NationStates Jolt Archive

Troopergate Report: Palin Abused Power (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6004368&page=1)
Sarah Palin abused her power when she fired her Public Safety Commissioner this July, a state investigation has concluded.

An Alaskan state investigation concluded today that Gov. Sarah Palin had abused her power when she fired her Public Safety Commissioner in July.

The Alaska legislature voted to release the 263-page report (http://download2.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf) on the "Troopergate" scandal, a state kerfuffle which has come to haunt Gov. Sarah Palin's vice presidential bid. The scandal centered around her firing of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. Monegan and others believed Palin fired him because he refused to take action against Mike Wooten, a state trooper under him who had been involved in a messy divorce with Palin's sister, Molly.

The investigator, Stephen Branchflower, found that Monegan's refusal to fire Wooten "was not the sole reason" but was "likely a contributing factor" to his firing.

Branchflower also said Palin's attorney general failed to provide him with e-mails of Palin's that he had requested as part of the probe.

It was not immediately clear whether legislators would seek punishment or censure for Palin as a result of the probe's findings.

"To me that's the smaller issue of all this," said Democratic Rep. Les Gara, who has been an outspoken critic of Palin's. Any action against the governor would properly come from the state Personnel Board, said Gara.

That panel is currently conducting its own Troopergate probe -- at Palin's prompting. The governor has held since September that the Personnel Board was the proper body to investigate her.

The report's release brought a palpable sense of relief from some legislators, who had been besieged for weeks by reporters from the national media, and a driven effort by the McCain-Palin campaign and its allies to discredit their probe and those involved in it.

"What I would like more than anything is an apology," said Gara. "An apology from the McCain campaign to the people they attacked to try to stop this investigation."

Palin violated the state Ethics Act, Branchflower found.

"The evidence supports the conclusion that Governor Palin, at the least, engaged in 'official action' by her inaction if not her active participation or assistance to her husband in attempting to get Trooper Wooten fired [and there is evidence of her active participation]," Branchflower concluded.

"[Palin] knowingly ... permitted [husband] Todd Palin to use the Governor's office and the resources of the Governor's office ... in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired."

In an interview with ABC News' Charlie Gibson in September, Palin denied her concern over Wooten had any connection to Monegan's firing.

"[Wooten] is is still a trooper," Palin said during the interview. "Commissioner Monegan was replaced because he wasn't reaching the goals that our cabinet members were to reach, find efficiencies, put new vision, new energy into all of our departments."

The McCain-Palin campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The 14-member, Republican-dominated Legislative Council met in closed session this morning with Branchflower. After seven hours of exhaustive review, the legislators voted unanimously to release the report to the public.


more of the story here (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=6004368&page=2)

I haven't read the huge report yet, but this is a body-blow to the already shaky McCain/Palin ticket.

"Already shaken" is an understatement.

Here's hoping this will be a death blow. :)

Ahahaha. Here's the coup de grace we have all been waiting for. :)

Wow, it's October already, huh? Notice the part about a 14 member, republican dominated group that voted unanimously

wow look at the sponsor link...its for the McCain-Palin campain lol

Don't care, not relevant. There are a lot of better things to hang that nitwit on.

Don't care, not relevant. There are a lot of better things to hang that nitwit on.

I agree there are better reasons to dislike Palin, but I wouldn't go so far as to say this is irrelevant.

It will be interesting to see how this plays with soft-supporters and independents.

It's basically beating a dead horse if you ask me. Or at least putting the bullet in the wounded animal.

I agree there are better reasons to dislike Palin, but I wouldn't go so far as to say this is irrelevant.

It will be interesting to see how this plays with soft-supporters and independents.

Does that team still have soft supporters left? I thought all they had now were the KKK types because of their recent hate mongering.

Does that team still have soft supporters left? I thought all they had now were the KKK types because of their recent hate mongering.

Yeah, it's gotten pretty disgusting. I just saw a clip on youtube of a McCain/Palin rally before everything got started. It made me physically ill.

Ayup.

Do we have to add '-gate' to it?
Why cant we just call it 'Functionally Retarded Governor Abuses Power, Gets Caught'?
Its not as catchy, but come on, people, Nixon's DEAD. True, he's one of the living dead, and his daily battles to safeguard life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness from Zombie Lenin are all that's keeping the West from collapsing into glorious socialist rubble, but he's still dead.

i think Palin's a pretty cool guy. eh abuses power and doesn't afriad of anything, doggonnit.

But she says it was because of budget cuts. We should trust her at her word!
:p

If ya don't like the message, try to smear the messenger:

ARLINGTON, VA — McCain-Palin 2008 spokeswoman Meg Stapleton issued the following statement on today’s release of Stephen Branchflower’s report:

“Today’s report shows that the Governor acted within her proper and lawful authority in the reassignment of Walt Monegan. The report also illustrates what we’ve known all along: this was a partisan led inquiry run by Obama supporters and the Palins were completely justified in their concern regarding Trooper Wooten given his violent and rogue behavior. Lacking evidence to support the original Monegan allegation, the Legislative Council seriously overreached, making a tortured argument to find fault without basis in law or fact. The Governor is looking forward to cooperating with the Personnel Board and continuing her conversation with the American people regarding the important issues facing the country.”

link (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/10/mccain-palin-camp-responds-to-alaska-panel-finding/)

How's that for a pithy rebuttal to hundreds of pages of incriminating evidence?

If ya don't like the message, try to smear the messenger:

ARLINGTON, VA — McCain-Palin 2008 spokeswoman Meg Stapleton issued the following statement on today’s release of Stephen Branchflower’s report:

“Today’s report shows that the Governor acted within her proper and lawful authority in the reassignment of Walt Monegan. The report also illustrates what we’ve known all along: this was a partisan led inquiry run by Obama supporters and the Palins were completely justified in their concern regarding Trooper Wooten given his violent and rogue behavior. Lacking evidence to support the original Monegan allegation, the Legislative Council seriously overreached, making a tortured argument to find fault without basis in law or fact. The Governor is looking forward to cooperating with the Personnel Board and continuing her conversation with the American people regarding the important issues facing the country.”

link (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/10/mccain-palin-camp-responds-to-alaska-panel-finding/)
I love that they're trying to link this to Obama, too. That Obama -- there's nothing he can't do. He's everywhere, doing and knowing everything. Maybe he's God. :p

Troopergate Report: Palin Abused Power (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6004368&page=1)
Sarah Palin abused her power when she fired her Public Safety Commissioner this July, a state investigation has concluded.

An Alaskan state investigation concluded today that Gov. Sarah Palin had abused her power when she fired her Public Safety Commissioner in July.

The Alaska legislature voted to release the 263-page report (http://download2.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf) on the "Troopergate" scandal, a state kerfuffle which has come to haunt Gov. Sarah Palin's vice presidential bid. The scandal centered around her firing of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. Monegan and others believed Palin fired him because he refused to take action against Mike Wooten, a state trooper under him who had been involved in a messy divorce with Palin's sister, Molly.

The investigator, Stephen Branchflower, found that Monegan's refusal to fire Wooten "was not the sole reason" but was "likely a contributing factor" to his firing.

Branchflower also said Palin's attorney general failed to provide him with e-mails of Palin's that he had requested as part of the probe.

It was not immediately clear whether legislators would seek punishment or censure for Palin as a result of the probe's findings.

"To me that's the smaller issue of all this," said Democratic Rep. Les Gara, who has been an outspoken critic of Palin's. Any action against the governor would properly come from the state Personnel Board, said Gara.

That panel is currently conducting its own Troopergate probe -- at Palin's prompting. The governor has held since September that the Personnel Board was the proper body to investigate her.

The report's release brought a palpable sense of relief from some legislators, who had been besieged for weeks by reporters from the national media, and a driven effort by the McCain-Palin campaign and its allies to discredit their probe and those involved in it.

"What I would like more than anything is an apology," said Gara. "An apology from the McCain campaign to the people they attacked to try to stop this investigation."

Palin violated the state Ethics Act, Branchflower found.

"The evidence supports the conclusion that Governor Palin, at the least, engaged in 'official action' by her inaction if not her active participation or assistance to her husband in attempting to get Trooper Wooten fired [and there is evidence of her active participation]," Branchflower concluded.

"[Palin] knowingly ... permitted [husband] Todd Palin to use the Governor's office and the resources of the Governor's office ... in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired."

In an interview with ABC News' Charlie Gibson in September, Palin denied her concern over Wooten had any connection to Monegan's firing.

"[Wooten] is is still a trooper," Palin said during the interview. "Commissioner Monegan was replaced because he wasn't reaching the goals that our cabinet members were to reach, find efficiencies, put new vision, new energy into all of our departments."

The McCain-Palin campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The 14-member, Republican-dominated Legislative Council met in closed session this morning with Branchflower. After seven hours of exhaustive review, the legislators voted unanimously to release the report to the public.


more of the story here (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=6004368&page=2)

I haven't read the huge report yet, but this is a body-blow to the already shaky McCain/Palin ticket.

Also The Cat-Tribe likes cats.

I love that they're trying to link this to Obama, too. That Obama -- there's nothing he can't do. He's everywhere, doing and knowing everything. Maybe he's God. :p

He even used his mind-control powers to (1) make the Republican dominated Alaska Legislative Council unanimously approve this investigation and release of this report and (2) make Palin herself make many public statements saying she had nothing to fear from, would cooperate with, and would be exonerated by this investigation.

He must be God.:eek:

Also The Cat-Tribe likes cats.

Yup. :wink:

Still waiting for a worshipper of St. Palin (some of whom I remember assuring us that this investigation was going to clear her or that it would be shut down by the courts) to respond.

He even used his mind-control powers to (1) make the Republican dominated Alaska Legislative Council unanimously approve this investigation and release of this report and (2) make Palin herself make many public statements saying she had nothing to fear from, would cooperate with, and would be exonerated by this investigation.

He must be God.:eek:
We'd better vote for him. *nods*

Like I needed one more reason not to vote for McBush

Like I needed one more reason not to vote for McBush

You mean WcCain? :tongue:

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Public_Safety_Commissioner_dismissal#Intent_to_cooperate), some of Palin's statements about the investigation:


On July 18, Palin said "we would never prohibit, or be less than enthusiastic about any kind of investigation."[129]


On July 21, Palin said that said she welcomed an investigation. "I've said all along, hold me accountable," Palin told reporters.[130]


On July 24, Palin said "I have absolutely nothing to hide … I'm happy to answer any questions between now and when they [the legislature] do conduct an investigation also. … I'm happy to comply, to cooperate. … No problem with an independent investigation."[131]


On July 29, Palin's spokesperson said "the governor has said all along that she will fully cooperate with an investigation and her staff will cooperate as well."[132]


On August 13, an official press release stated "Governor Palin has directed all of her staff to cooperate fully with Branchflower."[133]


On August 29, Palin's attorney wrote to Branchflower: "Please know that we intend to cooperate with this investigation … I would like to review our calendars to schedule depositions of witnesses."[134]


On August 30, the McCain campaign said "Governor Palin is an open book on this -- she did nothing wrong and has nothing to hide. … she has been happy to cooperate fully in the inquiry of this matter. … The legislature and Attorney General are both currently reviewing the circumstances of Walt Monegan’s departure … and the Governor is fully cooperating with those inquiries."[135]


On August 30, the Washington Times reported that Palin knew Branchflower by reputation, and welcomed the investigation: "I know he's a prosecutor, probably a heavy duty prosecutor, and so that kind of puzzles us why we are going down that road when we are very, very open to answering any questions anybody has of me or administrators … But I think this process will bode well for the state of Alaska and our administration, having a review committee of those experts in public safety, in the trooper organization."[69]


On September 4, the Anchorage Daily News noted that Palin had made repeated public statements that she would cooperate, and reported that Palin's attorney had said that hadn't changed.[136]

*is waiting for Palin Apologists to come on here and deny the report*


No, seriously, I got the email as a New York Times updates, and I decided to get drunk out of joy.

Fuck you Palin. You lose. McCain, just quit. Game. Fucking. Over.

Wow, could McCain's sense of timing be any better?

*is waiting for Palin Apologists to come on here and deny the report*


No, seriously, I got the email as a New York Times updates, and I decided to get drunk out of joy.

Fuck you Palin. You lose. McCain, just quit. Game. Fucking. Over.

Congratulations. Your preferred candidate is going to win in an election that really decides nothing.

Congratulations. Your preferred candidate is going to win in an election that really decides nothing.

I thought you had some fundamentals of our system explained to you.

Congratulations. Your preferred candidate is going to win in an election that really decides nothing.

Sour grapes much?

I thought you had some fundamentals of our system explained to you.

The US is becoming irrelevant, and Obama will be there when it happens. He's a wonder president!

Sour grapes much?

Hell yes. I support China now, and I'm the most anti-communist person on Earth.

I thought you had some fundamentals of our system explained to you.

Seems even Moderator suggestions don't get through to him...

You know, all this time I was thinking, "No, it's too much to ask for. There's no way they come out before the election and say Palin abused her power. We couldn't be that lucky."

I've seldom been happier to be wrong.

Big Wop though.....

Even though Palin gets dragged a bit more through the toxic sludge and ooze and becomes a mutant. :P

She doesn't get any punishment for it, probably just a slap on the wrist and a shake of the wagging finger, and a scolding for being a bad girl. She should be fined for this, but more than likely won't.

The US is becoming irrelevant, and Obama will be their when it happens. He's a wonder president!

He'll be their what?

Nothing Palin did or will do will matter, the rank and file against Obama will still go to her rallies.

*is waiting for Palin Apologists to come on here and deny the report*
Because being the devil's advocate is fun, I'll play since they won't:

From the Official Report:
Finding Number One
For the reasons explained in Section IV of this report, I find that governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides:
"The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust"

Finding Number Two
I find that although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads.

Later, from Section IV of the report, page 49, it states:
"The term 'benefit' means anything that is to a person's advantage or self-interest, or from which a person profits, regardless of the financial gain, including any dividend, pension, salary, acquisition, agreement to purchase, transfer of money, deposit, loan or loan guarantee, promise to pay, grant, contract, lease, money, goods, service, privilege, exemption, patronage, advantage advancement, or anything of value; (AS 39.52.960(3)) . . . "gain" includes actual or anticipated gain, benefit, profit, or compensation; (AS 39.52.960(10)) . . . "personal interest" means an interest held or involvement by a public officer, or the officer's immediate family member or parent, including membership, in any organization, whether fraternal, nonprofit, for profit, charitable, or political, from which, or as a result of which, a person or organization receives a benefit; (AS 39.52.960(18)). . . "immediate family member" means

(A) the spouse of the person;

(B) another person cohabiting with the person in a conjugal relationship
that is not a legal marriage;

(C) a child, including a stepchild and an adoptive child, of the person;

(D) a parent, sibling, grandparent, aunt, or uncle of the person; and

(E) a parent or sibling of the person's spouse (AS 39.52.960(11)).

Going further in the report:

9 Alaska Administrative Code 52.020 states: "A public officer may not take or withhold official action on a matter if the action is based on an improper motivation" and finally, 9 Alaska Administrative Code 52.990(4) states that "improper motivation" means a motivation not related to the best interests of the state, and includes giving primary consideration to a person's
A. Kinship or relationship with a public officer;

Now, the allegation is that Monegan was fired because he refused to fire trooper Wooten and the Palin's wanted Wooten fired because of the way he allegedly treated Sarah Palin's sister. There is clearly NO financial interest of the Palin's or a family member involved.

However, if Sarah Palin's firing of Monegan was:
1. "proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority;" and
2. the refusal to fire Trooper Wooten was only "likely a contributing factor" (as opposed to the "main factor" or "only factor" or even a"definite contributing factor.")

Then how can it logically be said that Sarah Palin undertook an "effort to benefit a personal [ ] interest through official action" in violation of AS 39.52.110(a)? The report does NOT say she took "official action on a matter [ ] based on an improper motivation." Only that is is "likely" that an "improper motivation" was a "contributing factor" to a "lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority." How is a "likely improper motivation" an abuse of her power or a violation of the ethical statute referenced? She either abused her power or she didn't. To say she did because an "improper motivation" was "likely a contributing factor" to a "lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority" is contradictory.

An "improper motivation" being a "likely contributing factor" is NOT the same thing as an "improper motivation" be the single, only or main factor upon which the action was based.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Please note again, I am only playing devil's advocate here since the real Palin lovers won't speak up. I'm just giving them a jumping off point to see if they will plunge to their doom or just have a rough landing

I haven't read the huge report yet, but this is a body-blow to the already shaky McCain/Palin ticket.
Not if that one study that shows being provided evidence that proves your side wrong makes you even more inclined to believe your side is correct.

Not if that one study that shows being provided evidence that proves your side wrong makes you even more inclined to believe your side is correct.
This sentence hurts my brain.

Didn't you hear? Palin pre-empted the ethics commision and issued a press release before their report was released 'officially' clearing herself of any wrong-doing.

I guess the logic being that if they say it in a press release, it must be true.

This sentence hurts my brain.Hm... Maybe color coding the parts makes it easier to understand, though perhaps harder to read:
Not if that one study that shows being provided evidence that proves your side wrong makes you even more inclined to believe your side is correct.Maybe I should have added another "is correct" at the end... =P

How is a "likely improper motivation" an abuse of her power or a violation of the ethical statute referenced? She either abused her power or she didn't. To say she did because an "improper motivation" was "likely a contributing factor" to a "lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority" is contradictory.

It becomes unlawful when she uses such power for personal benefit.
In this case, benefit, is not a monetary one, but based on her personal dislike for her ex-brother in law. Thats an abuse of power.


Remember this was an independant investigation, sponsored by a Republican state senate.

Maybe I should have added another "is correct" at the end... =P
What you should have added would be a link to an article discussing said study; like this (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080924-does-ideology-trump-facts-studies-say-it-often-does.html). :p

Because being the devil's advocate is fun, I'll play since they won't:

From the Official Report:
Now, the allegation is that Monegan was fired because he refused to fire trooper Wooten and the Palin's wanted Wooten fired because of the way he allegedly treated Sarah Palin's sister. There is clearly NO financial interest of the Palin's or a family member involved.

However, if Sarah Palin's firing of Monegan was:
1. "proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority;" and
2. the refusal to fire Trooper Wooten was only "likely a contributing factor" (as opposed to the "main factor" or "only factor" or even a"definite contributing factor.")

Then how can it logically be said that Sarah Palin undertook an "effort to benefit a personal [ ] interest through official action" in violation of AS 39.52.110(a)? The report does NOT say she took "official action on a matter [ ] based on an improper motivation." Only that is is "likely" that an "improper motivation" was a "contributing factor" to a "lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority." How is a "likely improper motivation" an abuse of her power or a violation of the ethical statute referenced? She either abused her power or she didn't. To say she did because an "improper motivation" was "likely a contributing factor" to a "lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority" is contradictory.

An "improper motivation" being a "likely contributing factor" is NOT the same thing as an "improper motivation" be the single, only or main factor upon which the action was based.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Please note again, I am only playing devil's advocate here since the real Palin lovers won't speak up. I'm just giving them a jumping off point to see if they will plunge to their doom or just have a rough landing

Um. Your "argument" only works because you (1) skipped over Finding One, (2) skipped over the relevant evidence and analysis regarding Finding One, and (3) confused the evidence supporting Finding Two with that of Finding One. For the record, Finding One was (emphasis added):

Finding Number One
For the reasons explained in Section IV of this report, I find that governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides:
"The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust"

Pages 48-66 of the report explain the bases for Finding One in detail. I'm having trouble copying and pasting from the report, so please ignore typos:

Compliance with the code of ethics is not optional. It is an individual responsibility imposed by law, and any effort to benefit a personal interest through official action is a violation of that trust. As explained above, the term 'benefit' is very broadly defined, and includes anything that is to the person's advantage or personal self-interest. The term "personal interest as used in the Ethics Act means any interest held by the public officer or the public officer's immediate family, including a sibling such as Governor Palin's sister Molly, Molly's children, her father Mr. Health or any other family member. AS 39.52.960(11)

As defined in AS 39.52.960(14), the term "official action" means "advice, participation, or assistance, including, for example, a recommendation, decision, approval, disapproval, vote, or other similar action, including inaction, by a public officer."

The evidence supports the conclusion that Governor Palin, at the least engaged in "official action" by her inaction if not her active participation or assistance to her husband in attempting to get Trooper Wooten fired [and there is evidence of her active participation]. She knowingly ... permitted Todd Palin to use the Governor's office and the resources of the Governor's office ... to continue to contact subordinate employees in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired. Her conduct violated AS 39.52.110(a) of the Ethics Act.

So it is not the firing of Moneghan that was the improper official action, it was the attempts to get Trooper Wooten fired. Any questions?

I am sure a few more nails for McCain coffin are lurking about. Palin was just about the worst choice he could make. Maybe David Duke is available? Then they could whip up the brilliant crowds they have been getting into some sort of race riot, just to cap everything off. Bloody fools.

Remember this was an independant investigation, sponsored by a Republican state senate.

Those Damned Liberals get everywhere.....

Big Wop though.....

Even though Palin gets dragged a bit more through the toxic sludge and ooze and becomes a mutant. :P

She doesn't get any punishment for it, probably just a slap on the wrist and a shake of the wagging finger, and a scolding for being a bad girl. She should be fined for this, but more than likely won't.

Doesn't really matter if she's fined or not. What matters is this is going to cost the McCain/Palin ticket dearly. Several % points worth of support if this was a fair world. But even 1 or 2 would be okay.

btw, Palin isn't a big wop. This is a Big Wop:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/08/news/funny/tim_v_tony/tony_sorpano_no_smile.jpg
though I'd never say that to his face!

I'm not surprised. What will surprise me is if this has a noticeable impact on the polls. I think most people who support Palin/McCain will choose to put their blinders on...

Might turn some undecideds away from leaning McCain though.

I think most people who support Palin/McCain will choose to put their blinders on...
Any right-wing or right-leaning person is claiming the investigation was a partisan smear driven by the Obama campaign because that's what the McCain campaign spokesperson said. Because they arn't biased at all.

So it is not the firing of Moneghan that was the improper official action, it was the attempts to get Trooper Wooten fired. Any questions?

and allowing her husband to use the power of her office to pressure him to fire wooten

which monegan obviously could not do. all the charges were old and had already been dealt with in whatever manner is prescribed by alaskan law. state troopers in alaska have a union. you arent allowed to just fire them willynilly. alll monegan could have done is harass wooten with bad assignments until he quit.

I'm not surprised. What will surprise me is if this has a noticeable impact on the polls. I think most people who support Palin/McCain will choose to put their blinders on....

Its not an issue of blinders. Some things stick, others dont. This whole issue is a huge pile of who cares to a vast majority of Americans including myself. And in full disclosure im probably voting Obama.

*is waiting for Palin Apologists to come on here and deny the report*


No, seriously, I got the email as a New York Times updates, and I decided to get drunk out of joy.

Fuck you Palin. You lose. McCain, just quit. Game. Fucking. Over.
http://www.tacticalshooters.com/Wav/over_johnny.wav

Its not an issue of blinders. Some things stick, others dont. This whole issue is a huge pile of who cares to a vast majority of Americans including myself. And in full disclosure im probably voting Obama.
I heard one pundit -- might have been David Shuster, I kept bouncing between news stations last night -- explain why this is actually relevant.

It serves as a tool with which to neutralize Palin's specific attacks against Obama. She goes on and on "questioning" whether he is trustworthy. This report states specifically that what she did wrong -- the thing she did that violated state law -- was that she "violated the public trust." (And in Alaska, that isn't easy, apparently.)

"Sarah Palin violated the public trust by misuse of the power of her office for personal interest" -- those words are a bludgeon with which to beat her every time she questions whether the public can trust someone else.

It is another tactic against Obama that is now rendered useless because it can do nothing but backfire against those who try to use it.

Its not an issue of blinders. Some things stick, others dont. This whole issue is a huge pile of who cares to a vast majority of Americans including myself. And in full disclosure im probably voting Obama.
for most people the tanking of the economy while mccain and palin pretend it isnt happening is far more important than any wrongdoing on palin's part.

but for those who are a little iffy on obama's background this report gives them more of a reason to discount palin's constant harping on how obama isnt trustworthy.

but for those who are a little iffy on obama's background this report gives them more of a reason to discount palin's constant harping on how obama isnt trustworthy.

Free shots from the VP running mate is pretty much an accepted part of things. If Obama as a Presidential canadate starts debating the VP canadate over whos a better leader then Obamas already lost.

Free shots from the VP running mate is pretty much an accepted part of things. If Obama as a Presidential canadate starts debating the VP canadate over whos a better leader then Obamas already lost.
IF, meet reality. reality, meet IF


thats not what i said.

palin is making constant attacks on obama's character. IF this little problem gets more people to discount the messenger or to even look into the charges being levelled, its a good thing for obama.

Doesn't really matter if she's fined or not. What matters is this is going to cost the McCain/Palin ticket dearly. Several % points worth of support if this was a fair world. But even 1 or 2 would be okay.


Strange that I would be saying this, but it does matter, at least in my mind that this woman is clearly involved in an ethics violation and she should be punished and fined for it. I have this problem with people who think they are above the law or end up not being punished. Even though it will hurt her poltically. I just don't like it that she's not getting fined and punished. If this was anyone else, they would be fined, so why not Sarah Palin?

Strange that I would be saying this, but it does matter, at least in my mind that this woman is clearly involved in an ethics violation and she should be punished and fined for it. I have this problem with people who think they are above the law or end up not being punished. Even though it will hurt her poltically. I just don't like it that she's not getting fined and punished. If this was anyone else, they would be fined, so why not Sarah Palin?
she probably will be next year when the personel board (whose job it is to enforce the rules) meets and issues its own report.

or not since she (i think) nominated a majority of the members to the post.

Big Wop though.....

Even though Palin gets dragged a bit more through the toxic sludge and ooze and becomes a mutant. :P

She doesn't get any punishment for it, probably just a slap on the wrist and a shake of the wagging finger, and a scolding for being a bad girl. She should be fined for this, but more than likely won't.

I think having irrevocably lost the election for her ticket is probably punishment enough.

Strange that I would be saying this, but it does matter, at least in my mind that this woman is clearly involved in an ethics violation and she should be punished and fined for it. I have this problem with people who think they are above the law or end up not being punished. Even though it will hurt her poltically. I just don't like it that she's not getting fined and punished. If this was anyone else, they would be fined, so why not Sarah Palin?
I didn't mean that I don't care whether she gets fined or not. I was merely stating what I feel is the more important thing to come out of this finding: It dragging McCain/Palin down several more % points.
Her getting fined would just be icing on the cake. That is, if she can get fined for what she did (I've no idea how Alaskan law operates in this area).

Its not an issue of blinders. Some things stick, others dont. This whole issue is a huge pile of who cares to a vast majority of Americans including myself. And in full disclosure im probably voting Obama.

A report damning Palin for abuse of power should make the vast majority care, though. I mean, look back on the last 8 years. The signals this woman is sending is not good at all. Actually, it's downright scary...

A report damning Palin for abuse of power should make the vast majority care, though. I mean, look back on the last 8 years. The signals this woman is sending is not good at all. Actually, it's downright scary...It won't sway the faithful one bit. A hick contractor walked into my office a bit ago. The news was on and this story was up. This guys comment was something to the effect of blaming the whole thing on opposition muckraking. When I pointed out that the investigation began well before her getting the nomination he changed the subject. He, like many, has already made up his mind and he won't pay enough attention or give credence to a story such as this to sway his decision.

Although still attacking the Branchflower report as a partisan smear, Palin's camp is trying to claim the report actually proves her innocence.

Report vindicates governor, Palin spokesman says (http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/552515.html)

Gov. Sarah Palin's communications director says investigator Steve Branchflower's report vindicates the governor with a finding that she "acted within her constitutional authority" to remove executive employees who serve at her pleasure.


That is a reference to former public safety commissioner Walt Monegan.

"However," said a statement issued about 6 p.m. by spokesman Bill McAllister, "along with several members of the Legislative Council, we question how Mr. Branchflower reached the conclusion that Governor Palin abused her power with respect to Trooper Mike Wooten."

McAllister's statement says that finding involved speculation on Branchflower's part and assumptions that can't be supported by the evidence before him. The report should be considered "in total rather than relying solely on the findings," McAllister said.

The governor's office also released depositions of seven state employees about internal administration discussions about Wooten.

Read the full statement http://community.adn.com/adn/node/132569


Now it is true that the Report's second Finding is:

I find that, although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads.

But that is only after the first Finding that she abused her power with regards to seeking the firing of Trooper Wooten.

Also, although the report finds no ethical breach or illegal act regarding the firing of Walt Monegan, it does find that Palin has been lying in denying Wooten's situation had anything to do with that firing.

So much for "vindication."

Clearly they are all sexists.

The delicious irony of all of this is that McCain himself didn't necessarily want Palin as his running mate. I'm too lazy to track down citations right now, but I've read several reports that stated McCain wanted Lieberman, or if not Lieberman, then Ridge. He apparently allowed his de facto campaign manager Steve Schmidt to pressure him into choosing Palin on the basis that Lieberman and Ridge were pro-choice and would alienate the conservative base.

In retrospect, he energised the conservative base, but at the cost of turning away all of those independents who've gone over to Obama in droves in the past couple of weeks, and who are unlikely to be impressed by this latest Palin implosion.

As others have pointed out, the impact of Troopergate on those who already think Palin can do no wrong hardly matters; they'll write it off as partisan despite all the evidence. It's the impact on any remaining unconvinced swinging voters, or those who might still be wavering over their commitment to Obama, that matters.

And, again as others have pointed out, I doubt it'll go down well with that demographic.

/snip

So it is not the firing of Moneghan that was the improper official action, it was the attempts to get Trooper Wooten fired. Any questions?
Ah, so you say, but will the Sean Hanities of the world spin it the way I did? You bet they will. However, the liberal pundits will spin it the same way. I would be willing to bet you Neo Art's law license :wink: that BOTH sides will argue in the media the ethical violation relates to the firing of Monegan and NOT the failed attempt to get Wooten fired.

Now, for one more argument for the Palin supporters, Palin was not trying to get Wooten fired for personal reasons. She legitimately felt he was unfit to be a state trooper because he was drinking while driving his patrol car, hunting moose w/o a proper license and out of season, endangering children and all the other things they alleged in their complaints that had nothing to do with the divorce from Palin's sister. The finding she committed an ethical violation by using her office to try and get him fired for personal reasons is just plain wrong.

Now, for one more argument for the Palin supporters, Palin was not trying to get Wooten fired for personal reasons. She legitimately felt he was unfit to be a state trooper because he was drinking while driving his patrol car, hunting moose w/o a proper license and out of season, endangering children and all the other things they alleged in their complaints that had nothing to do with the divorce from Palin's sister. The finding she committed an ethical violation by using her office to try and get him fired for personal reasons is just plain wrong.

Funny how the 12 person panel, 8 of whom are republicans, disagreed with you, huh?

Ah, so you say, but will the Sean Hanities of the world spin it the way I did? You bet they will.

The Sean Hannitys of the world care not one whit for truth, so there is no controlling how they "spin" a story. One can merely point out how they are lying.

However, the liberal pundits will spin it the same way. I would be willing to bet you Neo Art's law license :wink: that BOTH sides will argue in the media the ethical violation relates to the firing of Monegan and NOT the failed attempt to get Wooten fired.

I have no idea what makes you say this. The report is pretty clear that the ethical violation was the attempt to get Wooten fired.

It is true that the report concludes that Palin lied about why she fired Monegan, but why would liberals need to misconstrue that?

Now, for one more argument for the Palin supporters, Palin was not trying to get Wooten fired for personal reasons. She legitimately felt he was unfit to be a state trooper because he was drinking while driving his patrol car, hunting moose w/o a proper license and out of season, endangering children and all the other things they alleged in their complaints that had nothing to do with the divorce from Palin's sister. The finding she committed an ethical violation by using her office to try and get him fired for personal reasons is just plain wrong.

Nice try. If you read the relevant portions of the report, you would find that it specifically addresses and dismisses this argument. Moreover, it doesn't matter what her personal reasons were: they were still personal reasons for seeking the firing of Wooten.

I think a related, more likely line of argument will be that Palin did nothing wrong regarding Wooten because Wooten deserved to be fired. This ignores the facts regarding the investigations of Wooten and doesn't really answer the legal charge against Palin, but it is more likely to persuade those that aren't really paying attention.

The Sean Hannitys of the world care not one whit for truth, so there is no controlling how they "spin" a story. One can merely point out how they are lying. No disagreement on that.

I have no idea what makes you say this. The report is pretty clear that the ethical violation was the attempt to get Wooten fired.I know and understand that. I just expect that the Sean Hanities of the liberal world will spin it the way I laid out - again, the only thing to do is point out how wrong they are and hope some people are actually paying attention.

It is true that the report concludes that Palin lied about why she fired Monegan, but why would liberals need to misconstrue that?They won't misconstrue it, they'll take it further than it goes.


Nice try. If you read the relevant portions of the report, you would find that it specifically addresses and dismisses this argument. Moreover, it doesn't matter what her personal reasons were: they were still personal reasons for seeking the firing of Wooten.I, personally, don't disagree, I was just making an argument for the Palin supporters who are apparently unable or unwilling to defend her themselves here after much blustering.

I think a related, more likely line of argument will be that Palin did nothing wrong regarding Wooten because Wooten deserved to be fired. This ignores the facts regarding the investigations of Wooten and doesn't really answer the legal charge against Palin, but it is more likely to persuade those that aren't really paying attention.This is very possibly the more likely scenario. I do look forward to listening to pundits next week.

If ya don't like the message, try to smear the messenger:

ARLINGTON, VA — McCain-Palin 2008 spokeswoman Meg Stapleton issued the following statement on today’s release of Stephen Branchflower’s report:

“Today’s report shows that the Governor acted within her proper and lawful authority in the reassignment of Walt Monegan. The report also illustrates what we’ve known all along: this was a partisan led inquiry run by Obama supporters and the Palins were completely justified in their concern regarding Trooper Wooten given his violent and rogue behavior. Lacking evidence to support the original Monegan allegation, the Legislative Council seriously overreached, making a tortured argument to find fault without basis in law or fact. The Governor is looking forward to cooperating with the Personnel Board and continuing her conversation with the American people regarding the important issues facing the country.”

link (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/10/mccain-palin-camp-responds-to-alaska-panel-finding/)

How's that for a pithy rebuttal to hundreds of pages of incriminating evidence?Great. MORE time with a cabal who doesn't even acknowledge the obvious.

Yup. :wink:

Still waiting for a worshipper of St. Palin (some of whom I remember assuring us that this investigation was going to clear her or that it would be shut down by the courts) to respond.Deep Kimchi/Whispering Legs/Remote Observer/Hotwife?
They'll mutter what the Brits uttered about the Downing Street Memos ...
"Eh, it's old news."

I thought you had some fundamentals of our system explained to you.Doesn't mean they were listening or taking notes. *shrug*

This sentence hurts my brain....and it's politics ... who'da thunkit?
These kinds of things usually have an element of pain to them, don't they?
Especially people rationalizing/justifying their insanity through a group platform?

Didn't you hear? Palin pre-empted the ethics commision and issued a press release before their report was released 'officially' clearing herself of any wrong-doing.

I guess the logic being that if they say it in a press release, it must be true.She did that because, in the end, if everyone would've gone along with it, the manner and results of the investigation would have been dealt with differently. Perhaps with some influence. She did eventually not cooperate with anyone else, after that.

For what it's worth, I found this from an online newspaper:
Under Alaska law, it is up to the state's Personnel Board, not the Legislature, to decide whether Palin violated the ethics laws. If so, it must refer the matter to the Senate president for disciplinary action. Violations also carry a possible fine of up to US$5000.
The Alaskan State Personnel Board is a 3 person board: One of whom Palin appointed and another who donated $400 to her governor election campaign. Further Palin, as governor, can fire and hire as she pleases.
Thus the chances of the ASP Board deciding to discipline or fine her is rather remote.
And of course their decision not to will be seen as vindication for Palin. I fully expect to see the case hurriedly brought to the Board before November.

Where in Alaska is the Troopergate hotel?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1849399-1,00.html

Ouch. So not only were they unethical, but they suck at politics. Who'd have thunk?

A harsh verdict? Consider the report's findings. Not only did people at almost every level of the Palin administration engage in repeated inappropriate contact with Walt Monegan and other high-ranking officials at the Department of Public Safety, but Monegan and his peers constantly warned these Palin disciples that the contact was inappropriate and probably unlawful. Still, the emails and calls continued — in at least one instance on recorded state trooper phone lines.

Dude, seriously, I take back what I said about her being savvy. She's not. The lights are on, but no one is home. Her whole family, her whole administration, is apparently out to lunch.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1849399-1,00.html

Ouch. So not only were they unethical, but they suck at politics. Who'd have thunk?

A harsh verdict? Consider the report's findings. Not only did people at almost every level of the Palin administration engage in repeated inappropriate contact with Walt Monegan and other high-ranking officials at the Department of Public Safety, but Monegan and his peers constantly warned these Palin disciples that the contact was inappropriate and probably unlawful. Still, the emails and calls continued — in at least one instance on recorded state trooper phone lines.

Dude, seriously, I take back what I said about her being savvy. She's not. The lights are on, but no one is home. Her whole family, her whole administration, is apparently out to lunch.

Tina Fey was being kind. Let that be a warning.

For what it's worth, I found this from an online newspaper:

The Alaskan State Personnel Board is a 3 person board: One of whom Palin appointed and another who donated $400 to her governor election campaign. Further Palin, as governor, can fire and hire as she pleases.
Thus the chances of the ASP Board deciding to discipline or fine her is rather remote.
And of course their decision not to will be seen as vindication for Palin. I fully expect to see the case hurriedly brought to the Board before November.It is already before the board, it has been there for quite some time. Palin's husband is supposed to be speaking to them next week and they have already said they will not being issuing their findings before the Nov. Election.

It doesn't matter what 'penalty" they give her. Voters now know that she can be a vindictive and ruthless bully. But will it change any voters' minds. Maybe some. But hardened Republicans may simply see it as proof that she's made of the right stuff and Democrats will see her for the power-crazed politician she is.

She may lose some traction. For a moral majority type she's not very "Christian" huh?

There's too much to quote here (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1849399,00.html), it's just too much. Warning, reading it will cause Fish Mouth, opening and closing in utter disbelief.

This is what should stick-
But even though she won't likely face any legal repercussions, the amateurism and cronyism of her brief administration hardly leaves Palin sitting pretty. Troopergate's final verdict may be even more damaging than a rebuke: her administration was, at least this regard, just as self-motivated as the Washington fat cats and lobbyists she hopes to unseat.

There's too much to quote here (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1849399,00.html), it's just too much. Warning, reading it will cause Fish Mouth, opening and closing in utter disbelief.

This is what should stick-

Hehe. You're late, bitch.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14092980&postcount=75

Palin is stupid, plain and simple, nothing new here

Sarah Palin scares me. *nod*

Sarah Palin scares me. *nod*

You're a caribou?

Sarah Palin scares me. *nod*

Well it's almost Halloween. Were suppose to be scared. They should make a movie with Sara Palin as president and in a summit meeting with world leaders. Such horror would put Freddie, Michael, Jason, Jigsaw and Carrot Top to shame!
:eek:

Well it's almost Halloween. Were suppose to be scared. They should make a movie with Sara Palin as president and in a summit meeting with world leaders. Such horror would put Freddie, Michael, Jason, Jigsaw and Carrot Top to shame!
:eek:

And Tina Fey's career skyrockets even as the rest of the world burns. :D

You're a caribou?

If Caribou are scared of American women, like Palin, with power, then yes, I am one... *nod*

Well it's almost Halloween. Were suppose to be scared. They should make a movie with Sara Palin as president and in a summit meeting with world leaders. Such horror would put Freddie, Michael, Jason, Jigsaw and Carrot Top to shame!
:eek:

Open with...a cold dark horizon, overlooking a vast, bleak tundra...close in on a small military base, white-masked troopers standing guard...

Narrator: In a world on the edge of the end...

Cut to: Inside, world leaders are sitting around a table, arguing in various exotic languages, fists pounding tables...

Narrator: Only one woman....can save us all...

Cut to: Door is kicked open, Tina Fey enters with a .300 Winmag bolt-action rifle, wearing a safety orange cap and half a Slim Jim hanging out of her mouth...

Fey: "Gentlefellas, we have a resource problem...and as the leader of the free world, I'm about to reduce demand" (operations bolt on gun and takes aim) "Don't forget to put your antlers on!"

Cut to: World leaders burst out of room, scampering off into the wilderness, as Palin boards a helicopter, hangs out the side gunning them down...


Narrator: This summer, Tina Fey is....Sarah Palin in...."Air Force One 2: Death From Above..

With John Lithgow as Putin ("I thought the women in my country were crazy bitches!").....

Carlos Mencia as Hugo Chavez ("Heleecoptors? Are joo fucking keeding me?")....

The guy who they computerized to make Gollum from Lord of the Rings as Iranian President Amamadidniiniijijjninad ("This is what happens when women are in power! Do you people believe me now?")...

Directed by Quentin Tarantino and one of the Coen brothers...from the producers of "On Golden Pond"...

Air Force One 2......this time...its ill advised.

Hehe. You're late, bitch.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14092980&postcount=75
Eh...I actually thought, "Someone must have linked this already, I should check" then I thought, "I'm going back to sleep, who cares..."
Well it's almost Halloween. Were suppose to be scared. They should make a movie with Sara Palin as president and in a summit meeting with world leaders. Such horror would put Freddie, Michael, Jason, Jigsaw and Carrot Top to shame!
:eek:
Speaking of things people already linked (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1831461)...not a horror film, just horrifying...

Narrator: In a world on the edge of the end...

R.I.P. Don Lafontaine.

Fey: "Gentlefellas, we have a resource problem...and as the leader of the free world, I'm about to reduce demand" (operations bolt on gun and takes aim) "Don't forget to put your antlers on!"

Cut to: World leaders burst out of room, scampering off into the wilderness, as Palin boards a helicopter, hangs out the side gunning them down...

Somehow this seems plausible. That's scary.

With John Lithgow as Putin ("I thought the women in my country were crazy bitches!").....

I could see that.

("Heleecoptors? Are joo fucking keeding me?")....

Classic line.

The guy who they computerized to make Gollum from Lord of the Rings as Iranian President Amamadidniiniijijjninad ("This is what happens when women are in power! Do you people believe me now?")...

Andy Serkis

Air Force One 2......this time...its ill advised.

Amen.

"Doggone it! All I was trying to do was to get Corporate Joe Six-Packs some money, crash the US economy completely and invade Russia, or Iran, or Pakistan, or India, or China, doggone it fuck geography! What that's country next to Iraq called, the one that has no hockey moms? Spain right? Doggone it!"

I love this thread. As for those saying that it's irrelevant, I think not! Imagine a moose ass-r*p*ng Palin. Can there be too much of that?

1. http://exiledonline.com/tag/palin/
2. http://exiledonline.com/sarah-palins-rigged-redemption/
3. http://exiledonline.com/apocalypse-palin/

Ok, I'll stop...meh, who am I kidding.

4. http://exiledonline.com/photo-rant-sarah-palin-the-other-manchurian-candidate/

If you don't want to read all links, at least click on the first one. It's worth it!