NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok at this point victory for Obama appears to be inevitable.

So let me say congrats to Obama and his supporters.

Also, looks like a Democrat majority in Congress. Ok.

So now it's time to put up or shut up. All the scapegoats are voted out, all the excuses are out of the way. It's time to impress the hell out of everybody with wise governance, if indeed that is possible. No more bitching about the President, no more bitching about Republicans blocking stuff. No more whining. You've got the power, now use it wisely.

Isn't this basically a 'bitching about Obama winning' thread... even BEFORE Obama has won?

lol actually its better than that. Its a "look at all the mistakes Obama's made" thread before Obama's even been elected .. .Impressive

Learn to read. Please. Just learn to read. I said gratz, then I said now show me what you've got.

Or are you putting your excuses in place early? Show some confidence.

Even though I've been very vocal this campaign season, I'm refusing to gloat in real life until we get the approval ratings. Then I'll be happy, but no sooner.

What he's got is a black hole of a deficit. It's an excuse, but a damn good one.

Also, looks like a Democrat majority in Congress. Ok.

Only in the senate so far, we still have to see about the House.

What he's got is a black hole of a deficit. It's an excuse, but a damn good one.

He voted for it.

Green jobs now!!!

Only in the senate so far, we still have to see about the House.

Meh at this point there's a pretty big advantage of dems over republicans and CA hasn't reported in yet

lol actually its better than that. Its a "look at all the mistakes Obama's made" thread before Obama's even been elected .. .Impressive

It was over when Obama won New Mexico.

Well, according to some groups, such as the Mormons, Obama, because he is part black, is descended from the first murder, Cain, and was thus forbidden to have authority.

Brigham Young:

"A]ny man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] … in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ…"

“What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see…. I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain"

So, since according to Mormonism, blacks were cursed by God and their black skin is a sign of that (google "Curse of Cain" to see ample LDS teachings on the subject).

Thus, we should be glad if he just refrains from murdering people.

Haha. "Green Jobs!"

You'll be lucky if there are any jobs a year from now.

Well, according to some groups, such as the Mormons, Obama, because he is part black, is descended from the first murder, Cain, and was thus forbidden to have authority.

Brigham Young:

"A]ny man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] … in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ…"

“What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see…. I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain"

So, since according to Mormonism, blacks were cursed by God and their black skin is a sign of that (google "Curse of Cain" to see ample LDS teachings on the subject).

Thus, we should be glad if he just refrains from murdering people.

Don't be a doorknob.

Learn to read. Please. Just learn to read. I said gratz, then I said now show me what you've got.

Or are you putting your excuses in place early? Show some confidence.
No, see, when you say people are "putting their excuses in early" and "don't bitch about republicans blocking things and the president," it's VERY obvious what you're saying. There's no official announcement yet, and yet the sour grapes are so very sour.

No, see, when you say people are "putting their excuses in early" and "don't bitch about republicans blocking things and the president," it's VERY obvious what you're saying. There's no official announcement yet, and yet the sour grapes are so very sour.

I think you guys are looking for a fight. All I'm saying is I want to see what they can do. I've said on tis forum before that the Congress sucks and all I hear back is excuses, usually centered on Bush and Republicans. Now that those are out of the way, I want to see what they can do.

Is that unreasonable? I'm not bitching, because I want to see what happens. I'll bitch if things go south. If they don't, I'll concede I was wrong before.

You guys are putting words in my mouth.

This is far from over. I wouldn't be suprised at all by a McCain victory.

Well, according to some groups, such as the Mormons, Obama, because he is part black, is descended from the first murder, Cain, and was thus forbidden to have authority.

Brigham Young:

"A]ny man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] … in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ…"

“What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see…. I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain"

So, since according to Mormonism, blacks were cursed by God and their black skin is a sign of that (google "Curse of Cain" to see ample LDS teachings on the subject).

Thus, we should be glad if he just refrains from murdering people.

True.... but your quoting of Brigham Young is a past quote. The Mormon church repealed that in the 1970's when they started doing Missionary work in Africa and a lot of new members were black. So it's really a moot point.

Haha. "Green Jobs!"

You'll be lucky if there are any jobs a year from now.

Yea he did say it was a 10 year plan. Sad but it just can't be done any faster than that............Unless we all email the shit out of him about how we can't handle the hurricanes, droughts and other weather events becoming more extreme every year.

This is far from over. I wouldn't be suprised at all by a McCain victory.

I would. At this point he'd have to carry CA to win and that ain't gonna happen.

No, see, when you say people are "putting their excuses in early" and "don't bitch about republicans blocking things and the president," it's VERY obvious what you're saying. There's no official announcement yet, and yet the sour grapes are so very sour.

U R gloating.

Don't be a doorknob.

A doorknob opens doors. Everything I said was true and pertinent to an Obama presidency. If the door to facts bothers you, that's too bad.

But if you think that information is incorrect, I'll see if somebody will open a thread where we can explore whether the Curse of Cain is a real teaching of the LDS Church and how that would effect a Cainite being president.

No White Wolf jokes, you people know who you are.

True.... but your quoting of Brigham Young is a past quote. The Mormon church repealed that in the 1970's when they started doing Missionary work in Africa and a lot of new members were black. So it's really a moot point.

A church can repeal a curse from God? I know they repealed the policy, but if the policy was supposed to be God's will, can the church overrule God?

Can you change supposedly holy and eternal doctrine, because it helps you get new members?

Was Brigham Young wrong, then, when he described God's curse on black people? What does that mean if a prophet is wrong?

More importantly, what about black people somehow changed in the seventies that they were no longer cursed as the church taught for over a century, and how does this effect a black president who, at the time of his birth, was still "cursed by god" according to the LDS church?

Yea he did say it was a 10 year plan. Sad but it just can't be done any faster than that............Unless we all email the shit out of him about how we can't handle the hurricanes, droughts and other weather events becoming more extreme every year.

You have to remember it is the US dependence on foreign oil that keeps interest rates low.

I think you guys are looking for a fight. All I'm saying is I want to see what they can do. I've said on tis forum before that the Congress sucks and all I hear back is excuses, usually centered on Bush and Republicans. Now that those are out of the way, I want to see what they can do.

Is that unreasonable? I'm not bitching, because I want to see what happens. I'll bitch if things go south. If they don't, I'll concede I was wrong before.

You guys are putting words in my mouth.
No, we're quoting your own words back at you. And no, we didn't start a thread categorizing people as "bitching" about the current president and congress (which implies they have no reason to disagree with them) and challenging a party and candidate who've not yet won the race on what they're going to do.

You may be surprised to find out that words have meanings and nuances, and word choice is important because it transmits messages. If you're completely unaware of how your word choice presents your argument, I feel really sorry.

U R gloating.
Really? What definition of gloating are you using, given that I haven't even mentioned a candidate and that I am simply pointing out that this thread is a preemptive complaint?

A doorknob opens doors. Everything I said was true and pertinent to an Obama presidency. If the door to facts bothers you, that's too bad.

But if you think that information is incorrect, I'll see if somebody will open a thread where we can explore whether the Curse of Cain is a real teaching of the LDS Church and how that would effect a Cainite being president.

No White Wolf jokes, you people know who you are.

I'm not wasting my time on this. Read for yourself. (http://www.blacklds.org/)

But if you think that information is incorrect, I'll see if somebody will open a thread where we can explore whether the Curse of Cain is a real teaching of the LDS Church and how that would effect a Cainite being president.

No White Wolf jokes, you people know who you are.
Awwww, Hammurab....

*puts away her Malkavian character sheet*

Can't wait until he gets elected and you'll all see how good he is at keeping his promises. Saying you'll bring around change is a lot easier than actualing making it happen! The last laugh will be on us when you all realize he's not as good as you think he is.

No, we're quoting your own words back at you. And no, we didn't start a thread categorizing people as "bitching" about the current president and congress (which implies they have no reason to disagree with them) and challenging a party and candidate who've not yet won the race on what they're going to do.

You may be surprised to find out that words have meanings and nuances, and word choice is important because it transmits messages. If you're completely unaware of how your word choice presents your argument, I feel really sorry.


Really? What definition of gloating are you using, given that I haven't even mentioned a candidate and that I am simply pointing out that this thread is a preemptive complaint?

Not every molehill can believably be turned into a mountain. Why so sensitive? Aren't you confident in your new President?

Awwww, Hammurab....

*puts away her Malkavian character sheet*

: pretends not to have that Lasombra sheet nearby:

You have to remember it is the US dependence on foreign oil that keeps interest rates low.

America's dependence on foreign oil is it's heart. We can't keep asking other nations for permission to live. Oil (for the most part) has got to go!

A church can repeal a curse from God? I know they repealed the policy, but if the policy was supposed to be God's will, can the church overrule God?

Can you change supposedly holy and eternal doctrine, because it helps you get new members?

Was Brigham Young wrong, then, when he described God's curse on black people? What does that mean if a prophet is wrong?

More importantly, what about black people somehow changed in the seventies that they were no longer cursed as the church taught for over a century, and how does this effect a black president who, at the time of his birth, was still "cursed by god" according to the LDS church?

*sighs* It's complicated but the prophet at the time said he recieved a revelation from God that changed the policy the Chruch had on the positon. It also has to do with the whole civil rights era as well. I am a member of the Mormon faith. At the time the policy changed, there were a lot of people who weren't happy about it and were racist about it.But the church no longer discrminates on the accout of skin color. It didn't effect my voting choice, as I am sure most people know I voted for Obama. I accept what Brigham Young has said. The thing is, in my church's perpective it was the factor of time that changed this postion. The church was founded in a time when racism and slavery took place. But it's 2008 and times do change.

Really? What definition of gloating are you using, given that I haven't even mentioned a candidate and that I am simply pointing out that this thread is a preemptive complaint?

I am using the definition where you don't mention a candidate and point out preemptive complaints.

So there!

*sighs* It's complicated but the prophet at the time said he recieved a revelation from God that changed the policy the Chruch had on the positon. It also has to do with the whole civil rights era as well. I am a member of the Mormon faith. At the time the policy changed, there were a lot of people who weren't happy about it and were racist about it.But the church no longer discrminates on the accout of skin color. It didn't effect my voting choice, as I am sure most people know I voted for Obama. I accept what Brigham Young has said. The thing is, in my church's perpective it was the factor of time that changed this postion. The church was founded in a time when racism and slavery took place. But it's 2008 and times do change.

Actually, Joseph Smith himself ordained a couple of Black brethren to the Melchizedek Priesthood. Whatever Brigham Young's motives were, they weren't necessarily compatible with the Prophet's perspective on this matter.

Not every molehill can believably be turned into a mountain. Why so sensitive? Aren't you confident in your new President?
Neo, please, you're smarter than this.

So now it's time to put up or shut up. All the scapegoats are voted out, all the excuses are out of the way. It's time to impress the hell out of everybody with wise governance, if indeed that is possible. No more bitching about the President, no more bitching about Republicans blocking stuff. No more whining. You've got the power, now use it wisely.

Are you honestly going to say you're unaware that your choice of words are potentially flamebait?

Are you honestly going to say that lambasting people about their "confidence" is anything resembling debate, or is it just trying to get someone to rise to your bait?

I am using the definition where you don't mention a candidate and point out preemptive complaints.

So there!
In other words, you've pulled it out of... the ether. Either that, or, to quote my hero, I. Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Here, this may help: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gloat

Actually, Joseph Smith himself ordained a couple of Black brethren to the Melchizedek Priesthood. Whatever Brigham Young's motives were, they weren't necessarily compatible with the Prophet's perspective on this matter.

*nods* Joseph Smith wanted to give the preisthood to everyone even blacks. But... a majority of the membership in the church was white and well rasist, in a lot of ways it had to deal with the growth of the Church. At the time of the founding, the Church wasn't a really big church.

*sighs* It's complicated

Well, I'm sure the premise that "Black People Are Cursed by God Because They Are Descended From Cain" has depth and nuance beyond the obvious.


but the prophet at the time said he recieved a revelation from God that changed the policy the Chruch had on the positon.

I'm familiar with the "revelation", and with the Church's statement that everyone should just "forget about" Blacks being cursed by God. That doesn't answer the question of why God would change the "curse"...either the curse was just and blacks are somehow cursed (which the Church taught as divine truth for many years), or it should never have been taught to begin with. For people to make racist mistakes is understandable, but when you claim to speak for God, and then claim God reversed himself, thats different.


It also has to do with the whole civil rights era as well. I am a member of the Mormon faith. At the time the policy changed, there were a lot of people who weren't happy about it and were racist about it.But the church no longer discrminates on the accout of skin color.

I'm glad the civil rights movement was able to overrule a policy from a "God" and I support that. But the church claimed God cursed black people. When they reversed it, they claimed "forget about what Brigham Young said", yet they constantly quote him on every other matter. Was Brigham Young speaking for God when he said "God says blacks are cursed", and was he telling the truth?


It didn't effect my voting choice, as I am sure most people know I voted for Obama. I accept what Brigham Young has said. The thing is, in my church's perpective it was the factor of time that changed this postion. The church was founded in a time when racism and slavery took place. But it's 2008 and times do change.

That is very true, and I'm glad that teachings that come from "prophets" and "gods" can later be recognized as false and be changed.

Neo, please, you're smarter than this.



Are you honestly going to say you're unaware that your choice of words are potentially flamebait?

Are you honestly going to say that lambasting people about their "confidence" is anything resembling debate, or is it just trying to get someone to rise to your bait?

In other words, you've pulled it out of... the ether.

You are taking it WAY wrong, and at this point you can either take my word for that or go on believing it was flamebait. Either way I'm not going to continue repeating myself.

The fact is, I was very irritated by all the excuse mongering in those past debates, so if my bitterness on that shows here then I'm sorry, but I am trying to keep an open mind here to see if the excuses were valid or not. In my opinion, they were not, but we'll see over the next couple of years, won't we?

*nods* Joseph Smith wanted to give the preisthood to everyone even blacks. But... a majority of the membership in the church was white and well rasist, in a lot of ways it had to deal with the growth of the Church. At the time of the founding, the Church wasn't a really big church.

Here's a good resource on these matters. (http://www.blacklds.org/)

America's dependence on foreign oil is it's heart. We can't keep asking other nations for permission to live. Oil (for the most part) has got to go!

Personally I agree. I think interest rates are far too low, the only way forward is too allow liquidation of the bad asset base of this country. Then things can move forward again. (Actually, then green energy is possible, b/c new industry won't be crowded out from supporting the bad assets created over the past twenty years).

But the government, and people in general, are far too squeamish to let that happen. I can't see the next president pushing a policy that will push interest rates, there are simply too many entrenched interests. (Like the dependence of state and local governments on low interest rates to function. I mean, which universities should we close first?).

If Obama wins Ohio, McCain can take a hike.

With Cheney and his gun.

Actually, Joseph Smith himself ordained a couple of Black brethren to the Melchizedek Priesthood. Whatever Brigham Young's motives were, they weren't necessarily compatible with the Prophet's perspective on this matter.

If you know your own Church doctrine, you know that Brigham Young was considered a Prophet, as well, just not a "dispensation head".

So, if their revelations from God are "incompatible" one or the other (or both) was a false prophet.

At the time Obama was born, the Church still taught that Blacks were cursed by God. What changed about blacks that they could have this curse lifted? Why would a just God curse blacks to begin with?

Joseph Smith also had a bar in his house and drank alchohol. So, since he can override Young on race, and he override him on the Word of Wisdom, or do we pick and choose when to follow and when to ignore "prophets" and what God ostensibly told them?

Intersting question: How old was Obama when he went from being "cursed by God as taught by the prophets of the LDS Church" to "no longer cursed by God"?

I mean, which universities should we close first?).

With all due respect sir, the God Damm University of War. (GDUW) From now on we get into wars to fight. Not to drain the taxpayer.

You are taking it WAY wrong, and at this point you can either take my word for that or go on believing it was flamebait. Either way I'm not going to continue repeating myself.

The fact is, I was very irritated by all the excuse mongering in those past debates, so if my bitterness on that shows here then I'm sorry, but I am trying to keep an open mind here to see if the excuses were valid or not. In my opinion, they were not, but we'll see over the next couple of years, won't we? (emphasis added)

And you say "us guys" are the ones looking for a fight?

If you know your own Church doctrine, you know that Brigham Young was considered a Prophet, as well, just not a "dispensation head".

It'll be a cold day in Hell when you can educate me in LDS history, my friend. I know this. I know a lot more about it than you do. I also know there are issues and details you have no clue about. Click on the link I gave you and educate yourself.


So, if their revelations from God are "incompatible" one or the other (or both) was a false prophet.

At the time Obama was born, the Church still taught that Blacks were cursed by God. What changed about blacks that they could have this curse lifted? Why would a just God curse blacks to begin with?


Go read.


Joseph Smith also had a bar in his house and drank alchohol. So, since he can override Young on race, and he override him on the Word of Wisdom, or do we pick and choose when to follow and when to ignore "prophets" and what God ostensibly told them?


There are more problems with that paragraph than I'm inclined to count tonight.


Intersting question: How old was Obama when he went from being "cursed by God as taught by the prophets of the LDS Church" to "no longer cursed by God"?

Just go read.

In other words, you've pulled it out of... the ether. Either that, or, to quote my hero, I. Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Who is Montoya?

Here, this may help: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gloat

You didn't get any self satisfaction from your first post?

(emphasis added)

And you say "us guys" are the ones looking for a fight?

I said, basically, "congratulations, now put up or shut up."

That you have a problem with that is very telling to me.

*nods* Joseph Smith wanted to give the preisthood to everyone even blacks.

Even women?

{ignore this, it would be a total threadjack}

He is elected. If he doesn't do well lets elect someone else in 4 years.

Even women?

{ignore this, it would be a total threadjack}

I think it's a bit late to be worried about that now ;)

It'll be a cold day in Hell when you can educate me in LDS history, my friend. I know this. I know a lot more about it than you do. I also know there are issues and details you have no clue about. Click on the link I gave you and educate yourself.

Go read.

There are more problems with that paragraph than I'm inclined to count tonight.

Just go read.


The incredible irony is, there is no hell in Mormon theology, just the three "mansions of God" and the Outer Darkness. In your attempt to posture yourself as so thoroughly knowledgeable, you misunderstand a rudimentary doctrine.

And then, unable to present a cogent response on your own, you want me to read somebody else's response.

I guess its like when you act out of bitterness, warning against "excuses" for things that haven't happened yet, and then present a link to excuses for things that have happened.

I said, basically, "congratulations, now put up or shut up."

That you have a problem with that is very telling to me.

You seriously don't see how that is clearly ascerbic and "looking for a fight"?

Katganistan had it right, and I hate agreeing with mods, but she's got you dead cold.

The incredible irony is, there is no hell in Mormon theology, just the three "mansions of God" and the Outer Darkness. In your attempt to posture yourself as so thoroughly knowledgeable, you misunderstand a rudimentary doctrine.

And then, unable to present a cogent response on your own, you want me to read somebody else's response.


Thank you for that. I needed a good chuckle to lighten my mood. Much appreciated :)


I guess its like when you act out of bitterness, warning against "excuses" for things that haven't happened yet, and then present a link to excuses for things that have happened.

Um... yah. What you said. lol.

With all due respect sir, the God Damm University of War. (GDUW) From now on we get into wars to fight. Not to drain the taxpayer.

I don't disagree that military spending should be cut.

It doesn't change the fact that importing oil keeps interest rates low. And artificially low interest rates (and hence asset price appreciation) is how the US economy runs. Everybody in Washington, more or less, desperately tries to support this scam. Anything they say to the contrary should be ignored.

So imported oil it is.

Who is Montoya?



You didn't get any self satisfaction from your first post?
No, not particularly. Just pointing out the "fighting words" present in the OP.

And you? Having any satisfaction in your attempt at ruffling feathers?

It's official -- yahoo (and AP) show Obama as having 324 electoral votes.

And Montoya, of course, is Inigo Montoya.

Thank you for that. I needed a good chuckle to lighten my mood. Much appreciated :)

Um... yah. What you said. lol.

These are complete non-responses.

Much like your link left out a number of things such as when the Prophet of the Church said "We believe’ that we have a scriptural precedent for withholding the priesthood from the negro. It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice someday will be changed. And that’s all there is to it".

Your LDS published link is hardly an unbiased source, and it contradicts a number of things Young and other "prophets" said, yet other church links quote those prophets at length, but very selectively.

EDIT: But since earlier you told me to "just read", I think I'll go back through the LDS history, the general discourses, published statements by the prophets which they claim was revealed to them from God, and any number of sources, and see what I can come up with. My Walken thread should survive long enough for me to find some interesting things that the LDS has taught as coming inerrably from god.

I think it's a bit late to be worried about that now ;)

Maybe. =)

Ah well. It is NSG.

And Montoya, of course, is Inigo Montoya.

It sounds like a cheap aftershave.

I don't disagree that military spending should be cut.

It doesn't change the fact that importing oil keeps interest rates low. And artificially low interest rates (and hence asset price appreciation) is how the US economy runs. Everybody in Washington, more or less, desperately tries to support this scam. Anything they say to the contrary should be ignored.

So imported oil it is.

Working towards American energy independence can only make things better. Working towards a greener world can only make things better AND safer. If foreign nations want something to sell America, they should look to take the lead in green energy. The race for green energy IS ON!

And you? Having any satisfaction in your attempt at ruffling feathers?

I am so not ruffling feathers. If I wanted to do that I'd start an abortion thread.

Working towards American energy independence can only make things better. Working towards a greener world can only make things better AND safer. If foreign nations want something to sell America, they should look to take the lead in green energy. The race for green energy IS ON!

I agree with you. The politicians in Washington don't.

Here's what they are going to do. You are going to get an energy tax of some sort.

That's it.

Edit: You have to look at this in the context of people who vote for tax money to keep people in 5,000 sq.ft homes, often an hour or more's drive from where they work. That is not a very green attitude is it?

These are complete non-responses.

Much like your link left out a number of things such as when the Prophet of the Church said "We believe’ that we have a scriptural precedent for withholding the priesthood from the negro. It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice someday will be changed. And that’s all there is to it".

Your LDS published link is hardly an unbiased source, and it contradicts a number of things Young and other "prophets" said, yet other church links quote those prophets at length, but very selectively.

You know, I'm real sorry you're frustrated that I'm not responding to your baiting/threadjack. The issues you're trying to throw in my face are issues that I seriously doubt you have enough knowledge of to have a meaningful discussion about. I'd be happy to educate you, but you whined when I offered a link that would explain things better than I can so I must conclude that you don't want to discuss, you want to attack.

And frankly, I'm not here to play your game. Sorry. If you REALLY want to go into this then send me a TG and we'll talk it over later. But work comes early in the morning and I'm not gonna stay up late just to satisfy your need to go Mormon bashing.

(I won't be holding my breath on that TG. though.)

Maybe. =)

Ah well. It is NSG.

Roger that.

(Good to see you again, BTW.)

It sounds like a cheap aftershave.

But he's Inigo Montoya. You killed his father! Prepare to... diet?

I agree with you. The politicians in Washington don't.

Here's what they are going to do. You are going to get an energy tax of some sort.

That's it.

The damage from climate change is overwhelming. Obama has no oil ties like Bush did. Green is coming.

Democratic congress + Democratic president = THE IMMINENT FAILURE OF AMERICA.

And you know this, Man!

I decided to vote for Obama. Now that the dems have the power of the Legislative and Executive branches, I want to see them do something.

I'm cautiously optimistic in this.

Democratic congress + Democratic president = THE IMMINENT FAILURE OF AMERICA.

And you know this, Man!

Oh, I have this to look foward to for the next four years.


Oh God. Awesome.

Democratic congress + Democratic president = THE IMMINENT FAILURE OF AMERICA.

And you know this, Man!

As opposed to the INEVITABLE failure of America under Republican Congress + Republican President of the last 7 years?

:tongue:

But he's Inigo Montoya. You killed his father! Prepare to... diet?

Alright. I decided to support the oppressors of the chinese people and used google.

But I still say it sounds like cheap aftershave.

Oh, I have this to look foward to for the next four years.


Oh God. Awesome.

Alright KoL, you're the one I had in mind with this ;)

Shall we put up some sort of friendly wager?

Alright KoL, you're the one I had in mind with this ;)

Shall we put up some sort of friendly wager?

On what, Im sorry, I didnt read the OP:p

On what, Im sorry, I didnt read the OP:p

don't make me beat you :p

don't make me beat you :p

I just read it.


Whats our wadger? How much will get done?


Im guessing he'll get a lot done, but he relied on moderates and independents to win. Combine that with his overwhelming desire to comprimise, I think we'll see a lot pushed through, but not quite in the form that Obama had said it would be.


He'll push his policies through, but Im willing to bet he'll let the Republicans have their say.

I just read it.


Whats our wadger? How much will get done?


Im guessing he'll get a lot done, but he relied on moderates and independents to win. Combine that with his overwhelming desire to comprimise, I think we'll see a lot pushed through, but not quite in the form that Obama had said it would be.


He'll push his policies through, but Im willing to bet he'll let the Republicans have their say.

I hope you're right, because that would actually rock if he really does reach across the aisle.

But if he doesn't, I'm gonna make you eat that. :D

I hope you're right, because that would actually rock if he really does reach across the aisle.

But if he doesn't, I'm gonna make you eat that. :D

Ill be the first to admit it if he doesnt reach across the aisle.

It needs to be within reason though. If Republican comprimise means instituting McCain's healthcare plan instead of his own, I wouldnt expect him or want him to reach across the aisle.

And as an aside, if he doesnt reach across the aisle that doesnt mean I still wont agree with his decisions;)

Ill be the first to admit it if he doesnt reach across the aisle.

It needs to be within reason though. If Republican comprimise means instituting McCain's healthcare plan instead of his own, I wouldnt expect him or want him to reach across the aisle.

And as an aside, if he doesnt reach across the aisle that doesnt mean I still wont agree with his decisions;)

I guess at this point the big question will be whether or not Democrats in Congress get the supermajority

I guess at this point the big question will be whether or not Democrats in Congress get the supermajority

Last I saw they had 57 members.


What is defined as a super majority?

Even women?

{ignore this, it would be a total threadjack}

I meant ever man. The priesthood takes a diffrent turn with women. It's more of a factor that woman who marries a man with the priesthood has a joint partnership with it, which is more of a doctrinal factor. And I've never really desired having the Mormon priesthood. And a lot of Mormon women, probably not all of them, don't want it. But this thread has gotten waaaay off topic. You want to start a Mormon thread feel free.

Last I saw they had 57 members.


What is defined as a super majority?

60 I think

Last I saw they had 57 members.


What is defined as a super majority?

60; takes the filibuster off the table.

Roger that.

(Good to see you again, BTW.)

<3

Feel free to ignore me tonight though. Despite having eaten and having good news, I'm inexplicably bitchy.

<3

Feel free to ignore me tonight though. Despite having eaten and having good news, I'm inexplicably bitchy.

Sounds like a good time for me to hit the sack! Nite all.

Sounds like a good time for me to hit the sack! Nite all.

'night.

The man sure can sling the words, can't he?

No, see, when you say people are "putting their excuses in early" and "don't bitch about republicans blocking things and the president," it's VERY obvious what you're saying. There's no official announcement yet, and yet the sour grapes are so very sour.

hmm, just sounds like hes challenging the dems to put up or shut up to me.

hmm, just sounds like hes challenging the dems to put up or shut up to me.
Uh huh.
Read rest of thread, kthnxbai.

Uh huh.
Read rest of thread, kthnxbai.

Already read it all (before I posted) and I'd say you failed to prove anything. M'kay?

To John McCain: God rewards heroes.

To the President-Elect: Congratulations.

To Productive Americans: Find John Galt.

To Blue-County Voters: You’ll get what you wished for.

To Israel: Pre-empt. Now.

To Red-County Americans: Fort Sumter.

To John McCain: God rewards heroes.

To the President-Elect: Congratulations.

To Productive Americans: Find John Galt.

To Blue-County Voters: You’ll get what you wished for.

To Israel: Pre-empt. Now.


You know, its your weeping that I look foward to the most. It will be like the fine, aged French wine of tears.

To Red-County Americans: Fort Sumter.

Ah, and now your advocating a second civil war. Palin has taught you well.

Just remember NM. If you speak badly about the president, you are anti-American. Thats what Fox News taught me.

To John McCain: God rewards heroes.

To the President-Elect: Congratulations.

To Productive Americans: Find John Galt.

To Blue-County Voters: You’ll get what you wished for.

To Israel: Pre-empt. Now.

To Red-County Americans: Fort Sumter.

New Mitanni is encouraging Israel to escalate a full-blown war in the Middle East and Red Staters to secede from the Union.

Wow, and I thought McCain's supporters were sore losers.

New Mitanni is encouraging Israel to escalate a full-blown war in the Middle East

To be fair, people have been saying that for months.

Ok at this point victory for Obama appears to be inevitable.

So let me say congrats to Obama and his supporters.

Also, looks like a Democrat majority in Congress. Ok.

So now it's time to put up or shut up. All the scapegoats are voted out, all the excuses are out of the way. It's time to impress the hell out of everybody with wise governance, if indeed that is possible. No more bitching about the President, no more bitching about Republicans blocking stuff. No more whining. You've got the power, now use it wisely.

"put up or shut up" implies that there was some challenge. This is the OPENING post, it's not in retaliation to anything. Thus - it is only reasonable to assume we're starting by looking for conflict.

"all the scapegoats are voted out" suggests that you are portraying the slight Democrat advantage of the last two years as somehow failing despite having no good reason, which would make the Republican opposition the 'scapegoats', or excuses, for nothing getting done.

Again - that doesn't look set to start discussion - it looks set to start conflict. It is deliberately combatative, and (one has to assume) deliberately false. A fairly even balance in government makes it hard to push ANYTHING unilaterally.

At the moment, the Democratic party doesn't hold an absolute majority - they can't block filibusters. The 'scapegoats' are still there.

'wise governance, if indeed that is possible' is pure attack, no other content. It's hard to imagine anyone looking at - let's face it, the BEST political campaign any of us can remember - lacks the 'possibility' of 'wise governance'.

'no more bitching about the president, no more bitching about Republicans blocking stuff' is entirely combatative, especially since the Republicans HAVE been - and still will be - 'blocking stuff'.

Who are you attacking? Obama? Or his supporters?

I think your whole opening post was flamebait. I think - further - that it was exactly the sort of behaviour that was being discouraged.

I think you should meditate on your opening, here... once you've got some sleep, and are less inflamed by the news.

To Israel: Pre-empt. Now.

To Red-County Americans: Fort Sumter.

To New Mitanni, from a Jew who supports both Israel and Peace: No.

To New Mitanni, from a Blue County American: Appomattox.

This needs to be stopped, if political parties will only keep separating us instead of bringing us together, then the Elections need to be revaluated.

While democrats hold most of the power in both the Legislative and Executive branches, we also need to understand that democrats are American citizens. I'm always disgusted in the election year, it only shows how horrible we truly are to each other.

To Red-County Americans: Fort Sumter.

Never got to the end of the Civil War chapter in your high school history book? I'll let you in on a little known fact: the South lost. Perhaps not the best of examples to hold up?

Never got to the end of the Civil War chapter in your high school history book? I'll let you in on a little known fact: the South lost. Perhaps not the best of examples to hold up?

Well, maybe he was putting 'blue county' in the shoes of the South, and saying that electing Obama translates to firing guns and committing treason and starting a war.

I dunno, probably he's just re-imagining the ACW with a new director and new cast and a stunning plot twist.

Never got to the end of the Civil War chapter in your high school history book? I'll let you in on a little known fact: the South lost. Perhaps not the best of examples to hold up?

To be fair, after reconstruction was over, the ring leaders pretty much got another two generations of being shit heads out of it.

That's what I am afraid off. I think I am right, I hope I am wrong.

It's about time that Alabama and Mississippi burnt their KKK robes and embraced the new America!

As opposed to the INEVITABLE failure of America under Republican Congress + Republican President of the last 7 years?

:tongue:

How exactly has America failed in the past seven years? What's that? IT HASN'T. Granted, we've seen hard times; but when don't we?

Wow, and I thought McCain's supporters were sore losers.

is it really fair to call people sore losers when in the passion of the moment they say some stupid things?
Have Mccain voters tried anything the next day extreme????

New Mitanni is encouraging Israel to escalate a full-blown war in the Middle East and Red Staters to secede from the Union.

Wow, and I thought McCain's supporters were sore losers.

Lol, Fort Sumter ended up getting the south's ass kicked in the long run.

To New Mitanni, from a Jew who supports both Israel and Peace: No.

To New Mitanni, from a Blue County American: Appomattox.

Never got to the end of the Civil War chapter in your high school history book? I'll let you in on a little known fact: the South lost. Perhaps not the best of examples to hold up?

Lol, Fort Sumter ended up getting the south's ass kicked in the long run.

It's like he's just begging to be made fun of.

Already read it all (before I posted) and I'd say you failed to prove anything. M'kay?

Katganistan didn't have to 'prove' anything. It's quite clear in the first post, the intention of baiting one side of the election.

"I think you guys are looking for a fight. All I'm saying is I want to see what they can do."

Then why not just say that, and nothing else?

"I'm looking forward to seeing what the Democrats can do to improve the situation of the nation." - Non-offensive, not baiting, and quite optimistic.

Just a suggestion.

How exactly has America failed in the past seven years? What's that? IT HASN'T. Granted, we've seen hard times; but when don't we?

Oh.... you know, the whole fact that our reputation has taken a large hit... the economy has fallen horribly, the Iraq war is largely criticized by the entire world, Afghanistan is falling apart, the fact that the current Congress has been considered the most ineffective Congress in all of American history... umm.... I'm sure I can think of more things, if you'd like.

Shoot, considering what six years of Republican one-party rule brought us, I'm not too confident on another round of it regardless of who's actually in power. Both parties tend screw things up in their own unique ways when they're unchecked by the other, so I have a feeling this situation won't last too long.

All I want is a good split government like we had in much of the 1980's and 1990's. That worked out well for us.

Shoot, considering what six years of Republican one-party rule brought us, I'm not too confident on another round of it regardless of who's actually in power. Both parties tend screw things up in their own unique ways when they're unchecked by the other, so I have a feeling this situation won't last too long.

All I want is a good split government like we had in much of the 1980's and 1990's. That worked out well for us.

Two-party systems work only when both sides are 1) at least moderately focused on governance, 2) not at war with each other, and 3) are not continually being rewarded for their party orthodoxy. The 80's and 90's, and 2007-2009, both had divided governments. One was comparatively productive, the other the height of inproductivity. So there's nothing inherent to divided government that makes it effective. Rather, what makes it effective is that back in the 80's, when we had larger true split-ticket voting populations in larger numbers of more competitive districts, incumbents would be punished if Congress as a whole was unproductive.

Now, while "independents" generally have increased, most of those are in the form of closet "leans right" or "leans left" liberals or conservatives who like the patina of independence; very few are true split-ticketers. Moreover, thanks to the sorting that's been going on in the last 20 years (Slate has been doing some extensive work on this, search the sight for "The Great Sorting", I believe), more of these liberals and conservatives are aligning themselves in districts with uncompetitive districts: to repeat and expand, the problem isn't solely that districts are gerrymandered to be unbalanced; increasingly, it's impossible to gerrymander them to make them balanced while still respecting other laws such as geographic integrity.

The consequence of these changes is that elected representatives at a federal level are rewarded for party orthodoxy, not for overall productivity of Congress. Don't believe me, just look who took the hit for the failings of the social-con and neo-con wing of the Republican Party in the last election: the last vestige of Rockefeller Republicanism in the Northeast and libertarian conservatives in the West and Midwest. What's left is even more social conservative and neo-con than before, and they're even more convinced that liberals are something to be combatted, not negotiated with. The same thing was true back in FDR's day; there couldn't be mixed-party rule so long as Republicans were wanting to roll back the whole of the New Deal. It was only when Republicans like Eisenhower made their peace with the basic issues of the day and focused on how much or how far we want to carry these basically settled principles that effective two-party systems could work. We're currently at that FDR point now, where we really need one party rule just so that hopefully, we can set some sort of baseline over the next 5 years that, if you deviate too far from, you just aren't acceptable to the country as a whole. It's only from there, where the basic ideas are settled, that we expect a two-party system to work.

Change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan. A very clever campaign slogan. The change you get may not be the change you voted for. Change means alot of different things to different persons. Especially for Independent voters who have just elected a Liberal Democrat with a Liberal Democrat congress. For Liberals no problem.

Change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan. A very clever campaign slogan. The change you get may not be the change you voted for. Change means alot of different things to different persons. Especially for Independent voters who have just elected a Liberal Democrat with a Liberal Democrat congress. For Liberals no problem.

News Flash: Florida went to Obama. That means your fellow Cubans are Castro Lovers according to you.

Deal.

:tongue:

Change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan. A very clever campaign slogan. The change you get may not be the change you voted for. Change means alot of different things to different persons. Especially for Independent voters who have just elected a Liberal Democrat with a Liberal Democrat congress. For Liberals no problem.

Dude, we already got change.

Simply swapping the balance of power up a little is an improvement, already.

Whats our wadger? How much will get done?


I hope you're right, because that would actually rock if he really does reach across the aisle.

But if he doesn't, I'm gonna make you eat that. :D

Ill be the first to admit it if he doesnt reach across the aisle.

It needs to be within reason though. If Republican comprimise means instituting McCain's healthcare plan instead of his own, I wouldnt expect him or want him to reach across the aisle.

And as an aside, if he doesnt reach across the aisle that doesnt mean I still wont agree with his decisions;)

Oooh a wadger!...I'll keep the tally! (*grabs slate and chalk*)



Ah, and now your advocating a second civil war. Palin has taught you well.

Just remember NM. If you speak badly about the president, you are anti-American. Thats what Fox News taught me.

I think the point of the joke is that the Republicans just got beaten badly and should advocate more strongly for states rights or risk losing them being taken away....Or you could be right KoL...another civil war. :p

And again, your facts are wrong, please actually investigate first before watching Keith Obermann.....Palin is not a seccesionalist that MSNBC, NBC, CBS, CNN, ect. claim she is. She has been registered in the GOP since 1982, and even the party in question iteslf has no record of her ever joining.

And what is with the sudden rise in Fox News comments? What has the big 'F' ever done to you? :)


This needs to be stopped, if political parties will only keep separating us instead of bringing us together, then the Elections need to be revaluated. While democrats hold most of the power in both the Legislative and Executive branches, we also need to understand that democrats are American citizens. I'm always disgusted in the election year, it only shows how horrible we truly are to each other.

I Agree with everything that you said in the above text. I can't believe all of the threats from McCain supporters to Obama about him "being Muslim" or "the Marxist/Socalist" and "EVVVVVVILLLLL!!!!". On the other hand, I don't like the "The Massiah has arrived!!!!" "Obama is gonna pay my morgage and my car payments and my debt!" and the 'Palin= No Nothing Slutz' comments. It just goes to show that with only 2 major factions, there can only be trouble, and it has only escalated within the past few years.

Shoot, considering what six years of Republican one-party rule brought us, I'm not too confident on another round of it regardless of who's actually in power. Both parties tend screw things up in their own unique ways when they're unchecked by the other, so I have a feeling this situation won't last too long.

All I want is a good split government like we had in much of the 1980's and 1990's. That worked out well for us.

I don't quite realize how it was a one-party rule...there were Democrates there as well, and it wasn't exactly a 'super majority' for Republicans.

But it seems that under a split party system, an example, under Clinton, things supprisingly get done faster and more effectively due to the split near even between Republicans and Democrats. And less is achieved when one party dominates over the other....logic does not come to politcs....

To New Mitanni, from a Jew who supports both Israel and Peace: No.

To New Mitanni, from a Blue County American: Appomattox.

I'm just quoting this for ownage.

So.... Civil War round II? (I wonder how long it will take for the South to get their asses kicked this time)

How exactly has America failed in the past seven years? What's that? IT HASN'T. Granted, we've seen hard times; but when don't we?

Oh.... you know, the whole fact that our reputation has taken a large hit... the economy has fallen horribly, the Iraq war is largely criticized by the entire world, Afghanistan is falling apart, the fact that the current Congress has been considered the most ineffective Congress in all of American history... umm.... I'm sure I can think of more things, if you'd like.

You'd think a Mod of all people would notice and not continue a gravedig.

Ok at this point victory for Obama appears to be inevitable.

So let me say congrats to Obama and his supporters.

Also, looks like a Democrat majority in Congress. Ok.

So now it's time to put up or shut up. All the scapegoats are voted out, all the excuses are out of the way. It's time to impress the hell out of everybody with wise governance, if indeed that is possible. No more bitching about the President, no more bitching about Republicans blocking stuff. No more whining. You've got the power, now use it wisely.

All our rights will be withered and our taxes raised. We will move left and socialistic. The damage may quite possible be irreversible.

But of course, we will hear the drum beating the whole time on how this is all Bush's fault. Prepare for nausea.

You'd think a Mod of all people would notice and not continue a gravedig.

You'd think that if you knew about it, you'd report it to the moderation forum rather than take a cheap shot in the thread.

Seriously, I don't look at the timestamp on every single post in every single thread. And yes, we're not all-knowing. Shocker, ain't it? On that note, iLock.