NationStates Jolt Archive

Looks like our president is planning, with russian help, to develop a substantial nuclear reactor inside our territory, for pacifical purposes, like generating electricity and "medic" investigations. Putin offered help last week during Chávez visit to Moscow last week, and the latinoamerican leader accepted the proposal yesterday. Additional information is scarce for the moment. So far, Spain declared it will relatively support the initiative. I haven't heard of a Washington's retort yet.

LINK:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080928/wl_nm/us_venezuela_nuclear_1

Although I'm not exactly thrilled, I can't see why we need a nuclear reactor. Our power failures, while common, are not a consequence of a lack of generating capabilities, which are quite ample due to a vast hidrologic complex and excess of oil and other energy plants, but out of a bad maintained and small distribution system. Of course, it can be the ol' "poke the Yankee" strategy, the "Ahmadineyad I luv ya" tactic, the "I want new toy" posture, the "Xmass gift from Putin oh yeah" fad, or a sum of the above.

(By the way, we ALREADY have a nuclear reactor. For scientific purposes. Just a little facility in a research compound, built decades before Chávez rose to power)

Any thoughts?

*rubs temples, medium style*
I smell... nay, I can also see... a future Yank panic attack. I can smell it! Ahummmmmmmm...

*rubs temples, medium style*
I smell... nay, I can also see... a future Yank panic attack. I can smell it! Ahummmmmmmm...

"ZOMG! Venezuela's making teh WMD's! Bomb them! Shock and Awe them back to the Stone Age! U-S-A! U-S-A!"


Something like that?

I don't think they'll get invaded any time soon, largely because I doubt George Bush can spell Venezuela, or if he even knows where it is.

I don't think they'll get invaded any time soon, largely because I doubt George Bush can spell Venezuela, or if he even knows where it is.

Hehehehehehehehe!! True. But that´s why the panic would be hilarious! He might end up attacking Nicaragua, mistaking it for Venezuela.

Venezuela is making WMD's, eh? *invades*

"ZOMG! Venezuela's making teh WMD's! Bomb them! Shock and Awe them back to the Stone Age! U-S-A! U-S-A!"


Something like that?

Yes, but do it á lá George W.:tongue:

Although I'm not exactly thrilled, I can't see why we need a nuclear reactor. Well, it might have advantages for making medical isotopes so you don't need to depend on other countries to get them.

Hehehehehehehehe!! True. But that´s why the panic would be hilarious! He might end up attacking Nicaragua, mistaking it for Venezuela.

Well, they's both Hispanglies or waddever ya calls em now.

Although I'm not exactly thrilled, I can't see why we need a nuclear reactor. Our power failures, while common, are not a consequence of a lack of generating capabilities

I'm not really a fan of nuclear power anyway, but if you build one reactor, you need to build a backup reactor for safety reasons. You said Venezuela already has one from several decades ago - does it just have the one or does it have more?

Yes, but do it á lá George W.:tongue:

They're evil-doers who hate us for our freedom, and we have evidence that they are trying to obtain yellow cake uranium for use in the making of nucular weapons.

I wonder how far Israeli airstrike capability extends...

They're evil-doers who hate us for our freedom, and we have evidence that they are trying to obtain yellow cake uranium for use in the making of nucular weapons.

Atta boy! You also forgot the beer!

I guess Hugo saw the week was shaping up without his name in the news internationally and had to get some attention. It's kind of sad.

Hehehehehehehehe!! True. But that´s why the panic would be hilarious! He might end up attacking Nicaragua, mistaking it for Venezuela.

Hed probably bomb vermont.

Well, it might have advantages for making medical isotopes so you don't need to depend on other countries to get them.

We already have a scientific, small nuclear reactor for that. I mean, we could always use additional scale, but...Improving the current one instead of building a bigger one doesn't seem to be a bad idea.

I'm not really a fan of nuclear power anyway, but if you build one reactor, you need to build a backup reactor for safety reasons. You said Venezuela already has one from several decades ago - does it just have the one or does it have more?

Neither I am, hence my response to this announcement. There is only a small reactor in Venezuela, located in the IVIC, (Venezuelan Institute of Scientific Investigations). I went to the reactor when I was in college, and met the guy in charge. (A rather "Einstein" type of guy. The pretty stereotypical nuclear scientist in personality, although not in looks. Although he used hawaiian shirts and sported a big afro). There is no backup reactor that I know of.

Hed probably bomb vermont.

Or Texas. Now, that, being where his house is, would be laughable and sad at the same time.

Well, they's both Hispanglies or waddever ya calls em now.

Latinoamericans? We prefer that label.

Or Texas. Now, that, being where his house is, would be laughable and sad at the same time.

Just like Dubya himself.

This sounds like Chavez trying every way he can think of to get up Americas nose. It doesn't matter if the country needs a nuclear reactor, his only motivation appears to be to make himself look hard by standing up to the USA. And Russia are only too happy to assist in any way they think will annoy any Nato members. All I will say is (And this goes for Iran and their nuclear ambitions too). Do not be suprised if you experience a sudden (And completely unattributable) nuclear meltdown. But I guarantee there will be a lot of handshakes and back slapping in the offices of the CIA and FBI. You may find it fun to annoy a large bear, but you cannot then complain when it bites your head off.

Just like Dubya himself.

Indeed. Just like the Dubya himself.

I think the US should do everything in its power to prevent this.


Just to piss off Chavez and watch him throw a temper tantrum.

This sounds like Chavez trying every way he can think of to get up Americas nose. It doesn't matter if the country needs a nuclear reactor, his only motivation appears to be to make himself look hard by standing up to the USA. And Russia are only too happy to assist in any way they think will annoy any Nato members. All I will say is (And this goes for Iran and their nuclear ambitions too). Do not be suprised if you experience a sudden (And completely unattributable) nuclear meltdown. But I guarantee there will be a lot of handshakes and back slapping in the offices of the CIA and FBI. You may find it fun to annoy a large bear, but you cannot then complain when it bites your head off.

Soooo, your country would meddle in Latinoamerican affairs yet again, without being asked to, and being extremely uncaring about collateral damage. I'm not a fan of Chávez myself, yet if the FBI and the CIA provoke said meltdown in said way. I'd say I would, alongside many, many other South Americans who aren't particularly opposed to the US, declare a vendetta against said institutions, and by extension, against the US goverment.

It's funny how half the americans usually deny that their goverment take part in this kind of plans, and the other half are actually proud that their goverment plan and execute this kind of initiatives. Please make up your mind.

It's funny how half the americans usually deny that their goverment take part in this kind of plans, and the other half are actually proud that their goverment plan and execute this kind of initiatives. Please make up your mind.

Wow thats an awfully broad brush. Because I acknowledge these things happen means I support them?

Neither I am, hence my response to this announcement. There is only a small reactor in Venezuela, located in the IVIC, (Venezuelan Institute of Scientific Investigations). I went to the reactor when I was in college, and met the guy in charge. (A rather "Einstein" type of guy. The pretty stereotypical nuclear scientist in personality, although not in looks. Although he used hawaiian shirts and sported a big afro). There is no backup reactor that I know of.

Hmmmm. I'm fishing when I say this, but maybe it's a more medium term thing - after the price of oil returns to normal or for the longer term when oil becomes better served as a commodity abroad than using it for power at home - then again maybe it's just purely politics with Russia. *shrug*

Maybe it won't get that far, isn't he losing power with the provincial governors these days?

Let's divide them to thirds then? A third denies them, another third is proud of them, and another third recognizes them but doesn't support them?

Sorry for generalizing. Of course, even that fixed part is just a personal broad calculation based on the average of this forums, I don't think I can ask the entire american population about this.

Let's divide them to thirds then? A third denies them, another third is proud of them, and another third recognizes them but doesn't support them?

Sorry for generalizing. Of course, even that fixed part is just a personal broad calculation based on the average of this forums, I don't think I can ask the entire american population about this.

Fair enough.


I still think itd be funny to frusterate Chavez on this. Not in any harmful way (like causing a metaldown) but just in little ways. Get him angry, get him to make a scene, watch hilarity ensue.

Maybe it won't get that far, isn't he losing power with the provincial governors these days?

We see in november, when we hold regional elections. Right now, nothing is for sure for either side. Although I see some of the regional leaders of Chávez's party as weak, I think the same about most of the opposers. Even in the capital city, for example, both sides are proposing ex mayors that are equally loathed by the population for the bad job they did when they were in office, more than 10 years ago.

I still think itd be funny to frusterate Chavez on this. Not in any harmful way (like causing a metaldown) but just in little ways. Get him angry, get him to make a scene, watch hilarity ensue.

I can fairly agree on that.

Soooo, your country would meddle in Latinoamerican affairs yet again, without being asked to, and being extremely uncaring about collateral damage. I'm not a fan of Chávez myself, yet if the FBI and the CIA provoke said meltdown in said way. I'd say I would, alongside many, many other South Americans who aren't particularly opposed to the US, declare a vendetta against said institutions, and by extension, against the US goverment.

It's funny how half the americans usually deny that their goverment take part in this kind of plans, and the other half are actually proud that their goverment plan and execute this kind of initiatives. Please make up your mind.

Perhaps I should correct you. I am British, not American. All I am trying to say is that the theory of standing up to the classroom bully does not work. If Chavez continues to try to provoke the USA, he cannot complain if they turn round and swat him like the fly he is. He tries to hide the disaster that is his own country, by blaming the USA (A bit like Mugabe in Zimbabwe blaming us for everything). He knows that given the US opposition to Iran getting nuclear technology, they would baulk at the idea of Venezuela getting that same technology. He thinks that by getting in the US's face, he makes himself look big on the international stage. That is a very dangerous game to be playing.

Perhaps I should correct you. I am British, not American. All I am trying to say is that the theory of standing up to the classroom bully does not work. If Chavez continues to try to provoke the USA, he cannot complain if they turn round and swat him like the fly he is. He tries to hide the disaster that is his own country, by blaming the USA (A bit like Mugabe in Zimbabwe blaming us for everything). He knows that given the US opposition to Iran getting nuclear technology, they would baulk at the idea of Venezuela getting that same technology. He thinks that by getting in the US's face, he makes himself look big on the international stage. That is a very dangerous game to be playing.

I think that if Chávez is doing this precisely to provoke the US, the best course of action for Washington is to say something along the lines of "We're happy to see Venezuela is walking the path of progress", insist that as long Caracas fulfills international standards the project is a wonderful initiative, and look the less pissed off possible. If someone is taunting you, as soon as you answer you are playing their game. Ignoring him or even encouraging him is better.

I think that if Chávez is doing this precisely to provoke the US, the best course of action for Washington is to say something along the lines of "We're happy to see Venezuela is walking the path of progress", insist that as long Caracas fulfills international standards the project is a wonderful initiative, and look the less pissed off possible. If someone is taunting you, as soon as you answer you are playing their game. Ignoring him or even encouraging him is better.

This is actually an excellent idea.


In fact, itd be funny if we offered to help him. I think he throw a fit because we werent pissed and somehow spin it as we ar trying to get him by helping him.

Itd be awesome.

Hugo chavez is such an attention seeker, he's been talking rubbish for ages now but when he didn't get enough attention he decided to do the one sure thing to get attention - try and build nuclear reactors.

Such a cliché though :p

I think that if Chávez is doing this precisely to provoke the US, the best course of action for Washington is to say something along the lines of "We're happy to see Venezuela is walking the path of progress", insist that as long Caracas fulfills international standards the project is a wonderful initiative, and look the less pissed off possible. If someone is taunting you, as soon as you answer you are playing their game. Ignoring him or even encouraging him is better.

I very much doubt that they would want to allow somebody like Chavez to aquire any sort of nuclear material. He is known to support terrorists. I would not put it past him to supply nuclear material to enemies of the rest of the free world, just for the sake of giving America a bloody nose. He has shown many times in the past, that his desire to antagonise overrides everything else. Even common sense. You would never allow a homicidal maniac to wield a gun, even if it was under controled conditions.

nuke em'

Considering the US treatment of Iraq and North Korea, it may be prudent for a developing oil-rich nation to have WMDs, just in case they get accused of having them.

Gift of God, by the way, nailed something there.

Of course, I do not want under any circumstance, that my country holds any kind of WMD's

the difference between Iran and Venezuela is Venezuela is what we would view as a direct threat. expect somewhere between a Iraq and Cuban response.

the difference between Iran and Venezuela is Venezuela is what we would view as a direct threat. expect somewhere between a Iraq and Cuban response.

Venezuela is even less of a threat to the USA than Iraq was. Though I do believe you are correct that a surprisingly high percentage of the US population actually believes that Venezuela is a threat. This may allow the US government to successfully rationalise an intervention in Venezuela under the guise of 'protecting America' or 'liberating' Venezuelans. The War on Terror has apparently replaced the Cold War as the favoured excuse for the US government's disregard of another nation's sovereignty.

I also believe that you are ironically correct in terms of a response. The Venzuelans would react to such an intervention with something between the Iraqi response (USA GTFO) and the Cuban response (USA GTFO).

I also believe that you are ironically correct in terms of a response. The Venzuelans would react to such an intervention with something between the Iraqi response (USA GTFO) and the Cuban response (USA GTFO).

Indeed. I would even dare to say that a large percentage of the venezuelans opposed to the current goverment would side with said goverment in the response you highlighted.

(Yes, we hate freedom. Specially imposed freedom)

Shit, and I thought our government was bad when it came to blowing billions of dollars...

Looks like our president is planning, with russian help, to develop a substantial nuclear reactor inside our territory, for pacifical purposes, like generating electricity and "medic" investigations. Putin offered help last week during Chávez visit to Moscow last week, and the latinoamerican leader accepted the proposal yesterday. Additional information is scarce for the moment. So far, Spain declared it will relatively support the initiative. I haven't heard of a Washington's retort yet.

LINK:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080928/wl_nm/us_venezuela_nuclear_1

Although I'm not exactly thrilled, I can't see why we need a nuclear reactor. Our power failures, while common, are not a consequence of a lack of generating capabilities, which are quite ample due to a vast hidrologic complex and excess of oil and other energy plants, but out of a bad maintained and small distribution system. Of course, it can be the ol' "poke the Yankee" strategy, the "Ahmadineyad I luv ya" tactic, the "I want new toy" posture, the "Xmass gift from Putin oh yeah" fad, or a sum of the above.

(By the way, we ALREADY have a nuclear reactor. For scientific purposes. Just a little facility in a research compound, built decades before Chávez rose to power)

Any thoughts?
*shrug*

Beware of accepting expensive gifts -- they often come with expectations attached?

Is there a lot of fuel for these reactors to be mined in Venezuela, or is that going to have to be imported?

I don't think they'll get invaded any time soon, largely because I doubt George Bush can spell Venezuela, or if he even knows where it is.
Comments about his intelligence aside, hello, he's a lame duck and outta here by January 20th.

*shrug*

Beware of accepting expensive gifts -- they often come with expectations attached?

Is there a lot of fuel for these reactors to be mined in Venezuela, or is that going to have to be imported?

There are large uranium deposits in the southern regions of Venezuela that are still unexploited (spelling?). Last time I checked, they haven't been touched for lack of buyers interested in building the infrastructure. I suppose the goverment will start to mine it after their "venture" start.

But that means several things. Even if you have the deposits, raw uranium isn't reactor fuel, I am well aware of the needed industrial processes to turn mined uranium into useful uranium. So a rather large invesment to build that infrastructure is in order. I guess the russian offer goes that way, perhaps they want to start a uranium mining operation in Venezuela to keep some of the raw material for themselves, offering some "refining" or proceessing facilities in exchange.

Even then, the goverment would need to import a lot of fuel before the mining operations start to function in the scale needed to feed the reactors.

If it means they can stop using oil for power production purposes and sell more of the black gold to other countries, I don't see why they wouldn't want nuclear power or why we shouldn't support them in doing it. Then, I said the same thing about Iran too, and nobody listened to me then either.

If it means they can stop using oil for power production purposes and sell more of the black gold to other countries, I don't see why they wouldn't want nuclear power or why we shouldn't support them in doing it. Then, I said the same thing about Iran too, and nobody listened to me then either.

That depends. Venezuelan energy production is mainly dependant of hidroelectrical complexes. Those are pretty large and even manage to suminister eletricity to several north brazilian states and eatern colombian states. Most of the plants who aren't hidroelectric depend on natural gas, that is also a stable of our industry and usually goes unused. Although we still control some oil production plants, even those function not with proper oil, but with low quality derivatives of oil that can't be used for other purposes than being burn in thermoeletrical facilities, and are too cheap to be sold to other countries because even the shipping expenses are higher than the profits.

While nuclear power could help in some areas, I can't really see the need to invest heavily in a unexistant industry here when we can expand our natural gas industry, for example, or to update our distribution system that really needs it. To me, this is going to end in a ridiculous and not needed expenditure.

Nuclear energy is one of the things that I personally support :) It's fairly clean, it's efficient, and it's far more sustainable than coal and oil fired power plants. Admittedly, I'd prefer to see Venezuela use a US, Japanese, German or French built reactor, because they are typically cleaner and more efficient than the Russian one's, which are largely derived from the Russian nuclear weapons program, but that's just me. Chernobyl sticks out like a sore thumb on the Russian record.

The Russia pick almost seems more like Hugo trying to poke the US than anything else. We know that Venezuela ain't going to go for a bomb, so why should we worry?

Nuclear energy is one of the things that I personally support :) It's fairly clean, it's efficient, and it's far more sustainable than coal and oil fired power plants. Admittedly, I'd prefer to see Venezuela use a US, Japanese, German or French built reactor, because they are typically cleaner and more efficient than the Russian one's, which are largely derived from the Russian nuclear weapons program, but that's just me. Chernobyl sticks out like a sore thumb on the Russian record.

The Russia pick almost seems more like Hugo trying to poke the US than anything else. We know that Venezuela ain't going to go for a bomb, so why should we worry?
This.

So long as we keep research going on Generation IV reactors, it's all a-ok by me.

We know that Venezuela ain't going to go for a bomb, so why should we worry?
If nothing else, it would take a customer off the market.

If nothing else, it would take a customer off the market.

Exactly. A reactor is an expensive piece of machinery, and a long term investment. It is the sort of thing that could prove to be extremely beneficial to the US (or any of my other preferred vendors, but I prefer the US the most, because, well, I'm an American) and to Venezuela to work together to put in a most modern reactor.

There's a reason that for the modernization of India's nuclear power industry, they looked to the West, not to the North.

Well, if you've actually got the fuel to run it once you've got it up and running... I really can't see any reason why Venezuela shouldn't build another reactor.

Well, if you've actually got the fuel to run it once you've got it up and running... I really can't see any reason why Venezuela shouldn't build another reactor.

Easier to redirect the funds into expanding natural gas thermoelectric plants or hidroelectric complexes.

Chavez was a one hit wonder, desperately trying to cling to his fading fame. If he carries on this way he'll soon be opening county fairs.

Though personally, if I were in charge of the US, I'd offer to build him an even better reactor for free, maybe two. And train the technicians and whatnot. I'd then bang on about wanting co-operation and friendship, because I was especially impressed with the man himself and recognize that he is a valuable ally of the US. I'd also donate tonnes of medicine, making sure that it as known this gift was only possible through Hugo's co-operation with the US, whether he actually co-operates or not.

That would fix him.

I'd prefer it if he was funding research for nuclear thermal rockets...

Exactly. A reactor is an expensive piece of machinery, and a long term investment. It is the sort of thing that could prove to be extremely beneficial to the US (or any of my other preferred vendors, but I prefer the US the most, because, well, I'm an American) and to Venezuela to work together to put in a most modern reactor.

There's a reason that for the modernization of India's nuclear power industry, they looked to the West, not to the North.

To be honest if they want the most modern reactor they should look to western Europe. Most notably France. US reactor development has really stagnated since the 70's.

To be honest if they want the most modern reactor they should look to western Europe. Most notably France. US reactor development has really stagnated since the 70's.

Damn hippies.