NationStates Jolt Archive

"Crikey", that's what I forgot to use, mainly cause we never use it.

Yeah I know what you mean and yes we do have strange ways to pronounce words, and if you have problems understanding it that is fair enough.

Maybe I just need to accustom my eyes to Aussie speech. That's what I did with Brits and now I can follow them. Wanna help me, mate?:p

You are one dirty boy good sir.

What? I'm just saying we could smuggle large amounts of liquor back there.

As a side note, Firefox just informed me that I have been spelling liquor wrong for years.

See, I'm sure you could understand me. There's just so many variants of the Aussie accent that you can't just blanket it all under one definition.

Well that is true, I saw a doco on the Australian accent and IIRC they were 18 distinct Australian accents. We are a continent after all no doubt that some are different and even words mean different things depending on what state you are in.

Maybe I just need to accustom my eyes to Aussie speech. That's what I did with Brits and now I can follow them. Wanna help me, mate?:p

ohh, yes I do, I'll be right over :D

You are one dirty boy good sir.

Ahhhhh ghunda munda!

The gov tried to get ISPs to sign up to a similar scheme over here, 'cept voluntarily, and the ISPs didn't like it one bit. Except Virgin of course, but all they did was sent out 'warning' letters to its users to reiterate that using Virgin broadband for illegal purposes breached their terms and conditions. Monitoring individual IP addresses without warrant is still generally frowned upon, however.

I think the planned scheme still required the ISPs to approve it. And in the end, the system is so stupid that it could leave banks and bank customers open to multi-million dollar theft.

What? I'm just saying we could smuggle large amounts of liquor back there.

As a side note, Firefox just informed me that I have been spelling liquor wrong for years.

:D Weirdo.

ohh, yes I do, I'll be right over :D

Woohoo! Imma learn Aussie speech! :D

Woohoo! Imma learn Aussie speech! :D

But you promised to teach me Spanish first... :(

But you promised to teach me Spanish first... :(

I can multi-task, mate.:wink:

Well that is true, I saw a doco on the Australian accent and IIRC they were 18 distinct Australian accents. We are a continent after all no doubt that some are different and even words mean different things depending on what state you are in.

That's just accounting for skips, though. If you include people with foreign influences, it's more.

Incidentally, if I get drunk and someone starts talking about Eastern Europe or anything else that makes me think of my Ukrainian heritage, I'll start talking with a Slavic accent. :p

I can multi-task, mate.:wink:

Yay! :p

I can multi-task, mate.:wink:

I like the sound of that :)

*roflmao

What's he going to do, shoot the internet???

He's going to kill Al Gore! :eek:

Well that is true, I saw a doco on the Australian accent and IIRC they were 18 distinct Australian accents. We are a continent after all no doubt that some are different and even words mean different things depending on what state you are in.

I guess my main problem is that I learned English from an American tutor. My ear got used to American phonetics, making it hard to follow English from any other nationality. It has only be recent that I've been able, from the type of work I do, to follow other English accents and understand them.

I was born in Birmingham, UK - have lived here all my life so far... longest I've been away from Birmingham is like 3 weeks heh but I apparently don't have any kind of a Birmingham accent at all - no idea what kinda accent I have... ah well - just thought I'd share
:p

I guess my main problem is that I learned English from an American tutor. My ear got used to American phonetics, making it hard to follow English from any other nationality. It has only be recent that I've been able, from the type of work I do, to follow other English accents and understand them.

I think I could help you a bit there too. ;)

I think I could help you a bit there too. ;)

You're quite the giving Brit, aren't you, Zero-kun. ;)

Oh gosh get a room, you're making me jealous
:p

You're quite the giving Brit, aren't you, Zero-kun. ;)

Always. I give and give, but never take. :)

Name one democracy that has lasted 230 years or more without periodic military coups or emperor declarations mucking it up? We've really been around for a while and while I wince at all the freedoms we've lost, I am pleased with how many we've kept for so long compared to other democracies throughout history.

I would claim a civil war would be a problem...

I guess my main problem is that I learned English from an American tutor. My ear got used to American phonetics, making it hard to follow English from any other nationality. It has only be recent that I've been able, from the type of work I do, to follow other English accents and understand them.

Oh ok yeah for sure interesting, I suppose that is true for a lot of people to an extent even those that speak English have the same problem with other accents.

Should have got an Aussie :p

the american system is not a democracy

Not if you have anything to say about it, huh?

Oh gosh get a room, you're making me jealous
:p

Ah shush, you Brit.:D

Always. I give and give, but never take. :)

You know I just love it when you two talk to each other on these threads, always guaranteed a laugh.

By "inappropriate for children" that means porn, right? So they're gonna block porn sites?

You know I just love it when you two talk to each other on these threads, always guaranteed a laugh.

That's cos we're the odd couple. At your comic services since 2008. :D

By "inappropriate for children" that means porn, right? So they're gonna block porn sites?

Yep "inappropriate for children" is whatever they want it to mean.

That's cos we're the odd couple. At your comic services since 2008. :D

So cute lol

That's cos we're the odd couple. At your comic services since 2008. :D

We're friends from another site. We like to mess around with each other. :D

Yep "inappropriate for children" is whatever they want it to mean.

I just hope they don't turn like China and ban NSG. Hehehe! That would be most unfortunate.

Bunch of deviants.....
^_^;;;

By "inappropriate for children" that means porn, right? So they're gonna block porn sites?

The problem is that whoever controls the list (which we're not allow to see, by the way) has way too much power.

Bunch of deviants.....
^_^;;;

*fwaps you on the head*
I totally dislike that word... deviant. Pffft. I am a temptress. And we're talking about Aussies, Fascism and accents that screw us over.:mad:


:wink:

I am a temptress.

You got that right. :p

I just hope they don't turn like China and ban NSG. Hehehe! That would be most unfortunate.

I wouldn't know what to do with myself. I would be rioting "Give me Nanatsu or give me death"

The PM did live in China for 20 years and he is a Sinophile so he may be trying to turn it into China a little bit.

The problem is that whoever controls the list (which we're not allow to see, by the way) has way too much power.

You're not allowed to see the blacklist? Now that would be cause for alarm if true lol - definitely in need of some sort of overseers, like a committee or some such. Independent of the government I might add lol

*fwaps you on the head*
I totally dislike that word... deviant. Pffft. I am a temptress. And we're talking about Aussies, Fascism and accents that screw us over.:mad:


:wink:

'Deviant'
:p

Aussie Fascists that we cannot understand y'say?
:eek:

The female Platypus is also dangerous and can kill you if she gets you with her spurs. I wonder if the wombat or lyrebird are dangerous, perhaps not, one of the few.

Wombats could do a lot of damage, have you seen the size of their claws?

Wombats could do a lot of damage, have you seen the size of their claws?

Me and my mate today actually had a conversation about the Australian wildlife. We concluded that:

1) Australia fauna have no real predators because the climate sorts them out
2) Aborigines managed to enter the ecosystem successfully and have an effect

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1399635276



I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.
My condolences, but we all know the government knows best...

'Deviant'
:p

Aussie Fascists that we cannot understand y'say?
:eek:

Do not want word!:mad:

Call me temptress, or I'll castrate you.:eek2:

And yes, we were talking about Aussies we cannot understand.:D

I wouldn't know what to do with myself. I would be rioting "Give me Nanatsu or give me death"

The PM did live in China for 20 years and he is a Sinophile so he may be trying to turn it into China a little bit.

So, the PM is a Ausnese? Or is it Chistralian?

:D

Yeah, that's actually concerning; the PM speaks Mandarin, is a Sinophile, and is now just trying to emulate their policy.

Yeah, that's actually concerning; the PM speaks Mandarin, is a Sinophile, and is now just trying to emulate their policy.

Yes, I can see the concern if the guy wants Australia to be an Anglicized version of China.

Yes, I can see the concern if the guy wants Australia to be an Anglicized version of China.

Agreed. I don't care if China is an up and coming power; they're jerks. Better to emulate Japan or Korea Republic than China.

Agreed. I don't care if China is an up and coming power; they're jerks. Better to emulate Japan or Korea Republic than China.

Well, when can the PM be removed? I mean, how long til the next elections?

Name one democracy that has lasted 230 years or more without periodic military coups or emperor declarations mucking it up? We've really been around for a while and while I wince at all the freedoms we've lost, I am pleased with how many we've kept for so long compared to other democracies throughout history.

Canada?

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1399635276



I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.

That is bad, but Australia is not a fascist state.

Furthermore, you are Kievan-Prussia/The Potato Factory. I have you identified now.

Well, when can the PM be removed? I mean, how long til the next elections?

Well, it's either three or four years, I can't remember. Either 2010 or 2011. But no govt. in Australian history has ever served only one term, so if Rudd actually gets ousted, we know he really fucked up bad.

Furthermore, you are Kievan-Prussia/The Potato Factory. I have you identified now.

I thought that was common knowledge.

Well, it's either three or four years, I can't remember. Either 2010 or 2011. But no govt. in Australian history has ever served only one term, so if Rudd actually gets ousted, we know he really fucked up bad.

Is there any dirt on the guy? Maybe if that could help Rudd get ousted or something. A man with his politics, in power, sounds like a bad bad thing. He kinda reminds me of Francisco Franco and I don't like it.

I thought that was common knowledge.
Obviously not.

Aren't you DoS?

Obviously not.

Aren't you DoS?

No, I don't think so. Never have been. I think the fact that I actually believe everything I say sort of helps my cause.

Is there any dirt on the guy? Maybe if that could help Rudd get ousted or something. A man with his politics, in power, sounds like a bad bad thing. He kinda reminds me of Francisco Franco and I don't like it.

No idea. The Chinese connection is a double-edged sword; I think his policy is enough to get him outed, though. The Australia 20-20 debacle, for example.

No idea. The Chinese connection is a double-edged sword; I think his policy is enough to get him outed, though. The Australia 20-20 debacle, for example.

Well, I do hope Rudd only stays in power for one term.

Hopefully. Like I said, no Aussie govt. has served just one term, but he really seems to be setting up a disaster for his Labor party; he's pissed off the pensioners by not increasing their meagre allowance, and he's pissed off us kids by trying to destroy all the things we like.

Hopefully. Like I said, no Aussie govt. has served just one term, but he really seems to be setting up a disaster for his Labor party; he's pissed off the pensioners by not increasing their meagre allowance, and he's pissed off us kids by trying to destroy all the things we like.

Then his govt. is doomed.

No, I don't think so. Never have been. I think the fact that I actually believe everything I say sort of helps my cause.

I think the fact that you believe everything you say makes you an insanely racist jerk.

I think the fact that you believe everything you say makes you an insanely racist jerk.

Probably. I think I'm either more mentally handicapped than I know, or my Aspergers causes me to be incredibly blunt about how I feel.

Then his govt. is doomed.

We'll see. He's made some horrible moves so far; all his taxes were blocked by the Senate, he called a big conference with Australia's best and brightest to decide his policies (that sounds good, but in reality, it means he had no policies to begin with) and that just crapped out because everyone was too idealistic, and then this Internet crap.

We'll see. He's made some horrible moves so far; all his taxes were blocked by the Senate, he called a big conference with Australia's best and brightest to decide his policies (that sounds good, but in reality, it means he had no policies to begin with) and that just crapped out because everyone was too idealistic, and then this Internet crap.

The internet issue is problematic. That's infringing on the citizens' right to see and do whatever they want. It's short of making Australia a Commie country... rather like China.:(

Nobody wants to be China, except Kevin Rudd. It's just not a good country.

I dunno. It's like, Australia's been very bureaucratically conservative, but it's never been enforced. And now that Rudd's enforced it, all hell has broken loose.

I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.
point of order.

I believe the majority of us here in NSG cannot vote in the Australia elections.

It was directed towards all the other Australians who voted Labor; I think just me voted Liberal.

Oh, it's funny, is it? Yeah, fucking hilarious.

It's as funny as racism.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1399635276



I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.

This is happening in nearly all "western democracies"

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1399635276



I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.
Well, screw. There goes my plan to evacuate to Australia when McCain becomes US prez. :tongue:

Ferrous, I'm an Australian and my vote went to Rudd's party via the Greens. I'm as jealous of retaining my freedom as you are. But don't think that Howard was much different on censorship. The main parties are virtually identical....and both would sell their butts to China or the US or any other interestewd buyer if the price was right.

We have always had some control of our internet anyway. Microsoft has been playing Big Brother for years. I wish the bastards would censor spam! Don't freak out too much about it. I bet that as one day follows another, you'll wake up and the new day will be pretty much like the old. And yes....the state will be trying to get more power and control of our lives so it is good to resist.

Ok, ok ok... I got up to page 8, and decided some CLARITY was necessary in this picture. I apologise if this has already been said before, but if it hasn't, this is kinda a big deal.

Ok, the Australian government is based roughly on the Westminster system, with the executive embedded in the legislature: the lower house of parliament is just like the lower house in Britain and the US, with members elected to represent a roughly equal number of constituents. The thingis, the party (or coalition) with the majority forms government, and pushes legislation through the lower house to enact it's policy. The upper house is, like in the US, supposed to be a state's house or a house of review, but usually just votes along party lines, so that if a government has control over the Senate (like they did under the last years of Howard) they could just about do anything. That's how the Australian government works, in a nutshell.

So we had an election last year, and now we have a new government. They are instituting this new whizz bang broadband network. We've been living with total shit for so long, that while the coalition (the previous government) decided to sit on their hands and hope private enterprise would take care of it, the new government, headed by Prime Minister Rudd (that's the Rudd who was mentioned before) decided to roll out the infrastructure itself, and then they would have the bargaining power to ensure that most Australians got a better deal than they have now.

The BAD thing is that this new stuff will be coming with a filter which, according to this (http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21192/53/) article, will lower internet speeds by 30% under ideal test conditions. Not to mention it will not block the p2p and other file sharing services which is where the majority of child porn is exchanged.

PLUS, according to this (http://www.crikey.com.au/Media-Arts-and-Sports/20081017-And-the-Wankley-Award-goes-to-Conroys-net-filtering-scheme.html) article, it will also block R-rated porn (which can be got anywhere) and maybe even places like Second Life.

My issue is that it seems to be a big, expensive, waste of time which will hurt internet speeds, not stop kiddy porn, and could POTENTIALLY be used for evil. If it was going to stop the kiddie porn thing, I could live with it, or if it wasn't going to slow my down I would grumble but accept. However, it looks like it's not going to do either of these things. Which is what pisses me off.

Oh, and as for the whole "getting rid of Rudd" thing, I doubt it'll happen. The truth is, most people still have too many bad memories of the Howard era, Rudd's handling of the economic crisis has been pretty good (not to mention supported by the opposition), and people just don't care enough about things like internet and extra taxes on RTD's when he finally got his act together and gave pensioners more money and lower/middle classes more to spend over Christmas.

And the next election is in 2010. If the opposition can get it's act together then maybe, MAYBE, they'll retain a Senate majority (which is good), but quite frankly I'd still rather have mildly conservative Rudd than the ultra-conservative held Coalition. Like the Republicans in the US, they are dominated by an angry, vocal, socially conservative minority, and so lose more credibility with the populace than KRudd.

Well, screw. There goes my plan to evacuate to Australia when McCain becomes US prez. :tongue:

Damn you Bill Maher.

Your dysfunctional, gun-crazy, bible-thumping country is starting to look better and better.

Sorry to have to bring this into it, but our dysfunctional, gun-crazy, bible-thumping country saved your Australian asses from having to learn Japanese.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1399635276



I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.

It never was a western democracy to begin with! It was a south eastern democracy. ;):p Get your hemispheres right! :mad:

Sorry to have to bring this into it, but our dysfunctional, gun-crazy, bible-thumping country saved your Australian asses from having to learn Japanese.

You know what I am American, and I notice whenever some of us come under fire we bring up ww2. This is not to take away from past American achievements what we did in ww2 was needed and aplaudable, but we werent alone. Also past acts do not excuse current problems we cant glory in the past and forget the fucked up present.

Also we dont tote guns or thump the bible in the blue states.

You know what I am American, and I notice whenever some of us come under fire we bring up ww2. This is not to take away from past American achievements what we did in ww2 was needed and aplaudable, but we werent alone. Also past acts do not excuse curent problems we cant glory in the past and forget the fucked up present.

Also we dont tote guns or thump the bible in the blue states.

I know, it's great to be winners, eh? And when defending the Australians from inevitable Japanese invasion, yes, we essentially were alone. Sure we had a handful of Australian and New Zealander troops (who fought like men possessed, btw), but when it comes down to it, we sorta did take Japan on in the Pacific single-handedly.

I personally just don't like the OP from reading his posts, so I just wanted to see his reaction to my generic WWII reference post :D

So how long until Australia turns into the Road Warrior?

Add "facism" and "liberal democracy" to the list of things Ferrus knows jack shit about.

Do not worry. Bush has sworn to restore democracy to your country. We are preparing to intervene right now.

Do not worry. Bush has sworn to restore democracy to your country. We are preparing to intervene right now.

Bush will soon be gone and hopefully Obama will replace him. If Obama doesnt win can you intervene and save my country.

can you intervene and save my country.

Ive been asking for this since 2002.

Bush will soon be gone and hopefully Obama will replace him. If Obama doesnt win can you intervene and save my country.

Bush just suspended the election and congress until after the war to restore Australian democracy is over.

Add "facism" and "liberal democracy" to the list of things Ferrus knows jack shit about.

Sad but true.

And yeah, we acknowledged how helpful you lot were in ww2 with the ANZUS treaty, which meant you lot could build military bases here to watch the damn commies in the event of the domino theory ever playing out, and get all sorts of favourable export deals in the process. Don't pretend it was done out of the goodness of your heart.

Here's a study on Australia and its relation to fascism. (http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/1370/print) Not sure how accurate it is.

Here's a study on Australia and its relation to fascism. (http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/1370/print) Not sure how accurate it is.

Seems like it's more of a warning against potential fascism in Australia and a condemnation of fascism in America than a condemntation of fascism in Australia. I do not think even this ridiculous internet filter makes us fascist, just a slightly more authoritarian.

It is a real shame though that this new government has continued down the populist, mob rule road rather than doing the RIGHT thing... like repealing some of the silly parts of the anti-terror legislation or ceasing the incessant flag-waving advertising policies of the previous government.

Seems like it's more of a warning against potential fascism in Australia and a condemnation of fascism in America than a condemntation of fascism in Australia. I do not think even this ridiculous internet filter makes us fascist, just a slightly more authoritarian. That's why I said I wasn't sure how accurate it was.

It is a real shame though that this new government has continued down the populist, mob rule road rather than doing the RIGHT thing... like repealing some of the silly parts of the anti-terror legislation or ceasing the incessant flag-waving advertising policies of the previous government.I'll take your word for it.
A rare thing around here. :)

I think it only becomes fascist when you're thrown in to a concentration camp for complaining about the government.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1399635276



I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.

I prefer "global village idiot" as such regulation was dubbed ... when the Coalition started it with the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Online Services) Act 1999.

This is something our major parties both agree on. It's something that governments left and right do in every developed economy. And it's something that service providers have effectively been doing without any regulator requiring them to.

New options allow new crimes. Law tries to keep up ... and generally fails. Ultimately, I'm far more personally affected by the degraded performance of the internet through a half-arsed firewall, than I am by having illegal material denied to me. Frankly, I'm not too worried about the fascist possibility of stifling political dissent -- they'll have their hands full with copyright and kiddy porn.

They won't do it properly (remember the hit overseas traffic took when the Deakin Centre got its bumbling arse in the way?) and because they're government, they'll never admit degraded performance is their fault.

It is a real shame though that this new government has continued down the populist, mob rule road rather than doing the RIGHT thing... like repealing some of the silly parts of the anti-terror legislation or ceasing the incessant flag-waving advertising policies of the previous government.

Yeah, they were right to criticize government money being spent on government-promoting advertising, when the Coalition did it.

And they're wrong now to do it. Advertising is legalized lying, and the wrong way to present policy to the electorate ... quite apart from being implicitly partisan (which could be fixed by allowing Opposition to run counter-ads on an identical budget ... they'd cut it out in no time.)

What can I say? Vote Green, that's what I say.

Yeah, they were right to criticize government money being spent on government-promoting advertising, when the Coalition did it.

And they're wrong now to do it. Advertising is legalized lying, and the wrong way to present policy to the electorate ... quite apart from being implicitly partisan (which could be fixed by allowing Opposition to run counter-ads on an identical budget ... they'd cut it out in no time.)

What can I say? Vote Green, that's what I say.

That's what I do :)

That's what I do :)

Excellent. After we abolish the head of state position, we should abolish the stupid Lower House too. And the States. Stinking relic of feudalism.

Hang on ... we have to get power first. Bit tricky, that one.

Sorry to have to bring this into it, but our dysfunctional, gun-crazy, bible-thumping country saved your Australian asses from having to learn Japanese.

Please. Even assuming the Japanese hadn't made the foolish error of attacking the United States, they still would have been somewhat starved of oil and such for a long time, and were already overextended as it was trying to take China in addition to taking the East Indies, etc etc.

They'd have either had to quit altogether, or would have eventually been defeated by the Brits in some manner. (Or possibly attacked by the Soviet Union once Germany went down.)

Hang on... you are complaining about Australia enforcing its existing laws by blocking ILLEGAL material on the internet?

Wow, how fascist indeed.

Nothing is illegal unless you are caught. :)

Where's this 'democracy' of which you speak?

I heard that long long ago in a little place called Athens had a true democracy for a few minutes. But all the politicians made them give it up.

Of course we want to get rid of the fucking system! It's gone insane!

No offence @ chu, Laerod, I'm just pissed at this entire thing.

I am not exactly sure about your rules. Do you have popular recall? They used that on Gov. Davis in California and got the Governator elected. Otherwise you only have one thing you can do: Build support against the issue and wait for the next election. I know it is hard and I sympathize (I have been fighting against Bush the second since the 2000 primaries). All I can do is offer my hope for your success. Freedom is hard to get back once lost.

I think it only becomes fascist when you're thrown in to a concentration camp for complaining about the government.

From Merriam-Webster:
A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Thus the over simplification you believe is the definition is not, in fact, the total truth.

I'm not bothering to read through the rest of the thread (I stopped at page 9), but from the looks of it, this bill is expected to be knocked down in the senate. It seems as though Rudd is trying to win the Family First vote by seeming like he's "down with them", but he doesn't expect the bill to be passed. And hey, if it is passed, then it will be to him as WorkChoices was to Howard - his political suicide. I don't think we'll be hearing much of this.

Moreover, I HAVEN'T heard much of it. Neither have either of my parents, who are long time Labor supporters and who both try to keep very well informed on the political climate (and have done good jobs doing so so far).

But yes, "unrated" porn is illegal in Australia, and wholly unenforced. You can walk into any adult shop in the Perth metropolitan area and find large supplies of X-rated porn quite easily. But this is illegal, it's just that no one cares, at all. No cop is going to try and arrest a sex shop owner for selling X rated porn when there's speeding tickets to be given out.

I'm not bothering to read through the rest of the thread (I stopped at page 9), but from the looks of it, this bill is expected to be knocked down in the senate. It seems as though Rudd is trying to win the Family First vote by seeming like he's "down with them", but he doesn't expect the bill to be passed. And hey, if it is passed, then it will be to him as WorkChoices was to Howard - his political suicide. I don't think we'll be hearing much of this.

I agree. I have never vote Labor first. But if this passes I will start campaigning anit-labor. The stupidity of this suggestion is suprising from a civil right and ecenomic consequence view. And politically it is suicidie. Especially when also you consider how many adult like their porn.

I agree. I have never vote Labor first. But if this passes I will start campaigning anit-labor. The stupidity of this suggestion is suprising from a civil right and ecenomic consequence view. And politically it is suicidie. Especially when also you consider how many adult like their porn.

Which is why I don't think it will get passed, or that it was ever intended to get passed. But the fact that I've not heard anything about it on the News, or can find any legit news articles on it, suggests that what has been posted in this thread is probably just sensationalism.

I'mnot going to get carried away about a bit of internet censorship. Anyway, whoever said Australia WAS a western democracy. I've seen an Atlas - it's a southern democracy!

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1399635276



I'd like to offer a big around of applause to all you fuckers who voted for Labor. Congratulations! Thanks to your vote, Australia has now crossed the line between Western democracy and fascism. We are now, a fascist state.

What makes you think conservatives wouldn't do this, if they were in power? Those in power tend to act to increase it.

You had one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton_I) too LG.

No political power means he was just another crackpot. Its nothing unless he has support from someone who matters.

A little good news: Labor's been slaughtered in New South Wales by-elections.

Oh My Heavens! Well I Guess the UK will have to help you out. Problem is you elected them, so you'll need to send a delegation to the Queen and then we can help.

A little good news: Labor's been slaughtered in New South Wales by-elections.

Haha! I get this thread now! You're pissed off because Labor kicked your Liberal ass last year, so now you're trying to dig up any illegitimate piece of dirt you can find on them! That's what this whole thread is about!

Oh thank god. Now I can ignore this and get on to real political issues. None of this sensationalist fear mongering.

Haha! I get this thread now! You're pissed off because Labor kicked your Liberal ass last year, so now you're trying to dig up any illegitimate piece of dirt you can find on them! That's what this whole thread is about!

Oh thank god. Now I can ignore this and get on to real political issues. None of this sensationalist fear mongering.

No, that's the thing about FO, he just seems to hate everyone who's in power. I mean, the Libs were hardly friends of the youth either.

No, this thread was a sad way to bring a moderately important issue into the spotlight, and then use it for his ranting.

actually its our guns, in america, and the attitude that goes with them, that have cost us our freedom. some freedoms are self destructive of freedom. access to information though, isn't one of them. in america we make a big show of access to information, but the reality is we have a corporate controlled media that controls what people think they know and by which corporate economic intrests control government.

Elite theory is so massively simplistic that it hurts.

there is internet filtering and monitoring here too, mostly hidden and frequently denied.

Evidence on that one?

No, that's the thing about FO, he just seems to hate everyone who's in power. I mean, the Libs were hardly friends of the youth either.

No, this thread was a sad way to bring a moderately important issue into the spotlight, and then use it for his ranting.

As I remember, didn't the Libs spend some $30 million on an internet protection scheme that was defeated by some kid in 30 seconds? I can't remember the exact details, but I do remember a government internet "protection" thing that was beat by a kid in 30 seconds.

From Merriam-Webster:
A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Thus the over simplification you believe is the definition is not, in fact, the total truth.

Yeah, I know. The point is that fascism is an overused term apparently applied to any right-wing set of policies somebody doesn't like, when the reality is that fascism is a whole lot more than somebody winning an election.

As I remember, didn't the Libs spend some $30 million on an internet protection scheme that was defeated by some kid in 30 seconds? I can't remember the exact details, but I do remember a government internet "protection" thing that was beat by a kid in 30 seconds.

That was great :p

But the difference is, of course, that that was a voluntary filter offered by the government to concerned parents. This is a filter on ALL "illegal" material entering the net on the new broadband network offered by the government, and it can't be turned off.

This deserves its own good thread, but FO beat me by a few hours yesterday :(

That was great :p

But the difference is, of course, that that was a voluntary filter offered by the government to concerned parents. This is a filter on ALL "illegal" material entering the net on the new broadband network offered by the government, and it can't be turned off.

This deserves its own good thread, but FO beat me by a few hours yesterday :(

Well, just the fact that I've not heard much of anything about it, except from a highly biased source (FO), and the fact that it would be extreme idiocy for any government to try this (the people would just vote against that government heavily, as we saw with WorkChoices), leads me to believe that it is either highly sensationalised, or just plain bullshit.

Yeah, now I have more people to send hate mail too. :)

Who cares? At least they are doing SOMETHING about global warming.

Is this thread still going on? I thought it would have died a while ago.

So, the PM is a Ausnese? Or is it Chistralian?

:D

Well he is a Queenslander say no more :D

Apologies to all Queenslanders on here, I know theer're a lot of you on here.

Well, when can the PM be removed? I mean, how long til the next elections?

He just got elected, not till at least 2010 IIRC. Regardless the ALP are always given s second chance by the electorate. When the ALP lose an election its because they were deserved to have lost the election before, when the liberal party lose an election it is because they deserve to lose that election.

Then his govt. is doomed.

If only Nanatsu, but there are to many people who like to listen to the papers and while they have very little clue like to see the government doing something. Rudd, knows this and so does acts in order to seem to be doing something to address the problem even if it won't or brings about other benefits to the government (not Australia)then he will do it. As long as he wins the week in the paper then he is happy and wants to aim for that.

My issue is that it seems to be a big, expensive, waste of time which will hurt internet speeds, not stop kiddy porn, and could POTENTIALLY be used for evil. If it was going to stop the kiddie porn thing, I could live with it, or if it wasn't going to slow my down I would grumble but accept. However, it looks like it's not going to do either of these things. Which is what pisses me off.

As I say, he is just doing something to make it seem like he is doing something good, even though it won't work. The general populace don't know this but if the government says it will and the tabloids says this is the aim then they will believe it.

As for this internet network in Australia by the time it is fully implemented it will be out of date, why don't they upgrade over it now? Bring it into line with South Korea.

And the next election is in 2010. If the opposition can get it's act together then maybe, MAYBE, they'll retain a Senate majority (which is good), but quite frankly I'd still rather have mildly conservative Rudd than the ultra-conservative held Coalition. Like the Republicans in the US, they are dominated by an angry, vocal, socially conservative minority, and so lose more credibility with the populace than KRudd.

Well considering the fact that the opposition leader and many of his front bench are apart of the small 'l' liberal faction it wouldn't quite be the same as under Howard. But I must admit you do use the term ultra-conservative rather loosely.

That's what I do :)

Yeah but what really matters is who out of labor and liberal you number first, they get your vote. Unless you are in a very very tight seat where the green candidate the first or second favourite, or any other candidate. If not then all that matters is who of the two major parties you preference first.

I'm not bothering to read through the rest of the thread (I stopped at page 9), but from the looks of it, this bill is expected to be knocked down in the senate. It seems as though Rudd is trying to win the Family First vote by seeming like he's "down with them", but he doesn't expect the bill to be passed. And hey, if it is passed, then it will be to him as WorkChoices was to Howard - his political suicide. I don't think we'll be hearing much of this.

It won't be like Workchoices at all unless major sites are blocked. Besides the internet companies and the users don't have large unions that will spend millions upon millions of dollars on propaganda and half-truths for three years. as Savl said the internet isn't that important to people they don't care and the government can just say we want to stops pedos, and people will support that even though this isn't going to do it.

A little good news: Labor's been slaughtered in New South Wales by-elections.

Hardly surprising, considering the NSW government has been running the state into the ground for the past few years.

Yeah, wrap your head around that. By the same token, we have a full ratings system ranging from E (Everyone) to X18+ (Restricted for those 18 and older), but video games cannot receive over MA15+ (Restricted for those 15 and older), which means if a game warrants an R18+, it just gets banned outright. Fallout 3 got banned because you can use morphine. It's just entirely stupid.

Then the devs changed all the drug names worldwide and they can sell it here :rolleyes:

Also I apologise for the whole R rating thing on behalf of my entire state, it's not our fault our Attorney-General is a total douche-bag but I still feel responsible on some level.

It really isn't. The government is planning to enforce a filter on the entire country. It will block material considered illegal. Which would be fine, if our laws weren't incredibly draconian; porn will be completely blocked. Compounding that is the fact that we already have some of the worst broadband in the Western world, this will just make it ever slower.

The way things are going give it a few years and we'll be getting a 10MB quota for $1000 a month at dial-up speeds ;)

I get the feeling that too many factors will get in the way of this legislature. The people hate it, the opposition will side with the people, the ISPs dislike it, and in the long run, even the banks with disagree with it.

If the banks don't get incredibly annoyed I'll be surprised.

As for this internet network in Australia by the time it is fully implemented it will be out of date, why don't they upgrade over it now? Bring it into line with South Korea.

Because that's just how it works over here. The time it takes to research, approve, license and implement something has to be longer than the time it takes for everyone that cares to download it/import it/move to a different country that implemented it when it was new.

It won't be like Workchoices at all unless major sites are blocked. Besides the internet companies and the users don't have large unions that will spend millions upon millions of dollars on propaganda and half-truths for three years. as Savl said the internet isn't that important to people they don't care and the government can just say we want to stops pedos, and people will support that even though this isn't going to do it.

I don't know. A lot of people like their internet, and the Liberal party would certainly try and use it against the Labor government in the 2010 election. So, who knows where it could go.

As I remember, didn't the Libs spend some $30 million on an internet protection scheme that was defeated by some kid in 30 seconds? I can't remember the exact details, but I do remember a government internet "protection" thing that was beat by a kid in 30 seconds.

Well, he wasn't a kid, he was a teenager. That's a tad different.

Haha! I get this thread now! You're pissed off because Labor kicked your Liberal ass last year, so now you're trying to dig up any illegitimate piece of dirt you can find on them! That's what this whole thread is about!

Oh thank god. Now I can ignore this and get on to real political issues. None of this sensationalist fear mongering.

Yeah, because I hope Labor stays in power so they can pass this rubbish. :rolleyes:

I just want them out; if they lost to the CEC, that'd be a good day.

Because that's just how it works over here. The time it takes to research, approve, license and implement something has to be longer than the time it takes for everyone that cares to download it/import it/move to a different country that implemented it when it was new.

I know that is how the bureaucratic process works. Well I shouldn't say it is purely on a government sector thing, when I have been in industry the same thing happened and all the committees at work I saw it happen, do you have an idea how long it took for our department to get a bunting register in place? 6 months, 6 month in order for us to have a book where people can write in where they have placed bunting and why and for how long it is going to be there, and if there is a problem for the reason it has been put there who is responsible of fixing that problem. 6 months for a bloody book, glad I wasn't on that sub-committee.

But yeah I hate how it works over here. Which attoney general where you talking about? McCelland or Atkinson?

Nice to see you on here again Dryks, it's been awhile either that or I haven't noticed you :p

I don't know. A lot of people like their internet, and the Liberal party would certainly try and use it against the Labor government in the 2010 election. So, who knows where it could go.

Yeah that's true it depends how many sites they block, Rudd isn't an idiot politically he knows how to get people, I think the whole we are aiming to get the pedos crap will get the tabloids and from that the people on his side.

Well, he wasn't a kid, he was a teenager. That's a tad different.

I intended 'kid' in the sense that he wasn't an adult. It was meant more as a slang, such as the old guy shouting "hey you kids get off my lawn" when the 'kids' in question were actually teenagers. No difference. Just depends on the words you use.

Yeah, because I hope Labor stays in power so they can pass this rubbish. :rolleyes:

I just want them out; if they lost to the CEC, that'd be a good day.

You're just annoyed because your beloved Howard lost and Labor finally took power as they have so rightfully deserved and that the Liberals are lost and scattered and won't win anything federally for quite a while, so you're trying to dig up any old dirt you can on Labor. You've sensationalised the issue to the point where it is beyond recognition and you've made it mean what you want it to mean because it fits in with your agenda. If you hadn't proven yourself so hideously bias throughout this thread, I might have taken the claim somewhat legitimately, but because you have shown that you'll do anything to slander the party you don't like, I'm just taking it as a temper tantrum on your part, rather than a real issue.

If you can show me some legit news sources talking about the issue, or if you can find me something legitimate at all on the issue, beyond the one source you gave me, then I might reconsider. But for now, this entire thread has been a sensationalisation of an almost non-issue in order to attempt to turn people of Kevin Rudd and Labor to forward your own agenda.

I understand how that gun thing might have worked originally in America but it's a bit different now surely. Nukes are useless against your own country (I would have thought anyway), but the US government has quite a lot of power now.

It would be quite hard, in practice, for the American people to overthrow the present powerful federal and state governments by force, even with all those guns--at least unless the military rebelled too.

The population doesn't have an airforce, and even thosev anti-govt militias in the mountains probably don't have missiles! (Or maybe they do...). Plus the government could quite easily cut electricity or seize--say--gasoline, preventing motor transport in and food deliveries to rebellious areas. And a lot of the country's infrastructure would probably be destroyed.

And if the gunmen did win, they'd probably disagree about how to run things leading to instability or even anarchy.

I intended 'kid' in the sense that he wasn't an adult. It was meant more as a slang, such as the old guy shouting "hey you kids get off my lawn" when the 'kids' in question were actually teenagers. No difference. Just depends on the words you use.

You'd be naive to expect teenagers to not be able to get around filter. And you'd be naive to expect that they wouldn't look at porn. If my kids aren't looking at porn by the time they're sixteen, I'll be disappointed and concerned.

You're just annoyed because your beloved Howard lost and Labor finally took power as they have so rightfully deserved and that the Liberals are lost and scattered and won't win anything federally for quite a while, so you're trying to dig up any old dirt you can on Labor. You've sensationalised the issue to the point where it is beyond recognition and you've made it mean what you want it to mean because it fits in with your agenda. If you hadn't proven yourself so hideously bias throughout this thread, I might have taken the claim somewhat legitimately, but because you have shown that you'll do anything to slander the party you don't like, I'm just taking it as a temper tantrum on your part, rather than a real issue.

If you can show me some legit news sources talking about the issue, or if you can find me something legitimate at all on the issue, beyond the one source you gave me, then I might reconsider. But for now, this entire thread has been a sensationalisation of an almost non-issue in order to attempt to turn people of Kevin Rudd and Labor to forward your own agenda.

Uh-huh. Why don't you just take your fascist Labor shit to another thread, hmm?

I understand how that gun thing might have worked originally in America but it's a bit different now surely. Nukes are useless against your own country (I would have thought anyway), but the US government has quite a lot of power now.

It would be quite hard, in practice, for the American people to overthrow the present powerful federal and state governments by force, even with all those guns--at least unless the military rebelled too.

The population doesn't have an airforce, and even thosev anti-govt militias in the mountains probably don't have missiles! (Or maybe they do...). Plus the government could quite easily cut electricity or seize--say--gasoline, preventing motor transport in and food deliveries to rebellious areas. And a lot of the country's infrastructure would probably be destroyed.

And if the gunmen did win, they'd probably disagree about how to run things leading to instability or even anarchy.

This.

The most effective thing to keep the government in check is democracy. If you need guns to protect yourself from the government, or to keep the government in line, you do not live in a democracy.

You'd be naive to expect teenagers to not be able to get around filter. And you'd be naive to expect that they wouldn't look at porn. If my kids aren't looking at porn by the time they're sixteen, I'll be disappointed and concerned.

Well, yeah. There's nothing really being said here. Kids are good with computers and kids will look at porn. So what? The point was that your prescious Liberal government spend millions of dollars trying to do something that was ultimately proved useless in less than thirty seconds by a kid at his computer who then posted the tutorial on how to bypass it on the net for all to see. Tens of millions of dollars wasted due to the incompitance of the Liberal government. Yet you ignore this in favor of your largely unsubstantiated bullshit against the Labor party.

Uh-huh. Why don't you just take your fascist Labor shit to another thread, hmm?

You're calling Labor fascists? Haha. You're funny. And since you couldn't find any legitimate sources for your claims, I'm just assuming that you're wrong, and that Labor aren't the bad guys you're trying to paint them out to be, and that this whole thread has been nothing more than you crying because the Liberals rightfully lost by a landslide last year.

So, oncemore, provide some decent sources for your sensationalist claim of censorship by the Labor government, or you're indirectly admitting your point invalid.

Well, yeah. There's nothing really being said here. Kids are good with computers and kids will look at porn. So what? The point was that your prescious Liberal government spend millions of dollars trying to do something that was ultimately proved useless in less than thirty seconds by a kid at his computer who then posted the tutorial on how to bypass it on the net for all to see. Tens of millions of dollars wasted due to the incompitance of the Liberal government. Yet you ignore this in favor of your largely unsubstantiated bullshit against the Labor party..

So you're government's $128 million dollar useless system is so much better?

You're calling Labor fascists? Haha. You're funny. And since you couldn't find any legitimate sources for your claims, I'm just assuming that you're wrong, and that Labor aren't the bad guys you're trying to paint them out to be, and that this whole thread has been nothing more than you crying because the Liberals rightfully lost by a landslide last year.

So, oncemore, provide some decent sources for your sensationalist claim of censorship by the Labor government, or you're indirectly admitting your point invalid.

Just because it's not in the mainstream media, doesn't mean it's not happening. Or is the Holodomor a myth too?

I can't wait 'til we crush your Nazi party in 2015.

So, oncemore, provide some decent sources for your sensationalist claim of censorship by the Labor government, or you're indirectly admitting your point invalid.

Once again, I just want to reiterate, it irks me to no end that in some way I'm agreeing with the ridiculous sensationalism and desire for the return of the much benigned Howard era, advocated here by FeO. But in THIS (http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21192/53/) and THIS (http://www.crikey.com.au/Media-Arts-and-Sports/20081017-And-the-Wankley-Award-goes-to-Conroys-net-filtering-scheme.html), the issue is raised. Like you, I have yet to see this become a big deal in the MSM, so I can hope it's either rumour, bollocks, or going to be defeated by the Senate.

Actually, The Greens'll vote against it. So if this requires legislation, there is a good chance the Libs'll vote against it too, which means it'll get defeated. Wow, I kinda wished I'd rationally thought this through before.

Once again, I just want to reiterate, it irks me to no end that in some way I'm agreeing with the ridiculous sensationalism and desire for the return of the much benigned Howard era, advocated here by FeO.

I still haven't figured out what was wrong with the "Howard era". I felt a lot more free when the Coalition was in power.

I still haven't figured out what was wrong with the "Howard era". I felt a lot more free when the Coalition was in power.

What happened to the Glass House? Freedom, or censorship? It's pretty obvious there. And let's not even get started on all the freedoms worked hard for by unions and progressives over the last 50 years that were set back by WorkChoices.

So you're government's $128 million dollar useless system is so much better?

Nah. But I don't think it'll get through.

Just because it's not in the mainstream media, doesn't mean it's not happening. Or is the Holodomor a myth too?

I can't wait 'til we crush your Nazi party in 2015.

Proof that you've no idea what you're talking about. Your credibility has now hit zero.

Once again, I just want to reiterate, it irks me to no end that in some way I'm agreeing with the ridiculous sensationalism and desire for the return of the much benigned Howard era, advocated here by FeO. But in THIS (http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21192/53/) and THIS (http://www.crikey.com.au/Media-Arts-and-Sports/20081017-And-the-Wankley-Award-goes-to-Conroys-net-filtering-scheme.html), the issue is raised. Like you, I have yet to see this become a big deal in the MSM, so I can hope it's either rumour, bollocks, or going to be defeated by the Senate.

Actually, The Greens'll vote against it. So if this requires legislation, there is a good chance the Libs'll vote against it too, which means it'll get defeated. Wow, I kinda wished I'd rationally thought this through before.

I think the only people who will vote for it will be Family First and some of Labor. I don't think all of Labor will even vote for it. Again, I think this is just a plan of Rudd's to try and get Family First supporting him in the senate so he can pass more important things without the need to pander to independents in the senate. Just my thoughts of course. But I really doubt it'll get passed. And I really doubt it's anywhere near as bad as FO is trying to make it seem. As FO clearly has an agenda, I don't think much of what he says can be taken too seriously. And the lack of it appearing in mainstream media isn't what makes me think it isn't happening, but the fact that when I googled it, all I got were a few blogs. So, if someone can show me a few credible news sources talking about it, I'll consider it. But until then, I'm assuming FO is just sensationalising something which is really just targetting kiddie porn (something FO is fond of, perhaps?).

What happened to the Glass House? Freedom, or censorship? It's pretty obvious there. And let's not even get started on all the freedoms worked hard for by unions and progressives over the last 50 years that were set back by WorkChoices.

The Glass House? Are you serious? If you spend all your time going "The government is shit, the government is shit, the government is shit" when you're on a government-owned channel, you deserve what you get. They're free to continue on another channel.

WorkChoices wasn't close to as big a deal as everybody made it out to be. And what Labor's doing now is far worse.

But until then, I'm assuming FO is just sensationalising something which is really just targetting kiddie porn (something FO is fond of, perhaps?).

Fuck you, asshole. What the fuck is wrong with you?

I still haven't figured out what was wrong with the "Howard era". I felt a lot more free when the Coalition was in power.

Oh yeah, they were a picture of happiness. Nothing wrong with banning the Glass House, with scaremongering, hyperbole, and erosion of civil liberties in regards to the terrorism threat. Nothing wrong with the loss of workplace rights, with inaction on climate change, with pandering to racist fears, with involving endorsing Hanson, with deregulation of the financial markets, with entering a useless war...

Get the picture? Not that I'm saying I havn't been disappointed with Rudd, his ridiculous populism and knee-jerk reactions to things like the Henson outrage or the alcopops thing. But in comparison to the socially conservative, backward Howard era, it's a breath of fresh air.

*Is still a Greens supporter*

Alright, you know what, fuck it. Let's not even fight this. Let's not fight for anything any more. Because everybody knows, Rudd and Labor know best.

I'm moving to goddamn New Zealand.

The Glass House? Are you serious? If you spend all your time going "The government is shit, the government is shit, the government is shit" when you're on a government-owned channel, you deserve what you get. They're free to continue on another channel.

So, all political satire should be shut down by the government? Gotcha! ;)

WorkChoices wasn't close to as big a deal as everybody made it out to be. And what Labor's doing now is far worse.

Just like this isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be! At least this still allows people to earn a decent pay for working decent hours and not undo on a century of workers rights. This just means a few pedophiles out there won't be able to access kiddy porn. I don't see how making people work for almost slave wages in unfair working conditions isn't as bad as cutting off a bit of access to kiddy porn.

Fuck you, asshole. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Well, it is a bill whose primary function is to target child pornography, and you getting so riled up over it either means you're sensationalising it, or you're pro-child pornography in some way. While yes, you can use the "slippery-slope" argument, but that rarely holds any water anymore. I'm not directly accusing you of liking kiddie porn, I'm just saying that the only people who would be as strongly and vocally against a bill like this are either people who like kiddie porn, Liberals trying to push their agenda by sensationalising a fairly reasonable bill because they are still crying that John Howard lost last year by a RuddslideTM. So, which are you?

Alright, you know what, fuck it. Let's not even fight this. Let's not fight for anything any more. Because everybody knows, Rudd and Labor know best.

I'm moving to goddamn New Zealand.

Have fun! :salute:

Just like this isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be! At least this still allows people to earn a decent pay for working decent hours and not undo on a century of workers rights. This just means a few pedophiles out there won't be able to access kiddy porn. I don't see how making people work for almost slave wages in unfair working conditions isn't as bad as cutting off a bit of access to kiddy porn.

Well, it is a bill whose primary function is to target child pornography, and you getting so riled up over it either means you're sensationalising it, or you're pro-child pornography in some way. While yes, you can use the "slippery-slope" argument, but that rarely holds any water anymore. I'm not directly accusing you of liking kiddie porn, I'm just saying that the only people who would be as strongly and vocally against a bill like this are either people who like kiddie porn, Liberals trying to push their agenda by sensationalising a fairly reasonable bill because they are still crying that John Howard lost last year by a RuddslideTM. So, which are you?

How the fuck is this a reasonable bill? It will block REGULAR PORN, it will block any material that the govt. decides is inappropriate (such as, oh, I dunno, liberal.org.au?), and it will reduce our Internet speeds to dial-up level. And what makes it worse is that it's all easy to get around, so the govt. is spending $128m to make our Internet fucking slow. That's all they're paying for. How is any of that reasonable, you PSYCHOPATH?

How the fuck is this a reasonable bill? It will block REGULAR PORN, it will block any material that the govt. decides is inappropriate (such as, oh, I dunno, liberal.org.au?), and it will reduce our Internet speeds to dial-up level. And what makes it worse is that it's all easy to get around, so the govt. is spending $128m to make our Internet fucking slow. That's all they're paying for. How is any of that reasonable, you PSYCHOPATH?Calm down. The bill isn't likely to pass from what I've read, and bills like this do come by from time to time. It's not like it doesn't happen in other countries. Bills regulating the Internet that passed in the United States were shot down by the Supreme Court, both times.

Just like this isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be! At least this still allows people to earn a decent pay for working decent hours and not undo on a century of workers rights.
Don't even start on that crap. The only bigger lie in Australian politics than the anti-"Work Choices" campaign was Howard's claim that he keeps interest rates low.

Fact of the matter is that the whole issue is dominated not by actual workers with actual problems, but with unions who are fearful of losing influence.

I think the only people who will vote for it will be Family First and some of Labor. I don't think all of Labor will even vote for it. Again, I think this is just a plan of Rudd's to try and get Family First supporting him in the senate so he can pass more important things without the need to pander to independents in the senate.

No all of Labor will vote for it, they may disagree in the party room but once in the house they will vote for it, they are required to by the rules of the party.

Oh yeah, they were a picture of happiness. Nothing wrong with banning the Glass House, with scaremongering, hyperbole, and erosion of civil liberties in regards to the terrorism threat. Nothing wrong with the loss of workplace rights, with inaction on climate change, with pandering to racist fears, with involving endorsing Hanson, with deregulation of the financial markets, with entering a useless war...

Get the picture? Not that I'm saying I havn't been disappointed with Rudd, his ridiculous populism and knee-jerk reactions to things like the Henson outrage or the alcopops thing. But in comparison to the socially conservative, backward Howard era, it's a breath of fresh air.

*Is still a Greens supporter*

First bolded, do you mean not signing a piece of paper? Despite other legislative action that has seen action on climate change and regardless of signing a piece of paper would still meet the targets of said paper.
Second bolded, yeah that's not freedom. And actually there was nothing wrong with banning the glass house it was a pretty shitty show.

But until then, I'm assuming FO is just sensationalising something which is really just targetting kiddie porn (something FO is fond of, perhaps?).

Fuck you, asshole. What the fuck is wrong with you?

In before moderator action.

But this isn't just about kiddie porn as it targets other websites as well not even related to porn.

Don't even start on that crap. The only bigger lie in Australian politics than the anti-"Work Choices" campaign was Howard's claim that he keeps interest rates low.

Fact of the matter is that the whole issue is dominated not by actual workers with actual problems, but with unions who are fearful of losing influence.

^ This.

Thanks Leon I was about to type this up but you beat me to it.

In before moderator action.

But this isn't just about kiddie porn as it targets other websites as well not even related to porn.

I don't care if it is flaming, who the hell accuses someone else of being a pedophile? It's not just an insult, it's a horrible, horrible thing to say about someone else.

I don't care if it is flaming, who the hell accuses someone else of being a pedophile? It's not just an insult, it's a horrible, horrible thing to say about someone else.

Yes I know it is, don't let it get to you be the bigger man if he has to start using insults to prove a point then maybe his argument isn't very good.

I quoted both because of a Mod sees it I suspect you will both get a warning.

How the fuck is this a reasonable bill? It will block REGULAR PORN, it will block any material that the govt. decides is inappropriate (such as, oh, I dunno, liberal.org.au?), and it will reduce our Internet speeds to dial-up level. And what makes it worse is that it's all easy to get around, so the govt. is spending $128m to make our Internet fucking slow. That's all they're paying for. How is any of that reasonable, you PSYCHOPATH?

It won't block R-rated porn, only X-rated porn, which, in Australia, IS illegal. Didn't you know that? There is a federal law governing that all states must have x-rated porn illegal. Which is why Canberra is the porn capitol of Australia, because it's a territory. So, it doesn't block out regular porn, just illegal porn. Since x-rated porn is illegal, and the bill only acts to block access to that which is illegal, it doesn't seem that unreasonable.

However, slowing our internet down to dial-up speeds IS unreasonable, though, thanks to Telstra, the majority of us won't notice the difference anyway.

As has been said, Rudd isn't stupid. A LOT of his victory last year is due to the internet. A lot of his supporters used the internet to get the message across. They were internet savvy supporters. Do you think they will support this bill? Do you think they will continue to support Rudd, should this bill be passed? No. If this bill is as legit as you claim it, then Rudd is committing political suicide by alienating a large portion of his support, and guaranteeing that he will have a very hard time winning in 2010. Which is why I suspect that the issue is ether a ploy to get the Family First party on his side while not anticipating the bll gets passed, or that you are highly sensationalising it.

Also, I didn't say you were a pedophile. I said, given your reactions, you EITHER supported kiddie porn in some way, OR you were sensationalising the issue to forward your agenda. I do not believe you support kiddie porn, thus, I believe you are sensationalising the issue.

Well, you've sort of hit the nail on the head. X-rated porn SHOULDN'T be illegal, and until this piece of shit bill appeared, the law was totally unenforced. As far as being completely unfair, it's about on the same level as video games not being able to get the R rating.

I'm an anarchist who understands that the state (as long as it exists) will have a role in censorship.
Here are some things I would welcome censored:
1. Spam and phishing
2. Snuff movies including Al Queda's head loppings
3. Kiddie porn because it involves exploitation
4. Highly confidential information (people's bank account details, health records etc)
5. Libellous material e.g. "Joe Blogs is a pedophile" when he is not
6. Sexual assaults like the movies posted on You Tube showing schoolboys having sex with, urinating and burning the hair of a teenage girl.

That's a bit of a list to be going on with.
I don't believe that political views should be censored - not even Nazi ones e.g. Holocaust denial shit. It's better to fight these.

Rudd wants to turn the country into a filthy commie dictatorship like his beloved China...

And he comes from Brisbane!

Just playing with you Assington!

It's a shameful truth. Queensland has produced a handful of unsavoury Labor politicians. There's something wrong with our state...

Well, you've sort of hit the nail on the head. X-rated porn SHOULDN'T be illegal, and until this piece of shit bill appeared, the law was totally unenforced. As far as being completely unfair, it's about on the same level as video games not being able to get the R rating.

On that, I completely agree. X-rated porn should be fully legal. However, it's only a matter of time. Since the laws regarding it are unenforced, it will only be a matter of time before someone just says "to hell with it, let's make it legal already". However, again, this bill is unlikely to be passed anyway.

On that, I completely agree. X-rated porn should be fully legal. However, it's only a matter of time. Since the laws regarding it are unenforced, it will only be a matter of time before someone just says "to hell with it, let's make it legal already". However, again, this bill is unlikely to be passed anyway.

It's not a popular law to pass though. However much someone believes in civil liberties, if the civil liberties lead to the legalisation of porn, then they will be hunted down by the self-appointed morality police of the right-wing media.

The obvious way to get around the issue is by never enacting the dumb laws in the first place, but once you've got them, it looks bad from a "popular" viewpoint to repeal them. I don't necessarily think that most people would oppose legalising it, but I do think it's the kind of thing that modern, image obsessed politicians would feel would harm their reputations.

What I worry about is agents provocateurs using existing laws to damage people.
Imagine someone emailing you something called "sexy schoolgirls" and you are silly enough to open it - especially at work. They could charge you with downloading kiddie porn - and sack you.
A friend told me of an company emailing its staff with a company seminar (that had very little to do with the work that the company was involved in. It went out to all employees inviting them to go to this room to apply in person. When they got there they were handed retrenchment notices. The Human Relations guys had figured that antone wanting to go on a non-work related seminar probably wasn't a very motivated and dedicated employee.

Bible thumping isn't as prevalent as you might think, most of us just ignore it since we don't have to listen to it. "Gun-crazy" you might call us, but firearms are important to our people retaining our liberty against the government, and even then a good deal of my fellow citizens would shriek and call the cops on a fellow citizen if they actually practiced their right to bear arms in public.

Mind you, democracy isn't all that great, simply letting something come about because the majority wants it, though I'm not arguing for minority rule either as it is just as bad. But in the case of your country (I did like Aus a great deal when I was there) becoming a fascist state, it did so to means: 1. the vote and 2. the belief that government should run your economy. Here you are worked up over internet filtering and the filtering it proposes here in the states is solved via the semi free market for child safety though I am unsure of the latter.

Anyways, I agree that to force the entire population to take filtered content from their internet is a clear violation of your rights and just because you are worked up on the issue isn't an indication of anything bad, but the way you've presented it makes me wonder why you care about it as much as you do.

You shouldn't have let them take your guns, now what are you going to do about this?
There is only one choice for you Ferrous Oxide, relocate to Utah, before they filter travel, too.

The state of mormon doesn't filter internet?

"Gun-crazy" you might call us, but firearms are important to our people retaining our liberty against the government,
Patent falsehood. Those who fight tooth and nail for the rights to arm themselves however they want support the political party that does whatever they can to restrict our Constitutional rights. But you don't give a shit because you can have guns.

Anyways, I agree that to force the entire population to take filtered content from their internet is a clear violation of your rights and just because you are worked up on the issue isn't an indication of anything bad, but the way you've presented it makes me wonder why you care about it as much as you do.

Because I LIKE PORNOGRAPHY. Not child porn, that's abhorrent, but REGULAR, ADULT PORN.

Because I LIKE PORNOGRAPHY. Not child porn, that's abhorrent, but REGULAR, ADULT PORN.
Gun nuts don't understand slippery slopes unless they involve guns. Actually, they don't understand any other rights that don't involve guns.

That too. The fact that there's a blacklist is terrifying; how long until www.liberal.org.au (the site of opposition party) is on that list?

That too. The fact that there's a blacklist is terrifying; how long until www.liberal.org.au (the site of opposition party) is on that list?Has the bill passed?

That too. The fact that there's a blacklist is terrifying; how long until www.liberal.org.au (the site of opposition party) is on that list?

it already is.

That too. The fact that there's a blacklist is terrifying; how long until www.liberal.org.au (the site of opposition party) is on that list?

I'm not sure if the Liberal party is illegal, though it should be, so I don't think it will end up on the list. The bill is in place to block access to illegal material. Political parties are not illegal. Though I argue that some should be, and can back that up with some reasoning, I won't discuss it in this thread at the risk of a thread jack.

There will be no blocking of political party websites under this bill. It acts to block that which is illegal. Yes, you like x-rated internet porn. But it is still illegal. It shouldn't be, bit it is.

I'm not sure if the Liberal party is illegal, though it should be, so I don't think it will end up on the list. The bill is in place to block access to illegal material. Political parties are not illegal. Though I argue that some should be, and can back that up with some reasoning, I won't discuss it in this thread at the risk of a thread jack.

There will be no blocking of political party websites under this bill. It acts to block that which is illegal. Yes, you like x-rated internet porn. But it is still illegal. It shouldn't be, bit it is.

Umm, but they just need to make a website illegal to view, the bill isn't going to say all websites currently illegal will be the only ones that will be banned forever, if they make another one illegal after this bill is passed then that too will be placed on the list.

Because I LIKE PORNOGRAPHY. Not child porn, that's abhorrent, but REGULAR, ADULT PORN.

See, that's why it's easier to make standard porn, made with and for consenting adults, legal than to throw out the attempts at internet censorship entirely. Because the people in favour of it will just scream "KIDDIE PORN" and scare people into supporting them. Small steps.
Umm, but they just need to make a website illegal to view, the bill isn't going to say all websites currently illegal will be the only ones that will be banned forever, if they make another one illegal after this bill is passed then that too will be placed on the list.
And they'll have to pass another bill to do that. And the Liberal party will be well aware of this, and will scream bloody murder to the press. The government would lose all support if they even tried.

Umm, but they just need to make a website illegal to view, the bill isn't going to say all websites currently illegal will be the only ones that will be banned forever, if they make another one illegal after this bill is passed then that too will be placed on the list.

It doesn't make websites illegal, it makes blocks viewing of illegal content. X-rated porn is illegal, internet or magazine. They aren't passing bills to make websites illegal, only trying to block websites with content already defined as illegal.

It's protecting Australian industry. The good, wholesome Aussie pornshop shouldn't have to compete with free porn from Russia. Them damn cyber-sleaze merchants, taking jobs off Aussie sleaze merchants with the good stuff and a cosh under the counter ...

Oh, and Ferrous Oxide: care to link to Liberal Party policy on this? Seems to me they haven't taken a position yet. You could look pretty damn silly (ie, as damn silly as you look now, but in a nice frock) if they vote to pass this "fascist" bill.

The first line on their "Our Beliefs" page states:

We believe in the inalienable rights and freedoms of all peoples; and we work towards a lean government that minimises interference in our daily lives; and maximises individual and private sector initiative.

It's protecting Australian industry. The good, wholesome Aussie pornshop shouldn't have to compete with free porn from Russia. Them damn cyber-sleaze merchants, taking jobs off Aussie sleaze merchants with the good stuff and a cosh under the counter ...

Oh, and Ferrous Oxide: care to link to Liberal Party policy on this? Seems to me they haven't taken a position yet. You could look pretty damn silly (ie, as damn silly as you look now, but in a nice frock) if they vote to pass this "fascist" bill.

You sir have won the thread.

You sir have won the thread.

Don't speak too soon. Malcolm Turnbull might post.

The first line on their "Our Beliefs" page states:

Yeah, I wred the entire site. There isn't any policy statement there on that bill.

Try harder.

There doesn't need to be. If they support this bill, they're liars.

There doesn't need to be. If they support this bill, they're liars.

I ask you to take a walk back in time. To 2005, when the Coalition Government started on the slide which ended in their humiliating defeat of 2007.

The Beazley Labor Opposition. Presented with two Howard Coalition Government initiatives, Work Choices and the Anti-Terrorism Act, at almost the same time.

The Opposition opposed Work Choices and supported the Anti-Terrorism Act, with amendments. Even those amendments they would not have dared, without the support of the marginal parties of the Senate.

EDIT OUT: Lots o' rant.

EDIT IN: Just so now. The Coalition constituency is neither pro-civil-liberties nor scare-mongering. Our major, two-party issues have tragically become quite like the US: morality (which government has no place in) and economic (which neither of our parties has the guts to change, but will talk big about anyway.)

So, this won't be a big issue for the Coalition. They'll pass it with minimal fuss ... which might in the end suit you. The less fuss, the less spending, and the less actual internet filtering will happen.

*snip*

I must disagree with bits of what you said. Malcolm Turnbull is, in my opinion, one of the most left members of the opposition party*. He will not be anywhere near as bad as Howard (he did, after all, advise Howard to ratify Kyoto). It is even arguable that he is more left than Paul Keating, though I myself dispute that.

I think, of all the members of the opposition party I'd like to see replace Rudd, Turnbull is probably at the top of that list. But then, I'd like to see a Labor reign similiar to that of the Hawke/Keating era.

Also, I don't like Rudd much either. I would have much prefered Beazley as Labor leader, but he was too good for Australia. We as a self-destructing nation can't bring ourselves to elect the person we know will be the very best for us. How do you think Howard managed to reign for so long? Rudd is good, better than howard, but not as good as Beazley.


*I just love calling them that