NationStates Jolt Archive

With many countries becoming more and more draconian in there fight against the humble smoker. It seems those resourceful Chinese have come up with a healthy alternative to our much loved tobacco.

Electronic cigarettes are a metal tube; inside they have something called an atomiser, powered by a battery. The nicotine comes from a replicable cartridge filled with a liquid containing the nicotine. Long story short what you "smoke" is mostly water vapour laced with nicotine. And because nothing is actually lit and it contains no tobacco it isn’t covered by the smoking bans, so you can use them in all public places as long as the management doesn’t mind.

So what do you guys think of them, and has anybody got one. I definably plan on get one now there is away to get my fix without slowly killing myself

Good links: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

http://e-cigs.co.uk/

Nifty enough. Now we have the smokers only giving themselves lung cancer instead of the rest of us. :P

No offence to actual smokers, but I've never been a fan of the habit (and never will be), and to see a decrease in the amount of passively-gained lung cancer will be a godsend.

Is it the actually nicotine that causes lung cancer? Because from what I’ve read that the only slightly harmful substance that is contained in the "smoke".

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I see no health down sides.

im pretty sure those things already exist here as part of a stop smoking program. (not the exact same thing as you describe) you might even be able to get them from your doctor by prescription.

if all you want is nicotine why not buy nicotine gum at the store? no worries about inferior ingredients there, eh? its very good for those times when you will need a cig but cant smoke--like on the airplane.

Nifty enough. Now we have the smokers only giving themselves lung cancer instead of the rest of us. :P

No offence to actual smokers, but I've never been a fan of the habit (and never will be), and to see a decrease in the amount of passively-gained lung cancer will be a godsend.

Don't see why you'd get lung cancer by using this, at least, it would be less common. It's really just water and nicotine.

Is it the actually nicotine that causes lung cancer? Because from what I’ve read that the only slightly harmful substance that is contained in the "smoke".

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I see no health down sides.
nocotine is poison. it has many many bad effects on your body.

Nicotine gum and the like are to help you quit smoking all together; this is just a healthier alternative. You still get the "buzz" you get with a normal fag but non of the cancer

BBC news story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/health/newsid_7658000/7658566.stm

BBC news story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7484434.stm

And another one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7642378.stm

Meh, I may have been wrong. It is 11:30 PM, and I just misplaced the italics tags on the word 'is' by mistake. Still, I'm fairly sure nicotine is slightly dangerous.

It seems those resourceful Chinese have come up with a healthy alternative to our much loved tobacco.

By healthy you mean less bad, surely?

Nifty enough. Now we have the smokers only giving themselves lung cancer instead of the rest of us. :P

No offence to actual smokers, but I've never been a fan of the habit (and never will be), and to see a decrease in the amount of passively-gained lung cancer will be a godsend.
Isn't it the tar that causes most of it?

http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/smoking/SMO_cigarettes.html

Why yes, yes it is.

Meh, I may have been wrong. It is 11:30 PM, and I just misplaced the italics tags on the word 'is' by mistake. Still, I'm fairly sure nicotine is slightly dangerous.

Not any more dangerous than oxygen (which is a neurotoxin) or caffeine (which can cause all kinds of nasty side-effects).

We have these in Finland. A newspaper did a story about it.

Nicotine does not cause cancer, for it is not a carcinogen. It is the substance that makes you addicted to smoking, though.

Nicotine gum and the like are to help you quit smoking all together; this is just a healthier alternative. You still get the "buzz" you get with a normal fag but non of the cancer

BBC news story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/health/newsid_7658000/7658566.stm

BBC news story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7484434.stm

And another one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7642378.stm
so what? it will still give you that jolt of nicotine that you are craving.

so what? it will still give you that jolt of nicotine that you are craving. The gum and patches? No they dont, this apparantly does.

Nicotine does not cause cancer, for it is not a carcinogen. It is the substance that makes you addicted to smoking, though.

Isn't it one of the most poisonous substances on Earth, though?

The gum and patches? No they dont, this apparantly does.
the patch provides as steady stream. the lozenges and gum give you a jolt.

besides arent you paying enough for cigarettes now? how much MORE are you willing to spend so that you can pretend that your habit isnt harmful?

The gum and patches? No they dont, this apparantly does.

Many people are addicted to the concept of cigarettes just as much as their effect.

the patch provides as steady stream. the lozenges and gum give you a jolt.

besides arent you paying enough for cigarettes now? how much MORE are you willing to spend so that you can pretend that your habit isnt harmful? These new e-cig's are cheaper than normal fags in the long run. And we don’t pretend smoking isn’t harmful, we all know it is but it doesn’t bother us, we are happy to take the risk. But with these new devises it does seem that we can continue the habit at a much lesser risk. Also, there are no second hand smoke effects with these devices as all the nicotine in the vapour you breathe in is absorbed into the lungs and all you breath out is water vapour. So now even the most hardcore anti-smokers cant complain.

These new e-cig's are cheaper than normal fags in the long run. And we don’t pretend smoking isn’t harmful, we all know it is but it doesn’t bother us, we are happy to take the risk. But with these new devises it does seem that we can continue the habit at a much lesser risk. Also, there are no second hand smoke effects with these devices as all the nicotine in the vapour you breathe in is absorbed into the lungs and all you breath out is water vapour. So now even the most hardcore anti-smokers cant complain.
*shudder*

whatever you want to believe.

*shudder*

whatever you want to believe. Well I've spent all morning researching the things, tell me where I’m wrong.

What I don't get is, what's the point of the no-nicotine "zero ejuice"?

What I don't get is, what's the point of the no-nicotine "zero ejuice"?

It has nicotine in it. Read the whole thread again.

Well I've spent all morning researching the things, tell me where I’m wrong.
granted that you would be less annoying to those around you.

but, all you have done is to reduce smoking to a nicotine delivery system. if all you want is nicotine there are many other ways to get it. and if all smoking is worth to you is a continuation of an addiction maybe its time to quit the addiction.

nicotine is poison. there are many other bad effects of smoking besides cancer. maybe you should spend the rest of the day looking at those instead of congratulating yourself on finding a way to keep your habit in the face of public censure.

Is it the actually nicotine that causes lung cancer? Because from what I’ve read that the only slightly harmful substance that is contained in the "smoke".

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I see no health down sides.

These new e-cig's are cheaper than normal fags in the long run. And we don’t pretend smoking isn’t harmful, we all know it is but it doesn’t bother us, we are happy to take the risk. But with these new devises it does seem that we can continue the habit at a much lesser risk. Also, there are no second hand smoke effects with these devices as all the nicotine in the vapour you breathe in is absorbed into the lungs and all you breath out is water vapour. So now even the most hardcore anti-smokers cant complain.

Yes, I can, but I won't, so long as you're decent enough not to smoke in my presence.

Well I've spent all morning researching the things, tell me where I’m wrong.

Now, nicotine isn't just a poison, it's a pesticide. You mentioned Oxygen as a neurotoxin? It might be, but it won't kill you. Nicotine will kill you. It's used to kill bugs and such in greenhouses and, when used, the people wear gasmasks due to the fact that it's poisonous and deadly.

The greatest issue, from a health perspective that isn't quite to the level of "Omg it will kill you!" Is that your body adjusts to the effects it has on you and this results in you being unable to quit smoking without feeling ill effects for quite a while.

On top of this, the effects it has on the body are largely unbalancing to its natural state.

I already know the downsides of nicotine, and they sound a hell of alot better than the downsides of the tar and the many carsagenic chemicals in the normal ciggys.

It has nicotine in it. Read the whole thread again. Actually, you can get the cartridges without any nicotine in. Some people like to puff away on it just for the taste, and for people trying to quit this can be a good way to do it.

Yes, I can, but I won't, so long as you're decent enough not to smoke in my presence. But how can you complain about something when it has no effect on you what so ever, not even a bad smell. While on the other hand makes the user happy

Well, now that it's truly being confined only to the person partaking, I say let 'em suck their fags to their hearts' content.

I already know the downsides of nicotine, and they sound a hell of alot better than the downsides of the tar and the many carsagenic chemicals in the normal ciggys.

It does, it is. It's kinda surprising that, as it was marketed as a health product back a few hundred years ago, that they made a delivery system that was completely and utterly unhealthy.

Actually, you can get the cartridges without any nicotine in. Some people like to puff away on it just for the taste, and for people trying to quit this can be a good way to do it.

I wonder how good water vapour tastes. *is mostly just curious*

I already know the downsides of nicotine, and they sound a hell of alot better than the downsides of the tar and the many carsagenic chemicals in the normal ciggys.

Actually, you can get the cartridges without any nicotine in. Some people like to puff away on it just for the taste, and for people trying to quit this can be a good way to do it.

But how can you complain about something when it has no effect on you what so ever, not even a bad smell. While on the other hand makes the user happy

You're going by the assumption that it won't have any effect on me or anyone around me. This assumption is based on the producer saying it won't, despite this being an entirely new product and there being no guarantee for this.

This isn't certain and while I'm not allergic, some people most certainly are. Besides which, I have no interest in nicotine. I get enough poisons on a daily basis through my studies, I don't need another source.

I wonder how good water vapour tastes. *is mostly just curious* Well you can get all sorts of flavours, from melon to menthol. e-cigs.co.uk has a wide range of juices for the device.

You're going by the assumption that it won't have any effect on me or anyone around me. This assumption is based on the producer saying it won't, despite this being an entirely new product and there being no guarantee for this.

This isn't certain and while I'm not allergic, some people most certainly are. Besides which, I have no interest in nicotine. I get enough poisons on a daily basis through my studies, I don't need another source. Fair enough, and in the same way I stop smoking when asked to I would stop "smoking" these new devices if someone asked me to, but only after explaining the differences between traditional ciggy's and the new hi-tech version.

http://www.themedguru.com/articles/e_cigarettes_no_safe_alternative_to_tobacco_who-86111348.html

World Health Organization is upset their name has been used to suggest they're safe.

World Health Organization is upset their name has been used to suggest they're safe. Yes, and manufacturers who have been claiming this are ruining it for the rest of us. It is not a smoking cessation devise, although I would argue that it can be used as one. It is purely a replacement

Damn, this thread isn't about online gay dating sites as the title made me expect.

And I already had plans for a parody spin-off called "gays should have their own internet":(

IIRC these things are forbidden over here (Netherlands) since they are considered 'medicines'.

IIRC these things are forbidden over here (Netherlands) since they are considered 'medicines'.

So you can smoke just about anything except for the one thing that won't harm anyone else or you (that much), in Holland? Crazy.

Yeah, that sort of things happen when unexpected products are introduced and laws about nicotine content, prescription medicine, and medicine testing happen to apply to them.

Damn, this thread isn't about online gay dating sites as the title made me expect.

And I already had plans for a parody spin-off called "gays should have their own internet":(Funny how the words "I was puffin' on a fag..." can have two very different meanings depending on which side of the pond you're on....:eek2:

Funny how the words "I was puffin' on a fag..." can have two very different meanings depending on which side of the pond you're on....:eek2:

And we're talking about this on Coming Out Day...

And I thought this was a thread on homosexual robots...

Silly me forgot that the British call their smokes fags.

they have been in the US as a stop smoking aid for years. I remember Commercials a few years back for it. or something similar.

Well, now that it's truly being confined only to the person partaking, I say let 'em suck their fags to their hearts' content.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/fred_phelps.jpg

"You sodomite! God Hates YOU!!"

If it works and smokers take to it, the person who invented it should get the Nobel prize.

they have been in the US as a stop smoking aid for years. I remember Commercials a few years back for it. or something similar.

something similar. it's an inhaler. no electronics.

This is giving me flashbacks to an old 2000AD comic which the main character had a little robot cigar

I want one. Where can I get one in the states?

Isn't it the tar that causes most of it?

http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/smoking/SMO_cigarettes.html

Why yes, yes it is.

But the more tar, the harsher, and better, the cigarette!

But the more tar, the harsher, and better, the cigarette!

Black American Spirits ftw.

But the more tar, the harsher, and better, the cigarette!

Therefore, you should start gargling with asphalt.

I thought this would be about gay people

I got to start reading better! I thought this one was about electronic gay people.:eek2:

I got to start reading better! I thought this one was about electronic gay people.:eek2:

Maybe it still is... :p

I got to start reading better! I thought this one was about electronic gay people.:eek2:

oh yeah... they get turned on when plugged in. :tongue:

why does that forum show the person exhaling smoke?

or is that supposed to be steam...

that's alot of steam to be inhaling...

Funny how the words "I was puffin' on a fag..." can have two very different meanings depending on which side of the pond you're on....:eek2:

Indeed, Lost Planet, indeed. :salute:

"In United Kingdom, you puff on fag; In Soviet Russia, fag puff on you."

I expected it to be a spirited debate about homosexuals on the internets. :headbang:

oh yeah... they get turned on when plugged in. :tongue:

why does that forum show the person exhaling smoke?

or is that supposed to be steam...

that's alot of steam to be inhaling...

Steam or some other bodily fluid... doh! Why do I always find the necessity to get graphic!?:(

Steam or some other bodily fluid... doh! Why do I always find the necessity to get graphic!?:(

'Tis one of your many charms, Milady!

'Tis one of your many charms, Milady!

Oh my, thank you Sir JuNii.:wink:

Not any more dangerous than oxygen (which is a neurotoxin) or caffeine (which can cause all kinds of nasty side-effects).

Oxygen is, however, necessary for life, nicotine is not.

In the US, nicotine-based pesticides are widely used and have been implicated in the death of honeybees and the collapse of honeybee colonies.

http://www.downtoearth.org.in/full6.asp?foldername=20080630&filename=sci&sec_id=12&sid=9

There are many more citations available.

The following are articles on the toxicities of nicotine, oxygen and caffeine. The general impression I'm getting is that the toxicities of oxygen and caffeine are not nearly as serious as nicotine toxicity. Oxygen toxicity being manifested as "bends" and treated in a hyperbaric situation. Caffeine toxicity being treated by detox. Nicotine toxicity is treated by administering oxygen.

It should be noted that any substance is toxic if taken in sufficient quantities, including water, so the "toxicities" of various substances should in no way be used as an excuse to continue poisoning oneself and others with nicotine.

http://www.answers.com/topic/oxygen-toxicity
http://health.howstuffworks.com/nicotine7.htm
http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine_allergy.html

Nicotine is also in tomatoes, and they haven’t killed anybody :p. From what I can tell nicotine is only poisonous if you eat it, not breathe it in. So anybody going on about nicotine poisoning from cigarettes is just scaremongering. Something the anti-smoking lobby is well trained at

Nicotine is also in tomatoes, and they haven’t killed anybody :p. From what I can tell nicotine is only poisonous if you eat it, not breathe it in. So anybody going on about nicotine poisoning from cigarettes is just scaremongering. Something the anti-smoking lobby is well trained at

Nicotine is not in the fruit but in the stems and leaves. Hence, eat the fruit, you'll live, eat the stems and leaves, you'll not only not have a taste treat, but you'll become ill, possibly dead.

And, since nicotine is used in aerosol pesticides, I would venture to say that breathing it would be unhealthy.

Silly me forgot that the British call their smokes fags.
No, you forgot that the Americans call their queers smokes.

And, since nicotine is used in aerosol pesticides, I would venture to say that breathing it would be unhealthy.

Nah, nicotine itself isn't a problem except at high doses; indeed, in targeted applications it can be used for some very useful purposes due to its dopamine stimulation.

Nah, nicotine itself isn't a problem except at high doses; indeed, in targeted applications it can be used for some very useful purposes due to its dopamine stimulation.

I'm curious... what kind of applications that is not available in other forms?

Nah, nicotine itself isn't a problem except at high doses; indeed, in targeted applications it can be used for some very useful purposes due to its dopamine stimulation.

Define "high doses". Was "8 drops of pure nicotine is enough to kill a large breed dog" accurate or one of DARE's inaccurate scare tactics for high school students?

Does the vapour smell like anything?

Nifty enough. Now we have the smokers only giving themselves lung cancer instead of the rest of us. :P

No offence to actual smokers, but I've never been a fan of the habit (and never will be), and to see a decrease in the amount of passively-gained lung cancer will be a godsend.
Nicotine has not been listed as a carcinogen. It has actually been implicated in reducing the risk of breast cancer in certain women with a genetic abnormality.
Isn't it one of the most poisonous substances on Earth, though?

Yes, I can, but I won't, so long as you're decent enough not to smoke in my presence.



Now, nicotine isn't just a poison, it's a pesticide. You mentioned Oxygen as a neurotoxin? It might be, but it won't kill you. Nicotine will kill you. It's used to kill bugs and such in greenhouses and, when used, the people wear gasmasks due to the fact that it's poisonous and deadly.
Yes, nicotine is highly toxic (moreso than cocain...the LD50 is listed at 3 mg/kg in mice (cocaine is about 95 mg/kg in mice). However, the ammount ingested in a cigarette is almost nothing. People easily smoke two packs a day without ever showing symptoms of nicotine overdose. One cigarette averages 1mg. A mouse would have to smoke 3 before it was fatal to 50% of them. We are slightly larger and less sensitive than a mouse.

High levels of oxygen actually could kill you as well...it becomes toxic to the lungs (the only part of the cell that can metabolize oxygen is the mitochondria). hyperventilation could be dangerous, thought death would be rare.

Define "high doses". Was "8 drops of pure nicotine is enough to kill a large breed dog" accurate or one of DARE's inaccurate scare tactics for high school students?

I remember them saying that...I doubt it.

for pure nicotine, here are the stats I found:
ORL-RAT LD50 50 mg kg-1
IPR-MUS LD50 5.9 mg kg-1
SKN-RBT LD50 50 mg kg-1
IVN-MUS LD50 0.8 mg kg-1
SKN-RAT LD50 140 mg kg-1

LD50 is the lethal dose for 50% of the population.
ORL is oral, IPR is intraperitoneal (abdominal cavity), SKN in skin, IVN is intravenous, RAT is...well...rat, MUS is mouse, RBT is rabbit.

It is listed as toxic by means of inhalation, ingestion, and absorption through the skin.

These numbers, I would say, are likely more than 8 drops of pure nicotine (except for the two mice ones).

Is it the actually nicotine that causes lung cancer? Because from what I’ve read that the only slightly harmful substance that is contained in the "smoke".

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I see no health down sides.

its the carcinogens in the tobaccos tar. Nicotine is a stimulant. and an additive, causing you to become addicted. Patches, are essentially the same thing, as are the nicotene gum. smokeless tobacco goes no tobacco, seems viable to me.

Does the vapour smell like anything? Nope, although it can taste of just about anything you want.

As for the nicotine, well the highest dosage you can get to put into the e-cig is 36mg, meaning 36mg of nicotine per 1ml of juice. And no one is really sure how many ciggy's worth of smoke you get from 1ml of juice. Although some people believe use of the e-cig has made them more addicted as they use it a lot more than normal fags and the higher nicotine content of some juices.

Aren't patches and gum insanely expensive?

Aren't patches and gum insanely expensive?

Aye.

AS for the E-Fag, I was wondering of it's construction and taste. I mean, if I only smoked for the nicotine, I'd smoke like 2-5 cigs a day. However, I smoke about half a pack a day. So does it feel like smoking and taste like tobacco?

And what I mean by construction, is it soft like a real cig so it fits a holder?

Might even think about getting one as it seems like I can't smoke anywhere these days without some wise-ass complaining.

I am happy with stringent laws passing over smoking and let me give u a very simple example why. I have severe allergic rhinitis, everytime some1 smokes in front of me I can very well get an allergy attack. Now why should I suffer coz some1 cant stop farting smoke from his mouth, me or 100 of other people children women oldies around because that one man who is insensitive enough to publically smoke cant stop. Smoking in a public place is like peeing in a pool, you can debate that you peed in a corner but ur pee will still float towards me. So i guess this device is pretty useful if you smokers gotta kill someone please kill yourself and rid us of your stupidity, we are not interested in suffering with you.

Aye.

AS for the E-Fag, I was wondering of it's construction and taste. I mean, if I only smoked for the nicotine, I'd smoke like 2-5 cigs a day. However, I smoke about half a pack a day. So does it feel like smoking and taste like tobacco?

And what I mean by construction, is it soft like a real cig so it fits a holder?

Might even think about getting one as it seems like I can't smoke anywhere these days without some wise-ass complaining. Well its a metal tube, depends of the model but there about 6" long. Goggle it for more info, e-cigs.co.uk is the best UK site for it.

Although I think they may be classed as a medical product in Finland, so you may not be able to get one.

I am happy with stringent laws passing over smoking and let me give u a very simple example why. I have severe allergic rhinitis, everytime some1 smokes in front of me I can very well get an allergy attack. Now why should I suffer coz some1 cant stop farting smoke from his mouth, me or 100 of other people children women oldies around because that one man who is insensitive enough to publically smoke cant stop. Smoking in a public place is like peeing in a pool, you can debate that you peed in a corner but ur pee will still float towards me. So i guess this device is pretty useful if you smokers gotta kill someone please kill yourself and rid us of your stupidity, we are not interested in suffering with you. You know what that is, unlucky.

I am happy with stringent laws passing over smoking and let me give u a very simple example why. I have severe allergic rhinitis, everytime some1 smokes in front of me I can very well get an allergy attack. Now why should I suffer coz some1 cant stop farting smoke from his mouth, me or 100 of other people children women oldies around because that one man who is insensitive enough to publically smoke cant stop. Smoking in a public place is like peeing in a pool, you can debate that you peed in a corner but ur pee will still float towards me. So i guess this device is pretty useful if you smokers gotta kill someone please kill yourself and rid us of your stupidity, we are not interested in suffering with you.

I'm quite sure you're smart enough not to go into restaurants that allow smoking then, right? Still they decided to ban pretty much all indoor smoking here.


Well its a metal tube, depends of the model but there about 6" long. Goggle it for more info, e-cigs.co.uk is the best UK site for it.

Although I think they may be classed as a medical product in Finland, so you may not be able to get one.


Yes, appears so. They do allow the sales of non-nicotine versions, which would mean no one should have a single reason to complain about using it wherever I want to. Other pros would be quitting my nicotine addiction (and still keep "smoking", which I enjoy) as well as not supporting the big tobacco companies.

119€ is quite a lot of money for a student though.

High levels of oxygen actually could kill you as well...it becomes toxic to the lungs (the only part of the cell that can metabolize oxygen is the mitochondria). hyperventilation could be dangerous, thought death would be rare.
Oxygen toxicity is dependent more on atmospheric pressure than on oxygen levels. And toxic is slightly misleading. It's toxic in the same way that acids and bases are toxic. It's a corrosive.

Shine. Quite like smoking things properly tbqh.

I'm quite sure you're smart enough not to go into restaurants that allow smoking then, right? Still they decided to ban pretty much all indoor smoking here.




Yes, appears so. They do allow the sales of non-nicotine versions, which would mean no one should have a single reason to complain about using it wherever I want to. Other pros would be quitting my nicotine addiction (and still keep "smoking", which I enjoy) as well as not supporting the big tobacco companies.

119€ is quite a lot of money for a student though.
yeah it is.

for that kind of money you could get a prescription for chantix and be done with smoking altogether.

I'm curious... what kind of applications that is not available in other forms?

Nicotine stimulates dopamine receptors, which makes it potentially useful as a way of reducing and mitigating conditions that interfere with those receptors. In this case, the biggest targets for that kind of treatment are Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, which may explain why smokers tend to have a significantly lower incidence of both of these conditions.

However, there's a lot more research to do before anything conclusive, let alone treatments, could be developed.

yeah it is.

for that kind of money you could get a prescription for chantix and be done with smoking altogether.

...but I don't want to? I want a product that is as close to real smoking as possible with a minimized amount of damage done to the people around me. And once I get my e-fag, I'll sure as hell be puffing it away wherever I please.

What anti-smoking activists need to realise is that it's not just the nicotine, it's a habit. And hey, without any bad effects, it won't really even count as a bad habit, now does it?

.
What anti-smoking activists need to realise is that it's not just the nicotine, it's a habit. And hey, without any bad effects, it won't really even count as a bad habit, now does it?

The habit is what makes it hard to quit. Physical dependence on nicotine is completely gone in a few days at most; it's the habits that form, and the psychological addiction associated with that habit, that makes it so hard to quit. Nicotine itself is quite weak in terms of its withdrawal symptoms; if you take away the environment that produces the habits, it's very easy to quit.

Staying quit, of course, is that challenging part. I personally have no intentions of quitting any time soon, because I enjoy smoking quite a bit, but I would always be happy to hear of ways that preserve the things I enjoy about smoking while simultaneously reducing the risks.

I see the name of this thread and I keep imagining some kind of Gay Borg. "Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated by the Gay Borg."

I see the name of this thread and I keep imagining some kind of Gay Borg. "Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated by the Gay Borg."

Rectal probes take on a whole new meaning...

Well, at least the Borg Cube will be nicely decorated for once.

Rectal probes take on a whole new meaning...

Well, at least the Borg Cube will be nicely decorated for once.

Assimilation would go something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDXCFUAhqW0

I see the name of this thread and I keep imagining some kind of Gay Borg. "Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated by the Gay Borg."

Open with...a starry night, the Milky Way rotating as the camera turns...

Cut to...Star Fleet Headquarters in San Francisco, morning...a dark, angular shadow begins to fall over the city....

The screen goes staticy...strange, unknowable whispers...

Cut to...Tim Gunn, from Project Runway on A&E, dressed in the same suit but with a stylish optical bio-organic implant with a striking yet tasteful mauve glow....

Tim Gunn: "I am Fagcutus...your distinctiveness is dumpy and accentuates all the wrong things about your figure. Lower your shields. We're going shopping"

Open upbeat techno music.....

The funniest part about this is that in the Star Trek universe Starfleet Headquarters really is in San Francisco. Which makes it all the more fabulous

The funniest part about this is that in the Star Trek universe Starfleet Headquarters really is in San Francisco. Which makes it all the more fabulous

I'll tell you, Alice Krige would make one hell of a lesbot.