NationStates Jolt Archive

Sorry if there's a thread on this.

The UK has just rejected (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk_politics/7668655.stm) the government plan to allow police to detain suspects without charge for 42 days. The House of Lords voted against the measure by a huge majority (191 votes).

Any thoughts on this?

Obviously they saw what happened 28 Days Later so they're not going to stand for 42.

-----

Now seriously, this is a promising sign that common sense and civil liberties are still alive albeit in critical condition.

its just a delay the house of commons will pass this.

42 days does seem rather extreme. Even the 28 days is too long. Such a law could be abused, 7 ways to Sunday.

I don't think the Commons will push this. This is a legacy of the Blair/Bush fearmongering agenda..... denial of due process. Thank the Lords!

its just a delay the house of commons will pass this.

If the system goes the way I think it does, the House of Commons has already passed this bill, where it then goes to the House of Lords, who then rejected it. (Good IMO, leave it at 28.)

Another good example, the ban on using hounds in fox hunting. How many times this that go through the Commons before the Lords passed it? Alot.

42 days does seem rather extreme. Even the 28 days is too long. Such a law could be abused, 7 ways to Sunday.

Guantanamo.

The Commons has to pass it again before they can send it back to the Lords.

I say kudos twice to the Lords. Proving they aren't a relic of the past but a viable part of a modern government, and killing a knee-jerk crapper of a bill.

Guantanamo.

Make that 8 ways.

It is sometimes a scary demonstration of the state of civil liberties in this country that it's the unelected Lords which seem to be our greatest defence.

The government won't push this through, they've said that. They're redrafting the bill without the 42-days and they're going to try and pass the 42-days separately. Frankly they got it through the first time by a tiny margin with a lot of deal making, they probably fear they won't be able to do it a second time around.

Thank Christ that we have a bunch of unelected but wise people to keep the politicians in check.

Nicely done, old boys. Jolly good show.

If the government was sensible, they'd stop pushing this now. However, they aren't, so expect to see the measure included in some other bill soon.

It's rather pleasing to see the government put down so sharply. I sometimes have mixed feelings about the existence of the Lords, but times like this justify it with common sense regarding civil liberties.

I'm not sure why the government bothered, they must have known it would fail, and this just puts them in a worse light.

I'm not sure why the government bothered
I am. Thick, poor, tabloid reading people like THE RULE OF AND BY LAW. Labour needs these people on-side for the next election, because LMC people who are guilty about being rich are probably just not going to vote at all next time.

I am. Thick, poor, tabloid reading people like THE RULE OF AND BY LAW. Labour needs these people on-side for the next election, because LMC people who are guilty about being rich are probably just not going to vote at all next time.

Perhaps, but it does seem odd to go so strongly for something that may be positive for one group but is totally negative for another. But why would a whole group of people not vote? because Labour is terrible and Cameron is barely any better? We should just all vote Lib Dems, it'll be amusing if they win :)

Perhaps, but it does seem odd to go so strongly for something that may be positive for one group but is totally negative for another. But why would a whole group of people not vote? because Labour is terrible and Cameron is barely any better? We should just all vote Lib Dems, it'll be amusing if they win :)
Cameron isn't "barely any better" than Labour, he's so much worse. "I am a Thatcherite" = "oh shit" alarms going off right here.

As to the Lib Dems - haha no.

Sorry if there's a thread on this.

The UK has just rejected (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk_politics/7668655.stm) the government plan to allow police to detain suspects without charge for 42 days. The House of Lords voted against the measure by a huge majority (191 votes).

Any thoughts on this?

I think the house of Lords was given an opportunity to justify its existence, and took it.
That legislation should never even have been considered, let alone passed the Commons.

Cameron isn't "barely any better" than Labour, he's so much worse. "I am a Thatcherite" = "oh shit" alarms going off right here.

As to the Lib Dems - haha no.

Not that I was really showing my own opinion of Cameron, but that it might be more of an opinion of the public currently. I think there's a real dearth of decent political leaders and clear policies at the moment, so I do understand the mentality that would stop people from voting.

Cameron isn't "barely any better" than Labour, he's so much worse. "I am a Thatcherite" = "oh shit" alarms going off right here.

As to the Lib Dems - haha no.

Go on, what's the worst that can hapen

I don't think the Commons will push this. This is a legacy of the Blair/Bush fearmongering agenda..... denial of due process. Thank the Lords!
Hear-Hear;It's time we came to our senses and got out of this climate of fear and mistrust.Good on the The Lords for booting the bill into touch.

As to the Lib Dems - haha no.

I joined the Lib Dems, not willingly, I was kind of forced into it. I'm so depressed, they're just so... useless. :(

its just a delay the house of commons will pass this.

Which proves that you're not following the situation particularly closely.

The government could use the Parliament Act (whereby the democratically-elected Commons can impose its will on the now largely appointed Lords) to force the bill through, but it's been decided that this would be too time-consuming and controversial, and would distract from the government's successes (here I'm citing the government's own self-perception rather than my own opinion) in dealing with the financial crisis.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has announced that the 42 day measure will now be removed from the counter-terrorism bill, and placed into a separate piece of legislation that's to be 'indefinitely shelved', but which can be brought before parliament 'when needed'.

So, the Lords have won, and the measure is to be removed from the Bill.

The shelving of the second bill is subject to multiple interpretations, but largely looks like a face-saving measure at present.

Not that I was really showing my own opinion of Cameron, but that it might be more of an opinion of the public currently. I think there's a real dearth of decent political leaders and clear policies at the moment, so I do understand the mentality that would stop people from voting.Welcome to my country! :D

Thank Christ that we have a bunch of unelected but wise people to keep the politicians in check.
Embodied, I feel, by the Lords Falconer and Mandelson.:p

I joined the Lib Dems, not willingly, I was kind of forced into it. I'm so depressed, they're just so... useless. :(
Well at least you realise they're a bunch of wasters.

Which proves that you're not following the situation particularly closely.

The government could use the Parliament Act (whereby the democratically-elected Commons can impose its will on the now largely appointed Lords) to force the bill through, but it's been decided that this would be too time-consuming and controversial, and would distract from the government's successes (here I'm citing the government's own self-perception rather than my own opinion) in dealing with the financial crisis.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has announced that the 42 day measure will now be removed from the counter-terrorism bill, and placed into a separate piece of legislation that's to be 'indefinitely shelved', but which can be brought before parliament 'when needed'.

So, the Lords have won, and the measure is to be removed from the Bill.

The shelving of the second bill is subject to multiple interpretations, but largely looks like a face-saving measure at present.

Time consuming is the important point. IIRC, it takes a year for the government to force something through under the Parliament Act, and this government won't still be here in a year.

Thank Christ that we have a bunch of unelected but wise people to keep the politicians in check.

Ahh yes...I remember all that when N00b labour first got in.....

'We'll get rid of these unelected over privileged gits'............ Yayyyyyy

'We'll replace them with unelected cron...people'..........yay?

I joined the Lib Dems, not willingly, I was kind of forced into it. (

If you get offered a free drink in the tavern again, only take a clear glass.