NationStates Jolt Archive

It looks like a country may be on the brink of a 'National Bankruptcy'. That oft cited example of a homogenous paradise, Iceland, is in big trouble it seems. It's currency has halved in value and it's financial system is on the brink of collapse. They've nationalized the banks in an attempt to stem the bleeding. This will reach far beyond their shores if some of their big banks collapse. Anyone else been following this?

Looks like the Kroener...it is teh Kroener there, right?...is finished.

They're going to have to switch to one of the big currencies soon, probably the Euro.

Yep. Looks like everything's going as expected.

You forgot Pakistan

Let me say this. I know I shouldn't, but...

If everything goes as expected, this will start to reverse. Just at the point there looks to be hope, a VERY massive company will go under. We're talking in a way that would make Enron look small. That should be the deathblow for the economy for awhile, as corporation after corporation topples and entire banking systems and currencies virtually vanish.

Wanna take bets?

I am happy to take it off their hands for a few puffins.

Also, California is on the brink of ruin. They're about $7 billion short on account of not being able to get any credit.

Pakistan, and Iceland...BOTH going bankrupt. Yay!


Revelation 6:5 - 6:6 - “And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.’”

Pakistan, and Iceland...BOTH going bankrupt. Yay!


Revelation 6:5 - 6:6 - “And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.’”

You sound like you think this is a good thing.

You sound like you think this is a good thing.


Not at all. I don't like any destruction or suffering for people. The yay! was sarcastic.

Revelation 6:5 - 6:6 - “And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.’”

That should be a denarius - about a day's wage in that time.

Let me say this. I know I shouldn't, but...

If everything goes as expected, this will start to reverse. Just at the point there looks to be hope, a VERY massive company will go under. We're talking in a way that would make Enron look small. That should be the deathblow for the economy for awhile, as corporation after corporation topples and entire banking systems and currencies virtually vanish.

Wanna take bets?
I bet against it. Of course, we will get a crisis and maybe Iceland will emulate Argentina, but I believe capitalism will survive the crises strengthened.

Revelation 6:5 - 6:6 - “And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.’”

See, that's sort of irrelevant.

Wait till Denmark goes.

And of course, Ireland and Switzerland have the same problems, but in a more limited fashion.

I'm not too concerned. I don't understand the 1929 crash, I don't understand this one, and we'll survive both.

At the end of the day the world will still turn and the sun will still rise tomorrow. I'm sure that the hungry families in Africa won't be too concerned about credit crunches and banks closing in Iceland. Maybe the super-rich won't be as super-rich as they once were but the loss of an American insurance company or two won't keep me awake tonight

Also, California is on the brink of ruin. They're about $7 billion short on account of not being able to get any credit.

California is not on the brink of ruin. They are simply having problems getting short term bridge loans till they receive their January tax receipts. Its a serious short term concern but not at all an issue of a State going Bankrupt. There is a huge difference between not having cash on hand and being bankrupt.

I'm still not bothered - i'm enjoying the good times while they last. :)

One thing that worried me (and I'm not entirely sure if this relates to the financial crisis, so bear with me) is that Australians have fourteen million credit cards and owe something like forty-four billion dollars. WTF is going on there?

At the end of the day the world will still turn and the sun will still rise tomorrow. I'm sure that the hungry families in Africa won't be too concerned about credit crunches and banks closing in Iceland. Maybe the super-rich won't be as super-rich as they once were but the loss of an American insurance company or two won't keep me awake tonight

Unless you happen to be one of the millions of hard working blue collar people that have paid into life insurance funds and have hundreds of thousands of value in it and have it just up and disapear. Or have had everything you own burn up in a fire and your hurt and helpless and the insurance company just evaporates on you? Or innocent people maimed or killed in a car wreck that are suddenly unprotected?

the 1929 crash was the great depression, it was one of the worst things that has hapened to the north american economy, we were in a reccession for like 9 years

not so high and mighty on top of the HDI now are ya Mr Iceland :p

though it looks like Iceland banking system just fell down which (much like a Van Damme film) is more "big deal I won't remember this in 5 years"

I'm still not bothered - i'm enjoying the good times while they last. :)

jokes on you, I'm going to sit in a rundown bar getting hammered on bloody Mary soup

jokes on you, I'm going to sit in a rundown bar getting hammered on bloody Mary soup

Whatever floats your boat.

One thing that worried me (and I'm not entirely sure if this relates to the financial crisis, so bear with me) is that Australians have fourteen million credit cards and owe something like forty-four billion dollars. WTF is going on there?

well inflation is going up so those debts are going down in value all the time :)

the 1929 crash was the great depression, it was one of the worst things that has hapened to the north american economy, we were in a reccession for like 9 years

bah people are still putting money into the market or at least keeping it their rather than running across America with their mentally handicapped friends petting rabbit

California is not on the brink of ruin. They are simply having problems getting short term bridge loans till they receive their January tax receipts. Its a serious short term concern but not at all an issue of a State going Bankrupt. There is a huge difference between not having cash on hand and being bankrupt.There is? I could swear "bankrupt" is another term for "not having cash on hand and owing money".

It looks like a country may be on the brink of a 'National Bankruptcy'. That oft cited example of a homogenous paradise, Iceland, is in big trouble it seems. It's currency has halved in value and it's financial system is on the brink of collapse. They've nationalized the banks in an attempt to stem the bleeding. This will reach far beyond their shores if some of their big banks collapse. Anyone else been following this?

The country has already collapsed. The fallen Landsbanki offered savings acounts in several European countries, most notable France, the UK, Germany and the Netherlands. Due to agreements, the state of Iceland is obligated to reimburse those people - but it cannot. The country with only about 300.000 inhabitants simply does not have the funds available.

Hell, Iceland reimbursing the Netherlands alone would create an even bigger debt/citizen than the USA currently has - and the USA has vastly more collateral...

They could export that delicious rotten shark meat they make. That would pay back the money.

I think I will go there for a vacation. But not until after the riotey business they are going to have.

Though U have to remember that it wasn't the stock market collapse that caused the great depression. Things like that happen all the time, it is of no moment.

You'd think the US would be "bankrupted" by now. what is it now, 10 trillion in the hole!!!!! :o
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

You'd think the US would be "bankrupted" by now. what is it now, 10 trillion in the hole!!!!! :o
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

bah you have good credit and if worse comes to worse plenty of nifty things to sell (much like Russians giving tanks to South Korea)

There is? I could swear "bankrupt" is another term for "not having cash on hand and owing money".

Then you would be incorrect.

Also, California is on the brink of ruin. They're about $7 billion short on account of not being able to get any credit.

This worries me. I don't live in California anymore, but I've retired from the University of California and the State of California has it's hands in managing my retirement funds. I'm concerned that if things get bad enough, they're going to start tapping those funds.

I'm not worried. I'll just move into the forest behind my house, become a hermit wear deer skins and live off of squirrel meat.

i blame the y2k

Pakistan, and Iceland...BOTH going bankrupt. Yay!


Revelation 6:5 - 6:6 - “And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.’”

See... this is why America needs more monasteries.

That oft cited example of a homogenous paradise, Iceland, is in big trouble it seems...This will reach far beyond their shores if some of their big banks collapse.
It already has, in some respect:

Lost in Iceland: £1 billion from councils, charities and police (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/10/banking-iceland)

• More than 100 public bodies had money in collapsed banks
• Brown accuses Icelandic authorities of acting illegally

Gordon Brown last night branded Iceland's failure to guarantee British savings in its failed banks as "totally unacceptable and illegal", amid warnings that more than 100 local councils, police authorities and fire services have up to £1bn lost in its bankrupted system.

Charities, including children's hospices, warned they were at risk of losing £25m.

In unusually aggressive terms, the prime minister said he was willing to use anti-terrorism legislation to freeze the assets of other Icelandic companies operating in Britain in an effort to recoup the lost money. The extent of the potential difficulties for councils and other bodies began to emerge yesterday as more and more said they had invested money in Iceland's high-yielding savers' accounts.

By yesterday evening, the Local Government Association (LGA) had accumulated reports showing that 108 councils in England, Scotland and Wales had deposited £798.95m in Icelandic banks.

With no sign of Iceland being able to repay the money and councils lobbying ministers for reassurance that the cash would be recovered, Britain went on the offensive. "What happened in Iceland is completely unacceptable," said Brown. "I've spoken to the Icelandic prime minister, I have told him this is effectively an illegal action that they have taken. We are freezing the assets of Icelandic companies in the UK where we can. We will take further action against the Icelandic authorities where necessary to recover the money

Also, in a rather novel use of legislation:

The British government invoked the Anti-Terrorism Crime and Security Act 2001 to freeze the British assets of Landsbanki, something for which Brown refused to apologise, saying he had a responsibility to recover the assets in the most effective way possible.

Referring to the move, Haarde said: "I told the chancellor that we consider this to be a completely unfriendly act."

Asked if the financial crisis engulfing Iceland had become a diplomatic crisis with Britain, Haarde added: "I thought so for a few minutes this morning when I realised that a terrorist law was being applied against us. That was not very pleasant. I'm afraid not many governments would have taken that very kindly, to be put into that category."

Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/10/banking-iceland).

The British government invoked the Anti-Terrorism Crime and Security Act 2001 to freeze the British assets of Landsbanki, something for which Brown refused to apologise, saying he had a responsibility to recover the assets in the most effective way possible.

Wait - did ING not already obtain those assets ?

Pakistan, and Iceland...BOTH going bankrupt. Yay!


Revelation 6:5 - 6:6 - “And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.’”

The last thing we need is the fundimentalists who half control government as it is deciding to let this crisis proceed as a fulfilment of prophecy.

See... this is why America needs more monasteries.Vote Palin?

See, that's sort of irrelevant.But very Revelant. :rolleyes:

i blame the y2k
Goddamn global collapses are all the same, aren't they? They never know how to make a deadline.

Pakistan, and Iceland...BOTH going bankrupt. Yay!


Revelation 6:5 - 6:6 - “And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.’”

Yes, because having everyone get screwed over, out of money, and out of job is a very good thing. *roll eyes*

Personally I'm hoping our end time is more like Ragnarök (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k)

i blame the y2k

I blame Ruffy.

Yes, because having everyone get screwed over, out of money, and out of job is a very good thing. *roll eyes*

Lolz not reading part where he says that it was sarcasm. *roll eyes*

Yes, because having everyone get screwed over, out of money, and out of job is a very good thing. *roll eyes*

Personally I'm hoping our end time is more like Ragnarök (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k)

Brothers will fight
and kill each other,
sisters' children
will defile kinship.
It is harsh in the world,
whoredom rife
—an axe age, a sword age
—shields are riven—
a wind age, a wolf age—
before the world goes headlong.
No man will have
mercy on another.[11]

Bah, how to get depressed. And I'm finishing up my PhD this year and going on the job market... assuming there's going to be one to go on. Research funding is often one of the first things cut when belt's start tightening.

Bah, how to get depressed. And I'm finishing up my PhD this year and going on the job market... assuming there's going to be one to go on. Research funding is often one of the first things cut when belt's start tightening.

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd092908s.gif

-snip-
Sweet, I'm going to an investment bank!

snip

Lol... well I'm working to line up a post-doc/other academic position this year and do plan to stay in the comfortable cocoon of academia :D

The trouble comes in that there are a small number of positions and a LOT of people going for them.

I feel sorry for the people outside Australasia. The banks in NZ and Australia are pretty stable and have recorded a big surplus.

But very Revelant. :rolleyes:

he he

*bows*

I feel sorry for the people outside Australasia. The banks in NZ and Australia are pretty stable and have recorded a big surplus.

crikey!

Luckily bankruptcy isn't impacting the people responsible....

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/08/politicians.meltdown.aig.ap/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Days after it got a federal bailout, American International Group Inc. spent $440,000 on a posh California retreat for its executives, complete with spa treatments, banquets and golf outings, according to lawmakers investigating the company's meltdown.


Responsipble corporate policies and rational economy my ass... :D

The country has already collapsed. The fallen Landsbanki offered savings acounts in several European countries, most notable France, the UK, Germany and the Netherlands. Due to agreements, the state of Iceland is obligated to reimburse those people - but it cannot. The country with only about 300.000 inhabitants simply does not have the funds available.

Hell, Iceland reimbursing the Netherlands alone would create an even bigger debt/citizen than the USA currently has - and the USA has vastly more collateral...
It would give us an excuse to invade Iceland, an even better one then the US had with its 'war on terror'.

It would give us an excuse to invade Iceland, an even better one then the US had with its 'war on terror'.

But does Iceland have anything we want ?

But does Iceland have anything we want ?

Strategic location middle of the Atlantic.

Strategic location middle of the Atlantic.

Hmm. Not THAT good, but at least something.

Of course, we could always turn it into a penal colony. Geert Wilders would like that.

But does Iceland have anything we want ?
Iceland is part of Scandinavia, Scandinavia has hot blonde women, ergo; Iceland has hot blonde women. And it's got that funky lobster shaped peninsula, that's awesome to have.

this is LoL and relevant
http://www.anapologyfromicelanders.blogspot.com/

Iceland is part of Scandinavia, Scandinavia has hot blonde women, ergo; Iceland has hot blonde women. And it's got that funky lobster shaped peninsula, that's awesome to have.

Wrong Scandinavia means on the Scandinavian peninsula including Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Iceland is a Nordic country. Which is similar but not the same thing.

Wrong Scandinavia means on the Scandinavian peninsula including Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Iceland is a Nordic country. Which is similar but not the same thing.Wrong, just read the Wiki page about Scandinavia.

We all know the Wiki never lies.

I feel sorry for the people outside Australasia. The banks in NZ and Australia are pretty stable and have recorded a big surplus.



I take it you missed the bit where the NAB wrote down AUD$30B or so a few months back as part of this.

Granted they just wrote it off and don't expect to reclaim it - and don't care so much anymore ... but...

(at least i believe this is what has happened).

correction 27 Billion from two banks - ANZ and NAB

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/aug2008/econ-a04.shtml

Most of this is panic. If the bankers and day traders had half a brain and a little bit of backbone they would keep cool, sell only what they need to and get it together. Things will work out. It may take twenty years and/or a world war but a little patience will pay off in the very long run.
It would have helped if we had a President who didn't hit the panic button and use fear to motivate people to action. This is another reason why I think Obama is the right guy. He is as cool as can be and he is smart enough to know that he can't know everything. Thus he will find people who know their stuff and take action. Definitely the right guy for a bad situation.

If the worst comes I have a backup plan = Shotgun, plenty of buckshot, canned goods, hand tools, a bunch of medical supplies, a source of water, a solid stone house on high ground, good lines of sight and the experience, skills and training to make anything from a three legged stool to all the components to assemble a generator. I can even do mathematics without a calculator (Considering the state of our public schools in the mid eighties this is a feat.) Wiith a few good friends and neighbors to cover my back and help out I am set. :)

Either way it will all work out eventually.

I feel sorry for the people outside Australasia. The banks in NZ and Australia are pretty stable and have recorded a big surplus.

Oh god, this doesn't mean more immigrants, does it? The trains are completely packed as it is.

The trains are packed because of petrol prices, not immigrants (unless 2m people suddenly emigrated to Aus).

Latest update on this story, Iceland has just been listed on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Iceland-Predator-Country_W0QQitemZ320309633199QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320309633199&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)....

Of course it can't be shipped to you and Bjork isn't included.

Latest update on this story, Iceland has just been listed on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Iceland-Predator-Country_W0QQitemZ320309633199QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320309633199&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)....

Of course it can't be shipped to you and Bjork isn't included.

i think Russia hit the Buy now option. in other news the mideast is saving the US by buying treasury bonds whenever China and japan stop. http://www.oftwominds.com/blogmar06/whos-buying-bonds.html

I guess I can get use to Islam. Christian fundies and Muslims fundies are not that different are they ?

Most of this is panic. If the bankers and day traders had half a brain and a little bit of backbone they would keep cool, sell only what they need to and get it together. Things will work out. It may take twenty years and/or a world war but a little patience will pay off in the very long run.
Day traders can't have patience, it's not what they get paid for. And besides, a lot of the selling off in this past week came from hedge funds, who had a combination of margin calls and redemptions hit them. That forced them to dump shares pretty much regardless of price. And when the shorting ban was binned at the same time, they started to try and make some money from this process (but that's not panicking, it's quite calculated).

Meanwhile, the spat between Britain and Iceland continues. The background is that Iceland, facing liabilities much bigger than anything the government can pay, tried to get all the assets Icelandic banks had overseas home. Those unfortunately include a lot of money British people (and government agencies) had with local branches. So in order to stop the money from leaving for Iceland, the UK used anti-terror laws to freeze the money in place. People are offended all over.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7665683.stm

Well.. Iceland is going to pay the Dutchies back.
Guess where they will get the money ?
Yep - borrow it from the Dutch ;)

Well all that cash tied up in collapsed Icelandic banks, us brits will be sure of one thing

Our property taxes will go up 25% instead of 15% to cover the loss:eek:


Boris


The revolution is coming.... and first against the wall are always the politicians and the lawyers......... and seeing as our politicians are lawyers, that will be a great saving in ammunition :p