NationStates Jolt Archive

Just read this on another forum. Don't have other sources yet, will be posting them when I find them.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=127118

If this is true, then I guess we're all pretty screwed.:(

Damnit, sorry for double thread post. Could a mod fix that please?

Meh - The world has endured worse economic situations. We will find a way - panicing will solve nothing.

I'm sure the world will survive, but that won't make it nice for people in the meantime. The world survived the 1930's and its aftermath as well.

Well the world needs a good dose of reality anyway.

Well the world needs a good dose of reality anyway.

Why do you equate "reality" with "screwed six ways to sunday?" Just curious.

Well, perhaps now we'll get a glimpse of how the third world copes every day.

There's a thread on this exact subject at the top of the front page

600 Billion dollar bill (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=567470)

Yep, I saw that. I just felt like posting here anyway. :p

Well, perhaps now we'll get a glimpse of how the third world copes every day.

And indulging in masochistic delight as the first world falls apart will help the third world, how?

Doesn't matter, anyways. I just noticed that their's already a lengthy thread on this topic. I'm sure a mod will shut this down shortly.

It won't help, no. But it'll be damn funny. :p

It won't help, no. But it'll be damn funny. :p

I suppose, if your into human suffering.

Oh I am. The irony of a country crippled by the one thing it loves so much is very amusing.

What was it Rosevelt said? "Hungry and out of work people are the stuff of which dictatorships are made?"

Hope you like being drafted to fight either for or against the next Hitler, as he gasses x number of millions of (insert minority group here).

Calm yourself. You'll end up having an anurism. I plan to BE that next dictator.

Calm yourself. You'll end up having an anurism. I plan to BE that next dictator.

I'll be the other dictator.

I'll split it with you - I get west of the Mississippi, and you can have east.

I'm English. So you can have the US to yourself.

I suppose, if your into human suffering.

I am. :)

I am. :)

Well, good minds think alike (Or bad in this case.) :p

Just read this on another forum. Don't have other sources yet, will be posting them when I find them.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=127118

If this is true, then I guess we're all pretty screwed.:(

Wow....another government program fails....

I'm English. So you can have the US to yourself.

It's impossible to establish a good dictatorship without a boogieman.

I have my ways...

Well, good minds think alike (Or bad in this case.) :p

"I've always been willing to put myself at great personal risk for the sake of entertainment. And I've always been willing to put YOU at great personal risk for the same reason." -George Carlin.

:)

I like puff pastry.

I'll be the other dictator.

I'll split it with you - I get west of the Mississippi, and you can have east.

Screw that. I am going to convince the remnants of the military that this is the EU's fault and invade Europe. I figure I will either win and have a much more stable country to be dictator over or if lose and the EU doesn't have the death penalty.

Wow....another government program fails....

"Fails" as in "didn't pass."

"Fails" as in "didn't pass."

Fine, the next time one of my class mates fail their test, I'll just tell them that they didn't fail, they just "didn't pass."

Wow....another government program fails....

If it hasn't come into being yet it can't really have "failed", can it?

My great-great-grandchildren have failed to graduate from college.

Fine, the next time one of my class mates fail their test, I'll just tell them that they didn't fail, they just "didn't pass."

Either that's intellectually dishonest equivocation or it's a pretty clever pun that isn't meant to be an argument.

Either that's intellectually dishonest equivocation or it's a pretty clever pun that isn't meant to be an argument.

I doubt it's the latter.

I like this piece from Fortune on why the bill failed to pass. The author takes some (unnecessary, I think) swipes at Pelosi, but concludes that Republican leadership failed to put together a strong enough message to counter the outcry from Republican Congresspeople's constituents. More interesting is this refreshing dose of candor from Rep. Jim McCrery (R-LA):

Pelosi may not have helped, but the plan died because Republicans weren't willing to ignore a revolt among the folks back home and cast a rushed vote on a massively complex subject with an almost unfathomable price tag.

"If on the substance, you're undecided, then the politics tips you into the 'no' category," Rep. Jim McCrery of Louisiana, a Republican who supported the package, told Fortune. "It was a tough vote politically in their view."

McCrery's own experience leading up to the vote provides insight into what the White House was up against. McCrery is the ranking Republican on the House Ways and Means Committee. He's a Shreveport lawyer known for immersing himself in the details of complex tax and entitlement issues. He's one of the chamber's most thoughtful and studious lawmakers - and he's retiring, so he's less interested in playing it safe politically than figuring out what's right to do for the country.

McCrery has been cramming on the state of today's credit markets, reading everything he could get his hands on, consulting with every expert he could find. "It's been like drinking from a fire hose," he said.

I asked McCrery if his yes vote meant that he was now persuaded that the country faced a dire financial emergency requiring a $700 billion market intervention. His answer: "I'm still not knowledgeable enough about the credit markets."

Faced with competing views from competing experts on a subject that no one outside a few top economists understands, McCrery threw his lot in with Paulson and Bernanke. "I had to pick a group of experts whose opinion I was going to go with," McCrery said.

Notice the irony of McCain blaming the Dems and Obama for it failing, claiming they were putting politics first, country 2nd. But many Repubs voted against it out of fear of losing their seats come Election day.
How is that not political?

Notice the irony of McCain blaming the Dems and Obama for it failing, claiming they were putting politics first, country 2nd. But many Repubs voted against it out of fear of losing their seats come Election day.
How is that not political?

The GOP leadership (inclucing McCain) does not care about truth, or justice, or the American people. They care about maintaining their wealth and power. Any lie, any smere, any spitting in the face of the rule of law is acceptable, as long as it meets that end. Nothing else matters.

Except for the Bible nuts. Those are the really scary ones.

Honestly, that $700 billion of Monopoly money probably wouldn't even cover a fraction of what's out there. People are, well, fucking dreaming if they think the credit crisis even has anything to do with the mortgages anymore...that was just the tip of a very, very big iceberg that has just begun to surface.

When there's $500 trillion in derivatives out there collapsing, what the hell does $700 billion matter?

The GOP leadership (inclucing McCain) does not care about truth, or justice, or the American people. They care about maintaining their wealth and power. Any lie, any smere, any spitting in the face of the rule of law is acceptable, as long as it meets that end. Nothing else matters.

Except for the Bible nuts. Those are the really scary ones.This automatically makes the Democrats benevolent, caring politicians who are only in it for the good of America and its citizens, then?

This automatically makes the Democrats benevolent, caring politicians who are only in it for the good of America and its citizens, then?

Take that strawman and shove it down your throat.

Take that strawman and shove it down your throat.Well, if the Republicans are so stupid, the Democrats must automatically be intelligent, well-informed, and decisive, yes? That seems to be the general consensus.

Well, if the Republicans are so stupid, the Democrats must automatically be intelligent, well-informed, and decisive, yes? That seems to be the general consensus.

Leaping to the conclusion that because I condemn the GOP(admitedly with exagerated and melodramatic language), that I must therefor assume perfection on the part of the Democrats, is idiotic.

I am criticizing the GOP. Instead of responding to that criticizim, you try to reshape my argument into a blind devotion to the Democrats, and then attack that. That is classic strawmanning, and its pathetic.

And I didn't say the Republican leadership was stupid (though doubtless many are). I was focussing more on the aspects of their party that would fall under "evil", rather than "stupid."

Well, if the Republicans are so stupid, the Democrats must automatically be intelligent, well-informed, and decisive, yes? That seems to be the general consensus.

True but only in comparison to Republicans.

Leaping to the conclusion that because I condemn the GOP(admitedly with exagerated and melodramatic language), that I must therefor assume perfection on the part of the Democrats, is idiotic.

I am criticizing the GOP. Instead of responding to that criticizim, you try to reshape my argument into a blind devotion to the Democrats, and then attack that. That is classic strawmanning, and its pathetic.I'm not actually saying anything, nor did I claim that it was true. See the question mark on the end of my sentence? I believe it's you that's jumping to conclusions.
This automatically makes the Democrats benevolent, caring politicians who are only in it for the good of America and its citizens, then?See? There is no assertion that the Democrats are this. It's a question.

When there's $500 trillion in derivatives out there collapsing, what the hell does $700 billion matter?
What's the reason the derivatives are falling to bits though: the products and companies they're concerned with, or issued by, are dropping like flies. If that process could be halted or slowed by this TARP scheme, it could stabilise derivatives markets to a significant extent.

Your implication was clear, Gauntleted Fist. You asked a very provocative question in a manner that possitively reeked of sarcasm and accusation. And now your trying to back out.

For the record, I don't think the Democrats are perfect. I registered Independent, largely because America is on the brink of irrevocable disaster partly because the party was collectively too spineless to stand up to Bush. I also think Obama has lied to us, or at least mislead us, and will do so again.

However, the Democrats are not going to follow Bush's policies for the most part, and those policies put us where we are today. And I have not seen dirty campaigning from Obama on the level of the sheare mockery of reality that the McCain camp's spin has become.

Obama did not turn a crisis into a cheap stunt by threatening to call off his campaing when he was behind, then wimping out.

Obama has been repeatedly criticized for not running a harsher campaign.

Obama chose a qualified VP. McCain chose a cheap sensationalist stunt VP.

The Democrats and Obama aren't perfect. No one is. But on the whole they're a lot less dishonest, and a lot less malevolent in their goals than the GOP these days.

What's the reason the derivatives are falling to bits though: the products and companies they're concerned with, or issued by, are dropping like flies. If that process could be halted or slowed by this TARP scheme, it could stabilise derivatives markets to a significant extent.

I think it's simply too late. This is such a house of cards that by the time this bailout finally happens, all of the derivatives built upon it, and those built upon them ad infinitum will have already begun collapsing. This bailout would've actually likely slowed or stopped the bleeding had it been set up in 2006 or 2007, but now I think it's simply too late to do anything but attempt to prevent the existing crisis from getting exponentially worse.

The Imperial Navy is an ill-informed idiot that needs to shut up and go back to the Soviet Union. Really. Those posts aren't constructive at all. Same with those saying we're going into a 30s-era economic depression.

Your implication was clear, Gauntleted Fist. You asked a very provocative question in a manner that possitively reeked of sarcasm and accusation. And now your trying to back out.

For the record, I don't think the Democrats are perfect. I registered Independent, largely because America is on the brink of irrevocable disaster partly because the party was collectively too spineless to stand up to Bush. I also think Obama has lied to us, or at least mislead us, and will do so again.

However, the Democrats are not going to follow Bush's policies for the most part, and those policies put us where we are today. And I have not seen dirty campaigning from Obama on the level of the sheare mockery of reality that the McCain camp's spin has become.

Obama did not turn a crisis into a cheap stunt by threatening to call off his campaing when he was behind, then wimping out.

Obama has been repeatedly criticized for not running a harsher campaign.

Obama chose a qualified VP. McCain chose a cheap sensationalist stunt VP.

The Democrats and Obama aren't perfect. No one is. But on the whole they're a lot less dishonest, and a lot less malevolent in their goals than the GOP these days.I guess it is impossible these days. :(

"I've always been willing to put myself at great personal risk for the sake of entertainment. And I've always been willing to put YOU at great personal risk for the same reason." -George Carlin.

:)

George Carlin for the win! :cool:

I guess it is impossible these days. :(

What is?

What is?Being sarcastic without an ulterior motive. :(

Being sarcastic without an ulterior motive. :(

Well, if that was your intention I apologise. I've been in quite a few nasty debates with Republicans lately, and I've got my guard up 24/7 I guess.

Being sarcastic without an ulterior motive. :(

Having an ulterior motive is the whole point of sarcasm.

I think it's simply too late. This is such a house of cards that by the time this bailout finally happens, all of the derivatives built upon it, and those built upon them ad infinitum will have already begun collapsing. This bailout would've actually likely slowed or stopped the bleeding had it been set up in 2006 or 2007, but now I think it's simply too late to do anything but attempt to prevent the existing crisis from getting exponentially worse.

Maybe they should declare over the counter CDS unenforceable. Just automatically net everyone out.

It will cause all sorts of chaos in the short term, but it might be a lot less horrible than people imagine. The $500 trillion is notional, it doesn't represent anything like the actual possible loss.

Well, if that was your intention I apologise. I've been in quite a few nasty debates with Republicans lately, and I've got my guard up 24/7 I guess.It was, and it's okay. I'm a rather sensible Republican, I think. I listen to the opposition, for one. :p
Having an ulterior motive is the whole point of sarcasm.Without a...provocative motive, then. Sorry for not being clear.

Oh I am. The irony of a country crippled by the one thing it loves so much is very amusing.

If you think this is only going to affect one country then you sir are severely mistaken. This is going to effect every country in the world with the possible exception of a few states (North Korea, Zimbabwe)

Wow....another government program fails....

Umm, how did the government program fail? It was never passed that is what failed not the program.

The title of this thread is misleading.

Leaping to the conclusion that because I condemn the GOP(admitedly with exagerated and melodramatic language), that I must therefor assume perfection on the part of the Democrats, is idiotic.

Well the thing was that you focused solely on the Republicans and didn't give any mention to the democrats that also voted against it.

The Australians are pissed off though.

Australia applies to become 51st State (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24424206-601,00.html)

This actually probably won't help get the bill passed, if history is any guide.

[QUOTE=Gauntleted Fist;14053692]It was, and it's okay. I'm a rather sensible Republican, I think. I listen to the opposition, for one. :pQUOTE]

Well, we need more sensible Republicans. I'd like to see the moderates take back the party. I say this as a supporter of the Democrats because I don't think democracy can function in a one-party system. So we need the GOP. But for the GOP to act as a legitimate political oponent, it needs to respect the rule of law, the truth, and the ellectorate. This means breaking the control of the Bush era Neo-cons and the Fundimentalist End Times crowd over the party. I think its sad to see the party of Abraham Lincon in its current state.

Though I'd like to see viable independents as well. People should vote on issues and individual merrit, not party loyalty.

The Australians are pissed off though.

Australia applies to become 51st State (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24424206-601,00.html)

This actually probably won't help get the bill passed, if history is any guide.
That'll probably make it less likely for the bill to pass.

The Australians are pissed off though.

Australia applies to become 51st State (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24424206-601,00.html)

This actually probably won't help get the bill passed, if history is any guide.

They could pitch in.

Well the thing was that you focused solely on the Republicans and didn't give any mention to the democrats that also voted against it.

Because McCain is trying to pin this on Obama, despite the GOP being the primary (not sole) source of opposition.

Well, we need more sensible Republicans. I'd like to see the moderates take back the party. I say this as a supporter of the Democrats because I don't think democracy can function in a one-party system. So we need the GOP. But for the GOP to act as a legitimate political oponent, it needs to respect the rule of law, the truth, and the ellectorate. This means breaking the control of the Bush era Neo-cons and the Fundimentalist End Times crowd over the party. I think its sad to see the party of Abraham Lincon in its current state.

Though I'd like to see viable independents as well. People should vote on issues and individual merrit, not party loyalty.If I was planning to be a politician, I'd most likely be classified as a Moderate Republican. Too bad I won't be able to vote in the upcoming election, though.

The Australians are pissed off though.
Well then you can bail out the US financial sector, if it is so important to you.

Could someone translate all of this into layman's terms for me? Specifically how this will actually translate into daily life?

Could someone translate all of this into layman's terms for me? Specifically how this will actually translate into daily life?

I'll try.

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! THE END TIME IS NEAR!!! REPENT YOUR SINS!!!

I'll try.

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! THE END TIME IS NEAR!!! REPENT YOUR SINS!!!...I think your translation is even more confusing than the actual statement. o_0

Could someone translate all of this into layman's terms for me? Specifically how this will actually translate into daily life?

Well, what it means for companies like mine, companies that employ a large portion of American workers, is that we cannot borrow money to make payroll. This usually isn't necessary, but we survive on being paid by larger companies. Sometimes they take a while and with them unable to borrow money the delays trickle down.

In other words, we will either be forced to lay people off, or we will be unable to hire people we were already talking to a week ago, despite being wildly profitable and very responsible.

Similarly if I were selling my house it would sell for less or not at all becuase the number of people who can afford to buy a house has plummetted because of a credit freeze despite them having good credit. So the housing market continues to fall.

Add in that my parents a dramatic part of their life savings and are over 65. Money that the market will make back eventually, but that doesn't help them now.

Multiply across the country and that's the position. This isn't just about wall street.

It doesn't mean people will die or that the world will end, but it will very much affect joblessness, the home market, the stock market, savings, spending, and your retirement accounts. That's no small thing.

They could pitch in.
To be fair, Australian institutions and regulators have been doing everything they can. The RBA just now expanded its swap operations with the Fed to $30 billion, basically spreading US dollars on behalf of the Fed to financial institutions operating in the region. And the government has actually been illustrating the value in RMBS by encouraging local institutions to make more of the things based on the much more solid Australian housing market.

It's just that this is a pretty small country, that will ultimately be swept along with little direct input. If the US collapses badly enough to depress Chinese demand for our primary resource exporters, Australia will go into a recession. So we have no interest in seeing a bunch of politicians drop the ball on this one.

new jobs=no, stock markets going down hard which means anybody investing (and that means pensions as well as a shit load of other bank accounts) is screwed hard in the short time. Multiple companies will be affected due to their investment in other companies which may sink many other companies as well. Lots of people may get laid off people may stop buying things except essential commodities. This is what caused the great depression in the first place. . . .same general set of prereqs. Now it just depends on whether the republicans get their heads straight and figure out FINALLY that their economic theories don't work and also depends on what the public does. If they do stop investing and spending were all in trouble. Finally this . .. is . .. the . .. united states of america's fault. no one else's . . .yours. You elected the idiot who kicked whole thing off, its your policies (not all americans obviously) that Set it up and your semi-idiotic Ceos who actually made the mistakes. . . no it is up to you to fix it or not. Good luck to us all.

You elected the idiot who kicked whole thing off...
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=567315

Well, what it means for companies like mine, companies that employ a large portion of American workers, is that we cannot borrow money to make payroll. This usually isn't necessary, but we survive on being paid by larger companies. Sometimes they take a while and with them unable to borrow money the delays trickle down.

In other words, we will either be forced to lay people off, or we will be unable to hire people we were already talking to a week ago, despite being wildly profitable and very responsible.

Similarly if I were selling my house it would sell for less or not at all becuase the number of people who can afford to buy a house has plummetted because of a credit freeze despite them having good credit. So the housing market continues to fall.

Add in that my parents a dramatic part of their life savings and are over 65. Money that the market will make back eventually, but that doesn't help them now.

Multiply across the country and that's the position. This isn't just about wall street.

It doesn't mean people will die or that the world will end, but it will very much affect joblessness, the home market, the stock market, savings, spending, and your retirement accounts. That's no small thing.

And as the credit crisis spreads globally, companies like my father's will go under as people are unable to afford building or export costs, the company I work for as people cancel their health insurance since we have public health, which means that the public health system will be overloaded.

Or maybe I'm just paranoid for my job...

Good! This makes me very happy. This will teach people a listen, and the government should stay the fuck out of the economy anyways.

Good! This makes me very happy. This will teach people a listen, and the government should stay the fuck out of the economy anyways.

Seriously . . .oh well typical second post and welcome to nation states. The government's "staying the fuck out of the economy" is what set the stage for this kind of crisis in the first place. Look into the great depression for some historical background on how the government staying out isn't quite as great as the neoconservatives might like to tell you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=567315

lol good call sry bro

I'll try.

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! THE END TIME IS NEAR!!! REPENT YOUR SINS!!!
Exactly, although I'd add a bit about "USE ALL YOUR MONEY TO BUY AS MANY GUNS AND POTTED MEATS AS YOU CAN!!!!"
On an entirely unrelated note, I'm selling tins of potted meat: $20 a tin for Vienna sausages, $15 for cured ham or Spam.

Seriously . . .oh well typical second post and welcome to nation states. The government's "staying the fuck out of the economy" is what set the stage for this kind of crisis in the first place. Look into the great depression for some historical background on how the government staying out isn't quite as great as the neoconservatives might like to tell you.

Great Depression was primaly caused because of the Federal Reserve.

As for second post, yes that is true, but I use to post here a couple of years ago.

This bailout would solve nothing, reward wrongdoers, and make the treasury department above the law. I'm glad it failed. Now let's pause the attempts to throw money at the problem and look at fixing the underlying issues that created this mess. Artificially low interest rates from the Federal Reserve combined with an illegal war, deficit spending going through the roof, massive inflation (double digits if measured properly, according to some economists) and Wall Street skulduggery are all partly to blame in this mess.

Exactly, although I'd add a bit about "USE ALL YOUR MONEY TO BUY AS MANY GUNS AND POTTED MEATS AS YOU CAN!!!!"
On an entirely unrelated note, I'm selling tins of potted meat: $20 a tin for Vienna sausages, $15 for cured ham or Spam.

Fantastic, I suspect as demand grows, prices will rise so I'm selling those for $40 and $30 respectively in one year, I'll give you some paper to this effect.

*Hands out one strip of toilet paper*

I hope those prices are based on something more than thin air.

Great Depression was primaly caused because of the Federal Reserve.

As for second post, yes that is true, but I use to post here a couple of years ago.

cool . . . . .under what name? and why haven't you restored your country yet.

Second . . .part of the reason yes. The other part was a lack of safeguards many of which are absent once again now due to . . . yep . . .bush who is a neocon.

cool . . . . .under what name? and why haven't you restored your country yet.

We will wait and see what he says but

Jolt did an account cleanup and deleted anyone who hadn't posted in a year. There are TONS of nations coming back to the game, or even just coming back to the forums while being very active in NS1 via gameplay and offsite forums.

Do NOT take players to task for technical issues they didn't cause and that can't be fixed. Don't assume the account start date has anything to do with the knowledge base of the player.

He may not have posted for over a year

I have more stupid news.

Some more people are panicing now because supposedly Pelosi said that Congress is under "Martial Law" during the talks, meaning she wasn't going to let anyone walk out of the voting.

Of course since she used those exact words, crazy people are expecting the Jackboots to appear.

I have more stupid news.

Some more people are panicing now because supposedly Pelosi said that Congress is under "Martial Law" during the talks, meaning she wasn't going to let anyone walk out of the voting.

Of course since she used those exact words, crazy people are expecting the Jackboots to appear.

There's a lesson for the candidates - choose your words carefully when it's a volatile situation.
Orson Wells and "War of the Worlds" springs to mind.

Honestly, that $700 billion of Monopoly money probably wouldn't even cover a fraction of what's out there. People are, well, fucking dreaming if they think the credit crisis even has anything to do with the mortgages anymore...that was just the tip of a very, very big iceberg that has just begun to surface.

When there's $500 trillion in derivatives out there collapsing, what the hell does $700 billion matter?

So, what you're saying is, we're completely fucked and might as well prepare for the nukes or something?

So, what you're saying is, we're completely fucked and might as well prepare for the nukes or something?

Rubs off as a tad bit alarmist, don't you think? Considering most economists don't think this is going to go anywhere near the way it did to start the Great Depression...

There's a lesson for the candidates - choose your words carefully when it's a volatile situation.
Orson Wells and "War of the Worlds" springs to mind.

"Mr. Bush! The Islamic terrorists have flown hijacked planes into buildings! What do we do?!"

"Well, we're going to conduct a crusade..."

:eek:

On a more serious note, I was actually planning on beginning some serious investments once I started getting money again here in a few months or so.

What should I plan on doing now? Hold off from investing altogether?

On a more serious note, I was actually planning on beginning some serious investments once I started getting money again here in a few months or so.

What should I plan on doing now? Hold off from investing altogether?

Depends. There are portions of the markets that are still strong. However, I think the general consensus is let all of the flotsam and jetsam of this very volatile market period kind of smooth out and go away before you try to invest, as it's hard enough to make a good investment based on research when the market is stable or rising.

Also, kudos to my parents/their companies for putting their retirement and other funds in Vanguard, which I hear is still very strong.

So, what you're saying is, we're completely fucked and might as well prepare for the nukes or something?

No.

It is VERY BAD. But it is not the end of the world. U have to remember that in the US, many many people have tied their lives and prosperity to the credit boom. So obviously, to them, it does seem like the end of the world. But it isn't.

All that has happened thus far has been quite predictable. Because of the psychological shock of the good times coming to an end however, thus far we have seen everyone in denial. We are now in the fear/anger stage. Meh. Next will come bargaining.

There is no doubt that the american economy - and therefore society - is going to have to radically alter itself in order to get out of this mess. And this will be very painful for some, because everything they thought they knew and all the stuff that made them 'smart' probably will turn out to be wrong. So it's a big blow to the ego. But it is not as if civil society is going to completely collapse. Though if you listen to people who are close to this, they are acting this way.

It will all be over a few years from now. I want to say 2012 but I know how people react to that.

Just remember, there is nothing unusual about banking crises. They happen all the time. This one is unusual since it is global-ish, so it is going to be harder to dig out of the hole, but it will happen. If you are young, it really is nothing to worry about. The US is not coming to an end, and ten years from now this will all seem like nothing. I say this with the caveat that probably life won't work out the way most people had hoped it would, because it's very much going to be a country of produce or perish in the sense that a great deal of nothing jobs are going to vanish for the foreseeable future and chronic unemployment will become part of the landscape. But its not the end of days. It's a good thing if anything, because a lot of heads are going to be forcibly torn from arseholes.

look new policy. If the Us ceases to be the #1 economy in the world (trading blocs don't count) then we are just going to nuke everyone. So listen here rest of the world ante up.

Depends. There are portions of the markets that are still strong. However, I think the general consensus is let all of the flotsam and jetsam of this very volatile market period kind of smooth out and go away before you try to invest, as it's hard enough to make a good investment based on research when the market is stable or rising.
Right. That seems to be the most sensible idea.

No.

It is VERY BAD. But it is not the end of the world. U have to remember that in the US, many many people have tied their lives and prosperity to the credit boom. So obviously, to them, it does seem like the end of the world. But it isn't.

All that has happened thus far has been quite predictable. Because of the psychological shock of the good times coming to an end however, thus far we have seen everyone in denial. We are now in the fear/anger stage. Meh. Next will come bargaining.

There is no doubt that the american economy - and therefore society - is going to have to radically alter itself in order to get out of this mess. And this will be very painful for some, because everything they thought they knew and all the stuff that made them 'smart' probably will turn out to be wrong. So it's a big blow to the ego. But it is not as if civil society is going to completely collapse. Though if you listen to people who are close to this, they are acting this way.

It will all be over a few years from now. I want to say 2012 but I know how people react to that.

Just remember, there is nothing unusual about banking crises. They happen all the time. This one is unusual since it is global-ish, so it is going to be harder to dig out of the hole, but it will happen. If you are young, it really is nothing to worry about. The US is not coming to an end, and ten years from now this will all seem like nothing. I say this with the caveat that probably life won't work out the way most people had hoped it would, because it's very much going to be a country of produce or perish in the sense that a great deal of nothing jobs are going to vanish for the foreseeable future and chronic unemployment will become part of the landscape. But its not the end of days. It's a good thing if anything, because a lot of heads are going to be forcibly torn from arseholes.

I know. I was being sarcastic. :p

look new policy. If the Us ceases to be the #1 economy in the world (trading blocs don't count) then we are just going to nuke everyone. So listen here rest of the world ante up.

Considering our GDP rivals that of the entire EU, I say that we have a while before this happens. :P

Considering our GDP rivals that of the entire EU, I say that we have a while before this happens. :P

well if you count trading blocks the EU has more. until we count NAFTA.

I have more stupid news.

Some more people are panicing now because supposedly Pelosi said that Congress is under "Martial Law" during the talks, meaning she wasn't going to let anyone walk out of the voting.

Of course since she used those exact words, crazy people are expecting the Jackboots to appear.

If I remember my history correctly, Congress has technically been under martial law for nearly 200 years now. Lincoln used it to force Congress back into session and, assuming my memory is not failing me, it was never actually revoked.

On a more serious note, I was actually planning on beginning some serious investments once I started getting money again here in a few months or so.

What should I plan on doing now? Hold off from investing altogether?

Gold.

If I remember my history correctly, Congress has technically been under martial law for nearly 200 years now. Lincoln used it to force Congress back into session and, assuming my memory is not failing me, it was never actually revoked.

I love it when shit like this happens, I hope it is true.

It is a bit like those two European countries IIRC one was San Marino that were technically at war with each other for a couple of hundred years and was only recently fixed.

well if you count trading blocks the EU has more. until we count NAFTA.EU isn'T a trading block. It's a uniform market.

I love it when shit like this happens, I hope it is true.

It is a bit like those two European countries IIRC one was San Marino that were technically at war with each other for a couple of hundred years and was only recently fixed.Rome and Carthage only declared peace sometime in the 1980s, with the mayor of Tunis representing Carthage.

Rome and Carthage only declared peace sometime in the 1980s, with the mayor of Tunis representing Carthage.

Really? Cool, though considering that both Carthage and Rome had disappeared it doesn't mean as much. When I say disappear I mean that Rome was no longer the same entity as it was a couple of thousand years ago.

So essentially they were always at war with each other? But I thought the Romans took all of North Africa, certainly after WWII when the Axis was pushed out of North Africa and Tunisia surely that would have meant the end?

So, what you're saying is, we're completely fucked and might as well prepare for the nukes or something?

This is silly talk. Apocalyptic predictions NEVER pan out. Even in the 1929 crash, the market rebounded to a healthy level by 1936.

On a more serious note, I was actually planning on beginning some serious investments once I started getting money again here in a few months or so.

What should I plan on doing now? Hold off from investing altogether?
Dollar cost average some money into a sector fund. Research and figure out what sector should do better than the market.

This is silly talk. Apocalyptic predictions NEVER pan out. Even in the 1929 crash, the market rebounded to a healthy level by 1936.

Depends on who makes them. The ones I say sarcastically always pan out. My friends consider me a living detector of doom. I do feel a little guilty for New Orleans, but people honestly shouldn't have built a city in swampland that's also a floodplain anyway.

This is silly talk. Apocalyptic predictions NEVER pan out. Even in the 1929 crash, the market rebounded to a healthy level by 1936.
Hear, hear.

Most of us will have to tighten our belts, and at some point it may get pretty grim for certain people, but this talk of the end of the world is media-fed hysteria.

As Armando Iannucci says, we're in the midst of the worst credit crunch since the term was invented two months ago.

On a more serious note, I was actually planning on beginning some serious investments once I started getting money again here in a few months or so.
It's probably not the best time... Big time bear market, in the medium term.

What should I plan on doing now? Hold off from investing altogether?
Well, you can catch undervalued stocks right now and profit when they jump up again. That takes some research, and a diverse portfolio to cover the losses (they will be), so I'd not even bother with anything less than 20k total portfolio (if you only plan to invest?), better 50k or more.
Normally the stock market is different from a casino in that the average is positive, i.e. ultimately you win more than you bet. Not right now, it's falling, so it's in the same league as casino, unless you play better than others, you lose.

I think a simple fixed deposit in Euros or bonds might be overall better, if you don't want to play actively. At least it's a safe bet, unlike with stocks where losing is more likely now - they might well be worse than cash these days. Bonds might work out well, though.

Personally, I've pulled out of most long-term investment recently, keeping only the more reliable ones. Mostly defense industry, I feel like it won't suffer as much (fixed contracts for years ahead), plus I've got a bit of insider thing, so it takes less time to research. Shifted the rest to bonds so far.
But still, the crisis will hit everyone, I'm personally rather looking to spend the disposable income now and the next couple years, at least put it to good use and not lose in inflation.

Note that I'm an 'amateur' in this and it's just my thoughts.

Calm yourself. You'll end up having an anurism. I plan to BE that next dictator.
I, for one, welcome our new Imperial Naval overlords...

I, for one, welcome our new Imperial Naval overlords...

Good. You will have a good position in the new order. :)

This is silly talk. Apocalyptic predictions NEVER pan out. Even in the 1929 crash, the market rebounded to a healthy level by 1936.

Yes, but you have to multiply that level by .57 to get a pre-32 basis.

The market bottomed in 41 or thereabouts. 1929-45 stocks were losers.

Equities are just far too volatile for ordinary investors.

If I remember my history correctly, Congress has technically been under martial law for nearly 200 years now. Lincoln used it to force Congress back into session and, assuming my memory is not failing me, it was never actually revoked.Do you know that Ohio wasn't admitted to the Union until 1953?
Back in 1803, Ohio organized a state government (the Articles of Confederation regime had said that they should, once a census confirmed a sufficient population, in the Northwest Territory Ordinance of 1787) and elected Congressmen, and the Congress let them in without raising any fuss about it. For every other state beyond the original 13, there was an Act of Admission, but not for Ohio...
until the 150th anniversary came around, and a third-grade student wrote to ask what date, exactly, was the anniversary. A records search showed the problem; a retroactive Act of Admission was passed, using the date when Congressional leaders threw a welcoming party for the newly-arrived Ohioans as the "official" date.