NationStates Jolt Archive

Why are we Brits talking about the breakthrough of black president in America when a much more important sectarian breakthrough happened within our own boarders? Just the other day the Royal Irish marched through Belfast and not one shot was fired, not one bomb went off, not one riot rocked the city. This is something that would’ve been imposable 30,20 or even 10 years ago and this is something we Brits should be proud of and what we should be talking about in NSG this week.

First to care: an American of Italian/German/French/Russian ancestry. Sorry.

But...Yay for the Irish in avoiding violence.

No violence? No bombs?

Really, how long can you talk about something that DIDN'T happen?:p

Why are we Brits talking about the breakthrough of black president in America when a much more important sectarian breakthrough happened within our own boarders? Just the other day the Royal Irish marched through Belfast and not one shot was fired, not one bomb went off, not one riot rocked the city. This is something that would’ve been imposable 30,20 or even 10 years ago and this is something we Brits should be proud of and what we should be talking about in NSG this week.

the reason is because they were all watching the US elections thus no one noticed. :D

I don’t know, I think this is just part of my larger gripe that the BBC tends to ignore N.I news. For example, I can’t remember the details btw, but a few weeks ago the police found a pretty big bomb planted by dissident republicans along some road. Was this on the national news? No, but it had half a page on the BBC news website. Compared to the many articles on Sarah Palin’s shopping habits, I think it’s quite disgraceful.

I don’t know, I think this is just part of my larger gripe that the BBC tends to ignore N.I news. For example, I can’t remember the details btw, but a few weeks ago the police found a pretty big bomb planted by dissident republicans along some road. Was this on the national news? No, but it had half a page on the BBC news website. Compared to the many articles on Sarah Palin’s shopping habits, I think it’s quite disgraceful.
I'd have to agree. I apologize on the part of the McCain campaign and my nation for putting that bizarre creature from the frozen north in front of a camera.

I'd have to agree. I apologize on the part of the McCain campaign and my nation for putting that bizarre creature from the frozen north in front of a camera. We have our own bizarre creature from the frozen north, our glorious leader, Mr Happy

the reason is because they were all watching the US elections thus no one noticed. :D
Actually, there was protesting. People were out on the streets, half supporting and half contesting the marching. They just chose to not beat each other to a pulp.

(Curiously enough, a sizeable proportion of Northern Ireland would have been pro-McCain. The subdued "well done" of Peter Robinson of the DUP to Barack Obama was about as subtle as the Kool Aid jug. But that's an aside)

Actually, there was protesting. People were out on the streets, half supporting and half contesting the marching. They just chose to not beat each other to a pulp. Well said, although there was protesting and the odd rock thrown there was, like I say, no gun shots or explosions. Now that must be step in the right direction

Well done!

No violence? No bombs?

Really, how long can you talk about something that DIDN'T happen?:p

"In a related story, Eric Jacobs drove home without incident today. In weather news, the midwest was not ravaged by tornados today, nor was the gulf coast hit by a hurricane."

Booooring.

congratz from America!

I'm tired of hearing about our election too.

When Obama wrecks NAFTA, raises taxes and/or makes the deficit worse, and by extention makes the global economy worse as well, then we can talk about him and how much it is going to suck for african americans to have thier first president be this guy. (Plenty of black people deserved the job, just not Obama!)

congratz from America!

I'm tired of hearing about our election too.

When Obama wrecks NAFTA, raises taxes and/or makes the deficit worse, and by extention makes the global economy worse as well, then we can talk about him and how much it is going to suck for african americans to have thier first president be this guy. (Plenty of black people deserved the job, just not Obama!)
He's going to give the US a tabula rasa on the international stage. I don't really know why, but he is.

Why are we Brits talking about the breakthrough of black president in America when a much more important sectarian breakthrough happened within our own boarders? Just the other day the Royal Irish marched through Belfast and not one shot was fired, not one bomb went off, not one riot rocked the city. This is something that would’ve been imposable 30,20 or even 10 years ago and this is something we Brits should be proud of and what we should be talking about in NSG this week.
*pats on head* Oh that's good dearie. We're really glad to hear that.

But...Yay for the Irish in avoiding violence.
There's a first time for everything, I guess.

(Curiously enough, a sizeable proportion of Northern Ireland would have been pro-McCain. The subdued "well done" of Peter Robinson of the DUP to Barack Obama was about as subtle as the Kool Aid jug. But that's an aside)

Peter and co don't care much for 'coloureds', as they call them.

Really, how long can you talk about something that DIDN'T happen?:p
Weren't you married once? One might think you'd already know the answer to that. :p

Yeah, I was back home for the weekend but hadn't realised that there was a prade on. I thought I was going to be screwed trying to get to Belfast International in time to catch my flight. I was amazed that it all went off so quietly.

Well done the Irish!
By th eway, I was thinking about the film "Michael Collins" where Collins (portrayed by the great Liam Neeson) negotiated the Anglo-Irish peace settlement. He was sent there by Eamonn de Valera, came back with what he thought was the best he could do - all of Ireland except the six counties where the Protestants had the majority but de Valera repudiated the treaty thereby plunging Ireland into a terrible civil war.
I wonder if Collins could have negotiate one small amendment to the agreement - that every three years each province of Ulster could vote on whether to unite with Ireland (but that only people born in the six counties could vote) whether the divisive issue of a united Ireland could have been settled peacefully. The British government might have agreed to that because that agreement would have provided protection to the Protestants who had and have a two thirds majority in Ulster while holding out some hope to the Catholic population for the eventual unification of Ireland.)
Well it didn't happen did it? So Ireland sufferd a great deal in the 20th century.
Let's hope that the 21st century is kinder to Ireland. Ireland - land of Ire?

Well done the Irish!
By th eway, I was thinking about the film "Michael Collins" where Collins (portrayed by the great Liam Neeson) negotiated the Anglo-Irish peace settlement. He was sent there by Eamonn de Valera, came back with what he thought was the best he could do - all of Ireland except the six counties where the Protestants had the majority but de Valera repudiated the treaty thereby plunging Ireland into a terrible civil war.
I wonder if Collins could have negotiate one small amendment to the agreement - that every three years each province of Ulster could vote on whether to unite with Ireland (but that only people born in the six counties could vote) whether the divisive issue of a united Ireland could have been settled peacefully. The British government might have agreed to that because that agreement would have provided protection to the Protestants who had and have a two thirds majority in Ulster while holding out some hope to the Catholic population for the eventual unification of Ireland.)
Well it didn't happen did it? So Ireland sufferd a great deal in the 20th century.
Let's hope that the 21st century is kinder to Ireland. Ireland - land of Ire?

*sigh*

I'm speechless.

Well done the Irish!
By th eway, I was thinking about the film (.........)Ireland. Ireland - land of Ire?

Its hard to know where to start....That offer wouldn't have been possible on behalf of the brits. There was a border review commission to adjust boundaries, but such was the fear of trying to make any further changes (due to the violence caused by the initial partition) that its report was never acted on.

It should be pointed out that sentiment aside, one of the great pushes towards a desire for a united Ireland on behalf of northern catholics was the openly sectarian and actively hostile nature of the Northern Ireland statelet, which brought intermittent mob violence, political disenfranchisement and institutional discrimination.

Well done the Irish!
By th eway, I was thinking about the film "Michael Collins" where Collins (portrayed by the great Liam Neeson) negotiated the Anglo-Irish peace settlement. He was sent there by Eamonn de Valera, came back with what he thought was the best he could do - all of Ireland except the six counties where the Protestants had the majority but de Valera repudiated the treaty thereby plunging Ireland into a terrible civil war.
I wonder if Collins could have negotiate one small amendment to the agreement - that every three years each province of Ulster could vote on whether to unite with Ireland (but that only people born in the six counties could vote) whether the divisive issue of a united Ireland could have been settled peacefully. The British government might have agreed to that because that agreement would have provided protection to the Protestants who had and have a two thirds majority in Ulster while holding out some hope to the Catholic population for the eventual unification of Ireland.)
Well it didn't happen did it? So Ireland sufferd a great deal in the 20th century.
Let's hope that the 21st century is kinder to Ireland. Ireland - land of Ire? Or certain members of the Republic of Ireland could have realised that the 6 counties wanted to remain part of Britain and leave it at that.

But the IRA wouldn't leave it at that. They had to kill each other for several bloody years - yet another revolution to drown in bloodshed.

He's going to give the US a tabula rasa on the international stage. I don't really know why, but he is.

There's no such thing. Deal with it.

There's no such thing. Deal with it.

I think you hit the wrong posting ferrous

So stuff your fucking crown we Irish won't lie down
and give away our guns to foreign lands
No semtex not our guns will you ever get from us
You can stick your decommissioning up your arse

All together now!

awesome =)

But the IRA wouldn't leave it at that. They had to kill each other for several bloody years - yet another revolution to drown in bloodshed.

Please stop posting on this topic - I beg of you.

So stuff your fucking crown we Irish won't lie down
and give away our guns to foreign lands
No semtex not our guns will you ever get from us
You can stick your decommissioning up your arse

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nvLYRECd8vU&feature=related

Very catchy tune, despite the subject

*pats on head* Oh that's good dearie. We're really glad to hear that.

What a stupid and insensitive comment to make. Do you understand how monumental this is? Thousands of people were killed in the troubles and even now parades get attacked. This is a huge event, and you've just made it seem like nothing.

But the IRA wouldn't leave it at that. They had to kill each other for several bloody years - yet another revolution to drown in bloodshed.

You haven't been reading up in the meantime, have you.....

Why are we Brits talking about the breakthrough of black president in America when a much more important sectarian breakthrough happened within our own boarders? Just the other day the Royal Irish marched through Belfast and not one shot was fired, not one bomb went off, not one riot rocked the city. This is something that would’ve been imposable 30,20 or even 10 years ago and this is something we Brits should be proud of and what we should be talking about in NSG this week.

Well maybe the people were in pubs celebrating Obama's election.

You haven't been reading up in the meantime, have you.....

Okay Nod, I'm game to nibble your enigmatic bait - reading up about what? The peace process? I was trying to make a point about blind sectarian Nationalism which annoys me. I realise that it is a phase that all governments and nationalist groups must go through, but why must it be so painful an dwhy must people continue to be so stupid around the world.:mad:

Okay Nod, I'm game to nibble your enigmatic bait - reading up about what? The peace process? I was trying to make a point about blind sectarian Nationalism which annoys me. I realise that it is a phase that all governments and nationalist groups must go through, but why must it be so painful an dwhy must people continue to be so stupid around the world.

Ok. You deserve this - and I hope Nod does the same.


Well done the Irish!
Correction: Northern Irish.

By th eway, I was thinking about the film "Michael Collins"
You're going to base your post regarding a nasty, bitter and still contentious civil war, on a Hollywood film?

where Collins (portrayed by the great Liam Neeson) negotiated the Anglo-Irish peace settlement.
Amongst others as part of the negotiating team, yes.

He was sent there by Eamonn de Valera,
As President of the Republic yes.

came back with what he thought was the best he could do
We suppose so. The point wasn't whether he did the best he could do in London - the point was supposed to negotiate independence for the whole island. So coming back with half the island isn't going to endear him to a lot of people.

- all of Ireland except the six counties where the Protestants had the majority but de Valera repudiated the treaty thereby plunging Ireland into a terrible civil war.
De Valera rejected the partition because it wasn't enough. Freedom was supposed to be for the island. Note: the Dail only agreed to the Treay by 64 to 57 - a lot of people rejected it - not just Dev. And stop splitting it down to "Catholics" on one side and "Protestants" on the other. It makes you look like you don't know anything beyond the surface.

I wonder if Collins could have negotiate one small amendment to the agreement - that every three years each province of Ulster could vote on whether to unite with Ireland
Which the Northern Unionists would have said no to point blank and therefore the British government would have said no to as well. The Unionists were not going to vote away their country until there was nothing left or at least leaving such a small amount of land it becomes untenable to govern. No more concessions or negotiations could have been done in London.

whether the divisive issue of a united Ireland could have been settled peacefully.
See: Irish Home Rule and how "successful" dealing peacefully with London got them. And after a bloody uprising in 1916, a threatened counter uprising by Northern Unionists at the same time had London even considered granting Home Rule, and then a bloody war of independence - kinda hard to go back to "sooooo, let's go back a few steps and slow things down."

The British government might have agreed to that because that agreement would have provided protection to the Protestants who had and have a two thirds majority in Ulster while holding out some hope to the Catholic population for the eventual unification of Ireland.)
It doesn't matter if the British government agreed to it (which they wouldn't have anyway - losing the Empire so close to home to a bunch of rag-tag rebels?), since the Northern Unionists said 'no', Britain willfully obliged.

Well it didn't happen did it?
Thank you Capt. Obvious.

So Ireland sufferd a great deal in the 20th century.
Ireland did fine after 1922. Northern Ireland (part of it) got fucked for a few more decades.

Let's hope that the 21st century is kinder to Ireland.
Ireland is one of the wealthiest countries in Europe and in the world per capita. By all means, let the 21st century be kinder - but it's not as if it's been sitting in the doldrums for the past 25 years.

Ireland - land of Ire?
....right.

My what sharp teeth and claws the psychotic mongoose has! Now I'm going to test you on Australian history ansd we'll see how hoity toity you can remain.......

I don't think that I mentioned anything about Irish wealth (in fact in other threads I pointed to Ireland and the UK's joining the EU as one of the reasons why a peace settlement could be forged - a bigger picture. Joining the EU was also good for Ireland's economy.

Oh! And I was engaging in that little game of historical hindsight - "What if?" I liked some of your responses but you really needn't go the attack Psychotic!

Talk of "Ire" -what an irate little mongoose you are.

Now I'm going to test you on Australian history ansd we'll see how hoity toity you can remain.......
If I went into a thread on sensitive Australian history with a weak knowledge of said subject, then I would expect to be called up on it. I don't think you should feel put out if same happens to you.

I don't think that I mentioned anything about Irish wealth (in fact in other threads I pointed to Ireland and the UK's joining the EU as one of the reasons why a peace settlement could be forged - a bigger picture. Joining the EU was also good for Ireland's economy. You said "Lets' hope the 21st century is kinder to Ireland" - I merely pointed out that for the most part, the 20th century was indeed kind (or at worst - neutral) to Ireland by highlighting wealth and progression. Secondly, I was correcting your slip of the tongue by separating "Ireland" from "Northern Ireland" to dispel any further confusion.

Oh! And I was engaging in that little game of historical hindsight - "What if?"
What if scenarios work better if you know the subject matter.

I liked some of your responses but you really needn't go the attack Psychotic!
Correcting doesn't necessarily equate to an attack, but that's your call.

Do you understand how monumental this is?
It'd be genuinely monumental if all those marching realised they were being unnecessarily cuntish, and stopped their pointless march.

*sigh*

I've got to deal with these eejits marching aboot in Glasgow soon...

Fuck 'em all.

Yeh Fuck em all Chumb
That was the original WWI song you know (they changed it to "Bless 'em all" for home consumption)
Bless 'em all,
Bless 'em all
Bless all the Red Hands from up Belfast Way,
Bless all the Provos and the true IRA
Bless em all
Bless em all
Bless all the Rangers
And Celtic fans too
And bless all the fans of
The red white and blue
Bless em all
Bless em all
Sectarians having a ball
They love all their flags and their symbols of hate
Let's just ignore em and leave em to fate
So we're saying goodbye to them all
As in history's dustbin they fall
You'll get no satisfaction from nationalist action
So cheer up my lads
Bless em all.

Hey Psychotic! Last September I swam in the Firth of Forth! Not bad for an Aussie huh!

It'd be genuinely monumental if all those marching realised they were being unnecessarily cuntish, and stopped their pointless march.

*sigh*

I've got to deal with these eejits marching aboot in Glasgow soon...

Fuck 'em all. It is you who is the **** my man.

See: Irish Home Rule and how "successful" dealing peacefully with London got them. And after a bloody uprising in 1916, a threatened counter uprising by Northern Unionists at the same time had London even considered granting Home Rule, and then a bloody war of independence - kinda hard to go back to "sooooo, let's go back a few steps and slow things down."

The Third Home Rule Bill passed through Parliament and was given the Royal Assent in 1914, but it's coming into operation was delayed by WW1.

It is, therefore, entirely incorrect to say that London never considered granting Home Rule until after 1916; it had already been accepted by London that it was the best thing to do, and Parliament had passed the necessary legislation for Home Rule to be implemented once the war was over.

One further point to make in relation to previous comments is that Northern Ireland was technically part of the Free State for a few hours; the Northern Irish Parliament then opted out of the Free State and came back into the UK.

The Third Home Rule Bill passed through Parliament and was given the Royal Assent in 1914, but it's coming into operation was delayed by WW1.
And the events of WW1 (in Ireland as well) led to the impossibility of it happening. Redmond was hung out to dry - his party became utterly pointless and leaving a vacuum politically. Couple that with possibility of conscription and the events of the Easter Rising, there's no way Home Rule would have sufficed.

It is, therefore, entirely incorrect to say that London never considered granting Home Rule until after 1916; it had already been accepted by London that it was the best thing to do, and Parliament had passed the necessary legislation for Home Rule to be implemented once the war was over.

Taking into account Carson and the Ulster Covenant, and events like the Curragh Mutiny (an indication of the weakness of support behind the Act even within the British establishment), it was highly improbable any from of Home Rule would have worked with powers beyond a county council for the entire island... even then it probably would have only kicked in for what became the Free State, as a sop to Carson Ulster would have remained outside it, thereby really making Redmond and his party even more redundant - and Home Rule unworkable.

Okay Nod, I'm game to nibble your enigmatic bait - reading up about what? The peace process? I was trying to make a point about blind sectarian Nationalism which annoys me.

....thus entirely ignoring the contents of message 22.

Sorry Nodinia, I did miss it.