important moment in equality for us.

Americans have done extremely shitty things in the past to other Americans simply based on the color of thier skins. In this, we are no different than many other countries.
However, such blatant racisism has been with us from the onset. Ask your average Native American how they were/are treated.

This is a giant leap in the right direction.

How many African states have elected a white man to their highest office?

And why in god's name would Germany have a black Chancellor? Their black population is tiny.

South Africa?

Why in Gods name, not?

If you want to go down that path then consider this - Britain and Germany have elected females to PM/Chancellor. :p
And the UK has had, for some time now, black and Asian MPs, along with openly gay MPs.

Yay us and our woosy liberalism.



And why in god's name would Germany have a black Chancellor? Their black population is tiny.
Not everyone harbours the bizarre notion that people with certain skin pigmentations can only represent others of their own skin pigmentation, or that an ethnic minority representing an ethnic majority is somehow A Bad Thing.



This is a very important moment in equality for us.
Yup, know we know that a black man can succeed at anything... as long as he can afford $600 million on advertising.

Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty we're free (and rich) at last.

If you want to go down that path then consider this - Britain and Germany have elected females to PM/Chancellor. :p

True.
Thats a hurdle we have yet to overcome. However, had Hilary won the nomination of her party, she would be President-Elect.

However, in some places, New Hampshire, for instance, women comprise some 54% of the governing body. So, in that regard, we arent too far behind the times.

And the UK has had, for some time now, black and Asian MPs, along with openly gay MPs.

Yay us and our woosy liberalism.

Hey!

Damn right yay you!

Score one for woosy Liberalism.

Now if you can just get rid of the BNP party, that would be fine.

OR..you can just send em here, and we can stick em in Texas and just fence the whole place up.

Yup, know we know that a black man can succeed at anything... as long as he can afford $600 million on advertising.

Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty we're free (and rich) at last.

Wich he earned how?

Thats right public donations.

Americans donating 5 and 20 bucks to his campaign.

Now if you can just get rid of the BNP party, that would be fine.
You'll have to vote them out of the GLA first.

Americans donating 5 and 20 bucks to his campaign.
That's a lovely story.

Shame it ain't true (http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do?cand_id=P80003338).

How very patriotic of you.

Hang on, FeO isn't a Yank so what has this got to do with anything. And even if he was what would it have to do with anything.

Warned. Second time in this thread, and for the same thing. You really want to try for three?

I could see meat shell, despite the fact that unless any of us are machines or trees, we all are, but odious personality? That strikes me as fairly inoffensive by the average standards of NSG. Is that really an actionable offense?

That's a lovely story.

Shame it ain't true (http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do?cand_id=P80003338).

$200 and below category is roughly equal to all other categories combined.]

Thats a funny kind of refutation...

The guy hasnt even been sworn in yet, and youre already calling a witch hunt?

Whats your deal?

Is it becuase he won a landslide victory againt an inferior, and ancient, out of touch opponent?

Is it becuase hes a Liberal, and America decided that the other side has screwed things up so horribly, they would rather see a young, relatively inexperienced man instead?

Or....are you a racist, and just cant get past his the color of his skin, so youre already condemning him before he even takes office?

Because, frankly, I cant see why you would go to such lengths to do something like that, especially since people are excited about the President-Elect for the first time since the Carter Administration.

If you cant even give the guy a chance, there must be a reason for it.

Basically, all three. I know I was right about this election, and we're gonna have a fun four to eight years proving it.

Oh yes, proof that you're still a Romper Stompers extra who pines for the days of The Axis of Complicity?

Here's a pic to stir your fond memories Potato Boy:

http://peoplesgeography.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/bush-blair-howard-team-war.jpg

And here's something you desperately need:

http://www.medgadget.com/archives/img/pacifier.jpg

I could see meat shell, despite the fact that unless any of us are machines or trees, we all are, but odious personality? That strikes me as fairly inoffensive by the average standards of NSG. Is that really an actionable offense?


Continuing to flame someone (however low-temp you may consider the flame to be) after being told to stop is an actionable offence.

It's not a matter of the specific words used. It's the fact that you're addressing the person behind the post, not his arguments, and that the tone in which you choose to address him is abusive.

Honestly, it's simple: play nice.

So if I said "All Republicans are lazy", that would be trolling?

yes and see above

And the UK has had, for some time now, black and Asian MPs, along with openly gay MPs.

Yay us and our woosy liberalism.
What does woosy mean?

Yup, know we know that a black man can succeed at anything... as long as he can afford $600 million on advertising.

Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty we're free (and rich) at last.
Which brings up a couple of interesting question:
-Will it be just as expensive in the next U.S.A election?
-Will the repubs bother spending a lot of money (and instead hoard the max they can legally for 2016) in 2012?
-Did GWB ever give up his coke habit?

Ah, making fun of GWB, I will miss you.

Oh the fantastic waste of time this is. Ten anti-missile tubes in Poland is not a way to stop the Russians, it might as well be a spitball compared to their stocks. Unless he's actually deploying some kind of laser or something there, it sounds more like a way to casually insult Russia tbq.
The US has never said these are for Russian missiles. The US has continually said that the missile shield is for Iranian missiles just as the one in Cali and Alaska is meant to shoot down North Korean Taepo Dongs.

Iran won't have a large missile inventory like Russia does so you don't need that many.

Besides, if we were building a system to shoot down Russian missiles, we would put it in Iceland, Canada, or Western Europe instead of Eastern Europe.

I think when Obama realises the delicate balancing plate that is global politics, he'll rethink a lot of his campaign rhetoric. Quite frankly, the Chicago Machine is more pragmatic than liberal or conservative, and he's walking into quite a mess.
I understand he's already looking seriously at the Reagan economy, and recreating it-and Reagan's political victories were much more impressive than his. The Chicago philosophy is corrupt, but incredibly competant, so more may be going on than we can imagine.
Bear in mind, Roosevelt governed in total opposition to his campaigning, and the US may well have a similar situation here.

You hit the Chicago philosophy right on the head. Mayor Daley is a fucking corrupt dick who belongs in a federal penitentiary, but he gets shit done.

If you knew anything about American History, from slavery on down to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's, you might understand why this is significant.
This is a very important moment in equality for us.

Americans have done extremely shitty things in the past to other Americans simply based on the color of thier skins. In this, we are no different than many other countries.
However, such blatant racisism has been with us from the onset. Ask your average Native American how they were/are treated.

This is a giant leap in the right direction.

I fail to see how you addressed my post there. I know something about American history, infact I dare say I know quite a lot about it. I agree it is a step or even a giant leap in the right direction.

However I can't see that "Electing a black man in the highest position in a country" magically makes one country morally/ethically better than a country that hasn't done so.

This is going to sound somewhat repetitive but seeing as you didn't answer my question I'll go ahead and type it again.

How many Western Nations can say that they have elected a Black Man (Mulato, whatever), to the highest office in thier countries?
England? France? Canada? Germany? Any of em?

But WE did.

You seem to be implying here that England, France, Canada and Germany are somehow worse countries than USA because they haven't voted a black man in the highest office possible. If you are then I'm saying that your comment seems a bit shallow.

Everybody's racist. Anybody who says they're not is a liar. It's just about how racist you are.

I'm annoyed that now, whites have pretty much nothing. Asians have China, Arabs have the oil states, blacks have the US. What have we got, Russia? That derelict, frozen hulk of a state?

You can't be serious.No, he has a point. We don't even have God anymore as of 2003:
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/Images/Morgan-Freeman-God.jpg

England? France? Germany?

Not many blacks in any of these, particularly Germany.

So, how about that change, huh?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24622551-23109,00.html

Yeah, because it's not like he said he wouldn't go through with this. Except for that one time when he did.

Depends on which part.

PAC-3 and SM-3 are already operational, and already are known to work.

PAC-3 was tested in combat during OIF, and successfully shot down ripple-fired short range ballistic missiles.

SM-3 worked in tests as well as shooting down a satellite.

The GBI has real problems. That's the long range land based missile.

Wait, I just realized this: There are two conflicting statements. One is a lie. Many people believe the statement by the American leader is true.

The word of an American Administration (even if it isn't in power yet) is worth something again! =D

Why are we even debating this when I quoted Obama himself as saying this was false on page 2?

I think the biggest shock from Obama's presidency will be had by those who think Obama is a secret Muslim who was going to take away freedom of religion and institute Sharia Law. The next biggest group of shocked folks will be the ones who think Obama is the most liberal candidate ever to seek any kind of office and plans on taking away their guns.

Wow, I say WOW!
Strange then that the majority of the czech public opinion (over 70% by now according to polls) is against the radar. Strange indeed.
Strange that around half the public opinion in Czech Republic feel that Georgia went too far in provoking Russia because it tought it had US backup.
Strange indeed that the third party in Czech Republic is the Communist party and that support for this party is growing because of the opposition of said party to the radar.

Must be that I frequent the wrong people and read the wrong newspapers here in Prague...

Oh, and don't think that in Poland it is much better.

This is a dumb geopolitical move aimed at showing Russia that the US can buy the governments of former satellite states.

Most mainstream media in the U.S. reported that Russia sneak-attacked Georgia, who was minding it's own business. They left out the part where Georgia attacked Ossetia first and was slaughtering civilians.

This is one reason why public opinion may seem off depending where one lives.

I think the biggest shock from Obama's presidency will be had by those who think Obama is a secret Muslim who was going to take away freedom of religion and institute Sharia Law. The next biggest group of shocked folks will be the ones who think Obama is the most liberal candidate ever to seek any kind of office and plans on taking away their guns.

I disagree. Said peoples are clearly not concerned with facts when forming opinions so to expect them to be shocked by facts requires them to pay attention to facts in the first place. Which they don't.

and was slaughtering civilians

No-one's ever managed to prove that, so I'd like to see your new and reliable source, please.

You'll have to vote them out of the GLA first.


That's a lovely story.

Shame it ain't true (http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do?cand_id=P80003338).

Size of Donations
$200 and Under $280,011,968
$200.01 - $499 $62,529,046
$500 - $999 $50,569,508
$1000 - $1999 $67,271,432
$2000 and Over $106,807,957

Your own link implies it's true, try again.

I think that Obama is lacking enough in character as a person that he's going to do whatever his advisor's tell him. This means he's either going to do really well like President Regan, or going to get burnt by the bad advice like President Bush. I think it's all riding on how good of advisers he surrounds himself with. But if he relies on himself, he'll probably screw things up worse than a elementary school nurse trying to do neurosurgery - the Presidency is out of his league, IMO.

I think that Obama is lacking enough in character as a person that he's going to do whatever his advisor's tell him. This means he's either going to do really well like President Regan, or going to get burnt by the bad advice like President Bush. I think it's all riding on how good of advisers he surrounds himself with. But if he relies on himself, he'll probably screw things up worse than a elementary school nurse trying to do neurosurgery - the Presidency is out of his league, IMO.

why would you presume any of that? The man is a constitutional scholar, a Harvard educated lawyer, an author of two books and a US senator. What about that makes it sound like the presidency is "out of his league"?

why would you presume any of that? The man is a constitutional scholar, a Harvard educated lawyer, an author of two books and a US senator. What about that makes it sound like the presidency is "out of his league"?

That doesn't make him a military expert, or a military technology expert.

His expertise in that area is probably no different than that of a burger flipper.

Biden is especially and classically idiotic in that area.

That doesn't make him a military expert, or a military technology expert.

And the best military man doesn't know shit all about the economy. And the world's economic experts know very little about natural resource development

etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

No president in the history of this country has been well versed in every subject to sufficiently handle every aspect of the job without briefings and advisers. If Obama's lack of knowledge in some areas made him unqualified, then every single president we've ever had is unqualified.

And the best military man doesn't know shit all about the economy. And the world's economic experts know very little about natural resource development

etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

No president in the history of this country has been well versed in every subject to sufficiently handle every aspect of the job without briefings and advisers. If Obama's lack of knowledge in some areas made him unqualified, then every single president we've ever had is unqualified.

Damn good point.

While I didn't vote for Obama, I hope he does well as president, for the country's sake.

On topic:
I'm fine with the missile shield, provided that all countries we place them in are fine with it.

That doesn't make him a military expert, or a military technology expert.

His expertise in that area is probably no different than that of a burger flipper.

Biden is especially and classically idiotic in that area.

And being a groundpounder somehow makes you an expert in the operational reliability of a theater missile defense system then?

That doesn't make him a military expert, or a military technology expert.

His expertise in that area is probably no different than that of a burger flipper.


And he knows this. The man has shown time and time again that he is willing to acknowledge that people know more than him about certian things, and will listen to their advice.

Biden is especially and classically idiotic in that area.

How so? One would imagine you dont get to be head of the forgein relation committee of the senate without knowing anything.

why would you presume any of that? The man is a constitutional scholar, a Harvard educated lawyer, an author of two books and a US senator. What about that makes it sound like the presidency is "out of his league"?

Because he is a Fan of Harry Potter. *nod*

Because he is a Fan of Harry Potter. *nod*

I did seriously question his ability to lead when I heard this.

I did seriously question his ability to lead when I heard this.

Even more damning he went to a potter book release party in costume.
I say he be impeached and Jesse Jackson be made president.

Even more damning he went to a potter book release party in costume.


Oh God. Please tell me there are pics of this.

Oh God. Please tell me there are pics of this.

http://wardsmythe.com/barack_potter.gif

What does woosy mean?
To be woosy is to be feeble, unsure, cowardly, etc.



$200 and below category is roughly equal to all other categories combined.

Thats a funny kind of refutation...

Your own link implies it's true, try again.
I don't need to "try again"; it's a good refutation.

The idea that Obama was solely financed by tiny donations the likes of $5 or $20 is simply not true, as shown by my link.

Perhaps Backwoods wasn't being quite that literal, wasn't meaning that Obama's campaign was solely being financed by tiny donations the likes of $5 or $20, and in that case I'd quite agree. I'm certainly not denying Obama's campaign was financed in any way by donations; just that a good deal of those donations were extremely large.

On a more general note, I've got a funny (and not in a good way) feeling about much of the talk I've heard from many people; talk which seems to imply that Obama's victory was a tipping-point in race-relations/the ending of racism in the US. Now, I realise the vast majority of folks don't think that the events last week marked the end of racism, though the cries of "Free at last!" rather confused me, and I appreciate the symbolic victory of a Black US American becoming President.

But I worry that the victory is little more than just that: symbolic.

EDIT: There's an interesting article on this subject by Gary Younge here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/01/obama-race-black-americans-equality), courtesy of The Grauniad.

The idea that Obama was solely financed by tiny donations the likes of $5 or $20 is simply not true, as shown by my link.

Perhaps Backwoods wasn't being quite that literal, wasn't meaning that Obama's campaign was solely being financed by tiny donations the likes of $5 or $20, and in that case I'd quite agree.

That is exactly what I meant. Certainly his campaign wasnt financed solely by small donations, but as your link points out. Small donations were twice that of large donations.
In essence it was these small donations that made the difference.


On a more general note, I've got a funny (and not in a good way) feeling about much of the talk I've heard from many people; talk which seems to imply that Obama's victory was a tipping-point in race-relations/the ending of racism in the US. Now, I realise the vast majority of folks don't think that the events last week marked the end of racism, though the cries of "Free at last!" rather confused me, and I appreciate the symbolic victory of a Black US American becoming President.

But I worry that the victory is little more than just that: symbolic.


No one thinks that just becuase Obama got elected, racism is dead.
However, symbols can be very powerful.
What does a swastika instantly represent these days?
Certainly not what it once did.

Such a symbol can be a extremely vivid reminder for both positive and negative.
No, racism isnt quite dead yet, but the mere fact that Obama did get elected, does mean that an overwhelming majority of Americans are past all that, or at least, come a long way to accepting other races and cultures.

Its not a total victory against hatred, but it IS very important.

I think that Obama is lacking enough in character as a person that he's going to do whatever his advisor's tell him. This means he's either going to do really well like President Regan, or going to get burnt by the bad advice like President Bush. I think it's all riding on how good of advisers he surrounds himself with. But if he relies on himself, he'll probably screw things up worse than a elementary school nurse trying to do neurosurgery - the Presidency is out of his league, IMO.

Not even.

Obama taught constitutional law at Harvard.
That means hes extremely intellectual. It would be very hard for him to find a situation he could not think his way out of. That doesnt mean hes had a half-century of experience in politics, however, and that is where his advisors will come in.

What does the President swear to do at the innauguration?

He swears to uphold the Constitution.
I would think someone who used to teach that very subject at one of the finest schools in the world would know exactly how to do that very thing.

That doesn't make him a military expert, or a military technology expert.

His expertise in that area is probably no different than that of a burger flipper.

Biden is especially and classically idiotic in that area.

He could always ask Colin Powell. That endorsement may prove useful after all

On a more general note, I've got a funny (and not in a good way) feeling about much of the talk I've heard from many people; talk which seems to imply that Obama's victory was a tipping-point in race-relations/the ending of racism in the US. Now, I realise the vast majority of folks don't think that the events last week marked the end of racism, though the cries of "Free at last!" rather confused me, and I appreciate the symbolic victory of a Black US American becoming President.

But I worry that the victory is little more than just that: symbolic.Actually, I'd argue that it's silly for a different reason - if racism was still a significant problem, he wouldn't have been elected.

He's either using international conventions for dates (day month year) or a time traveler. I'd prefer the latter, unless he's like John Titor, who was boring.

Both.

The date format in Czech Republic is day-month-year. The date of the article was the 12th of september 2008.
My real name is Woodrow Wilson Smith aka Lazarus Long ;)

Wrong, that's not what the missiles are for. They are against rouge states such as Iran. The US government has even told the Russians explicitly that it isn't aimed at them and that they could easily over-run it.

And you believe this story?
Those missiles are supposed to be of use against Iran and North Korea.
Still believe this story?

He could always ask Colin Powell. That endorsement may prove useful after all

Colin liked the four missile defense systems (PAC-3, SM-3, GBI, and Airborne Laser).

This means he's either going to do really well like President Regan

I hope your 'well' is only in the political sense...

That is exactly what I meant. Certainly his campaign wasnt financed solely by small donations, but as your link points out. Small donations were twice that of large donations.
In essence it was these small donations that made the difference.

I wouldn't call '$200 or under' a small amount...

He could always ask Colin Powell. That endorsement may prove useful after all

You could also argue that the aquisitions part of the U.S.A military doesn't know anything either, considering the amount of bribing/lobbying that seems to exist in the military itself...

I wouldn't call '$200 or under' a small amount...


under election law it is.

under election law it is.


Being curious, I typed my surname into that donations-details site, and found that while many of the small donors' contributions add up to more than $200, they are often made up of really small $5s and $20s. For example, one woman I evidently share a clan with started donating to Obama's campaign back in early 2006 with $5, but went on in a series of small donations to almost $500 by the time the campaign was over.

So in a way you're both right. The donations were genuinely small, but they added up to genuinely big for one individual.

(BTW, Chumblywumbly, were you a reader of Private Eye ? Prompted by your The Grauniad reference to The Guardian. :D)

(BTW, Chumblywumbly, were you a reader of Private Eye ? Prompted by your The Grauniad reference to The Guardian. :D)

Don't know about Chumbly, but from my experience it's been part of general UK slang since at least as far back as the 80s.
Along with the Torygraph, the Indescribablyboring and the Daily Wail.

To be woosy is to be feeble, unsure, cowardly, etc.
I've usually seen it spelled "wussy" (not that there's exactly a standard spelling: there are no wrong answers here!)

That is exactly what I meant. Certainly his campaign wasnt financed solely by small donations, but as your link points out. Small donations were twice that of large donations.
In essence it was these small donations that made the difference.
You could argue either way; the big donations made a difference also.

No one thinks that just becuase Obama got elected, racism is dead.
Quite.

However, symbols can be very powerful.
Indeed, though they can also have little practical impact.



Actually, I'd argue that it's silly for a different reason - if racism was still a significant problem, he wouldn't have been elected.
If racism isn't a significant problem, then why is the fact that the President-elect has certain skin pigmentation an important thing to most folks, rather than simply being a novel thing?

I don't think that most of the celebration of Obama's victory (minus the, 'yaay, no more Bush' celebrations) was because he is the first Black President-elect, but because he is a Black President-elect.

However, I don't want to labour the point; I see the significance of Obama's election, and I will eagerly wait to see its practical effects.



BTW, Chumblywumbly, were you a reader of Private Eye ? Prompted by your The Grauniad reference to The Guardian.

Don't know about Chumbly, but from my experience it's been part of general UK slang since at least as far back as the 80s.
Along with the Torygraph, the Indescribablyboring and the Daily Wail.
Or the Daily Heil, and many others.

Personally, however, I was referencing PI.