NationStates Jolt Archive

What is everyone's opinion on this matter?
do you believe that flanders can be and should be ruled by itself or not?

I think that it should be up to the Flemish people.

I've had it up to here with new countries. I am tired of having to buy new world maps. What an inconvenience! Take your democracy else where!!

They will merge with Holland.

make it a US state problem solved

A thread was actually made about the Flanders/Belgium thing, eh? :D

I think that it should be up to the Flemish people.

How do people with chest congestion factor into this? :confused:

a merge with Holland is actually quite possible as both the flemish as the dutch speak dutch and they both are in favour of the merge to happen so.

Flanders should be annexed to the Netherlands, Wallonia to France, leaving the Brussels area as a kind of "District of Columbia" for the EU.

I think that it should be up to the Flemish people.

I agree. But, unfortunately, as it happens with the Basque country in Spain, to the central government it doesn't matter what the Basque (in your case, the Flemish) think.:(

Yes, Flanders to Holland and Wallonia to France, and Brussels some EU district.

I agree. But, unfortunately, as it happens with the Basque country in Spain, to the central government it doesn't matter what the Basque (in your case, the Flemish) think.:(

Unfortunately, you're quite correct.

How do people with chest congestion factor into this? :confused:

They'll move to Arizona or somewhere similarly warm and dry until their congestion clears up.

I don't see how there's anything wrong with Belgium as it is. T'if it taint broke, ton't fix it.

Well actually Belgium is nearly the cliff... THey haven't had a central goverment for more then a year now, and tentions between the flemish and the wallonians are on the rise so...

I don't see how there's anything wrong with Belgium as it is. T'if it taint broke, ton't fix it.

Problem is Belgium IS broken.
Of course, The Netherlands will be happy to annex Flanders. It is quite wealthy.
The rest of Belgium however...

a merge with Holland is actually quite possible as both the flemish as the dutch speak dutch and they both are in favour of the merge to happen so.

Dutch is a common language in Belgium. however, I'm pretty sure the Flemish speak Flemish. Which is, a dialect of Dutch, but the difference is that Belgian Dutch uses a more Barbantic/Belgian dialect.

A merger is a possibility though.

Seeing as the Belgian motto is "Strength through unity" and this is written in 3 languages, I do not think a split will happen, no matter how possible it is. I doubt the government, and the Royal family will allow 44% of the country to break away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Belgium

^ If push comes to shove. Highly unlikely, probably won't stop a breakaway, defiantly will not help matters, and will make things very frosty with the EU. France and Holland in particular.

Dutch is a common language in Belgium. however, I'm pretty sure the Flemish speak Flemish. Which is, a dialect of Dutch, but the difference is that Belgian Dutch uses a more Barbantic/Belgian dialect.

While the pronounciation and choice of words differs from "standard" Dutch, Flemish counts as official Dutch. As illustrated by the Belgians often winnning "10 voor taal" and "het groot dictee" ;)

Well the flemish speak dutch but the only have some words different and the have like a for us dutchmen, strange pronounciation. as 77% of the udthc agree with the merge, so does 54% of the flemish which is more then half so...

Why? What purpose could this possibly serve other than to make the nationalists in Flanders cream themselves?

Holland will get the second important port to Europe, Antwerp.

Why? What purpose could this possibly serve other than to make the nationalists in Flanders cream themselves?

It would significantly increase the prosperity of the Netherlands and Flanders if they merge. Together they would in essence be the ideal portal to Europe.

It would of course throw the Walloons in a deep well of poverty. Then again, they deserve that for refusing to serve me when I ordered a drink in Dutch. "L'union fait la force" my (selfcensored).

Why? What purpose could this possibly serve other than to make the nationalists in Flanders cream themselves?
Holland shall rule the seas once again.

Or the two largest ports in Europe would be Dutch, just like Brussel which would be fun.

Holland, shmolland, what about poor old Belgium?

I think they should realize the inherent benefit there is in being capable of being fluent in two or more languages, easily. I think the Wallonians should too.

I'm not a nationalist, but if the choice is between feeling Belgian, Wallonian, Bruxellois or Flemish, I'll pick Belgian.

Besides, Brussels wouldn't break away with Flanders at any rate, if it ever happened, which it won't anytime soon.

I think give them whatever the majority wants.

Holland, shmolland, what about poor old Belgium?
They shouldn't have seceded in the first place.

They shouldn't have seceded in the first place.

Ever heard the phrase, two wrongs don't make a right?

Ever heard the phrase, two wrongs don't make a right?Yes, but in Dutch that phrase doesn't exist.:tongue:

Ah, jolly good then, Flanders independence FTW! :D

I think that it should be up to the Flemish people.

+1. There should be a referendum in Flanders.

PS: Has any1 mentioned Ned Flanders yet?

PS: Has any1 mentioned Ned Flanders yet?

Nope, you're the first.:D

Nope, you're the first.:D

God dammit!

I was hoping someone would NOT mention it actually. :p

economically i dont think it would matter if belgium split
however i dont think the people would like to call themselves dutch or french (if they were annexed by France and Holland)
Belgium should stay as it is or become a confederation

I was hoping someone would NOT mention it actually. :p

This is NSG, it was bound to happen sometime.:D

I live in Flanders and I follow up every bit of political news about my country and unfortunately we're having an economic crisis AND a political. Flanders wants belgium to break, we just can't because the wallonians don't agree. every year Flanders pays an amount of 6.5 billion euro's to wallonia and they do nothing with it to improve their economy. it is all spend by socialist political leader elio di rupo and his mob gang.

This is NSG, it was bound to happen sometime.:D

True, true. If it can be mentioned... it will in this place.

I live in Flanders and I follow up every bit of political news about my country and unfortunately we're having an economic crisis AND a political. Flanders wants belgium to break, we just can't because the wallonians don't agree. every year Flanders pays an amount of 6.5 billion euro's to wallonia and they do nothing with it to improve their economy. it is all spend by socialist political leader elio di rupo and his mob gang.

How old are u btw?

20 years old, but feeling 100

+1. There should be a referendum in Flanders.

PS: Has any1 mentioned Ned Flanders yet?

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that, due to flagrant use of the word Belgium, this is the most vulgar thread NSG has ever had.

why don't we just have the British and French back opposing sides like the good old days :confused:

*ponders how I can get Prussia involved*

20 years old, but feeling 100

So your 20 and havent tried anal sex yet?

So your 20 and havent tried anal sex yet?

What on earth are you talking about? :eek:

What on earth are you talking about? :eek:

*grabs Zero-kun by the neck, covers his mouth with chloroform and drags him away*

Shhhh... one threadjack is enough...

*grabs Zero-kun by the neck, covers his mouth with chloroform and drags him away*

Shhhh... one threadjack is enough...

uhh... *Falls uncouncious and is dragged away*

(Ok i'm leaving the thread. :p )

See, when Zero leaves threads, the soul goes too. He literally is a thread vampire, sucking the life out as he leaves. Better to be a funny, spammy threadjack than dead.

why don't we just have the British and French back opposing sides like the good old days :confused:

*ponders how I can get Prussia involved*

Ah, there is the german speaking community ofcourse. The Brits will support the flemish (it's tradition for them). The Prussians aka Germans support the small german community and french may support Wallonia.

That being said; I think Wallonia should break away from Belgium. If they're fully responsible for themselves they might actually prosper, there are many intelligent people there and it's right between some very rich regions (Netherlands, Flanders, Ruhr-area, Paris and UK). Only they didn't adapt in the last 50 years because there was no incentive to (the money of flanders is just too good, and if you improve you get less money).

That being said, they're still arrogant *** for refusing to speak dutch to me in an official bilangual city like Brussels :(

Also, I know 0.01% of the german speaking community :D They're quite cool and they don't deserve to be part of France, they'd lose all their precious rights associated with having their own language since the French governments don't allow much freedom of language :(

Ah, there is the german speaking community ofcourse. The Brits will support the flemish (it's tradition for them). The Prussians aka Germans support the small german community and french may support Wallonia.

That being said; I think Wallonia should break away from Belgium. If they're fully responsible for themselves they might actually prosper, there are many intelligent people there and it's right between some very rich regions (Netherlands, Flanders, Ruhr-area, Paris and UK). Only they didn't adapt in the last 50 years because there was no incentive to (the money of flanders is just too good, and if you improve you get less money).

That being said, they're still arrogant *** for refusing to speak dutch to me in an official bilangual city like Brussels :(

Also, I know 0.01% of the german speaking community :D They're quite cool and they don't deserve to be part of France, they'd lose all their precious rights associated with having their own language since the French governments don't allow much freedom of language :(


sounds like it could be a really divisive issue for the EU. perhaps the CIA better go fund/arm separatist groups.

sounds like it could be a really divisive issue for the EU. perhaps the CIA better go fund/arm separatist groups.

Yes, because that's the only thing actually missing at the moment. Armed conflict. Really, Belgium would be the Bosnia of Western Europe.

I think it's staggeringly irrelevant. It's all in the EU anyways, and it's not like little countries' governments really have a lot of influence on what happens to their populations or world politics either. So in effect most of it must come down to nationalist dickwaving, which I'm not a fan of.

Also, Vlaams Belang is another one of those brown shirt-populist parties. You can think about Flanders what you will, but if those types are going to form the leadership, I'd rather not have them go seperately.

Yes, because that's the only thing actually missing at the moment. Armed conflict. Really, Belgium would be the Bosnia of Western Europe.

And there's enough in Vlaams Blok (oh wait, sorry, that one was banned, Vlaams Belang) to make it happen too. Not in a democratic manner though. They could only achieve it through force.

Whether they'd pull it off is another question.

stinkin Flanders! NMG beat me to it! :mad:

I think it's staggeringly irrelevant. It's all in the EU anyways, and it's not like little countries' governments really have a lot of influence on what happens to their populations or world politics either. So in effect most of it must come down to nationalist dickwaving, which I'm not a fan of.

Also, Vlaams Belang is another one of those brown shirt-populist parties. You can think about Flanders what you will, but if those types are going to form the leadership, I'd rather not have them go seperately.

Ah, but what does the VB have besides their quest for independence. I think it will soon be over with them if Belgium splits. That's the current drawback in Belgian politics, they're all single-issue parties :p Some (the flemish) are for more autonomy (the VB and NVA are more extreme than the others on that issue) while the Wallonian parties are for less autonomy.

And that's exactly the drawback, they focus so much on constitutional issues, that they forget to put effort into reforming the country's economics. Something that Wallonia drastically needs now(and the last 50 years), and in a few years Flanders as well.

Oogh!:hail:
Blaatschapen hit the spot,

Instead of listening to the ...what 20% ? misguided, deluded and marginal flemish that watch every stinking soap and every sorry-ass "quiz for the normal Joe" and that want to be "independent" and want to "relive the days of 1302".
Those rightist ignorami:mad: who want to cut off Wallonia of the economic and social (not more social security but better managed, aiming to get more people to work) reforms it so badly needs. What ? Solidarity ring any bells ?:confused:
Wallonia was the backbone of the country in early industrial revolution, then
it was Flanders, I'm strongly guessing Wallonia's next again !

Fie on the French ! and Fie on the Dutch !
We're belgian cause we all dont want to be part of those horrible countries !
As someone else mentioned it's all part of the EU, it doesn't make much difference, only that we're being enormous pricks if we go all " independent",
I hear we're supposedly giving 6,5 billion euros to wallonia :eek:
I didn't know we even made that much money as a district.

an example of Flemish nationalist stubbornness and almost rascism ?
"Split Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde !"
It's the flemish side stopping it and whining it has to be done... the wallonians came with a very good compromise: expand Brussels with a few municipalities and let the rest be flemish district , Brussels is a booming World-city confiend due to district borders.
But apparently that's not good enough for the Flemish-Nationalists..

So hey, split Belgium ?
why the f... ?
Let's focus on real problems, like the financial crisis, social reforms, creating a governement instead, mkay:D

...speaking of wich!
Yes it's true we're having problems actually setting up a governement due to the disability of some parties unable to make decisions, agreements, etc.
But I gues it's better to have no governement, and by this proving the country is democratic than to have a governement ran by populistic swines...

I usually liberate Flanders as a Nazi puppet state in Hearts of Iron 2, so sure.

What is everyone's opinion on this matter?
do you believe that flanders can be and should be ruled by itself or not?

I think they should be ruled by the Dutch...
XD

I think they should be ruled by the Dutch...
XD

You sicken me !:mad:

You sicken me !:mad:

I try

It would of course throw the Walloons in a deep well of poverty. Then again, they deserve that for refusing to serve me when I ordered a drink in Dutch. "L'union fait la force" my (selfcensored).

Funny, you ever tried ordering something in french in Flanders? I get a better reaction speaking in English than French on the other side of the linguistic border.

I live in Flanders and I follow up every bit of political news about my country and unfortunately we're having an economic crisis AND a political. Flanders wants belgium to break, we just can't because the wallonians don't agree. every year Flanders pays an amount of 6.5 billion euro's to wallonia and they do nothing with it to improve their economy. it is all spend by socialist political leader elio di rupo and his mob gang.

And before that Wallonia supported Flanders all through the industrial revolution...

I personally think it would be a big shame if Belgium split, and in honesty, as much as many people may feel dissatisfied with the the status quo, I don't think the majority necessarily want a complete split or to join with Netherlands/France. A compromise does however need to be reached, and antagonistic policies on both sides (although they do seem to be mostly coming from the Flemish nationalists) really aren't helping.

I personally think it would be a big shame if Belgium split, and in honesty, as much as many people may feel dissatisfied with the the status quo, I don't think the majority necessarily want a complete split or to join with Netherlands/France. A compromise does however need to be reached, and antagonistic policies on both sides (although they do seem to be mostly coming from the Flemish nationalists) really aren't helping.

Now what you said before isn't all correct and all, but the second part is :hail:
as said in my previous post, the majority -doesnt- want a split up, a 20% of marginal rightists are just crying harder than everyone else.
It's a natural reaction for times of more or less economic crisis - find a scapegoat !

Vive la Belgique !

And before that Wallonia supported Flanders all through the industrial revolution...


*cough* At the cost of having to speak french *cough* And now? When I'm in Brussels trying to order something in a bakery in Dutch(note: Brussels is bilangual) I don't get served. That is lame arrogance on the side of the french speaking people. Bah! Even English wasn't understandable to them, and that for a place in the centre of Brussels, a modern western european city with lots of foreign people in it, capital of Europe, my donkey!

Now what you said before isn't all correct and all, but the second part is :hail:
as said in my previous post, the majority -doesnt- want a split up, a 20% of marginal rightists are just crying harder than everyone else.
It's a natural reaction for times of more or less economic crisis - find a scapegoat !

Vive la Belgique !


Have you ever been in Belgium? you honestly believe that this has anything to do with the economic crisis? this discussion is going on forever and maybe you don't like it, but we are with a lot more than 20% and no we are not marginal. we want democracy (normally what you people hold so dear) in stead of a cordon sanitaire and independence in stead of french gangsters in charge. (:p rumour: it is said that Di rupo was once a student of Berlusconi :p)

Keep the country together but give anyone, including foreigners, the right to punch the Wallonians in the face if they get cheeky. TADA!

As long as they keep making good chocolate and beer...

(seriously, Leonidas (http://www.leonidas-chocolate.com/) is the best stuff in the world)

Keep the country together but give anyone, including foreigners, the right to punch the Wallonians in the face if they get cheeky. TADA!

i prefer jsut make it a state in the US and make them all speak English.

i prefer jsut make it a state in the US and make them all speak English.
No way! Then they'd start making shitty beer to match the rest of their new country.

No way! Then they'd start making shitty beer to match the rest of their new country.

and they would have a reason to join together as a people in their hate of the rest of the US.

and they would have a reason to join together as a people in their hate of the rest of the US.
Then they'd just become one country again and everything would be fixed?


So basically you're suggesting that you make things so much worse to get everyone to appreciate what they have?

Then they'd just become one country again and everything would be fixed?


So basically you're suggesting that you make things so much worse to get everyone to appreciate what they have?

Thats why we elected Bush in America.

Funny, you ever tried ordering something in french in Flanders? I get a better reaction speaking in English than French on the other side of the linguistic border.

Hmm - I did not. The Walloons were only willing to serve me if I ordered exactly right in French. And yes, that meant *their* accent. A slightly different inflection and you were air to them.

The Flemish side was at least willing to serve people ordering in broken Dutch, Dutch Dutch, or English. They also served French speaking people - but admittedly very, very, very slowly.

Wait, wait, guys, I've got an idea!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/PIcaRDMPC/ee-map.gif

Hmm - I did not. The Walloons were only willing to serve me if I ordered exactly right in French. And yes, that meant *their* accent. A slightly different inflection and you were air to them.

The Flemish side was at least willing to serve people ordering in broken Dutch, Dutch Dutch, or English. They also served French speaking people - but admittedly very, very, very slowly.
This all sounds like they're a lot of idiots.

Solution. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/1940-Fall_Gelb.jpg/788px-1940-Fall_Gelb.jpg)

This all sounds like they're a lot of idiots.

Solution. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/1940-Fall_Gelb.jpg/788px-1940-Fall_Gelb.jpg)

Oh, pfft, if we're gonna do that, let's do it right:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/PIcaRDMPC/ee-mapa.gif

Wait, wait, guys, I've got an idea!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/PIcaRDMPC/ee-map.gif

So subtle I almost didn't notice.

Oh, pfft, if we're gonna do that, let's do it right:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/PIcaRDMPC/ee-mapa.gif

I like.

Europe for Germany, the Rest of the World for Britain. As per one of the possible peace settlements proposed in 1940.

Have you ever been in Belgium? you honestly believe that this has anything to do with the economic crisis? this discussion is going on forever and maybe you don't like it, but we are with a lot more than 20% and no we are not marginal. we want democracy (normally what you people hold so dear) in stead of a cordon sanitaire and independence in stead of french gangsters in charge. (:p rumour: it is said that Di rupo was once a student of Berlusconi :p)

I actually live in it, and actually the whole hate for the walloons only started a few 5 years ago. French gangsters aren't in charge, that's like saying Nader is in charge of the US, although that Nader is cool and the "french gangsters" as you say arent.

I call referrendum ...
and to make the outcome even more decisive pro-belgian; anyone below an IQ of 70 isn't allowed to vote (cause let's face it, some people just dont know what's best for the country!)


and you map-folks, I'd rather be a german province than to be ruled by the right-wing rascist fatcats that are the Vlaams Belang.:D

Have you ever been in Belgium? you honestly believe that this has anything to do with the economic crisis? this discussion is going on forever and maybe you don't like it, but we are with a lot more than 20% and no we are not marginal. we want democracy (normally what you people hold so dear) in stead of a cordon sanitaire and independence in stead of french gangsters in charge. (:p rumour: it is said that Di rupo was once a student of Berlusconi :p)

I grew up in Belgium (as one of those multitude of expats living around Brussels) and have lived on both side of the linguistic divide, which I think gives me quite an objective (if a bit removed) view of the issue.

Can Wallonians be dicks? Well yes but I can assure you that so can the Flemish, this is in no way one-sided. Indeed it often seems to me that their's a lot more hatred on the Flemish side for the Wallonians, whilst on the Wallonian side it's more resentment for perceived aggressive policies.

Finally, "french gangsters" in charge? When was the last time Belgium had a french prime minister? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most seats in the federal government filled by Flemish MPs (quite rightly, in proportion with the population). The reason their's a Cordon Sanitaire around the Vlaamse Belang is due to their extreme right-wing tendencies (including, but not limited to, islamaphobia) not their Flemish nationalism. I'm not going to say their aren't issues, their clearly are, but please stop acting like the Flemish community is being oppressed, because that's about as laughable as when fundamentalist groups claim Christians are being oppressed in the US.

I grew up in Belgium (as one of those multitude of expats living around Brussels) and have lived on both side of the linguistic divide, which I think gives me quite an objective (if a bit removed) view of the issue.

Can Wallonians be dicks? Well yes but I can assure you that so can the Flemish, this is in no way one-sided. Indeed it often seems to me that their's a lot more hatred on the Flemish side for the Wallonians, whilst on the Wallonian side it's more resentment for perceived aggressive policies.

Finally, "french gangsters" in charge? When was the last time Belgium had a french prime minister? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most seats in the federal government filled by Flemish MPs (quite rightly, in proportion with the population). The reason their's a Cordon Sanitaire around the Vlaamse Belang is due to their extreme right-wing tendencies (including, but not limited to, islamaphobia) not their Flemish nationalism. I'm not going to say their aren't issues, their clearly are, but please stop acting like the Flemish community is being oppressed, because that's about as laughable as when fundamentalist groups claim Christians are being oppressed in the US.

-Spot on,
and the cordon sanitaire is completely legal and correct in a democracy.

Aye, Vlaams Belang are the shit on the shoe that is Belgian politics.

-Spot on,
and the cordon sanitaire is completely legal and correct in a democracy.

I just wikied this term.... and man, your politics are much more interesting than the politics here.

I just wikied this term.... and man, your politics are much more interesting than the politics here.
Aye but somehow more broken.

Aye but somehow more broken.

Well... "broken"
I dont think the troubles to get the next governement really means there's a big flaw in the system.
I mean... it could do with a few adjustments, but it's very democratic, letting every view have a chance instead of putting the highlights on 2 political parties who then smother all the small parties.

Aye but somehow more broken.
Only slightly. I'm from Canada... we get to deal with separatists and minority governments formed by the only party who said they would refuse to work with any of the other parties.

Oh, plus there are occasional rumblings about separation on the other side of the country as well.

Well... "broken"
I dont think the troubles to get the next governement really means there's a big flaw in the system.
I mean... it could do with a few adjustments, but it's very democratic, letting every view have a chance instead of putting the highlights on 2 political parties who then smother all the small parties.
Having two parties is bad, having about five which all do pretty well causes problems too.

Only slightly. I'm from Canada... we get to deal with separatists and minority governments formed by the only party who said they would refuse to work with any of the other parties.

Oh, plus there are occasional rumblings about separation on the other side of the country as well.
Thought you were a Yank, sorry :(

And aye, all kinds of seperatist parties are Bad And Unhelpful imo.

Thought you were a Yank, sorry :(

And aye, all kinds of seperatist parties are Bad And Unhelpful imo.
Well, the separatists kept out the people who ignore science when it's not convenient, shit on the art community and are trying to erode the rights of many groups this time so I'm not going to complain about them too much. Our system is more screwed up in that a party can have 35% support and conceivably run the show with a majority government and the separatists getting 10% of the votes get twice as many seats as a party with 20% of the votes.

Oh, and that's ok... although their politics are pretty broken too, remember the hanging chads?

Vlaams Belang is a party who takes things to far, I'm not really a fan of it. But the parties like lijst DeDekker and NVA have a lot of good thoughts. (btw I'm not saying we are being oppressed I'm saying that some things just aren't right.) and about the islam, if they come here to work and learn our language, what's the problem? I'm just pist off by those who come here and profit from our social security system and start attaking people for no reason.

They will merge with Holland.

No, they will not. Belgium revolted against the Dutch king in 1830 and won their independence that way. It has been over 175 years since Flanders divorced from the Netherlands to hook up with Wallonia. They'll have to solve their differences as adults.

Oh, pfft, if we're gonna do that, let's do it right:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/PIcaRDMPC/ee-mapa.gif

That's pretty much what my most recent game looks like. Pretty soon, Great Britain's going to be on the receiving end of a nuclear strike followed up by a massive Sealion, and then we're going to turn our sights on America.

It's only 1944, so I've got 20 years of game time left to finish things up.

That's pretty much what my most recent game looks like. Pretty soon, Great Britain's going to be on the receiving end of a nuclear strike followed up by a massive Sealion, and then we're going to turn our sights on America.

It's only 1944, so I've got 20 years of game time left to finish things up.
Jeeze, leave something for Italy and Japan...