NationStates Jolt Archive

Yesterday evening when my friends and I were on the bus back to campus we noticed a crowd of students and Gardaí near the Clinton Building. Apparently there were there to protest at Finance Minister Brian Leninhan against the re-introduction of college fees. So we joined in. There's also a much bigger protest planned for Wednesday involving students from all the colleges in Dublin.

Now, the topic of government funded education can wait for another thread. This thread is about protests, you thoughts about them, your experiences in them and the like.

I, for one, actually enjoyed the protest last night. Chanting along with a hundred odd other people is a lot of fun. There was one dumbass who jumped over a barrier and got tackled by three Gardaí, and apparently two people were arrested at the start of the protest, supposedly for no reason other than to intimidate the rest of us.

Have you been a protester, NSG? Maybe you've been on the other side of a protest at some point?

i love to go there jsut to throw stuff at the police to provoke an over reation on their part. thus far i ahve always been able to get out before they start cracking skulls.

Have you been a protester, NSG? Maybe you've been on the other side of a protest at some point?

Unless you enjoy a face full of chemical laden water, being beaten to a bloody mess with nightsticks, held and beaten for indefinite periods of time (up to years) without trial or legal representation, not that it will do you any good, you don't protest (peaceful or not) around here.

It depends on the protests. Most of the ones in my area tend to be over stupid things, so I like to call the police and report that there were murmurs among the protestors about getting violent to get their point across. Always fun to watch someone who's against eating meat and trying to disrupt people's dinner getting clubbed by four cops while sobbing.

i love to go there jsut to throw stuff at the police to provoke an over reation on their part. thus far i ahve always been able to get out before they start cracking skulls.
Remind me never to invite you to a protest.

Unless you enjoy a face full of chemical laden water, being beaten to a bloody mess with nightsticks, held and beaten for indefinite periods of time (up to years) without trial or legal representation, not that it will do you any good, you don't protest (peaceful or not) around here.
o.O
Where do you live again?
Remind me never to invite you to a protest.

Pfft, remind me to check out citizen's arrest laws so I can stop him from running off and deliver him to the cops.

... Where the hell do you live, NAS?

Nah, I've always been more of an antitester...

... Where the hell do you live, NAS?

Philadelphia, they all deserve it to.

Remind me never to invite you to a protest.

if its posted on the net i just show up. you well recognize me with my trench coat on throwing bottles of Urine at the police. Then leaving real fast as soon as the police realize what those were bottles of.

o.O
Where do you live again?


A small nation in South East Asia that likes to pretend it's a democratic (hah) big player, treats ethnic minorities as 2nd class citizens, arrests political dissidents (bloggers included) on charges of sedition when they even talk about unfair government treatment of the ethnic groups, has both secret police and religious police, horribly corrupt to the point where the entire police force can be considered to be on the take, has inconvenient people, including foreigners, assassinated, harasses voters with military assets (infantry to gunships hanging about voting booths) and has been shown on video record to actively manipulate who becomes judges in the Supreme court, not that anything ever came of it.

That should be enough clues to look it up, if you'll excuse the paranoia.

And no, it's not China.

Plenty of protests so far.
Mostly for environmental matters, and against fascism.

A small nation in South East Asia that likes to pretend it's a democratic (hah) big player, treats ethnic minorities as 2nd class citizens, arrests political dissidents (bloggers included) on charges of sedition when they even talk about unfair government treatment of the ethnic groups, has both secret police and religious police, horribly corrupt to the point where the entire police force can be considered to be on the take, has inconvenient people, including foreigners, assassinated, harasses voters with military assets (infantry to gunships hanging about voting booths) and has been shown on video record to actively manipulate who becomes judges in the Supreme court, not that anything ever came of it.

That should be enough clues to look it up, if you'll excuse the paranoia.

And no, it's not China.

I think I'll just avoid the whole region. Just to be safe.

Pfft, remind me to check out citizen's arrest laws so I can stop him from running off and deliver him to the cops.

that's what Plan B is for. I remove the trench coat and underneath is a T-shirt that says God bless America and has an American flag on it. I then scream about help I am being assault by a hippie just be cause i don't agree with the protest. normally the police beat the snot out of whoever is holding me no questions asked. I also wear a hat from the local police officers organization. (sort of like union but not quite)


An added plus is you likely will get arrested for throwing the piss too.

A small nation in South East Asia that likes to pretend it's a democratic (hah) big player, treats ethnic minorities as 2nd class citizens, arrests political dissidents (bloggers included) on charges of sedition when they even talk about unfair government treatment of the ethnic groups, has both secret police and religious police, horribly corrupt to the point where the entire police force can be considered to be on the take, has inconvenient people, including foreigners, assassinated, harasses voters with military assets (infantry to gunships hanging about voting booths) and has been shown on video record to actively manipulate who becomes judges in the Supreme court, not that anything ever came of it.

That should be enough clues to look it up, if you'll excuse the paranoia.

And no, it's not China.Singapore? Thailand?

A small nation in South East Asia that likes to pretend it's a democratic (hah) big player, treats ethnic minorities as 2nd class citizens, arrests political dissidents (bloggers included) on charges of sedition when they even talk about unfair government treatment of the ethnic groups, has both secret police and religious police, horribly corrupt to the point where the entire police force can be considered to be on the take, has inconvenient people, including foreigners, assassinated, harasses voters with military assets (infantry to gunships hanging about voting booths) and has been shown on video record to actively manipulate who becomes judges in the Supreme court, not that anything ever came of it.

That should be enough clues to look it up, if you'll excuse the paranoia.

And no, it's not China.

Well, that narrows it down to about fifty states.

Singapore? Thailand?

Geographically close, but Singapore's fairly civil and fair if harsh, and Thailand at least doesn't harass voters or jail bloggers for comments on government treatment of minorities. Both also lack religious police.

Geographically close, but Singapore's fairly civil and fair if harsh, and Thailand at least doesn't harass voters or jail bloggers for comments on government treatment of minorities. Both also lack religious police.

Malaysia?

Malaysia?

Maybe is all I'll say. I'm lucky the government at least doesn't bother to monitor externally hosted sites. Actually, wait, they do for some. I know there was at least one Youtube user who got his citizenship revoked for making a spoof of the national anthem while studying abroad, and the government has an arrest warrant for him.

Oh yes, did I forget to mention that they also outlawed a local human rights group as a "terrorist organization"?

Have you been a protester, NSG? Maybe you've been on the other side of a protest at some point?

Yes and yes. I went to a couple anti-Iraq War protests in Ann Arbor, Michigan and did riot control in Ramadi and Fallujah, one a protest against the governor of the Anbar Governorate (who is a huge douche and I'd wished someone had managed to get him) and one against the mayor of Fallujah, also a douche. Note that my anti-protest activities occurred before my taking part in protests myself.

I went on quite a lot of anti-Thatcher protests (whatever happened to the Blessed Chris?), the Poll Tax Demo, demos against the US bombing of Libya, Miner's Strike Rallies. Not been on anything for a long time now.

Maybe is all I'll say. I'm lucky the government at least doesn't bother to monitor externally hosted sites. Actually, wait, they do for some. I know there was at least one Youtube user who got his citizenship revoked for making a spoof of the national anthem while studying abroad, and the government has an arrest warrant for him.

Oh yes, did I forget to mention that they also outlawed a local human rights group as a "terrorist organization"?

I wonder if they give rewards for passing along information that helps them jail dissidents.

that's what Plan B is for. I remove the trench coat and underneath is a T-shirt that says God bless America and has an American flag on it. I then scream about help I am being assault by a hippie just be cause i don't agree with the protest. normally the police beat the snot out of whoever is holding me no questions asked. I also wear a hat from the local police officers organization. (sort of like union but not quite)


An added plus is you likely will get arrested for throwing the piss too.

+1 for being in Ireland, where no amount of patriotic screaming will distract the cops from arresting you.

+1 for being in Ireland, where no amount of patriotic screaming will distract the cops from arresting you.

In fact, it may even make them target you.

+1 for being in Ireland, where no amount of patriotic screaming will distract the cops from arresting you.

i don't do that in other countries. just wouldn't be right for me to screw with their process of protesting. Though the hate normally labels me as a donor to the injured policeman's fund. So I don't know if that is even possible in Ireland. But state side the hate i have found gets my a large amount of leniency out of tickets and various other small charges.

In fact, it may even make them target you.
Indeed.
i don't do that in other countries. just wouldn't be right for me to screw with their process of protesting. Though the hate normally labels me as a donor to the injured policeman's fund. So I don't know if that is even possible in Ireland. But state side the hate i have found gets my a large amount of leniency out of tickets and various other small charges.

Yay, so I won't get wrongfully arrested for your acts of assault. :)

One of my friends tried to persuade me go to an anti-fascist counter-protest when something BNP-related was happening in London (A meeting, a demonstration, I forget precisely what). I decided not to, and was glad I didn't when I found out that him and a few of his friends had been beaten and arrested for randomly insulting a group of police and then attacking them (apparently because the police were protecting the 'fascist pigs')

I wonder if they give rewards for passing along information that helps them jail dissidents.

You're not an ethnic majority. Consider yourself lucky if all that happens is that you'll be stiffed, and then asked to pay bribes to keep you out of jail.

A small nation in South East Asia that likes to pretend it's a democratic (hah) big player, treats ethnic minorities as 2nd class citizens, arrests political dissidents (bloggers included) on charges of sedition when they even talk about unfair government treatment of the ethnic groups, has both secret police and religious police, horribly corrupt to the point where the entire police force can be considered to be on the take, has inconvenient people, including foreigners, assassinated, harasses voters with military assets (infantry to gunships hanging about voting booths) and has been shown on video record to actively manipulate who becomes judges in the Supreme court, not that anything ever came of it.

That should be enough clues to look it up, if you'll excuse the paranoia.

And no, it's not China.

I'm going to guess Bhutan, but really, the whole region is kinda on the list to one degree or another.

A small nation in South East Asia that likes to pretend it's a democratic (hah) big player, treats ethnic minorities as 2nd class citizens, arrests political dissidents (bloggers included) on charges of sedition when they even talk about unfair government treatment of the ethnic groups, has both secret police and religious police, horribly corrupt to the point where the entire police force can be considered to be on the take, has inconvenient people, including foreigners, assassinated, harasses voters with military assets (infantry to gunships hanging about voting booths) and has been shown on video record to actively manipulate who becomes judges in the Supreme court, not that anything ever came of it.

That should be enough clues to look it up, if you'll excuse the paranoia.

And no, it's not China.

Indonesia?

I'm going to guess Bhutan, but really, the whole region is kinda on the list to one degree or another.

Indonesia?

Laerod got the closest in terms of geographic proximity.

Yesterday evening when my friends and I were on the bus back to campus we noticed a crowd of students and Gardaí near the Clinton Building. Apparently there were there to protest at Finance Minister Brian Leninhan against the re-introduction of college fees. So we joined in. There's also a much bigger protest planned for Wednesday involving students from all the colleges in Dublin.

Aw jesus. Again? Nothing's changed since I left then.

There was one dumbass who jumped over a barrier and got tackled by three Gardaí, and apparently two people were arrested at the start of the protest, supposedly for no reason other than to intimidate the rest of us.
Good. (Sorry, I just dislike students protesting about inane topics - that and I like schadenfreude)

Have you been a protester, NSG? Maybe you've been on the other side of a protest at some point?

Anti Iraq War march back in the day.

I keep an eye on the website for an anti-choice group to see if they're holding the same sort of protest they had last year so I can organize a counter-protest.

I'd like to engage in a demonstration some day, but I'm far too afraid of the authorities and the government in the country I live in.

U.S. btw...

I've only been to two protests. One was when my dad was on strike, and I don't remember what they were protesting (it was unrelated to the strike) and the other was to protest Sally Kern.

I don't know that we made any difference either time.

My protest will come in form of a resistance when this election is stolen. I've got it set up already ;)

I am going to protest this thread *starts marching* HELL NO WE WONT GO

The Nationstates General forum members doth protest too much, methinks.

Anarchist scum:p

The Nationstates General forum members doth protest too much, methinks.

Anarchist scum:p

Mine balance out as I've helped to put down as many protests as I have engaged in.

Have you been a protester, NSG?

Yes. It's generally utterly pointless but can be great fun.

Only a couple times. Not as often as I should have. It was fun, and I intend to do it again.

Mine balance out as I've helped to put down as many protests as I have engaged in.

My favourite writer has been George Orwell. One of his early novels was "Burmese Days" where he wrote about his experiences working for the Police. He became thoroughly disillusioned with his role - enforcing British imperialism. He joined the POUM (a Spanish Socialist Party) and fought against fascism in the late 30's but was shot in the throat. His experiences in Spain are recorded in his great "Homage to Catalonia" novel. He saw how the Stalinist Communist Party in Spain totally betrayed the Spanish people and the truth an dhe resolved to fight against totalitarianism in all its forms (Hence, "Animal Farm" and "1984")

Orwell influenced my strongly and I was printing off underground anti-war newspapers while still in high school in 1970. When I went to Monash University in 1971 I was swept up in the anti-conscription and anti-apartheid struggles.
The last time I was arrested was in 1986 for tearing down the old South African flag from a bridge across a busy road - it was rather scary as I had to tear the flag off and I was standing on a girder with no support and cars whizzing beneath me - but I tore it down!

I still go to the odd protest but i know in my heart that protests are actually a distraction. Sure they're fun and all that -eespecially when you are young and want to play rebel with a cause. However, the real solution lies in creating economic structures that can replace Capitalism and State socialism - to do away with bosses so that we no longer need to protest things as much. We protest because there are bosses and leaders who abuse their power. So we need to build structures that are democratic enough to withstand them and their nasty little ego games.
The 3 Cs - communes, co-ops and collectives.....be your own boss (collectively):)

I can't be arsed to protest for anything.

What??? You're Spanish and you don't protest?
Ay caramba!

I've been to one or two. None since the anti-Iraqwar protests I don't think.

You're not an ethnic majority. Consider yourself lucky if all that happens is that you'll be stiffed, and then asked to pay bribes to keep you out of jail.

just do it through email

My favourite writer has been George Orwell. One of his early novels was "Burmese Days" where he wrote about his experiences working for the Police. He became thoroughly disillusioned with his role - enforcing British imperialism.

That's certainly understandable.

Protests?

I have spent entire weeks in protests. This is Venezuela. Back in 2002, I only went to home for sleep for two weeks in a row. 14 days in street protests, that in the end were prolongued by months. At first I went as a disgruntled student, but I also used to work as a street reporter, and I had to attend to scores of marches and protests as a job.

My guess at this time is that I have inhaled enough tear gas as to suffer from lung problems at old age, I even know the best methods to avoid the worse effects, (vinegar doesn't help, specially against triphasic bombs). I have been hit with nighsticks, and once a National Guard hit my shin with something they call here "Peinilla", it's similar to a machete but with a dull edge. I have escaped by few meters of massed discharges of rubber bullets and buckshot shells, that were used by police to dissolve protests. I know everything about anti riot gear, and about home made ways to combat police.

I have been in marches and protests where shots has been fired. In one infamous march, April 11 in 2002, a friend of mine got shot several times in the chest at less than four meters from where I was standing. Luckily, I have never been hit by stones, or even worse, gas grenades. Believe me, being hit by a gas grenade is as bad as being hit by a bulllet, if you take one in the head, it's going to crack open your skull like a watermelon.

Believe me, I am glad that those times were over. I miss the thrill and the adrenaline flow a bit, but it's better this way. Last marches I attended, I used a bulletproof vest , a helmet and a gas mask, I guess I am growing old and tired of the same shit over and over again. That was several months ago, this country has been peaceful this year.

I have seen abuses from both sides of the political fence. Policemen and protesters go wild. It's dangerous out there when people start building collective aggressive conscience and forgets about their own survival instincts. In the end, the most important thing I learned is that no matter what you try to achieve through street protests, you usually don't make it.

What??? You're Spanish and you don't protest?
Ay caramba!

Indeed. I'm Spanish and I don't protest. Am I an oddity?:eek2:

Indeed. I'm Spanish and I don't protest. Am I an oddity?:eek2:

I think he has France and Spain confused.

I have to admit, I wouldn't mind being deputized to bring a protest under control.

I think he has France and Spain confused.

Perhaps.

lol, I accidentally joined in with a BNP protest once, just walked out of the pub one day, saw a load of protesters, essentially shouting 'Fuck Labour', I thought I would join in for the hell of it, unaware of who they actually were. I only later cached on when I noticed how the crowd wasn't your usual type of middle class pompous leftists, but rather mainly working class bald headed blokes, and when I noticed they were holding a bizarrely high amount of English flags for you average English protest.

Protest against the US government should be considered treason. I could understand if it was a facist dictatorship, but come on people. The US is a free country, So yes, I believe people have the right to protest about gay rights and such, but when you protest violently against the government that is doing its best, and has protected you for the last 8 years, you are mental.

Protest against the US government should be considered treason. I could understand if it was a facist dictatorship, but come on people. The US is a free country, So yes, I believe people have the right to protest about gay rights and such, but when you protest violently against the government that is doing its best, and has protected you for the last 8 years, you are mental.Dude, the US is a country founded by traitors that protested.

I have to admit, I wouldn't mind being deputized to bring a protest under control.

You might if the protest got out of control and you had to take rather severe measures against it. For example, the effect an M240B has on a crowd isn't exactly something you want to see, much less be the cause of (I should clarify that I never fired an M240B at a crowd, but I have seen it).

Protest against the US government should be considered treason. I could understand if it was a facist dictatorship, but come on people. The US is a free country, So yes, I believe people have the right to protest about gay rights and such, but when you protest violently against the government that is doing its best, and has protected you for the last 8 years, you are mental.

If it were considered treason the US would no longer be a free country.

I've done a few vigils against the war ect. The fact is that the state ignores peacful protests, I admire the ALF and ELF for actually taking action, although not protesting.

I may have over exagerated, but what I am saying is that, people have lost All dignity, and loyalty over the years. It probably is the War in Iraq. Yes we went in, We can't change thet, unless we have a time machine, but people need to see the fact that we won, and Iraq won.

but people need to see the fact that we won, and Iraq won.

What?

What?Don't you be using first hand experience to disprove his point now. That wouldn't be fair.

I'm trying to be a Cop myself, so unfortunately no protesting against things I vehemently disagree with for me in the forseeable future. Gotta maintain my relatively clean record after all....

Don't you be using first hand experience to disprove his point now. That wouldn't be fair.

I'm mostly curious as to how he meant that.

I've seen things from the police side only, and working as just a 'passive' making sure things don't get out of hand, and calling in the riot police if things do, and I've also worked as riot police twice. Once they backed down when we showed in full gear, the other time it was ugly to say the least.

Last marches I attended, I used a bulletproof vest , a helmet and a gas mask, I guess I am growing old and tired of the same shit over and over again.

Can I buy these off you?

just do it through email

Trying to live up to your name I see. Doesn't matter. Few people here ever leave identifying trails on the net.

Can I buy these off you?

Only the gas mask is mine. Both the helmet and the bulletproof vest were property of the newspaper, that gave them to us to protect our asses out there. They had "PRESS" in white letters all over them.

I don't make that street work anymore, in any case.

As a side note, what I found really cute is that during a certain amount of time, certain protestors, (and some military National Guards), targeted journalists and reporters over anyone when they threw gas grenades, buck shot, or stones. When that started to happen, many people started using hats, caps and jackets with the logos of the newspapers or TV channels, or just saying "PRENSA", (press), to avoid letting them target us, even if that meant that they were in higher risk of getting any. I'm still greatly thankful for that.

Only the gas mask is mine. Both the helmet and the bulletproof vest were property of the newspaper, that gave them to us to protect our asses out there. They had "PRESS" in white letters all over them.


If the filters still work, the gas mask will still be useful. They use gas a lot here, and tend to have wider aim than just the crowds when using them.

I've been on lots of protests. The most recent one was a few hours ago, when I went along to Parliament with Catholics for a Free Choice for a short while. Some of the most fun ones included:
- this year's 'Close Guantanamo Bay' protest outside the US embassy, when it pisssed it down for an hour, but we stuck it out;
- in Leicester Square, protesting Jamaican laws on rape, where we accidentally picketed the new (one before this) James Bond movie;
- an anti-BNP one which descended into less than civil discourse;
- an anti-globalisation one last year where I took my 'Free Trade is Quite Nice' sign and got some unhappy glares.

I don't really think many protests 'change' things, but I think they have a role, and can be useful for building activist social capital. I wouldn't have got involved in some of the refugee stuff I do know, for example, if it hadn't been for the sleep-out we did with Amnesty earlier this year for Still Human, Still Here.

Have you been a protester, NSG? Maybe you've been on the other side of a protest at some point?
I protested my little hiney off for years and years. Still do when I feel it's necessary to support an action. I have been tear gassed, got caught in some pepper spray, I've been shoved by cops, had my hair pulled, my shirt ripped, been thrown against a wall, was arrested and tossed in the paddywagon with a bunch of other folks, and then experienced the sweet little game of 'oops, have to hit the breaks!" which, when your hands are restrained behind you, means you either hit your head against the metal barrier or fall against the person beside you...(they needed the van for more serious folks so they stopped and kicked us out thankfully)...though really, protests in North America are freaking Sunday afternoon parades compared to some of the shit I didn't actually intend to be caught up in when travelling Latin America. Chile was the worst...I hate the guanacos. Also having to pee on your bandana.

But aside from that negative shit, I loved organising with people because it was a great way to get to know other groups, and form contacts, and you ended up working with fantastic people after the protests because of it. Protesting, for me, was one tiny little fraction of my activism, and at times it annoyed me because for a while there, it was so popular that it became a sort of a joke. We had 'groupies'. That sucked cuz the sex wasn't even great.

It's really invigorating though, a great way to get going...but if that's ALL you do...well. Not so great.

Trying to live up to your name I see. Doesn't matter. Few people here ever leave identifying trails on the net.

somewhat recent news involving the Chinese government and various search engines beg to differ.

Protest against the US government should be considered treason. I could understand if it was a facist dictatorship, but come on people. The US is a free country, So yes, I believe people have the right to protest about gay rights and such, but when you protest violently against the government that is doing its best, and has protected you for the last 8 years, you are mental.

<Licks Augmark>

You're silly. I'm going to make you my special friend. So, if the government has been protecting me, who's been protecting me from the government?

I may have over exagerated, but what I am saying is that, people have lost All dignity, and loyalty over the years. It probably is the War in Iraq. Yes we went in, We can't change thet, unless we have a time machine, but people need to see the fact that we won, and Iraq won.

What?

We won the booby prize. Specifically the booby that's been in office the past (almost) 8 years.

If the wind changes, you can smell the deep heat....
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1022/budgethealth.html

Have you been a protester, NSG?
Aye. Went to a couple of Iraq rallies and then some NUS pish about keeping a cap on fees a couple of years ago.

Utter waste of time.

Here are Steppenwolf's Lyrics protesting about the Draft during the Vietnam War days:
Words and music by John Kay and Goldie McJohn

He was talkin' 'bout the army while he passed his pipe around
An American deserter who found peace on Swedish ground
He had joined to seek adventure and to prove himself a man
But they tried to crush his spirit 'til his conscience ruined their plans
And we thought of those who suffer for the sake of honesty
All those who refuse to follow traitors to humanity

Here's to all the draft resisters who will fight for sanity
When they march them off to prison in this land of liberty

Heed the threat and awesome power of the mighty Pentagon
Which is wasting precious millions on the toys of Washington

Don't forget the Draft Resisters and their silent, lonely plea
When they march them off to prison, they will go for you and me

Shame, disgrace and all dishonor, wrongly placed upon their heads
Will not rob them of the courage which betrays the innocent


Copyright MCA Music (BMI)
All rights for the USA controlled and administered by
MCA Corporation of America, INC

well, i don't think its an 'utter waste of time'. it's the only counter most people have to the lobbying by economic intrests. yes, its a bit quixotic in a way. i think the main problem most people don't seem to understand is that of mixed messages.

i mean, all the protest in the world, isn't going to chainge something if we keep creating incintives for the same things we protest against at the same time we're doing so.

and incentives, what the way we live, the priorities we practice that we don't usually think about, what THEY create incentives for, by their statistical combining from all of us, well that's where they come from and thats where, by the're motiviating it, all the conditions we're surrounded by, that each of us has to individually experience comes from.

the vote at the cash register always counts. so we really need to think about, do our homework about, what all of us togather are creating incentives for, and then dicipline our selves, as much as each of us can, as much as each of us are permitted by the realities that surround us, to make our ways of life such that the incentives they add up to create, in turn motivate, the kind of world we actually do want to live in.

i think protesters are heros of sort, more so perhapse that anyone wearing a uniform. but the proccess, isn't entirely futile, but its kind of like an uphill battle at a disadvantage, where as there is real, if hidden, leverage, in the priorities of the ways we actually live.

When I was in Washington DC in the summer of 2007, there was an anti-Zionist protest going on outside the Capitol Building and I joined in the pro-Zionist counter-protest and I got into shouting matches with some of the anti-Zionists.

As an ethnic Jew with family in Israel, I have a deep hatred for anti-Zionists... Apparently, according to these extreme leftist punks, killing people is wrong... Unless those people are Israeli.

When I was in Washington DC in the summer of 2007, there was an anti-Zionist protest going on outside the Capitol Building and I joined in the pro-Zionist counter-protest and I got into shouting matches with some of the anti-Zionists.

As an ethnic Jew with family in Israel, I have a deep hatred for anti-Zionists... Apparently, according to these extreme leftist punks, killing people is wrong... Unless those people are Israeli.

Dear Rathanan,
You shouldn't hate. Jews will survive through love not hate. I'm half-Jewish and I love many aspects of Judaism but over six thousand years of history, there is a lot to atone for - on all sides. When Jews and Arabs turn their swords into ploughshares and rejoice that they are all the children of Abraham then we will know that Mosiach has arrived.:)

When I was in Washington DC in the summer of 2007, there was an anti-Zionist protest going on outside the Capitol Building and I joined in the pro-Zionist counter-protest and I got into shouting matches with some of the anti-Zionists.

As an ethnic Jew with family in Israel, I have a deep hatred for anti-Zionists... Apparently, according to these extreme leftist punks, killing people is wrong... Unless those people are Israeli.

What "extreme leftists"?
What exactly were they protesting about?

As an ethnic Jew with family in Israel, I have a deep hatred for anti-Zionists... Apparently, according to these extreme leftist punks, killing people is wrong... Unless those people are Israeli.

I have a real problem with some of the anti-Zionists on the left. I'm not a fan of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, but I can mount that support without getting into the ugly anti-Semitism that some lefties seem to indulge in all too often. What annoys me more is how they pretend they aren't being anti-Semitic.

I'm not a fan of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians

Jew hating bitch.

Jew hating bitch.

Eh? where'd that come from? Did you read the whole post?

But when you want money for people with mind's that hate...
All I can tell you is "Brother, you'll have to wait."

Eh? where'd that come from? Did you read the whole post?

But when you want money for people with mind's that hate...
All I can tell you is "Brother, you'll have to wait."You might want to read up on their post history for context.

Did you read the whole post?

why would I listen to the words of an obvious anti-semite?

*cough* I just stumbled over Poe's Law didn't I?

Meh. I marched against the hunting ban, but that's really about it. Far better things to do with my time than pretend that popular pressure and protest will accomplish anything on a national level.

why would I listen to the words of an obvious anti-semite?

*cough* I just stumbled over Poe's Law didn't I?

Are you being serious or satirical? I can't tell...

I've never protested, I've no desire to protest, and as a public servant, there are more effective ways for me to change things about the system that I view as wrong--such as targeting the offending entity with the oversight powers I (through my department) am granted by statute.

Beyond that, my time is already way too valuable for me to waste it doing something that will, at best, bring about incremental change. I had a prof get all itchy about the fact that my generation doesn't do the sort of mass protests that she recalled from the sixties and seventies. She doesn't seem to understand that the marginal value of protesting has been shown, by her generation ironically enough, to be super-minimal.

Why bother.

Jew hating bitch.

Hey I can guarantee you I've sucked more kosher cock than you have. Who's the REAL jew hater, hmmm?

I protested my little hiney off for years and years. Still do when I feel it's necessary to support an action. I have been tear gassed, got caught in some pepper spray, I've been shoved by cops, had my hair pulled, my shirt ripped, been thrown against a wall, was arrested and tossed in the paddywagon with a bunch of other folks, and then experienced the sweet little game of 'oops, have to hit the breaks!" which, when your hands are restrained behind you, means you either hit your head against the metal barrier or fall against the person beside you...
I don't understand...

You say you stopped?


Isn't that just what happened last time GoG visited?

:tongue:


*Flees*

I protested my little hiney off for years and years. Still do when I feel it's necessary to support an action. I have been tear gassed, got caught in some pepper spray, I've been shoved by cops, had my hair pulled, my shirt ripped, been thrown against a wall, was arrested and tossed in the paddywagon with a bunch of other folks, and then experienced the sweet little game of 'oops, have to hit the breaks!" which, when your hands are restrained behind you, means you either hit your head against the metal barrier or fall against the person beside you...

HAHA you damn dirty hippie that's what you get.

Better to fall against the person next to you. I've been in that situation.
You can fall against me anytime Neesika!

Never let the fire die out!

Been there... It was fun while it lasted, denying the NPD entry to the city.

http://media.de.indymedia.org/images/2005/10/130892.jpg

To quote Indiana Jones: "Nazis. I hate these guys."

Been there... It was fun while it lasted, denying the NPD entry to the city.



To quote Indiana Jones: "Nazis. I hate these guys."

Yeah.


Nice uniforms though. Back in the day.

My dad was tear-gassed once when he was in college. He wasn't protesting, though. He was buying his college textbooks. It just so happened that there was a protest on the same street. The episode I think partly triggered his total hatred for Ronald Reagan, who was the governor at the time and who had ordered the crackdown.

Myself I haven't been part of a protest yet. I always seem to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Of course, in Santa Cruz, they happen so often that it's become ordinary and so I'm not motivated to go to one, since Santa Cruz kids will protest anything. Literally, anything.

My dad was tear-gassed once when he was in college. He wasn't protesting, though. He was buying his college textbooks. It just so happened that there was a protest on the same street. The episode I think partly triggered his total hatred for Ronald Reagan, who was the governor at the time and who had ordered the crackdown.

I had a buddy get the shit tear-gassed out of him (a grenade landed about 2m in front of him) for no real reason. He was staying at a friend's house in East Lansing several years back (I think in 1999) when a student riot broke out. He got woke up (at about 5:00pm) by the noise and stumbled out the door, extremely hung-over only to be the recipient of his very own tear-gas grenade. Luckily for him the ELPD left him alone as the riot continued on its way.

I had a buddy get the shit tear-gassed out of him (a grenade landed about 2m in front of him) for no real reason. He was staying at a friend's house in East Lansing several years back (I think in 1999) when a student riot broke out. He got woke up (at about 5:00pm) by the noise and stumbled out the door, extremely hung-over only to be the recipient of his very own tear-gas grenade. Luckily for him the ELPD left him alone as the riot continued on its way.

Wow. That's one of the shittiest ways I've ever heard to start one's day.

Have you been a protester, NSG? Maybe you've been on the other side of a protest at some point?
haven't found any cause to get me to the point of protesting out in the open.

Protesting in the open allows your picture to be taken and a file to be created on you.

same with signing petitions.

I prefer to work 'behind the scenes'. let others take the glory.

Yesterday evening when my friends and I were on the bus back to campus we noticed a crowd of students and Gardaí near the Clinton Building. Apparently there were there to protest at Finance Minister Brian Leninhan against the re-introduction of college fees. So we joined in. There's also a much bigger protest planned for Wednesday involving students from all the colleges in Dublin.

Now, the topic of government funded education can wait for another thread. This thread is about protests, you thoughts about them, your experiences in them and the like.

I, for one, actually enjoyed the protest last night. Chanting along with a hundred odd other people is a lot of fun. There was one dumbass who jumped over a barrier and got tackled by three Gardaí, and apparently two people were arrested at the start of the protest, supposedly for no reason other than to intimidate the rest of us.

Have you been a protester, NSG? Maybe you've been on the other side of a protest at some point?

In the 1980s, I regularly beat German protesters.

I was perfectly fine with the protesting - hey, if you have freedom of speech...

but if you want to climb up on the nuclear missile launcher, and try to damage it, you're taking a one-way trip to the hospital emergency room, courtesy of me.

Of course, in Santa Cruz, they happen so often that it's become ordinary and so I'm not motivated to go to one, since Santa Cruz kids will protest anything. Literally, anything.
When I was in Santa Cruz I started to notice that our protests had become tourist attractions. I'm waiting for some intrepid protester to capitalize on that and start selling souvenirs. I like the outspokenness of people in Santa Cruz even though I would often find myself thinking, "Oh no, Santa Cruz is against it! Who'da'thunk!" Like when we passed the resolution against the Iraq war-I was glad they did it, but really it went without saying that Santa Cruz disapproved. It wasn't like Bush was going to ignore the biggest global protest in history but get a memo about our resolution and say, "We've lost Santa Cruz, we don't have the support for this war!"

Ah well, just because 'no one cares' it doesn't mean that you shouldn't say it sometimes...

When I was in Santa Cruz I started to notice that our protests had become tourist attractions. I'm waiting for some intrepid protester to capitalize on that and start selling souvenirs. I like the outspokenness of people in Santa Cruz even though I would often find myself thinking, "Oh no, Santa Cruz is against it! Who'da'thunk!" Like when we passed the resolution against the Iraq war-I was glad they did it, but really it went without saying that Santa Cruz disapproved. It wasn't like Bush was going to ignore the biggest global protest in history but get a memo about our resolution and say, "We've lost Santa Cruz, we don't have the support for this war!"

Ah well, just because 'no one cares' it doesn't mean that you shouldn't say it sometimes...

It's not the ones for worthy causes I mind. It's just that everything seems to get a protest here, now. No matter what it is.

Better to fall against the person next to you. I've been in that situation.
You can fall against me anytime Neesika!

Never let the fire die out!

Yeah, I was sitting beside a cute activist boy. He was the one getting his head smacked. But we definitely had a 'moment' while we were sitting together on our way to the station:D

I don't understand...

You say you stopped?


Isn't that just what happened last time GoG visited?

:tongue:


*Flees*

That's not protesting, that's just sex.

:D

Now I don't protest so much...I actually get real shit done:)

but if you want to climb up on the nuclear missile launcher, and try to damage it, you're taking a one-way trip to the hospital emergency room, courtesy of me.

Because trying to damage something that could potentially kill millions is worthy of being beaten half to death.

I had a buddy get the shit tear-gassed out of him (a grenade landed about 2m in front of him) for no real reason. He was staying at a friend's house in East Lansing several years back (I think in 1999) when a student riot broke out. He got woke up (at about 5:00pm) by the noise and stumbled out the door, extremely hung-over only to be the recipient of his very own tear-gas grenade. Luckily for him the ELPD left him alone as the riot continued on its way.

Two meters is bad, but I had one landed just between my feet.

I was in a protest of like 100 hundred people, with some friends and my dad, waving flags and all the usual nice stuff, but we were cutting off traffic in a main street, so a squad of national guards in full riot gear come mounted in bikes and shouting like 30 minutes afterwards.

I run as the rest of the people, imagining my father is right behind me, and reach the entrance to a building, taking cover behind a pillar, and facing a wall because I heard gunshots, (more likely fired into the air as noone got hurt), and this tear gas grenade comes from behind the pillar, unactivated, bounce off the wall, (chipping the wall, actually), activated itself on impact and landed half a second later between my feet, throwing its entire content up, towards my face. I went "fhoosh" in a white cloud of toxic smoke. At least it was a normal tear gas grenade and not a triphasic bomb, because I would had been sent to the hospital inmediately.

Even then, I left the cloud coughing and legally blind, run like ten meters away, and then remembered I left my father behind and couldn't see him, so I entered the cloud again to look for him, fearing that the gas could affect him even worse than me. (My dad was 69 or 70 back then, not exactly a fit person). After less than 30 seconds, I can't stand it anymore, so I leave the cloud again. My father was smarter and had found a better refuge, and was looking for me. Luckily he saw me leaving the cloud the second time, so he didn't have to enter to search for me.

The swelling in my eyelids took more than half an hour to dissappear, and I almost got a tan, the skin around the corner of my mouth and of my lips dried and cracked and everything. It was nasty.

I have a real problem with some of the anti-Zionists on the left. I'm not a fan of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, but I can mount that support without getting into the ugly anti-Semitism that some lefties seem to indulge in all too often. What annoys me more is how they pretend they aren't being anti-Semitic.

Yeah, the "Israelis are all teh ebils!!!!" attitude is pretty stupid. I dislike Israel's government, not the nation itself. Same as I dislike my own government.

In the 1980s, I regularly beat German protesters.

I was perfectly fine with the protesting - hey, if you have freedom of speech...

but if you want to climb up on the nuclear missile launcher, and try to damage it, you're taking a one-way trip to the hospital emergency room, courtesy of me.

you deserve a metal.

Protesting is good for nothing more than getting attention. If you don't have anything meaningful to say when you've got the spotlight then you're just wasting time. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I know a lot of people like to listen to music and get high, I just have a problem with it when those people start acting like it actually does something. If you want to chant or sing or get high and sit in a drum circle then do it, just don't act like you're solving anything. Things like world peace will not be brought about by symbols, slogans, and singing cumbia around a campfire. Real problems take real solutions and a bunch of people blocking the streets and slashing tires in the name of whatever their cause is does not help.

you deserve a metal.

Perhaps some aluminum?

Perhaps some aluminum?

Polonium perhaps?

Perhaps some aluminum?

good choice. Aluminum has a rich history of being awarded as medals. Napoleon issued aluminum medals as awards above platinum. The Washington monument is capped in aluminum at the time being one of the most expensive medals.

Two meters is bad, but I had one landed just between my feet.

I was in a protest of like 100 hundred people, with some friends and my dad, waving flags and all the usual nice stuff, but we were cutting off traffic in a main street, so a squad of national guards in full riot gear come mounted in bikes and shouting like 30 minutes afterwards.

I run as the rest of the people, imagining my father is right behind me, and reach the entrance to a building, taking cover behind a pillar, and facing a wall because I heard gunshots, (more likely fired into the air as noone got hurt), and this tear gas grenade comes from behind the pillar, unactivated, bounce off the wall, (chipping the wall, actually), activated itself on impact and landed half a second later between my feet, throwing its entire content up, towards my face. I went "fhoosh" in a white cloud of toxic smoke. At least it was a normal tear gas grenade and not a triphasic bomb, because I would had been sent to the hospital inmediately.

Even then, I left the cloud coughing and legally blind, run like ten meters away, and then remembered I left my father behind and couldn't see him, so I entered the cloud again to look for him, fearing that the gas could affect him even worse than me. (My dad was 69 or 70 back then, not exactly a fit person). After less than 30 seconds, I can't stand it anymore, so I leave the cloud again. My father was smarter and had found a better refuge, and was looking for me. Luckily he saw me leaving the cloud the second time, so he didn't have to enter to search for me.

The swelling in my eyelids took more than half an hour to dissappear, and I almost got a tan, the skin around the corner of my mouth and of my lips dried and cracked and everything. It was nasty.

That sounds highly unpleasant. My own experiences with tear gas are much less bad as they involve military training gas, not the really strong shit that police use.

Protesting is good for nothing more than getting attention. If you don't have anything meaningful to say when you've got the spotlight then you're just wasting time. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I know a lot of people like to listen to music and get high, I just have a problem with it when those people start acting like it actually does something. If you want to chant or sing or get high and sit in a drum circle then do it, just don't act like you're solving anything. Things like world peace will not be brought about by symbols, slogans, and singing cumbia around a campfire. Real problems take real solutions and a bunch of people blocking the streets and slashing tires in the name of whatever their cause is does not help.Except, of course, for the fact that protesting was a major cause of ending the Vietnam War.
And the 1999 Seattle protests brought a lot of attention to the WTO and globalization.
And ACT-UP.
And I could go on, but the point is that you're wrong.

Except, of course, for the fact that protesting was a major cause of ending the Vietnam War.
how many protesters voted for Nixon ???
Because that's the guy who got us out of the war.
I would contend no the protest didn't get us out of the war sooner.

And the 1999 Seattle protests brought a lot of attention to the WTO and globalization.
And ACT-UP.
And I could go on, but the point is that you're wrong.

The Seattle protesters were considered little more then baboons after the anti globalization protests. Most people see a 5 minute.
Act up ? They were always stupid. they wanted access to experimental drugs they should have protested at the FDA or at least some government entity, to allow these drugs to be more available. Instead they protest at the NYSE. Then they break into a church and disrupt mass ???
If they had done this to a minority religion they would have been charged with a hate crime. They are nothing but a bunch of stupid goons.
almost all the perceived influence of a protest is something done by someone working separately and with in the system.

No, I'm Lazy.

Protesting is good for nothing more than getting attention. If you don't have anything meaningful to say when you've got the spotlight then you're just wasting time. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I know a lot of people like to listen to music and get high, I just have a problem with it when those people start acting like it actually does something. If you want to chant or sing or get high and sit in a drum circle then do it, just don't act like you're solving anything. Things like world peace will not be brought about by symbols, slogans, and singing cumbia around a campfire. Real problems take real solutions and a bunch of people blocking the streets and slashing tires in the name of whatever their cause is does not help.

Protesting isn't particularly effective if it's ALL that is done. However, that is hardly ever the case. Most 'causes' and people who work for them, involve educational campaigns, on the ground work, political advocacy (by that I mean through 'proper means), etc. Protesting is simply one, small part of activism.

Protesting can be MASSIVELY effective when other methods have failed, and time is running out. You're right that it's about getting attention...getting the attention of the public, getting the attention of the people in places where policy decisions are made. Protests aren't intended to 'bring world peace', they are intended to be a part of a much broader movement.

Of course I take my part of the job in the streets, I'm French, dude ! ;]

More seriously...
Protesting is usefull.

People who " get really the job done " never do this without popular pression on them.

Protesting help to spot loght on unpleasant and ugly things.

In a perfect world with perfect leaders, it wouldn't be necessary, but sometimes you haven't the choice.

how many protesters voted for Nixon ???
Because that's the guy who got us out of the war.
I would contend no the protest didn't get us out of the war sooner.Given the fact that Nixon was all for the war earlier in his Presidency, protesting absolutely shifted the tide of opinion.

The Seattle protesters were considered little more then baboons after the anti globalization protests.All protestors are viewed this way all the time.

Most people see a 5 minute.A 5 minute what?

Act up ? They were always stupid. they wanted access to experimental drugs they should have protested at the FDA or at least some government entity, to allow these drugs to be more available. Instead they protest at the NYSE. Then they break into a church and disrupt mass ???
If they had done this to a minority religion they would have been charged with a hate crime. They are nothing but a bunch of stupid goons.The FDA wasn't the only reason the drugs weren't available. Politicians not seeing AIDS as a problem was a much larger reason.

almost all the perceived influence of a protest is something done by someone working separately and with in the system.Yes, the protesting forced the hand of the people in the system to actually do something.

how many protesters voted for Nixon ???
Because that's the guy who got us out of the war.
I would contend no the protest didn't get us out of the war sooner.


Yes... in his fucking second term, even though he'd promised to do it immediately. He was a lying sack of shit. About multiple things.

Protesting isn't particularly effective if it's ALL that is done. However, that is hardly ever the case. Most 'causes' and people who work for them, involve educational campaigns, on the ground work, political advocacy (by that I mean through 'proper means), etc. Protesting is simply one, small part of activism.

Protesting can be MASSIVELY effective when other methods have failed, and time is running out. You're right that it's about getting attention...getting the attention of the public, getting the attention of the people in places where policy decisions are made. Protests aren't intended to 'bring world peace', they are intended to be a part of a much broader movement.

Protesting is basically a way of saying "Hey, I feel really strongly about this. And look, you will see that lots of other people do, too."

It's not always effective, but politicians often do respond to public pressure if you give them high enough a dose. It's certainly more effective than just sitting on one's ass just going "this sucks, somebody should do something."

And combined with other forms of political activism, it can be quite effective.

Act up ? They were always stupid.

And remarkably successful.

And remarkably successful.

My advice would be to ignore 'greed and death'. He's been trolling the entire thread. It's not really worth a real answer.

In the 1980s, I regularly beat German protesters.

I was perfectly fine with the protesting - hey, if you have freedom of speech...

but if you want to climb up on the nuclear missile launcher, and try to damage it, you're taking a one-way trip to the hospital emergency room, courtesy of me.

It was a tank last time you told that story.

Who were you claiming to be, then... Whispering Legs, I think.

And remarkably successful.

that's debatable. most of the advances in the fight against Aids would have occurred as the seriousness of the problem emerged.

My advice would be to ignore 'greed and death'. He's been trolling the entire thread. It's not really worth a real answer.

I am sorry if it is trolling to think a group of people who storm a cathedral disrupt mass and throw used condoms at the on the alter deserve no respect.

not to mention several act up groups think aids does not exist and its the medication that is being used to kill gays and lesbians. Act up San Francisco sent packets claiming such to the members of the UN.
http://www.aegis.com/news/wb/2000/WB000301.html

like I said they are a bunch of douche bags.

that's debatable. most of the advances in the fight against Aids would have occurred as the seriousness of the problem emerged.Emerged how many years later?

Emerged how many years later?

yes and prior to 87' it killed less people per year then the common cold. You can not expect the government to spend billions on what by a minor infection with high survivability rates. yes in 7 years it became obvious everyone remained infected, and there was 0% survivability in the long term. But to throw money at every new diseases with out a cost benefit analysis would be irresponsible. and would have long ago left us bankrupt.

yes and prior to 87' it killed less people per year then the common cold.

This is not the standard according to which we judge the danger of new, lethal, infectious diseases.

This is not the standard according to which we judge the danger of new, lethal, infectious diseases.

then pratell what is the standard ? to just randomly throw money at everything that may be lethal ???

I've never been to a protest. My problem is that I views that aren't nearly as popular among young people as the views usually proclaimed in these protests.

So that leaves me disagreeing with the status quo, and disillusioned with the ability of normal democratic election procedures to change anything - but if I want to vent my opinion, I can either organise a libertarian protest and watch it be ridiculed for lack of numbers, or join an already existing protest, and probably spend the afternoon in heated arguments with the people I'm supposed to be protesting with. As an example - I could go to an anti-war protest, but rather than getting my message out there, I'd end up getting more and more annoyed with people talking about "US imperialism" and "blood for oil".

But this is conjecture by myself, since as I said I've never actually gone. Probably more important to me in that decision is the fact that I don't think the time and effort is worth it in terms of results, and that the whole idea of having to shout rather than being able to explain an idea coherently and let it be judged on its merits is just plain distasteful.

then pratell what is the standard ?

For one, you look at projections: maybe it's affecting this number of people right now, but how fast is it spreading? How many more might it infect? You would have us wait until after the disaster happens to actually do something, and this is more or less what actually did happen with AIDS. This is very far from typical public health practice, incidentally.

For another, you consider cost-benefit. The common cold may kill more people than some diseases, but you can't stop its spread and it's difficult to treat. Investing money in dealing with other diseases may bring about better results. And, indeed, new developed treatments for AIDS drastically increased life expectancy, and safe-sex campaigning significantly reduced its spread.

For one, you look at projections: maybe it's affecting this number of people right now, but how fast is it spreading? How many more might it infect? You would have us wait until after the disaster happens to actually do something, and this is more or less what actually did happen with AIDS. This is very far from typical public health practice, incidentally.
it was not until '87 that enough research was done to determine these things.

For another, you consider cost-benefit. The common cold may kill more people than some diseases, but you can't stop its spread and it's difficult to treat. Investing money in dealing with other diseases may bring about better results. And, indeed, new developed treatments for AIDS drastically increased life expectancy, and safe-sex campaigning significantly reduced its spread.
A hand washing campaign would prevent a great many infections and deaths form the common cold. also distribution of hand sanitizer would help. And there are a lot of things about HIV that doctors and researchers were not ready for. For instance the funding in 1984 was expected to be enough to produce a vaccine by 1986. Before 87' the need to sink that much funding into research and prevention was not know. because it is normally fairly easy to make a vaccine. as stated by United States Health and Human Services Secretary Margaret Heckler. The time frame were both reasonable and to be expected.

it was not until '87 that enough research was done to determine these things.

That's just plainly not true. Was mathematics suddenly discovered in 1987?

For instance the funding in 1984 was expected to be enough to produce a vaccine by 1986.

"Expected" by whom?

as stated by United States Health and Human Services Secretary Margaret Heckler.

Truly an unbiased source.

I am sorry if it is trolling to think a group of people who storm a cathedral disrupt mass and throw used condoms at the on the alter deserve no respect.


That's not the trolling part, as I suspect you know.... unless you're going to claim that every other post in this thread was just someone pretending to be you.

As for condoms in cathedrals... seems fair to me. The Catholic church has been less than content to just keep it's views on the matter to itself, and has gone out of it's way to actively oppose contraceptive use, and consequently has massivel contributed to the sperad of std's.

I have no sympathy for it. Tough shit, I say.

it was not until '87 that enough research was done to determine these things.Why did the research take so long? People had been dying from it for at least 5 years prior.

Why did the research take so long? People had been dying from it for at least 5 years prior.

for one they thought it would be a typical virus that would take about 2 years to make a vaccine for. this was in 84'
86 and 87' when vaccine trials are failing at phase I phase II that's when the medical community realized by and large this was going to take a closer look.
prior to 87' the common cold killed more people. putting money into making a new flu vaccine every year was a better choice.

Was goning to go on a couple but ended up seeing the first pub that was open and it drew me in for the rest of the day

for one they thought it would be a typical virus that would take about 2 years to make a vaccine for. this was in 84'
86 and 87' when vaccine trials are failing at phase I phase II that's when the medical community realized by and large this was going to take a closer look.
prior to 87' the common cold killed more people. putting money into making a new flu vaccine every year was a better choice.Do you have statistics for the idea that the common cold killed more per year than AIDS prior to '87?

Do you have statistics for the idea that the common cold killed more per year than AIDS prior to '87?

Of course not.

A small nation in South East Asia that likes to pretend it's a democratic (hah) big player, treats ethnic minorities as 2nd class citizens, arrests political dissidents (bloggers included) on charges of sedition when they even talk about unfair government treatment of the ethnic groups, has both secret police and religious police, horribly corrupt to the point where the entire police force can be considered to be on the take, has inconvenient people, including foreigners, assassinated, harasses voters with military assets (infantry to gunships hanging about voting booths) and has been shown on video record to actively manipulate who becomes judges in the Supreme court, not that anything ever came of it.

That should be enough clues to look it up, if you'll excuse the paranoia.

And no, it's not China.

My guess was:

Malaysia?

...and seeing NAS's response, I'm sticking with it.

Indonesia?

He said "small".

I'm going to my first rally this Saturday. It's against a proposition in California. There usually are not any protests where I live now, but I plan to go to Berkeley in a few years so I can get plenty of them there.

Relevant xkcd comic: http://www.xkcd.com/470/

I'm going to my first rally this Saturday. It's against a proposition in California. There usually are not any protests where I live now, but I plan to go to Berkeley in a few years so I can get plenty of them there.

Relevant xkcd comic: http://www.xkcd.com/470/

Is it against Prop 8?