NationStates Jolt Archive

Japan's young turn to Communist Party as they decide capitalism has let them down

With its gleaming designer stores, the world's second largest economy and an insatiable appetite for luxury labels, Japan has long been regarded as the land of the rising capitalist.


By Danielle Demetriou in Tokyo
Last Updated: 9:19AM BST 18 Oct 2008

But a wave of discontent among its younger workers is fuelling a change in the nation's political landscape: communism is suddenly back in fashion.

What many young Japanese view as an erosion of their economic security and employment rights, combined with years of political stagnation, are propelling droves of them into the arms of the Japanese Communist Party (JCP), the nation's fourth largest political party.

New recruits are signing up at the rate of 1,000 a month, swelling its ranks to more than 415,000. Meanwhile a classic proletarian novel is at the top of the best-seller lists, and communist-themed "manga" comics are enjoying soaring success.

A further sign of disaffection among young Japanese - who in recent years have been more renowned for their political apathy than their revolutionary zeal - is the increasing frequency of rallies by workers on the streets of the capital.

Earlier this month, crowds of up to 5,000 young Japanese workers marched through the streets of central Tokyo to express their growing discontent with the government over working conditions.

And the job losses, financial insecurity and social dissatisfaction that are expected to go hand in hand with the current global credit crisis are expected to increase the ranks of the party further.

Spearheading the lurch to the Left are young Japanese in their twenties and thirties, who have become increasingly disillusioned with changes to employment laws which they blame for creating a climate of insecurity.

Some 44 per cent of country's workforce are part-time only, while a profusion of short-term contracts has created a generation of freelancers who are often between jobs.

Kimitoshi Morihara, deputy director of the Japanese Communist Party's international bureau, said: "Working conditions dramatically changed for younger generations in 2002 when new temporary working laws were introduced.

Today, more than one in three Japanese is in temporary work. They have almost no rights, no security and no future.

"The political climate in Japan is changing and more young Japanese are becoming politically aware because these issues have long been ignored by other parties." The revival of hard left politics comes as Japan faces the prospect of an general election in coming months, following the parliamentary deadlock which led to last month's sudden resignation of Yasuo Fukuda, the third prime minister in less than three years.

The country's schlerotic political system has enabled the ruling Liberal Democratic Party to hold power for an almost unbroken five decades, although its powers were critically curtailed last year when the main opposition party won control of the upper legislative chamber.

Resurgent Japanese communism is deploying all the tools of the 21st century, with the internet and on-line video sites playing a vital role.

The party's charismatic chairman, Kazuo Shii, triggered a rush of new recruits with a rousing parliamentary speech attacking the "exploitation" of young workers, which has become cult viewing among young Japanese on video websites.

With his grey salaryman suit and glasses, 54-year-old Mr Shii appears a far cry from conventional revolutionary stereotypes. However, after eight years at the helm of the party he has been propelled to prominence to become something of a media personality.

Among those who have recently come under his sway is Miki Tomohiro, a 34-year-old freelance writer from Fukutsu City, Fukuoka Prefecture. "When I saw Mr Shii speaking, I felt as if he was exposing capitalism in its crudest form," he said. "I surfed the internet to find out more about the party before joining." Oomori Shuji, 30, a temporary worker for Toyota, from Aichi Prefecture, who joined the party in June, added: "Since my graduation, I have never been fully employed. At a JCP workshop, I learned about the realities of temps hired by the day and the working poor, who are without social security or bonuses, and are often easily fired.

"The party is considerate of the plight of young people, including their jobs and living conditions. It has a concrete policy on these questions." Another sign of the growing allure of the Left is the sudden surge in popularity of a classic Japanese novel, Kanikosen - the Crab-Canning Ship *- about embattled factory workers who rise up against their capitalist oppressors.

Nearly eight decades after it was written by Takiji Kobayashi, a communist who was tortured to death for his political beliefs aged 29, its sales have leapt from a slow annual trickle of 5,000 to 507,000 so far this year, unexpectedly catapulting it to the top of the nation's bestseller lists.

A "manga" comic book depicting the same Marxist tale is also winning over young Japanese, with 200,000 copies sold in a year. Kosuke Maruo, editor at East Press, which publishes the manga version, said: "The story succeeds in representing very vividly the situation of the so-called working poor today.

"They cannot become happy and they cannot find the solution to their poverty, however hard they work. Young people who are forced to work for very low wages today may have a feeling that they are in a similar position to the crew of Kanikosen." Kyudo Takahashi, 31, a freelance writer from Tokyo, attributed the popularity of the story to a growing sense of displacement among his generation.

"Kanikosen was a textbook in school but we didn't read it seriously then," he said. "Now, we're reading it again because we're frustrated with the government.

"In the book, people are exploited again and again. They are not treated like humans, more like cows at a hamburger factory. That is how many people feel today. When we find work, someone is always exploiting us. We cannot feel secure about the future."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/3218944/Japans-young-turn-to-Communist-Party-as-they-decide-capitalism-has-let-them-down.html

I do think the article is exagerating things somewhat, but from what I see here, there are elements in place for something to happen.

Time had an interesting bit on the JCP last year that helps explain their role in modern Japanese politics. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1636115,00.html

Of course, communist parties elsewhere in the industrialized world that had followed a similar script nonetheless faded into irrelevance in the 1990s. But the JCP, although weaker than in its heyday, still matters in Japanese politics.

Shii credits the JCP's consistent independence from Moscow for its survival. But the JCP's endurance has more to do with its role in the domestic political arena. The largest parties in Japanese politics lack a clear and cohesive identity, functioning more as loose alliances of interest with few discernible political differences, and they draw support less on ideological bases than through personal networks of patronage built by individual candidates. "It's like Tammany Hall," says Lam. Support for the parties themselves is weak, and getting weaker, as increasingly sophisticated Japanese voters seek meaningful political choice.

The JCP may benefit by virtue of actually standing for something — "the socialist/communist society," according to its manifesto. "The JCP is a boutique party, but it's the only political party in Japan that has a strong grassroots organization," says Lam. "In a way, the communists are probably the most modern political party in Japan."

Despite holding only 18 of the 722 seats in the Diet, the JCP often functions as the only genuine opposition to politics-as-usual in Tokyo. Virtually alone among Japan's parties, the communists have hammered Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and others for backsliding on Japan's role in forcing tens of thousands of Asian women into prostitution during World War II. Communist politicians have repeatedly uncovered damaging financial scandals in government — they're too far removed from power to be enmeshed in Tokyo's endemic corruption. "We are the watchdog, but we go further than that," says Shii. "I think the advance of the JCP will be key to the advance of Japanese politics."

Well, maybe — it may be the most progressive party in Japanese politics, but it still adheres to Marxism. (When I half-seriously ask one college-aged party member whether he reads the classics, he reaches into his backpack and produces Volume 2 of the 13-volume Japanese translation of Das Kapital.) And the JCP's cohesion comes at the expense of flexibility and openness — Leninist discipline still applies, and when the Central Committee has ruled on an issue, members are expected to obey. "That's increasingly out of sync with postmodern Japan," says Lam. "But the fear of the JCP is that if they relent, the party will lose its cohesiveness."

ha ha America, Communism never dies!

So if the Japs turn red it will no longer be the world's second largest economy, well if the Japs want to do this then fine let them collapse. I wonder if this means they would become more friendly towards China? Could have grave implications for the West.

So if the Japs turn red it will no longer be the world's second largest economy, well if the Japs want to do this then fine let them collapse. I wonder if this means they would become more friendly towards China? Could have grave implications for the West.

I don't really see Japan going commie. I do, however, find them to be the only political party here I respect. I would like to see a big change in how the government here operates - the current system is basically a corrupt system that was put in gear by the US to halt the communist in the 50s and help the US in the Korean War, and has been chugging along ever since, with little change.

I don't really see Japan going commie. I do, however, find them to be the only political party here I respect. I would like to see a big change in how the government here operates - the current system is basically a corrupt system that was put in gear by the US to halt the communist in the 50s and help the US in the Korean War, and has been chugging along ever since, with little change.
I agree, though I do wonder what sort of reforms a communist party in parliament would actually try to push, and which ones it would try to clock.

At any rate, I think the broader economic issues regarding employment in Japan are still heavily influenced by cultural factors too. Keeping a traditional salaryman is expensive and more often than not counterproductive in the 21st century, but it somehow still seems to be the only real alternative to keeping temp workers around. I don't know enough about existing regulations to say whether there is a legal basis for this dichotomy, but it seems unnecessary.

I agree, though I do wonder what sort of reforms a communist party in parliament would actually try to push, and which ones it would try to clock.

At any rate, I think the broader economic issues regarding employment in Japan are still heavily influenced by cultural factors too. Keeping a traditional salaryman is expensive and more often than not counterproductive in the 21st century, but it somehow still seems to be the only real alternative to keeping temp workers around. I don't know enough about existing regulations to say whether there is a legal basis for this dichotomy, but it seems unnecessary.

I've got some input on those issues, but it's time for me to go be exploited by the man. :wink:

I don't really see Japan going commie. I do, however, find them to be the only political party here I respect. I would like to see a big change in how the government here operates - the current system is basically a corrupt system that was put in gear by the US to halt the communist in the 50s and help the US in the Korean War, and has been chugging along ever since, with little change.

Well true they won't go completely red or even partly, the article does only talk about young people joining the ranks and even their views will change with time. Though this might be a wake up call for the current government if it isn't working well and slightly corrupt then a stronger force against them may make them want to stop and change their ways a bit in order to keep the people on thier side.

I don't think that Japan was ever really a model of free market capitalism in the first place. They certainly don't seem to work that way at any rate. It's always struck me that something else entirely is going on over there that I don't understand at all, and they just dress it up with a patina of western practice so as not to frighten people too much.

That said, from what I can gather, I do have sympathy for the younger generations in Japan. They were totally screwed by the 80s silliness. And the complete refusal of Japanese society to apportion the blame and consequences properly has basically resulted in nothing but dribbling down the misery to the young for the past twenty odd years. Maybe its a Confucian thing, I don't rightly know. But until they figure out that they can't keep covering stuff up (there have been some small moves in this direction, but not nearly enough) they will remain mired and continue to get poorer.

Better a miserable end than misery without end. So it's not unrealistic to support a communist party I suppose.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/3218944/Japans-young-turn-to-Communist-Party-as-they-decide-capitalism-has-let-them-down.html

I do think the article is exagerating things somewhat, but from what I see here, there are elements in place for something to happen.

Time had an interesting bit on the JCP last year that helps explain their role in modern Japanese politics. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1636115,00.html

What? You fools! Don't Communize! Unionize!

At any rate, I think the broader economic issues regarding employment in Japan are still heavily influenced by cultural factors too. Keeping a traditional salaryman is expensive and more often than not counterproductive in the 21st century, but it somehow still seems to be the only real alternative to keeping temp workers around. I don't know enough about existing regulations to say whether there is a legal basis for this dichotomy, but it seems unnecessary.

It wasn't so long ago that everyone was touting the japanese system. The fanatical Salaryman and the lockstep with MITI.

I stand by the idea that only the Japanese have the first idea of what is really going on.

Do they want 'Made In Japan' on everything?

Well true they won't go completely red or even partly, the article does only talk about young people joining the ranks and even their views will change with time. Though this might be a wake up call for the current government if it isn't working well and slightly corrupt then a stronger force against them may make them want to stop and change their ways a bit in order to keep the people on thier side.
What?! The LDP change?! Perish the thought!

Oh, and Blouman? Please don't use Jap. K,Thx,Bi.

I stand by the idea that only the Japanese have the first idea of what is really going on.
I'm not even sure that the Japanese know what's going on either.

In general, I really don't see the JCP managing to gain any sort of traction. The Japanese election system is currently gerrymandered in such a way that the large urban populations (The home of all those disenfranchised youths) have very little sway whereas the rural and highly conservative countryside holds the reigns. Currently said countryside is rather pissed off at the main party (LDP), but why I can see them turning to the DPJ (Main opposition party) in order to punish the LDP, unless there's a massive shift in how Diet seats are awarded, the JCP just isn't going to gain any ground.

So if the Japs turn red it will no longer be the world's second largest economy, well if the Japs want to do this then fine let them collapse. I wonder if this means they would become more friendly towards China? Could have grave implications for the West.

Um... isn't "Jap" a bit of a racial slur? I think most people I know who have Japanese ancestry would take issue with the use of the word...

Communism is back in fashion everywhere. People are just batshit retarded; they have one financial crisis and they all want to go back to communism. Listen, fucksticks; under communism, every goddamn DAY will be like this.

Communism is back in fashion everywhere. People are just batshit retarded; they have one financial crisis and they all want to go back to communism. Listen, fucksticks; under communism, every goddamn DAY will be like this.

I don't want communism. I'm a bit more realistic. I'd just like to see a bit more regulation than we have right now.

I don't want communism. I'm a bit more realistic. I'd just like to see a bit more regulation than we have right now.

So, half-assed communism? Sovietism, basically?

So, half-assed communism? Sovietism, basically?

Um... no thanks. Not sure quite where you got that from.

I'm not even sure that the Japanese know what's going on either.


Haha, fair enough.

Maybe it's just the top few percent then. I mean, obviously, there is some sort of plan. The currency gets manipulated when needed &c. So it's not as if its all just random stuffs going on.

But you could make that charge against any country I suppose.

So, wait...

China was Communist, and North Korea is still Communist, and both were dirt poor and mostly starving. China is no longer Communist, and is now a prosperous and rapidly developing economy well on the way to a full market economy. Japan was never Communist and is one of the wealthiest nations on Earth. So they have evidence right before them that maybe that idea isn't too hot.

I mean, fascism I could see but Communism?

So, wait...

China was Communist, and North Korea is still Communist, and both were dirt poor and mostly starving. China is no longer Communist, and is now a prosperous and rapidly developing economy well on the way to a full market economy. Japan was never Communist and is one of the wealthiest nations on Earth. So they have evidence right before them that maybe that idea isn't too hot.

I mean, fascism I could see but Communism?

Sorta. If it seems like the current system doesn't give a damn about you, one might be drawn to different systems.

I also would expect to see a bit more militant nationalism/fascism rather than a resurgence in communism, but the latter isn't that much more surprising than the former would be.

Far right wing parties in Austria...commies in Japan...what's next, a black U.S. President?

So, wait...

China was Communist, and North Korea is still Communist, and both were dirt poor and mostly starving. China is no longer Communist, and is now a prosperous and rapidly developing economy well on the way to a full market economy. Japan was never Communist and is one of the wealthiest nations on Earth. So they have evidence right before them that maybe that idea isn't too hot.

I mean, fascism I could see but Communism?

Well, communism does promise to take care of the downtrodden and economic cast offs of society, and Japan's economy, or current laws, is not exactly doing very much for the lower rung of society, so that would definitely gain an ear with the less well off.

We're talking about an economy that used to run on a cradle to grave employment system after all, but that's long dead and the effects have been simmering for some time now.

So, wait...

China was Communist, and North Korea is still Communist, and both were dirt poor and mostly starving. China is no longer Communist, and is now a prosperous and rapidly developing economy well on the way to a full market economy. Japan was never Communist and is one of the wealthiest nations on Earth. So they have evidence right before them that maybe that idea isn't too hot.

I mean, fascism I could see but Communism?

Yehbut I'm sure Japanese communism would resemble ordinary communism about as much as Japanese capitalism resembles ordinary capitalism.

I mean, the whole cradle to grave thing was pretty socialist to begin with. It was just voluntary I guess.

isn't the growth more tied to the fact the socialist party's successor recently dissolved leaving you only the communist party ???

I don't think it will happen, Japan will probably just lean left a bit on economics.

So, wait...

China was Communist, and North Korea is still Communist, and both were dirt poor and mostly starving. China is no longer Communist, and is now a prosperous and rapidly developing economy well on the way to a full market economy. Japan was never Communist and is one of the wealthiest nations on Earth. So they have evidence right before them that maybe that idea isn't too hot.

I mean, fascism I could see but Communism?
It should be noted that the JCP, has... well, it HAD its heart torn out of it, twice, and has spent the last few decades attempting to both explain why it is relevant to the current world and to the world's second largest economy and that it isn't taking marching orders from any of the other established communist parties. Add in a drive to show that it isn't going to start a revolution any time soon, and you get a brand of communism that is far more friendly to Japan's version of capitalism and the status quo than anything else. They are, however, the only truly left leaning party in Japan that does operate on principals instead of interests.

Apparently it is the 1930s all over again.

This really does destroy all hope in humanity. We say "never again" about the Holocaust, but we can't remember the horrors of communism less than twenty years later, what hope is there that something like the Holocaust WON'T happen again?

What?! The LDP change?! Perish the thought!

Oh, and Blouman? Please don't use Jap. K,Thx,Bi.

Sorry force of habit I wasn't aware that it was a derogatory term, I certainly don't use it as one.

Um... isn't "Jap" a bit of a racial slur? I think most people I know who have Japanese ancestry would take issue with the use of the word...

Maybe it is, NERVUN seemed not to like it and considering he lives there he would know. I don't use it nor mean it as a derogatory term but rather as a short term (similar to calling the British, Brits), but if some Japanese or posters living in Japan take offense to it I will try to watch myself.

This really does destroy all hope in humanity. We say "never again" about the Holocaust, but we can't remember the horrors of communism less than twenty years later, what hope is there that something like the Holocaust WON'T happen again?

It's just as dumb to colour all communists with the same brush as you would the Stalinists in the USSR.

Sorry force of habit I wasn't aware that it was a derogatory term, I certainly don't use it as one.



Maybe it is, NERVUN seemed not to like it and considering he lives there he would know. I don't use it nor mean it as a derogatory term but rather as a short term (similar to calling the British, Brits), but if some Japanese or posters living in Japan take offense to it I will try to watch myself.

Well, it is one, at least in my experience. It might not seem like it would be, but things like that often don't make much sense.

Apparently it is the 1930s all over again.

I don't think it is Trot! I like the saying "History does repeat itself, the first time as tragedy; the second time as farce."

I don't think that the Japanese will go Communist - but if they did, I'm sure they'd do it efficiently. The Wall St jitters we are experiencing was not like the Crash of 1929 that sent China down the path of Communism and Japan down the path of right-wing militarism.
Something else is happening. Japan has been a one-party state (virtually) since the war. The LDP is very corrupt and has been well infiltrated by the Yakuza.... hence the Japanese inability to turn a profit - bad loans to the gangsters who never pay them back.

I predict a split in the LDP with the more left wing faction joining with the LDP (or something like that). Why? Because it's more likely to be a moderate breakaway than a seriously radical shift to the far left.

But anything can happen.

It should be noted that the JCP, has... well, it HAD its heart torn out of it, twice, and has spent the last few decades attempting to both explain why it is relevant to the current world and to the world's second largest economy and that it isn't taking marching orders from any of the other established communist parties. Add in a drive to show that it isn't going to start a revolution any time soon, and you get a brand of communism that is far more friendly to Japan's version of capitalism and the status quo than anything else. They are, however, the only truly left leaning party in Japan that does operate on principals instead of interests.

Like the article said, maybe some people want their political parties to actually stand for something. From what it says, it doesn't seem like there are really all that many choices for that among the major parties.

I don't think it is Trot! I like the saying "History does repeat itself, the first time as tragedy; the second time as farce."

I don't think that the Japanese will go Communist - but if they did, I'm sure they'd do it efficiently. The Wall St jitters we are experiencing was not like the Crash of 1929 that sent China down the path of Communism and Japan down the path of right-wing militarism.
Something else is happening. Japan has been a one-party state (virtually) since the war. The LDP is very corrupt and has been well infiltrated by the Yakuza.... hence the Japanese inability to turn a profit - bad loans to the gangsters who never pay them back.

I predict a split in the LDP with the more left wing faction joining with the LDP (or something like that). Why? Because it's more likely to be a moderate breakaway than a seriously radical shift to the far left.

But anything can happen.

I was more referring to the general trend. Just the other day I ran across an article talking about the general resurgence of the radical socialist left in Germany, particularly in the eastern sections of the country.

But yeah, this time around it will be a farce.

It's just as dumb to colour all communists with the same brush as you would the Stalinists in the USSR.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Communism is just a shit system. So is socialism, for that matter (let's not get into semantics).

Apparently it is the 1930s all over again.
Lord I hope not, the JCP was driven underground, the military reigned, and Japan got started on a very long and very bloody series of wars. I'd rather not live though that, especially since I'm over here.

Sorry force of habit I wasn't aware that it was a derogatory term, I certainly don't use it as one.

Maybe it is, NERVUN seemed not to like it and considering he lives there he would know. I don't use it nor mean it as a derogatory term but rather as a short term (similar to calling the British, Brits), but if some Japanese or posters living in Japan take offense to it I will try to watch myself.
It is indeed. Jap was the derogatory term used by Americans against the Japanese and anyone of Japanese ancestry during WWII. It is racially loaded and not a nice term.

"Young Japanese as stupid as young other people shocker"

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Communism is just a shit system. So is socialism, for that matter (let's not get into semantics).

If you're referring to Stalinist central planning, than I'd agree with you. But such bureaucratic collectivism is not communism. Just because a dictator and a charlatan calls his group the "Communist" party doesn't make it so.

If you're referring to Stalinist central planning, than I'd agree with you. But such bureaucratic collectivism is not communism. Just because a dictator and a charlatan calls his group the "Communist" party doesn't make it so.
The common meaning of the word 'Communism' is 'State communism' - sorry to piss on your chips and all, but the last 90 years have sort of influenced the popular meaning of the word.

It is indeed. Jap was the derogatory term used by Americans against the Japanese and anyone of Japanese ancestry during WWII. It is racially loaded and not a nice term.

As I say I wasn't aware and I didn't use it as a derogatory term, I thought the term used by the Americans in WWII was Nip but very well.

As I say I wasn't aware and I didn't use it as a derogatory term, I thought the term used by the Americans in WWII was Nip but very well.
They did use Nip, but they also used Jap.
http://superdickery.com/images/stories/dick/97_4_0000058.jpg

If you're referring to Stalinist central planning, than I'd agree with you. But such bureaucratic collectivism is not communism. Just because a dictator and a charlatan calls his group the "Communist" party doesn't make it so.

You cannot have democratic communism, and if you try to have democratic communism, you will have no communism.

And I'm using communism in the most commonly understood sense.

COMMIE SAMURAI!!!!!
:eek2::hail::eek2:

Please, somebody go make an image macro. Please.

You cannot have democratic communism, and if you try to have democratic communism, you will have no communism.

And I'm using communism in the most commonly understood sense.

Kind of hard to have a stateless, classless society without democracy.

Kind of hard to have a stateless, classless society without democracy.

The last time they applied democracy to communism, everybody voted against it.

This whole thing makes no sense anyway. Since when do the Japanese think for themselves? They just imitate the hell out of whoever is superior to them.

Since when do the Japanese think for themselves?

Kimi wa "troll" da yo. Urusai.

Kimi wa "troll" da yo. Urusai.

It doesn't make any sense to tell him off in a language he can't understand. :p

It doesn't make any sense to tell him off in a language he can't understand. :p

Oh, I'm pretty sure he can grasp it by the context and the one English word.

It should be noted that the JCP, has... well, it HAD its heart torn out of it, twice, and has spent the last few decades attempting to both explain why it is relevant to the current world and to the world's second largest economy and that it isn't taking marching orders from any of the other established communist parties. Add in a drive to show that it isn't going to start a revolution any time soon, and you get a brand of communism that is far more friendly to Japan's version of capitalism and the status quo than anything else. They are, however, the only truly left leaning party in Japan that does operate on principals instead of interests.
what do you think japanese communism would look like if they ever gained majority status in the government?

i cant see it being soviet style or chinese style? what is japanese style communism?

Kimi wa "troll" da yo.
Iie, chigaimasu. Ferrous Oxide-chan is speaking the truth after all. The Japanese do have a tendency to import aspects of other cultures that they feel might be better or superior to their own, implant a Japanese heart and improve upon them.

Of course said truth also ignores the incredible list of firsts that Japan has come up with over the years in art, science, technology, and other fields. It also ignores the depth of Japanese cultural history and heritage that stretches back longer than the current Western one does. So, only someone who has no clue what he is talking about or a moron would actually ignore that reality, but I'm sure Ferrous Oxide-chan just was mentioning a part of the history of the matter.

what do you think japanese communism would look like if they ever gained majority status in the government?

i cant see it being soviet style or chinese style? what is japanese style communism?

I can imagine a bit more feng shui being introduced into it. Probably a lot less stuffy and humourless than Mother Russia. But still oh so formal.

And an equal distribution of sushi. :p

what do you think japanese communism would look like if they ever gained majority status in the government?

i cant see it being soviet style or chinese style? what is japanese style communism?
Japan would return to isolationism. The JCP's main thrust is a complete break in the US-Japan security treaty and the removal of all US military bases, weapons, and personnel in Japan. The JCP also wants Japan to go socialist, though not true communist. From what I understand, the idea would be to remove the large corporations as the driving force for both the economy and politics and put the people there. Pretty much I would expect a JCP ruled Japan to return to a period of internal looking where it directs the still functioning consumerist society to be more responsive to people's welfare than corporate profits.

Or, in other words, more like Japan of the late 50's, early 60's. Disengaged from words affairs, more concerned with internal matters and rebuilding.

I can imagine a bit more feng shui being introduced into it. Probably a lot less stuffy and humourless than Mother Russia. But still oh so formal.

And an equal distribution of sushi. :p
the whole communist manga thing is humorous enough.

I can imagine a bit more feng shui being introduced into it. Probably a lot less stuffy and humourless than Mother Russia. But still oh so formal.
Pssst, feng shui is Chinese. :tongue:

And an equal distribution of sushi. :p
Great, MORE conveyor belt sushi! :(

Japan would return to isolationism. The JCP's main thrust is a complete break in the US-Japan security treaty and the removal of all US military bases, weapons, and personnel in Japan. The JCP also wants Japan to go socialist, though not true communist. From what I understand, the idea would be to remove the large corporations as the driving force for both the economy and politics and put the people there. Pretty much I would expect a JCP ruled Japan to return to a period of internal looking where it directs the still functioning consumerist society to be more responsive to people's welfare than corporate profits.

Or, in other words, more like Japan of the late 50's, early 60's. Disengaged from words affairs, more concerned with internal matters and rebuilding.
do you think that that would be good for japan?

or maybe...

in what ways might that be good for japan?

(1) The Japanese do have a tendency to import aspects of other cultures that they feel might be better or superior to their own, implant a Japanese heart and improve upon them.

(2) So, only someone who has no clue what he is talking about or a moron would actually ignore that reality, but I'm sure Ferrous Oxide-chan just was mentioning a part of the history of the matter.

1 - I know as much, but he said specifically "don't think for themselves".

2 - Well, I'm not. ;)

Or, in other words, more like Japan of the late 50's, early 60's. Disengaged from words affairs, more concerned with internal matters and rebuilding.

Well, rebuilding from WHAT disaster this time around though? o_O

the whole communist manga thing is humorous enough.

So... "Comrade Ikari"? o_O

So... "Comrade Ikari"? o_O
well if the japanese do to western political ideas what they do to western religious ideas....

i would SOOOO read that!

do you think that that would be good for japan?

or maybe...

in what ways might that be good for japan?
No. As much as the JCP jumps up and down about it, and as bad as the LDP is, Japan cannot retreat back to the Tokugawa days of isolation from the West. It would be disastrous for both Japan and the rest of the world. I think that the security treaty should be looked at, and there is a desperate need for troop realignment in Japan by the US military, but the presence of the military in Japan has allowed Japan to focus its attention and energy elsewhere. Like the nationalists who cannot understand that it's not 1937 and that the Empire of Japan is dead and buried, the JCP seems to have issues understanding the world as it is.

1 - I know as much, but he said specifically "don't think for themselves".

2 - Well, I'm not. ;)
Oh I know what he said. And you need to get your sarcasm meter checked. ~_^

Well, rebuilding from WHAT disaster this time around though? o_O
Hopefully, none. But it would have to be very major for the JCP to somehow get into power.

well if the japanese do to western political ideas what they do to western religious ideas....

i would SOOOO read that!

"Zankoku na tenshi no yôo ni, "COMRADE" wa shinwa ni nare?"

Oh I know what he said. And you need to get your sarcasm meter checked. ~_^

I was pretty sure you did, but decided to play it safe. ;)

"Zankoku na tenshi no yôo ni, "COMRADE" wa shinwa ni nare?"
ok so i wouldnt read THAT

but i would read it if it were translated into english.

No. As much as the JCP jumps up and down about it, and as bad as the LDP is, Japan cannot retreat back to the Tokugawa days of isolation from the West. It would be disastrous for both Japan and the rest of the world. I think that the security treaty should be looked at, and there is a desperate need for troop realignment in Japan by the US military, but the presence of the military in Japan has allowed Japan to focus its attention and energy elsewhere. Like the nationalists who cannot understand that it's not 1937 and that the Empire of Japan is dead and buried, the JCP seems to have issues understanding the world as it is.



i suppose they would have to take a crash course in reality if they ever gained real power. success tends to make you rethink your more extreme positions.

surely it would be good for japan to get away from the total support for big corporations thing.

ok so i wouldnt read THAT

but i would read it if it were translated into english.

"Like a comrade without a sense of mercy..."

"Like a comrade without a sense of mercy..."
oooo yeah. great phrase!

"Zankoku na tenshi no yôo ni, "COMRADE" wa shinwa ni nare?"
*Twitch, twitch, twitch*

i suppose they would have to take a crash course in reality if they ever gained real power. success tends to make you rethink your more extreme positions.

surely it would be good for japan to get away from the total support for big corporations thing.
Indeed, but not as far as the JCP would like to go.

I agree, though I do wonder what sort of reforms a communist party in parliament would actually try to push, and which ones it would try to clock.

At any rate, I think the broader economic issues regarding employment in Japan are still heavily influenced by cultural factors too. Keeping a traditional salaryman is expensive and more often than not counterproductive in the 21st century, but it somehow still seems to be the only real alternative to keeping temp workers around. I don't know enough about existing regulations to say whether there is a legal basis for this dichotomy, but it seems unnecessary.

Actually, a lot of the stuff my union deals with is wrapped up in this sort of case.

Dispatching workers on a temporary basis was legalized in 1985 to accommodate people who wanted a diversified work style and businesses seeking to cut costs, but the job categories were limited to 13 occupations, including secretaries and translators.

In 1999, however, the Labors Dispatch Law was amended to allow temp workers to fill most occupations. When manufacturing was finally included in 2003, only a handful of professions, including lawyers and doctors, were still banned.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20081017f1.html

Here is a run down dispatch as it affects a sector of the industy I'm in. Do note the source.

http://www.generalunion.org/law/dispatch.htm


What? You fools! Don't Communize! Unionize!

See abobe link and my sig. ;)

What?! The LDP change?! Perish the thought!

What? Koizumi's push to privatize Japan Post wasn't change enough for ya? :p

I'm not even sure that the Japanese know what's going on either.

Indeed.

In general, I really don't see the JCP managing to gain any sort of traction. The Japanese election system is currently gerrymandered in such a way that the large urban populations (The home of all those disenfranchised youths) have very little sway whereas the rural and highly conservative countryside holds the reigns. Currently said countryside is rather pissed off at the main party (LDP), but why I can see them turning to the DPJ (Main opposition party) in order to punish the LDP, unless there's a massive shift in how Diet seats are awarded, the JCP just isn't going to gain any ground.

Very true.

Maybe it's just the top few percent then. I mean, obviously, there is some sort of plan. The currency gets manipulated when needed &c. So it's not as if its all just random stuffs going on.

But you could make that charge against any country I suppose.

I'm not so sure even the elites really know what's going on, or more importantly, what to do.

Sorta. If it seems like the current system doesn't give a damn about you, one might be drawn to different systems.

I also would expect to see a bit more militant nationalism/fascism rather than a resurgence in communism, but the latter isn't that much more surprising than the former would be.

Indeed to both.

Well, communism does promise to take care of the downtrodden and economic cast offs of society, and Japan's economy, or current laws, is not exactly doing very much for the lower rung of society, so that would definitely gain an ear with the less well off.

We're talking about an economy that used to run on a cradle to grave employment system after all, but that's long dead and the effects have been simmering for some time now.

Note that said system wasn't for all. The streets of Airin were the mean streets of Osaka long before the bubble burst.

Yehbut I'm sure Japanese communism would resemble ordinary communism about as much as Japanese capitalism resembles ordinary capitalism.

I mean, the whole cradle to grave thing was pretty socialist to begin with. It was just voluntary I guess.

Not really. It was more feudal. The term "kintract" - a portmanteau of kin and contract.
http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/papers/research-review/021.html

A good example is that, even today, an old school boss can be relied on to give assistance and advice on when and who to marry. (And I don't just mean vauge stuff a friend might give...)


isn't the growth more tied to the fact the socialist party's successor recently dissolved leaving you only the communist party ???

Err, did you mean the social democratic party which is alive, but in decline? http://www5.sdp.or.jp/

It should be noted that the JCP, has... well, it HAD its heart torn out of it, twice, and has spent the last few decades attempting to both explain why it is relevant to the current world and to the world's second largest economy and that it isn't taking marching orders from any of the other established communist parties. Add in a drive to show that it isn't going to start a revolution any time soon, and you get a brand of communism that is far more friendly to Japan's version of capitalism and the status quo than anything else. They are, however, the only truly left leaning party in Japan that does operate on principals instead of interests.

True all, except I'd say they're the only substantive party in Japan that operates on principal.

what do you think japanese communism would look like if they ever gained majority status in the government?

i cant see it being soviet style or chinese style? what is japanese style communism?

Due to certain Japanese cultural prpoensities, it could be pretty frightening if they went full out commie - it'd be Maoism minus Mao and his cult of personality. Fortunately NERV hit it again.

Japan would return to isolationism. The JCP's main thrust is a complete break in the US-Japan security treaty and the removal of all US military bases, weapons, and personnel in Japan. The JCP also wants Japan to go socialist, though not true communist. From what I understand, the idea would be to remove the large corporations as the driving force for both the economy and politics and put the people there. Pretty much I would expect a JCP ruled Japan to return to a period of internal looking where it directs the still functioning consumerist society to be more responsive to people's welfare than corporate profits.

Or, in other words, more like Japan of the late 50's, early 60's. Disengaged from words affairs, more concerned with internal matters and rebuilding.

Minus the US presence and US backed gutting of the left and unions.

*Twitch, twitch, twitch*

*Enjoys NERVUN's twitching, and, hoping to elicit some more...*

So, wealth would be equally shared among all the (equally equal!) Rei clones...

Commie Japan... I can't envision Nihon becoming a Red country.:(

/sigh.

Commie Japan... I can't envision Nihon becoming a Red country.:(

/sigh.

Calma-te, mismo que el partido tienga la maioría (lo que yá no és fácil), és improbable...

(Espero que yo no tienga matado a la lengua española...)

Calma-te, mismo que el partido tienga la maioría, es improbable...

(Espero que yo no tienga matado a la lengua española...)

I hope so. A Communist Japan sounds too odd.

(A minha língua! The've matou um pouco, mas pode-se perceber o que quer dizer.:tongue:)

do you think that that would be good for japan?

or maybe...

in what ways might that be good for japan?

IMHO, what Japan needs rather than a communist revolution is an inside shock - most of the big major cultural changes have been outsiders breaking the forcing country to mold (in one way or another).

Well, rebuilding from WHAT disaster this time around though? o_O

The overdue next Great Kanto Earthquake + Climate Change + the financial disaster of the baby boom retirements + the collapse of DPRK + ??? = failure to profit

No. As much as the JCP jumps up and down about it, and as bad as the LDP is, Japan cannot retreat back to the Tokugawa days of isolation from the West. It would be disastrous for both Japan and the rest of the world. I think that the security treaty should be looked at, and there is a desperate need for troop realignment in Japan by the US military, but the presence of the military in Japan has allowed Japan to focus its attention and energy elsewhere. Like the nationalists who cannot understand that it's not 1937 and that the Empire of Japan is dead and buried, the JCP seems to have issues understanding the world as it is.

Indeed.

Hopefully, none. But it would have to be very major for the JCP to somehow get into power.

Double indeed.

i suppose they would have to take a crash course in reality if they ever gained real power. success tends to make you rethink your more extreme positions.

Heh. Or sell out, which is essentially what the socialist did when they broke the LDP's hold shortly in the mid 90s.

surely it would be good for japan to get away from the total support for big corporations thing.

Indeed.

I hope so. A Communist Japan sounds too odd.

(A minha língua! The've matou um pouco, mas pode-se perceber o que quer dizer.:tongue:)

:)

I'm assuming you know some Portugal Portuguese. :)

:)

I'm assuming you know some Portugal Portuguese. :)

Yes, I do. Of course, Portuguese and Spanish are cousins so... :)

Err, did you mean the social democratic party which is alive, but in decline? http://www5.sdp.or.jp/



My apologizes My source (wiki) said it had merged with some other party then that party dissolved.

Yes, I do. Of course, Portuguese and Spanish are cousins so... :)

My Brazillian and Spanish speaking friends here communicate moderately well...

And the People's Republic of Japan may look something like this: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.cc.matsuyama-u.ac.jp/~tamura/kyouwakokukennpou.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%2597%25A5%25E6%259C%25AC%25E4%25BA%25BA%25E6%25B0%2591%25E5%2585%25B1%25E5%2592%2 58C%25E5%259B%25BD%25E6%2586%25B2%25E6%25B3%2595%25E8%258D%2589%25E6%25A1%2588%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den %26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

(Google trans of this: http://www.cc.matsuyama-u.ac.jp/~tamura/kyouwakokukennpou.htm)

*Twitch, twitch, twitch*


What? No overexposed and supersized veins? :p

What? No overexposed and supersized veins? :p

They were taken away by the government to spread the vein-ness.

My Brazillian and Spanish speaking friends here communicate moderately well...

And the People's Republic of Japan may look something like this: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.cc.matsuyama-u.ac.jp/~tamura/kyouwakokukennpou.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%2597%25A5%25E6%259C%25AC%25E4%25BA%25BA%25E6%25B0%2591%25E5%2585%25B1%25E5%2592%2 58C%25E5%259B%25BD%25E6%2586%25B2%25E6%25B3%2595%25E8%258D%2589%25E6%25A1%2588%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den %26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

(Google trans of this: http://www.cc.matsuyama-u.ac.jp/~tamura/kyouwakokukennpou.htm)

Oh, indeed. It's fairly easy to communicate in Spanish with a person that speaks Portuguese.

And after reading that, superficially of course, a Communist Japan doesn't sound so bad. Then again, I could be mistaken and it would be catastrophic, and my initial reservations at having a Red Japan still stand.:tongue:

Japan is not going to turn Communist. More likley it will result in better labor laws in the future for the japanese. Perhaps some form of watered down socialism, but communism I find that hard to believe.

My apologizes My source (wiki) said it had merged with some other party then that party dissolved.

Ah, looking at the wiki I see where you got off track. You were prolly looking at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialist_Party_(Japan) rather than this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Socialist_Party

The DSPJ was an offshoot of the JSP (AKA SDPJ).

Ah, looking at the wiki I see where you got off track. You were prolly looking at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialist_Party_(Japan) rather than this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Socialist_Party

The DSPJ was an offshoot of the JSP (AKA SDPJ).

yeah. the mergers and splits in the Japanese opposition parties since the 90's really are hard to follow for non Japanese. though i think this is a plot by the LDP. act like japan is going communist and anti American in order to encourage the Americans to take a pro Japanese stance on Dokdo/ Takeshima(spelling). though 400k in the entire population of japan is still pretty small.

Iie, chigaimasu. Ferrous Oxide-chan is speaking the truth after all. The Japanese do have a tendency to import aspects of other cultures that they feel might be better or superior to their own, implant a Japanese heart and improve upon them.

Of course said truth also ignores the incredible list of firsts that Japan has come up with over the years in art, science, technology, and other fields. It also ignores the depth of Japanese cultural history and heritage that stretches back longer than the current Western one does. So, only someone who has no clue what he is talking about or a moron would actually ignore that reality, but I'm sure Ferrous Oxide-chan just was mentioning a part of the history of the matter.

Well, they've got the Kana scripts, they used to use a German/British hybrid Diet, and have managed to replicate US culture to a point that it creeps out Americans. That's good enough for me.

yeah. the mergers and splits in the Japanese opposition parties since the 90's really are hard to follow for non Japanese.

Heh. Tell me about it. I lived though all that crap while over here, and I'm still confused....

though i think this is a plot by the LDP. act like japan is going communist and anti American in order to encourage the Americans to take a pro Japanese stance on Dokdo/ Takeshima(spelling).



though 400k in the entire population of japan is still pretty small.

True, but considering the level of political apathy among the general populace, and the young in particular, here it's an interesting trend.

True, but considering the level of political apathy among the general populace, and the young in particular, here it's an interesting trend.

the most I see happening is they get enough votes that the LDP offers them a position in a coalition government. And even gives them a term as prime minister. Then sabotages everything they try to do. anything goes bad over all it is their fault because they were the prime minister. And because they couldn't issue any reforms they alienate their base.

In fact didn't it happen once before ?(with JSP not JCP I think)

the most I see happening is they get enough votes that the LDP offers them a position in a coalition government. And even gives them a term as prime minister. Then sabotages everything they try to do. anything goes bad over all it is their fault because they were the prime minister. And because they couldn't issue any reforms they alienate their base.

In fact didn't it happen once before ?

Close. That's sort of what happened to the Socialists in 94.

I don't see the JCP doing that for reasons NERV outlined above.

So... "Comrade Ikari"? o_O

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd135/deathbysp4m/Comrade-Gendo.jpg

It was kind of a rush job, but I give you Comrade Ikari!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd135/deathbysp4m/Comrade-Gendo.jpg

It was kind of a rush job, but I give you Comrade Ikari!

I love you.:fluffle:

I love you.:fluffle:

Awesome is what I do. :fluffle:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd135/deathbysp4m/Comrade-Gendo.jpg

It was kind of a rush job, but I give you Comrade Ikari!

/win...

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1893/cloud1gp9.jpg

All I have is MS Paint.

have managed to replicate US culture to a point that it creeps out Americans.

I definitely wouldn't say that their culture is that of the US....

*snip image*

All I have is MS Paint.

Karl Marx (I think that was him) is a lot stronger than I thought he was.

Karl Marx (I think that was him) is a lot stronger than I thought he was.

Reading Hegel allowed him to synthesise his weakness into a new strength. :p