NationStates Jolt Archive

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

Nope, I can tell the time either way.

It's easy math, but certainly it's less immediate than simply seeing the number right in front of you. And "12" is an unwieldy number.

That said, it would probably be generally better and less confusing if everyone used, and was used to, the 24-hour system.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

Not particularly, no.

If you want painful clocks, try working with a clock system in decimal relative to local midnight.

I.e. a clock where 2051 (8:51 PM) is written as -3.15.

The value of losing the am/pm nonsense far, far outweighs dealing with elementary subtraction.

Fass, why didn't you say what the location field read? Or should we just assume it's the US?

I hate 12 hour clocks and anyone that uses them. There is no reason why it should go from 11:59 AM to 12:00 PM. It's illogical; it's unseemly; it's unsanitary.

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

No, I understand basic numeracy.

In my head, it's an anglo thing.

When I think in another language than english, I use the 24 hour clock, and when dealing with anglos, I tend to use the 12 hour clock.

Unless I'm trying to annoy her.

The value of losing the am/pm nonsense far, far outweighs dealing with elementary subtraction.

Fass, why didn't you say what the location field read? Or should we just assume it's the US?
The thing is, if we completely ditched the 12 hour clock there wouldn't be any need for subtraction. 2300 would just be 2300, no need to think about it being 11 PM at all.
It's the same thing with the Metric system, learning conversions is hard, but just using the damn thing isn't.

What's important is remembering that it's five o'clock somewhere.

Meh. I can use either one.

Are you seriously trying to posit a possibility that 'anglophones' are less likely to be able to read a 24 hour clock?

Are you seriously trying to posit a possibility that 'anglophones' are less likely to be able to read a 24 hour clock?
It makes even less sense when you consider that anyone capable of responding the poll is, in fact, an anglophone. I suppose there might be one or two people using translators, but not that many.

The value of losing the am/pm nonsense far, far outweighs dealing with elementary subtraction.

I don't see why you would have to subtract. 21.00 is 21.00. "Nine in the evening" is largely deprecated where I live, anyway...

Fass, why didn't you say what the location field read? Or should we just assume it's the US?

I didn't want to take the assumption away from you.

Are you seriously trying to posit a possibility that 'anglophones' are less likely to be able to read a 24 hour clock?

Of course, anyone speaking English as their first language are obviously less adept at reading clocks, then, say, someone speaking Swedish.:rolleyes:

i do tend to prefer 12 hour clocks, but telling the time with a 24h one is just fine. you just know that 21.00 is 9pm, or 17.00 is 5pm. very occasionally i will confuse, say, 18.00 with 8pm, or 19.00 with 5pm (don't know why i do that latter one lol), but it is rare

now, analogue clocks... they're hard.

Perhaps we could genetically engineer extra fingers and toes to help this kind of inbred do simple maths with numbers as high as 24.

What's important is remembering that it's five o'clock somewhere.


How true Megaloria!!! And everytime that "It's five o'clock somewhere", I feel the need to "Pop a top again":hail:

I don't see why you would have to subtract. 21.00 is 21.00. "Nine in the evening" is largely deprecated where I live, anyway...

Unfortunately, where the 12-hour clock is the norm, kids in school can't help having that system inculcated into their minds. I was one of them. Had I been given the choice, I'd have chosen to number each of the 24 hours independently. That not being the case here, I had to learn to subtract until it became habit, long after the age of easy habituation.

I didn't want to take the assumption away from you.

Most kind. Thank you.

Are you seriously trying to posit a possibility that 'anglophones' are less likely to be able to read a 24 hour clock?

Are you seriously this bad at reading that you have to make things up in your head instead of reading what was written?

The Anglophone/Non-anglophone bits are there mostly to see whether my hunch that the 24-hour clock is yet one more thing most of the rest of the world makes use of, but that the Anglophone world refuses to adopt. And the less you make use of something, the more common it should be that you may have a problem with it, but that is secondary. So, do stop flogging your own victimisation horse.

I used the 24 and 12 clocks, although I do tend to favour the 24 hour clock. It is easier to use than the 12 hour one.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

I use the 24 hour clock all the time, mainly because I'm a pilot and in the aviation community, everything is 24 hours and GMT. So, you better damn well get used to it lol.

Are you seriously this bad at reading that you have to make things up in your head instead of reading what was written?

The Anglophone/Non-anglophone bits are there mostly to see whether my hunch that the 24-hour clock is yet one more thing most of the rest of the world makes use of, but that the Anglophone world refuses to adopt. And the less you make use of something, the more common it should be that you may have a problem with it, but that is secondary. So, do stop flogging your own victimisation horse.

So in other words, that is what you meant. Get off your high horse.

So in other words, that is what you meant. Get off your high horse.

Aww, I was wondering when the persecution complex poster child would show up. Hello! Nice to see you cling to your cause célèbre still. *hands you a whip to better chastise yourself with*

Unfortunately, where the 12-hour clock is the norm, kids in school can't help having that system inculcated into their minds. I was one of them. Had I been given the choice, I'd have chosen to number each of the 24 hours independently. That not being the case here, I had to learn to subtract until it became habit, long after the age of easy habituation.

What? You used to have to learn how to subtract?

I didn't understand that in the OP either, I just look at the clock and know what the time so if it says 20:05 I know it is 8:05pm.

But no I don't have a problem with either and I am an Anglophone.

Now Fris you say unlike the rest of the world now Anglophones aren't just America and the UK but other English speaking countries where they have adopted a lot of other measures unlike these two countries.

Unless I'm trying to annoy her.

Hehe.

I always use the 24h clock. Having spent most of my adult life either in the military or in Europe (or both) I had to. I don't have to do math in my head, when someone says 17h00 I know exactly what is meant by that. In fact, there are times when I have to remember what exactly that is in the 12h clock.

Aww, I was wondering when the persecution complex poster child would show up. Hello! Nice to see you cling to your cause célèbre still. *hands you a whip to better chastise yourself with*

And yet, you still refuse to deny it. Instead, you take cheap shots at those who disagree with you. I should've known. Through such insults, you expose your own faults, not the faults of others.

What's important is remembering that it's five o'clock somewhere.

It is indeed 1700 somewhere.

Truck dispatcher, we use military time to avoid trucks being either 12 hours early or 12 hours late.

Are you seriously trying to posit a possibility that 'anglophones' are less likely to be able to read a 24 hour clock?

In my experience this has been so. I assume it is based on unfamiliarity through socialisation, i.e. we are all educated to use the 12 hour clock. Due to my weird multicultural upbringing, I was also educated to use the 24 hour clock in other languages, so I have a particular vatage point on the whole thing.

I would also like to point out that those who use the 24 hour clock all the time never subtract. That would be like translating into a language you understand less perfectly.

In answer to the OP, yes. There is that added step of having to subtract and thus convert. Kind of like how there's the added step in my mind of having to convert from/to meters and kilograms to feet and pounds. It's not a major problem, but enough of a minor inconvenience to make me rather not have to do it.

What? You used to have to learn how to subtract?

I didn't understand that in the OP either, I just look at the clock and know what the time so if it says 20:05 I know it is 8:05pm.

Right, but you don't just 'know' it through magical powers, you know it because you subtracted 12 from 20 or otherwise performed some sort of mental task to 'translate.' Perhaps automatically, I guess you weren't even aware of it.

The Anglophone/Non-anglophone bits are there mostly to see whether my hunch that the 24-hour clock is yet one more thing most of the rest of the world makes use of, but that the Anglophone world refuses to adopt. And the less you make use of something, the more common it should be that you may have a problem with it, but that is secondary. So, do stop flogging your own victimisation horse.
You still use 24-hour? I thought everyone had moved on to base-ten time, it's so much easier. Hm, well, I guess you'll catch up eventually.

You still use 24-hour? I thought everyone had moved on to base-ten time, it's so much easier. Hm, well, I guess you'll catch up eventually.

Second
Decasecond
Kilosecond
Megasecond
Gigasecond


Why not.

You still use 24-hour? I thought everyone had moved on to base-ten time, it's so much easier. Hm, well, I guess you'll catch up eventually.

The scary thing is, there actually IS a base ten clock. I just got through having to translate from that into something readable for my lab work.

Also, replied to your TG.

I just say that it is 17, not 1700 or seventeenhundred hours.
I always use the 24 h clock, and i don't like those 12 hour ones, don't know why, i just don't.

The scary thing is, there actually IS a base ten clock. I just got through having to translate from that into something readable for my lab work.

Also, replied to your TG.

How does it fit with normal time? Do you say there are ten hours in every day and work down, or put a hundred seconds in a minute and work up?

My dad would know it easily enough. But he worked at a Miltary base and 24 hour clock timing is essential. However, it seems to me that unless you're in the miltary, at least in the US. People in the US aren't going to know how to use the 24-hour clock. The 24 hour clock isn't drilled into people in the US. I had troubles with it when I studied abroad and it took me a good five minutes to figure out that 18:30 was 6:30 PM.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?As a non-Anglophone Anglophone, I have no issues with the 24-hour clock.

I prefer to use the 12-hour clock so I don't sound like an army fanboy.

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

Nope. The opposite even - I can never remember if AM or PM is afternoon when I see those times written down. 24h notation is simply easier, more practical with less possibilities of confusion.

We use a 24 hour clock in our family. It hasn't caused any problems, our children are quite aware of what time it is. They are also able to subtract 12 nearly instantaneously, while most idiots are not.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

I got used to using Zulu time in the military (Greenwich time, in a 24 hour format). It saves explaining "what time do you mean?" when talking with people across time zones.

I have generally experienced in the UK (at least at my Uni) is that when people talk or arrange things informally they use a 12 hour clock but if you time-table/set up a meeting etc you use a 24-hour clock (for precision) and I don't know anyone who isn't quite capable of swapping as necessary.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

Well you know some people do have problems with the maths.

I'm comfortable with both, having friends in different time-zones and who use the 24 hr clock. When coordinating times, I use mt (my time) and yt (your time) and the time I generally give is either in both, or just yt. :p

Well you know some people do have problems with the maths.

I do love Fass' implied statement that too many people are dolts compared to his mighty intellect, which can calculate the 24 hour clock...

I do love Fass' implied statement that too many people are dolts compared to his mighty intellect, which can calculate the 24 hour clock...It's not his statement, though. It's implied that it's someone else that said it.

How does it fit with normal time? Do you say there are ten hours in every day and work down, or put a hundred seconds in a minute and work up?

Everything's done in decimal relative to local midnight. So 15 minutes past midnight is 0.25, while an hour and fifteen minutes past midnight is 1.25.

Zulu time (Greenwich time, in a 24 hour format).

I always wondered what the hell that was.

*Can go back to watching JAG in peace*

I always wondered what the hell that was.

*Can go back to watching JAG in peace*

Just another word the military made up...

I prefer to use the 12-hour clock so I don't sound like an army fanboy.

There ya go.

I use the 12 hour clock because that's what everyone else uses around me. I could stomp my foot in the ground and make some 'principled' stand "No no, we should use the 24 hour clock because it's more enlightened!" But I'd pretty much then look like a tool, 'cause I'd be one. If I was somewhere were they used a 24 hour clock, that's what I'd use, but I'm not, so I don't. Don't feel even a little bad about it, either. Sorry.

Everything's done in decimal relative to local midnight. So 15 minutes past midnight is 0.25, while an hour and fifteen minutes past midnight is 1.25.

That makes sense. Does that mean an hour, fifteen minutes, and thirty seconds after midnight is 1.258333...?

Its really not hard to do either. I prefer the 24 hour clock.

I do love Fass' implied statement that too many people are dolts compared to his mighty intellect, which can calculate the 24 hour clock...

I would be impressed by the elasticity of your sphincter to allow you to pull something like that past it, but alas, I have seen far more intriguing things come that way in others, so you leave me unaffected yet again. :\

That makes sense. Does that mean an hour, fifteen minutes, and thirty seconds after midnight is 1.258333...?

Yup.

It can be a little tricky at times. I'm a student, and have been known to wake up a substantial time in the afternoon. In a half-awake state, working out whether 15:00 is 3PM or 5PM can take a few moments. But after about five minutes of being awake it isn't an issue for me.

Just another word the military made up...
The Zulu is for zero, aye?

The Zulu is for zero, aye?

You may be correct; I'm not sure.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

No. In fact, I get rather irritated now that I have to deal with the conversions. If we all just switched over already, there'd be no problems at all.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

my choice isn't on the poll.

so I'll state it here.

"No problem. I'll use whatever's there."

And yet, you still refuse to deny it. Instead, you take cheap shots at those who disagree with you. I should've known. Through such insults, you expose your own faults, not the faults of others.

Ah, pipe down. Fass just likes to use NSG to vent. He's just playing with you. :p

I perfer the 24 hour clock in writing and the 12 hour clock in speech.

Are you seriously this bad at reading that you have to make things up in your head instead of reading what was written?

The Anglophone/Non-anglophone bits are there mostly to see whether my hunch that the 24-hour clock is yet one more thing most of the rest of the world makes use of, but that the Anglophone world refuses to adopt.

That's still pretty much the same, that still makes them less likely to be able to read it, and it's still an absolutely ludicrous idea.

In my experience this has been so. I assume it is based on unfamiliarity through socialisation, i.e. we are all educated to use the 12 hour clock. Due to my weird multicultural upbringing, I was also educated to use the 24 hour clock in other languages, so I have a particular vatage point on the whole thing.

I would also like to point out that those who use the 24 hour clock all the time never subtract. That would be like translating into a language you understand less perfectly.

At least in the UK, the mother of the anglophone world, I do not know a single person who cannot understand a 24 hour clock. It's everywhere, on every bus stop, train times, flight times etc...

Japan does a hodgepodge mix of both 12 and 24 hour times with government and transportation using the 24 clock and everyone else doing whatever they feel like. I keep digital clocks set on both 24 and 12 hour display times as well as a clock set to PST.

I can use both systems with no problem.

I prefer the 12 hour clock as opposed to military time, but I use whatever is being used depending on where I am at the time. So, when I'm in America I use the 12 hour clock and when I'm in Central Europe I use military time.

In my head, it's an anglo thing.

When I think in another language than english, I use the 24 hour clock, and when dealing with anglos, I tend to use the 12 hour clock.

Unless I'm trying to annoy her.

I'm more annoyed that you just characterised me as an anglo. Concha de tu madre, atim mitasa!

I do love Fass' implied statement that too many people are dolts compared to his mighty intellect, which can calculate the 24 hour clock...

That's because you missed the point. As GoG pointed out, when you use the 24 hour clock regularly, you don't 'translate' it back into the 12 hour clock in order to know what time it is. It's not ABOUT math, at all.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

I am not completely comfortable with it, though I voted option 2 'no problems' because I rarely have to do conscious math to convert to 12-hour format.

Facepalm all you like (you're better looking that way :tongue:) but the fact is that in my country most times are given in AM/PM 12 hour format, that's what I learnt as a kid, and I need to know which half of the day is AM and which PM. Insisting that people give times in 24 hour format would be a massive waste of my time, make me look like an arrogant prick, and still be no help whatsoever when a time is written down somewhere.

Consider. I go to the train station. There is a big clock in 24 hour format, but when I consult the timetable it is in 12 hour format. I need to convert one to the other ... so of course I convert from the less-commonly used to the more-commonly used.

I would prefer if everyone in my country used one format. I would prefer 24-hour over 12-hour, but that's less important. It gets easier with practice and it's no big deal.

In Oz we generally use the am/pm system.

In a previous job I worked for a 24 hour company where instructions were given to hundreds of technicians around the country. Sub-contractors were on strict schedules. Using a 24 hour clock was much easier and clearer so people were happy to use it.

What intrigues me is the weird date system used by Americans. It's just not logical. One could argue for day-month-year or otherwise year-month-day (good for sorting on computers) but you guys do neither.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

No particular problems but I deal with a variety of systems and people and then to use the 12 hour clock but thats more because of use then any particular problem with either system

What intrigues me is the weird date system used by Americans. It's just not logical. One could argue for day-month-year or otherwise year-month-day (good for sorting on computers) but you guys do neither.
It's what we've learned and have used for quite some time, so to us it seems quite logical to say November 4, 2008. Of course, when dealing with forms, it's usually Year-Month-Day for every date EXCEPT the signature line.

But it all comes down to what you're used to. It took me a while to get used to the Japanese reign name system for years and while I usually have a general idea of what decade such and such covers, (Like Taisho covers from 1912 to 1926) converting to the Christian year is difficult for me in anything but Heisei.

My wife and mother-in-law have no issues in doing so though.

In Oz we generally use the am/pm system.

In a previous job I worked for a 24 hour company where instructions were given to hundreds of technicians around the country. Sub-contractors were on strict schedules. Using a 24 hour clock was much easier and clearer so people were happy to use it.

What intrigues me is the weird date system used by Americans. It's just not logical. One could argue for day-month-year or otherwise year-month-day (good for sorting on computers) but you guys do neither.

Yeah, we're weird like that.

But it's what we're used to. Like with anyone else, it makes any other way of doing things--even ways much more logical--seem odd and wonky.

At home when I'm looking at my clock on military time I have no problem, but when I'm at work and someone asks me the time and I look at my watch on military time.. I sometimes get it wrong. So .. yes and no?

Obviously I haven't learned it. I don't see the clock in 24 , but in 12.. Unless I stop using 12's and only use 24's I won't change my thinking. Cause I'm all the way or no way... sadly =)

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

No, it does not. I don't see why it should bother anyone, really.

My time in Asia has shown me that they use a 12 hour clock. Asians out number Europeans and pretty much anyone else. therefore they win 12 hour clock remains.

Never had a problem with it.

You still use 24-hour? I thought everyone had moved on to base-ten time, it's so much easier. Hm, well, I guess you'll catch up eventually.

Nah, decimal time is old, old school...

Egypt

The ancient Egyptians divided each daily period of sunlight into ten hours, marked by sundials. They had an additional hour of twilight before sunrise and one after sunset, for a total of twelve hours of light. The night was also divided into twelve hours, marked by certain stars, for a total of 24 hours. The use of sundials to tell time became common in many places, which resulted in hours being variable in length during the year, becoming longer in the summer and shorter in the winter. The invention of mechanical clocks in the Middle Ages, which ran at fairly constant rates, finally led to hours of equal length.
http://decimaltime.hynes.net/history.html

The ke (刻; pinyin: kè) is a traditional Chinese unit of decimal time lasting approximately a quarter of a western hour. Traditionally the ke divides a day into 100 equal intervals[1] of 14.4 minutes (14 m 24 s). The ke is equivalent to the centiday (cd), a non-SI unit accepted for use with SI. Ke literally means 'to etch' or 'to cut', and it is part of the noun Kedu which refers to etched-on markings on measuring devices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ke_(unit)

How does it fit with normal time? Do you say there are ten hours in every day and work down, or put a hundred seconds in a minute and work up?

Depends on the system, it's been tried several different ways.

Everything's done in decimal relative to local midnight. So 15 minutes past midnight is 0.25, while an hour and fifteen minutes past midnight is 1.25.

Depends on the exact system and what time unit it uses as the base. Some systems are based on the day, others on the hour. Day based systems do away with the hour entierly (it's November 4.725 at the moment, for example) or replace it with a new unit (French Revolutionary Time, for example).

http://www.decimaltime.hynes.net/proposals.html

One cool system was based on seconds. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Accelerando_Technical_Companion#Units_of_time

I always wondered what the hell that was.

*Can go back to watching JAG in peace*

"Zulu" being the NATO phonetic alphabet.

Here're the other NATO time zones: http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/military/

You may be correct; I'm not sure.

Zulu = zero meridian, home of course to GMT.

Japan does a hodgepodge mix of both 12 and 24 hour times with government and transportation using the 24 clock and everyone else doing whatever they feel like. I keep digital clocks set on both 24 and 12 hour display times as well as a clock set to PST.

Indeed so. The only time the two seem to conflict is when I have to explain that the Anglophone world generally doesn't do 24 hour time. Some students have a hard time wrapping their mind around that.

It's what we've learned and have used for quite some time, so to us it seems quite logical to say November 4, 2008. Of course, when dealing with forms, it's usually Year-Month-Day for every date EXCEPT the signature line.

But it all comes down to what you're used to.

Indeed so, which is why the decimal time proposals never really caught on.

It took me a while to get used to the Japanese reign name system for years and while I usually have a general idea of what decade such and such covers, (Like Taisho covers from 1912 to 1926) converting to the Christian year is difficult for me in anything but Heisei.

My wife and mother-in-law have no issues in doing so though.

Ahhhggggggg!!!!!!!!

The Zulu is for zero, aye?

Zero meridian, i think. Which makes the UK dead powerful because it manufactures all the world's time.

Regardless, the twelve/24 hr system should be abandoned. People should use bells and watches.

Let me mention two things that really, really bug me. The first thing would be solved by 24 hour time.

1. People who use 12am/pm for midday or midnight. Buggered if I know which time of day they mean. "am" stands for ante meridian (before noon) and "pm" stands for post meridian (after noon). Noon is noon. It cannot be before noon or after noon. Arguably midnight could be 12 pm but it's certainly not 12am, which I see everywhere.

2. This may be an Australian oddity but I keep encountering situations where people say "next (insert day)" when they don't mean the next occurence of that day. For example, it's Tuesday here in Oz. Many people now, when they refer to next Friday mean ten days time. How? If you're in a bank queue and the teller says, "next", does the second person in the queue go up for service? I sometimes try this test. I ask someone when is next Friday - they say in ten days. Next Saturday? - 11 days. Next Sunday? - 12 days (but they're beginning to become doubtful; some will say 5 days). Next Monday - usually 6 days. Next Tuesday - always one week. As far as I can tell it is age related. I began to notice the confusion about 15 years ago. People over about 35 tend to use the word "next" more correctly.

Thanks for letting me mention these things that bug me.

I don't normally use a 24 hour clock. But I don't have problems telling time on one. It's quite logical and self-explanatory, really. Though I do see a 24 hour clock when I post on NSG, as that's how post times are listed.

Also, I am an anglophone, as I speak a dialect of English as my native language.

It is indeed 1700 somewhere.

Truck dispatcher, we use military time to avoid trucks being either 12 hours early or 12 hours late.

1700 AD?
Well... Could be...

Noon is noon. It cannot be before noon or after noon. Arguably midnight could be 12 pm but it's certainly not 12am, which I see everywhere.

"Noon" and "midnight" are points. It is neither AM nor PM for a single moment, but as soon as any time at all passes--even a fraction of a second--that changes.

Think of "12:00 midnight" as "0:00 AM" and it might help.

2. This may be an Australian oddity but I keep encountering situations where people say "next (insert day)" when they don't mean the next occurence of that day. For example, it's Tuesday here in Oz. Many people now, when they refer to next Friday mean ten days time. How? If you're in a bank queue and the teller says, "next", does the second person in the queue go up for service? I sometimes try this test. I ask someone when is next Friday - they say in ten days. Next Saturday? - 11 days. Next Sunday? - 12 days (but they're beginning to become doubtful; some will say 5 days). Next Monday - usually 6 days. Next Tuesday - always one week. As far as I can tell it is age related. I began to notice the confusion about 15 years ago. People over about 35 tend to use the word "next" more correctly.

Thanks for letting me mention these things that bug me.

What a fantastic point.. I've never even thought about that. I've actually been using 'Friday week' to refer to the Friday in nine days time recently. I guess this is a bit more correct. But for a long time I did say 'next Friday'.. Interesting though!

My computers are always on 24 hour time, so I could work with it. But since everyone I know uses 12 hour time there's no need.

I read both with no problem, but I prefer 24 hour time.

2. This may be an Australian oddity but I keep encountering situations where people say "next (insert day)" when they don't mean the next occurence of that day. For example, it's Tuesday here in Oz. Many people now, when they refer to next Friday mean ten days time.

Something similar can be found in the Netherlands, but that is because "next" can either be translated as "aanstaande" = the first occurrence of the named day in the future, or "volgende" = the first occurrence after the "aanstaande" occurrence. But some people use "volgende" to indicate the "aanstaande", which means you always have to ask which one they mean, when someone uses "volgende".

There are no problems whatsoever with the 24-hour clock, except for being inconvenient for a *short* while until you adapt.

It's the military standard for a reason.

There's no reason whatsoever for using the AM/PM clock. And there have been times when I had to go outside to see if it's 5AM or 5PM.

2. This may be an Australian oddity but I keep encountering situations where people say "next (insert day)" when they don't mean the next occurence of that day. For example, it's Tuesday here in Oz. Many people now, when they refer to next Friday mean ten days time. How? If you're in a bank queue and the teller says, "next", does the second person in the queue go up for service? I sometimes try this test. I ask someone when is next Friday - they say in ten days. Next Saturday? - 11 days. Next Sunday? - 12 days (but they're beginning to become doubtful; some will say 5 days). Next Monday - usually 6 days. Next Tuesday - always one week. As far as I can tell it is age related. I began to notice the confusion about 15 years ago. People over about 35 tend to use the word "next" more correctly.

That's how it's used where I'm from. If it's Tuesday and you're referring to the upcoming Friday you refer to it as "Friday", example "I'm going to the dentist on Friday". The Friday after that is "next Friday, example "I'm going to the dentist next Friday" and the Friday after that is "the Friday after next", example "I'm going to the dentist the Friday after next".

I love the 24 hour clock, it's simpler to me. I don't know if it's a regional thing where I live or if it's country wide, we use the 24 hour clock here but we talk about it in 12 hour segments minus the a.m. and p.m.. I can, however, still relate time in a 24 hour format and I am understood.

Communicating time in Norwegian is a bit idiosyncratic to me, but it wasn't nearly the problem I imagined it would be. I was used to it within a day. The first time I learned that 11:25 was five til half twelve (fem på halv tolv) I was a bit bemused.

2. This may be an Australian oddity but I keep encountering situations where people say "next (insert day)" when they don't mean the next occurence of that day. For example, it's Tuesday here in Oz. Many people now, when they refer to next Friday mean ten days time. How? If you're in a bank queue and the teller says, "next", does the second person in the queue go up for service? I sometimes try this test. I ask someone when is next Friday - they say in ten days. Next Saturday? - 11 days. Next Sunday? - 12 days (but they're beginning to become doubtful; some will say 5 days). Next Monday - usually 6 days. Next Tuesday - always one week. As far as I can tell it is age related. I began to notice the confusion about 15 years ago. People over about 35 tend to use the word "next" more correctly.


I have been taught that this is a general English language thing, but it always confuses me... when communicating an appointment with a native English-speaking person, I try to avoid "next" as much as possible. And if they use it, I'll ask which date they mean...

It's even weirder than British folks using "half five" when they mean to say half past five. In Dutch and German, the equivalent of "half five" means half to five (i.e. 4.30), as it should...

The Anglophone/Non-anglophone bits are there mostly to see whether my hunch that the 24-hour clock is yet one more thing most of the rest of the world makes use of, but that the Anglophone world refuses to adopt. And the less you make use of something, the more common it should be that you may have a problem with it, but that is secondary. So, do stop flogging your own victimisation horse.

Seems the secondary hypothesis is wrong.

No problem. There's 24 hours in a day. Not that hard.

I have, however, encountered problems when people were supposed to meet between 7ish and 10ish - and either showed up way too early or way too late. *shakes fist*

Doesn't happen with 7ish vs. 19ish.

"Noon" and "midnight" are points. It is neither AM nor PM for a single moment, but as soon as any time at all passes--even a fraction of a second--that changes.

Think of "12:00 midnight" as "0:00 AM" and it might help.

Or think of 12 AM as one minute before 12:01 AM, which clearly is in the early morning. The hour digits are what makes midnight "AM."

Still just a mnemonic, it doesn't actually make sense.

I was perusing a computer-related forum where someone asked a question about setting his DE's clock to display a 12-hour clock instead of a 24-hour one. His reason for wanting the change?

"I don't want to have to do the math to know that 22:00 is 10 pm."

At which point I had to facepalm, while not being surprised at where his location field said he was from...

So, I wonder - does the 24-hour clock pose you similar problems?

Nope, I've been using 24 hour clock for over 20 years. It makes a lot more sense to me than the 12 hour clock.

I prefer the 24hr clock, it eliminates confusion.

Maybe this explains why Jack Bauer always seems so stressed - all that mental arithmetic.

I can never remember which halves of the day am and pm refer to. No amount of maths can make sense of that; so I prefer a 24-hour clock.

That's how it's used where I'm from. If it's Tuesday and you're referring to the upcoming Friday you refer to it as "Friday", example "I'm going to the dentist on Friday". The Friday after that is "next Friday, example "I'm going to the dentist next Friday" and the Friday after that is "the Friday after next", example "I'm going to the dentist the Friday after next".

I agree with this interpretation. It relies on context. "I'm going" is present tense, and then the mention of "Friday" (using the example of Tuesday from the quoted post) pushes the present into the immediate future.

This is hilarious. Not one vote says they have problems with using a 24-hour clock.

This is hilarious. Not one vote says they have problems with using a 24-hour clock.

*counts five*

This is hilarious. Not one vote says they have problems with using a 24-hour clock.

Except the five who have voted that they do have problems. But hey.

I can never remember which halves of the day am and pm refer to. No amount of maths can make sense of that; so I prefer a 24-hour clock.
I'm curious. Do you also have trouble differentiating between left and right, light and dark, up and down, and all the other binary definitions that have no obvious maths to them?




(Edit: lest someone think I am having an unprovoked dig at Damor...)

I am, honestly, curious. In this specific case it's easy to remember, so long as you know what the am/pm abbreviations stand for (although that might be considered elitist these days, if that mad anti-Latin thread from last week is anything to go by), but I know of people who do, genuinely, have trouble with some of the others. I have a good friend, for example, who simply cannot ever remember which is left and which is right, and it's something I find strangely fascinating ;)

*counts five*

They don't use it regularly. By that, I assumed they had problems with their own form of time.

This, in retrospect, may have been a faulty assumption.

Except the five who have voted that they do have problems. But hey.

See above.

I'm curious. Do you also have trouble differentiating between left and right, light and dark, up and down, and all the other binary definitions that have no obvious maths to them?




(Edit: lest someone think I am having an unprovoked dig at Damor...)

I am, honestly, curious. In this specific case it's easy to remember, so long as you know what the am/pm abbreviations stand for (although that might be considered elitist these days, if that mad anti-Latin thread from last week is anything to go by), but I know of people who do, genuinely, have trouble with some of the others. I have a good friend, for example, who simply cannot ever remember which is left and which is right, and it's something I find strangely fascinating ;)
Strangely, I had a hard time with left and right in high-school, but only in English. I knew my izquierda from my derecha no problem.

I'm curious. Do you also have trouble differentiating between left and right, light and dark, up and down, and all the other binary definitions that have no obvious maths to them?

Fuck yes. Left and right. Its so embarassing!

What's so hard? 1pm is 13:00hrs. 10pm is 22:00hrs. Anglophones in the military and airline industries are able to use it without trouble; it's all what you're used to, I suppose.

I'm curious. Do you also have trouble differentiating between left and right, light and dark, up and down, and all the other binary definitions that have no obvious maths to them?Well, to me the distinctions up/down, light/dark, are not much different from distinctions like table/chair, keyboard/monitor. They have their own characteristics.
On the other hand, left/right, and am/pm are (to me) almost defined recursively in terms of eachother; left is not right, right is not left. So it may take me a second or two to think, "which hand was the one I write with?" And I haven't even that for am/pm; and thinking the 'a' is for 'after' doesn't particularly help.

(Edit: lest someone think I am having an unprovoked dig at Damor...)

I am, honestly, curious. In this specific case it's easy to remember, so long as you know what the am/pm abbreviations stand forYes, well, I don't know, unfortunately. And I haven't come across the am/pm system much in my life (well, aside from online where times are pretty much meaningless because of time-zones), so it has not really been an urgent problem either.

(although that might be considered elitist these days, if that mad anti-Latin thread from last week is anything to go by), but I know of people who do, genuinely, have trouble with some of the others. I have a good friend, for example, who simply cannot ever remember which is left and which is right, and it's something I find strangely fascinating ;)Well, if you once get something in your brain the wrong way round, you're pretty much screwed. You just keep second guessing which is which because you remember always getting it wrong.