NationStates Jolt Archive

Defines a person as a fertilized egg, even before it's implanted. This could be construed to mean that any form of birth control that interferes with inplanting a fertilized egg could be made illegal, including IUDs, and some forms of birth control pill.

How does this mean equal rights?

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Colorado_Amendment_48_%282008%29

It also means tapeworms are people too!

It also means tapeworms are people too!

Lol, you fucking win.

/thread.

basically since the republicans wont win the presidency they want another show down over abortion before obama appoints any new justices. They really needed to appoint one more justice. right now it is 4/4 with one swing vote on the abortion issue.

So this looks like the best chance they got to over turn Roe V wade. the amendment to the state Constitution guarantees it will be heard by the supreme court.

It also means tapeworms are people too!

It is crass and repugnant that you would mock the rights of tapeworm citizens.

Tapeworms were on the first settler ships.

They were in the feces of the natives who promptly shit when they realized what the new neighbors were going to do.

Tapeworms gave their lives along with malnourished soldiers at Valley Forge.

Tapeworms were baked into the bread at prison camps during the Civil War.

An American tape worm tried to prevent the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. It died in the attempt.

Tape worms were at Iwo Jima. They were at Khe San.


Tape worms have stood guard over our freedoms and intestinal tracts from the beginning.

Show a little respect.

The solution is to move out of Colorado and leave it a barren wasteland (like it should be)

The solution is to move out of Colorado and leave it a barren wasteland (like it should be)

except the issue will be forced to the supreme court. where it is hoped the string of judges bush appointed will overturn Roe V wade at least in part.

Equal rights for all cells! Bacteria are people too!

Equal rights for all cells! Bacteria are people too!

But bacteria have no nuclei...

But bacteria have no nuclei...

Equal rights for prokaryotes! End karyotism!

Defines a person as a fertilized egg, even before it's implanted. This could be construed to mean that any form of birth control that interferes with inplanting a fertilized egg could be made illegal, including IUDs, and some forms of birth control pill.

How does this mean equal rights?

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Colorado_Amendment_48_%282008%29

80% of fertilized eggs don't implant so unless they are going to have trauma teams stationed with every woman having a period, the death toll will be staggering! :eek:

It is crass and repugnant that you would mock the rights of tapeworm citizens.

Tapeworms were on the first settler ships.

They were in the feces of the natives who promptly shit when they realized what the new neighbors were going to do.

Tapeworms gave their lives along with malnourished soldiers at Valley Forge.

Tapeworms were baked into the bread at prison camps during the Civil War.

An American tape worm tried to prevent the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. It died in the attempt.

Tape worms were at Iwo Jima. They were at Khe San.


Tape worms have stood guard over our freedoms and intestinal tracts from the beginning.

Show a little respect.

Yay! :D

80% of fertilized eggs don't implant so unless they are going to have trauma teams stationed with every woman having a period, the death toll will be staggering! :eek:

And how many of those women are guilty of negligent homicide or something like that?

And how many of those women are guilty of negligent homicide or something like that?

Serial killers, the lot of them! :mad:

And how many of those women are guilty of negligent homicide or something like that?

Actually, it would be either the womb, or the egg which is guilty of homicide.

Nice line of work for an agoraphobic detective. Or perhaps we should start with Womb Surveillance to determine the culprit.

Actually, it would be either the womb, or the egg which is guilty of homicide.

Nice line of work for an agoraphobic detective. Or perhaps we should start with Womb Surveillance to determine the culprit.

CSI: Uterus.

CSI: Uterus.

With infrared cameras, like House.

CSI: Uterus.

I'd hate to imagine what an undercover investigation would look like. :D

I'd hate to imagine what an undercover investigation would look like. :D

Like all undercover investigations, it would involve a lot of sweat, a lot of work, and at least some mess at the end.

I'd hate to imagine what an undercover investigation would look like. :D

A private dick?

EDIT: And the mess at the end is better kept under wraps.

Seriously, let them defend their halfwit idea in the Supreme Court.

Let them stand up, and from the bottom of their heart and with all seriousness, declare that pi equals three (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/805/did-a-state-legislature-once-pass-a-law-saying-pi-equals-3). That men are not monkeys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860_Oxford_evolution_debate). That the earth is flat. (Sorry, can't find a serious link for that one.)

They'll get pawned so bad, even they can see it.

Seriously, bring it. The biggest victories are usually blunders by the other side.

80% of fertilized eggs don't implant so unless they are going to have trauma teams stationed with every woman having a period, the death toll will be staggering! :eek:
every time a woman has a miscarriage its not a personal tragedy anymore its potential negligent homicide.

a woman wouldnt get an abortion she would hire a contract killer.

but on the upside, she should be able to claim another dependent on her taxes every time her period was late in any given tax year.

Seriously, let them defend their halfwit idea in the Supreme Court.

Let them stand up, and from the bottom of their heart and with all seriousness, declare that pi equals three (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/805/did-a-state-legislature-once-pass-a-law-saying-pi-equals-3). That men are not monkeys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860_Oxford_evolution_debate). That the earth is flat. (Sorry, can't find a serious link for that one.)

They'll get pawned so bad, even they can see it.

Seriously, bring it. The biggest victories are usually blunders by the other side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

its in the national republican party platform to extend 14th ammendment rights to the unborn from the point of conception.

what a terrible idea.

its in the national republican party platform to extend 14th ammendment rights to the unborn from the point of conception.

what a terrible idea.

Not to mention the recalculation of everyone's birthdays to the day of conception. ;)

There was a great article in the CS Independent about this recently, it pretty much put forth exactly what the OP did.

So this looks like the best chance they got to over turn Roe V wade. the amendment to the state Constitution guarantees it will be heard by the supreme court.

It would have, yeah, if they'd managed to sneak it by us like they wanted to. But with the recent public awareness, the amendment is going to fail, and we won't have any ridiculous controversy.

What is it with this country? I mean, can we not just leave other peoples' vaginas alone?

I look forward to them putting a sperm on the stand as a witness

There was a great article in the CS Independent about this recently, it pretty much put forth exactly what the OP did.



It would have, yeah, if they'd managed to sneak it by us like they wanted to. But with the recent public awareness, the amendment is going to fail, and we won't have any ridiculous controversy.

What is it with this country? I mean, can we not just leave other peoples' vaginas alone?

its colorado they make Texas look like California.

I look forward to them putting a sperm on the stand as a witness

"I swear your honor I never touched that skanky ho! She had 'em lined up for a shot at her!"

Sperm testifying against Egg.

its colorado they make Texas look like California.

iono. Rasmussen (and pretty much every other reputable source) says we're going blue this year. Also Texas is way worse than Colorado.

Not to mention the recalculation of everyone's birthdays to the day of conception. ;)

And the stunning revelation that you have been reading the wrong horoscope all this time... ;)

And the stunning revelation that you have been reading the wrong horoscope all this time... ;)

I was conceived March 1st, 1972 at 11:30pm. I weighed .000018 ounces and was .00004 inches long. My mom keeps the ruptured condom in a scrapbook. ;)

CSI: Uterus.

Law and Order: Special Vulvas Unit.

Well this makes it official. All women are murderers. We can't help it. Just being female makes us killers. And don't let us kid you -- we love it. If we didn't want to be walking cesspits of destruction of the innocent, we'd have been born male.

The solution is to move out of Colorado and leave it a barren wasteland (like it should be)

:mad:

Do not insult Colorado!

You guys don't understand the issues that poor Joe the fertilized egg faces, try to see it from his perspective.

Well this makes it official. All women are murderers. We can't help it. Just being female makes us killers. And don't let us kid you -- we love it. If we didn't want to be walking cesspits of destruction of the innocent, we'd have been born male.

Not if I have anything to say about it!

Given the way Colorado is going, this isn't going to pass. I voted this sucker down, and I'm sure the majority of Coloradans will as well.

Though if Colorado Springs has anything to say about it, it would pass for sure...:rolleyes:

Not to mention the recalculation of everyone's birthdays to the day of conception. ;)

Noooooo! I'm already getting old faster than I should.

You guys don't understand the issues that poor Joe the fertilized egg faces, try to see it from his perspective.

Yeah, we're just insensitive liberal elitists, ignoring the troubles of the common zygote.

Yeah, we're just insensitive liberal elitists, ignoring the troubles of the common zygote.

i, for one, support the rights of blastocyst americans

Well this makes it official. All women are murderers. We can't help it. Just being female makes us killers. And don't let us kid you -- we love it. If we didn't want to be walking cesspits of destruction of the innocent, we'd have been born male.

Yes. You all get off on the idea of slaughtering the helpless innocent babies in a sea of blood. Don't you?

We'll be needing to build many more prisons, seeing as most of the female population are heartless killers.

This should be obvious, but the above is sarcasm.

Not if I have anything to say about it!

Given the way Colorado is going, this isn't going to pass. I voted this sucker down, and I'm sure the majority of Coloradans will as well.

Though if Colorado Springs has anything to say about it, it would pass for sure...:rolleyes:

I'm in the Springs and I'm definitely voting against it. My only problem with living here is that it's so damned Christian. Otherwise, it's a beautiful place, at least the part I'm in.

Yes. You all get off on the idea of slaughtering the helpless innocent babies in a sea of blood. Don't you?

We'll be needing to build many more prisons, seeing as most of the female population are heartless killers.

This should be obvious, but the above is sarcasm.
We love it so much that we carry a sea blood around inside us, just hoping that any time we have wanton unprotected sex, a conception will occur and not implant, just so we can feel the destruction flowing when we flush out the sea of blood with our periods. It's really the one thing that makes the cramps worthwhile.

I hope my sarcasm is just as obvious.

I think if one is going to be considered human so as to be protected by law, it should be based on something meaningful, such as whether the blastocyst would have consciousness, or sentience, or feelings, rather than by a sperm cell coming into contact with an egg cell. One argument I often hear in embryonic stem cell research debates is that if it's of human bio-material and fits the biological classification of life, it's "human life" whether it has a consciousness or not. Well, if we're going to be arguing from technical classifications, should we consider everything that applies forces resulting in motion work, seeing as how that fits the classification in physics? The comparison is that just like there are different definitions of "work" there are also different definitions of "life" and one of the definitions of the latter refers to the sum of one's experiences. This definition would make whether or not there is a consciousness (which probably wouldn't occur in a blastocyst) more relevant; after all, what could one experience without a consciousness?

Quite frankly, I get the impression that people who think life "begins at conception" don't really have as good an understanding of science as they'd like to pretend to.

It is crass and repugnant that you would mock the rights of tapeworm citizens.

Tapeworms were on the first settler ships.

They were in the feces of the natives who promptly shit when they realized what the new neighbors were going to do.

Tapeworms gave their lives along with malnourished soldiers at Valley Forge.

Tapeworms were baked into the bread at prison camps during the Civil War.

An American tape worm tried to prevent the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. It died in the attempt.

Tape worms were at Iwo Jima. They were at Khe San.


Tape worms have stood guard over our freedoms and intestinal tracts from the beginning.

Show a little respect.
Heh, that's honour by association for you. :p

I'm in the Springs and I'm definitely voting against it. My only problem with living here is that it's so damned Christian. Otherwise, it's a beautiful place, at least the part I'm in.

Oh, yeah, Colorado Springs is a fantastic place, environmentally speaking, and I am being a little too hard on its people.

I just wish more of them would honestly think rather than going super social conservative.

But, such is life. Might as well ask Boulder to stop being so socially democratic...

I'm in the Springs and I'm definitely voting against it. My only problem with living here is that it's so damned Christian. Otherwise, it's a beautiful place, at least the part I'm in.

This. This is the truest statement.

I live in a pretty conservative area of Colorado Springs (heh) but even here people realize the ramifications of letting 48 pass.

Quite frankly, I get the impression that people who think life "begins at conception" don't really have as good an understanding of science as they'd like to pretend to.

American conservatives have, by and large, never let a fundamental lack of understanding on a given subject stop them from making incredibly poor decisions pertaining to said subject. See: Iraq, market deregulation, stem cell research, etc...

Victoria, here in Oz, recently passed legislation decriminalising abortion. It means that the woman decides up until the 24th week of pregnancy and two doctors must approve the abortion thereafter.

In The Age today one columnist quoted a memorable speech from one of the upper house members:

Upper house Labor MP Evan Thornley homed in on this point in his contribution to the parliamentary debate. "It is as simple as it is obvious: if men took as much responsibility for contraception as women did, the number of unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone," the straight-talking ministerial aspirant told MPs. Yet, he said, male responsibility for contraception was the subject that dared not speak its name during the nearly 60 hours of parliamentary debate.

Thornley, who spoke for only about 10 minutes and voted for decriminalisation, took aim at two of the most prominent "no" voters, Liberal Bernie Finn (who spoke for nearly six hours) and the DLP's Peter Kavanagh (a little over three hours). He compared their "courage" with the courage shown by a woman having to decide what to do with an unwanted pregnancy — whether to keep and care for her baby or have an abortion. "How much courage or responsibility does it take for a bloke to walk into this place and pronounce moral judgement on women in a situation that he will never find himself in?" Thornley asked. "Mr Finn, Mr Kavanagh and others have asked, 'Where are the men in this picture?' I ask the same thing."

Then he issued this challenge: "If you walk into this chamber wanting to take some responsibility and wanting to show even the tiniest amount of courage compared to that which women must face when they have an unwanted pregnancy, then when you walk out of here you should take the lead in convincing men to take their share of responsibility for contraception. If you are serious about the unborn and if you are serious about reducing the numbers of abortions, then get out there with your videos and your horror stories, get out there with your moral righteousness and self-importance, and walk into the pubs and clubs, the footy clubs and the construction sites, the high school halls and the army barracks, and tell the blokes to take responsibility for contraception.

"If you do that, you will save thousands of unborn children from abortion. If you do not do that, you are not serious. If you do not do that, all you can do is parade around here in cowards' castle excoriating women for making a decision — that you will never, ever have to make — for whatever you perceive to be their moral shortcomings. If that is all you do, that is basically gutless and it risks being nothing more than political grandstanding and campaigning for votes.

"I am up for it — and I hope you are too, boys! It is time for men to show some leadership, to show just a tiny fraction of the courage that women have to have every day when they contemplate how to deal with an unwanted pregnancy. It is time for men to take responsibility for contraception and contribute to a massive reduction in the number of abortions and the suffering involved to the unborn, their mothers and their families."

(The emphasis is mine.)

The full newspaper article can be read here (http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/its-over-to-you-men-20081022-56bh.html?page=-1).

The cartoon is making parallels with recent bad behaviour by students from a prestigious Catholic school here in Melbourne.

The full Hansard can be read here (http://tex.parliament.vic.gov.au/bin/texhtmlt?form=VicHansard.dumpall&db=daily&dodraft=1&house=COUNCIL&speech=12564&activity=Second+Reading&title=ABORTION+LAW+REFORM+BILL&date1=9&date2=October&date3=2008&query=true%0a%09and+%28+data+contains+'abortion'+%29%0a%09and+%28+members+contains+'THORNLEY'+%29%0a #match1).

Some political explanations:

Evan Thornley is an Australian Labor Party member. The ALP is the party of Government in Victoria.

Liberal = classical liberal, ie supports the free-market, promotes the individual over the group; equivalent to the British Conservative Party or the US Republican Party. The Liberal Party is the main opposition party in Victoria.

DLP = Democratic Labor Party, a right-wing Catholic group that split from the Australian Labor Party in the 1950s. They have one member in the Victorian Parliament.

Defines a person as a fertilized egg, even before it's implanted. This could be construed to mean that any form of birth control that interferes with inplanting a fertilized egg could be made illegal, including IUDs, and some forms of birth control pill.

How does this mean equal rights?

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Colorado_Amendment_48_%282008%29

It doesnt. It means "life begins at conception!!!!"


If it was a REAL equal rights ammendment, it would be an equal pay ammendment, allowing gay marriage, and the like all rolled into one.


But conservatives dont care about blacks, women and queers. Just babies. And once youre born, they might not care anymore about you. Such as if youre a black, girl, or queer baby.

If youre a rich white male baby though, then they keep caring.

If youre a right white male baby though, then they keep caring.

Up until the point you're old enough to enlist and get deployed to Iraq, which we'll still be if McSame and Caribou Barbie are in the White House.

its colorado they make Texas look like California.

Having lived in both states, that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

80% of fertilized eggs don't implant so unless they are going to have trauma teams stationed with every woman having a period, the death toll will be staggering! :eek:

I'm waiting for someone to get insurance that offers settlements for children who pass away very young. I would love to see some woman suing them every month for a payment for her dead children.

Liberal = classical liberal, ie supports the free-market, promotes the individual over the group; equivalent to the British Conservative Party or the US Republican Party. The Liberal Party is the main opposition party in Victoria.


Err no... The Republican party is overwhelmingly statist in many respects, and highly authoritarian, almost the opposite of Liberal, if it wasn't for their 'deregulation (for the sake of deregulation) bullshit policies'. The liberal democrats are also probably more free market than the conservatives in Britain as well.

It doesnt. It means "life begins at conception!!!!"


If it was a REAL equal rights ammendment, it would be an equal pay ammendment, allowing gay marriage, and the like all rolled into one.


But conservatives dont care about blacks, women and queers. Just babies. And once youre born, they might not care anymore about you. Such as if youre a black, girl, or queer baby.

If youre a rich white male baby though, then they keep caring.

It is shameful that the actual ERA did not pass. Though, one could argue that they could just start up the campaign again and count all the states that had ratified it last time round.

Victoria, here in Oz, recently passed legislation decriminalising abortion. It means that the woman decides up until the 24th week of pregnancy and two doctors must approve the abortion thereafter.

In The Age today one columnist quoted a memorable speech from one of the upper house members:



(The emphasis is mine.)

The full newspaper article can be read here (http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/its-over-to-you-men-20081022-56bh.html?page=-1).

The cartoon is making parallels with recent bad behaviour by students from a prestigious Catholic school here in Melbourne.

The full Hansard can be read here (http://tex.parliament.vic.gov.au/bin/texhtmlt?form=VicHansard.dumpall&db=daily&dodraft=1&house=COUNCIL&speech=12564&activity=Second+Reading&title=ABORTION+LAW+REFORM+BILL&date1=9&date2=October&date3=2008&query=true%0a%09and+%28+data+contains+'abortion'+%29%0a%09and+%28+members+contains+'THORNLEY'+%29%0a #match1).

Some political explanations:

Evan Thornley is an Australian Labor Party member. The ALP is the party of Government in Victoria.

Liberal = classical liberal, ie supports the free-market, promotes the individual over the group; equivalent to the British Conservative Party or the US Republican Party. The Liberal Party is the main opposition party in Victoria.

DLP = Democratic Labor Party, a right-wing Catholic group that split from the Australian Labor Party in the 1950s. They have one member in the Victorian Parliament.

Wait... did Australia just now decriminalize abortion?

Also... this Evan Thornley fellow sounds like quite a dude. Is he always that badass?

Hmm. I think there really is only one reasonable response to this proposed Amendment:

We must immediately campaign to get the Son of Sam law removed from the books in Colorado.

Why?

Well, if the proposed CERA passes, then basically every fertile woman living in Colorado is a serial killer. Think of all the tell-all novels! The made-for-TV movies! The women of Colorado could supply Court TV with an endless supply of material!

State welfare would no longer be necessary, as every woman could support herself and her family off the profits from recounting her personal tale of serial homicides. With just a few suspiciously heavy periods, a woman could ensure that any child she carries to term will have a flush college fund.

In these harrowing economic times, the additional income would be welcomed by most families.

Hmm. I think there really is only one reasonable response to this proposed Amendment:

We must immediately campaign to get the Son of Sam law removed from the books in Colorado.

Why?

Well, if the proposed CERA passes, then basically every fertile woman living in Colorado is a serial killer. Think of all the tell-all novels! The made-for-TV movies! The women of Colorado could supply Court TV with an endless supply of material!

Dominic Dunne could do a show for them on "True Cases of Celebrity Menses."

its just a case of conservatives trying to pass some absurd law by disguising it as equal rights..

it is ironic when they are opposed to real equal rights all over america for minorities ...

I'm waiting for someone to get insurance that offers settlements for children who pass away very young. I would love to see some woman suing them every month for a payment for her dead children.

won't they have to prove to the insurance companies that the ejected egg was fertized first?

Having lived in both states, that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

which two of the three states I listed did you live in ??? Because I've lived in all three.

Well now?

To touch on the area of masturbation; is not punishable since you are selfishly denying the potential rights of another?

Well now?

To touch on the area of masturbation; is not punishable since you are selfishly denying the potential rights of another?

Heh.

If masturbation is a crime, I should be on Death Row. If masturbation was against the law I'd have fried on the electric chair years ago. By the age of 12, little did I know I was Al Capone!

Err no... The Republican party is overwhelmingly statist in many respects, and highly authoritarian, almost the opposite of Liberal, if it wasn't for their 'deregulation (for the sake of deregulation) bullshit policies'. The liberal democrats are also probably more free market than the conservatives in Britain as well.

And what you're saying is probably true also for the Liberal Party in Australia. I just wanted to give the idea that "Liberal" in the Liberal Party didn't mean liberal as understood by many people elsewhere.

Wait... did Australia just now decriminalize abortion?

Also... this Evan Thornley fellow sounds like quite a dude. Is he always that badass?

No, abortion has just been decriminalised in the state of Victoria, covering about 25% of Australians. Other than in the territories, the Australian government cannot make laws on abortion. The best it could hope to do would be to make federal grants dependent on the states making laws it wanted.

And yeah, Evan Thornley calls it as it is in this debate.

No, abortion has just been decriminalised in the state of Victoria, covering about 25% of Australians. Other than in the territories, the Australian government cannot make laws on abortion. The best it could hope to do would be to make federal grants dependent on the states making laws it wanted.

And yeah, Evan Thornley calls it as it is in this debate.

So, there are parts of Australia where abortion is still illegal, then?

Yeah, Evan Thornley sounds pretty awesome. At least he was being awesome there.

:mad:

Do not insult Colorado!

What?!?
You're already planning on doing your part to follow his advice...

The solution is to move out of Colorado and leave it a barren wasteland (like it should be)

you mean it doesnt already look like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TL4XZdyo3g

What?!?
You're already planning on doing your part to follow his advice...

I was referring to calling it a barren wasteland. It most certainly is not a barren wasteland.

which two of the three states I listed did you live in ??? Because I've lived in all three.

Oh, so you did. Texas and Colorado.

Oh, so you did. Texas and Colorado.

yes blue river Colorado and Houston Tx.