NationStates Jolt Archive

In April of 1999, one of the worse American High School shooting took place, Columbine. It was a shooting done by two teenagers who killed 12 students and a teacher, wounding several others. Columbine sent a wave of fear and paranoia throughout the country as schools upped security measures. While most of us aren't dicks and wouldn't take such a horrible tragedy and use it for our own personal gain, one church here did.

I remember, a few Halloweens ago, I went to this Haunted Trail thing, and I thought it was going to be a good one, however I soon learned it was run by a church. I wanted to leave, because I knew it was going to suck, but my friends thought it would be fun. They were wrong. The whole thing was Christian Propaganda about how Abortion, Gays, Muslim and Pagans are going to Hell unless we save them.

However, one scene stood out in my mind, which was a recreation of one part of the Columbine School Shooting. The scene started out with a news cast, talking about Prayer being taken out of school. The next scene portrayed Cassie Bernall and Eric Harris at the school's library. Eric ask Cassie if she believed in God, she said "Yes" and she was shot.

Yea...I'm sorry but that exchanged never took place. Official investigation into the school shooting revealed that this is what really happened.

However, the official investigation into the shootings concluded that Bernall did not have the exchange....When investigators took him back to the scene he indicated that the voice had not come from the area where Bernall had been located. Emily Wyant, who had been sitting with Bernall in the library as the shootings began, asserted that the exchange did not take place....Wyant stated that she and Bernall were studying together when the gunmen broke in. According to her account Bernall exclaimed, "Dear God, dear God! Why is this happening? I just want to go home." Wyant described how Eric Harris suddenly slammed his hand onto the table top and yelled "Peek-a-boo!" before fatally shooting Cassie Bernall.

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall)

Normally I just ignore propaganda from the churches in my neck of the wood, but when they use a tragedy like Columbine, and they put words in a mouth of someone who can't correct them, well that just take dickish to a whole new level.

So has anyone else experience such blatant propaganda that pretty much piss on the memory of someone, or something?

A church? Exploiting tragedies and emotions to spread propaganda and lies for their own gain? You sir are a dirty liar!

how dare the church take the central saints of my religion and use them for their own purposes I am going to sue i tell you.

This is old news. Really old news.

This is old news. Really old news.

Indeed. However it lets me attack churches, so I intend to take advantage of it.

I want to thank you for this thread. It frustrates me when people retell this false legend. But it's not just that one instance that it's been used. Bernall's own mother wrote a book entitled "She Said Yes" about her daughter, the shooting, and the girl's religion. It's been used to say that the shooters were motivated by a hatred of Christianity, and as evidence of mainstream bigotry against Christians.

I'm sick of it.

This is old news. Really old news.

Yea, well I just saw a special on Halloween on The History Channel, and that special talked about how the Churches now use Halloween to spread their message, and I remember back to my experience on that.

Yea, well I just saw a special on Halloween on The History Channel, and that special talked about how the Churches now use Halloween to spread their message, and I remember back to my experience on that.

I use Halloween to offend Christians as much as possible.

I want to thank you for this thread. It frustrates me when people retell this false legend. But it's not just that one instance that it's been used. Bernall's own mother wrote a book entitled "She Said Yes" about her daughter, the shooting, and the girl's religion. It's been used to say that the shooters were motivated by a hatred of Christianity, and as evidence of mainstream bigotry against Christians.

I'm sick of it.

So far I don't think they actually pin-pointed a caused as to why Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did the shooting. I've heard theories, their hatred of Christianity being one of them, but nothings solid.

I use Halloween to offend Christians as much as possible.

How do you do that?

I remember, a few Halloweens ago, I went to this Haunted Trail thing, and I thought it was going to be a good one, however I soon learned it was run by a church. I wanted to leave, because I knew it was going to suck, but my friends thought it would be fun. They were wrong. The whole thing was Christian Propaganda about how Abortion, Gays, Muslim and Pagans are going to Hell unless we save them.
There's nothing wrong with that, provided it is done with lots of gore. I lived around the ass-end of Hickwoods, Virginia when I was growing up, so the only haunted houses/trails were Christian-themed ones.
The Psychotic Abortionist is still one of my favorite characters, right up there with the time one had a real guy drenched in (what I hope was) fake blood hanging up on a cross screaming his nuts off.
Yea...I'm sorry but that exchanged never took place. Official investigation into the school shooting revealed that this is what really happened.

Normally I just ignore propaganda from the churches in my neck of the wood, but when they use a tragedy like Columbine, and they put words in a mouth of someone who can't correct them, well that just take dickish to a whole new level.
How many folk heroes really said the things that are attributed to them? Is it pissing on Che Guevara's memory when someone says his last words were: "I know you are here to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."

How do you do that?

Going to Salem and generally celebrating the holiday is usually enough.

I imagine this was an evangelical church of some type?

I'm a Christian, but I'm a good o'l fashion Lutheran... (Ironic, considering I'm ethnically Jewish and Luther wrote lots of mean things about the Jews)... Regardless, we tend not to do that sort of propoganda thing... We spend our time actually examining theology as to maintain a clear doctrine, something many evangelical churches lack.

So far I don't think they actually pin-pointed a caused as to why Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did the shooting. I've heard theories, their hatred of Christianity being one of them, but nothings solid.

Them hating Christianity is the most absurd and unfounded reason.

They were slightly disturbed and were picked on every waking moment. I dont understand why their motives are a mystery for anyone.

How do you do that?

In my youth (ok, Im in my very early 20s, Im still techinically in my youth, so when I was in High School) I vandalized a church with my buddies Halloween night. Inverted all their crosses that we could, caused very minor property damage, wrote "Hail Satan!" and "666" on various places around the grounds and stuff like that.

Now Im just a dick to anyone who hands out bibles on Halloween or preaches at the center of campus or stuff like that.

There's nothing wrong with that, provided it is done with lots of gore. I lived around the ass-end of Hickwoods, Virginia when I was growing up, so the only haunted houses/trails were Christian-themed ones.
The Psychotic Abortionist is still one of my favorite characters, right up there with the time one had a real guy drenched in (what I hope was) fake blood hanging up on a cross screaming his nuts off.

How many folk heroes really said the things that are attributed to them? Is it pissing on Che Guevara's memory when someone says his last words were: "I know you are here to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."

I don't know, but if CHe Guevara came back to life, the first people he'd shoot are people selling Che Guevara t-shirts. :p

How many folk heroes really said the things that are attributed to them? Is it pissing on Che Guevara's memory when someone says his last words were: "I know you are here to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."

No, but I doubt anyone is using what is attributed to Che Guevara is using it to push their own political/religious/personal agenda. To put something in someone's mouth and then take that and use it to your own advantage, especially if the person is dead. Well, that just seems dickish to me, but maybe that's just me.

So has anyone else experience such blatant propaganda that pretty much piss on the memory of someone, or something?

Ya I think they did this to Jesus

I use Halloween to offend Christians as much as possible.
How rebellious, in a conformist sort of way.

How rebellious, in a conformist sort of way.

I detest Christians that preach to me how Im going to hell, what can I say?

I imagine this was an evangelical church of some type?

Well since I am in the heart of Southern Baptist country, I am going to have to go with Southern Baptist. They are notorious for this kind of propaganda.

I detest Christians that preach to me how Im going to hell, what can I say?

Would you rather a Jew or Muslim do it?

So far I don't think they actually pin-pointed a caused as to why Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did the shooting. I've heard theories, their hatred of Christianity being one of them, but nothings solid.

Cause they wanted to kill people kinda makes sence.

Would you rather a Jew or Muslim do it?

Not at all, they just tend to do it far less, and when they do do it, they dont go out of their way to be offensive and obnoxious.

I detest Christians that preach to me how Im going to hell, what can I say?

One time a Southern Baptist was doing the whole "You're going to Hell..." bit, so I just started passing out pieces of paper with this Bible quote on it.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

That shut him up pretty quick. :D

Would you rather a Jew or Muslim do it?

No, they'd probably kill you instead. ;)

No, they'd probably kill you instead. ;)

Well at least the death won't be as annoying or obnoxious.

No, they'd probably kill you instead. ;)

Or kvetch and guilt trip you about how you'll miss them when they're dead, and is it really so much to ask for a grandchild?

Well since I am in the heart of Southern Baptist country, I am going to have to go with Southern Baptist. They are notorious for this kind of propaganda.

Well, I live in Southern Baptist country too and have for most of my life (except the first 9 years of my life and my undergrad years) and I have yet to see something that crazy.

Then again, I prefered to "sew the seeds of chaos" with a few of my friends on Halloween rather than hang out at any Church (my Church didn't do anything for Halloween). Now a-days, I generally teach my class dressed in a costume of some sort and go out drinking with some friends at night.

Would you rather a Jew or Muslim do it?

It'd be hilarious to see a Jew preach that, they don't have a Hell.

Or kvetch and guilt trip you about how you'll miss them when they're dead, and is it really so much to ask for a grandchild?

:eek: The horror! The horror!

As for me, I don't go out of my way to poop on religion. I do get mildly annoyed when a devout busybody goes off on a 'Halloween is satanic' riff, but I simply question them as to what exactly it is about children having fun and being entertained that is so darn satanic. They never seem to have a satisfactory answer to that.

:eek: The horror! The horror!

As for me, I don't go out of my way to poop on religion. I do get mildly annoyed when a devout busybody goes off on a 'Halloween is satanic' riff, but I simply question them as to what exactly it is about children having fun and being entertained that is so darn satanic. They never seem to have a satisfactory answer to that.

Well to be fair, the Pagan Holiday, Samhain, is on Halloween. Maybe that's what they're afraid of?

Would you rather a Jew or Muslim do it?

No, I'd rather they were all dead.

No, I'd rather they were all dead.

*sigh* and this thread is now officially derailed....

Thank you....Thank you very much..... :mad:

Well to be fair, the Pagan Holiday, Samhain, is on Halloween. Maybe that's what they're afraid of?

SO afraid of it, they created 'All Souls Day' to preempt it. ;)

SO afraid of it, they created 'All Souls Day' to preempt it. ;)

That failed....horribly.

"All Souls Day" failed so horrible, it was an Epic Fail.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-07-09-epicfail.jpg

It'd be hilarious to see a Jew preach that, they don't have a Hell.

Uh, yeah they do... I'm ethincally Jewish and most of my family's friends are practicing Jews. Unless you talk to Reform Jews, Jews believe in a hell... Just not an eternal hell. Most practicing Jews I know believe in a temporary hell to atone for sins (like the Roman Catholic Purgatory) but then you get to go to heaven.

As for me, I may be ethnically Jewish, but I'm a Christian... I believe in eternal hell but the Bible says for me not to judge those outside the Church, so I do not. God will decide if anyone burns in hell, not me.

:eek: The horror! The horror!

As for me, I don't go out of my way to poop on religion. I do get mildly annoyed when a devout busybody goes off on a 'Halloween is satanic' riff, but I simply question them as to what exactly it is about children having fun and being entertained that is so darn satanic. They never seem to have a satisfactory answer to that.

I'm a Christian and I agree with you there... I can't find anything in the Bible that says children having fun and collecting candy is sinful.

Going to Salem and generally celebrating the holiday is usually enough.

Salem is overrated nowadays. It's turned into a bunch of tourist-y bullshit.

Salem is overrated nowadays. It's turned into a bunch of tourist-y bullshit.

definatly true...I went last year for halloween and was miserable the entire time. I still love the pirate museum though. I have a friend who lives up there, so it's nice to go chill for a while and play.

So has anyone else experience such blatant propaganda that pretty much piss on the memory of someone, or something?
From here on: http://somethingpositive.net/sp10042006.shtml

From here on: http://somethingpositive.net/sp10042006.shtml

If you can't convince them to believe, scare them into believing. That's why Hell is one of the center pieces of Christianity teaching.

That failed....horribly.

"All Souls Day" failed so horrible, it was an Epic Fail.

Because there are so many wiccans out there...

Because there are so many wiccans out there...

How many Christians do you think we'd have if the sentence of eternal damnation wasn't hanging over their head if they step out of line?

http://www.realityministriesinc.org/

^it's horrible really.

http://www.realityministriesinc.org/

^it's horrible really.

How is it horrible exactly?

How is it horrible exactly?

You know, because it's Christians and they're like talking to people and they like invite people to come to their church and the people like choose to and when they like get there they are subjected to like Christian things and Christian people and stuff.

You know, because it's Christians and they're like talking to people and they like invite people to come to their church and the people like choose to and when they like get there they are subjected to like Christian things and Christian people and stuff.

*roll eyes*

Ok, let's say one of your children was shot in a school shooting, and someone started claiming that your child said something that was later found out (s)he never said. However, by the time that news come out, a group of people already taken what was attributed to her/him, and started using that to push their own agenda forward.

You have no problem with that?

Personally if it was my child, I would tell them to stop, because they're basically abusing the memory of my child and are basically being dicks.

*roll eyes*

Ok, let's say one of your children was shot in a school shooting, and someone started claiming that your child said something that was later found out (s)he never said. However, by the time that news come out, a group of people already taken what was attributed to her/him, and started using that to push their own agenda forward.

You have no problem with that?

Personally if it was my child, I would tell them to stop, because they're basically abusing the memory of my child and are basically being dicks.

It's a dramatization of a made up event, the fact that it somehow mirrors something that might really happen is kinda the point....what about all the parents of gay kids? or the women who have gotten abortions or the families of people who died in car wrecks?

OMG! You know that one movie where that guy traps that other person in a bear trap and they have to saw off their own leg?!? Well my uncle got his foot caught in a trap before so that's totally fucking uncool for them to use that, so like they should stop because they are abusing my uncle's memory.

*sigh*

You know, it's really annoying when people continually miss the point.

It's a dramatization of a made up event, the fact that it somehow mirrors something that might really happen is kinda the point....

Well, that a relief, and here I thought Columbine actually happened. So where are the 12 "victims" hiding? Area 51 or 52?

what about all the parents of gay kids? or the women who have gotten abortions or the families of people who died in car wrecks?

So far, except in the case of Matthew Shepard, they don't use real names.

OMG! You know that one movie where that guy traps that other person in a bear trap and they have to saw off their own leg?!? Well my uncle got his foot caught in a trap before so that's totally fucking uncool for them to use that, so like they should stop because they are abusing my uncle's memory.

Did they use your uncle name, likeness, did they attribute something to your uncle that wasn't actually said? Why did they use your uncle, was it for entertainment, or did they do it to push their own agenda?

The message itself, I can ignore, it's just that when they spread their message, they degrade the memory of the dead. I don't know about you, but I believe in honoring the dead. Honoring the dead means, not using them for your own political/religious/personal agenda.

The message itself, I can ignore, it's just that when they spread their message, they degrade the memory of the dead. I don't know about you, but I believe in honoring the dead. Honoring the dead means, not using them for your own political/religious/personal agenda.
You should totally copy/paste this and email it to her parents. I'm totally sure the email address is somewhere on their website (http://www.cassierenebernall.org/).


As far as my "belief" dead people are dead, living people are living.

You should totally copy/paste this and email it to her parents. I'm totally sure the email address is somewhere on their website (http://www.cassierenebernall.org/).

Done and done.

How many Christians do you think we'd have if the sentence of eternal damnation wasn't hanging over their head if they step out of line?

So it would seem that the efforts of early Christians to co-op other religions was rather successful.

So it would seem that the efforts of early Christians to co-op other religions was rather successful.

You didn't answer my question.

If you can't convince them to believe, scare them into believing. That's why Hell is one of the center pieces of Christianity teaching.
Funny, and here I thought it was love.

How many Christians do you think we'd have if the sentence of eternal damnation wasn't hanging over their head if they step out of line?
Ya know, I hear this line a lot and honestly, unless you can somehow show otherwise, I'm calling it for what it is, a rhetorical piece of bullshit.

Yea, well I just saw a special on Halloween on The History Channel, and that special talked about how the Churches now use Halloween to spread their message, and I remember back to my experience on that.

Fuck Wilgrove plese tell me you are serious, how dare a church use a religious day for themselves next you will be telling me that you hate how churches have Christmas masses on Christmas day.

In my youth (ok, Im in my very early 20s, Im still techinically in my youth, so when I was in High School) I vandalized a church with my buddies Halloween night. Inverted all their crosses that we could, caused very minor property damage, wrote "Hail Satan!" and "666" on various places around the grounds and stuff like that.

Now Im just a dick to anyone who hands out bibles on Halloween or preaches at the center of campus or stuff like that.

Why does this say so much about you?

It's one thing to not like Christians and to speak out aginst them but another to go around destroying other peoples property. But then I know if people wrecked your house because they didn't like your beliefs you would be fine with that.

Fuck Wilgrove plese tell me you are serious, how dare a church use a religious day for themselves next you will be telling me that you hate how churches have Christmas masses on Christmas day.

Oh for the love of all that is Holy.....

Ok, you know what, if you're not getting the point as to why I'm objecting to this church using the tragedy that is Columbine, and putting the words in the mouth of someone who never said those words, and using that to push your own agenda, then you need reading comprehension classes.

I'm sure your town has a local learning annex.

Oh for the love of all that is Holy.....

Ok, you know what, if you're not getting the point as to why I'm objecting to this church using the tragedy that is Columbine, and putting the words in the mouth of someone who never said those words, and using that to push your own agenda, then you need reading comprehension classes.

I'm sure your town has a local learning annex.

I know what your point is and to some extent I agree with you, however I was referring specifically to the post I quoted.

You didn't answer my question.

because your question was pointless, and not relevant to my statement.

Why does this say so much about you?

It's one thing to not like Christians and to speak out aginst them but another to go around destroying other peoples property. But then I know if people wrecked your house because they didn't like your beliefs you would be fine with that.

Turning crosses upside down and writing "HAIL SATAN" and "666" on the grass around the church is "destroying poperty"?

Get over yourself. I was 16 and it was a prank. Its just as annoying as having this nuts yell at me from a street corner telling me their imaginary friend hates me.

Turning crosses upside down and writing "HAIL SATAN" and "666" on the grass around the church is "destroying poperty"?

Get over yourself. I was 16 and it was a prank. Its just as annoying as having this nuts yell at me from a street corner telling me their imaginary friend hates me.

Yes. Yes it is. It's willfully vandalizing that which you didn't (then) have the intellectual capacity to confront honestly. You can't convincingly tell me you'd be fine with believers writing "sinner" or "BOUND for the Lake of Fire" on your house. It's really easy to tune out religious looney-tunes. It's another thing to have to clean up vandalism or graffiti. It's you who need to get over yourself.

Yes. Yes it is. It's willfully vandalizing that which you didn't (then) have the intellectual capacity to confront honestly. You can't convincingly tell me you'd be fine with believers writing "sinner" or "BOUND for the Lake of Fire" on your house. It's really easy to tune out religious looney-tunes. It's another thing to have to clean up vandalism or graffiti. It's you who need to get over yourself.

Except I didnt write it on the building. I wrote it on the fucking grass.


Really, if someone wrote that stuff in silly string on the grass of my house, Id just roll my eyes and move on.

Ive had my friends write worse stuff with silly string in my grass.


No property damage, not vandalism. Not like it costs them anything. If you guys want to turn it into something worse then it was, say so now, so I can just ignore all of it, makes my life easier.

But you know, Im sure none of you ever committed a prank as a highschooler. Shut the fuck up.

No, but I doubt anyone is using what is attributed to Che Guevara is using it to push their own political/religious/personal agenda. To put something in someone's mouth and then take that and use it to your own advantage, especially if the person is dead. Well, that just seems dickish to me, but maybe that's just me.
It is possible that Che's last words were, "I am Che Guevara and I have failed," but that really doesn't paint a good picture for future revolutionaries to live up to, does it? On the other hand having him say the person killing him is killing "only a man" emphasizes both Che's sheer ballsiness, and the fact that he and his ideas haven't failed, but live on.
In this case, it is possible that Cassie's last words were, "Dear God, dear God! Why is this happening? I just want to go home," but that is really fucking lame. Having her hold to her faith even as a gun is thrust in her face makes her a martyr; it helps make her death a little less senseless (it might be worth noting that Cassie's mother wrote a book about her daughter's faith, hinging on the fact that she said, "Yes").

Except I didnt write it on the building. I wrote it on the fucking grass.

Really, if someone wrote that stuff in silly string on the grass of my house, Id just roll my eyes and move on.

Ive had my friends write worse stuff with silly string in my grass.


No property damage, not vandalism. Not like it costs them anything.

It costs them the time to clean it up, and did you forget about inverting their crosses?

You can say you'd roll your eyes all you want, but it's simply conjecture. I can try that, too: I'll bet you'd think about who did it for at least a couple of days.

Turning crosses upside down and writing "HAIL SATAN" and "666" on the grass around the church is "destroying poperty"?
No, but it is really fucking childish, infantile even.

It costs them the time to clean it up, and did you forget about inverting their crosses?

You can say you'd roll your eyes all you want, but it's simply conjecture. I can try that, too: I'll bet you'd think about who did it for at least a couple of days.

It takes a lot of effort to just push the cross on the wall back up right?

If you want to keep going with this, tell me, and Ill throw you on my ignore list. Youre trying to pick a fight when there is nothing to pick one over.

No, but it is really fucking childish, infantile even.

Yes well, 15 (or 16, cant remember how old I as) year olds arent known for their maturity, are they?:rolleyes:


Because, again, Im sure all of you were mature little saints in high school.

Yes well, 15 (or 16, cant remember how old I as) year olds arent known for their maturity, are they?:rolleyes:

Because, again, Im sure all of you were mature little saints in high school.

I never inverted a church's crosses, if that's what you mean.

The fact that you're still defending your actions then is the thing I'm noticing, but that's your karma, not mine. I'll leave you to it.

Except I didnt write it on the building. I wrote it on the fucking grass.


Really, if someone wrote that stuff in silly string on the grass of my house, Id just roll my eyes and move on.

Ive had my friends write worse stuff with silly string in my grass.


No property damage, not vandalism. Not like it costs them anything. If you guys want to turn it into something worse then it was, say so now, so I can just ignore all of it, makes my life easier.

But you know, Im sure none of you ever committed a prank as a highschooler. Shut the fuck up.
Pranks? Yes. Hate crimes? No.

It is possible that Che's last words were, "I am Che Guevara and I have failed," but that really doesn't paint a good picture for future revolutionaries to live up to, does it? On the other hand having him say the person killing him is killing "only a man" emphasizes both Che's sheer ballsiness, and the fact that he and his ideas haven't failed, but live on.
In this case, it is possible that Cassie's last words were, "Dear God, dear God! Why is this happening? I just want to go home," but that is really fucking lame. Having her hold to her faith even as a gun is thrust in her face makes her a martyr; it helps make her death a little less senseless (it might be worth noting that Cassie's mother wrote a book about her daughter's faith, hinging on the fact that she said, "Yes").

People should be martyrs because they did something awesome in death, or in life. Not because someone attributed something to them that they didn't actually said.

As for the mother, she's living in a world of self delusion and she's exploiting her daughter's death because of her self delusion. So I don't know whether to call her a bitch or send her to a mental hospital.

As for her death, well I'm sorry but she was killed in a school shooting because two guys snapped. It was pointless and it was senseless. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I never inverted a church's crosses, if that's what you mean.


Good for you. I guess I really should feel bad. Those few seconds it would have taken them to push them back upright with their index finger...

The fact that you're still defending your actions then is the thing I'm noticing, but that's your karma, not mine. I'll leave you to it.

Im defending my actions because some of you are being idiots. Again, Im sure you all were sophisticated, mature, little saints in high school.

One more time, you want to keep going with this?

Because, again, Im sure all of you were mature little saints in high school.

Maybe not particularly mature on some absolute scale, but I was mature enough not to pull a dick move like that.

Good for you. I guess I really should feel bad. Those few seconds it would have taken them to push them back upright with their index finger...



Im defending my actions because some of you are being idiots. Again, Im sure you all were sophisticated, mature, little saints in high school.

One more time, you want to keep going with this?

I said I was done.

Pranks? Yes. Hate crimes? No.

Hate Crimes? Oh sheesh. I cant decide if thats funny or just utterly stupid.

Hate Crimes? Oh sheesh. I cant decide if thats funny or just utterly stupid

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. You're gonna ignore Her Smunkness for that?

And nine years later this is remotely interesting how?

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. You're gonna ignore Her Smunkness for that?

No, its for a number of things, and Smunkee being consistantly unbearable. Her tendency to argue with strawmen rather than whats really being said is the most annoying.

And nine years later this is remotely interesting how?

For the same reason that 9/11 is still interesting, seven years later?

No, its for a number of things, and Smunkee being consistantly unbearable. Her tendency to argue with strawmen rather than whats really being said is the most annoying.

If that were a good reason to ignore, there'd be a hell of a lot fewer posts herein. I'd suggest polite sparring, but that's me.

Could their be grounds for suing the Church in question here?

And nine years later this is remotely interesting how?

The lens of history needs sufficient distance to focus properly.

Hate Crimes? Oh sheesh. I cant decide if thats funny or just utterly stupid.
Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1]
Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters
No, its for a number of things, and Smunkee being consistantly unbearable. Her tendency to argue with strawmen rather than whats really being said is the most annoying.
Interesting.

If that were a good reason to ignore, there'd be a hell of a lot fewer posts herein. I'd suggest polite sparring, but that's me.

When its so often as to probably be deliberate, I lose my patients for it.

Interesting.

Yep, except what we did wasnt criminal. The church was open that night, we used silly string. No property damage. No breaking and entering.

When its so often as to probably be deliberate, I lose my patients for it.

You lose your patients for it? Who knew the AMA was so intrusive!

Could their be grounds for suing the Church in question here?

Wilgrove has no standing to sue them.

The family of the girl likely wouldn't sue since they propagate the story themselves.

Yep, except what we did wasnt criminal. The church was open that night, we used silly string. No property damage. No breaking and entering.

You missed the part about offensive graffiti then?

People should be martyrs because they did something awesome in death, or in life. Not because someone attributed something to them that they didn't actually said.
Then I expect you are also outraged by history books that contain speeches which people never gave?
As for the mother, she's living in a world of self delusion and she's exploiting her daughter's death because of her self delusion. So I don't know whether to call her a bitch or send her to a mental hospital.
People are only sent to mental hospitals if they are a danger to themselves or others. As I see it, the mother is doing well enough with her life and not endangering anyone.
As for her death, well I'm sorry but she was killed in a school shooting because two guys snapped. It was pointless and it was senseless. Sorry, but that's the truth.
That's what you want the truth to be because you're a wretched, small-minded person, who's intimidated by big, bad religion.

That's what you want the truth to be because you're a wretched, small-minded person, who's intimidated by big, bad religion.

The fact that the shooters snapped and shot up a high school is only the truth if youre a wretched, small minded person?


What then, pray tell, is the "truth" here?

Yep, except what we did wasnt criminal. The church was open that night, we used silly string. No property damage. No breaking and entering.

Check your jurisdiction's Malicious Mischief laws. Where I am, the definition includes this phrase: "reckless or malicious behavior that causes discomfort or annoyance in others".

WILGROVE: How is a mother trying to make sense of her daughter's murder in any way harmful to you? Is it the absolute truth? It seldom is in situations like this. But why deny a harmless (and you've yet to prove any harm) attempt to make some good out of a senseless tragedy?

EDIT: From reading the countless self-indulgent and woefully misinformed threads you've started here, if willful ignorance of the objective truth were a crime, you'd be institutionalized yourself.

Check your jurisdiction's Malicious Mischief laws. Where I am, the definition includes this phrase: "reckless or malicious behavior that causes discomfort or annoyance in others".

Well then by that logic a crazy Christian preaching on the street corner is also guilty of this exact same crime.

Then I expect you are also outraged by history books that contain speeches which people never gave?

The history books would lose credibility with me, yes.

People are only sent to mental hospitals if they are a danger to themselves or others. As I see it, the mother is doing well enough with her life and not endangering anyone.

Then she's a bitch for exploiting her daughter's death.

That's what you want the truth to be because you're a wretched, small-minded person, who's intimidated by big, bad religion.

So, knowing that she actually never died because she believes in God, then what was the point of her death then?

Well then by that logic a crazy Christian preaching on the street corner is also guilty of this exact same crime.

Save for the First Amendment to the Constitution, perhaps.

So, knowing that she actually never died because she believes in God, then what was the point of her death then?

Apperantly, unless we believe Columbine was only done to kill Christians, rather then the act of two disturbed lonley kids who were bullied maliciously every waking moment of their lives, and then finally snapped, we are "petty, small minded people".


I didnt know I was small minded for refusing to acknowledge or buy into the Christian Persecution Complex.

Apperantly, unless we believe Columbine was only done to kill Christians, rather then the act of two disturbed lonley kids who were bullied maliciously every waking moment of their lives, and then finally snapped, we are "petty, small minded people".

I didnt know I was small minded for refusing to acknowledge or buy into the Christian Persecution Complex.

You've no need to convince me of the fallacy that is Christians claiming persecution. On that we agree.

You've no need to convince me of the fallacy that is Christians claiming persecution. On that we agree.

Except that wasnt directed at you.

WILGROVE: How is a mother trying to make sense of her daughter's murder in any way harmful to you? Is it the absolute truth? It seldom is in situations like this. But why deny a harmless (and you've yet to prove any harm) attempt to make some good out of a senseless tragedy?

Not everything is going to make sense, not everything is going to have meaning. Sometimes people die senselessly. Her daughter died senselessly, and her mother needs to deal with that sooner or later. She didn't die because the shooters were pro-abortion, gay loving satanist. She didn't die because she believed in God. She died because two boys were picked on, day in and day out. Till one day, they snapped, decided that enough was enough, and started shooting.

EDIT: From reading the countless self-indulgent and woefully misinformed threads you've started here, if willful ignorance of the objective truth were a crime, you'd be institutionalized yourself.

So, because I refuse to let people live in the self delusion that a woman was shot because of her faith, I'm the willfully ignorant one? I'm the one who should be institutionalized? Did I step into Bizzaro world?

The history books would lose credibility with me, yes.
I don't think you properly understand, ALL histories do this. Basically, you've just given up any belief in time before the 19th/20th century.
Then she's a bitch for exploiting her daughter's death.
Why? It was her daughter, and the rest of her family seems fine with it, so why shouldn't she exploit it? You and I've got less than zero claim to her daughter's memory or the way it may be used, interpreted or told.
So, knowing that she actually never died because she believes in God, then what was the point of her death then?
I just told you. Making her last word a defiant proclamation of faith means she had a choice in the way she went. It empowers her, it helped her mother cope, and maybe it inspired a few people in their faith.
It also inspired the Flyleaf song "Cassie," and that's a pretty good song.

I don't think you properly understand, ALL histories do this. Basically, you've just given up any belief in time before the 19th/20th century.

Why? It was her daughter, and the rest of her family seems fine with it, so why shouldn't she exploit it? You and I've got less than zero claim to her daughter's memory or the way it may be used, interpreted or told.

I just told you. Making her last word a defiant proclamation of faith means she had a choice in the way she went. It empowers her, it helped her mother cope, and maybe it inspired a few people in their faith.
It also inspired the Flyleaf song "Cassie," and that's a pretty good song.

I still am waiting for an answer:

Apperantly, unless we believe Columbine was only done to kill Christians, rather then the act of two disturbed lonley kids who were bullied maliciously every waking moment of their lives, and then finally snapped, we are "petty, small minded people".


I didnt know I was small minded for refusing to acknowledge or buy into the Christian Persecution Complex.



The fact that the shooters snapped and shot up a high school is only the truth if youre a wretched, small minded person?


What then, pray tell, is the "truth" here?

Not everything is going to make sense, not everything is going to have meaning. Sometimes people die senselessly. Her daughter died senselessly, and her mother needs to deal with that sooner or later. She didn't die because the shooters were pro-abortion, gay loving satanist. She didn't die because she believed in God. She died because two boys were picked on, day in and day out. Till one day, they snapped, decided that enough was enough, and started shooting.

Where did she say that?

Perhaps the mother HAS dealt with it, and this crusade (pun intended) is her way of doing something. Some people need to take action, Willy. So long as she's not harming anyone, and I've not seen any evidence of that, where's the problem? It's senseless that children die in accidents -- does that mean taking steps to prevent like accidents is bad? This woman will eventually fade into the detritus of the rest of the sad history of this event. That is, unless people decide to keep bringing her up.

So, because I refuse to let people live in the self delusion that a woman was shot because of her faith, I'm the willfully ignorant one? I'm the one who should be institutionalized? Did I step into Bizzaro world?

"You refuse"? Who died and appointed you Supreme Arbiter of who is or is not self-delusional? Who here was walking around in a haze of misbelief about this woman and her cause? It seems to me that it just irritates YOU, and so, like so many times before, YOU take it upon yourself to bring your irritation to NSG. Seems to me you should be asking yourself who these threads are really for.

Except that wasnt directed at you.

Perhaps not, but it was such an irrational post, I felt the need to address it as if it were.

Turning crosses upside down and writing "HAIL SATAN" and "666" on the grass around the church is "destroying poperty"?

Get over yourself. I was 16 and it was a prank. Its just as annoying as having this nuts yell at me from a street corner telling me their imaginary friend hates me.

Well considering your post said that you "vandalised the place and caused minor property damage" well I would say property dmage is destroying property, the fact that it may not have cost them much to fix and may not have taken very little time still does not excuse your actions and make it alright. But as I say this little prank as you like to call it still says so much about you.

But you know, Im sure none of you ever committed a prank as a highschooler. Shut the fuck up.

Actually no I didn't commit a prank like this in highschool, sure I committed pranks but not like this. But then that doesn't make it any better, just because some people killed other people makes it alright for me to kill people as well then.

I don't think you properly understand, ALL histories do this. Basically, you've just given up any belief in time before the 19th/20th century.

Well, that is true. But nowanddays, thanks to our steller recording keeping, and excellent exchange of information, ignorant of facts is becoming less and less of an excuse.

Why? It was her daughter, and the rest of her family seems fine with it, so why shouldn't she exploit it? You and I've got less than zero claim to her daughter's memory or the way it may be used, interpreted or told.

Because it's disrespecting her memory, and it's disrespecting the dead.

I just told you. Making her last word a defiant proclamation of faith means she had a choice in the way she went. It empowers her, it helped her mother cope, and maybe it inspired a few people in their faith.
It also inspired the Flyleaf song "Cassie," and that's a pretty good song.

Except, she never made such proclamation. Her last words were "Dear God, dear God! Why is this happening? I just want to go home."

Hardly a proclamation of faith. The best way for her mother to cope is to realize the truth. That her daughter did died senselessly, that her daughter died because of other people's actions. That her daughter died because two boys who were mentally unstable snapped after being picked on day in and day out in High School.

It's better to inspire people with real words, with real actions, instead of made up one. Because people will discover the truth sooner or later, and they'll realize that she wasn't so heroic, she didn't die because she proclaimed her faith, and that will degrade her memory even more.

Perhaps not, but it was such an irrational post, I felt the need to address it as if it were.

Irrational? Really? There is the fact that Fiddlebottoms essentially said that denying that Columbine was about killing Christians (whether thats what he meant or not, I want him to clarify) made one a "wretched, small minded person". But dont let that get in your way.

You know, there are people here who I thought had it together who are totally coming apart imo right now.

Because it's disrespecting her memory, and it's disrespecting the dead.

Says you, someone who has less than no stake in the matter.

It's better to inspire people with real words, with real actions, instead of made up one. Because people will discover the truth sooner or later, and they'll realize that she wasn't so heroic, she didn't die because she proclaimed her faith, and that will degrade her memory even more.

Again, says you. Also, history disagrees and is littered with inspirational phrases and deeds attributed to people who did or said no such things. Something tells me there's more to this than a simple "crusade for truth" for you.

Here:


As for her death, well I'm sorry but she was killed in a school shooting because two guys snapped. It was pointless and it was senseless. Sorry, but that's the truth.

That's what you want the truth to be because you're a wretched, small-minded person, who's intimidated by big, bad religion.

So, its pretty easy to see were Im drawing my conclusions as to his intent from, especially considering th very...hostile tone of most people in this thread.

Irrational? Really? There is the fact that Fiddlebottoms essentially said that denying that Columbine was about killing Christians (whether thats what he meant or not, I want him to clarify) made one a "wretched, small minded person". But dont let that get in your way.

You know, there are people here who I thought had it together who are totally coming apart imo right now.

I really can't see that connection. I read that line as being more about the needless needling of a woman looking to give meaning to her daughter's death.

But something has just occurred to me: neither you nor Wilgrove have children. I tell you what. When you both have had kids, let's revisit this whole notion and apply the supposition of murder to them, and see how you'd choose, hypothetically, to deal with it. Until then (and I won't hold my breath, I know it's subject to more probability than the Heart of Gold), I think I'm done here.

Agree to disagree on my end, chaps.

So, its pretty easy to see were Im drawing my conclusions as to his intent from, especially considering th very...hostile tone of most people in this thread.

Fair enough. Though if that "hostile" bit applies to me, I object...with great hostility!

Where did she say that?

Perhaps the mother HAS dealt with it, and this crusade (pun intended) is her way of doing something. Some people need to take action, Willy. So long as she's not harming anyone, and I've not seen any evidence of that, where's the problem? It's senseless that children die in accidents -- does that mean taking steps to prevent like accidents is bad? This woman will eventually fade into the detritus of the rest of the sad history of this event. That is, unless people decide to keep bringing her up.

Then how come the mother isn't out there preventing bullying? How come the mother isn't out there spearheading actions to get people who appear to be mentally unstable help before it's too late? So far, all I've seen are people creaming over themselves about how a girl died for her faith, and yet the reason that Columbine happened, the reason that school shootings all across the country happens, goes unaddressed.

Whether we like it or not, people who commit these horrible shootings are people, like me and you. They are our classmates, our co-workers, our neighbors, they are our fellow church members. They aren't spawn of Satan, they aren't born from the seed of some evil witch. They are people, like me and you, who need help, but they won't get help because everyone is too busy villianizing them when they do shoot up a place.

"You refuse"? Who died and appointed you Supreme Arbiter of who is or is not self-delusional? Who here was walking around in a haze of misbelief about this woman and her cause? It seems to me that it just irritates YOU, and so, like so many times before, YOU take it upon yourself to bring your irritation to NSG. Seems to me you should be asking yourself who these threads are really for.

For funies?

I really can't see that connection. I read that line as being more about the needless needling of a woman looking to give meaning to her daughter's death.

But something has just occurred to me: neither you nor Wilgrove have children. I tell you what. When you both have had kids, let's revisit this whole notion and apply the supposition of murder to them, and see how you'd choose, hypothetically, to deal with it. Until then (and I won't hold my breath, I know it's subject to more probability than the Heart of Gold), I think I'm done here.

Agree to disagree on my end, chaps.


Show me once were I said I object to how the mother is handling her grief. Show me.

I object to it being used to the "prove" that everyone hates Christians in the US. I never objected to the mother using it as a private way of handling her grief. Until you show me that, youre burning strawmen.


EDIT: Fuck Im not even really on Wilgroves side here. Ive only posted here more than three times because of the personal attacks.

Show me once were I said I object to how the mother is handling her grief. Show me.

I object to it being used to the "prove" that everyone hates Christians in the US. I never objected to the mother using it as a private way of handling her grief. Until you show me that, youre burning strawmen.

Again, agree to disagree. I'm done here.

Well, that is true. But nowanddays, thanks to our steller recording keeping, and excellent exchange of information, ignorant of facts is becoming less and less of an excuse.
It isn't a matter of the historians or family-members being ignorant of the facts, it is knowing the facts, but also knowing that somethings are just more important.
Did you learn nothing from the ending of the Dark Knight? Did Heath Ledger die in vain?
Because it's disrespecting her memory, and it's disrespecting the dead.
Who the fuck cares about the dead? They're dead, that's the cold, hard, empty reality, which you seem to love so much.
And I repeat, what right do you have to dictate what is and isn't respectful of her memory to her family?
Except, she never made such proclamation. Her last words were

Hardly a proclamation of faith. The best way for her mother to cope is to realize the truth. That her daughter did died senselessly, that her daughter died because of other people's actions. That her daughter died because two boys who were mentally unstable snapped after being picked on day in and day out in High School.
And I suppose you say this as a psychiatrist who specializes in grief-counseling?

So far I don't think they actually pin-pointed a caused as to why Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did the shooting. I've heard theories, their hatred of Christianity being one of them, but nothings solid.

I also want to thank whoever started this thread. I don't think we talk about it enough in this day and age in this country. And as one with experience working in social services, it gives me something to blog on about. Some of the below I've blogged before...

As anyone who saw Bowling for Columbine might, I want to offer the most simple and very general psycho-social explanation. That feelings of ostracization and social ineptness eventually can lead some young people to a world view full of antipathy and loathing for almost all others. To them everything we usually grow up thinking is good is bad. Parental figures are authoritative and uncaring instead of nurturing. Education is oppressive. Relationships to peers are hierarchical. I'm afraid its a normal human reaction to continual stress and frustration in the developing years (especially for adolescent and teenage boys) to develop a grandiose sense of self in order to defeat the prevailing insecurity inside oneself. The kids at Columbine just developed a much fantasized-about, plan that would help them satisfy basic needs for identity, personal power, and esteem, etc. which was based on the way they saw the world.

Saying they did it because they hate Christianity is therefore beside the point. I don't want to offend anyone or validate what they did, but someone in Colorado Springs had to know those kids were in trouble emotionally speaking. I think if someone had actually been a bit more Christianly toward them, then the worst might not have happened.

You know, extensive research of these individuals who commit these atrocious acts has shown that the number one correlating factor among them is not being Christian or un-Christian. Not listening to heavy metal, rap, or pop country. Its not being the school jock or the bully or the bullied. In very basic terms the number one consistent characteristic in the profiles of people who commit these social atrocities, child or adult, is that they did not have "consistent contact with a caring and responsible friend and/or adult".

If we want to stop these things from happening we all just need to seek out and socialize more with people who need a good friend. Be a Big Brother/Sister, a mentor, a volunteer at the rescue mission, whatever. Invite them to your church, club, or picnic. In this world where true and close relationships can become fewer and farther between than ever before in history we need to make 'reaching out' more important. Little things make a big difference. Make sure they know someone cares. Thats enough.

I also want to thank whoever started this thread. I don't think we talk about it enough in this day and age in this country. And as one with experience working in social services, it gives me something to blog on about. Some of the below I've blogged before...

As anyone who saw Bowling for Columbine might, I want to offer the most simple and very general psycho-social explanation. That feelings of ostracization and social ineptness eventually can lead some young people to a world view full of antipathy and loathing for almost all others. To them everything we usually grow up thinking is good is bad. Parental figures are authoritative and uncaring instead of nurturing. Education is oppressive. Relationships to peers are hierarchical. I'm afraid its a normal human reaction to continual stress and frustration in the developing years (especially for adolescent and teenage boys) to develop a grandiose sense of self in order to defeat the prevailing insecurity inside oneself. The kids at Columbine just developed a much fantasized-about, plan that would help them satisfy basic needs for identity, personal power, and esteem, etc. which was based on the way they saw the world.

Saying they did it because they hate Christianity is therefore beside the point. I don't want to offend anyone or validate what they did, but someone in Colorado Springs had to know those kids were in trouble emotionally speaking. I think if someone had actually been a bit more Christianly toward them, then the worst might not have happened.

You know, extensive research of these individuals who commit these atrocious acts has shown that the number one correlating factor among them is not being Christian or un-Christian. Not listening to heavy metal, rap, or pop country. Its not being the school jock or the bully or the bullied. In very basic terms the number one consistent characteristic in the profiles of people who commit these social atrocities, child or adult, is that they did not have "consistent contact with a caring and responsible friend and/or adult".

If we want to stop these things from happening we all just need to seek out and socialize more with people who need a good friend. Be a Big Brother/Sister, a mentor, a volunteer at the rescue mission, whatever. Invite them to your church, club, or picnic. In this world where true and close relationships can become fewer and farther between than ever before in history we need to make 'reaching out' more important. Little things make a big difference. Make sure they know someone cares. Thats enough.

Game, set and match.

Game, set and match.

This is what we all know, however.

Except for maybe Fiddlebottom, because hes never answered my question.

This is what we all know, however.

Except for maybe Fiddlebottom, because hes never answered my question.

Yeah. Upon a thorough re-read, you're well within your argumentative rights to get an answer.

I'll maintain my stance that the mother's "exploitation" is mischaracterized as such when it's characterized so cynically.

So far I don't think they actually pin-pointed a caused as to why Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did the shooting. I've heard theories, their hatred of Christianity being one of them, but nothings solid.

I don't know if the omnipresent ambiguous "they" have pinpointed a cause, but the FBI certainly has (http://www.slate.com/id/2099203/).

Yeah. Upon a thorough re-read, you're well within your argumentative rights to get an answer.
His early performance in this thread caused me to start ignoring him, and I don't really see the need to stop now.

His early performance in this thread caused me to start ignoring him, and I don't really see the need to stop now.

So, then you leave me to conclude that you think Columbine was about killing Christians, and you buy into the Christian Persecution Complex.


Everything you now post will be viewed through this context.


EDIT: And for fucks sake. My preformance? Get over yourself mate.

I don't know if the omnipresent ambiguous "they" have pinpointed a cause, but the FBI certainly has (http://www.slate.com/id/2099203/).

Holy shitballs.

It makes me wonder what could have been done. Had someone somehow made Harris the Psychopath feel genuine fear (or love), or proven themselves undoubtedly smarter or in some other way vastly superior to Harris. Realizing that there are, as Max Ehrmann put it in Desiderata, "people better and worse than you", makes it really hard to engage in a superiority complex in anything but a joking matter.

Parents WAY out of touch, FTL.

His early performance in this thread caused me to start ignoring him, and I don't really see the need to stop now.

Thou sayest.

Them hating Christianity is the most absurd and unfounded reason.

They were slightly disturbed and were picked on every waking moment. I dont understand why their motives are a mystery for anyone.



In my youth (ok, Im in my very early 20s, Im still techinically in my youth, so when I was in High School) I vandalized a church with my buddies Halloween night. Inverted all their crosses that we could, caused very minor property damage, wrote "Hail Satan!" and "666" on various places around the grounds and stuff like that.

Now Im just a dick to anyone who hands out bibles on Halloween or preaches at the center of campus or stuff like that.

Sounds like fun. I never did such as a teenager, as there weren't any churches around here quite obnoxious enough. Except for the Calvary Baptist one. But then it would be misinterpreted as racism, and it's also on a major street.

As for Eric and Dylan, I think they just got tired of being ostracized at school and something about their minds was ready to snap. They seemed to mainly target popular kids. That's the only theory I've ever heard that makes any sense.

As for Eric and Dylan, I think they just got tired of being ostracized at school and something about their minds was ready to snap. They seemed to mainly target popular kids. That's the only theory I've ever heard that makes any sense.

There is no doubt that Harris was fucking nuts. But there is some element of the above playing into that. They even trained their guns on one kid hiding under a table in the library, and when they recoginized him as someone who was always nice to them, they told him to get out of there.

He survived.

Thou sayest.
Yea verily.

Sounds like fun. I never did such as a teenager, as there weren't any churches around here quite obnoxious enough. Except for the Calvary Baptist one. But then it would be misinterpreted as racism, and it's also on a major street.

As for Eric and Dylan, I think they just got tired of being ostracized at school and something about their minds was ready to snap. They seemed to mainly target popular kids. That's the only theory I've ever heard that makes any sense.

Read the Slate article in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14139447&postcount=117), and re-think. Harris was a genuine, cold-hearted psychopath.

Read the Slate article in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14139447&postcount=117), and re-think. Harris was a genuine, cold-hearted psychopath.

True, but that doesnt explain why he allowed certin kids in his sights to live, and targeted the "jocks".

Their school life played into it, at least in part.

Funny, and here I thought it was love.


Carrot and stick NERV. Most mainstream religions, even Hinduism and Buddhism have some sort of punishment/reward system that presents itself as a cosmic version of Newtonian physics.

Well then by that logic a crazy Christian preaching on the street corner is also guilty of this exact same crime.

except for the fact that you can't criminalize speech

except for the fact that you can't criminalize speech

I kinda said that, but you said it with greater economy. When will I learn?

I kinda said that, but you said it with greater economy. When will I learn?

hah, comes with the job.

But shhh, I see it's time for Wilgrove to spread his knowledge and infinite wisdom again.

Must be Tuesday...

(serious points to whomever gets that last line)

hah, comes with the job.

But shhh, I see it's time for Wilgrove to spread his knowledge and infinite wisdom again.

Must be Tuesday...

(serious points to whomever gets that last line)
You watch Buffy? Lose ten points of academic credibility and go back four spaces.

Must be Tuesday...

(serious points to whomever gets that last line)

Off the top of my head, either we're in Belgium or Buffy's little sister is being kidnapped by demons?

Off the top of my head, either we're in Belgium or Buffy's little sister is being kidnapped by demons?

did you seriously make a "If It's Tuesday This Must Be Belgium" reference? That's fantastic.

did you seriously make a "If It's Tuesday This Must Be Belgium" reference? That's fantastic.

Yes, yes I did. :tongue:

Read the Slate article in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14139447&postcount=117), and re-think. Harris was a genuine, cold-hearted psychopath.

Sorry. I only read the first page before posting.

Interesting that Eric Harris was an actual psychopath. Makes one almost feel sorry for Klebold

Btw, does anyone here know the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath?

True, but that doesnt explain why he allowed certin kids in his sights to live, and targeted the "jocks".

Their school life played into it, at least in part.

Perhaps cause of Dylan? Who knows.

Sorry. I only read the first page before posting.

Interesting that Eric Harris was an actual psychopath. Makes one almost feel sorry for Klebold

Btw, does anyone here know the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath?

hey, you, you TGed me a while ago about something, I think. I wrote back but didn't get a response. TG me the info, if it's still something you want to discuss.

Also, recently, the terms have become blurred between the two, however, the primary difference is that sociopaths tend to act more impulsively and instinctively, whereas a psychopath tends to plan and be more methodical. As such, a psychopath generally "fits in" better, appearing to be less errating and disheveled on the whole.

hey, you, you TGed me a while ago about something, I think. I wrote back but didn't get a response. TG me the info, if it's still something you want to discuss.

Also, recently, the terms have become blurred between the two, however, the primary difference is that sociopaths tend to act more impulsively and instinctively, whereas a psychopath tends to plan and be more methodical. As such, a psychopath generally "fits in" better, appearing to be less errating and disheveled on the whole.

Yeah, I remember that. The TG system is flawed in that it doesn't have a "sent" folder really. I'll get back to you with the info.


So, Psychopath: planning year in advance as seen here. Sociopath: "Hey, I feel like killing someone today.. *bang*"?

So, Psychopath: planning year in advance as seen here. Sociopath: "Hey, I feel like killing someone today.. *bang*"?

That's a...rough way of putting it, but essentially, yes.

That's a...rough way of putting it, but essentially, yes.

You have a TG.

So, Psychopath: planning year in advance as seen here. Sociopath: "Hey, I feel like killing someone today.. *bang*"?

Think of it this way.

Ted Bundy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy) was a psychopath, because he could fit into society.

Jeffery Dahmer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer) was more of a sociopath, because he didnt so much.

For the same reason that 9/11 is still interesting, seven years later?
But..but.. 9/11 was the first instance of terrorism evar!

It makes me wonder what could have been done.


It could have been worse. He could have gotten into public office.

I imagine this was an evangelical church of some type?

I'm a Christian, but I'm a good o'l fashion Lutheran... (Ironic, considering I'm ethnically Jewish and Luther wrote lots of mean things about the Jews)...

How the fuck....?

Indeed. However it lets me attack churches, so I intend to take advantage of it.

How mature.

Quick question to the audience: which of the following two approaches seems more likely to actually get people to listen to your opinions on a faith and its preachers?

Approach one (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14138529&postcount=24)
Approach two (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14138506&postcount=14)

I can get agree with, and would even take part in, one of those. It's a sensible and mature way of making one's point, gives people food for thought, and makes your opponent look irrational and bigoted. The other is just silly, needlessly combative, and makes you look just as bad or worse.

How many Christians do you think we'd have if the sentence of eternal damnation wasn't hanging over their head if they step out of line?

At least one, thank you.

Funny, and here I thought it was love.

Ya know, I hear this line a lot and honestly, unless you can somehow show otherwise, I'm calling it for what it is, a rhetorical piece of bullshit.

Thank you.