NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean the term has been stigmatized by the conservatives, Define it for me. Is it mean mildly social democrat anymore?

In America, open-mindedness and socialist approaches have been so demonized and stigmatized that only there can a positive word like "liberal" be taken as a vile insult.

I mean the term has been stigmatized by the conservatives, Define it for me. Is it mean mildly social democrat anymore?

A liberal is someone a conservative disagrees with. A conservative is someone that a liberal disagrees with.

Now that that's settled, I will now have a muffin. *munches on a muffin*

Now that that's settled, I will now have a muffin. *munches on a muffin*

*Pictures a Taco-Maker walking in on LG and a muffin baker going at it together. Cue dramatic music.*

A liberal is someone a conservative disagrees with. A conservative is someone that a liberal disagrees with.

Now that that's settled, I will now have a muffin. *munches on a muffin*

what kind?

A liberal is someone a conservative disagrees with. A conservative is someone that a liberal disagrees with.

Now that that's settled, I will now have a muffin. *munches on a muffin**stealz the muffin*

Neo-liberal is an insult in europe too.

In any event, most american liberals aren't liberals.

back to the discussion please

what kind?

My specialty, lemon with chocolate chips.

*stealz the muffin*

*produces another muffin*

*Pictures a Taco-Maker walking in on LG and a muffin baker going at it together. Cue dramatic music.*

A man cannot live by tacos alone.

back to the discussion please

There was a discussion? Well, then let's discuss. What do YOU think a liberal is?

*produces another muffin**Gives LG a thousand tireless demon bakers to bake any type of muffin that he wants.*

My specialty, lemon with chocolate chips.

hm...never tried. I tend to swing towards standard blueberry from Dunkin (how liberal of me)...


I do, however, like my muffin well buttered.

I've come up with two definitions:
1. A person who wants a bigger government to serve the populous in more ways than a smaller government. This is a double-edged sword. A bigger government can provide more services, but it can also become more corrupted and inefficient.

2. A person who wants bigger and/or more numerous changes in the government and/or society.

Of course, there are many different definitions.

hm...never tried. I tend to swing towards standard blueberry from Dunkin (how liberal of me)...


I do, however, like my muffin well buttered.

Lemon and chocolate go together like laughter and orgasms. *nod*

*produces another muffin*If you have an endless supply of those muffins, I'm moving in. :)

Lemon and chocolate go together like laughter and orgasms. *nod*

like fingers up the nose and sex? I'll take it.

If you have an endless supply of those muffins, I'm moving in. :)

Well not endless, but I tend to bake em by the dozen because the pan has enough indentations for twelve. :)

Edit: *Gives LG a thousand tireless demon bakers to bake any type of muffin that he wants.*

Then again, maybe I DO have a limitless supply. :)

I never said you get to keep them forever did I?:p

I mean the term has been stigmatized by the conservatives, Define it for me. Is it mean mildly social democrat anymore?

A liberal is a person who identifies with and stands for the positions of political liberalism. Political liberalism has a varied definition depending on geography and time, but it generally includes a few key elements. First, by virtue of their nature, man singular and men plural have a certain defined character, principle among them the ability and right to self-determination. Second, governments are instituted so as to, as much as possible, protect and promote the self-determining ability of its citizens. Third, democracy, however constituted, has practically demonstrated to be the best means by which governments ensure that they are protecting and promoting the self-determination of their citizens.

Now, it should be noted that to a very great extent, each of those three ideological theses are shared by American liberals and American conservatives. Both are in fact part of the little-l liberal tradition. While there are some questions about what self-determination is, how government best protects such determination, and how we accurately define democracy, the fight between liberalism and conservatism does not take the same character as does the European liberal/conservative split, which often argued between democracy and monarchy, the degree to which we could or should make government respect self-determination, and whether or not self-determination was a possibility in every man or only the elect.

Instead, liberals and conservatives in America dispute an additional fourth element added in after the Industrial Revolution: Part of protecting the self-determining ability of a citizen involves regulating the economic and social forces within society to prevent his self-determination from being overridden by survival or meme-driven behavior. Liberals generally accept that this is true, that we must regulate the economy and/or social forces (lest you think that social forces are only an issue on the right, the entire civil rights movement was an attempt to use government force to retard the social acceptance of racial discrimination). Conservatives are usually quite a bit more skeptical, if not hostile, to that idea.

Well not endless, but I tend to bake em by the dozen because the pan has enough indentations for twelve. :)

Edit:

Then again, maybe I DO have a limitless supply. :)I'm moving in! :)

I never said you get to keep them forever did I?:pI'll invent robots to make them for him. :)

Liberal can take on two classifications: one is a moderate form of leftism or communitarian populism while the second, which is where left/right get their roots is tradition v. freedom in the pre-revolutionary French government. So libertarians are often called classical liberals however the left demonizes them as members of the right. The terminology gets confusing after a while, especially if you start thinking of politics in three dimensions such as nationstates or the Vosem chart. NS designations for me range ny times democracy to liberal democratic socialists while vosem chart classifys me as socialist/liberal or totalitarian- depending on my mood concerning social permissiveness. I am pro-democracy and states' rights while opposed to corporate welfare and concentration of power. I am also a social democrat and happen to lean as a communitarian. Thus I support universal healthcare, gay rights (within the limits allowed by their communities of faith), gun control, more censoring of violent matter in the media, banning tabloids, gender equality, opposed to race-based affirmative action (not necessarily class-based though), a foreign policy of NEUTRALITY- has anyone forgotten that concept!!!! Also I believe in strengthening the anti-trust laws and "whistle-blower" protection laws, among other positions including abolishment of patents and the electoral college.

STFU You Liberosexual!!

STFU You Liberosexual!!GTFO, Commie! :rolleyes:

STFU You Liberosexual!!

GTFO, Commie! :rolleyes:

If you want to have dirty sex, have sex with a liberal because they are afraid of nothing.

If you want to have really dirty sex, have sex with a conservative because they're afraid of getting caught and desperate sex is the best kind. :)

If you want to have dirty sex, have sex with a liberal because they are afraid of nothing.

If you want to have really dirty sex, have sex with a conservative because they're afraid of getting caught and desperate sex is the best kind. :)Fine, I'll sleep with you. :p

Fine, I'll sleep with you. :p

Can my wife watch?

Can my wife watch?Absolutely. She won't even have to pay like all the others.
Gotta make money somehow, these days. :)

Absolutely. She won't even have to pay like all the others.
Gotta make money somehow, these days. :)

This is just another example of why I'll never be President. ;)

This is just another example of why I'll never be President. ;)But you can still be the Pope! Wait, shouldn't have said that. Somebody hide me before the enraged Catholics hurt me! (Yes, Gauntleted Fist, the Deluxe edition (Currently $4.50!) has jokes, as well!)

But you can still be the Pope! Wait, shouldn't have said that. Somebody hide me before the enraged Catholics hurt me! (Yes, Gauntleted Fist, the Deluxe edition (Currently $4.50!) has jokes, as well!)

Unfortunately no, my wife is not an eight year old boy. :(

*runs while the Catholics try to decide which one of us to chase*

GTFO, Commie! :rolleyes:

Liber-off you dirty Libby Liberal!

Unfortunately no, my wife is not an eight year old boy. :(

*runs while the Catholics try to decide which one of us to chase**flees with utmost haste, because "running" sounds too much like giving up*

Liber-off you dirty Libby Liberal!I take offense at that, sir/madam! I am not one of those things! :eek:

I take offense at that, sir/madam! I am not one of those things! :eek:

That's exactly what a Liberal would say!

That's exactly what a Liberal would say!And that's exactly what a Commie spy would say!

Lemon and chocolate go together like laughter and orgasms. *nod*

The latter is actually a good combo...

well, in the only simple sense that makes any sense to me, libral means putting what you percieve as morality ahead of what you percieve as tradition, and conservative meaning the reverse, putting what you perceive as tradition ahead of what you percieve as morality.

(perceiving morality and tradition as being one and the same, with one possible exception, equals being an idiot. that one possible exception are indiginous traditions, where people have learned from the physical earth beneath their feet, where they have been living for ten thousand years, how to live on it)

I mean the term has been stigmatized by the conservatives, Define it for me. Is it mean mildly social democrat anymore?I sat down to do this a while back.

Political Labels and the Parties behind them (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13221432&postcount=1)

I mean the term has been stigmatized by the conservatives, Define it for me. Is it mean mildly social democrat anymore?

Well according to this old piece of paper I just found in--of all places--my bathroom drawer, a liberal is "someone preferring large government and large redistribution of income."

In retrospect, letting a neo-con teach an English class was not a smart decision by my school. That guy has completely channeled everyone there into hardcore Republicanism. (Almost got ME, even!)

Political positions often depend on two things: how much the government regulates business and how much it regulates social stuff (gay marriage, abortion, etc.)

* Liberals generally believe that there should be strong regulation of business and weak regulation of social stuff.
* Conservatives generally believe there should be weak regulation of business but strong regulation of social stuff.
* Authoritarians generally believe that there should strong regulation of both.
* Libertarians generally beliueve that there should be weak regualtion of both.
* Centrists generally believe that there should moderate regulation of both.

No, it's not a perfect classification (for example, someone who believes in strongly regulating social stuff and moderately regulating business is on the border between conservatives and authoritarians, and thus could be listed as either), but it works better than a left/right system (which lumps authoritarians and libertarians in roughly the same area as centrists!).

ADDENDUM: As an added note, religion often influences things. Christianity, for example, calls for positions that pretty much guarantee strong christians will believe in strong regulation of social stuff (thus limiting them to conservative or authoritarian). Going the other way, the Dalai Lama is more liberal than most people (and, if you care, about the same on political quizzes as Atma and the green party).

Also keep in mind that although socialism and commuinism may (in theory) be extreme liberalism, in paractice they usually wind up deep into authoritarianism. Need I mention that the three countries most associated with them (North Korea, China, and Cuba) are 168, 163, and 165 respectively among the 169 countries in Reporters Without Borders' Press Freedom index?

Neo-liberal is an insult in europe too.

In any event, most American liberals aren't liberals.

Has to do with the term liberal in Europe Versus the US.

since we started out with liberalism free markets ETC. that's what the conservatives here tend to advocate.

Europe with its longer history has the more accepted definition of liberal among the educated. Free markets + free government.


though among the educated in the US Neo-Liberal is considered a compliment.

I mean the term has been stigmatized by the conservatives, Define it for me. Is it mean mildly social democrat anymore?

Basically the US definition used in political discourse means a moderate social democrat, as you said. The right uses it to mean "panzy" though.

And that's exactly what a Commie spy would say!

What sort of things would a Vampire say? :)

What sort of things would a Vampire say? :)How the hell should I know? Go ask the Po-, I mean, LG.

How the hell should I know? Go ask the Po-, I mean, LG.

Maybe later. :p

I mean the term has been stigmatized by the conservatives, Define it for me. Is it mean mildly social democrat anymore?

The best thing for you to do would be go grab a dictionary and look up the word liberal. Forget for the momnet any political assosiations, and see what the word means.

Then to be liberal, or to act liberal, is what liberal means.

What is a Liberal? In the American sense of the word, Barack Obama what else, a tax er, a spender $, Not the candidate of change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan, he claims to be. Leftist on foreign policy and defense not the rightist on foreign policy and defense he claims to be, or seems to sound like.

What is a Liberal? In the American sense of the word, Barack Obama what else, a tax er, a spender $, Not the candidate of change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan, he claims to be. Leftist on foreign policy and defense not the rightist on foreign policy and defense he claims to be, or seems to sound like.
Nope.

Liberal is a rather broad term that encompasses all kinds of different political styles of thinking. It's basic premise is, well, liberty/freedom. Thus, they are ones who seek to increase the freedom and rights of the population against oppression and authoritarianism. Traditionally, liberals viewed property rights as very important, and therefore classic liberals viewed economic liberalism as equally important, thus classic liberals and libertarians are strongly linked. Today, liberal tend to refer to those who support moderate economic intervention and strong social liberalisation, slightly different from what it used to mean.

Liberal - Supporter of progressive social ideals and economic policies meant to help the down trodden and erase some of the wealth gap.

Not to be confused with a "libruhl" which is an evil boogeyman that will raise your taxes, abduct your children to be sold into gay slavery, allow terrorists to blow your stuff up at random, bring about communism, steal your bibles, and burn all our flags.

Originally Posted by Miami Shores
What is a Liberal? In the American sense of the word, Barack Obama what else, a tax er, a spender $, Not the candidate of change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan, he claims to be. Leftist on foreign policy and defense not the rightist on foreign policy and defense he claims to be, or seems to sound like.

If Obama becomes president he will be the most socialist USA President in history.

Liberal - Supporter of progressive social ideals and economic policies meant to help the down trodden and erase some of the wealth gap.

It always sounds good on paper, don't it? :p

Not to be confused with a "libruhl" which is an evil boogeyman that will raise your taxes, abduct your children to be sold into gay slavery, allow terrorists to blow your stuff up at random, bring about communism, steal your bibles, and burn all our flags.

^Approves^

If Obama becomes president he will be the most socialist USA President in history.

America isn't really noted for its socialist leaders, so this isn't saying much.

If Obama becomes president he will be the most socialist USA President in history.
Le proof for this wild allegation?

Originally Posted by Miami Shores
What is a Liberal? In the American sense of the word, Barack Obama what else, a tax er, a spender $, Not the candidate of change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan, he claims to be. Leftist on foreign policy and defense not the rightist on foreign policy and defense he claims to be, or seems to sound like.

If Obama becomes president he will be the most socialist USA President in history.

You say this as though it should bother me.

You say this as though it should bother me.

Well, they do try. ;)

Originally Posted by Miami Shores
Originally Posted by Miami Shores
What is a Liberal? In the American sense of the word, Barack Obama what else, a tax er, a spender $, Not the candidate of change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan, he claims to be. Leftist on foreign policy and defense not the rightist on foreign policy and defense he claims to be, or seems to sound like.

If Obama becomes president he will be the most socialist USA President in history.

Le proof for this wild allegation?

If Obama wins and I believe he will, you will see that I am right.

If Obama wins and I believe he will, you will see that I am right.

I only hope you are.

If Obama wins and I believe he will, you will see that I am right.That's not proof, that's fearmongering.

Originally Posted by Miami Shores
What is a Liberal? In the American sense of the word, Barack Obama what else, a tax er, a spender $, Not the candidate of change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan, he claims to be. Leftist on foreign policy and defense not the rightist on foreign policy and defense he claims to be, or seems to sound like.

If Obama becomes president he will be the most socialist USA President in history.

Le proof for this wild allegation?

If Obama wins and I believe he will, you will see that I am right.

If Obama wins and I believe he will, you will see that I am right.

First of all, same post twice. Second of all, sure you're not left? :p

If Obama wins and I believe he will, you will see that I am right.Dude. You seriously need to learn how to use the features of this forum.

I was trying to combine all our posts in one, and I did that. But you are correct I do need to learn to use the features on this forum.

Its not fear mongering, call it a prediction if Obama becomes President which I believe he will and I believe I am right.

I was trying to combine all our posts in one, and I did that. But you are correct I do need to learn to use the features on this forum.Click the plus button in the lower right corners of any posts you want to quote together.

Its not fear mongering, call it a prediction if Obama becomes President which I believe he will and I believe I am right.That's like saying German shepherds aren't German shepherds because they're dogs...

Godless, Commie, Reverse-Racist, Baby-killing, Gay-Lesbians

Godless, Commie, Reverse-Racist, Baby-killing, Gay-Lesbians

That's a list of my fave things. :D

Its not fear mongering, call it a prediction if Obama becomes President which I believe he will and I believe I am right.

That's like saying German shepherds aren't German shepherds because they're dogs...

lol, I have always had German Shepherd dogs. I love German Shepherd dogs.

Obama would have a majority Liberal Democrat House and Senate to begin with. His secretary of State or Defense would be the Liberal leftist Sen Chritopher Dodd. Call these my predictions. As a Cuban American to the delight of most of my fellow NS Nations I am not happy at the prospect.

lol, I have always had German Shepherd dogs. I love German Shepherd dogs.

Obama would have a majority Liberal Democrat House and Senate to begin with. His secretary of State or Defense would be the Liberal leftist Sen Chritopher Dodd. Call these my predictions. As a Cuban American to the delight of most of my fellow NS Nations I am not happy at the prospect.

Care to expound on this? Seriously, what is it other than the D before his name that gives you such jibblies over "that one"? Is it bitterness over castro bleeding over to this, totally different, will never be like Cuba, country?

In Modern U.S. Parlance, it seems to be that:

1. A liberal is anyone who believes it is a legitimate function of the government to take money from the wealthy and use it to better the circumstances of the poor.

2. A liberal is anyone who believes the government can manage the delivery of health care better than the private sector can.

3. A liberal is anyone who believes affordable health care is a right as opposed to a privilege.

4. A liberal is anyone who believes that only the police and/or military should have access to guns.

5. A liberal is someone who thinks that God/religion should not be included in school curriculum.

6. A liberal is anyone who believes "the government knows best" about any subject with the exception of the managing of the military where it is clear the government knows nothing and should listen to the people.

7. A liberal is anyone who thinks it is the job of government to provide assistance to the poor and uneducated.

At least, that is how it seems to boil down for me these days as to what the media tells me a liberal is.

At least, that is how it seems to boil down for me these days as to what the media tells me a liberal is.Gosh. Only now I realize its not your fault that you didn't keep yourself informed...

Originally Posted by Miami Shores
What is a Liberal? In the American sense of the word, Barack Obama what else, a tax er, a spender $, Not the candidate of change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan, he claims to be. Leftist on foreign policy and defense not the rightist on foreign policy and defense he claims to be, or seems to sound like.

If Obama becomes president he will be the most socialist USA President in history.

So what exactly are Obama's socialist policies?

Liberal:
Right-wing party member, in favor of small government (especially in economic matters), to ensure the people are left alone as much as possible.
Originally quite literally liberal on social issues, but seems to be forgetting this recently, in favor of repressive ideas.
That's pretty much the dutch definition

Wowmaui, that is just what a Liberal is NOT (apart from point 5). The term "liberal" in America has been turned up-side-down to mean something like 'socialist'. In Europe, a liberal is a right wing ideology. Liberalism means that a small government is favoured, and that people should be granted the maximum amount of freedom, as long as he doesn't violate another person's freedom. Liberal = Free. Liberalism wants as little government interference with peoples' lives as possible, in economy and all other aspects of life. Liberalism is based on the belief that people can govern themselves and that every person knows best what is best for him or herself, including choosing religion.

So, liberalism, in the real meaning of the word, not the upside down American meaning, is a person who believes that every person is able to govern herself and choose for herself, as long as she does not violate another person's freedoms, and should be granted the maximum amount of freedom to do as she likes, because she, and not a senate or Reichtag, knows best what is best for herself.

Obama is not a socialist, nor a liberal. In Europe, the American Democrats would be considered far right, and the Republicans would be off the map because they are so far to the right. Both are right wing ideologies, but you could say that democrats and Obama are a bit more towards the centre of the political spectra than the Republicans. So, congratulations Americans, you can choose between Right and a bit less Right.

4chan gold membership: Yes, this is the real, true and European meaning of the word.

In Modern U.S. Parlance, it seems to be that:

1. A liberal is anyone who believes it is a legitimate function of the government to take money from the wealthy and use it to better the circumstances of the poor.

Yep.

2. A liberal is anyone who believes the government can manage the delivery of health care better than the private sector can.

More like, the private secter has shown it cant, so we're trying something new.

3. A liberal is anyone who believes affordable health care is a right as opposed to a privilege.

You got it.

4. A liberal is anyone who believes that only the police and/or military should have access to guns.

Nope.

5. A liberal is someone who thinks that God/religion should not be included in school curriculum.

Yep. Liberals tend to be opposed to religions indoctrination in public schools.

6. A liberal is anyone who believes "the government knows best" about any subject with the exception of the managing of the military where it is clear the government knows nothing and should listen to the people.


Not really. Especially because it tends to be conservatives that think the government should define marriage and tell a woman what her reproductive rights are.

7. A liberal is anyone who thinks it is the job of government to provide assistance to the poor and uneducated.


Yep.

At least, that is how it seems to boil down for me these days as to what the media tells me a liberal is.

So its not your fault your ignorant?


Combing all the ones that are true, youve defined liberal as "Someone who cares about people" and "respects individual rights".


Id say thats pretty close.

Godless, Commie, Reverse-Racist, Baby-killing, Gay-Lesbians

You forgot 'Moslem'!

If Obama wins and I believe he will, you will see that I am right.

That's not really proof, though, is it? "Wait four weeks, and then my statement will be supported by fact." While in the meantime...?

"That One"

You forgot 'Moslem'!

oh yes! of course, Liberals are Godless Muslim Commie Reverse-Racist Baby-killing Gay-Lesbian Terrorist Sympathizers

That's a list of my fave things. :D

Well then obviously you're an anti-American evildoer who doesn't deserve freedom, and should move to either France or Cuba.

lol, I have always had German Shepherd dogs. I love German Shepherd dogs.

Obama would have a majority Liberal Democrat House and Senate to begin with. His secretary of State or Defense would be the Liberal leftist Sen Chritopher Dodd. Call these my predictions. As a Cuban American to the delight of most of my fellow NS Nations I am not happy at the prospect.

You just love those "L" words, don't you?

So its not your fault your ignorant?


Combing all the ones that are true, youve defined liberal as "Someone who cares about people" and "respects individual rights".


Id say thats pretty close.Excuse me, I didn't say that is what a liberal is or what I thought a liberal was, read it again, I said these things seem to define a liberal in U.S. parlance and U.S. Media. My personal opinion as to what a liberal is was not expressed. Only the current U.S. media's description (and I tend to lol at the idea the media has a "liberal bias" as so many like to claim here as well).

I do, however, like my muffin well buttered.
Sinuhue might just pay well for this little ditty. *nods*

A liberal is someone who believes in maximising individual liberties rather than government power. Traditionally in the UK (where the term originated) it is associated with ideas like free trade, less government interference in peoples lives.

A conservative is someone who believes in maintaining things pretty much as they are, and so opposes change. So a conservative in the US will tend to be Republican, in Russia they will be the people who want to return to Communism.

According to conservatives, a liberal is someone who wants to take away your guns, money, and bible.

A liberal is someone a conservative disagrees with. A conservative is someone that a liberal disagrees with.

Now that that's settled, I will now have a muffin. *munches on a muffin*

At least it isn't a Liberal from here...Liberal party is the main right-wing/conservative party of Australia.

"Liberal" is a term used to describe terrorist supporters who turn your children gay, make every TV channel into 24 hour porn, and let the evil brown people in.

According to conservatives, a liberal is someone who wants to take away your guns, money, and bible.And most certainly, there's myriad examples to qualify the integrity of conservatives ...
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