NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't mean to romanticize the event, but to evoke the premise of making some sort of doomed stand against crushing odds, so please take this to refer to the idealized, almost mythological story of the Alamo, of few standing against many, knowingly going to their death for some cause.

To make it more interesting, I posit three elements to parallel the Alamo:

What is your "Texas", the purpose or cause for which you would make your last, fatal stand...what has so much meaning to you, you would give up your life to give it the slightest chance of a victory you will never live to see?

What is your "Alamo", the particular "fort", be it a subset of your cause, a particular institution, a group, or a leader with whom you would make your stand?

What is your "musket", the method or tool that you would use to make your stand? What mechanism or means will actuate your defense? (Assume for the excercise that even if your method is non-violent, the penalty could somehow conceivably be "death").

Also, be advised that I sent Lunatic Goofballs this excercise, and he explained that his "Texas" was independence for the state of Texas, his "Alamo" was the Alamo in San Antonio, and his "musket" was a .58 calibre smootbore flintlock musket. Please contribute bail money.

My alamo?

Making people realize that Jehovah is a murderous psychopath who should be placed on the same antipedestal as Hitler, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and Osama.

My alamo?

Making people realize that Jehovah is a murderous psychopath who should be placed on the same antipedestal as Hitler, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and Osama.

Antipedestal? Is that like a three foot cylindrical hole in the ground with white marble lining, or is it a pedestal made out of antimatter so it annhilates with whoever you put on it?

So, making people "realize" something....what's the "musket" for that? Writing books, blogging, street speaking, letters to the editor, seminars?

Bodypainting?

There are so many historical ones:
Barcelona 1936 when the workers rose against Franco
The Warsaw Ghetto
in my country, it was the Eureka Stockade when miners rejected taxation without representation.
What it wouldn't be, would be the Alamo itself. Think about it....it was another example of manifest destiny. Yes the Texans in the Alamo were brave but they were dying for nationalism. That's not the cause for me. It has to be a bigger cause than that.
I would give up my life for many causes if I had to - and for my friends and family. But too many poor saps have died for their country.

My alamo?

Making people realize that Jehovah is a murderous psychopath who should be placed on the same antipedestal as Hitler, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and Osama.

Heh. There's been so much US election-related ranting on the interwebz lately that I actually read 'Osama' as 'Obama'.

I'd rather retreat and fight another day; as far as the phony circumstance of the only other options being either certain and total defeat of your side if you run vs. needing to knowingly sacrifice yourself to save that side as a last hope -- that's highly unrealistic. If we humor that fantasy nobody is going to say they would run away and let their side lose.

As far as the Alamo, it's heroic symbolism now, but there was nothing logical about it. If the Texans had gotten the hell out of there, Austin would have defeated the Mexican army later anyways. Not to diminish the symbolic heroism of it, but just stating a likely fact with the luxury of modern retrospect.

What I find interesting here is that "Alamo" sounds much like a combination of "Allah" and "Mohammed". The thread is also talking about fighting to the death for a cause. Jihadist propaganda? Draw your own conclusions.

Also, be advised that I sent Lunatic Goofballs this excercise, and he explained that his "Texas" was independence for the state of Texas, his "Alamo" was the Alamo in San Antonio, and his "musket" was a .58 calibre smootbore flintlock musket. Please contribute bail money.

It was only a fleshwound! :(

and Osama.

What's Barrack done to you?

My Texas is the destruction of the undead horde.

My Alamo is wherever the swarms manage to pin me down.

My musket is whatever I can have on hand.

Global warming.

I'm not sure I have a Texas, I'm infinitely corruptible.

Global warming.

Why?

Why?

We lost. Waited too long. Hurricane Ike killed people in 10 states from Texas to Pennsylvania. It trapped Girl Scouts in Illinois when a bridge washed out. We have to worry about hurricanes in Illifuckinois now?

Not quite Alimoish though. The people that attacked the Alamo were the real deal. Global warming solutions were defeated by lies and bullshit. 16 million dollars alone spent by Exxon/Mobil to shovel the bullshit around. (just like the tobacco companies did)

We lost. Waited too long. Hurricane Ike killed people in 10 states from Texas to Pennsylvania. It trapped Girl Scouts in Illinois when a bridge washed out. We have to worry about hurricanes in Illifuckinois now?

Not quite Alimoish though. The people that attacked the Alamo were the real deal. Global warming was defeated by lies and bullshit. 16 million dollars alone spent by Exxon/Mobil to shovel the bullshit around. (just like the tobacco companies did)

Is there any evidence that that was our fault?

This issue came up last week, to summarize the events of that night:

My Alamo was the last bottle of Vodka.
My Texas was the cause of not giving away all my booze to a bunch of damned home-invading ingrates.
My Musket was an empty bottle which I'd broken and used to threaten everyone away.

Is there any evidence that that was our fault?

That AGW is real? That it is man's fault? It can't be the solar cycle. The world temp went up in 1998 and just stayed there. SPLAT!!! The solar cycle is 11 years. (a new one just started) The last one went through it's early, peak and final stages. We should have had at least one cool year since 1998. You can't blame the Milankovitch cycles. Precession has been in a glacial stage for 1000s of years and will be there for 1000s of years to come.

And before anyone starts attacking Al Gore, the greenhouse effect was first concidered over 180 years ago by that French dude.

And for historical sake, I hope everyone here is aware that everyone who made their stand at the Alamo died.

:D

Adunbar, being a climate change skeptic is so 90's!

Just because you're catching cold in damp old England.... we're roasting here in Australia. Melbourne is meant to be mild but it was 30 degrees celsius today! We've had the 8 hottest recorded temperatures on this planet in the last decade. Australia's beautiful Coral Reef is bleaching, our longest river system - the Murray Darling is almost dry and we are meant to be in the middle of La Nina. I wonder what it's going to be like when El Nino hits us?
Yes it's remotely possible this global warming is earth-made rather than man-made. It's also remotely possible that next year, twemperatures around the world will drop.
However, I'm sure that you'll agree - it ain't gonna happen.
My "musket" is a loud voice and the ability to call the truth as I see it. My vision of paradise is seeing the nations of the world co-operate to do something positive together - as they are demonstrating right now with saving the financial system.

My Alamo is my money
My Texas is 50,000 commitments
My musket is my ability to piss it all away till I eventually have to deal with the consequences later

Making people realize that Jehovah is a murderous psychopath who should be placed on the same antipedestal as Hitler, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and Osama.

some people cure cancer others work to put food on the table...

SNIP

so I take it thats the last wedding you will be invited to?

And for historical sake, I hope everyone here is aware that everyone who made their stand at the Alamo died

I should hope so what with it being nearly 200 years ago :p

SNIP

SNIP

gosh its easy to twist your knickers...Iraq actually had WMD and the world is a cozy warm place with society's thats chug along fine! *hides*

I don't fight against useless odds. Unless doing so would save someone else.

I wonder what it's going to be like when El Nino hits us?

That is the big question. Scientists say the world temp will continue to rise. We had that un-scheduled El Nino in 2006 but the temp stayed about the same. What's killing us is just no cool years since 1997 and really no way for one to occur until the Co2 shield thins out. But when a powerful El-Nino hits.....who knows?

I don't fight against useless odds. Unless doing so would save someone else.

but its so much fun :confused:

but its so much fun :confused:

Perhaps, but I prefer to survive my fun. :p

That is the big question. Scientists say the world temp will continue to rise. We had that un-scheduled El Nino in 2006 but the temp stayed about the same. What's killing us is just no cool years since 1997 and really no way for one to occur until the Co2 shield thins out. But when a powerful El-Nino hits.....who knows?

What I find interesting is how we contribute 3-5% of all CO2 emissions per year.

What I find interesting is how we contribute 3-5% of all CO2 emissions per year.

And yet 125,000 years have passed without our current level of polar ice melt.

And yet 125,000 years have passed without our current level of polar ice melt.

Even though the Antarctic ice cap is actually growing.

Even though the Antarctic ice cap is actually growing.

Only during their winters. The net loss each year stretches from the South pole into South America. South America needs runoff water from mountain glaciers. (as does many parts of the world) 98% of the world's mountian glaciers have been shrinking. The water wars have already begun. Even here in Sweet Home Alabama (where the skies are so blue) were in a freekin water war (a big legal battle for water rights) with Tennessee & Georgia.

My Alamo http://allisonfx.com/images/APEvIsland.jpg

My musket http://content.ytmnd.com/content/b/8/d/b8d7257206719c42ddb3dbfd269ac162.jpg

My cause Evil.

It was only a fleshwound! :(

Look, stop that. :p

I think that even more so than the Alamo, one should look at Thermopylae. While Frank Miller's 300 is a wee bit over the top in the glorification of Leonidas, the last stand there bought essential time for most of the force to retreat, and held up the Persian Army to leave Athens free to engage the navy at Salamis. Add to that the time necessary for the Greeks to assemble the force that won at Plataea, and Thermopylae becomes a truly successful example of a last stand contributing to the final victory of the effort.

If I could have been there, Thermopylae would have been my Alamo, Greek independence would have been my Texas, and the sarissa and aspis would have been my musket (spear and shield of the hoplite).

Today, though, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

Only during their winters. The net loss each year stretches from the South pole into South America. South America needs runoff water from mountain glaciers. (as does many parts of the world) 98% of the world's mountian glaciers have been shrinking. The water wars have already begun. Even here in Sweet Home Alabama (where the skies are so blue) were in a freekin water war (a big legal battle for water rights) with Tennessee & Georgia.

Owens Valley 1905. really nothing new. People have fought over water since there has been irrigation.
Is global warming at least partially caused by man. Id say likely. But to be honest the major issue is the economy. SO Id rather worry about global warming later.

SNIP

you just want to wrestle with thousands of naked Persian infantry don't you?

you just want to wrestle with thousands of naked Persian infantry don't you?

No. I want to kill a bunch of crappy Persian infantry, and then get my name remembered forever. Remember, despite the movie, Leonidas' 300 Spartans were all men with born sons.

Besides, why would I do that? It wouldn't be fair, what with me being a heavily armored hoplite against a bunch of poor, unarmored conscripts.

My Texas? The Roman Empire!

My Alamo? The Alps!

My musket? A gladius and pila!

The catch? During World War three! :p

so I take it thats the last wedding you will be invited to?
And how!

Owens Valley 1905. really nothing new. People have fought over water since there has been irrigation.
Is global warming at least partially caused by man. Id say likely. But to be honest the major issue is the economy. SO Id rather worry about global warming later.

Global warming has a direct impact on the current economy crisis. The cost of the damage by these bigger hurricanes. More frequent and longer lasting tornados, droughts and forest fires is overwhelming.

Hurricane Ike was over a month ago and we are still have gas shortages in the southeast US. People here now shop less and frequent restraunts less because we don't know when and where our next tank of gas is going to come from.

My Alamo - The World Economic Union
My Texas - World Domination for said Union
My Musket
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-00w0.jpg

My Texas? The Roman Empire!

My Alamo? The Alps!

My musket? A gladius and pila!

The catch? During World War three! :p

Runs over CM with a tank.

I'd rather retreat and fight another day; as far as the phony circumstance of the only other options being either certain and total defeat of your side if you run vs. needing to knowingly sacrifice yourself to save that side as a last hope -- that's highly unrealistic. If we humor that fantasy nobody is going to say they would run away and let their side lose.

As far as the Alamo, it's heroic symbolism now, but there was nothing logical about it. If the Texans had gotten the hell out of there, Austin would have defeated the Mexican army later anyways. Not to diminish the symbolic heroism of it, but just stating a likely fact with the luxury of modern retrospect.

Sure, but the idea was to indulge a thought excercise in what I described as the mythologized version, to see if there was anything one could imagine where they wouldn't run away. (Within a context where if you fell back, there would be no other day, which I admit is highly contrived, but makes for a telling choice).

I had no doubt that few people (save for LG and Hank Hill) would pick the actual Alamo. My hope was more people could imagine a cause that meant enough to them that under the (unreaslistic) circumstances of "Die holding them off, but it will mean something", they would do it.

If I could have been there, Thermopylae would have been my Alamo, Greek independence would have been my Texas, and the sarissa and aspis would have been my musket (spear and shield of the hoplite).


A sarissa? In 480BC? No.
/nitpick

Adunbar, being a climate change skeptic is so 90's!

Just because you're catching cold in damp old England.... we're roasting here in Australia. Melbourne is meant to be mild but it was 30 degrees celsius today! We've had the 8 hottest recorded temperatures on this planet in the last decade. Australia's beautiful Coral Reef is bleaching, our longest river system - the Murray Darling is almost dry and we are meant to be in the middle of La Nina. I wonder what it's going to be like when El Nino hits us?
Yes it's remotely possible this global warming is earth-made rather than man-made. It's also remotely possible that next year, twemperatures around the world will drop.
However, I'm sure that you'll agree - it ain't gonna happen.
My "musket" is a loud voice and the ability to call the truth as I see it. My vision of paradise is seeing the nations of the world co-operate to do something positive together - as they are demonstrating right now with saving the financial system.

Collectivity, just because you are frying. Over 'ere in Auckland, the spring has been perfect; wall to wall days of sunshine and temperatures starting to hit the early 20s. It means that I am not getting cold, and that summer will be far better than it usually is. When you grow up with crappy summers, you can understand why I value an increase in temperatures.

In terms of sea level rising; well, that will teach the idiots that paid millions of dollars for waterfront property.

My Texas is the destruction of the undead horde.

My Alamo is wherever the swarms manage to pin me down.

My musket is whatever I can have on hand.

Open with...a sunrise over modern San Antonio...people playing, taking pictures, having lunch...

A rotted hand thrusts up from the ground...dozens...then hundreds...then thousands of Mexican Zombies rise from the ground, their tattered uniforms hanging off them...

Narrator: "When hell was too full, the dead rose to reclaim their land...and only one man could stop them..."

Cut to: Christopher Walken, in a hawaiian shirt, watch his grandkids play with pop guns in raccoon hats...his smile fades, his eyes widen as he sees the hordes coming...

Cut to: A zombie, bearing down on a screaming woman, its leering richtus of a grin opens with a hungry moan, but suddenly, it stops and looks up.

Walken: "You'll have to...pardon me. Its a question...on your mind" (Walken then savagely beats the thing's skull in with a "Welcome to the Alamo" promotional beef tenderizer...

Narrator: In a world where the dead outnumber the tourists...only the last descendent of a long dead legend can save us all....

THIS SUMMER....CHRISTOPHER WALKEN IS....."ERNIE BOWIE: ALAMO ZOMBIE BASHER"

this film is not yet rated

Open with...a sunrise over modern San Antonio...people playing, taking pictures, having lunch...

A rotted hand thrusts up from the ground...dozens...then hundreds...then thousands of Mexican Zombies rise from the ground, their tattered uniforms hanging off them...

Narrator: "When hell was too full, the dead rose to reclaim their land...and only one man could stop them..."

Cut to: Christopher Walken, in a hawaiian shirt, watch his grandkids play with pop guns in raccoon hats...his smile fades, his eyes widen as he sees the hordes coming...

Cut to: A zombie, bearing down on a screaming woman, its leering richtus of a grin opens with a hungry moan, but suddenly, it stops and looks up.

Walken: "You'll have to...pardon me. Its a question...on your mind" (Walken then savagely beats the thing's skull in with a "Welcome to the Alamo" promotional beef tenderizer...

Narrator: In a world where the dead outnumber the tourists...only the last descendent of a long dead legend can save us all....

THIS SUMMER....CHRISTOPHER WALKEN IS....."ERNIE BOWIE: ALAMO ZOMBIE BASHER"

this film is not yet rated

Absolutely Terrible. It'll be the highest grossing film of Summer 2009.

Open with...a sunrise over modern San Antonio...people playing, taking pictures, having lunch...

A rotted hand thrusts up from the ground...dozens...then hundreds...then thousands of Mexican Zombies rise from the ground, their tattered uniforms hanging off them...

Narrator: "When hell was too full, the dead rose to reclaim their land...and only one man could stop them..."

Cut to: Christopher Walken, in a hawaiian shirt, watch his grandkids play with pop guns in raccoon hats...his smile fades, his eyes widen as he sees the hordes coming...

Cut to: A zombie, bearing down on a screaming woman, its leering richtus of a grin opens with a hungry moan, but suddenly, it stops and looks up.

Walken: "You'll have to...pardon me. Its a question...on your mind" (Walken then savagely beats the thing's skull in with a "Welcome to the Alamo" promotional beef tenderizer...

Narrator: In a world where the dead outnumber the tourists...only the last descendent of a long dead legend can save us all....

THIS SUMMER....CHRISTOPHER WALKEN IS....."ERNIE BOWIE: ALAMO ZOMBIE BASHER"

this film is not yet rated

I'd watch it...

You know, now that I have had time to dwell on it, we could also toss in Bruce Cambpell as a decendant of Davey Crocket, and David Archette as a descendant of William Travis; then it would be a blockbuster no matter how bad it is.

David Duchovny and Simon Pegg could make appearances as well

You know, now that I have had time to dwell on it, we could also toss in Bruce Cambpell as a decendant of Davey Crocket, and David Archette as a descendant of William Travis; then it would be a blockbuster no matter how bad it is.

Oh, hell yeah, there's not a balding, philandering putz in an overpriced tan suit that wouldn't green light that shit right now!

Bruce is getting a bit aged, though...you see him on "Burn Notice"? He's good, of course, he's still The Man, I just hate to see him slow down...

Oh, hell yeah, there's not a balding, philandering putz in an overpriced tan suit that wouldn't green light that shit right now!

Bruce is getting a bit aged, though...you see him on "Burn Notice"? He's good, of course, he's still The Man, I just hate to see him slow down...

He's still got it, you ever watched "My Name is Bruce" there are plans for a sequel, "My Name is Still Bruce"