NationStates Jolt Archive


Freedom of the Press rankings 2008 issued

Ariddia
23-10-2008, 11:46
Reporters Without Borders issues 2008 press freedom rankings (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=29031)

Iceland, Luxembourg and Norway are in joint first place. Next come Estonia, Finland and Ireland, in joint fourth. Belgium, Latvia, New Zealand, Slovakia, Sweden and Switzerland are joint seventh.

Europe remains the bastion of press freedom, with every country in the top twelve being in Europe, except New Zealand.

Canada ranks 13th. Germany is 20th, the UK 23rd, Australia 28th, Japan 29th, France 35th (just behind Mali, Greece, Ghana and Cyprus), the USA is joint 36th (along with Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cape Verde, South Africa, Spain and Taiwan). The "USA (extra-territorial)" is ranked 119th (behind India and ahead of Georgia).

Italy, in 44th, is the lowest-ranking of the founding members of the EU. Bulgaria, 59th, is the lowest-ranking member of the EU.

Israel is ranked 46th on its own territory. "Israel (extra-territorial)" is 149th.

Russia is 141st (behind Mexico and ahead of Ethiopia). China is 167th.

The bottom three are Turkmenistan (171st), North Korea (172nd) and Eritrea (173rd).

Here are RWB's regional assessments:

Americas:
top: Canada (13)
bottom: Cuba (169)


Close-up on... the Americas

The United States rose twelve places to 36th position. The release of Al-Jazeera cameraman Sami Al-Haj after six years in the Guantanamo Bay military base contributed to this improvement. Although the absence of a federal “shield law” means the confidentiality of sources is still threatened by federal courts, the number of journalists being subpoenaed or forced to reveal their sources has declined in recent months and none has been sent to prison. But the August 2007 murder of Oakland Post editor Chauncey Bailey in Oakland, California, is still unpunished a year later. The way the investigation into his murder has become enmeshed in local conflicts of interest and the lack of federal judicial intervention also help to explain why the United States did not get a higher ranking. Account was also taken of the many arrests of journalists during the Democratic and Republican conventions.

The index’s most spectacular fall is Bolivia (115th), which plummeted 47 places. Its institutional and political crisis has exacerbated the polarisation between state and privately-owned media and exposed journalists to violence because of their presumed links with the government or opposition. One state media employee was killed. Unlike Hugo Chávez’s government in Venezuela (113rd), Evo Morales’ government has tried to defuse the media war by repeatedly offering to talk with the opposition.

Peru (108th) still leads the way as regards the number of physical attacks on journalists, but the level of violence continues to be greater in Colombia (126th) and Mexico (140th), where armed groups and drug traffickers threaten the media’s survival in some areas. While the number of journalists killed in these two countries has fallen, more are fleeing into exile. There have been signs of opening by Raúl Castro’s government in Cuba (last in the Americas at 169th), but they have not changed the human rights situation. Twenty-three dissident journalists are still in prison and press freedom is still non-existent.

Jamaica (21st) and Trinidad and Tobago (27th) are joined in the top 30 this year by Surinam (26th), which has been included in the index for the first time, as has Guyana (88th). The latter’s low position is due to tension between President Bharrat Jagdeo’s government and the press, and to the state’s monopoly of radio broadcasting. Haiti (73rd) continues to rise slowly and Argentina (68th) has also improved, but Brazil (82nd) has barely shifted because of several serious cases of violence against the press.


Europe:
top: Iceland, Luxembourg, Norway (1)
bottom: Belarus (154)


Close-up on... Europe and former USSR

There is little change at the head of the index this year. Aside from Canada and New Zealand, the top 20 countries are all European. None of the European Union’s 27 members is outside the top 60. Europe’s bad boy, Bulgaria (59th), trailed behind the others because of its failure to deal firmly with corruption and violence that is both gangland and political in origin. Italy (44th) and Spain (36th) also received mediocre rankings due, in the former, to a poor overall climate and to mafia threats and violence, and in the latter, to the fear imposed by the Basque armed separatist group ETA.

France (35th) has for the past two years held the European record for police and court interventions linked to the confidentiality of journalists’ sources, with five searches, two preliminary indictments and four summonses. The arrest of Guillaume Dasquié of Geopolitique.com by the Directorate for Territorial Surveillance (DST), an intelligence agency, and the arrest of an Auto Plus reporter, accompanied by raids on his home and office, show that the confidentiality of sources is not always adequately protected in the “land of human rights.”

The most significant development in the former Soviet periphery is the deterioration in the Caucasus, where two of its three independent countries - Armenia (102nd) and Georgia (120th) - had major problems and introduced states of emergency. Several journalists fell victim to the sudden outbreak of war in Georgia.

The countries of Central Asia continue to lag far behind, with Uzbekistan (162nd) and Turkmenistan (171st) coming in the last 20 along with Belarus (154th). The situation in Russia (141st), where the press continues to be subject to violence and harassment, has been changed little by Dimitri Medvedev’s election as president.


Asia:
top: Japan (29)
bottom: North Korea (172)

Oceania:
top: New Zealand (7)
bottom: Tonga (82)



Close-up on... Asia

Asia still has the biggest representation in the 10 countries at the bottom of the ranking. Most of them are dictatorships, but they also for the first time include Sri Lanka (165th), which has an elected government and where the press faces violence that is only too often organised by the state.

At the other end of the spectrum, New Zealand (7th), Australia (28th) and Japan (29th) - countries where democracy is deeply anchored - are in the top 30. New Zealand is one of the only two non-European countries in the top 20, the other being Canada (13th).

Some young democracies have advanced significantly in the past year. Maldives (104th) now has a flourishing independent press. The same goes for Bhutan (74th), where the first privately-owned news media are gradually establishing a distinct identity for themselves.

Afghanistan (156th), on the other hand, has fallen in the ranking because of violence, not only by the Taliban and the warlords’ henchmen but also by government representatives. Burma’s position was already bad and now is worse (170th). The crackdown launched after the September 2007 protests never ended : dozens of journalists have been arrested or threatened, while the military censorship is relentless. In Southeast Asia, Cambodia (126th) got a bad score as a result of a journalist’s murder that was probably instigated by a police officer, and the fact that control of the media was stepped up for the parliamentary elections. Vietnam (168th) fell six places as a result of a crackdown on the liberal media for being too probing in its reporting on corruption.

Major political changes took place in Pakistan (152nd) and Nepal (138th) but their effects on press freedom have not yet been felt. Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s departure as Pakistan’s president should benefit the press but the war with the Taliban is an even more serious problem for journalists.

The low ranking accorded to the United States outside of its own territory (119th) is due in part to the US military’s abuses in Afghanistan where a fixer for a Canadian TV network was arbitrarily detained for several months without any form of trial.

China (167th) continues to have a low ranking despite the efforts of many news media to elude the straightjacket of censorship and police controls. The number of arrests and cases of news surveillance and control by the political police and Propaganda Department is still very high and prevents the new Asian power from achieving any significant improvement.



Close-up on Maghreb / Middle East

The same six Middle East champions of repression that are near the bottom of the world press freedom index every year have confirmed their status this year again. Free expression continues to be no more than a dream in Iraq (158th), Syria (159th), Libya (160th), Saudi Arabia (161st), the Palestinian Territories (163rd) and Iran (166th). Journalists are subjected to relentless censorship and in some cases incredible violence in these countries. The Palestinian Territories have never before fallen so far in a year. The power struggle between the main factions has taken a disastrous toll on press freedom. The political split between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank has been accompanied by a division of the media. The Israeli military’s responsibility for the death of a Palestinian cameraman employed by Reuters in April and the impunity granted to the soldier who fired the fatal shell account for Israel’s fall (149th outside its own territory) in the ranking.

In the Maghreb, Morocco (122nd) continues the fall it began two years ago. The decline in relations between government and press increased significantly with the jailing of journalist Mostapha Hurmatallah. A series of prosecutions of journalists and Internet users has shown that press freedom in Morocco stops at the doors of the royal palace.

Lebanon (66th) has risen 30 places as no journalist was on the list of victims of this year’s bombings. The Hezbollah-orchestrated offensive against certain media affiliated to the anti-Syrian opposition left no victims and trigged a wave of indignation in Lebanese society.


Africa:
top: Namibia (23)
bottom: Eritrea (173)


Close-up on... Africa

Some African leaders have understood the advantages their countries could derive from press freedom. Others have behaved like despots again this year. The continent’s best-placed countries continue by and large to be the same, with Namibia (23rd), Mali (31st), Cape Verde (36th) and Mauritius (47th) coming in the top 50. Some countries that were sorely tried by years of war or dictatorship are emerging from the depths to which they were plunged by violence. They include Liberia (51st), where some police officers still behave with deplorable brutality, and Togo (53rd), which is managing to adhere to acceptable democratic standards.

In democracies such as Botswana (66th) and Benin (70th), the climate between the government and the press often deteriorates, preventing these countries from attaining the positions they would otherwise deserve, given their overall political situation.

Senegal (86th) has fallen again in the ranking because of the government’s stubborn refusal to amend the press law and the often outrageous behaviour of some of Dakar’s newspapers. Senegalese journalists were imprisoned again this year. The bad surprise came from Mauritania (105th), where legislative reforms were clearly inadequate and the political culture continues to be marked by former President Ould Taya’s police-state practices.

There is no point in having a diverse and often insolent press unless you tolerate it without resorting to the security forces or an easily influenced legal system. In Central African Republic (85th), Burundi (94th) and Guinea (99th), for example, the least political unrest can send journalists to prison or at least the police station.

This year’s black spots in Africa were Kenya (97th), which fell 19 places as a result of post-electoral violence, and above all Niger (130th), which fell 41 places after a very trying year for journalists in Niamey and elsewhere. Reporting on the Tuareg uprising in the north of the country has become an absolute taboo for the government, especially in the run-up to the 2009 presidential election.

The African countries near the bottom of the ranking are also the same ones as usual. They include Gambia (137th), Democratic Republic of Congo (148th) and Zimbabwe (151st), where independent journalism requires courage, determination and an ability to put up with violence and injustice.

Finally, the gigantic posters to the glory of President Teodoro Obiang Nguema throughout “Africa’s Kuwait” say it all about the media situation in Equatorial Guinea (156th). But the continent’s most abused country is yet again Eritrea (173rd), last in the ranking for the second year running. President Issaias Afeworki clings to his deliberate choice of cruelty to the many journalists held incommunicado since 2001, and despotism as his method of governing a country whose citizens continue to flee into exile.


There... In RWB's view, that's how countries around the world relate to one another this year.

In some ways, it challenges generalisations and misconceptions. How many people would have assumed that there is more press freedom in Mali than in Italy? More press freedom in Kuweit than in Argentina?

It's been a tradition for me to start a thread on these rankings once a year, so here it is. :p Thoughts?
Lacadaemon
23-10-2008, 11:50
Iceland? Oh come on. There's like four people and seven banks on that island. Of course the press is free. It's not like anything can be covered up there anyway.
Bokkiwokki
23-10-2008, 11:54
Generally the ones that don't have freedom of the press compensate that with the freedom to oppress. :D
Bokkiwokki
23-10-2008, 11:55
Iceland? Oh come on. There's like four people and seven banks on that island. Of course the press is free. It's not like anything can be covered up there anyway.

Nope, as of about a week ago, there's four people and no banks.
Lacadaemon
23-10-2008, 12:05
Nope, as of about a week ago, there's four people and no banks.

I know that, but for the purpose of this study, the banks were there.

Mind you, all this goes to show that even though the press is free, doesn't mean it's any good.
Bokkiwokki
23-10-2008, 12:09
Ah well, the country with, currently, greatest freedom of the press is Zimbabwe: the quantity of worthless paper disguised as "money" that is rolling freely of the presses there, is mindboggling. :eek2: :D
Ariddia
23-10-2008, 12:20
Iceland? Oh come on. There's like four people and seven banks on that island. Of course the press is free. It's not like anything can be covered up there anyway.

Got to love a country which cancelled its latest presidential election because they could find no-one to say "Hmm, I don't really like our current president. I think I'll stand against him." :D
Beer slingers
23-10-2008, 12:47
usa, we're no.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, we're no. 1!!!!!!!!!!
Ariddia
23-10-2008, 14:38
And Iran's Press TV is already putting a shameless spin on it:


US, Israel keep tight rein on reporters

A report by Paris-based Reporters Without Borders (RSF) exposes the US and Israel as violators of press freedoms in conflict zones.

The media group report on Wednesday gave America the unattractive standing of 119th place for its lack of respect toward press freedoms outside US territory in its annual ranking of over 160 countries. It was ranked 111th in the previous RSF annual report.

Israel was 149th on the list for press freedoms beyond its frontiers, compared to its 2007 rank of 103rd.

One of the many Israeli crimes to suppress freedom of the press is its killing of reporters. Reuters cameraman Fadel Shana was killed in April by a shell packed with darts fired from an Israeli tank in the Gaza Strip.

A senior Israeli military lawyer later claimed that troops could not see whether Shana had been operating a camera or a weapon but were nevertheless justified in firing.

"Democracies embroiled in wars outside their own territory, such as the United States or Israel, fall further in the ranking every year," the report reads. "Destabilized and on the defensive, the leading democracies are gradually eroding the space for freedoms."

The countries placed by the non-governmental organization in the top 20 - led by Iceland - were all parliamentary democracies, none of which were involved in conflicts beyond their borders.


(link (http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=72943&sectionid=351020202))

Interesting how the Iranian media "forget" to mention that Iran is ranked 166th, much lower than both the US and Israel. ;)
Pirated Corsairs
23-10-2008, 14:50
And Iran's Press TV is already putting a shameless spin on it:



(link (http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=72943&sectionid=351020202))

Interesting how the Iranian media "forget" to mention that Iran is ranked 166th, much lower than both the US and Israel. ;)

A mere oversight, I am sure.
Nanatsu no Tsuki
23-10-2008, 15:33
Yay, Spain's 36th.! :D
Western Mercenary Unio
23-10-2008, 17:05
Yay, Spain's 36th.! :D

But, Finland is 4th!
Nanatsu no Tsuki
23-10-2008, 17:09
But, Finland is 4th!

Rub it in my face, Finnish-man!:mad:


:D
The Atlantian islands
23-10-2008, 17:16
A mere oversight, I am sure.
Not to mention that they didn't note that domestically, America and Israel are 36 and 46 where as Iran's 166th is indeed it's domestic rating.

Anyway, come on US, we can do better.
Gift-of-god
23-10-2008, 17:25
The problem in Latin America is interesting. Well, not Cuba; that's simple dictatorship.

In many of the right wing dictatorships throughout Latin America, private media was complicit in the tyranny of the state, or the media was actively involved in the destabilisation of leftist democracies. El Mercurio in Chile is a good example of this (http://cjrarchives.org/issues/2003/5/chile-kornbluh.asp).

So when Morales or Chavez makes a claim about private media trying to influence the political process or stifle democracy, there is historical precedent for their claims. I am not attempting to excuse Chavez's behaviour in terms of limiting freedom of the press, merely showing the historical context of his decisions.

I like the fact that Morales is attempting to establish a dialogue. A new idea, apparently, and long over due. I don't think it will be succesful this time, but I do believe it helps lay a foundation for a better relationship between the private media and the state of Bolivia. Hopefully it will be somewhat succesful, and other countries with similar problems will follow.
DaWoad
23-10-2008, 17:32
canada:13 . .. .ohhhhh yaaaah
greed and death
23-10-2008, 17:50
Not to mention that they didn't note that domestically, America and Israel are 36 and 46 where as Iran's 166th is indeed it's domestic rating.

Anyway, come on US, we can do better.

if it takes implementing a shield law to get better freedom of the press ranking in the US then screw it.
Nanatsu no Tsuki
23-10-2008, 19:12
canada:13 . .. .ohhhhh yaaaah

Damn you, Canuckland, with your glitter covered streets, marijuana growing in trees and gays prancing on the streets wearing pink tuttus! *waves fist at Canada*


:tongue:
Vampire Knight Zero
23-10-2008, 19:17
Yay, Spain's 36th.! :D

UK 23rd. :D
Nanatsu no Tsuki
23-10-2008, 19:18
UK 23rd. :D

<.<
You too, eh? Rubbing it in my face. Damn you, Brit!:mad:


:D
Knights of Liberty
23-10-2008, 19:18
UK 23rd. :D

See, thats what makes me laugh, as Im 90% sure the US has more freedom of the press then the UK does.


Frickin police state.
Knights of Liberty
23-10-2008, 19:19
if it takes implementing a shield law to get better freedom of the press ranking in the US then screw it.

Why? Whats wrong with shield laws?
Nanatsu no Tsuki
23-10-2008, 19:20
See, thats what makes me laugh, as Im 90% sure the US has more freedom of the press then the UK does.


Frickin police state.

American press always, always makes me laugh so hard. You guys are irreverent. Long live Foxnews.com's idiocy!!:D
Vampire Knight Zero
23-10-2008, 19:20
<.<
You too, eh? Rubbing it in my face. Damn you, Brit!:mad:


:D

I like to mess with people. :D
Knights of Liberty
23-10-2008, 19:22
American press always, always makes me laugh so hard. You guys are irreverent. Long live Foxnews.com's idiocy!!:D

I never said our press was good, just that it was free;)

And its not like the UK doesnt have their own Fox News equivalent. Hello, Daily Mail!
Nanatsu no Tsuki
23-10-2008, 19:22
I like to mess with people. :D

I assure you, Angle/Briton/Pict (or whatever), you do not want to mess with this Spaniard. *ominously looks at you* I am the Inquisition. I can bring you such hell.:eek2:


:wink:
Vampire Knight Zero
23-10-2008, 19:22
I assure you, Angle/Briton/Pict (or whatever), you do not want to mess with this Spaniard. *ominously looks at you* I am the Inquisition. I can bring you such hell.:eek2:


:wink:

Yay! :D
Nanatsu no Tsuki
23-10-2008, 19:23
I never said our press was good, just that it was free;)

And full of the lulz. Don't forget that.
Aelosia
23-10-2008, 19:45
I do rub it in all your faces, I work as a journalist in a country ranked 113th.

Yet, I am at least partly satisfied to see that the levels of aggression against media and reporters in this country went down this year. I foresee another rise soon, although. But, the goverment is just using the private media as a boogey man, now the state own more radio stations and TV channels than the private sector, so perhaps it won't happen.
Vetalia
23-10-2008, 19:51
Who needs freedom of the press anyways? It's not like anyone wants to hear the truth, so why not just get rid of it from the outset and just let the government tell everyone what they want to hear?
Adunabar
23-10-2008, 20:08
See, thats what makes me laugh, as Im 90% sure the US has more freedom of the press then the UK does.


Frickin police state.

You know nothing.
Gravlen
23-10-2008, 20:12
Reporters Without Borders issues 2008 press freedom rankings (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=29031)

Iceland, Luxembourg and Norway are in joint first place. Next come Estonia, Finland and Ireland, in joint fourth. Belgium, Latvia, New Zealand, Slovakia, Sweden and Switzerland are joint seventh.

But are they using it right? Or are they just writing about Britney and boobs?
SaintB
23-10-2008, 20:31
Not to mention that they didn't note that domestically, America and Israel are 36 and 46 where as Iran's 166th is indeed it's domestic rating.

Anyway, come on US, we can do better.

Not with this 'security crisis' its New Red Scare.
SaintB
23-10-2008, 20:34
I never said our press was good, just that it was free;)


Then why do I pay $1 for a newspaper? I'm being conned here....
Ariddia
23-10-2008, 20:39
But are they using it right? Or are they just writing about Britney and boobs?

Judge for yourself:

Iceland:
* Iceland Review (http://icelandreview.com/)

Luxembourg:
* 352 (http://www.352.lu/)

Norway:
* Norway Post (http://www.norwaypost.no/)
* Aftenposten (http://www.aftenposten.no/english/)

Ireland:
* Irish Independent (http://www.independent.ie/)
* Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/home.asp)

New Zealand:
* New Zealand Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/)
* Dominion Post (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/?source=dompost)
* TVNZ (http://tvnz.co.nz/)
* Radio New Zealand (http://www.radionz.co.nz/)
Gavin113
23-10-2008, 20:42
Anyway, come on US, we can do better.

Not as long as we got that darn liberal media. Fox news is the only station that tells it straight. *spits*
Gravlen
23-10-2008, 21:02
Judge for yourself:
I can't, as that analysis would take more time than I would care to invest, and I don't know what size the different news medias are, nor anything about the status of the other medias in the countries. The medias that are not on your list.

My point is: If they don't do their jobs - and I've seen a lot of news media that doesn't (in my opinion) do what they're supposed to be doing - then the freedom is wasted.
Great Void
23-10-2008, 21:13
I can't, as that analysis would take more time than I would care to invest, and I don't know what size the different news medias are, nor anything about the status of the other medias in the countries. The medias that are not on your list.

My point is: If they don't do their jobs - and I've seen a lot of news media that doesn't (in my opinion) do what they're supposed to be doing - then the freedom is wasted.
Could you perhaps, then, check the first link in this thread..? You could find out how the analysis of the Reporters sans frontières was done and all. Then you might want to find out more about said organisation, you know, whether to trust their findings... I'm not sure where you can find out if the freedom is wasted or not, though.
Gravlen
23-10-2008, 22:00
Could you perhaps, then, check the first link in this thread..? You could find out how the analysis of the Reporters sans frontières was done and all. Then you might want to find out more about said organisation, you know, whether to trust their findings... I'm not sure where you can find out if the freedom is wasted or not, though.

I've done that, and they've naturally just examined the freedom of the press, not the quality of it.

And I may have been a bit harsh when I said "wasted"...
greed and death
23-10-2008, 23:04
Why? Whats wrong with shield laws?

Reporters are not lawyers. They have the same moral duty to report criminals to the police and give information about said criminals when a court request it as anyone else.

The only 3 exceptions are doctors, lawyers and clergy but only in matters pertaining to medical treatment in the case of doctors, when acting as legal council when pertaining to lawyers or under the seal of the confession when as a member of the clergy. And all 3 of those professions require training and degrees in their field of expertise. The requirements to be a reporter is have a new paper willing to print your work, a TV/radio station willing to put you on the air or taken to the extremes be a blogger.
Aelosia
23-10-2008, 23:08
Reporters are not lawyers. They have the same moral duty to report criminals to the police and give information about said criminals when a court request it as anyone else.

The only 3 exceptions are doctors, lawyers and clergy but only in matters pertaining to medical treatment in the case of doctors, when acting as legal council when pertaining to lawyers or under the seal of the confession when as a member of the clergy. And all 3 of those professions require training and degrees in their field of expertise. The requirements to be a reporter is have a new paper willing to print your work, a TV/radio station willing to put you on the air or taken to the extremes be a blogger.

In your country, as I see it. Here we have to study five years and get a major for it.
Laerod
23-10-2008, 23:09
Reporters are not lawyers. They have the same moral duty to report criminals to the police and give information about said criminals when a court request it as anyone else.

The only 3 exceptions are doctors, lawyers and clergy but only in matters pertaining to medical treatment in the case of doctors, when acting as legal council when pertaining to lawyers or under the seal of the confession when as a member of the clergy. And all 3 of those professions require training and degrees in their field of expertise. The requirements to be a reporter is have a new paper willing to print your work, a TV/radio station willing to put you on the air or taken to the extremes be a blogger.Technically speaking, the media is the 4th pillar of power, meant to keep the government in check. It kind of requires confidentiality of sources to be able to get insiders to talk about what the government is doing wrong.
Aelosia
23-10-2008, 23:14
Technically speaking, the media is the 4th pillar of power, meant to keep the government in check. It kind of requires confidentiality of sources to be able to get insiders to talk about what the government is doing wrong.

Why are you single?
Laerod
23-10-2008, 23:17
Why are you single?
I actually was in the process of answering that when the thread got locked. If I hadn't taken the opportunity Jahhanam had provided to explain the situation of German television, I might have succeeded too... anyway:
Why in the nine hells are you single?Haven't run into a girl I could get into a steady relationship with, and haven't been desperate enought to look harder, I guess.
Well, I hope you meet somebody you like (or don't if you're happy single) and I hope you feel bett- wait, Germany airs porn?Not as much as it used to, I'm afraid... =(
Used to be any given day of the week, three or four channels would have naughty movies airing. Now it's just one channel showing the same six or seven adult movies they own on Friday nights.
Aelosia
23-10-2008, 23:36
I should blame porn, then.

Damn adult entertaiment industry, stealing the best pheromones emitters from us!
Laerod
23-10-2008, 23:48
I should blame porn, then.

Damn adult entertaiment industry, stealing the best pheromones emitters from us!
Nah, it's also that I'm in the last throes of my studies so I'm not too keen on starting anything when I'm about to leave.
Redwulf
24-10-2008, 00:22
Rub it in my face, Finnish-man!:mad:


Use a different smiley and that takes on a whole new meaning . . . For example . . .

Rub it in my face, Finnish-man!:fluffle:
New Limacon
24-10-2008, 00:58
I never said our press was good, just that it was free;)


Kind of like the free coffee they serve at most offices.

I share your confusion, though, KoL. Maybe it's just my American naivete shining through, but I always thought that a free press was one of the few rights that weren't violated more than is healthy.
Knights of Liberty
24-10-2008, 03:37
You know nothing.

Hell of a lot more than you do, apperantly.
Gauntleted Fist
24-10-2008, 03:42
Hell of a lot more than you do, apparently.Are you a member of the American Party? :confused:
Because you might "Know Nothing", but you just might know a lot. ;)
greed and death
24-10-2008, 03:44
In your country, as I see it. Here we have to study five years and get a major for it.

most journalist have a undergraduate degree(though not required and a lot of small town journalist don't have one. But a undergraduate degree is not enough for the ability of confidentiality. lawyers and doctors both have at least 8 years of school.
Knights of Liberty
24-10-2008, 03:44
most journalist have a undergraduate degree(though not required and a lot of small town journalist don't have one. But a undergraduate degree is not enough for the ability of confidentiality. lawyers and doctors both have at least 8 years of school.

And clergy have none. Yet they get it. Why do they?
greed and death
24-10-2008, 03:58
Technically speaking, the media is the 4th pillar of power, meant to keep the government in check. It kind of requires confidentiality of sources to be able to get insiders to talk about what the government is doing wrong.

That is exactly why they should not have the right to confidentiality. I prefer a transparent power structure to one cloaked in secrecy. I only mildly tolerate it in cases of national security. look at news paper articles for the lead up to the Spanish American war. That was a war that unchecked journalism using "confidential sources" caused. You see it again in the lead up to WWI except the other way. If Zimmerman had not publicly declared he wrote the Zimmerman telegram to Mexico, the journalist were denouncing the telegram as false, even when the British government produced evidence that it was true.
The 4th pillar as you say, since it is a private institution a judicial inquiry is often the only way to determine the truth of what is written and to exempt a journalist form that is just plain undemocratic.
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 12:35
Use a different smiley and that takes on a whole new meaning . . . For example . . .

Ok, let me try then.

Rub it in my face, Finnish-man!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/sex020.gif
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 12:55
Ok, let me try then.

Rub it in my face, Finnish-man!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/sex020.gif

:eek:

Something must be wrong with me... that smiley is giving me ideas for the bedroom... :D
greed and death
24-10-2008, 15:34
And clergy have none. Yet they get it. Why do they?

Ummm. the ones that get the seal of the confession privilege require an undergraduate degree in liberal arts and a post graduate degree in like spirituality.
http://www.rmbowman.com/catholic/OrdReq.htm
Rambhutan
24-10-2008, 15:47
So the 'Land of the free' is actually Europe....
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 15:48
:eek:

Something must be wrong with me... that smiley is giving me ideas for the bedroom... :D

See, perhaps that's why England is ranked so high on Press freedom. You British are kinky-minded and what-not.:p
Psychotic Mongooses
24-10-2008, 15:59
Ummm. the ones that get the seal of the confession privilege require an undergraduate degree in liberal arts and a post graduate degree in like spirituality.
http://www.rmbowman.com/catholic/OrdReq.htm

Who the fuck are the "United Catholic Church"?
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:23
See, perhaps that's why England is ranked so high on Press freedom. You British are kinky-minded and what-not.:p

Is there anything wrong with that? I love my kinky side. :D
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 16:23
Is there anything wrong with that? I love my kinky side. :D

Au contraire, there's nothing wrong with your kinkiness.
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:25
Au contraire, there's nothing wrong with your kinkiness.

That's good to hear. It always helps to have a wild side. :D
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 16:27
That's good to hear. It always helps to have a wild side. :D

It does indeed.
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:28
It does indeed.

*Acts like a monkey*

Well, maybe not THAT wild. :p
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 16:29
*Acts like a monkey*

Well, maybe not THAT wild. :p

Dance, monkey boy, dance!
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:29
Dance, monkey boy, dance!

ooh ooh AHH AHH!

*Nibbles on Banana*
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 16:30
ooh ooh AHH AHH!

*Nibbles on Banana*

Oh, dear god.:tongue:
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:31
Oh, dear god.:tongue:

That's just the clown in me acting up. I have my kinky side, my honourable side, and my clown side. :D
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 16:32
That's just the clown in me acting up. I have my kinky side, my honourable side, and my clown side. :D

Which means you're a wholesome British man.:D
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:33
Which means you're a wholesome British man.:D

Precisely. ;)

I'm a classic Brit. All class and no sass. :p
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 16:34
Precisely. ;)

I'm a classic Brit. All class and no sass. :p

Or ass. But you have an ass so... there's no problem there.:D
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:35
Or ass. But you have an ass so... there's no problem there.:D

I don't know wether to feel complimented or dirty. :D
Rambhutan
24-10-2008, 16:37
Get a room
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 16:37
I don't know wether to feel complimented or dirty. :D

Feel both. *nod*
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 16:38
Feel both. *nod*

Aye.

Get a room.

Get a monkey. :D
Knights of Liberty
24-10-2008, 19:21
Ummm. the ones that get the seal of the confession privilege require an undergraduate degree in liberal arts and a post graduate degree in like spirituality.
http://www.rmbowman.com/catholic/OrdReq.htm

Im sorry, I meant to say the clergy dont have a real degree.

Post Grad is "spirituality"? For fucks sake...


No, its all about giving the clergy and religious special privalges. This is the US after all.
Nova Magna Germania
24-10-2008, 19:28
Why Canada ranks so low?
Nanatsu no Tsuki
24-10-2008, 19:29
Why Canada ranks so low?

Cos Canada sucks...






I jest!:D
Vampire Knight Zero
24-10-2008, 19:30
Cos Canada sucks...

I jest!:D

Or do you? :p
SaintB
24-10-2008, 19:31
You can't have Freedom of the Press when people charge for newspapers -_-
Gift-of-god
24-10-2008, 19:35
Why Canada ranks so low?

A lack of shield laws, and an episode of religious violence against a community editor, apparently.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=25555&Valider=OK

EDIT: En français, si tu veux:

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=25538&Valider=OK
greed and death
24-10-2008, 20:30
Im sorry, I meant to say the clergy dont have a real degree.

Post Grad is "spirituality"? For fucks sake...


No, its all about giving the clergy and religious special privalges. This is the US after all.

The post grade pertains to their career choice just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it an invalid path seeing as they are paid.
they also have a 4 year liberal arts undergrad degree. And I put my money on the average clergyman being more educated then yourself.