NationStates Jolt Archive

Who else is watching it?


Im impressed. McCain showed honor, integrity, and humility. He even tried to shut up his idiotic supporters (who are frankly just be embarassing).

He took responsibility for himself and went out on a positive note.

If this McCain had run, I would have not been terrified of his electon.


Whats everyone else think?

I was a McCain supporter, regardless I am happy to see Obama elected. (No 2000 repeat) McCain's speech was honorable indeed.

To repeat a previous post:

The supporters were acting pretty rednecked at times, booing when Obama was mentioned.

On the other hand, McCain sounded like the dying monster at the end of a horror film. A little more dignified, a little more human.

He isn't even finished yet


but yeah it is one of the best Concession speeches I have heard.
But this is nothing new for American politics. We don't really have the losers calling for riots and civil war.

He isn't even finished yet

I know, Im talking about it as I watch it.

Good speech.

I know, Im talking about it as I watch it.

I think the republicans tend to run old people who are good losers when they know they cant win.

I'm looking forward to Obama's speech soon.

Well its over.


You know what the worst part is?

I could have considered voting for that man who was at the podium tonight.

It should be good. He's been working on it since March.

McCain's speech was glorious. The John McCain of the campaign was replaced by the John McCain of the olden days.

Well its over.


You know what the worst part is?

I could have considered voting for that man who was at the podium tonight.

And even then it looked like he realized the horror of the base he drew upon support. A bunch of anti-intellectual sore losers who booed every time "Obama" or "Biden" were mentioned.

McCain's speech was glorious. The John McCain of the campaign was replaced by the John McCain of the olden days.

The Dying Monster.

McCain's speech was glorious. The John McCain of the campaign was replaced by the John McCain of the olden days.

This.


My heart goes out to him. Im not disappointed he lost, I just wish he could have run, and won, as the real John McCain at another time.

He wont get a chance to run again at his age.

And even then it looked like he realized the horror of the base he drew upon support. A bunch of anti-intellectual sore losers who booed every time "Obama" or "Biden" were mentioned.

Exatly. You saw flashes of horror in his eyes.

Its like he was seeing what hed become for the first time.

This.


My heart goes out to him. Im not disappointed he lost, I just wish he could have run, and won, as the real John McCain at another time.

He wont get a chance to run again at his age.

That's why Obama should step aside and let old McCain be pres. *nod*

*sigh* How did that guy lost to Bush?

That was a damn good speech. I'm looking forward to seeing Obama's

Best concession speech I've ever heard.

The crowd really sucked, though.

Who else is watching it?


Im impressed. McCain showed honor, integrity, and humility. He even tried to shut up his idiotic supporters (who are frankly just be embarassing).

He took responsibility for himself and went out on a positive note.

If this McCain had run, I would have not been terrified of his electon.


Whats everyone else think?

I agree. He wasn't stiff and clenched and creepy, either.

*sigh* How did that guy lost to Bush?

because American votes for the guy who says lost to rather then lose to.

Best concession speech I've ever heard.

The crowd really sucked, though.

He made a faustian bargin, and it bit him in the ass.

*sigh* How did that guy lost to Bush?

It was the rise of Turd Blossom Rove, plus half the country had yet to experience the Bitch Slap Incompetence of George W. "I Ran Three of Daddy's Companies Into The Ground" Bush hit their wallets or their families hard. People bought into the negative campaigns.

He made a faustian bargin, and it bit him in the ass.Doesn't matter anymore.

That was a beautiful speech, McCain went out with honor.

I wish I could say the same for his supporters....

yeah, what everyone else said.

I agree with the consensus here. That was the McCain that I supported during the primaries. That is the McCain that I would have voted for in 2000. An excellent, and needed, speech.

That speech made me remember why I voted for this guy. See, I figured that the attack ads and everything was just him trying to get elected, and once he was in office, the real McCain would re-emerge. And he did emerge - in his concession speech.

The crowd were assholes, though. Props to McCain for trying to quiet them.

His speech was gracious, and I have a great deal of respect for the man. If only his handlers had not convinced him that the hardass image would fly.

This is the tone this campaign should have carried. Senator, thank you for this speech.

Now, we haven't seen Obama's speech yet, but, this is the best speech I've seen in American politics since Gore's concession speech. But, isn't it strange that lately the best speeches have been concession speeches?

What makes me so very sad, though, is the fact that this is probably a better reflection of the "real" McCain than the campaign McCain.

That speech made me remember why I voted for this guy. See, I figured that the attack ads and everything was just him trying to get elected, and once he was in office, the real McCain would re-emerge. And he did emerge - in his concession speech.

Even if this was the case and he won, the world would have been pretty fucking uncomfortable knowing that a clueless, petty and uberfundie Caribou Barbie was just one fatality away from taking the Oval Office.

The crowd were assholes, though. Props to McCain for trying to quiet them.

And they wonder why Red States got the Jesusland label...

McCain could have caused a civil war with this speech

McCain could have caused a civil war with this speech

Don't worry, I'm sure Caribou Barbie will try to do her part with that.

Don't worry, I'm sure Caribou Barbie will try to do her part with that.

well Alaska could do well if it succeeded and lived off its oil.

McCain could have caused a civil war with this speech

I think he realized exactly that.

I think he realized exactly that.

McCain luckily loves America and the system too much for that.

Who else is watching it?


Im impressed. McCain showed honor, integrity, and humility. He even tried to shut up his idiotic supporters (who are frankly just be embarassing).

He took responsibility for himself and went out on a positive note.

If this McCain had run, I would have not been terrified of his electon.


Whats everyone else think?

His speech regained much of the respect I'd lost for the man. I'll never agree with him, but I do respect him. I think his campaign really left his control in some ways and he caved to the party. Only to realize too late that doing so negated what people liked about him.

Silencing the booing was very classy.

His speech regained much of the respect I'd lost for the man. I'll never agree with him, but I do respect him. I think his campaign really left his control in some ways and he caved to the party. Only to realize too late that doing so negated what people liked about him.

Silencing the booing was very classy.

His whole speech was classy. He showed the honor that was lacking during the campaign.

Don't care... I didn't vote and I didn't watch it. I'm skipping town (and by town, I mean this country) as soon as I get my Ph.D anyway... The only reason why I found out is I got a call from a friend of mine telling me.

Don't care... I didn't vote and I didn't watch it. I'm skipping town (and by town, I mean this country) as soon as I get my Ph.D anyway... The only reason why I found out is I got a call from a friend of mine telling me.

Good riddence.

Don't care... I didn't vote and I didn't watch it. I'm skipping town (and by town, I mean this country) as soon as I get my Ph.D anyway... The only reason why I found out is I got a call from a friend of mine telling me.

GTFO you POS

GTFO you POS

Meh, no need to get angry at him. He's only telling us so he can get attention. Otherwise he wouldnt have said anything.

Don't care... I didn't vote and I didn't watch it. I'm skipping town (and by town, I mean this country) as soon as I get my Ph.D anyway... The only reason why I found out is I got a call from a friend of mine telling me.

Yet, you care enough to post here telling us just exactly how much you don't care.

Good riddence.

If America wants to flush itself down the toilet, it can do so without me.

GTFO you POS

Grrr, so angry! Didn't you learn anything from Yoda? Anger is the path to the dark side.

If America wants to flush itself down the toilet, it can do so without me.

Wow...talk about sour grapes. I'm not an Obama supporter either, but at least I realize that he won fair and square, and hope for next time.

If America wants to flush itself down the toilet, it can do so without me.

Says the man going to Israel.

Seriously, quit with the " 'merika doesnt agree with, so Im takin mah ball n goin home!!!"


People, stop responding to him, hes threadjacking.

Says the man going to Israel.

Seriously, quit with the " 'merika doesnt agree with, so Im takin mah ball n goin home!!!"


People, stop responding to him, hes threadjacking.

Hey, at least one Bushevik is gracious enough to let everyone know he's cutting and running.

:D

Meh, no need to get angry at him. He's only telling us so he can get attention. Otherwise he wouldnt have said anything.

But im drunk celebrating and i feel like fighting.

Don't care... I didn't vote and I didn't watch it. I'm skipping town (and by town, I mean this country) as soon as I get my Ph.D anyway... The only reason why I found out is I got a call from a friend of mine telling me.You know, I wonder at people like you. Why even say you're going to leave? Why not just do it now? "First I want to get something." Is usually the response. Gee, I wonder why you would want to stay here just to get something, when you can obviously go someplace else and get that something.
Maybe because we're better?
Or maybe because you (Collective you) don't have the guts to back up your promise to get out of my country? :)

Says the man going to Israel.

Seriously, quit with the " 'merika doesnt agree with, so Im takin mah ball n goin home!!!"


People, stop responding to him, hes threadjacking.Oh, sorry. Gotcha.

Are there any videos of his speech on the net?

I agree mostly with what everyone has said. If the McCain that I had seen 8 years ago and from tonight had run. I would admired him, and possibly would have voted him.

If anyone wants to blame his defeat, blame Bush. Blame the fundies for manipulateing him and making him sell his soul.

Shame on McCain's followers for not following their canidates nobility in defeat.

I didn't see McCain's speech, but before you all praise him, ask yourselves, is it so impressive to act like a decent man when you have little to lose by doing so? I'm glad he tried to leave the race with dignity in the end, but it would have meant more for him to silence those boos a month ago. The hatred he's stirred up has had time to grow and fester, and we may suffer greatly from it yet.

manipulating him and making him sell his soul.

No one made him abandon his supposed principles. Whatever he has done and will do to redeem himself, the burden of responsibility rests on his shoulders.

Im impressed. McCain showed honor, integrity, and humility. He even tried to shut up his idiotic supporters (who are frankly just be embarassing).

He took responsibility for himself and went out on a positive note.

Has hell frozen over?

I can't imagine you ever saying these sort of things about a Republican KoL :p

Who are you and what have you done with the real KoL.

Yeah, this is the real McCain. Too bad the party elite didn't allow it to show.

Yeah, this is the real McCain. Too bad the party elite didn't allow it to show.

Again, McCain may have had to do what he did to campaign, I don't know. But he still made that choice, and he bears personal responsibility for that.

McCain's speech was glorious. The John McCain of the campaign was replaced by the John McCain of the olden days.

The RNC, from what I can see, forced Palin on him, and that was the end of that. The short-term gain she brought him came crashing down in a wave of both her naivete and the RNC negative strategy. McCain perhaps could have insisted on a different VP choice or a different tack for his campaign, but we'll never know what arrangements were made for such a gallant man to sell out his principles so nobly espoused in 2000 and in this concession speech.

If America wants to flush itself down the toilet, it can do so without me.

You're welcome for the Ph.D -- don't let the border hit you on your educated ass on the way out of the country YOU CHOSE to get it from. :rolleyes:

I didn't see McCain's speech, but before you all praise him, ask yourselves, is it so impressive to act like a decent man when you have little to lose by doing so? I'm glad he tried to leave the race with dignity in the end, but it would have meant more for him to silence those boos a month ago. The hatred he's stirred up has had time to grow and fester, and we may suffer greatly from it yet.

He did silence as much as he could a month ago, as a supporter called Obama an "Arab" and he vehemently straightened her out on the matter. Flashes of his former class, but sadly, not enough. Yes, he made his choice, but it's likely he was given very few options. Had he selected someone that didn't pander to the further-right-than-him base, he'd have not received the funding he did. Which, as we've seen, turned out to be not enough anyway. And that gives me pause for thought. How is it the traditionally moneyed party was outspent? I know McCain opted for public funds, and so had limitations, but come on, these are savvy businessmen at the top of the GOP, or so we've been led to believe. Something tells me the big-money Rs are saving their $ for 2012.

I didn't see McCain's speech, but before you all praise him, ask yourselves, is it so impressive to act like a decent man when you have little to lose by doing so? I'm glad he tried to leave the race with dignity in the end, but it would have meant more for him to silence those boos a month ago. The hatred he's stirred up has had time to grow and fester, and we may suffer greatly from it yet.

He did though http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MRq6Y4NmB6U

As I've said since his nomination acceptance speech, the real McCain is a reasonable guy when freed from the demands of representing an unreasonable people, and I think this speech represented that. Respect is due, and I hope Obama is willing to work with him during the next few years in spite of the bitter campaign that has taken place.

That said, I think McCain tried to represent a side of America that should not be given a voice - an infantile, self-enclosed and blind view of the world where anything that is not "one of us" is to be opposed fervently and be subjected to aggressive action. And while I think that he was, in many respects, doing the world a favour by exposing its continued presence, he came very close to endorsing it and increasing it on more than one occasion for the sake of political gain. What I hope that McCain and Obama can do together over the next few years is to eliminate this side of the American society; to make the "alien nation" into something that accepts change and diversity.

Good on you John. Keep it up! The real work starts now!

He did though http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MRq6Y4NmB6U

I guess he tried, but it was a half-hearted effort. He still had Palin out their spewing her venomous Bull shit.

I actually wonder if someone was blackmailing him to take Palin. It was just so stupid.

Yeah, this is the real McCain. Too bad the party elite didn't allow it to show.

It's nice that he's dignified and all, but in any case I didn't want 4 more years of Bush policies.

McCain fought nobly (not like some dirty basrtards in the GOP who spread the lie that Obama was an Islamic terrorist.) They clearly believed in Goebbels' dictum that if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it.

Here's a letter that I wrote to the newspaper 12 hours ago before the votes were counted:

After the exciting Presidential campaign in "The West Wing", the victorious President-elect Santos chose his defeated Republican rival Vinick to be his Secretary of State because Vinick fought nobly.

Hmmm! I wonder if President-Elect Obama watched that show and is tempted to ask McCain? And I wonder if Colin Powell will become Secretary of Defense?

McCain fought nobly (not like some dirty basrtards in the GOP who spread the lie that Obama was an Islamic terrorist.) They clearly believed in Goebbels' dictum that if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it.

Here's a letter that I wrote to the newspaper 12 hours ago before the votes were counted:

After the exciting Presidential campaign in "The West Wing", the victorious President-elect Santos chose his defeated Republican rival Vinick to be his Secretary of State because Vinick fought nobly.

Hmmm! I wonder if President-Elect Obama watched that show and is tempted to ask McCain? And I wonder if Colin Powell will become Secretary of Defense?

Powell bears the taint of Bush.

Powell bears the taint of Bush.
He's been branded by Bush, but his integrity remains intact. Not everyone involved with the Bush administration was belligerent, and while our human bloodlust might deny them all any future participation in government, we would be wise to acknowledge that some people were there because they really were good people for the job they were there to do.

He's been branded by Bush, but his integrity remains intact. Not everyone involved with the Bush administration was belligerent, and while our human bloodlust might deny them all any future participation in government, we would be wise to acknowledge that some people were there because they really were good people for the job they were there to do.

I'm not saying Powell's all bad. Just that it might not be wise politically to offer him a post.

On the other hand, it would be a way to make good on the promise to reach out to the other side.

I loathe John McCain. His life is a total failure; he fought and suffered for a country that hates him and turned it's back on him. I hope to never become a tool like he is, used and discarded by his own people.

I loathe John McCain. His life is a total failure; he fought and suffered for a country that hates him and turned it's back on him. I hope to never become a tool like he is, used and discarded by his own people.
People don't hate him. The Democrats just think he was made an unfortunate victim of Republican politicking, while the Republicans just think he was out-spent. And who's to say he's been discarded yet? If Obama's serious about a cross-party future, McCain's got potentially quite a bright few years yet to come.

I loathe John McCain. His life is a total failure; he fought and suffered for a country that hates him and turned it's back on him. I hope to never become a tool like he is, used and discarded by his own people.

I think that Obama and McCain have considerable respect for each other. Mc Cain was effectively fighting on two fronts - Bush's shocking track record and Obama's brilliant campaign (beating the front-runner Hillary took some doing too!)
Condidering the obstacles, I think McCain fought well. He left the field in honour - I for one salute him.
Don't be bitter, ferous. Democracy triumphed on November 4.:)

I loathe John McCain. His life is a total failure; he fought and suffered for a country that hates him and turned it's back on him. I hope to never become a tool like he is, used and discarded by his own people.

Is it not possible to like him for who he was, but hate what he has become? Because I think a fair many people on this forum feel this way.

I loathe John McCain. His life is a total failure; he fought and suffered for a country that hates him and turned it's back on him. I hope to never become a tool like he is, used and discarded by his own people.
C'mon now. I'm sure there's some solace in all the lobbyist cabinet ... whoop, friends ... he's got ... and that plethora of cozy houses too.
Seriously though, the guy's done some good for the country. At least he isn't Bush (although that's not saying much)

I think that Obama and McCain have considerable respect for each other. Mc Cain was effectively fighting on two fronts - Bush's shocking track record and Obama's brilliant campaign (better the front-runner Hillary took some doing too!)
Condidering the obstacles, I think McCain fought well. He left the field in honour - I for one salute him.
Don't be bitter, ferous. Democracy triumphed on November 4.:)

Democracy is bunk; you spend your best years being tortured in a Vietnamese prison camp, and this is how your country repays you?

This election has inspired me to never vote again. Donkeys FTW.

Democracy is bunk; you spend your best years being tortured in a Vietnamese prison camp, and this is how your country repays you?

Give me a break. You are the only person in the world who thinks that McCain apparently should have won based purely on the fact that he was tortured, and that McCain hasn't been 'repaid' by his country.

McCain himself hasn't repeated your 'wah, I deserved to be elected, you ingrates!' sentiment and for good reason - it's irrational and silly.

Give me a break. You are the only person in the world who thinks that McCain apparently should have won based purely on the fact that he was tortured, and that McCain hasn't been 'repaid' by his country.

McCain himself hasn't repeated your 'wah, I deserved to be elected, you ingrates!' sentiment and for good reason - it's irrational and silly.

I'm just saying, I've been inspired to not fight for anything; because you'll just end up forgotten and loathed.

If McCain had ran the campaign under the tone of this speech, he might have just pulled an upset. But instead he chose to align himself with the Roveian losers who trashed him years before, so he rightfully lost.

I hope this landslide victory deals a death blow to running campaigns and selecting candidates that cater to the jingoistic fruitcakes of America.

Democracy is bunk; you spend your best years being tortured in a Vietnamese prison camp, and this is how your country repays you?
I don't think "Not making you supreme ruler of the state" can be entirely said to be condemnation of his actions.

I'm just saying, I've been inspired to not fight for anything; because you'll just end up forgotten and loathed.

What have you fought for, poser?

Btw, I won't say this to revive the campaign that's already over, but the fact that McCain was a POW in a hellhole is a horrible ordeal, but he sure as hell was not the only one to do so. In fact, many pilots were never heard from again. And the fact that he was a high profile prisoner (son of the admiral) did not hurt his chances of survival. Unfair to the little "nobodies" who just disappeared in hellholes?

What have you fought for, poser?

Nothing yet, but if I end up in McCain's situation, I'm going to pull a France. Fuck "my people".

Nothing yet, but if I end up in McCain's situation, I'm going to pull a France. Fuck "my people".Had it not been for France, America would be considerably different ... even, nonexistent, perhaps.
Sans a few landmarks as well.

Had it not been for France, America would be considerably different ... even, nonexistent, perhaps.
Sans a few landmarks as well.

I was referring to the surrender thing.

This election has inspired me to never vote again.

Our work here is done.

If McCain had ran the campaign under the tone of this speech, he might have just pulled an upset. But instead he chose to align himself with the Roveian losers who trashed him years before, so he rightfully lost.

I hope this landslide victory deals a death blow to running campaigns and selecting candidates that cater to the jingoistic fruitcakes of America.
Agreed. Again, extending salutations.
I want to see a place in Obama's cabinet for McCain for many reasons ... not the least of which dealing with "death blow" to the republican facade.

Democracy is bunk; you spend your best years being tortured in a Vietnamese prison camp, and this is how your country repays you?

This election has inspired me to never vote again. Donkeys FTW.

McCain was caught up in a really dirty war in Vietnam. The war to stop Communism ended with little to show for itself but dead Vietnamese, dead (and in McCain's case, imprisoned) servicemen and for what a corrupt South Vietnamese regime that noone liked, trusted or would support.
The best thing that the US ever did was to get the hell out.
Unfortunately Bush never learnt the lesson about prolonged land wars in Asia - they are a very, very bad idea. He went into Iraq on a lie, broke all sorts of conventions including the Geneva convention,haebeas corpus etc.
To his credit,McCain opposed the use of toture on detainees. But he should have gone futher and said, "At the earliest opportunity, we are leaving Iraq."
He didn't but he should have, His experiences as a POW were terrible. I respect him as an old soldier who served his country but I didn't respect his decision to stay in Iraq.....sheer effing stupidity. It certainly help to contribute to the Wall St Crisis.

As for democracy being bunk, don't get too caught up in election results. Ask yourself, have I had good times when a government I didn't vote for has been in power? I know I have. And I have had crappy times when a governmnet I voted for has been in power.

Life goes on and it can have surprisingly little bearing on what happens in reality.

I was referring to the surrender thing.
Don't forget the cheese. Sheesh, don't they have a bike race or something over there too? You'd write a terrible tourist brochure. Well, not terrible, but .... wait, have you already?

And in other news, The Artist Formerly Known As The Potato Factory is still a bitter Howardite.

And in other news, The Artist Formerly Known As The Potato Factory is still a bitter Howardite.

We're the one's laughing; Rudd has spent the last year doing nothing. A friend of mine is a dedicated Labor supporter and has admitted that electing Rudd was a mistake.

yes, his concession speach absolutely earned my respect.

if the r.n.c. had let him have lieberman for his running mate, it might well have been the other way around. but no, this moment in history was and is, one for moving on.

i'd have probably still voted for obama, or maybe even cynthia mckenny, but i'm sure a lot of people who switched, a lot of republicans and libertarians, a lot of ron paul supporters and so on, would have stayed with mccain instead, and it would have been a much more closely contested election.

I'm going to echo what other people are (probably) saying, where has that McCain been? Why couldn't that McCain have run? I may not have supported him, but I certainly would have respected him. It was easily the best speech I've seen him give.

I thought McCain was about ready to curbstomp his audience the first time they booed Obama...

Nothing yet, but if I end up in McCain's situation, I'm going to pull a France. Fuck "my people".

Grow up. It's evident that odds are you'd probably do that anyways.

I'm going to echo what other people are (probably) saying, where has that McCain been? Why couldn't that McCain have run? I may not have supported him, but I certainly would have respected him. It was easily the best speech I've seen him give.

Have you seen his supporters? He would have lost worse, because he wouldn't have the Republicans behind him.

Agreed. Again, extending salutations.
I want to see a place in Obama's cabinet for McCain for many reasons ... not the least of which dealing with "death blow" to the republican facade.

Who knows but I doubt McCain would want something like that. He will just continue in the Senate.

Grow up. It's evident that odds are you'd probably do that anyways.

I'm just wondering why anybody would fight for people who aren't even on the same side as them? To put this in context, McCain had more support from the Vietnamese than the Americans. The VIETNA-FUCKING-MESE. The man who personally tortured McCain was pro-McCain.

I'm just wondering why anybody would fight for people who aren't even on the same side as them? To put this in context, McCain had more support from the Vietnamese than the Americans. The VIETNA-FUCKING-MESE. The man who personally tortured McCain was pro-McCain.

Al-Qaeda supported McCain too. You're not even an American citizen so stop whining like you were defrauded.

Deal.

Who knows but I doubt McCain would want something like that. He will just continue in the Senate.Yeah, probably. But it would be SOOOOOOOOOO cool.

Al-Qaeda supported McCain too. You're not even an American citizen so stop whining like you were defrauded.

Deal.

The American election is the world election.

The American election is the world election.

And the world- the part that's in Reality as opposed to the part you're in- rooted for Obama.

Again, Deal.

Have you seen his supporters? He would have lost worse, because he wouldn't have the Republicans behind him.

This is malarkey. In any event I would bet his chances would have been better.

Or to put it another way, a party that needs to espouse simple minded jingoism above the issues deserves to lose. There is absolutely no reason to make a boogeyman of the other guy to present why your policies are better. The two things are exclusive in any logical sense.

If I was McCain, I would have just come out and basically ran on a message basically saying, "yeah, we screwed up royally with Bush, we screwed the pooch and went back for sloppy seconds, but I'm a maverick, I was selected because I'm not a jingoist screwball. As a republican, I will destroy this crap from the inside and retain the good conservative philosophies, which Bush shat on"

With that, maybe he would have won, or it would have been close.

Nope, instead, he aligned himself with Bush's campaign machination 100%.

And the world- the part that's in Reality as opposed to the part you're in- rooted for Obama.

Again, Deal.

I hope the world ends up ruing it.

I'm just wondering why anybody would fight for people who aren't even on the same side as them? To put this in context, McCain had more support from the Vietnamese than the Americans. The VIETNA-FUCKING-MESE. The man who personally tortured McCain was pro-McCain.

It is a complete fallacy to equate voting for president as being on the same side of a POW veteran, or to imply that you can't have one without the other.

No, to be against McCain would be to say "I wish he would have died there", or "hail the vietcong", or "fuck America".

But of course some things never change. Back during Vietnam a lot of people called criticism of making hamburger of American soldiers traitorous.

I hope the world ends up ruing it.

Here's something to help you DEAL:

http://www.medgadget.com/archives/img/pacifier.jpg

"yeah, we screwed up royally with Bush, we screwed the pooch and went back for sloppy seconds
Erm, if i may .... for posterity?

Are there any videos of his speech on the net?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhs5FD-K9ac

There are many on the YewTewb.

Erm, if i may .... for posterity?

fine with me

fine with me
:hail:
A gift basket is in the works, mon capitan.

Democracy is bunk; you spend your best years being tortured in a Vietnamese prison camp, and this is how your country repays you?

This election has inspired me to never vote again. Donkeys FTW.

Don't do a donkey vote, wreck up your vote instead. If you do a donkey vote there might be a chance you could vote for Labor. Now FeO I know you don't want to give a vote to Rudd. Even though your vote wouldn't count either.

You're not even an American citizen so stop whining like you were defrauded.

Now that's not exactly fair, the election of Obama will have effects on many countries which will bring positives and negatives to those countries.

I don't care either way, to be honest. Rudd's going to win again.

Well then don't complain because you threw away your vote.

Now that's not exactly fair, the election of Obama will have effects on many countries which will bring positives and negatives to those countries.

With the exception that Obama has proven himself to be anything but a stubborn, shortsighted cowboy like Dear Leader, so can presume the negatives will usually fall on countries that bring it upon themselves.

Well then don't complain because you threw away your vote.

Is there a point in me voting if Rudd's going to win in a landslide?

Donkeys FTW.Does this show have a director?
I was thinking of something like a Spike Lee Joint edginess, with a little bit of Ansel Adams backdrop, and Marcel Marceau dialogue with Swahili subtitles.

With the exception that Obama has proven himself to be anything but a stubborn, shortsighted cowboy like Dear Leader, so can presume the negatives will usually fall on countries that bring it upon themselves.

Well no not really. The negatives could be anything, if his protectionist policies go through then that will be a negative for both China and Australia. Did they bring it upon themselves?

Is there a point in me voting if Rudd's going to win in a landslide?

It would give you some legitimate backing to gripe, instead of being a Do Nothing Emo Who Needs A Pacifier Badly.

Is there a point in me voting if Rudd's going to win in a landslide?

Yes, because it then gives you the ability to be able to complain and tell people why they were wrong. I know your vote won't matter and my vote won't matter in the next election doesn't mean we shouldn't. As I say FeO don't cast a donkey vote, only half fill your voting card.

It would give you some legitimate backing to gripe, instead of being a Do Nothing Emo Who Needs A Pacifier Badly.

It's a fact that there is no point in voting in the next election. No Australian govt. has served less than two terms.

It's a fact that there is no point in voting in the next election. No Australian govt. has served less than two terms.

Whitlam. You should say that it is a fact that in the past 40 years no Labor government (state or federal) will lose their second electrion after being voted in as the Australian people always give them a second chance and Labor in the past 40 years has lost the election after the one they deserved to lose.

I hope the world ends up ruing it.
It won't. It is always better to be represented than to be repressed.

You seem to think that because Obama won against McCain, your views are not being represented. This is entirely true, but not for the reason you think it is. Your views are not not being represented because the top honcho is not representing them, or because the person you think represents them did not get made the president of the world, but because you are not representing them. You palm off responsibility for the representation of your ideas onto someone else and blame them and everyone else when things don't go the way you want them to, when if you really cared about and were convinced about what you stand for, you'd get out of your computer chair and go out and make it known by working hard and putting what you believe into practice.

You know why Democracy is always incomplete? Because people sit there and let it happen without them. That is their right, and essentially that is what the system is for, but it's not how change happens. That's what Obama's campaign has been about, and hopefully, if there's one thing you'll take away from all of this, it's that if you want to see things done differently, then get up and do something about it. Because, Yes, You Can.

(This public service announcement has been (very) generously sponsored by the GLORIOUS LEADER! ALL HAIL!)

(Lawl)

Whitlam.

Being fired doesn't count. No Australia govt. has been voted out having served only one term.

See the edit FeO

snip

Nah, fuck that shit. I'm not going to vote for a candidate that loses, and I'm definitely not going to vote to help defeat a bad leader.

Personally, if I was one of the GOP heads, I wouldn't even contest the election. if Obama does a good job, you've avoided a loss, and if he does a bad job, you let the US wallow in it's own miserable failure.

Who else is watching it?


Im impressed. McCain showed honor, integrity, and humility. He even tried to shut up his idiotic supporters (who are frankly just be embarassing).

He took responsibility for himself and went out on a positive note.

If this McCain had run, I would have not been terrified of his electon.


Whats everyone else think?
This _was_ the McCain that ran. You couldn't see it for your bias.

I do think it would be awesome for Obama to give McCain a cabinet post. Not Secretary of State (I think he'll find a Democrat for that one), but maybe Secretary of Defense, or even Secretary of Homeland Security.

Actually, I'm going to make a thread about this.

The Dems are now cresting past 10 o'clock towards the top of the wheel.


I'm happy about that for a few reasons:

1) If they can't do what they want now (even without a filibuster-proof Senate), they never will.
2) The GOP can finally retool and get back to basics. The Bush Brand is dead.
3) If the DEMs didn't take this election, every Supreme Court Justice could have been appointed by a Republican. That's too lopsided.
4) If nothing else, US foreign policy gets a reboot of goodwill, even if it's barely going to change for about a year.
5) The whole idea of race relations in the US just massively shifted for the better.

I'm not happy for a few other reasons:

1) I'm going to pay through the nose in taxes.
2) The coming attacks on the Second Amendment.
3) The Democrats have no reason to do much walking across the aisle for bipartisanship. But if they don't, it will just continue this wheel cycle of one party being up when the other is down.
4) Joe Lieberman is going to get burned. Which is a pity, as he is a good man that has as good a Senatorial DEM voting record as McCain has a GOP one.
5) Military spending will go down. Given that most of current American manufacturing relies on military spending, that's bad for the manufacturing sector and horrible for my own state.

As always, the Union will survive. :)

This _was_ the McCain that ran. You couldn't see it for your bias.

His bias that... magically evaporated right when MCain took the stage last night? Just like it did for like all the other people making similar comments?
Yeah, that really makes sense!

You know, for all the people acting as if all is forgiven after his speech last night...

Fuck that.
Yes, it's a start. Had he run his campaign like that the entire time, I could have respected him, even if I disagreed with him.

But you know? He only had to try to calm the crowd because he made them that way. He tried to make this into a hate-based election. To hell with that "Oh, the party made him do it." What would they have done if he didn't listen? Fire him? He was running claiming to be a "Maverick." He should have acted like one if the party was trying to force him into a role.

He could have run an honorable campaign, and it's going to take a lot more than one speech for me to forgive everything.

His bias that... magically evaporated right when MCain took the stage last night? Just like it did for like all the other people making similar comments?
Yeah, that really makes sense!

this

Well, I finally watched the speech. It wasn't bad. Honest and putting the winning opponent in a good light, whilst accepting graciously defeat. Everything a concession speech needs to be really.

I liked the speech. The speech of a brave man.

It is easy to be a saint when you are powerless.

Nothing yet, but if I end up in McCain's situation, I'm going to pull a France. Fuck "my people".

You're going to destroy 0.2% of your body mass, damage 0.4% and lose 4.3% fighting someone else, then half of your brain is going to surrender & collaborate with the enemy, the other half is going to run off into the body of a third entity and the remainder of your body will fight/spy/collaborate on itself, the brain and the enemy?

You're going to destroy 0.2% of your body mass, damage 0.4% and lose 4.3% fighting someone else, then half of your brain is going to surrender & collaborate with the enemy, the other half is going to run off into the body of a third entity and the remainder of your body will fight/spy/collaborate on itself, the brain and the enemy?

... Wha? I was just gonna collaborate.

Most of the French did what most of Germans did (and what you advocate now), which is letting things slide because someone else was doing them.

EDIT: I'm talking about the 'working in the system' style.

This _was_ the McCain that ran. You couldn't see it for your bias.

No, it wasnt. But its well established that youre not posting in reality, so maybe in Myrm land John McCain never became a sleezly little mini-Bush.

Even if this was the case and he won, the world would have been pretty fucking uncomfortable knowing that a clueless, petty and uberfundie Caribou Barbie was just one fatality away from taking the Oval Office.



And they wonder why Red States got the Jesusland label...

Having watched it, I think that it would have been much closer if McCain had campaigned like that. I also think he wouldn't have picked Palin.

All in all, it would have been much more interesting to watch, much less sickening to follow, and much better overall.

Are there any videos of his speech on the net?

The New York Times have a rather nice one --- transcript running along the side and things: http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/conventions/videos/20080904_MCCAIN_SPEECH.html

Having watched it, I think that it would have been much closer if McCain had campaigned like that. I also think he wouldn't have picked Palin.

All in all, it would have been much more interesting to watch, much less sickening to follow, and much better overall.


You mean by Telling the Rednecks to shut up more often?

This _was_ the McCain that ran. You couldn't see it for your bias.Not really. This was the McCain that was the only one to stand up against torture in the Primaries. This was the McCain that was funny at the charity dinner. This was the McCain that said "No Ma'am" to one of his misguided supporters. But it wasn't the McCain from the debates or the McCain that approved these messages.

Democracy is bunk; you spend your best years being tortured in a Vietnamese prison camp, and this is how your country repays you?

This election has inspired me to never vote again. Donkeys FTW.

Never mind the fact that McCAIN HIMSELF said "I owe this country much more than it owes me" and like phrases SEVERAL times. If you can't be bothered to pay attention, your complaints will carry even less weight than they usually do.

This _was_ the McCain that ran. You couldn't see it for your bias.

Right. McCain 2000 was the same McCain we saw in this campaign. No. Nice try, though. I have considered you to be a stalwart, but never so partisan as to completely ignore reality. That's disappointing. You know for a fact that McCain had barely even heard of Palin before she was engineered as the VP candidate. McCain never trashed his opponents in any of his campaigns the way he trashed Obama during this one. I understand that your man didn't win and you're upset about it, and that's fine, but there's no need to be unnecessarily bitter.

Never mind the fact that McCAIN HIMSELF said "I owe this country much more than it owes me" and like phrases SEVERAL times. If you can't be bothered to pay attention, your complaints will carry even less weight than they usually do.

Yeah, well he could hardly say "This sorry ass country owes me big time" could he?

I couldn't agree more. McCain handled his loss in the most respectable way possible. I am especially pleased at how he handled his annoying supporters.

He could have run an honorable campaign, and it's going to take a lot more than one speech for me to forgive everything.
I always say that forgiveness is more for other peoples' benefit than my own. There's no point bearing grudge because, after all, all that'll do is to set us all up on opposite sides and keep the fires of battle going for years to come. I don't forgive because I feel less agitated now than I used to (which is not that true right now of the Republican party anyway); I forgive because I can't afford to let that agitation get in the way of making things better. And that's served me so far, anyway.

I always say that forgiveness is more for other peoples' benefit than my own. There's no point bearing grudge because, after all, all that'll do is to set us all up on opposite sides and keep the fires of battle going for years to come. I don't forgive because I feel less agitated now than I used to (which is not that true right now of the Republican party anyway); I forgive because I can't afford to let that agitation get in the way of making things better. And that's served me so far, anyway.

Well, I'm usually a pretty forgiving person, or I like to think I am. But it's much harder if I don't think that the person feels remorse for what they've done.

I'm not convinced McCain does feel remorse over what he did. And what he did was pretty damn bad.

Either way, I'm just not sure I can forgive him yet. Maybe over time, if he demonstrates a genuine desire to work with the administration and work for the betterment of the country, and genuine desire to heal the wounds he inflicted, to help unite the country he tried so hard to divide.

Let his actions speak, and we'll see if I can forgive.

Well, I'm usually a pretty forgiving person, or I like to think I am. But it's much harder if I don't think that the person feels remorse for what they've done.

I'm not convinced McCain does feel remorse over what he did. And what he did was pretty damn bad.

Either way, I'm just not sure I can forgive him yet. Maybe over time, if he demonstrates a genuine desire to work with the administration and work for the betterment of the country, and genuine desire to heal the wounds he inflicted, to help unite the country he tried so hard to divide.

Let his actions speak, and we'll see if I can forgive.
I think you're giving McCain too much credit for the negative opinion his campaign sparked. You and I could both attest to the fact that if there is one thing he does not do, it is convincing argument. He did not create suspicion and anger at the Obama campaign - if he was attempting to persuade us independents that there was reason to be suspicious, his attempts were feeble and cliched, particularly when he did so through a radical Alaskan Governor undergoing federal investigation - he merely attempted to capitalise on anger and suspicion that was already there.

The wounds that we saw during the Republican campaign have always existed in some deep, unspoken sense in American society. McCain just held them open. It seems, from this perspective, to have been a reckless and dangerous thing to do, but there are many reasons to hold a wound open. In fact, it might turn out to have been a good thing in the long run, if it makes us turn and address that aspect of the USA that leads it to respond to a black "socialist" in that way. It might also have helped to allow those who would otherwise have simply repressed their racism or evangelical republicanism to vent it, rather than bottling up and exploding in some assassination attempt later on.

Either way, I agree that it's reasonable to expect him to respond by contributing to the greater good. Whether or not he's learned his lesson will be expressed in his actions. But I think that a sense of general forgiveness (at least on the part of the people that matter!) would make that more likely.

Pure opinion and speculation, of course. :p

After hearing his concession speech, I said to myself, the true Mac is back. That's the old McCain that I liked. It's sad that he only attracted few bitter folks who wouldn't even accept that Obama had won.

I found the crowd to be quite crude. I understand that there is a sense of disappointment, but to 'boo' like you are at a sporting event is rather disrespectful.

It is easy to be a saint when you are powerless.

Powerless? He won his Senate race and is #24 in Seniority.
One good plague and he's President.

Powerless? He won his Senate race and is #24 in Seniority.
One good plague and he's President.

Don't be giving the far-right ideas :p

I found the crowd to be quite crude. I understand that there is a sense of disappointment, but to 'boo' like you are at a sporting event is rather disrespectful.

these are red necks everything is a sporting event to them.

Pfft. Trolls.

Don't be giving the far-right ideas :p

Tempting, as Nancy Pelosi would have to get it first. But if they somehow fail to drown or shoot Ted Kennedy, it's all for naught. ;)

Yeah, well he could hardly say "This sorry ass country owes me big time" could he?

No, but that's because he doesn't feel that way. Or are you saying you actually don't believe the words the man said? Are you saying McCain is lying when he says he owes his country more than it owes him? 'Cause that would make you seem like a douchebag of fairly inordinate magnitude.

I don't care why you feel the need to act like this, but it's a "rotten kid" act that is wearing thin. Back your nonsense up or give it a rest.

in Myrm land John McCain never became a sleezly little mini-Bush.http://www.newsfollowup.com/id/images_14/mccain_bush_hand_butt.jpg
When in Rome ...

Who else is watching it?


Im impressed. McCain showed honor, integrity, and humility. He even tried to shut up his idiotic supporters (who are frankly just be embarassing).

He took responsibility for himself and went out on a positive note.

If this McCain had run, I would have not been terrified of his electon.


Whats everyone else think?

McCain's age at Inaguration: 72
Average Male Lifespan: 75
Fun Fact: Presidents age faster in the White House
Term: 4 years

Sorry, I still find Sarah "nuke Russia over Georgia" Palin quite terrifying. Even if she only rules for a year, or even six months. Palin was McCain's biggest Achilles Heel.

If McCain 2000 had run, he would not have picked Palin.

McCain's age at Inaguration: 72
Average Male Lifespan: 75
Fun Fact: Presidents age faster in the White House
Term: 4 years

Sorry, I still find Sarah "nuke Russia over Georgia" Palin quite terrifying. Even if she only rules for a year, or even six months. Palin was McCain's biggest Achilles Heel.

Your terror is not misplaced: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc&eur And that's on Fox. (sorry if it's already been posted)

Seriously, have you ever noticed how fast Bush and Clinton aged?

Seriously, have you ever noticed how fast Bush and Clinton aged?
You'd think they could have fresh vitae infusions without a lot of interference with all that power. Kinda perplexing, yes.

No, but that's because he doesn't feel that way. Or are you saying you actually don't believe the words the man said? Are you saying McCain is lying when he says he owes his country more than it owes him? 'Cause that would make you seem like a douchebag of fairly inordinate magnitude.

I don't care why you feel the need to act like this, but it's a "rotten kid" act that is wearing thin. Back your nonsense up or give it a rest.

It's The Artist Formerly Known As The Potato Factory. I think you just answered your own question right there.

Seriously, have you ever noticed how fast Bush and Clinton aged?

It's the ring of power Frodo, throw it into th efurnace of Mt Doom and create an anarcho-syndicalist Hobbit society.:eek:

Your terror is not misplaced: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc&eur And that's on Fox. (sorry if it's already been posted)

Holy stinking shitballs.

It's The Artist Formerly Known As The Potato Factory. I think you just answered your own question right there.

I had forgotten about Spud Farm. *shudders*

Holy stinking shitballs.

Oh don't overreact. She couldn't see it out her window.

Oh don't overreact. She couldn't see it out her window.

Nor could she actually see Russia from out her window, but that didn't stop her from saying what she did.

But she can see North America from her house, so she has no excuse for not being able to name its member countries.

I'm just saying, I've been inspired to not fight for anything; because you'll just end up forgotten and loathed.

Consider this Ferrous Oxide. Sir Winston Churchill, one of Britain's greatest Prime Ministers did not win his first election until 1951. He was chosen by his party to lead, and after the war ended, the people voted the opposition into power. Yet, six years later, he won an election and served another term in office - I would say that it was especially poignant that this wartime leader was Britain's Prime Minister when Queen Elizabeth ascended the throne.

If McCain 2000 had run, he would not have picked Palin.

Indeed. Had McCain 2000 not been shafted back in 2000, he would also have had better choices. The GOP *really* dropped the ball in keeping Cheney in 2004 and not grooming anybody.

Indeed. Had McCain 2000 not been shafted back in 2000, he would also have had better choices. The GOP *really* dropped the ball in keeping Cheney in 2004 and not grooming anybody.

I don't think being Bush's VP would have counted as a bonus in this election.

Consider this Ferrous Oxide. Sir Winston Churchill, one of Britain's greatest Prime Ministers did not win his first election until 1951. He was chosen by his party to lead, and after the war ended, the people voted the opposition into power. Yet, six years later, he won an election and served another term in office - I would say that it was especially poignant that this wartime leader was Britain's Prime Minister when Queen Elizabeth ascended the throne.

He must have won an election to be in the Parliament to begin with. /Nitpicking

I know what you're getting at :p

I think that this was the "real McCain" that I've been longing to see in 2008.

It was pretty good, but the last word confused me: "Rosebud." Maybe Rosebud was something he couldn't get, or something he lost. Anyway, it wouldn't have explained anything... I don't think any word can explain a man's life. No, I guess Rosebud is just a... piece in a jigsaw puzzle... a missing piece.

It was pretty good, but the last word confused me: "Rosebud." Maybe Rosebud was something he couldn't get, or something he lost. Anyway, it wouldn't have explained anything... I don't think any word can explain a man's life. No, I guess Rosebud is just a... piece in a jigsaw puzzle... a missing piece.

:D

I actually got that one.

I love that because I never would have thought about it.

I think it's a bit like the horror movies where the monster turns good before it's destroyed.

Nor could she actually see Russia from out her window, but that didn't stop her from saying what she did.
She says a lot of things. Especially the body language.
Actually, to her "credit" ....
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/elements/supmrge.htm
Certain times of the year we get some interesting temperature inversions ..... sometimes drastic, sometimes not.
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF16/1683.html
Case of "drastic":
http://www.eoearth.org/article/London_smog_disaster,_England

But she can see North America from her house, so she has no excuse for not being able to name its member countries.
Yes she does. Rove et al didn't have time to coach her on it. Too much of that "Drill, baby, drill" into her thick fucking skull about the stuff that would work for the Bush Admin props.

Yes she does. Rove et al didn't have time to coach her on it. Too much of that "Drill, baby, drill" into her thick fucking skull about the stuff that would work for the Bush Admin props.

Reportedly, she refused briefings they were trying to give her. She refused to prepare for the Katie Couric interview, for example. Once again, there is no excuse for that.

She says a lot of things. Especially the body language.
Actually, to her "credit" ....
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/elements/supmrge.htm
Certain times of the year we get some interesting temperature inversions ..... sometimes drastic, sometimes not.
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF16/1683.html
Case of "drastic":
http://www.eoearth.org/article/London_smog_disaster,_England

Cool links. Meteorology was what I'd have tried if I hadn't fallen for music.

Cool links. Meteorology was what I'd have tried if I hadn't fallen for music.Thank you. :)
Not both?
Por que?
I could totally see it as a "dancing about architecture" motif. Seriously.

Reportedly, she refused briefings they were trying to give her. She refused to prepare for the Katie Couric interview, for example. Once again, there is no excuse for that.Maybe God told her to do it or something.
Or it could have been inferring that these were cases where she simply wasn't going to eke by on looks, facial tics and hormones alone.

Thank you. :)
Not both?
Por que?
I could totally see it as a "dancing about architecture" motif. Seriously.

I didn't have that kind of time. A music ed. degree is effectively two degrees in one.

I didn't have that kind of time. A music ed. degree is effectively two degrees in one.
I know there's a lot in it ... but both major and minor? *terrible, terrible entendre*

I know there's a lot in it ... but both major and minor? *terrible, terrible entendre*

More like a double major (music performance/ed and education), but hey, who am I to deny you your fun?

More like a double major (music performance/ed and education), but hey, who am I to deny you your fun?I had more than a modicum of self control to not pun the bejeebus out of that post, difficult as it were. :)
Or this one.

I had more than a modicum of self control to not pun the bejeebus out of that post, difficult as it were. :)
Or this one.

It's the weekend, control is for pishers.

I was referring to the surrender thing.

What surrender thing?

Oh, wait, you're probably referring to when there military was overrun and their capitol was taken, thus removing central control of what was left of their military...
Yeah, you're right it was weakness/cowardice that caused France's surrender in WWII...
:rolleyes:

This _was_ the McCain that ran. You couldn't see it for your bias.

Really, I watched a number of his rallys and from what I saw, the John McCain that ran was not the John McCain of 2000. If he had been, rather than pandering to the religious right I would have voted for him.

I don't think being Bush's VP would have counted as a bonus in this election.

That'd be why he was never seen with McCain, no? ;)
Hell, I'm not sure I've seen him in the news for the past 2-3 months!

It sounded slightly robotic at parts, but it was a good, gracious speech. What a good loser.

I think it was his best speech of his campaign. Old McCain shone through there :wink: