NationStates Jolt Archive


The Supremes

Free Soviets
05-11-2008, 23:22
something TCT said in another thread got me thinking:

Unfortunately, without changes in the make-up of SCOTUS, we are unlikely to get a decision protecting same-sex marriage -- even though that is the logical extension of existing caselaw.

alright, it's sort of a given that the 4 wingnut members of the court are also the least likely to retire anytime in the foreseeable future. so while obama gets to put good people on when a few people leave, it won't be enough to fundamentally alter the dynamics - we'll still be stuck with the whims of kennedy determining the outcomes on issues that make the wingnuts freak out. this is especially important in the light of the 2000 election - ancient history, i know, but now that we finally have some semi-reasonable people in charge of making decisions, we can start fixing all the shit that has accumulated. to quote brad delong (http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/11/the-supreme-cou.html):

Seven Republicans, only three of them attached to reality, and two Democrats.

This degree of Republican partisan entrenchment in the court is--in a word--bizarre. It is not a good thing.

Moreover, this Supreme Court forfeited any claim to be due deference from the other branches of the government when it prostituted its office to install George W. Bush as president eight years ago. It then established a new constitutional principle: that if an election is close and if one party has appointed an overwhelming majority of justices of the Supreme Court, that majority gets to decide the election.

Republican hack Alex Castellanos said last night, on CNN: "There is no way for us Republicans to win this election unless we had a 9-0 majority on the Supreme Court." That was a joke. But it really wasn't a joke at all, was it?

Think about that.

Is this a constitutional principle that we want established? No. But it will be established unless we declare that this is not, in fact, a constitutional moment we want to embrace.

How can we push back? How can we keep this from becoming an established constitutional principle? All five of the Bush v. Gore justices should have been impeached, but the Republicans--for partisan political reasons--would not step up to the plate. However, now that George W. Bush is on the way out perhaps Republican senators can be persuaded that they do not want "he who appointed the judges wins" to be part of our constitution.

so what, if anything, should be done? is the court fine as is? should the justices who whored themselves out as part of the majority in bush v. gore be impeached or otherwise forced from power? should obama and his nearly unstoppable mandate boost the number of justices, either temporarily or permanently?
Psychotic Mongooses
05-11-2008, 23:26
Dammit!

Thought this was about Motown.....
Soheran
05-11-2008, 23:31
Messing with the Court is a politically dangerous game. If Roosevelt couldn't do it, Obama can't do it either. It looks really bad (power-hungry, violating the rule of law, etc.), and his mandate doesn't stem from a general social liberalism on the part of the population--you just need to look at the ballot measures that passed in Obama states to see that.

Not many options here, except to replace the liberal justices with people who are much younger... and hope he wins re-election.
Free Soviets
05-11-2008, 23:45
Messing with the Court is a politically dangerous game. If Roosevelt couldn't do it, Obama can't do it either. It looks really bad (power-hungry, violating the rule of law, etc.), and his mandate doesn't stem from a general social liberalism on the part of the population--you just need to look at the ballot measures that passed in Obama states to see that.

Not many options here, except to replace the liberal justices with people who are much younger... and hope he wins re-election.

i don't know - i think people may actually be up for punishing the guys that made bush president. effectively, if they remind the public that certain justices themselves violated the rule of law in a blatant power grab, there might be a bit more wiggle room available.
Frisbeeteria
05-11-2008, 23:58
One thing I think you can count on is that Obama's SCOTUS appointments will be thoughtful and unhurried. This NPR article (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96337196) shows how his background in Constitutional Law has groomed him to be better prepared to make appointments to the Courts than almost any other 2008 candidate.

Let's not forget the large number of openings on the Appellate and District courts. The Federal Judiciary website shows 40 current (http://www.uscourts.gov/cfapps/webnovada/CF_FB_301/index.cfm?fuseaction=Reports.ViewVacancies) and 20 near future openings (http://www.uscourts.gov/cfapps/webnovada/CF_FB_301/index.cfm?fuseaction=Reports.ViewFuture) that could be easy confirmations for a 57 Democrat Senate. Populating the pool of potential SCOTUS members with idealogically-bound junior jurists could have a greater impact than the 1-3 possible SCOTUS openings.

It's gonna be interesting, that's for sure.
Lackadaisical2
06-11-2008, 00:10
so what, if anything, should be done? is the court fine as is? should the justices who whored themselves out as part of the majority in bush v. gore be impeached or otherwise forced from power? should obama and his nearly unstoppable mandate boost the number of justices, either temporarily or permanently?

Nothing ought to be done, Justices can't be impeached or forced out of power, legally, to my understanding. I wouldn't say that Obama has a mandate at all, let alone a nearly unstoppable one.
CthulhuFhtagn
06-11-2008, 00:14
Nothing ought to be done, Justices can't be impeached or forced out of power, legally, to my understanding. I wouldn't say that Obama has a mandate at all, let alone a nearly unstoppable one.

Justices can and have been impeached.
Free Soviets
06-11-2008, 00:15
Justices can't be impeached or forced out of power, legally, to my understanding.

um, samuel chase?

I wouldn't say that Obama has a mandate at all, let alone a nearly unstoppable one.

how quickly we forget 2004
Lackadaisical2
06-11-2008, 01:26
um, samuel chase?

interesting to note that he wasn't convicted, I don't think that they will go after Justices with a political grudge.

how quickly we forget 2004

Well, if you really think bush had a mandate, I can see how you'd think Obama has one now.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
06-11-2008, 03:46
um, samuel chase?
1. That was about two centuries ago
2. He was restored to office
3. He was, officially, impeached for things he did before getting into the Supreme Court
Holy Paradise
06-11-2008, 05:14
Dammit!

Thought this was about Motown.....

Likewise.
Free Soviets
06-11-2008, 05:17
Dammit!

Thought this was about Motown.....
Likewise.

stop for the music, stay for the political plotting
Holy Paradise
06-11-2008, 05:20
It's all good!
Yootopia
06-11-2008, 05:21
stop for the music, stay for the political plotting
Fuck that, your topic is dull and The Supremes are ace.
greed and death
06-11-2008, 05:25
Go ahead and try it. If you do I guarantee the democrats lose the house and the senate in 2010. Don't get a god damn thing done that needs to be fixed in the country. And will be unable to convict a single judge as they need a 2/3's majority in the senate.(67 votes)\

also the one attempt to convict a justice has been considered the basis for you cant convict a justice for what they do on the bench.
Free Soviets
06-11-2008, 05:26
interesting to note that he wasn't convicted

though not so interesting in relation to the claim that the impeachment itself was impossible

I don't think that they will go after Justices with a political grudge.

it isn't about a political grudge, per se. more about rectifying a blatant and obvious subversion of justice for political gain that has gone unpunished.

Well, if you really think bush had a mandate, I can see how you'd think Obama has one now.

obama has about 5x the margin bush had, and bush governed like he had a huge mandate. so something on the order of 5x more mandatiness seems fair.