NationStates Jolt Archive

This can be either South or North American Indian, from any period of time.

I really am in a toss up between Blackhawk, Gall and Red Cloud. Black hawk was a leader of a resistance against the US in the early 1800s in Western Illinois, Eastern Iowa and into Wisconsin. Gall and Red Cloud were Sioux Indians who also lead resistance against the US, but in the late 1800s. I respect the strength and bravery these men had in taking on the expansionist American racists. Usually I am a pacifist, and prefer peace, but in this case I think these men were justified in their fight having been members of an oppressed people. They had seen how peaceful means lead to the demise of many other groups (see the Cherokee), so they decided to fight against the treacherous Americans. I believe Red Cloud even made it possible for the Sioux to have their own land, according to the treaty of Fort Laramie. He caused the American gov't to abandon several forts in the Sioux territory.

Tlaloc, rain god of the Olmec. He was so metal that he insisted upon sacrificing children.

*should I?*

*no, don't, you're bitchy*

*but...*

*just don't*

*:(*

Chief Fred Cantu of the Saginaw Chippewa Tribe, he bought me dinner once because I was home on leave from Iraq.

Montezuma was a pretty cool guy, he killed aliens and doesn't afraid of anything.



























:D

*should I?*

*no, don't, you're bitchy*

*but...*

*just don't*

*:(*


Did I do something wrong again?:$

Wounded Knee? I like the song. :)

Tupac Amaru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Amaru), the last Incan leader and Peruvian legend.

I think Montezuma is a pretty cool guy. eh kills aliens and doesnt afraid of anything.

fix'd

blackhawk

tecumseh

crazy horse

geronimo

osceola

chief joseph

so many.

fix'd

Well I'll be damned! Ya' got meh! :eek:

Montezuma was a pretty cool guy, he killed aliens and doesn't afraid of anything.

:D

I think it's actually spelled Moctezuma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moctezuma_II).

I think it's actually spelled Moctezuma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moctezuma_II).

Montezuma
"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Montezuma, Moctezuma, Moteczoma, Motecuhzoma, Moteuczomah, are variant spellings and may refer to:
Moctezuma I (c.1398-1469), the fifth Aztec emperor
Moctezuma II (1466-1520), the ninth Aztec emperor, ruler at the beginning of the Spanish conquest of Mexico
Eduardo Matos Moctezuma (born 1940) is a Mexican archaeologist

"



I Wikipedia'd your ass :D

Montezuma
"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Montezuma, Moctezuma, Moteczoma, Motecuhzoma, Moteuczomah, are variant spellings and may refer to:
Moctezuma I (c.1398-1469), the fifth Aztec emperor
Moctezuma II (1466-1520), the ninth Aztec emperor, ruler at the beginning of the Spanish conquest of Mexico
Eduardo Matos Moctezuma (born 1940) is a Mexican archaeologist

"



I Wikipedia'd your ass :D

Not so darling boy. It is Moctezuma. My fiancé's Mexican and he confirms the spelling. ;)

Chief Seattle. It's a regional bias, since I grew up in the Seattle area.

Crazy Horse (http://www.crazyhorse.org/) for the win

Crazy horse simply because he is the only one I am familiar with. They are carving him into a mountain uhuh.

Crazy Horse and Geronimo.

And I cannot remember his name, but of of the Canadian native leaders who's tribe fought as allies of the British.

And I cannot remember his name, but of of the Canadian native leaders who's tribe fought as allies of the British.Tecumseh.
He was originally from Indiana, only became "Canadian" after he was chased there.

Chief Chelios of the Blackhawks.

winnetou

I think Buffy St Marie was really cute! (Canadian Indian singer of the 60's and 70's)

Sitting Bull for teaching the 7th Cavalry a lesson in humility.

Chief Tzuhalem. Tzuhalem was an evil Cowichan Indian chief who terrorized southern Vancouver Island in the mid 1800's. He was said to be demented. In 1844 he led an attack on Fort Victoria and massacred all the settlers who did not make it inside the fortress walls. I'm from the Cowican valley and never did like Victoria :) Because he was insane and even his own people hated him he was banished from his tribe, and took up residence in a cave on the side of what is now Mt. Tzuhalem. He had some fourteen wives living with him, most of whom had been widowed by him. Going to Kuper Island to acquire a new wife, Tzuhalem was slain by the woman's husband before Tzuhalem could kill him.

Ok, so what if he wasn't a very nice guy. I hate that commercial image of native americans which the B.C. government sells tourists and is popularized by shows like star trek Voyager. And seeing how history went down, I don't really blame chief Tzuhalem for trying to kill all the white people.

Not so darling boy. It is Moctezuma. My fiancé's Mexican and he confirms the spelling. ;)

Which is impossible to do, considering:

a) It's not a Spanish name and
b) transcribing the name into standard roman orthography will always be an imprecise exercise.

Hence the many spellings.

transcribing the name into standard roman orthography will always be an imprecise exercise.
But, the difference between a velar stop ("k" sound) and a dental nasal ("n" sound) is unambiguous. The "Montezuma" spelling is simply a mistake, from Spaniards not hearing correctly.

Major John Norton

It's Moctezuma, it's a widely spread mistake. "Montezuma", was how Cortés named him, because the "Moc-te" sounded too alien in spanish, while the words "Monte" (hill), and "Zumo" (juice) already existed in spanish.

It's true, there is no REAL spelling of the word in standard roman orthography, but phonetically, Moctezuma is closer than Montezuma.

For me, it's Guaicaipuro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaicaipuro

He was badass, managing to defeat and beat back the conquistadores several times. He even learned to use a steel sword taken from a dead spanish soldier and use it in battle. The guys that finally managed to kill him preferred to set his hut in fire because he was too deadly in hand to hand combat.

(Yet, I'm not into the hype of the goverment to reinstate his image)

Which is impossible to do, considering:

a) It's not a Spanish name and
b) transcribing the name into standard roman orthography will always be an imprecise exercise.

Hence the many spellings.

Which is why, since my fiance's Mexican, that I ascribe to the spelling he uses. Moctezuma is a historical Mexican figure.

Also:
It's Moctezuma, it's a widely spread mistake. "Montezuma", was how Cortés named him, because the "Moc-te" sounded too alien in spanish, while the words "Monte" (hill), and "Zumo" (juice) already existed in spanish.

It's true, there is no REAL spelling of the word in standard roman orthography, but phonetically, Moctezuma is closer than Montezuma.

I think it's actually spelled Moctezuma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moctezuma_II).

If you misspell his name will he be out for revenge?

Gladys Tantaquidgeon.

Alas I know little of Native American history, but my Stepdad is a master. I shall ask him about it sometime.

Neesika

If you misspell his name will he be out for revenge?

Hopefully not. :D

Winnetou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnetou)

*should I?*

*no, don't, you're bitchy*

*but...*

*just don't*

*:(*

You weren't going to say Turok were you?

Last cheif of the Nez Purse, and the three who led the fight against the whites (white right here), at Little Bighorn.

http://www.disney-vacation-time.com/img/pocahontas/pocahontas-2.jpg
Pocahontas.

Because she was so animated, and she could speak to animals :)

Me.

Historical or current? Famous or unknown? Fictional?

Historical - Sequoya - Cherokee - developed an alphabet for the Cherokee language and published the first Cherokee newspaper.

Current - I forget his name, but I met him where I used to work - he was buying land to set up a health and education center in the area - he was a California Mission Indian.

Famous - Wilma Mankiller - former Chief of the Cherokee Nation - instrumental in the rebuilding of the Cherokee Nation.

Unknown - Ramona Suetopka (sp?). She was my roommate at Fresno State College. She was half-Hopi and half Navaho. Participated in the sit-in at Alcatraz.

Fictional - Charlie Moon - a tribal investigator and rancher - Southern Ute. Jim Chee and Joe Leaphorn - Navaho Tribal Police detectives.

What about the crying Indian chief in those old commercials? Washington seems to benefit from being associated with them too, seeing as how they've generally got a kick-ass football team.

Mel Brooks

http://www.geocities.com/imokproductions/GBindianpics.jpg

Tom King, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_King

Daniel Day Lewis.

Daniel Day Lewis.

For he was the Last of the Mohicans!:hail:

Chief Quanna Parker. Mainly due to the fact that I am a descendant of said Chief.

The Employed One

Chief Crazy Horse.

[edit] Crazy Horse Memorial
Crazy Horse is currently being commemorated with the Crazy Horse Memorial in the Black Hills of South Dakota — a monument carved into a mountain, in the tradition of the Mount Rushmore National Memorial (on which Korczak Ziółkowski had worked). The sculpture was begun by Ziółkowski in 1948. When completed, it will be 641 feet (195 m) wide and 563 feet (172 m) high. Though still incomplete because of funding constraints, the sculpture has been criticized by some Native American activists (most notably Russell Means) as exploitative of Lakota culture and Crazy Horse's memory as well as desecrating sacred ground

Wikipedia of all sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Horse

*should I?*

no, the white people are talking now

no, the white people are talking now

Yeah...

that's sort of the feeling I got.

Montezuma was a pretty cool guy, he killed aliens and doesn't afraid of anything.

He was a coward, and probably the most instrumental person in assuring Spanish victory in Mexico. He didn't listen to his advisors to call up the very large Aztec army and defeat the highly-outnumbered Spaniards. His indecisiveness and reliance on superstition made him neglect his people when they needed him most.

*sigh*

As much as I don't want to participate in this culturally ignorant discussion, I'll put my heroes out there nonetheless.

Willie Littlechild (http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/Spring%202007/April/ComWillile1.html) would be among the foremost. From my own nation, he was instrumental in the creation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_the_Rights_of_Indigenous_Peoples). He was the first Treaty Indian in Canada to get a law degree and has had a huge impact on how aboriginal peoples are seen internationally.

Another would be Elijah Harper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Harper), also Cree nation. His was the vote that defeated the Meech Lake accord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meech_Lake_Accord) because it did not fairly represent aboriginal interests. He also organised the Sacred Assemblies (http://www.mountainman.com.au/news96_1.html) which sought to bring aboriginal and non aboriginal people together in a spirit of reconcilliation looong before the Resdential School issue was given political attention.

Another man whom I have met, and who I very much admire is Zacharias Kunuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacharias_Kunuk). He is the director of Atanarjuat (http://www.atanarjuat.com/), the first Inuktitut language film ever created. Honestly, this is the first Canadian aboriginal film, based on an Inuit legend, using the Inuit language, and Inuit actors. It fills my heart with such joy I can hardly express it.

Mariano Aupilaarjuk (http://www.naaf.ca/html/m_aupilaarjuk_e.html) also influenced me greatly during my stay in the North. He is an Inuit elder, and speaks no English. His tirelessness and commitment is awe inspiring.

Outside of my own country, I'd have to say that Rigoberta Menchu Tum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA) has also inspired me greatly. I also had the honour of meeting her during a presentation at our school, when the Elders were welcoming her to our territory.

I admire as well José Huenchunao Mariñán (http://www.mapuche.nl/english/Huenchunao070322.html), a Mapuche from Chile who has battled the absolutely horrendous conditions his people are forced to live in, the rape of their traditional lands, and the constant brutality and racism.

To be honest though, there are so many First Nations, Inuit and Metis people that I admire, here in Canada, and throughout the Americas, that it is hard for me to say whom among them I admire the most. Past and present, indigenous people have been in the forefront of the environmental and social justice movement, and whatever prejudices or ignorances people hold towards us, I am content with our legacy.

I don't have a favorite induvidual.. but I do have some favorite tribes. Around here there were around 13 native tribes, most belonged to the Iriquois nation before French Indian War. Anyway, my favorite is the Conneaut Tribe because they would amuse themselves by ambushing settlers that were out hunting; but instead of killing them would strip them naked and take thier weapons, then they'd leave them near civilization and leave them to thier own devices.

Then there was the Seneca Tribe that attacked and burned down the French Encampment at Ft. Lebouf, the first successful unsupported raid by Natives in the east.

What about the crying Indian chief in those old commercials? Iron Eyes Cody?, not really a chief... hell, not really an Indian. He was born Espera de Corti and changed his name. Reported to be of Sicilian descent...

The Employed One

I just figured this comment deserved a fucking high five btw.:D

http://www.redgreen.com/files/layout/edgar_montrose2.jpg

Graham Greene

Squatting Wolf

Cheif Joseph
Russell Means
Ira Hayes
Ben Nighthorse Campbell
My paternal grandmother
Sherman Alexie

What about the crying Indian chief in those old commercials?

Iron Eyes Cody, nee Espera de Corti, who was not American Indian, but Italian (http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/ironeyes.asp).

*sigh*

As much as I don't want to participate in this culturally ignorant discussion, I'll put my heroes out there nonetheless.

Willie Littlechild (http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/Spring%202007/April/ComWillile1.html) would be among the foremost. From my own nation, he was instrumental in the creation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_the_Rights_of_Indigenous_Peoples). He was the first Treaty Indian in Canada to get a law degree and has had a huge impact on how aboriginal peoples are seen internationally.

Another would be Elijah Harper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Harper). His was the vote that defeated the Meech Lake accord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meech_Lake_Accord) because it did not fairly represente aboriginal interests. He also organised the Sacred Assemblies (http://www.mountainman.com.au/news96_1.html) which sought to bring aboriginal and non aboriginal people together in a spirit of reconcilliation looong before the Resdential School issue was given political attention.

Another man whom I have met, and who I very much admire is Zacharias Kunuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacharias_Kunuk). He is the director of Atanarjuat (http://www.atanarjuat.com/), the first Inuktitut language film ever created. Honestly, this is the first Canadian aboriginal film, based on an Inuit legend, using the Inuit language, and Inuit actors. It fills my heart with such joy I can hardly express it.

Mariano Aupilaarjuk (http://www.naaf.ca/html/m_aupilaarjuk_e.html) also influenced me greatly during my stay in the North. He is an Inuit elder, and speaks no English. His tirelessness and commitment is awe inspiring.

Outside of my own country, I'd have to say that Rigoberta Menchu Tum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA) has also inspired me greatly. I also had the honour of meeting her during a presentation at our school, when the Elders were welcoming her to our territory.

I admire as well José Huenchunao Mariñán (http://www.mapuche.nl/english/Huenchunao070322.html), a Mapuche from Chile who has battled the absolutely horrendous conditions his people are forced to live in, the rape of their traditional lands, and the constant brutality and racism.

To be honest though, there are so many First Nations, Inuit and Metis people that I admire, here in Canada, and throughout the Americas, that it is hard for me to say whom among them I admire the most. Past and present, indigenous people have been in the forefront of the environmental and social justice movement, and whatever prejudices or ignorances people hold towards us, I am content with our legacy.

Thank you for that. :D

I guess I could also add the unknown many times great grandmother that my father, in hushed tones, while looking over his shoulder, told me about. Without her, it's quite possible that I wouldn't be here.

Chief Seattle. It's a regional bias, since I grew up in the Seattle area.

Isn't he the one that said "The Earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the Earth."? That's always been one of my favorite quotes.

There were many great Native American leaders of different nations. Tragic in how they were usually total underdogs who didn't have much of a chance. The USA's dishonorable, unfair and downright racist dealings with the various native nations I think form the most shameful part of our history.

I guess I could also add the unknown many times great grandmother that my father, in hushed tones, while looking over his shoulder, told me about. Without her, it's quite possible that I wouldn't be here.

There is a great deal of controversy in the aboriginal community about those with aboriginal ancestors, who are not themselves 'aboriginal' or who have little connection with the aboriginal community.

On one hand, I emphasize. There are many aboriginal people who have been inescapably defined by their aboriginality because of skin colour, community or culture. There are others who were removed, or shamed out of their aboriginality. The former experienced all the racism and stigma as their ancestors, whilst the latter most likely did not.

But I honestly cannot fault the decisions of some of our ancestors, who chose to live 'white', and assimilate. No more than I can fault those immigrants who felt that teaching their mother tongue to their children would be a disadvantage...who pushed English (or French) on their children so that those children could have opportunities not available otherwise. As a parent especially I cannot fault those decisions.

Whilst I abhor those who capitalise on some tenuous connection to an aboriginal nation, I do feel that there is a legitimacy to the desire to reconnect, because for many, that tie was shorn without their consent, and our teachings tell us that we have a spiritual heritage that never dies. Once an Indian, always an Indian.

I know in the states, the whole "My great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess' phenomenon began earlier, and is more widespread than it is here in Canada, but you do find people here trying to understand their native heritage, even if was simply one grandparent or great-grandparent who was aboriginal. I don't think that makes YOU aboriginal, but I think that it is very important to learn about what that particular person, and group dealt with. Just as I would say of someone with ancestors who were Holocaust survivors, or original settlers from whatever land.

I object to people making rights based arguments on a heritage that is tenuous, and that does not define them, and is recently discovered. I do not, however in any way resent that exploration, or that pride.

Isn't he the one that said "The Earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the Earth."? That's always been one of my favorite quotes.

There were many great Native American leaders of different nations. Tragic in how they were usually total underdogs who didn't have much of a chance. The USA's dishonorable, unfair and downright racist dealings with the various native nations I think form the most shameful part of our history.

Depends on what you mean by 'chance'.

See, I suppose what I object to the most in these discussions is the language used. It's as though we aren't still here. As though we few survived, but nothing of us really remains. People imagine (usually Plains) Indians in all our glory, and lament that we are no longer roaming our territories on European introduced horses, hunting the buffalo.

Yes. We experienced upheaval of a monumental scale. Conquest, war, famine, death...yes, the four horsemen made their mark. What is often overlooked in the histories however, is how we attempted to deal with these changes. The agreements we made, the ways in which we tried to adapt. Not all were successful, but by no means did we lose ourselves entirely.

We have our social problems, we suffer our losses...but speaking as a woman from one of the most traditional communities in Canada, I can say with perfect confidence that our ways are not gone, and that we have done a hell of a job of adapting our particular worldview, and our beliefs to this new age. Nothing turns on technology, and never has. We have always been able to adapt. Underneath it all however, is our particular relationship with the earth and with one another. No one killed that.

There is a great deal of controversy in the aboriginal community about those with aboriginal ancestors, who are not themselves 'aboriginal' or who have little connection with the aboriginal community.

On one hand, I emphasize. There are many aboriginal people who have been inescapably defined by their aboriginality because of skin colour, community or culture. There are others who were removed, or shamed out of their aboriginality. The former experienced all the racism and stigma as their ancestors, whilst the latter most likely did not.

But I honestly cannot fault the decisions of some of our ancestors, who chose to live 'white', and assimilate. No more than I can fault those immigrants who felt that teaching their mother tongue to their children would be a disadvantage...who pushed English (or French) on their children so that those children could have opportunities not available otherwise. As a parent especially I cannot fault those decisions.

Whilst I abhor those who capitalise on some tenuous connection to an aboriginal nation, I do feel that there is a legitimacy to the desire to reconnect, because for many, that tie was shorn without their consent, and our teachings tell us that we have a spiritual heritage that never dies. Once an Indian, always an Indian.

I know in the states, the whole "My great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess' phenomenon began earlier, and is more widespread than it is here in Canada, but you do find people here trying to understand their native heritage, even if was simply one grandparent or great-grandparent who was aboriginal. I don't think that makes YOU aboriginal, but I think that it is very important to learn about what that particular person, and group dealt with. Just as I would say of someone with ancestors who were Holocaust survivors, or original settlers from whatever land.

I object to people making rights based arguments on a heritage that is tenuous, and that does not define them, and is recently discovered. I do not, however in any way resent that exploration, or that pride.

Personally, I've never claimed "Oh I'm Cherokee," except in the context of listing all my various ancestral nationalities. I would never presume to state without qualification that I'm Cherokee, as I'm only a little bit of such, and it's not like many aspects of that culture have been passed on to me from generations ago.

At the same time, however, it really really bugs me when people are like "Oh, you're only a [insert fraction and nationality here]? Well you're not a real [nationality] then." Because where does that leave me? I'm not a majority anything. I don't think I'm even an 8th any one nationality/ethnicity.

And I don't like when people gloss it all over and say "Oh, well you're almost all just white." No, fuck that, Finland, France and Ireland are different nations, the same as Pomo, Lakota and Miwuk are.

I know in the states, the whole "My great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess' phenomenon began earlier, and is more widespread than it is here in Canada, but you do find people here trying to understand their native heritage, even if was simply one grandparent or great-grandparent who was aboriginal. I don't think that makes YOU aboriginal
From growing up in south Virginia, I've come to the opinion that you can't get much whiter than having a single Cherokee ancestor.

I know in the states, the whole "My great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess' phenomenon began earlier, and is more widespread than it is here in Canada, but you do find people here trying to understand their native heritage, even if was simply one grandparent or great-grandparent who was aboriginal. I don't think that makes YOU aboriginal, but I think that it is very important to learn about what that particular person, and group dealt with. Just as I would say of someone with ancestors who were Holocaust survivors, or original settlers from whatever land.

I think the "my great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" thing is just the Native embodiment of the whole "my third uncle twice removed was George Washington."

Which really annoys me, because my great grandmother mapped a large chunk of our genealogy, and my grandfather on the other side did even more, and I am not related to one single famous person in history. Everyone I know seems to be related to Lincoln or Queen Elizabeth or JFK. You know who's in my direct family tree? The personal secretary to Gen. Sherman and the guy who held the bible for Washington when he was sworn in.

That's my family. The secretaries and bible-holders of the rich and famous. Those, of course, were the two notables--the rest were all farmers.

Depends on what you mean by 'chance'.

See, I suppose what I object to the most in these discussions is the language used. It's as though we aren't still here. As though we few survived, but nothing of us really remains. People imagine (usually Plains) Indians in all our glory, and lament that we are no longer roaming our territories on European introduced horses, hunting the buffalo.

Yes. We experienced upheaval of a monumental scale. Conquest, war, famine, death...yes, the four horsemen made their mark. What is often overlooked in the histories however, is how we attempted to deal with these changes. The agreements we made, the ways in which we tried to adapt. Not all were successful, but by no means did we lose ourselves entirely.

We have our social problems, we suffer our losses...but speaking as a woman from one of the most traditional communities in Canada, I can say with perfect confidence that our ways are not gone, and that we have done a hell of a job of adapting our particular worldview, and our beliefs to this new age. Nothing turns on technology, and never has. We have always been able to adapt. Underneath it all however, is our particular relationship with the earth and with one another. No one killed that.

Most of the treaties were broken and now, in the USA at least, those who were left were basically forced to live on the land that nobody else wanted. I was talking about the odds being against the specific leaders who did what they could but ended up losing out, though often not after a long while. Obviously some of the peoples are still around. And of course not all live on the reservations and some keep up the traditions of their cultures. Obviously even if the aboriginal nations had won in the long disputes with the United States government, they wouldn't be still riding around on horses hunting buffalo. But I don't think they'd have been forced off their traditional lands and made to live on reservations, either.

I don't know how it is in Canada, as despite having been outside the USA, I've never been across the northern border. I'll fix that when I have a chance, but that probably won't be soon due to me not having a lot of spare money lying around at the moment. So obviously my perspective comes mainly from how things went here (meaning the USA), which was pretty damn bad.

Personally, I've never claimed "Oh I'm Cherokee," except in the context of listing all my various ancestral nationalities. I would never presume to state without qualification that I'm Cherokee, as I'm only a little bit of such, and it's not like many aspects of that culture have been passed on to me from generations ago.

At the same time, however, it really really bugs me when people are like "Oh, you're only a [insert fraction and nationality here]? Well you're not a real [nationality] then." Because where does that leave me? I'm not a majority anything. I don't think I'm even an 8th any one nationality/ethnicity.

And I don't like when people gloss it all over and say "Oh, well you're almost all just white." No, fuck that, Finland, France and Ireland are different nations, the same as Pomo, Lakota and Miwuk are.

You are what you are, and it's cultural. Where does that leave you? Travel outside your country and you'll soon find your identity.

It is...extremely offensive for people to lay claim to aboriginal heritage when they have absolutely no understanding of it and no direct ties. If you are INTERESTED in your aboriginal heritage, that is one thing...but just as a Finnish person would laugh at you if you claimed to be Finnish, we'd laugh at someone who claimed to be aboriginal and had no actual connection with a living community.

Understanding your history, and defining your own culture, are related, but not exactly similar exercises.

I think the "my great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" thing is just the Native embodiment of the whole "my third uncle twice removed was George Washington."

Which really annoys me, because my great grandmother mapped a large chunk of our genealogy, and my grandfather on the other side did even more, and I am not related to one single famous person in history. Everyone I know seems to be related to Lincoln or Queen Elizabeth or JFK. You know who's in my direct family tree? The personal secretary to Gen. Sherman and the guy who held the bible for Washington when he was sworn in.

That's my family. The secretaries and bible-holders of the rich and famous. Those, of course, were the two notables--the rest were all farmers.

The little bit of Cherokee in my ancestry wasn't any chief or princess or whatever. Just regular people.

Maybe you're not related to anyone hugely famous, but from a different part of my family I'm related to a real monster, so at least you're lucky in that you're not.

I think the "my great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" thing is just the Native embodiment of the whole "my third uncle twice removed was George Washington."

Which really annoys me, because my great grandmother mapped a large chunk of our genealogy, and my grandfather on the other side did even more, and I am not related to one single famous person in history. Everyone I know seems to be related to Lincoln or Queen Elizabeth or JFK. You know who's in my direct family tree? The personal secretary to Gen. Sherman and the guy who held the bible for Washington when he was sworn in.

That's my family. The secretaries and bible-holders of the rich and famous. Those, of course, were the two notables--the rest were all farmers.

So, pretty much you were descended from people who were important rather than famous.

Sinuhue is my favorite Native. :p

I grew up reading about Mary Jemison, because she lived in the Genesee valley where my family is from, so I always liked her. She was a white woman adopted by the Seneca, one of the Iroquois tribes. I'm a white woman with a 1/16th link to the Mohawk, so I guess I'm both less and more Native than she was. :p

I've always been really interested in learning about the Mohawk, since I was little, probably because lots of little girls goes through that "phase", and because my grandmother, who is 1/4th Mohawk and looks every bit it except for the blue eyes, always dismissed it like it was something to be ashamed of. What can I say, I was contrary even as a little kid.

I think my particular interest in the Mohawk is due to that personal connection, but I love studying cultures and languages from around the world, especially Native and ancient cultures, and I would even if I didn't have a drop of Native heritage.

Most of the treaties were broken and now, in the USA at least, those who were left were basically forced to live on the land that nobody else wanted. I was talking about the odds being against the specific leaders who did what they could but ended up losing out, though often not after a long while. Obviously some of the peoples are still around. And of course not all live on the reservations and some keep up the traditions of their cultures. Obviously even if the aboriginal nations had won in the long disputes with the United States government, they wouldn't be still riding around on horses hunting buffalo. But I don't think they'd have been forced off their traditional lands and made to live on reservations, either.

I don't know how it is in Canada, as despite having been outside the USA, I've never been across the northern border. I'll fix that when I have a chance, but that probably won't be soon due to me not having a lot of spare money lying around at the moment. So obviously my perspective comes mainly from how things went here (meaning the USA), which was pretty damn bad.

Oh don't worry, we were forced onto the lands no one wanted as well. And when those lands WERE wanted (ie, when oil was found) we were forced off again.

I could go into a detailed discussion about the differences in the way aboriginal nations in your country have been treated in comparison to how they have been dealt with in Canada, but I don't think this is the place. Suffice it to say that DESPITE having our entire economic systems destroyed, despite being deliberately impoverished, murdered, assimilated, and in some cases legislated out of existence (non-status Indians and the Metis, as an example, until the Constitution Act of 1982 recognised them)...we remain, and on the whole, so does our culture.

What would be really nice, is if more people had some understanding of that. I don't know 2 out of 10 Canadians who have ever stepped foot on a Reservation, despite the fact that most of us live close to at least one, if not more. We are still extremely segregated. For us, this is both a blessing and a curse.

But really. What I mean to get across here is that although we've dealt with some of the most overt attempts to destroy our culture, it remains. We've weathered the storms. That alone should buy us some freaking street cred :D

I think my particular interest in the Mohawk is due to that personal connection, but I love studying cultures and languages from around the world, especially Native and ancient cultures, and I would even if I didn't have a drop of Native heritage.

She:kon.

You are what you are, and it's cultural. Where does that leave you? Travel outside your country and you'll soon find your identity.

It is...extremely offensive for people to lay claim to aboriginal heritage when they have absolutely no understanding of it and no direct ties. If you are INTERESTED in your aboriginal heritage, that is one thing...but just as a Finnish person would laugh at you if you claimed to be Finnish, we'd laugh at someone who claimed to be aboriginal and had no actual connection with a living community.

Understanding your history, and defining your own culture, are related, but not exactly similar exercises.

I've traveled three times outside this country, but only once to anywhere I have any ancestry. And I was too young at the time to really learn about its culture. And travel is expensive.

The trouble is, nobody in my family that I know is an immigrant. None of my grandparents are even the children of immigrants. My great grandmother was, but she died when I was a kid. I envy one of my best friends who is bilingual and has a real connection to the country his mother came from, and still has family there that he knows, and is perfectly comfortable either here or there.

And as for aboriginal heritage, it was so long ago that no one living that I'm related to could tell me much about it. And I don't know where to start beyond that.

Oh don't worry, we were forced onto the lands no one wanted as well. And when those lands WERE wanted (ie, when oil was found) we were forced off again.

I could go into a detailed discussion about the differences in the way aboriginal nations in your country have been treated in comparison to how they have been dealt with in Canada, but I don't think this is the place. Suffice it to say that DESPITE having our entire economic systems destroyed, despite being deliberately impoverished, murdered, assimilated, and in some cases legislated out of existence (non-status Indians and the Metis, as an example, until the Constitution Act of 1982 recognised them)...we remain, and on the whole, so does our culture.

What would be really nice, is if more people had some understanding of that. I don't know 2 out of 10 Canadians who have ever stepped foot on a Reservation, despite the fact that most of us live close to at least one, if not more. We are still extremely segregated. For us, this is both a blessing and a curse.

But really. What I mean to get across here is that although we've dealt with some of the most overt attempts to destroy our culture, it remains. We've weathered the storms. That alone should buy us some freaking street cred :D

Oh, it does. Get street cred, I mean.

So, pretty much you were descended from people who were important rather than famous.

That's a much cheerier way of looking at it!

I sound much more bitter in that post than I am. I find many people's need to push some distant relationship to greatness annoying, but many things annoy me. I don't really mind coming from plain, hard-working people. My mother's side of the tree can be traced back all the way to a woman on the Mayflower, all the way to William the Conqueror bringing his unwashed hordes into England.

None of them were famous, but my family--at least up to the great-greats that I've heard about--were and are hard-working, honest people that built their lives slowly, generation by generation, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. None of my grandparents was born into anything--my mother's parents were both dirt-poor, my father's father a farmer (as my father was in childhood) and my father's mother an immigrant from Germany. They started out with almost nothing, raised families, and watched their children go to college, raise families of their own, and become successful. That's a pretty good legacy to me.

She:kon.

Skennenkowa ken. ^_^

But really. What I mean to get across here is that although we've dealt with some of the most overt attempts to destroy our culture, it remains. We've weathered the storms. That alone should buy us some freaking street cred :D

you know who always impresses me? the jews. how many other cultures that originated in the near eastern bronze age are still alive and kicking? i mean, has anyone seen any hittites recently?

There is a great deal of controversy in the aboriginal community about those with aboriginal ancestors, who are not themselves 'aboriginal' or who have little connection with the aboriginal community.

On one hand, I emphasize. There are many aboriginal people who have been inescapably defined by their aboriginality because of skin colour, community or culture. There are others who were removed, or shamed out of their aboriginality. The former experienced all the racism and stigma as their ancestors, whilst the latter most likely did not.

But I honestly cannot fault the decisions of some of our ancestors, who chose to live 'white', and assimilate. No more than I can fault those immigrants who felt that teaching their mother tongue to their children would be a disadvantage...who pushed English (or French) on their children so that those children could have opportunities not available otherwise. As a parent especially I cannot fault those decisions.

Whilst I abhor those who capitalise on some tenuous connection to an aboriginal nation, I do feel that there is a legitimacy to the desire to reconnect, because for many, that tie was shorn without their consent, and our teachings tell us that we have a spiritual heritage that never dies. Once an Indian, always an Indian.

I know in the states, the whole "My great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess' phenomenon began earlier, and is more widespread than it is here in Canada, but you do find people here trying to understand their native heritage, even if was simply one grandparent or great-grandparent who was aboriginal. I don't think that makes YOU aboriginal, but I think that it is very important to learn about what that particular person, and group dealt with. Just as I would say of someone with ancestors who were Holocaust survivors, or original settlers from whatever land.

I object to people making rights based arguments on a heritage that is tenuous, and that does not define them, and is recently discovered. I do not, however in any way resent that exploration, or that pride.

Well said.

I find it both saddens and amuses me, that for most of history, some part of my ancestral heritage spent most of it's time slaughtering some other part of it.



I am an American, with Scots, Irish and Native ancestry.

Edit: Damn! I REALLY should hate the English. Nah, I'm part English too. Mutts of the world:Unite! *grin*

you know who always impresses me? the jews. how many other cultures that originated in the near eastern bronze age are still alive and kicking? i mean, has anyone seen any hittites recently?

They are impressive. Managing to stay "a people," despite being scattered across the world, and in many places highly discriminated against.

Well said.

I find it both saddens and amuses me, that for most of history, some part of my ancestral heritage spent most of it's time slaughtering some other part of it.



I am an American, with Scots, Irish and Native ancestry.

I have a similar situation. I think many of my ancestors really would not like each other.

I have a similar situation. I think many of my ancestors really would not like each other.

Thankfully at least SOME did, right?

Thankfully at least SOME did, right?

I guess some of them did, as I exist.

Crazy horse simply because he is the only one I am familiar with. They are carving him into a mountain uhuh.

Still? It takes them a long time, unless I am thinking of some other Indian chief that they were carving into a mountain.

This can be either South or North American Indian, from any period of time.

I really am in a toss up between Blackhawk, Gall and Red Cloud. Black hawk was a leader of a resistance against the US in the early 1800s in Western Illinois, Eastern Iowa and into Wisconsin. Gall and Red Cloud were Sioux Indians who also lead resistance against the US, but in the late 1800s. I respect the strength and bravery these men had in taking on the expansionist American racists. Usually I am a pacifist, and prefer peace, but in this case I think these men were justified in their fight having been members of an oppressed people. They had seen how peaceful means lead to the demise of many other groups (see the Cherokee), so they decided to fight against the treacherous Americans. I believe Red Cloud even made it possible for the Sioux to have their own land, according to the treaty of Fort Laramie. He caused the American gov't to abandon several forts in the Sioux territory.
Neesika! :fluffle:

Depends on what you mean by 'chance'.

See, I suppose what I object to the most in these discussions is the language used. It's as though we aren't still here. As though we few survived, but nothing of us really remains. People imagine (usually Plains) Indians in all our glory, and lament that we are no longer roaming our territories on European introduced horses, hunting the buffalo.

Yes. We experienced upheaval of a monumental scale. Conquest, war, famine, death...yes, the four horsemen made their mark. What is often overlooked in the histories however, is how we attempted to deal with these changes. The agreements we made, the ways in which we tried to adapt. Not all were successful, but by no means did we lose ourselves entirely.

We have our social problems, we suffer our losses...but speaking as a woman from one of the most traditional communities in Canada, I can say with perfect confidence that our ways are not gone, and that we have done a hell of a job of adapting our particular worldview, and our beliefs to this new age. Nothing turns on technology, and never has. We have always been able to adapt. Underneath it all however, is our particular relationship with the earth and with one another. No one killed that.
And this is why you're my favorite.

I'm honestly disturbed by these sorts of conversations too, because it's that whole "Stop talking about me as if I'm not standing right next to you!" thing again, and I hate that sort of thing.

About heritage: I allegedly have a Cherokee ancestor, but I don't know if that's true or not. One of these days when I get a chance I'm going to participate in National Geographics DNA mapping thing and find out for sure.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this here guy ('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Ju%C3%A1rez') yet.

My favorite Indian is Indiana Jones.

*Bows*

Tecumseh. Obv.

wavoka, sarra winnimucca, don ryburg, micheal ben ortiz, corn planter, red jacket (whome i MIGHT be related to, but really have no positive idea. my only connection to indiginous ancestry is my father's mother's mother who was onondagwa. i just read and listen a lot. still don't really know anything), of course some of the better known historical figures too. like seattle as already mentioned.

then there's the current crop of present day musicians, like marry youngblood, robert mirabal, the black rock singers, clandykan, donna the buffalo, with out reservation, and so on.

(don ryburg and lilla prouit, are tribal elders of the maidu people, indiginous to the area where i grew up here in the sierra foothills in california. michael ben is one of the volunteer broadcasters on the local noncomercial community radio station, kvmr, who along with skip alan smith, do a show called dreamwalk, started by skip, a nonindiginous, who started the show, of, by and for, indiginous peoples and events, and of course, music, created by people of indiginous origen, like the flute player marry youngblood, who lives sortof "just down the road")

It's a tie between Jim Thorpe and Chief Wahoo.

Will Rogers

Neesika

She's dreamy....

*sigh*

As much as I don't want to participate in this culturally ignorant discussion, I'll put my heroes out there nonetheless.
...

To be honest though, there are so many First Nations, Inuit and Metis people that I admire, here in Canada, and throughout the Americas, that it is hard for me to say whom among them I admire the most. Past and present, indigenous people have been in the forefront of the environmental and social justice movement, and whatever prejudices or ignorances people hold towards us, I am content with our legacy.

My current fave is Sheila Watt-Cloutier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Watt-Cloutier).

Iron Eyes Cody?, not really a chief... hell, not really an Indian. He was born Espera de Corti and changed his name. Reported to be of Sicilian descent...

Now see, never in a million years would I have guessed that guy was an Italian. Absent him being an Indian, I'd have guessed maybe Mexican, but Italian would have never even come up.

Apundzuma, the Aztec God of fertility.

(Kudos to the German-speakers who get it!)


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MULE.gif
25 years

Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce.

"I will fight no more, forever."

Chief Seattle. It's a regional bias, since I grew up in the Seattle area.
Wasn't he the one that DIDN'T want anything named after him when he died?

*sigh*

As much as I don't want to participate in this culturally ignorant discussion, I'll put my heroes out there nonetheless.

Willie Littlechild (http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/Spring%202007/April/ComWillile1.html) would be among the foremost. From my own nation, he was instrumental in the creation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_the_Rights_of_Indigenous_Peoples). He was the first Treaty Indian in Canada to get a law degree and has had a huge impact on how aboriginal peoples are seen internationally.

Another would be Elijah Harper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Harper), also Cree nation. His was the vote that defeated the Meech Lake accord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meech_Lake_Accord) because it did not fairly represent aboriginal interests. He also organised the Sacred Assemblies (http://www.mountainman.com.au/news96_1.html) which sought to bring aboriginal and non aboriginal people together in a spirit of reconcilliation looong before the Resdential School issue was given political attention.

Another man whom I have met, and who I very much admire is Zacharias Kunuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacharias_Kunuk). He is the director of Atanarjuat (http://www.atanarjuat.com/), the first Inuktitut language film ever created. Honestly, this is the first Canadian aboriginal film, based on an Inuit legend, using the Inuit language, and Inuit actors. It fills my heart with such joy I can hardly express it.

Mariano Aupilaarjuk (http://www.naaf.ca/html/m_aupilaarjuk_e.html) also influenced me greatly during my stay in the North. He is an Inuit elder, and speaks no English. His tirelessness and commitment is awe inspiring.

Outside of my own country, I'd have to say that Rigoberta Menchu Tum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA) has also inspired me greatly. I also had the honour of meeting her during a presentation at our school, when the Elders were welcoming her to our territory.

I admire as well José Huenchunao Mariñán (http://www.mapuche.nl/english/Huenchunao070322.html), a Mapuche from Chile who has battled the absolutely horrendous conditions his people are forced to live in, the rape of their traditional lands, and the constant brutality and racism.

To be honest though, there are so many First Nations, Inuit and Metis people that I admire, here in Canada, and throughout the Americas, that it is hard for me to say whom among them I admire the most. Past and present, indigenous people have been in the forefront of the environmental and social justice movement, and whatever prejudices or ignorances people hold towards us, I am content with our legacy.Good thing you spoke up. I was going to nominate him (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://superherouniverse.com/wallpaper/artists/mike/superfriends/apache.jpg&imgrefurl=http://superherouniverse.com/wallpaper/artists/mike/superfriends-apache.htm&h=600&w=800&sz=43&hl=en&start=2&um=1&usg=__hC2eprkz4esFN05MPevnL0GWUNQ=&tbnid=XMxH6-QyvvBA5M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchief%2Bapache%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN).
Yours sounds like better candidates than any I've heard of so far. *nods* :cool:

Grandmother Spider, Coyote, and its been awhile sinse I've spelled this but..., and Hiawatha

Osceola

=)

FREE Leonard Peltier (http://www.leonardpeltier.net/theman.htm)!!!!

Geronimo: An incredible leader, he was driven to evil because his whole family was taken from him. Such a determined, tragic figure. While I could never love him for what he did, I can fully understand him, and admire his end if not his means.

Chakotay from Star Trek: Voyager

Turok.