NationStates Jolt Archive

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.

no hun, its the way the US system works.

never underestimate the power of the media.

No.

I can drag out at least 30 Trolls who can resist teh ebil liberal medias so its obviously not that hard.

More on topic though when does it stop being editorial and start being propaganda anyway?

never underestimate the power of the media.

unfortunately most overestimate it....:p

No.

I can drag out at least 30 Trolls who can resist teh ebil liberal medias so its obviously not that hard.

More on topic though when does it stop being editorial and start being propaganda anyway?
when its the other party getting the endorsements.

Half of the general public can't even be persuaded to go vote in the first place, let alone be forced to vote for a certain candidate.

That's a pretty idiotic question.

Is this what you have been reduced to?

:rolleyes:

This is what conservatives have come to.

"He cant be winning and being endorsed because hes the best choice, those damn liberals must be making everyone vote for him! Yeah, yeah, thats it! If they really had a choice, they would vote for our guy!"

God, and to think, I have four years of this desperation to look foward to. Oh man, this will be the best four years of my life.

This is what conservatives have come to.

"He cant be winning and being endorsed because hes the best choice, those damn liberals must be making everyone vote for him! Yeah, yeah, thats it! If they really had a choice, they would vote for our guy!"

God, and to think, I have four years of this desperation to look foward to. Oh man, this will be the best four years of my life.
the republicans are having a meeting in 2 weeks to figure out what to do about the 2010 elections. (mccain isnt invited) the fun is going to start right away!

This is what conservatives have come to.

"He cant be winning and being endorsed because hes the best choice, those damn liberals must be making everyone vote for him! Yeah, yeah, thats it! If they really had a choice, they would vote for our guy!"

God, and to think, I have four years of this desperation to look foward to. Oh man, this will be the best four years of my life.

From a democratic stance it is....

"People are scared of the "Bush Dynasty" and the "no change" policies of him. So we have nominated (or forced) onto the scene a man who promotes "Change through Fear" policies about America because they have no where to look in this crisis. So everyone will come out and vote for him because he is of another race, a new face in politics, as well as being a total radical. So no one wants to vote for the other guy because that would be racists."

Please explain how this is going to be "the best 4 years of your life"...

From a democratic stance it is....

"People are scared of the "Bush Dynasty" and the "no change" policies of him. So we have nominated (or forced) onto the scene a man who promotes "Change through Fear" policies about America because they have no where to look in this crisis. So everyone will come out and vote for him because he is of another race, a new face in politics, as well as being a total radical. So no one wants to vote for the other guy because that would be racists."

People are voting for him because they like what he is selling, a new direction.

Please explain how this is going to be "the best 4 years of your life"...

1. I will enjoy having a leader who I agree with on 90% of issues.
2. I will relish the tears of rage and sadness from the far right. I intend to drink them like wine.

Half of the general public can't even be persuaded to go vote in the first place, let alone be forced to vote for a certain candidate.

That's a pretty idiotic question.

If it's so idiotic, then why did you bother to answer it?

This is what conservatives have come to.

I'm NOT a conservative, it's just a question.

More on topic though when does it stop being editorial and start being propaganda anyway?

At least I got one good post. I consider it propaganda when it's biased reporting, which I think is how reporting should be done. Now before you start flaming, yes, I know, it'll never happen. BUT, what ever happened to freedom of press? I don't see how media can be so biased.

People are voting for him because they like what he is selling, a new direction.



1. I will enjoy having a leader who I agree with on 90% of issues.
2. I will relish the tears of rage and sadness from the far right. I intend to drink them like wine.

Alright now see, there's a difference. You're pretty educated and I'm assuming you like to go out of your way to research stuff. I'm talking about the average person that relies on TV and radio for their news. There's a couple times a day in the past week that I hear so and so endorsed Obama. You can't tell me that's not cramming a candidate down your throat.

From a democratic stance it is....

"People are scared of the "Bush Dynasty" and the "no change" policies of him. So we have nominated (or forced) onto the scene a man who promotes "Change through Fear" policies about America because they have no where to look in this crisis. So everyone will come out and vote for him because he is of another race, a new face in politics, as well as being a total radical. So no one wants to vote for the other guy because that would be racists."

Please explain how this is going to be "the best 4 years of your life"...
when did HOPE become FEAR?

Alright now see, there's a difference. You're pretty educated and I'm assuming you like to go out of your way to research stuff. I'm talking about the average person that relies on TV and radio for their news. There's a couple times a day in the past week that I hear so and so endorsed Obama. You can't tell me that's not cramming a candidate down your throat.
all endorsers are independent actors. they are not taking orders from obama.

if everyone (and its not everyone) "in the know" comes to the same decision, has anything but reality forced it on them?

when did HOPE become FEAR?

Since a black guy started saying it.

People are voting for him because they like what he is selling, a new direction..

Yeah, the wrong direction....and he is selling it, but people are starting to not buy it....


1. I will enjoy having a leader who I agree with on 90% of issues.
2. I will relish the tears of rage and sadness from the far right. I intend to drink them like wine.

1. Change that to 100% of the issues with democrats.
2. Rage and sadness? Is this what the democrats are reduced to? Shure, Republicans arn't saints, they probably have done somethings that are not very popular with people at all. But you have to admit that far left Democrats have gone insane....

When did persuasion become "force" and information become "propaganda"?

Was this about the time McCain/Palin starting circling the bowl?

At least I got one good post. I consider it propaganda when it's unbiased reporting, which I think is how reporting should be done. Now before you start flaming, yes, I know, it'll never happen. BUT, what ever happened to freedom of press? I don't see how media can be so biased.

huh? UNBIASED Media is Propaganda?

Probably a typo, right?

all endorsers are independent actors. they are not taking orders from obama.

if everyone (and its not everyone) "in the know" comes to the same decision, has anything but reality forced it on them?

Why should the media even bother reporting it though?

huh? UNBIASED Media is Propaganda?

Probably a typo, right?

Yeah, sorry, started drinking early;)

when did HOPE become FEAR?

When people started to look at what was going on...they FEARED where America was going...

Why should the media even bother reporting it though?

Because it's their fucking job.

But you have to admit that far left Democrats have gone insane....

I'm not sure WTF you mean by "far left Democrats," but, regardless, no. I don't have to admit any such thing.

This very thread, however, seems to evidence the fear and paranoia running rampant on the other side of the partisan/ideological spectrum.

When people started to look at what was going on...they FEARED where America was going...

Thus the logical course is obviously to return the party they so fear into office :confused:

Might be time to dig out Richard Hofstadter's seminal essay, "The Paranoid Style in American Politics".

Why should the media even bother reporting it though?
its news.

Because it's their fucking job.

Do YOU, just you, an educated person, really care that a celebrity endorses a candidate? Do you think the media should waste it's time reporting that? Do you think that it's utterly important that the world knows this bit of information?

I don't either, and that's mainly where my problem lies. Now what about those people that are easily influenced, and follow celebrity gossip and all that other crap? Don't you think that an uneducated person, that really doesn't care about politics and votes just because; don't you think that the fact that these famous people endorse Obama could change their mind?

Thus the logical course is obviously to return the party they so fear into office :confused:

Then the logical course is to also look at what the other party has to offer, and see if they are any better...

Might be time to dig out Richard Hofstadter's seminal essay, "The Paranoid Style in American Politics".

:)

I'm not sure WTF you mean by "far left Democrats," but, regardless, no. I don't have to admit any such thing.

This very thread, however, seems to evidence the fear and paranoia running rampant on the other side of the partisan/ideological spectrum.

As if fear never did run rampant on both sides, it has in the past, and no doubt will in the future...that I agree with you on. As for far left democrats...I ment to say "extremely liberal" or almost radical (far left) Far right is very conservative, and middle are moderates.

When people started to look at what was going on...they FEARED where America was going...
ohhhh you must be referring to the 2000 people who show up at a mccain rally to listen to scare speeches not the 100,000 people who show up at an obama rally to listen to a positive message about possibilities of the future.

Do YOU, just you, an educated person, really care that a celebrity endorses a candidate? Do you think the media should waste it's time reporting that? Do you think that it's utterly important that the world knows this bit of information?

I don't either, and that's mainly where my problem lies. Now what about those people that are easily influenced, and follow celebrity gossip and all that other crap? Don't you think that an uneducated person, that really doesn't care about politics and votes just because; don't you think that the fact that these famous people endorse Obama could change their mind?
i dont remember any reporting of celebrities endorsing obama (in the news section of whatever media outlet) i have noticed very many endorsements by important people and groups who have a very well informed opinion that should be taken into consideration by anyone who is still undecided.

ohhhh you must be referring to the 2000 people who show up at a mccain rally to listen to scare speeches not the 100,000 people who show up at an obama rally to listen to a positive message about possibilities of the future.

A single event, and McCains "2000" persons ralley wound up in a small town that proportionaly had more people come than in the St. Louis ralley of Obama.

A single event, and McCains "2000" persons ralley wound up in a small town that proportionaly had more people come than in the St. Louis ralley of Obama.
yeah too bad no one from outside of town could be bothered to attend eh?

A single event, and McCains "2000" persons ralley wound up in a small town that proportionaly had more people come than in the St. Louis ralley of Obama.
or to put it into perspective

same town, same day, albuquerque new mexico a week ago...

mccain 1400 attendees

obama 45,000

At least I got one good post. I consider it propaganda when it's biased reporting, which I think is how reporting should be done. Now before you start flaming, yes, I know, it'll never happen. BUT, what ever happened to freedom of press? I don't see how media can be so biased.

An 'editorial' - is an opinion piece. It's allowed to be biased.

On the other hand, when someone like Colin Powell endorses Obama, that's 'news'... and there's nothing 'biased' about reporting it.

or to put it into perspective

same town, same day, albuquerque new mexico a week ago...

mccain 1400 attendees

obama 45,000

Owned.

There's an important difference between marketing and propaganda. So many people are saying Obama is the canine's testicles because they want you to vote for him, just like how people will say some brand of something is the dog's bollocks so you'll buy it.

Propaganda, as I understand the word, has implications of malicious intent, and dubious factual basis. Just look for a WW2 era depiction of a 'Jap'.

To make it a bit clearer:
Explaining why people should vote for Obama, in one's own opinion == marketing
Spreading chain emails claiming Obama is a muslim, and therefore one shouldn't vote for him == propaganda

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me. I also resent the fact that the media slants everything and people just sit there and take it. They even go out and quote what they hear without ever really thinking about it. Americans are becoming a bunch of sheep and the media is their shepherd unfortunately. It is time we wake up and stand up for the things we believe!!

or to put it into perspective

same town, same day, albuquerque new mexico a week ago...

mccain 1400 attendees

obama 45,000

Sorry for the late and slow response (computer network had a glitch...:$)

But here is another one too

Same town, same day last thursday, Green Bay Wisconsin

Obama 5,000

Palin (no not McCain) 11,000

Owned.

Unfortunately, yeah I was.... :)

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me. I also resent the fact that the media slants everything and people just sit there and take it. They even go out and quote what they hear without ever really thinking about it. Americans are becoming a bunch of sheep and the media is their shepherd unfortunately. It is time we wake up and stand up for the things we believe!!

I wouldn't say that the media slants everything, but it is becoming biased on both sides of the spectrum.

Ah, nothing like the wail of despair from the anti-intellectuals who had 8 whole years to run this nation into the ground and make it something right out of The Handmaid's Tale. It sounds like victory.

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me. I also resent the fact that the media slants everything and people just sit there and take it. They even go out and quote what they hear without ever really thinking about it. Americans are becoming a bunch of sheep and the media is their shepherd unfortunately. It is time we wake up and stand up for the things we believe!!

Thank you for putting your crazy on display in your very first post, so I never have to read another again.

Ah, nothing like the wail of despair from the anti-intellectuals who had 8 whole years to run this nation into the ground and make it something right out of The Handmaid's Tale. It sounds like victory.

Good choice of a book, but I wouldn't order the Victory banner just yet or the Greek Columns...

Good choice of a book, but I wouldn't order the Victory banner just yet or the Greek Columns...

but I just signed for those :p

Sorry for the late and slow response (computer network had a glitch...:$)

But here is another one too

Same town, same day last thursday, Green Bay Wisconsin

Obama 5,000

Palin (no not McCain) 11,000



Unfortunately, yeah I was.... :)



I wouldn't say that the media slants everything, but it is becoming biased on both sides of the spectrum.
no problem. the only trouble with delayed response is that i might not notice it.

palin has gotten some damned good crowds.

when mccain goes by himself, not so much.

weird.

if i were mccain 2 things would really piss me off

1) that its always obama contrasted to palin as if mccain didnt exist

2) everyone keeps imagining him dead.

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me. I also resent the fact that the media slants everything and people just sit there and take it. They even go out and quote what they hear without ever really thinking about it. Americans are becoming a bunch of sheep and the media is their shepherd unfortunately. It is time we wake up and stand up for the things we believe!!

People 'just sit there and take it' because if the media does put a slant on things, it's a slant that their viewers will agree with. If right wingers suddenly stopped watching FOX and left wingers started to you can bet your right arm that FOX will suddenly develop a left wing bias.

Contrary to what some people seem to believe, the media is not out to rule over the minds of Americans, and shape their opinions on everything from presidential candidates to fashion. The media is out to make money. Just like every other business.

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me. I also resent the fact that the media slants everything and people just sit there and take it. They even go out and quote what they hear without ever really thinking about it. Americans are becoming a bunch of sheep and the media is their shepherd unfortunately. It is time we wake up and stand up for the things we believe!!
what do you believe in that makes obama so very scary?

Then the logical course is to also look at what the other party has to offer, and see if they are any better...
Which is exactly what the public are doing. They compared each side, and more of them are thinking that Obama is the better choice than McCain.

Sorry. Next time, try putting up a good candidate and running a competent campaign. That might get you somewhere.

no problem. the only trouble with delayed response is that i might not notice it.

palin has gotten some damned good crowds.

when mccain goes by himself, not so much.

Palin did pull in huge crowds. The only trouble is, many of them left her rallies convinced to vote for Obama.

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me.

Well, the next four years will be, for you, what the last eight years have been for the world, then.

Enjoy. ^_^

Well, the next four years will be, for you, what the last eight years have been for the world, then.

Enjoy. ^_^We've had twelve years of Bush.
America hasn't ended yet! I'm sure that we can endure another fifty or so idiots for president! :p

I'm sure that we can endure another fifty or so idiots for president! :p
You might. Not so sure the rest of the world would be as patient...

You might. Not so sure the rest of the world would be as patient...More like we just shrug and trudge on with our dull, boring lives. :)

More like we just shrug and trudge on with our dull, boring lives. :)
I'm not entirely so sure about that. It's not so much the morons and lunatics at the highest federal levels that I worry about. It's the wackos who ride the groundswell of political extremes into state level offices who worry me, not to mention the unelected nuts who get appointed to things like the Supreme Court and Justice Department positions.

Those people can interfere with my dull, boring life very directly, in terms of affecting my access to healthcare (abortion/contraception), the quality of schools (creationism/abstinence only), how well and fairly the law is enforced and whether I can get a fair hearing before a court. And even the ones we think don't matter so much, like the president, can fuck up my dull, boring life by instigating wars and removing controls against industrial pollution.

Frankly, I think the time for shrugging is over. It's not enough to change presidents. It is time to repudiate this whole to-the-right trend and get back to an even balance.

Frankly, I think the time for shrugging is over. It's not enough to change presidents. It is time to repudiate this whole to-the-right trend and get back to an even balance.If you're campaigning for a new right-wing party, you're in the wrong place. :p
But, regardless of that, I agree with you. Even though you took my light heartedness much too seriously.

I'm not entirely so sure about that. It's not so much the morons and lunatics at the highest federal levels that I worry about. It's the wackos who ride the groundswell of political extremes into state level offices who worry me, not to mention the unelected nuts who get appointed to things like the Supreme Court and Justice Department positions.

Those people can interfere with my dull, boring life very directly, in terms of affecting my access to healthcare (abortion/contraception), the quality of schools (creationism/abstinence only), how well and fairly the law is enforced and whether I can get a fair hearing before a court. And even the ones we think don't matter so much, like the president, can fuck up my dull, boring life by instigating wars and removing controls against industrial pollution.

Frankly, I think the time for shrugging is over. It's not enough to change presidents. It is time to repudiate this whole to-the-right trend and get back to an even balance.
id be OK (should mr mccain win *shudder*) with putting people into those jobs who were qualified and actually wanted to DO THE FREAKNG JOB.

bush has spent 8 years dismantling the various government agencies by appointing men and women who arent qualified and dont believe that the government should be doing this stuff.

If you're campaigning for a new right-wing party, you're in the wrong place. :p
But, regardless of that, I agree with you. Even though you took my light heartedness much too seriously.
Campaigning against one, more like.

I believe in the 1st Amendment enough to allow room for people I oppose on every possible point to be part of my country. But in charge of any part of it that matters? No, thanks.

id be OK (should mr mccain win *shudder*) with putting people into those jobs who were qualified and actually wanted to DO THE FREAKNG JOB.

bush has spent 8 years dismantling the various government agencies by appointing men and women who arent qualified and dont believe that the government should be doing this stuff.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant.

Yeah, the wrong direction....and he is selling it, but people are starting to not buy it....



1. Change that to 100% of the issues with democrats.
2. Rage and sadness? Is this what the democrats are reduced to? Shure, Republicans arn't saints, they probably have done somethings that are not very popular with people at all. But you have to admit that far left Democrats have gone insane....

Is it because they want gays to have the same rights as everyone else? Is it because they oppose abortion yet respect a women's right to have one in many cases? Is it because they don't like killing people? Is it because they believe we should have a government that actually does shit for its people? Is it because they believe we should actually pay for the debt we've accrued before the interests get higher than we can possibly pay? By what standards are they insane?

Do YOU, just you, an educated person, really care that a celebrity endorses a candidate?
I don't consider Colin Powell, Scott McClellan, Bill Weld, or the other big-name Republicans for Obama to be celebrities, except in so much as they crossed party lines to endorse a candidate. I don't think anyone cares who Ben Affleck endorses.

Propaganda, as I understand the word, has implications of malicious intent, and dubious factual basis. Just look for a WW2 era depiction of a 'Jap'.

If you've never seen Triumph of the Will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will) by Leni Riefenstahl, make an effort to see it. Propaganda can be glorious and spectacular too. If you don't feel a bit of empathy for Hitler and the Nazis, you've got a heart of stone.

If you're campaigning for a new right-wing party, you're in the wrong place.

That's exactly what I'm doing, though not so much on NSG. I think it's time for all the Christian Conservatives to line up behind Sarah Palin and build a new coalition of the smug and intolerant. Once they've left the Republican Party, it can go back to being for the things that used to make it worth belonging to.

The new Evangelical Party can go off in a corner somewhere and make their plans to marginalize anyone who isn't like them, where we can ignore the 12% of Americans who would join such a party. The rest of us could get back to the business of arguing over where the nation actually needs to go, without the repugnant faux-moralistic overtones.

If you've never seen Triumph of the Will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will) by Leni Riefenstahl, make an effort to see it. Propaganda can be glorious and spectacular too. If you don't feel a bit of empathy for Hitler and the Nazis, you've got a heart of stone.
That's what makes propaganda so dangerous. It is a particularly well crafted kind of lie, the point of which is to put emotion in charge over reason. The noble Aryans. The evil Japs. The Hun raping Belgium and eating babies. They are designed to make you feel good about your own group and to hate and fear the other group, but never to actually stop and think about or critique either of them.

No one can speak against the Chosen One!!!! Obama 08!!!!

That's exactly what I'm doing, though not so much on NSG. I think it's time for all the Christian Conservatives to line up behind Sarah Palin and build a new coalition of the smug and intolerant. Once they've left the Republican Party, it can go back to being for the things that used to make it worth belonging to.

The new Evangelical Party can go off in a corner somewhere and make their plans to marginalize anyone who isn't like them, where we can ignore the 12% of Americans who would join such a party. The rest of us could get back to the business of arguing over where the nation actually needs to go, without the repugnant faux-moralistic overtones.
That's actually not a bad idea. I could support that. And I could also support a coalition between them and the Alaskan secessionists. Let them build their Jerusalem in their own little frozen country, and much happiness may it bring them, while I forget they exist.

That's exactly what I'm doing, though not so much on NSG. I think it's time for all the Christian Conservatives to line up behind Sarah Palin and build a new coalition of the smug and intolerant. Once they've left the Republican Party, it can go back to being for the things that used to make it worth belonging to.

The new Evangelical Party can go off in a corner somewhere and make their plans to marginalize anyone who isn't like them, where we can ignore the 12% of Americans who would join such a party. The rest of us could get back to the business of arguing over where the nation actually needs to go, without the repugnant faux-moralistic overtones.
so ive been listening to conservative talk radio for the past week or so....

rush limbaugh (who so often talks out his ass just to fill the air time) says that they are going to do just that. he is looking forward to purging the party of all those horrid traitors who endorsed obama and hate mrs palin...

i would like to see the republican party shed the fundamentalists (or put them into their proper place) and start reaching out to moderates again instead of forcing everyone with a brain and a heart to try to find a spot in the democratic party.

That's exactly what I'm doing, though not so much on NSG. I think it's time for all the Christian Conservatives to line up behind Sarah Palin and build a new coalition of the smug and intolerant. Once they've left the Republican Party, it can go back to being for the things that used to make it worth belonging to.

The new Evangelical Party can go off in a corner somewhere and make their plans to marginalize anyone who isn't like them, where we can ignore the 12% of Americans who would join such a party. The rest of us could get back to the business of arguing over where the nation actually needs to go, without the repugnant faux-moralistic overtones.I think that's a fantastic idea.

That's exactly what I'm doing, though not so much on NSG. I think it's time for all the Christian Conservatives to line up behind Sarah Palin and build a new coalition of the smug and intolerant. Once they've left the Republican Party, it can go back to being for the things that used to make it worth belonging to.

The new Evangelical Party can go off in a corner somewhere and make their plans to marginalize anyone who isn't like them, where we can ignore the 12% of Americans who would join such a party. The rest of us could get back to the business of arguing over where the nation actually needs to go, without the repugnant faux-moralistic overtones.

I think that's a fantastic idea.

The whole state can be renamed Jesusland or The Independent Christendom of Alaska.

That's just how a landslide goes. All those people who don't care much about the issues, or disagree with both sides, all get in on the act. He'll turn out like any other President, but woo-hoo are we gonna party on election night ...

Like the Hare Krishnas. They look like they're having fun, so people think they must be OK.

I'm more worried of people voting for Obama because they feel obligated to because he's Black. And I certianly don't want the idea coming out that because Obama is black your automatically racist if you don't vote for him, or don't care for him, or that your giving into the supposed " Bradley Effect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect[/url)

I don't plan on voting for Obama but it's not because I'm a racist, it's because I don't agree with him on the issues. That's what you should do when voting for your candidate.

The whole state can be renamed Jesusland or The Independent Christendom of Alaska.

"There's more oil here than in all of the Middle East! Praise the Lord!"

" Bradley Effect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect[/url) Link no worky. :p

Do YOU, just you, an educated person, really care that a celebrity endorses a candidate? Do you think the media should waste it's time reporting that? Do you think that it's utterly important that the world knows this bit of information?

I don't either, and that's mainly where my problem lies. Now what about those people that are easily influenced, and follow celebrity gossip and all that other crap? Don't you think that an uneducated person, that really doesn't care about politics and votes just because; don't you think that the fact that these famous people endorse Obama could change their mind?

As has been said in the thread, I couldn't care less who Ben Affleck endorses, but if someone like Colin Powell, a former member of the incumbent cabinet, a man who was talked about as a republican candidate for president, and who was talked about for McCain's VP spot, supports Obama, I want to know why. People with that kind of history don't just out-of-the-blue support a candidate from the opposing party without good reason to do so. Hell, I would conclude that if Colin Powell supports Obama, then he must really have something going for him.

I'm more worried of people voting for Obama because they feel obligated to because he's Black. And I certianly don't want the idea coming out that because Obama is black your automatically racist if you don't vote for him, or don't care for him, or that your giving into the supposed " Bradley Effect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect[/url)

I almost said something like that myself. But then I called myself a stinking racist and went outside to flog myself with a bullwhip. :tongue:

I saw an article detailing some other mayoral races and such which show that the Bradley effect doesn't always apply, and can even run in reverse. It's like a 'hump' you get over, and once you're familiar enough with the candidate, you start to react against your own earlier prejudice.

(I'm not saying you are prejudiced, mind. People in general do swing the other way once they've decided they were wrong about anything ... let's call it the "reformed smoker" effect.)

don't you think this is a type of propaganda?

Yes. Everything in politics, the media and your mothers bed time stories. It's all propaganda of the perfection of democracy. It's not important who runs the country as long as you have some one elected(In democracy) Propaganda is anything anybody uses to change your mind. Even this conversation will have blatant propaganda notes. You are free to make the choice between McCain or Obama but either choice was based on some form of propaganda

I don't consider Colin Powell, Scott McClellan, Bill Weld, or the other big-name Republicans for Obama to be celebrities, except in so much as they crossed party lines to endorse a candidate. I don't think anyone cares who Ben Affleck endorses.

Exactly, Daredevil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daredevil_(film)) sucked. Now Ironman on the other hand...

Exactly, Daredevil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daredevil_(film)) sucked. Now Ironman on the other hand...

Now, if Tony Stark came out in favor of Obama...

Now, if Tony Stark came out in favor of Obama...Obama would win in a land-slide. :p
Just because Iron Man said so.

From a democratic stance it is....

"People are scared of the "Bush Dynasty" and the "no change" policies of him. So we have nominated (or forced) onto the scene a man who promotes "Change through Fear" policies about America because they have no where to look in this crisis. So everyone will come out and vote for him because he is of another race, a new face in politics, as well as being a total radical. So no one wants to vote for the other guy because that would be racists."

Please explain how this is going to be "the best 4 years of your life"...

I think your own post pretty much answers your own question.

The whole state can be renamed Jesusland or The Independent Christendom of Alaska.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4027/jesuslandfg6.png (http://imageshack.us)



This map is going to be obsolete in a few days.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4027/jesuslandfg6.png (http://imageshack.us)



This map is going to be obsolete in a few days.Soon it will just be poor, little Alaska. :p

I voted Nader. Simple answer.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4027/jesuslandfg6.png (http://imageshack.us)



This map is going to be obsolete in a few days.

FUCK NO!! We're not giving them Alberta!!

This map is going to be obsolete in a few days.

Based on that map, I'd rather live in Jesusland. All that oil money from Alberta...Goddamn.

McCain hasn't been silent. Or, perhaps I should say the RNC hasn't been silent. Of course, I live in a battleground state, but for every Obama ad, I see at least two McCain ads (both are usually content-free and fact-free). The Obama ads usually sound pretty moderate whereas the McCain ads are usually fear-driven and desparate. Since these ads are paid announcements and the media is, in addition, legally bound to present both sides in advertising, I would say that the RNC is pretty much committing political suicide and doing it without any help from the media - except, of course, for the media's refusal to demand that the ads actually have substance.

My response to the whole miserable mess will probably be to vote a third party.

First of all, I have voted, and for neither McCain, or Obama. Saying that, I must say, that watching television, and listening to talk radio, I have seen things. First of all, there is a liberal media, no matter how much many of you want to deny it. It exists. It may not be as big as conservatives make it out to be, but it is there, and on the national level, that liberal media, treats everything about Obama like it is gold, and anything they can't make into gold, they ignore. I herd an example on Conservative talk radio the other day, which while disturbing, is kind of true. The most I will do is post this link (http://www.nowpublic.com/strange/don-wade-if-obama-murdered-his-grandmother), to a video about it. However, I believe his main point is true, and that the liberal media would twist anything to make Obama look good. I'm not saying the entire media, just the liberal branch. Also, I have an issue with the polls. I find them very in accurate, because, while most if not all of them have Obama leading, polls from the same time period, vary widely in the margin. If they were accurate, than the numbers would be much closer. Now I'm not trying to be anti-Obama or anything, I'm just presenting my opinion as things are. Also, I would like to point out, that under Bush, and the republican controlled congress, the economy was doing fine, though gas prices were high, and that, if you look at the facts, the basis for this economic crises, started about two years ago, when the democrats took control of the house and senate.

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me. I also resent the fact that the media slants everything and people just sit there and take it. They even go out and quote what they hear without ever really thinking about it. Americans are becoming a bunch of sheep and the media is their shepherd unfortunately. It is time we wake up and stand up for the things we believe!!

If you really believe any of the tripe you posted....awesome. I love crazy.

well you see the problem is, and there are some issues obama isn't all that great on at all, and some you really need a microscope to see the difference between them; but there just is NO issue, on which obama isn't better for then mccain.

I wonder how long until right wing blogs are full of stories about black helicopters and road sign guides for invading UN forces. I really miss the 90s :(

never underestimate the power of the media.

don't get me started on the media (as in newspapers, TV news, internet news) it added fuel to the flames of economic downturn, and they won't stop talking about it either. (i'm aware there are a few pieces of news which are interesting or useful, but in this case no definately not).

Right. So some people in the media, despite having evaluated the issues and decided Obama will be the best candidate, are supposed to pretend to support McCain instead for the sake of 'balance'? An independent free press isn't going to be neutral. People become journalists because they have strong opinions about pressing issues and how the country is meant to be run. McCain is getting a particularly hard ride because his campaign has been shoddy and poorly run, and his VP candidate is a complete joke. Fair enough, I'd say.

Also, I would like to point out, that under Bush, and the republican controlled congress, the economy was doing fine, though gas prices were high, and that, if you look at the facts, the basis for this economic crises, started about two years ago, when the democrats took control of the house and senate.

So, in this parallel universe you live in, do I have Ranma's curse and a sexy Asian bisexual magical girlfriend?

If you really believe any of the tripe you posted....awesome. I love crazy.

What about the media slanting stories to fit in with what they wanrt their aduience to hear? Surely you won't deny that. And I am not saying that is always a left wing bias it does go both ways and every which way.

Propaganda is anything anybody uses to change your mind.

Facts are propaganda now?

Because facts are quite good at changing my mind...

McCain hasn't been silent. Or, perhaps I should say the RNC hasn't been silent.
I live in fucking Rhode Island and I saw (well, heard, I was in a different room) a McCain ad on TV. At first I thought it had to be part of a satirical program because it was so out there.* Then I realized it was real from the disgusted remarks by the people watching it and by the endorsement on the end. Actually, now that I think of it, I never heard "I'm John McCain and I approve this message". I just heard something saying a local Republican group paid for it.

*blah blah blah Obama radical blah blah blah

Facts are propaganda now?

Because facts are quite good at changing my mind...

If given to you for that reason. yes

If given to you for that reason. yes
reality does have a liberal bias.

Obama would win in a land-slide. :p
Just because Iron Man said so.

Yep, unless Batman endorsed McCain.

Yep, unless Batman endorsed McCain.

Whilst Batman is pretty damn awesome, Iron Man is undoubtedly more awesome. Batman can glide, Iron Man can beat up a fighter jet. Batman fights criminals with his bare hands, Iron Man fights tanks. Batman has the batmobile, Iron Man can fly.

Whilst Batman is pretty damn awesome, Iron Man is undoubtedly more awesome. Batman can glide, Iron Man can beat up a fighter jet. Batman fights criminals with his bare hands, Iron Man fights tanks. Batman has the batmobile, Iron Man can fly.

Iron Man's an alcoholic prick.

If given to you for that reason. yes
So... according to you... if you think humans can fly, but then I tell you the facts about physiology and gravity, and as a result you decide not to jump off the roof of a 30-story building the way you were planning to... that means you were exposed to propaganda?

Or if a 2-year-old is about to touch a pretty shiny fire, and its parent stops it by telling it that "fire is hot, ouchy!", that is changing a child's mind through propaganda?

Or if you think it's safe to eat milk products that have been laced with melamine to up their apparent protein content, and I tell you that in fact, such products have sickened thousands of infants all over China and killed several of them, and I show you the reports that confirm that the melamine was the problem, and as a result, you decide to avoid giving such products to your child, I changed your mind through propaganda?

And you would consider such mind-changing facts to be on the same order, and thus describable by the same term, as blatantly inflammatory lies such as "Obama pals around with terrorists and hates the national anthem and wants to take away your money?"

Iron Man's an alcoholic prick.

Batman lost a girl to a politician.

So... according to you... if you think humans can fly, but then I tell you the facts about physiology and gravity, and as a result you decide not to jump off the roof of a 30-story building the way you were planning to... that means you were exposed to propaganda?

Or if a 2-year-old is about to touch a pretty shiny fire, and its parent stops it by telling it that "fire is hot, ouchy!", that is changing a child's mind through propaganda?

Or if you think it's safe to eat milk products that have been laced with melamine to up their apparent protein content, and I tell you that in fact, such products have sickened thousands of infants all over China and killed several of them, and I show you the reports that confirm that the melamine was the problem, and as a result, you decide to avoid giving such products to your child, I changed your mind through propaganda?

And you would consider such mind-changing facts to be on the same order, and thus describable by the same term, as blatantly inflammatory lies such as "Obama pals around with terrorists and hates the national anthem and wants to take away your money?"

Not of the same magnitude. But of the same sustenance. Just like killing one person and killing a million are the same idea but not the same size. Or something nicer like charity if ur weak of stomach.

Not of the same magnitude. But of the same sustenance. Just like killing one person and killing a million are the same idea but not the same size. Or something nicer like charity if ur weak of stomach.
I see... OK, well, this is good to know about you. *makes note*

You're wrong, of course, but... anyway.

Also, by the way, you wanted to use "substance." "Sustenance" means food.

And no, a fact is not of the same substance as a lie.

Also, by the way, you wanted to use "substance." "Sustenance" means food.

Mur, please, it's very clear he wishes to eat Obama and thus gain his power.

Facts are propaganda now?

Because facts are quite good at changing my mind...Not the facts themselves, but the act of communicating those facts to change your mind is propaganda.

I see... OK, well, this is good to know about you. *makes note*

You're wrong, of course, but... anyway.

Also, by the way, you wanted to use "substance." "Sustenance" means food.

And no, a fact is not of the same substance as a lie.

The word propaganda has nothing to do with whether something is true or a lie. Rather, it has something to do with the reason behind the spread of information. If the information is spread to promote a certain cause then, regardless of the truth behind it, it is propaganda.

Or, to use google: Define propaganda.

It can be one-sided, it can be a lot of things, but one thing the word doesn't mention is whether or not something is true or false. I can spread propaganda that is entirely true, but still propaganda because I attempt to promote one cause in particular and deny any other possibilities, for example.

Yes, they are being held to gunpoint and marched into the booths.

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.
If someone is not putting a gun to your head and saying, Vote Obama or die, then no, you're not being forced to vote for him.

If you don't have the intelligence and the drive to research the candidates yourself (there are other outlets than tv and radio) that's your problem.... especially since there are plenty of stations who are pro-Republican out there who ceaseless harp on the "Barack Osama" "hangs out with terrorists" "he's a Muslim" issues.

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.

No

.

Mur, please, it's very clear he wishes to eat Obama and thus gain his power.
Ooohhhh, I get it now. Silly me, reading NSG on only one cup of coffee. ;)

Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda?

Yeah, so?

Please explain how this is going to be "the best 4 years of your life"...



Explain how the economy tanking because big business got their share and fucked the majority of the population was good for the country?

Explain how getting stuck in the Middle East and sending kids to die there for the past seven years is good for the country?

Explain how having our Constitution used as a Presidential ass-wipe has been good for the country?

Explain how having US citizens' privacy rights eroded is good for the country?

Explain how letting religious kooks get a foot in the door toward telling a woman and her doctor what they can and can't decide about her health is good for the country?

Explain how going to war because God talks to our president is good for the country?

Explain how a 51% majority is a "mandate" from the people -- and that it didn't show how bitterly divided this country has been?

Explain how four more years of the same disastrous economic plans is good for the country?

Explain how McCain saying the economy is sound shows even the remotest idea of reality for the middle and working classes in this country?

I could go on, but plainly, these questions are a bit too much for rabid conservatives to handle.

Will Obama be a good president? Who knows, till he gets in there? He might be a fucking lousy president, but if he is we can kick his ass out of the White House in four years. Letting the Republicans just win it again for 12 years of disastrous policy because they're the incumbent party is lazy and stupid.

The Republicans have fucked the country up good the past decade. Let the Democrats have their chance to fuck things up. And who knows -- when the Democrats left the White House we had a surplus -- not a deficit our grand children will still be paying off and the biggest government we've ever had.

The word propaganda has nothing to do with whether something is true or a lie. Rather, it has something to do with the reason behind the spread of information. If the information is spread to promote a certain cause then, regardless of the truth behind it, it is propaganda.

Or, to use google: Define propaganda.

It can be one-sided, it can be a lot of things, but one thing the word doesn't mention is whether or not something is true or false. I can spread propaganda that is entirely true, but still propaganda because I attempt to promote one cause in particular and deny any other possibilities, for example.
"Fire is hot" is not propaganda.

Regardless of whether a statement is true or false on the facts, propaganda requires that the statement be used NOT JUST to change minds, but rather to create and manipulate specific emotional reactions.

Because of the manipulative nature of propaganda, I would argue that it has an inherently false nature. The content of what it says is not important. The propagandist does not need to care whether what he is saying is true or not. So, to that degree, I suppose propaganda is better described as "bullshit" rather than "lie."

So, "Fire is hot so don't touch it with your bare hand" is not propaganda, but "Fire, which destroys homes and kills and maims human beings by its hotness, is BAD! Water, which destroys fire is GOOD! Water will protect us from the danger of fire! Support Water!!! Those who associate with fire are suspect. Do they want to burn our houses down? Well DO they??? They say they don't, but then why do they carry matches around???" would be propaganda.

Now, of course, the poster I was responding to was saying that facts presented to get people to change their minds about something are propaganda, but that is clearly not a good argument, because it is so broad, it would include even simple warnings such as "don't touch fire with your bare hand because it will burn you."

As if fear never did run rampant on both sides, it has in the past, and no doubt will in the future...that I agree with you on. As for far left democrats...I ment to say "extremely liberal" or almost radical (far left) Far right is very conservative, and middle are moderates.
You're joking, right? Since Bush got back into office on 2004 because of the FEAR that the "damn dirty Muslims* and terrorists" would destroy America...


*note that this is NOT my view, but what was sold to 51% of the public, and had been crowed about as a "mandate from the people".

It should tell you something that Bush's approval rating is in the crapper. What it should tell you is that people have had enough conservative bullshit, and are willing to give some liberal bullshit a chance to see if it will be any better.

If someone is not putting a gun to your head and saying, Vote Obama or die, then no, you're not being forced to vote for him.

See post immediately before yours.


"Barack Osama" "hangs out with terrorists" "he's a Muslim" issues.



Yeah, I've never understood that. Especially what with him promising to put more troops in Afghanistan and to be harder on Pakistan so Osama can be caught.

All I can say is Obama scares the bejeebers out of me. I also resent the fact that the media slants everything and people just sit there and take it. They even go out and quote what they hear without ever really thinking about it. Americans are becoming a bunch of sheep and the media is their shepherd unfortunately. It is time we wake up and stand up for the things we believe!!
Yes, obviously you've been assimilated by the Oborga.

Oh wait....

Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win

Well this isn't true. Someone trusts the polls too much, methinks...

It's not over until it's over.

Another comment about propaganda:

Obama's 30-minute infomercial was propaganda. It was specifically designed to emotionally reassure the public that he understands average Americans and their concerns and that he is "one of us." It was made in direct response to the propaganda spread by the McCain campaign that Obama is somehow "not one of us."

McCain's propaganda seeks to elicit negative emotions by playing on stereotypes of things Americans fear.

Obama's propaganda seeks to elicit positive emotions by playing on stereotypes of things Americans like.

It just so happens that Obama's propaganda is based on facts and McCain's propaganda is based on lies, but that doesn't change the fact that both are propaganda, as compared to factual explanations and analyses of each candidate's policy proposals. The facts or the lies were not the point of the propaganda. The point of it was to sway people's feelings.

Now, I happened to pay more attention to the explanations and analyses of the policy proposals and to the actual events of each campaign (what they did, how they were run, etc.), and on the basis of those facts, I changed my mind from being doubtful about Obama to being sure I wanted to vote for him, and from being doubtful about McCain to being sure that I could no longer support him for anyting, even though before the campaign he had been one of the Republicans I respected the most.

So the facts did change my views, but that does not make them propaganda.

Well this isn't true. Someone trusts the polls too much, methinks...

It's not over until it's over.

There's no chance for McCain to win. There is however a chance for Obama to lose it. Then there's always fraud, that's worked well in past.

Not of the same magnitude. But of the same sustenance. Just like killing one person and killing a million are the same idea but not the same size. Or something nicer like charity if ur weak of stomach.

You're completely removing all meaning from the word propaganda.

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=propaganda

The definition of propaganda.

So, in this parallel universe you live in, do I have Ranma's curse and a sexy Asian bisexual magical girlfriend?

Two years ago, the stock market was setting records, and employment was down. In the two years that the Democrats have had control of the congress, that has done a 180 degree turn. I'm simply stating facts. If you chose not to believe them, that is your choice.

Two years ago, the stock market was setting records, and employment was down. In the two years that the Democrats have had control of the congress, that has done a 180 degree turn. I'm simply stating facts. If you chose not to believe them, that is your choice.

Well, the problem is you're stating unrelated facts.

Well, the problem is you're stating unrelated facts.

Okay, so the government has nothing to do with the stock market, and unemployment? then why are we voting for Obama, when he claims he can fix something that has nothing to do with government?

Two years ago, the stock market was setting records, and employment was down. In the two years that the Democrats have had control of the congress, that has done a 180 degree turn. I'm simply stating facts. If you chose not to believe them, that is your choice.

The Democrats do not have a veto-proof majority. So, even in your stupid fantasy where Congress is solely responsible for the collapse of the banking industry, Republican participation would be required.

Okay, so the government has nothing to do with the stock market, and unemployment?

The political makeup of the Congress doesn't make or break the economy. You seem to think it does, but other than magical wands I don't see in what way.

The Democrats do not have a veto-proof majority. So, even in your stupid fantasy where Congress is solely responsible for the collapse of the banking industry, Republican participation would be required.

Also, I never said the Republicans were any better, or any less complicit. If you read my early post, you would know that I voted for neither Obama or McCain. I'm just saying, that electing Democrats to fix the problem isn't a solution. What we need is less government, not more, because, I think we all agree, the U.S. Government isn't really that good at doing much of anything, yet Obama's solution to that is, to make it bigger. Finally, if your going to vote Obama in, that's fine, however, it would not be good, for one party to hold total power over the government, I.E. you should also vote in Republican congress persons, as the best times are those where the congress is under control of one side, and the President is of the opposite party, because we have seen what the Republicans have done with the rubber stamp, do you believe the Democrats will be any better?

Also, I never said the Republicans were any better, or any less complicit. If you read my early post, you would know that I voted for neither Obama or McCain. I'm just saying, that electing Democrats to fix the problem isn't a solution. What we need is less government, not more, because, I think we all agree, the U.S. Government isn't really that good at doing much of anything, yet Obama's solution to that is, to make it bigger. Finally, if your going to vote Obama in, that's fine, however, it would not be good, for one party to hold total power over the government, I.E. you should also vote in Republican congress persons, as the best times are those where the congress is under control of one side, and the President is of the opposite party, because we have seen what the Republicans have done with the rubber stamp, do you believe the Democrats will be any better?

I read your post, and it contained an implication that the Democrats taking Congress in 2006 was the cause of the economic collapse of the past two years. I'm saying that that's retarded.

As for giving the Republicans control of Congress, what exactly over the past 8 years has that party done to convince me that they should be in charge of anything? I've seen them force through their assinine agenda for the past 8 years. I want them as far away from my government as possible.

I read your post, and it contained an implication that the Democrats taking Congress in 2006 was the cause of the economic collapse of the past two years. I'm saying that that's retarded.

As for giving the Republicans control of Congress, what exactly over the past 8 years has that party done to convince me that they should be in charge of anything? I've seen them force through their assinine agenda for the past 8 years. I want them as far away from my government as possible.

I'm just saying that we need checks and balances, I.E., a congress that isn't in the President's pocket, the founders of this nation, designed the constitution with that idea in mind, and we have seen, over the last eight years, how a one party government operates, it's not good. If you wish to go through with it, that is your choice. I cast my vote for president, the chance that it will mean much of anything, very slim, but I can last 4 years with a rubber stamp government, I'm just expressing my insight into the topic at hand, which we seem to have drifted away from.

There is no peer pressure alone in a voting booth. Your vote is only between you and Diebold.

There is no peer pressure alone in a voting booth. Your vote is only between you and Diebold.

Just like when you're at the ATM, your money is only between you and Diebold?

Once the Board of Elections receives the voting machines, with the exception of contracted physical maintenance, Diebold has nothing to do with the administration of the voting machines.

I read your post, and it contained an implication that the Democrats taking Congress in 2006 was the cause of the economic collapse of the past two years. I'm saying that that's retarded.

It was obviously The Beatus joining the forums in 2007 that was responsible <nods>.

I just read the title of this thread as something about "pub lice", which in turn sounds like something you might catch after hooking up with the wrong person at a pub :P

Two years ago, the stock market was setting records, and employment was down. In the two years that the Democrats have had control of the congress, that has done a 180 degree turn. I'm simply stating facts. If you chose not to believe them, that is your choice.

I'm just saying that we need checks and balances, I.E., a congress that isn't in the President's pocket, the founders of this nation, designed the constitution with that idea in mind, and we have seen, over the last eight years, how a one party government operates, it's not good. If you wish to go through with it, that is your choice. I cast my vote for president, the chance that it will mean much of anything, very slim, but I can last 4 years with a rubber stamp government, I'm just expressing my insight into the topic at hand, which we seem to have drifted away from.
You seem to be arguing at cross purposes. At one point you point to a relation to when the legislative and executive were divided and economic decline, then insist that it is your argument that the legislative and executive should be divided. In fact, you advocate the exact same division, a Democratic controlled congress and a Republican president, that has existed from your own 'starting point'.

Perhaps you want to back up and make another run at this.

and we have seen, over the last eight years, how a republican dominated government operates, it's not good.

Fixed

You want to know how people are being forced to vote for Obama?


His supporters are carving his initials into their face.

You want to know how people are being forced to vote for Obama?


His supporters are carving his initials into their face.

Could be worse, Ralph Nader's supporters are carving it somewhere...further south...

Two years ago, the stock market was setting records, and employment was down. In the two years that the Democrats have had control of the congress, that has done a 180 degree turn. I'm simply stating facts. If you chose not to believe them, that is your choice.You've got your facts wrong. People have been pointing out that the housing bubble was going to be a problem for the last THREE years at least, and the problem itself has been in the making far longer than that. The economy hasn't done a 180° turn, it's driven off the cliff it's been speeding towards.

No.

I can drag out at least 30 Trolls who can resist teh ebil liberal medias so its obviously not that hard.

More on topic though when does it stop being editorial and start being propaganda anyway?I will take that bet. You have 48 hours to find 30 trolls and brings them to this thread. If you fail I shall steall all your pies for one day.

"Ah, shit man...what a night...shit. My bed smells like sex. I smell like sex. Oh god...my crotch...I have PUB LICE!"

I will take that bet. You have 48 hours to find 30 trolls and brings them to this thread. If you fail I shall steall all your pies for one day.
And then return them when the day is over?

There's no chance for McCain to win. There is however a chance for Obama to lose it.

The end result would be the same though.

And then return them when the day is over?

Laundered and folded. You'll never know they'd been used.

"Ah, shit man...what a night...shit. My bed smells like sex. I smell like sex. Oh god...my crotch...I have PUB LICE!"

Lice are people too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lice_Capades

I will take that bet. You have 48 hours to find 30 trolls and brings them to this thread. If you fail I shall steall all your pies for one day.

I've recieved better offers to not find 30 trolls :p

Might be some truth to the Media hype... but McCain hasn't exactly made himself friendly to the media.

One, Palin has called the Media the Liberal elite. Now that's an insult to a lot of journalists.

And another reason is that media people do not take kindly to being beaten. Yes, there were some independant journalists that ended up being treated really badly during the Republican convention. I am not saying that it's McCain's fault that this happened. But it doesn't exactly endear you to the Republicans. Here is the link about it: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/2/amy_goodman_two_democracy_now_producers


Anyway.... the media hasn't exactly been treated well by the Republican lately. The media does hold a lot of power, it's better not to offend them, for obvious reasons.

One, Palin has called the Media the Liberal elite. Now that's an insult to a lot of journalists. So is Fox News. That's nothing new.

Just like when you're at the ATM, your money is only between you and Diebold?

Once the Board of Elections receives the voting machines, with the exception of contracted physical maintenance, Diebold has nothing to do with the administration of the voting machines.
Then who will pre-load the machines with O votes?

Then who will pre-load the machines with O votes?

The ebil liberal voting machines themselves to overthrow their corporate masters

So is Fox News. That's nothing new.


LOL too true. When the news takes more of a bent towards the Democrat then the media has to be liberal elite. Damn it they can't be conservative.

Speaking of which, I am surprized we haven't heard a lot from Ann Coulter lately. Usually she is a lot more vocal than she has been. Hmmm has she been hiding in the shadows. Last time I saw her on TV, she wasn't exactly enamored with McCain.

So, in this parallel universe you live in, do I have Ranma's curse and a sexy Asian bisexual magical girlfriend?
Cursed with Awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CursedWithAwesome)
Yep, unless Batman endorsed McCain.

Introduce a little anarchy in 08, write in Joker/Dent.

Cursed with Awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CursedWithAwesome)

Yeeeeeeeup.

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.

Any evidence whatsoever to back these assertions would be welcome.

While some people might be just jumping on the band wagon, most of Obama's support is due to the fact that

A: he's charismatic, and

B: the other party screwed up royally.


The majority of the country liking the better candidate and voicing that opinion is not propaganda, at least not in a negative sense. On the contrary, its called democracy. Also, their is no reasonable chance for McCain to win, not using legal methods anyways.

I do have some reservations about news organizations endorsing a candidate due to the need for factual and non-biased news coverage. Other media, I don't give a rat's ass who they endorse. Its a free country.

Introduce a little anarchy in 08, write in Joker/Dent.
Now, there's a ticket I can get behind.

When did persuasion become "force" and information become "propaganda"?

As with many of these things, when there is disagreement in public discourse.

It seems very few individuals describe their beliefs and actions with the same terms they apply to those of the opposition.

Then who will pre-load the machines with O votes?

Magical Panda's, the City of Cleveland, Canada and Mongolia.

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.

If you can be FORCED to vote for anyone then you are a weak link. Vote for who you want on principle or don't bother.

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.

Thank you, captain of the f-ing obvious. Of course people follow the bandwagon, it's human nature.

Actually, I'd say more people are voting now on their own choice than ever before, given that many people are not happy with the Republicans.

Of course, I support McCain, but meh, let's see in another 4 years what's up, eh?

Nobody's being forced to vote for anybody. If they choose to vote a certain way based basically on popular opinion, well, that's just how people work.

Do YOU, just you, an educated person, really care that a celebrity endorses a candidate? Do you think the media should waste it's time reporting that? Do you think that it's utterly important that the world knows this bit of information?

I don't either, and that's mainly where my problem lies. Now what about those people that are easily influenced, and follow celebrity gossip and all that other crap? Don't you think that an uneducated person, that really doesn't care about politics and votes just because; don't you think that the fact that these famous people endorse Obama could change their mind?
ah right. The masses are voting for Obama because they don't know any better. They're too ignorant and uneducated to be able to decide for themselves.
And this from the side that labels the opposing side, 'elitist'.

On the positive side, as long as the Right keep telling themselves this is the reason for Obama's popularity and (fingers crossed) impending victory, they'll continue to languish as the minority party.
They really really just don't get it, do they?

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.

Yes black people with guns have appeared at all the voting booths and they look over your shoulder and make sure you vote obama.

Introduce a little anarchy in 08, write in Joker/Dent.

hah!
http://blog.erdener.org/archives/images/20070328-cthulhu-for-president.jpg
http://blog.erdener.org/archives/images/20070328-cthulhu-for-president.jpg

hah!
http://blog.erdener.org/archives/images/20070328-cthulhu-for-president.jpg
http://blog.erdener.org/archives/images/20070328-cthulhu-for-president.jpg

Cthulhu is going to Perot/Nader off McCain's vote. Let's face it, at this point if the Republicans win the end of the world is pretty much guaranteed and the Big C wants to be the one to do it.

hah!
http://blog.erdener.org/archives/images/20070328-cthulhu-for-president.jpg
http://blog.erdener.org/archives/images/20070328-cthulhu-for-president.jpg
http://bookstoysgames.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cthulhu4prez-preview1.png?w=420&h=420
Yup. :p

Not unless the Black Panthers have reformed and are holding guns to people at polling booths :S

Not unless the Black Panthers have reformed and are holding guns to people at polling booths :S

didn't you read my post that's what they are doing.
And there has been a New black panther party since the 80's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party

Those pricks here(dallas tx) have gone into school board meetings(the meetings were then canceled) with guns when a proposal they didn't like was being discussed.

didn't you read my post that's what they are doing.
And there has been a New black panther party since the 80's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party

Those pricks here(dallas tx) have gone into school board meetings(the meetings were then canceled) with guns when a proposal they didn't like was being discussed.

The solution here is to arrest them all then schedule the replacement meeting during the bail hearing.

The only person making people vote for Barack Obama is Barack Obama.

Pretty straightforward question. It seems as if everyone and their mother is endorsing Obama, including major media outlets. Now NSG, don't you think this is a type of propaganda? Giving the idea that there's no chance for McCain to win, and if you wanna be cool, vote Obama?

I'd be inclined to think that if you ask any Joe on the street who he's voting for and why, he'd say Obama and because he's the way to go, or some other lame, vague reason.

Opinions, discussion, please.


While Obama will win the election, thier is no doubt there is a pro Obama Liberal media bias. As most of you may be aware studies have shown that most major media persons vote Democrat by at least 80 percent %. Similar to the Hollywood stars pro Obama Liberal bias endorsements.

While Obama will win the election, thier is no doubt there is a pro Obama Liberal media bias.


Buwhaha.

As most of you may be aware studies have shown that most major media persons vote Democrat by at least 80 percent %. Similar to the Hollywood stars pro Obama Liberal bias endorsements.

Source?

I hope for the sake of the USA many of you dont soon regret it. I think many Independent voters who will vote for Obama will soon regret it.

I think Obama's superior policies are forcing people to vote Obama. Which is just unacceptable really, whatever happened to democracy?

I hope for the sake of the USA many of you dont soon regret it. I think many Independent voters who will vote for Obama will soon regret it.

Soooouuuurrrcccceeesssss......

I hope for the sake of the USA many of you dont soon regret it. I think many Independent voters who will vote for Obama will soon regret it.

That is what you wish, wishes I've only seen from foolish people too tied up in the politics of fear and hate to bother about things like where their next meal is coming from, their right not to be thrown into jail on a whim for decades, and other little things like that.

Foolish people who would whine when they are subjected to the consequences of their actions.

That is what you wish, wishes I've only seen from foolish people too tied up in the politics of fear and hate to bother about things like where their next meal is coming from, their right not to be thrown into jail on a whim for decades, and other little things like that.

Foolish people who would whine when they are subjected to the consequences of their actions.Elliptical/circular logic is such a pain.

The solution here is to arrest them all then schedule the replacement meeting during the bail hearing.

yeah so many showed up that the police told the school board they weren't going to show up.

One- Eyed Weasel makes a good point. In fact, many people are Obama supporters, but they really don't know what he's all about. This is because of the media, etc. Now I am an Obama supporter, but I actually pay attention to politics. I don't just like Obama because he's cool and because everybody is endorsing him, I actually agree with many of his issues. But, that is not the case with others.

I hope for the sake of the USA many of you dont soon regret it. I think many Independent voters who will vote for Obama will soon regret it.

That is what you wish, wishes I've only seen from foolish people too tied up in the politics of fear and hate to bother about things like where their next meal is coming from, their right not to be thrown into jail on a whim for decades, and other little things like that.

Foolish people who would whine when they are subjected to the consequences of their actions.

Elliptical/circular logic is such a pain.

This is Miami Shores after all, who voted for 8 years of the Bushevik Revolution based solely on Clinton sending Little Elian back home to his daddy in Evil Castroland.

This is Miami Shores after all, who voted for 8 years of the Bushevik Revolution based solely on Clinton sending Little Elian back home to his daddy in Evil Castroland.Scratch pain.
Make that a migraine.

One- Eyed Weasel makes a good point. In fact, many people are Obama supporters, but they really don't know what he's all about. This is because of the media, etc. Now I am an Obama supporter, but I actually pay attention to politics. I don't just like Obama because he's cool and because everybody is endorsing him, I actually agree with many of his issues. But, that is not the case with others.

who cares as long they vote for him :p

One- Eyed Weasel makes a good point. In fact, many people are Obama supporters, but they really don't know what he's all about. This is because of the media, etc. Now I am an Obama supporter, but I actually pay attention to politics. I don't just like Obama because he's cool and because everybody is endorsing him, I actually agree with many of his issues. But, that is not the case with others.

Are you going for the political equivalent of the aged punk rocker who sits in the back of the show complaining about all the bogus fans crowding up the club? "Pff...Obama's first campaign was when he really rocked...these guys don't know anything."

Not exactly, but the media is in love with Obama. McCain never really had a chance given their bias.

Not exactly, but the media is in love with Obama. McCain never really had a chance given their bias.
Are you really going to look at everything McCain has done -- every misstep and error, the choice of Palin, his voting record, the mountains of sleaze and lies, all that -- and suggest that it was the media that crippled his campaign? Seriously?

Are you really going to look at everything McCain has done -- every misstep and error, the choice of Palin, his voting record, the mountains of sleaze and lies, all that -- and suggest that it was the media that crippled his campaign? Seriously?

Its pathetic really. For some reason, people think that you have to be equally positive and negative about both sides. Problem is, one side has an abundance of stupidity and negative things, while the other just doesnt. But right wingers want the media to pretend that isnt the case. What do they expect? Something like this, for example:

"John McCain is being dishonost about Obama's tax plan and is inciting race riots. Now, to the Obama campaign. At a campaign stop in Iowa, Obama farted while delivering his speeh."


Of course, if the media reported that, the McCain campaign would probably pick up on it and say that this is proof of Obama's clear elitest disdain towards blue collar workers and is probably a terrorist.

Are you really going to look at everything McCain has done -- every misstep and error, the choice of Palin, his voting record, the mountains of sleaze and lies, all that -- and suggest that it was the media that crippled his campaign? Seriously?

no, I'm saying it would be closer if the media was fair. I'm not saying he would win or the media is solely to blame.

Its pathetic really. For some reason, people think that you have to be equally positive and negative about both sides. Problem is, one side has an abundance of stupidity and negative things, while the other just doesnt. But right wingers want the media to pretend that isnt the case. What do they expect? Something like this, for example:

"John McCain is being dishonost about Obama's tax plan and is inciting race riots. Now, to the Obama campaign. At a campaign stop in Iowa, Obama farted while delivering his speeh."


Of course, if the media reported that, the McCain campaign would probably pick up on it and say that this is proof of Obama's clear elitest disdain towards blue collar workers and is probably a terrorist.

Actually they would say it's proof that Obama is not an environmentalist at all, clearly not if he would put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere by farting.

Its pathetic really. For some reason, people think that you have to be equally positive and negative about both sides. Problem is, one side has an abundance of stupidity and negative things, while the other just doesnt. But right wingers want the media to pretend that isnt the case. What do they expect? Something like this, for example:

"John McCain is being dishonost about Obama's tax plan and is inciting race riots. Now, to the Obama campaign. At a campaign stop in Iowa, Obama farted while delivering his speeh."


Of course, if the media reported that, the McCain campaign would probably pick up on it and say that this is proof of Obama's clear elitest disdain towards blue collar workers and is probably a terrorist.

if you gave Obama a few more terms in the senate I am sure he would have been corrupted.

no, I'm saying it would be closer if the media was fair. I'm not saying he would win or the media is solely to blame.
When I look at the runaway clusterfuck express that is the McCain campaign, I have a hard time believing that.

And McCain may still win. Obama IS black, you know, and this IS the US, you know... Just saying.

if you gave Obama a few more terms in the senate I am sure he would have been corrupted.

Well that's nice. Obama isn't corrupt, but if we just use time travel you're sure he would be! SCANDALOUS.

Is the general public being forced to Vote Obama?

No.

Any other questions???

Is there some metric by which we can judge the bias of "the media"?

Perhaps a statistical test of the occurrence of 'biased' words in their printed or recited text, calibrated according to reader/viewer-ship. Or perhaps we could measure the degree of partiality, again measured by a countable quantity (like superlatives in description of a candidate or their performance) and compared with the same media outlet in non-election times.

Nah.

If you're for McCain, it's almost all bad news. Don't shoot the messenger.

Do YOU, just you, an educated person, really care that a celebrity endorses a candidate? Do you think the media should waste it's time reporting that? Do you think that it's utterly important that the world knows this bit of information?

I dont but obviously the editors know what is selling these days. If people werent buying the crap, the stuff wouldnt be published.

Just the other day, I carted out a lady who thinks that the only fair sources of information are Fox News and the National Enquirer, and is very much certain that Obama is a socialist. One of my coworkers if voting McCain because her parents run a small business, and she finds Republican policy to favor her parents. Another one of my coworkers is convinced by a reliable source that he refuses to name that Obama is part of a conspiracy to put a Muslim in the White House by 2012, which cannot be because he's from New York and therefore someone he knows may have died in 9/11, not that he's heard anything. Finally, one of the managers is very much convinced that McCain wants us out of Iraq as soon as possible. In conclusion, there are plenty of people who support McCain / oppose Obama for... a variety of reasons.

Not exactly, but the media is in love with Obama. McCain never really had a chance given their bias.


BAHAHAHAHAHA......McCain never had a chance because he turned into a freakin senile, incompetent, idiotic bunghole. I used to kinda like the guy until he started using Karl Rove to wipe his ass and selected a VP candidate by throwing darts at various pics. You CANNOT blame his downfall (should he lose) on the media. Blame his sorry-ass campaign

Two years ago, the stock market was setting records, and employment was down. In the two years that the Democrats have had control of the congress, that has done a 180 degree turn. I'm simply stating facts. If you chose not to believe them, that is your choice.


Good thinking brotha...name one policy in Congress the Dems are responsible for that caused this giant freakin mess we're in now!

no, I'm saying it would be closer if the media was fair.

And what, exactly, has the media done that has been unfair to McCain?

Obama and Biden v. McCain and Sarah- the warmonger and the moose hunter- how is voting for the better party "being forced"?

Stupid butthurt republican.

And what, exactly, has the media done that has been unfair to McCain?

Not ignoring every stupid or crazy thing about him, instead just ignoring most of them?

i think the corporate media thought they were forcing us to vote for mccain when they snubbed kussenich, gravel, and ron paul. i sortof think they may have somewhat miscalculated. then again, they wouldn't have let us have obama without thinking they'd vetted him too. then again, he may have bought his own vetting the way kennidy did way back when. the parallels seem to be almost endless.

Oh, they really fucked up now...

Oprah Winfrey, Queen of Television, doing the early voting thing, reports that an electronic touch screen machine failed to record her presidential vote.

I just heard a clip on the radio of her re-enacting her polling place meltdown for her show. Shades of "Off with their heads!!!" :D So I hit the google:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-friedman/oprahs-vote-lost-how-you_b_140026.html

Why isn't the media reporting that Obama molests innocent, white, Christian boys and girls? Every time they show us something stupid that McCain/Palin has said or done, they are obligated to make up a lie about Obama to make them both look bad. That's fair and balanced reporting. What happened to freedom of the press?!?!?!?! wah!

forced? roflcopter...

Why isn't the media reporting that Obama molests innocent, white, Christian boys and girls? Every time they show us something stupid that McCain/Palin has said or done, they are obligated to make up a lie about Obama to make them both look bad. That's fair and balanced reporting. What happened to freedom of the press?!?!?!?! wah!

want to hear something? the press is so obviously anti-obama that they reported he fathered not one, but TWO african american children.

want to hear something? the press is so obviously anti-obama that they reported he fathered not one, but TWO african american children.

These racist lies must be stopped! Am I right? *terrorist fist jab*



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I feel soooo lucky that I got to vote in a battleground state

Lewis Rothschild: They don't have a choice! Bob Rumson is the only one doing the talking! People want leadership, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.

President Andrew Shepherd: Lewis, we've had presidents who were beloved, who couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference.

Sounds about right...

I'm just laughing at the supporters of McCain AND Obama. The canidates are not the true leaders we need. They are the best LIERS their respective parties can come up with, but neither are true leaders. McCain seems to like war and he isn't going to end our occupation of Iraq or Afgahnistan. He also is likely to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb I-ran" while president (if Bush doesn't start up that war before he leaves office). Obama has the LEAST amount of political experiance of all presidential canidates and he is so far left I'm surprised he isn't running under the socialist party.

It is sad that my fellow Americans can not be bothered to actually look for information on ALL the canidates instead of being spoonfed by the media on the two 'main' party's canidates. The reason America is as screwed up as we are is because the average joe doesn't care. I just hope something extremely bad happens to our country (invasion, nuke in a city, president goes nuts or is caught in a scandle to sell out the country, government turns into a police state or to facism) so people wake up and realize that we are screwing ourselves over with Obama AND McCain. Both are going to be just as terrible (in different ways but still disasters none-the-less)

Sounds about right...

I'm just laughing at the supporters of McCain AND Obama. The canidates are not the true leaders we need. They are the best LIERS their respective parties can come up with, but neither are true leaders. McCain seems to like war and he isn't going to end our occupation of Iraq or Afgahnistan. He also is likely to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb I-ran" while president (if Bush doesn't start up that war before he leaves office). Obama has the LEAST amount of political experiance of all presidential canidates and he is so far left I'm surprised he isn't running under the socialist party.

The only reason one could possibly be surprised by that is if one doesn't know what "socialist" means.

It is sad that my fellow Americans can not be bothered to actually look for information on ALL the canidates instead of being spoonfed by the media on the two 'main' party's canidates. The reason America is as screwed up as we are is because the average joe doesn't care.

If the nation is screwed up, i'ts less a result of voter apathy as it is voter ignorance. As you so aptly demonstrate.

Obama has the LEAST amount of political experiance

This again? Someone, address this. *Waves hand tiredly.*

of all presidential canidates and he is so far left I'm surprised he isn't running under the socialist party.

And this? Yeah, dude. He's SO FAR LEFT that he's gaining RIGHT WING CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE votes!

Or perhaps, these so-called christian so-called conservatives were actually Russian spies all along!

It is sad that my fellow Americans can not be bothered to actually look for information on ALL the canidates

The fact that you think he's "so far left" compared to any realistic measure, let alone the actual socialist candidates, shows that you yourself weren't bothered to look for any information - or, your analysis was without thought.

instead of being spoonfed by the media

As if "Obama's inexperience" and "Obama is a radical far leftist" wasn't spoonfed to you by the media? Quit trying to make like you're better than "my fellow Americans." This haughty, "we're the right-thinking, true America/Americans" shit is part of the reason why the Republican campaign is failing so miserably.

Having our loyalty/ability to watch media without being accused of brainwashing/patriotism/common sense/intelligence constantly questioned is not winning people like me over. I don't think Obama is so drastically different from McCain, and certainly not "far left," but he has my vote because the "lol you leftists are brainwashed by your leftist media into supporting your leftist agenda to turn us all into leftists!!" mantra is so bloody tiresome and obnoxious.

I just hope something extremely bad happens to our country (invasion, nuke in a city, president goes nuts or is caught in a scandle to sell out the country, government turns into a police state or to facism)

Wow. Well, there are international organizations out there dedicated to just that, aren't there.

so people wake up and realize that we are screwing ourselves over with Obama AND McCain. Both are going to be just as terrible (in different ways but still disasters none-the-less)

!!

So your reasoning is, "Obama and McCain are terrible because they will cause disaster to this country. So I hope disaster strikes this country, so everyone will know how bad Obama and McCain are!"

Jesus man. I want what you're smoking.

Not exactly, but the media is in love with Obama. McCain never really had a chance given their bias.

The election isn't actually over yet....

When McCain goes belly-up, it's not going to be because popstars, newspaper moguls, actors... supported him. It MIGHT have a little to do with how many of the Republican party faithful have crossed the lines.

If Obama wins, it is going to be because he's run an absolutely phenomenal campaign. And McCain looks set to lose for much the same reason - because he's run a horrible campaign.

If McCain had looked like McCain looked even 8 years ago, and - more importantly - ACTED like he would have done 8 years ago... this election season would have been a different animal. Obama is not just the best candidate this year, he's also run the best campaign. Media bias isn't going to win or lose this election for anyone.

I wont belive the vote has been hacked until Kevin Mitnick is elected president. Then I will know the votes been hacked.

They're being 'forced' to vote Obama in much the same way a person is 'forced' to choose to eat an ice-cream when the alternative is eating a pile of dogshit while having a ten year old boy repeatedly kick you in your groin.

those were good lulz