NationStates Jolt Archive

I've had a couple of acquaintances who've had alcohol and drug problems. Invariably, when they've managed to beat these problems, they've substituted something else for the addictive substance, usually religion. So it's not as if they've actually uncovered and confronted the underlying problem, they're just using another form of escape.

So, the question is, if alcoholism and drug addiction are "diseases," (or if you prefer, chemical imbalances that create a physiological environment that predispose one to chemical addiction) and the addict successfully overcomes the chemical addiction by subsituting religion, does that make religion an addiction and, therefore, a disease or a manifestation of disease?

Before the religious types get distressed, I'm not typifying all manifestations of religion as disease, only the hyperextreme evangelical types who aggressively push their religion (and if you've spent any time with a reformed addict who found God, you'll know what I mean). (Also, I won't argue whether substituting God for heroin is good or bad - I much prefer a God addict to a heroin addict).

I think it would be the same as those who substitute chewing gum for smoking they move over to that it helps them out and they get off it.

Whatever works.

Why are you anti-social darwinism? I just noticed what your name means.

The problem with addictions is the phrase 'giving up'.

You're giving up nothing, you're freeing yourself from addiction.

Most programs fail to comprehend this, they buy into and therefore reinforce the idea that 'it's difficult to give up' and thus 'it's no problem if you fail, we'll keep trying'.

It's a mental attitude, and it's wrong.

Why are you anti-social darwinism? I just noticed what your name means.

Are you sure? Am I an anti-social darwinist or am I anti social-darwinism? hmm?:wink:

Better Than Drugs? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcAInOrk_JA)

Alcohol is, by any definition, a mind-altering drug.

I think the definition of an addiction is most importantly associated with negative effects on others and other aspects of your life; if you can manage your consumption of drugs so that it doesn't negatively affect others or other aspects of your life, it's not really an addiction.

Perhaps substituting religion can be seen as an addiction. But it's probably healthier to be addicted to Jeebus than to be addicted to meth.

Perhaps substituting religion can be seen as an addiction. But it's probably healthier to be addicted to Jeebus than to be addicted to meth.

Psh. How do you know? Have you ever tried meth yourself?

Psh. How do you know? Have you ever tried meth yourself?

Nah, I'd rather stick to amphetamines.

Psh. How do you know? Have you ever tried meth yourself?

No. I saw what it did to my friend though.

The withdrawal effects of religion are terrible - people say it is just like a dose of the flu, but the poor person doing cold turkey will do anything for a little bit of God. Those who try to kick their God addiction by tapering off by joining the Church of England fare just as badly. Just say no to God children.

The withdrawal effects of religion are terrible - people say it is just like a dose of the flu, but the poor person doing cold turkey will do anything for a little bit of God. Those who try to kick their God addiction by tapering off by joining the Church of England fare just as badly. Just say no to God children.

See, that's the propaganda they tell you, and mentally you think it's just too difficult, you set yourself up for failure. By going into it with the attitude that you will deny yourself, which defaults the brain into 'wanting', you trigger the desire to acquiesce.

Imagine you're freeing yourself, imagine longing for freedom and getting that.

You'll be surprised how much 'cold turkey' is a mental issue not a physical one.

*sets up Quit Religion clinic*

Perhaps substituting religion can be seen as an addiction. But it's probably healthier to be addicted to Jeebus than to be addicted to meth.

At least meth gets you high. What do you get out of taking some Jeebus? Boring Sundays and less sex.

I've had a couple of acquaintances who've had alcohol and drug problems. Invariably, when they've managed to beat these problems, they've substituted something else for the addictive substance, usually religion. So it's not as if they've actually uncovered and confronted the underlying problem, they're just using another form of escape.

So, the question is, if alcoholism and drug addiction are "diseases," (or if you prefer, chemical imbalances that create a physiological environment that predispose one to chemical addiction) and the addict successfully overcomes the chemical addiction by subsituting religion, does that make religion an addiction and, therefore, a disease or a manifestation of disease?

Before the religious types get distressed, I'm not typifying all manifestations of religion as disease, only the hyperextreme evangelical types who aggressively push their religion (and if you've spent any time with a reformed addict who found God, you'll know what I mean). (Also, I won't argue whether substituting God for heroine is good or bad - I much prefer a God addict to a heroine addict).

When I stopped smoking crack, I started meth,when I stopped that I still abused prescription meds, when I stopped that I still smoked pot, when I stopped that I still drank, when I stopped that I still smoked, when I stopped that I patted myself on the back for being "vice-free" but was spending hours a day online (most of my post count was actually in 2006) I'm weening off the net.....I'm not sure what I'll replace it with.

It was well known in N.A. that if you stop one thing you have to add another.

Most of the people I know who have quit drugs did so by replacing it with either exercise or children.

Does that make physcial fitness or children an addiction, and therefore a disease?

hey if religion helps someone live a cleaner life who am I to discourage them.

But did you ever wonder why they began trying drugs ? Perhaps they were looking for more meaning to life. They didn't find it in the drugs so they are looking for more meaning in life via god.

on that note there are many other addiction replacements. former alcoholics for instance normally crave sugar in the middle of the night. This is because alcohol breaks down into sugar and they are replacing it.

I'm not sure what I'll replace it with.

Sex *nods*

Most of the people I know who have quit drugs did so by replacing it with either exercise or children.

Does that make physcial fitness or children an addiction, and therefore a disease?

It depends how on many children you smoke a day

It depends how on many children you smoke a day

I hear vapourisers are healthier.

Most of the people I know who have quit drugs did so by replacing it with either exercise or children.

Does that make physcial fitness or children an addiction, and therefore a disease?

No, the same as "heroin" or "alcohol" aren't addiction, but the condition of using it excessively and not being able to abstain at will is an addiction.

Physical fitness/children aren't an addiction per se, and pursuing/having them isn't, either, but when a person excessively and/or compulsively works out, or fusses over their kids, without being able to stop doing so when rationality would dictate it certainly would fall under the label of addiction.

No, the same as "heroin" or "alcohol" aren't addiction, but the condition of using it excessively and not being able to abstain at will is an addiction.

Physical fitness/children aren't an addiction per se, and pursuing/having them isn't, either, but when a person excessively and/or compulsively works out, or fusses over their kids, without being able to stop doing so when rationality would dictate it certainly would fall under the label of addiction.

In that case, I would then say that most of the people I know have overcome their drug addictions without replacing them with other addictions.

In that case, I would then say that most of the people I know have overcome their drug addictions without replacing them with other addictions.

That's good to hear, because while fitness addiction is surely bad for you, it needn't adversely affect anybody else - but with an unhealthily addictive relationship to your kids, especially if it's compensating for some other hole in your life, that's terrifyingly bad, both for you and your kids, and I wish it on none, especially no kid.

That's good to hear, because while fitness addiction is surely bad for you, it needn't adversely affect anybody else - but with an unhealthily addictive relationship to your kids, especially if it's compensating for some other hole in your life, that's terrifyingly bad, both for you and your kids, and I wish it on none, especially no kid.

you can work out too much. run every day to the point where you do little else including taking care of kids or going to work for instance.

Why are you anti-social darwinism? I just noticed what your name means.

Because social darwinism is a perversion of the original evolutionary hypothesis and is nothing more than an excuse to hate and oppress?

(Also, I won't argue whether substituting God for heroine is good or bad - I much prefer a God addict to a heroine addict).

I wouldnt. At least a heroine addict isnt constantly bugging me to join him in his next high or telling me Im going to be tortured forever if I dont.

I wouldnt. At least a heroine addict isnt constantly bugging me to join him in his next high or telling me Im going to be tortured forever if I dont.

No, the heroin addict is constantly bugging you for money to support his habit. And absent your giving him money, robbing you to support his habit. If you join him in his habit, he loses a source of income and may kill you to get your stash. Also, they tend not to bathe and to have communicable diseases.

The God addict may bug you for money and to join his addiction, but he/she won't steal from you, bathes and washes his/her clothes, doesn't prostitute him/herself to get money and has fewer communicable diseases

The God addict is a social problem.

The drug addict is a social and public health problem.

It is heroin people, a heroine addict is someone who like female heros.

It is heroin people, a heroine addict is someone who like female heros.

fixed

I don't think so. I'll put it this way. The part of the brain (I'm just going to focus on the Limbic System here) that is heavily associated with addiction (to drugs, for example) and regulation of pleasure, is similarly active and involved in the experience of love. Now, does that make love a disease? No. Does that make love an addiction? Well, yeah, sort of. In the sense that an individual is overtaken with thoughts and behaviors that seem relatively beyond their control - and especially in the sense that it shares a common mechanism with other addictions.

More to your point - just because two different activities both share common goals (e.g., escape from reality, pleasure, avoidance of pain) or even common mechanisms, that does not make them equal in all other respects. Love and religion don't tend to have the same negative effects on an individual's health and life that drugs do. I mean, at least I don't think people have lost their jobs and their families because the stayed out all night praying...

you can work out too much. run every day to the point where you do little else including taking care of kids or going to work for instance.

Yes. You'll notice I said "while fitness addiction is surely bad for you" etc. My point was that it is not inherent in the very condition that you also drag down other people because you can very well live your addicted fitness life on your own; you don't necessarily have a partner or kids. The thing with "kid addiction" is that it is inseparable from that condition that you hurt others, mistreat them, because that's what the addiction is about.

Yes. You'll notice I said "while fitness addiction is surely bad for you" etc. My point was that it is not inherent in the very condition that you also drag down other people because you can very well live your addicted fitness life on your own; you don't necessarily have a partner or kids. The thing with "kid addiction" is that it is inseparable from that condition that you hurt others, mistreat them, because that's what the addiction is about.

moderation of all things is the key.

i really don't believe, if we didn't live in a culture that told people it was immature to have an imagination, that people would ever feel compelled to turn to anesthasizing themselves recreationally by any means. i mean all recreationally consumed substances, and possibly such obsessions as fanatacism, are substitutes, and extremely poor ones, for persuing real gratification where there really is gratification to be found.

people are told, in order to exploit them, that gratification is to be found in excitement and trying to impress each other, and then when it begins to dawn on them the're not finding it there, many turn to the only excapes the simple minded have every been allowed to hear of, and that of course is recreationally imparement of their judgement.

too many people come to the conclusion, falsely, that there simply is no such thing as real gratification, no opportunity for it, but if they were to observe nature honestly, they would realize part of what the're missing, something that every sepecies of creature does, and that is explore, that's one half of gratifiction for humans. that's the gratification that is found in sex, at least for the relatively young.

but with humans, their uniqueness among the life forms of earth, is also their drive to express themselves creatively, and that is where the other half of human gratification is to be found.

really really the root of the whole problem, even going back to alcohaulism in victorian, edwardian, even the earliest of midevil times, even roman times and before, is this bussiness of repressing imagination, this big lie that it is something only for kids.

and of course the reason that lie is told, has been perpetuated for all these thousands of years, is so that always an inside few, can exploit everyone else, selling them beer or wiskey or haroin or what have you. and not just those doing that directly, but promoting emotional dependence on every other kind of thing. and yes even that all to often has included religeons too. though i wouldn't write belief off, real simple honest beliefs, like indiginous nature spirits and everyone's invisible friends that i believe everyone really does have, as that being the beggining and end of what the're really all about. i mean yes there's this bussiness of priesthoods exploiting everyone, just like roman beer makers, but that's more an exploitation of their beliefs too, and not what their revealers were all about at all.

also all mental issues ARE also physical issues, because the brain and the body DO interact, not just in perception of doing so.

but again the real solution is not in ANY kind of arbitraryness, but in the natural love of and need for straingeness, to explore, and be inspiered to create by.

Some of addiction is situated around behaviour. Taking up religion by going to church instead of the back alley can help you beat drugs. That being said sport, employement or any other group thing could do the same.